This guest chat is divided into two parts. The first deals with the "alleged" animal 
abuse charges against Wyeth-Ayerst regarding the inhumane treatment of the pregnant 
mares from which they extract the urine used in the manufacture of Premarin, the #1 
prescribed estrogen replacement therapy in the US.   It is currently being taken by 
eight million women. 

Please be advised that this is a highly spirited chat. Power Surge has verbalized concern
regarding the alleged animal abuse charges. This chat is not intended as an attack 
upon Wyeth-Ayerst, but as a means of obtaining more information for the many women who use
these drugs.  

The following statement is from PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals:

"Premarin is under attack because of the risk of breast cancer associated with taking it, 
and because of what activists call "the appalling cruelty to mares and the slaughter of 
their foals" involved in its production. 

"Premarin, made by Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories, is the only ERT drug made from animal waste. 
Other drug companies produce ERT drugs from plant sources, which more closely mimic the 
estrogens in the human ovary. In a study released last summer, Dr. Phillip Warner of the 
Menopause Institute of Northern California reported that 66 percent of responding physicians 
have patients who complain of side effects from taking Premarin. 

"Each year, 75,000 mares are impregnated and tied in stalls so small they cannot turn around, 
take even a few steps, or comfortably lie down. Irritating rubber sacks are strapped around 
the mares' groins so their urine (known as PMU, or pregnant mares' urine) can be collected 
to make Premarin. The mares are denied free access to water so their urine will yield a more 
concentrated estrogen. The foals resulting from these pregnancies are considered unwanted 
industry "byproducts"--most are slaughtered." 

At first, Wyeth-Ayerst rejected my offer to appear in Power Surge. However, after much 
pursuasion and explanation that many women who came through Power Surge were Premarin 
users and were concerned about the abuse charges, the Director advised me that although 
they had not previously accepted invitations to refute the charges, they would appear in 
Power Surge. 


Description:  In the first part of the chat, Nadia Cymbaluk, D.V.M, a Veterinarian, 
will field questions about the treatment of the pregnant mares.  

In the second part of the chat, Ronna Jurow, M.D., a gynecologist, will field questions 
about Premarin, menopause and hormone replacement therapy.


Our guests tonight in Power Surge represent WYETH-AYERST Laboratories, one of the
largest pharmaceutical companies in the US, and also manufacturer of PREMARIN -- the
#1 prescribed estrogen replacement therapy in the US. - PREMARIN, with over
eight million American women currently using it.

We've had numerous discussions about the accusations by PETA [People For The Ethical
Treatment Of Animals] -- of alleged abuse of pregnant mares [and their foals] in the 
process of gathering the mares urine for the purpose of manufacturing PREMARIN.
Also, please be advised that it's not merely the more extreme animal rights organizations
that are opposed to the animal abuse charges, but the mainstream organizations as well.

Last Sunday, PETA was represented by  Dr. Jean Rodgers 
in Power Surge to answer our questions about the alleged animal abuse and Premarin as well.

Dearest:      First, I welcome Dr. Nadia Cymbaluk, who will spend the first hour 
fielding our questions about Wyeth and the alleged animal abuse charges. 

A little background: Nadia Cymbaluk, D.V.M., M.S., after 15 years on the faculty of the
University of Saskatchewan and private practice, is the managing veterinarian of Linwood
Equine Ranch near Brandon, Manitoba. Wyeth-Ayerst's operates Linwood as a working pregnant
mares' urine ranch [PMU], where Dr. Cymbaluk supervises studies of animal husbandry and
veterinary care practices employed in pregnant mares' urine ranching. Dr. Cymbaluk also
monitors the company's equine health programs whereby 84 practicing equine veterinarians
conduct reviews of the health and welfare of the horses three times during the six-month
period when the mares are housed indoors.


LynnCSE:	I understand there is a video available about the process of collecting the 
urine.  How does one avail themselves of that video?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:      First I would like to tell you that I am a veterinarian who has worked with 
horses for over 20 years. Wyeth-Ayerst and the PMU ranchers are extremely serious about the 
care of the mares.  Independent welfare and government organizations have confirmed that the 
mares are well cared for. The address is PUBLIC Relations, Wyeth-Ayerst Labs, P.O. Box 8299, 
Philadelphia, PA 19101-8299


LittlJeane:    A government study of a PMU farm showed a 20% foal mortality rate.  How would 
Wyeth-Ayerst go about reducing this rate?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:      The ranches are inspected once a month, to ensure 
the health and welfare of the mares and foals is assured.  At Linwood, we 
had a 0.5% mortality rate.


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:      While we are waiting I could say that the care, 
feeding and health status of the mares and other horses at PMU ranches are 
evaluated monthly by the company inspectors and every 2 months by veterinarians 
during the collection season.


Jean:       What sort of rules does Wyeth-Ayerst enforce on these independent contractors 
who run the farms? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:	The producers are contractually required to follow 
the code of practice that governs the feed, water and health care of the horses.  
This codifies hundreds of years of experience in horse management.


Sherbaker:	Can you describe a premarin mare's day?  How much exercise, the size of 
the stall, and are they constantly pregnant? How long do they live on average? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:	The mares are brought into the barns in October.  
They are fed mostly hay and provided with constant water. They are exercised regularly. 
Mares can live beyond 20 years of age. 


LittlJeane:	Linwood is an experimental farm,  How will Wyeth-Ayerst help PMU farmers 
reach your foal mortality rate of 0.5% when one of your largest and oldest PMYU farms 
achieves only 80%.  That's a huge economic loss for the farmers.


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:	The live birth rate on PMU ranches compares to or is 
better than that on other equine ranches.


Dearest:        	LIttlJeane, was your question answered?


LittlJeane:   Not really -- most of them starved to death even though they were born alive.


Dearest:  The foals?


LittlJeane:   Yes.


Dearest: Nadia, can you address that, please?


LittlJeane:   That is the 20% who died.


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     This study was conducted on one farm, in one year.  
The management has been addressed and foal moralities have decreased to 
typical death losses.


LynnCSE:      Is there a video available about the collection of urine?  If so, is it 
available to the public?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     This question has been answered above.


Dearest:         Well, can we answer it again, please?  Is there a 
video available?


LynnCSE:  No only an address, I want to know if there really is such a video.



Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     Yes, there is a video available.  Write to Wyeth-
Ayerst. Public Relations, P.O. Box 8299, Philadelphia, PA, 19101.


Nita:     Why aren't PMU ranches with high mortality rates shut down or at least penalized 
in some manner? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     We review all the health reports on each farm.  Only 
exceptional cases would exceed the 10% normal mortality rate which 
is seen at other equine ranches.


RoMaGraves:	Would you describe a day in the life of one of the mares while pregnant?  


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:	In the morning, the horses are fed fresh hay.  They 
always have access to water.  The farmer looks closely at each animal.  These are 
family farmers whose children help in the care of the horses.  The horses can stand 
and can lie down easily.


Jean:      Is the code of practice for care of the animals a public document?  Is it 
possible to get a copy  of it, and where could one get it?  


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.: Yes, the COP is public. You can get it from the 
Ministry of Agriculture.  You write to Department of Agriculture in Winnipeg, Manitoba.


MsLizzieB:    Why doesn't Wyeth-Ayerst use tissue culture studies and computer modeling to 
research other forms of estrogens and other sources of substances for HRT?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:  Wyeth-Ayerst does lots of different research. I am 
involved in the studies that improve animal care.


LittlJeane:   In the last five years, how many PMU contracts has Ayerst terminated?  
When?  When did Wyeth-Ayerst start requiring PMU farmers to give mares free-choice watering?  
Wasn't it only after the World Society for the Protection of Animals condemned the previous 
practices?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     I have only been here a year, but I am not aware of 
any that have been terminated.  The chief veterinarian in Manitoba has received 
no reports of abuse at PMU farms.


Katdeesin:    There is a video.  I received it from my doctor when I questioned her about 
this issue. 


Dearest:         Your doctor gave you a video? 


Katdeesin:    Yes, she did.


LynnCSE:      Has Wyeth-Ayerst confronted PETA about their allegations of abuse if they 
have no basis in fact. I would think Peta would be liable.  They have made some pretty 
damaging statements.


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:	It is widely known that the American Association 
of Equine Practitioners and the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association have found the horses 
well cared for.  Also, the Canadian Farm Animal Care Trust has reported that conditions are 
excellent at PMU farms.


Oudastate:    Are the pregnant mares confined to their stalls throughout gestation? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     No, the mares are housed in temperature controlled 
barns and are exercised regularly.



RoMaGraves:   What percentage of the animals involved are on family farms? What size 
are the others?  


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.: The average size barn ranch has 100 mares.  All are 
family owned ranches.



Postrain:     Are all mares currently in the program in Canada?  If not, what 
percentages are? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:    No, most are in Canada; but some are in North Dakota.


Dearest:  Why Canada, Nadia?  Why so few in the states?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     Because Premarin was developed in Canada in the late 
1930's.


Dr Bello:    About what size are the stalls? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     The stalls are designed in proportion to body size 
of the horse.  The horses can stand and lie with ease.


LMossholde:   What happens to the horses produced by the mares?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:  The vast majority of foals are sold to individuals to 
be riding horses, pleasure horses, and show horses.


LittlJeane:	Isn't it Ayerst's responsibility to terminate contracts when farms 
don't meet the code?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.: If they make the changes they keep their contracts. 
They always have made the improvements.


Dearest:   Nadia, you say the vast majority of foals are sold to 
individuals to be riding, pleasure and show horses. How can it be that so many different animal rights 
organizations say: "The foals resulting from these pregnancies are considered unwanted industry 
"byproducts"--most are slaughtered." Why would such a strong statement be made if there were no truth
in it?  


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     No foals are slaughtered.  The only demand in the 
horse meat market is for animals over 900 pound, i.e., adult horses.


LittlJeane:   Who cares about outside reports of abuse? Wyeth-Ayerst is supposed to be 
enforcing its own code.  Also, what do you mean by regular exercise?  Once a year is 
regular!  


Dearest:    Jeane, are you asking if the horses are exercised 
only once a year?  


LittlJeane:   I do not understand what "regular" means.  It is too vague!


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     It is important to understand there are different 
types of horses at different stages of pregnancy.  The farmer and independent 
veterinarian develop the exercise program for each rancher.


Dearest:     Nadia, I don't believe you've addressed my question.  
What's to be gained by PETA, or any of the other mainstream animal rights organizations, saying that 
baby foals born of the pregnant mares used on PMU's for the production of Premarin are slaughtered 
at birth?  


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     Some animal activist groups seem to spread 
misinformation as a way of fund raising for their own benefit.  Foals are never 
slaughtered at birth!


Dearest:         Never? And we're not just talking about "some"
animal activist groups, nor even the most extreme of them, but the mainstream organizations 
concerned about animal's rights. 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:  Absolutely never. What economic benefit would it be 
to slaughter at birth?


RoMaGraves:   Is a 100-horse ranch a small family ranch?  We should be talking about pretty 
intensive care.


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     This is a very manageable group of horses for one 
farm family.


Jean:      Since your farms are in two countries, does the same code of practice apply to the 
United States as well as Canada?  If not, what  regulations apply in the US? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     Yes, the ranchers in the US are governed by the same 
Code of Practice as well as the laws of North Dakota.


Oudastate:    When you say exercised, are they given time outside or walked inside? 
How regularly? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     Let me give you an example.  At Linwood, we turn the 
mares out for 3 to 4 hours every 3-4 day.  We notice in the cold weather (-40C) 
that the mares are keen to come back in to their barn within 10 minutes.


Dearest:  Three to four hours every 3-4 days, Nadia? This is
considered sufficient for living, pregnant mares?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     Yes.  The mares are put into a large paddock that 
allows plenty of running room. Pregnant mares, like pregnant ladies, 
do not like to run aggressively.


Dearest:  I have a dog who would kill me if I only walked him once 
every 3-4 days.


Ram1975106:   What type of exercise are they given?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:  The mares are turned out and they exercise 
themselves just as they would at pasture.


LynnCSE:      How are the foals nursed if the mares are kept consistently pregnant as 
reported by PETA? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     The foals are born when the mares are on pasture in 
the spring.  They nurse their mares until the fall.


Dr Bello:     How often are the mares impregnated?  That is, how much "rest" do they have 
between foals? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     The mares are bred naturally as they would be in the 
wild.  The mare in the wild would be pregnant for 11 months and would be remated 
that summer.


Sadf689628:   Is there a program to improve the ranches?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     Yes.  Wyeth-Ayerst inspects the mares every month, 
independent veterinarians every two months.  Based on experience 
in the horse industry, changes are made.


LMossholde:   How is the urine collected?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     The urine is collected in a loose-fitting, flexible, 
light-weight pouch that allows for a full range of movement including 
lying down.


Postrain:     What role does the USFDA play in the treatment of the horses, if any? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     These are agricultural animals not drugs so the US 
FDA does not apply.


RoMaGraves:   What amount of income would a mare bring in for a year in this program? I 
also would like to mention that wild horses don't live as long as their tame counterparts 
due partly to feed and partly due to being constantly pregnant.


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     A farm with a 100 mares could probably make $100,000 
gross.


Dearest:         Nadia, are the mares ever purposely made pregnant 
again and again in order to have their urine available for the 
production of Premarin? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     No. They breed naturally. The mares must accept the 
stallion for successful mating.


CNelson875:   How have you independently verified the treatment of the horses?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     The PMU ranches will be evaluated by the American 
Association of Equine Practitioners, Canadian Veterinary Medical Association and 
the International League for the Protection of horses in this coming collection season.


LittlJeane:   I'm still looking to an answer about whether Ayerst intends to make the exercise 
program at Linwood mandatory for all PMU farms and when? 


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:     The exercise program at Linwood is for our horses. 
Other farms have to develop their own programs in consultation with their independent 
veterinarians.  Furthermore, we will study exercise programs this fall to identify 
factors of importance.


LMossholde:   How many PMU farms have you visited?


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:  I haven't counted, but I have been on hundreds.


End of Part One of Wyeth-Ayerst Conference





Part Two of Power Surge Chat With Wyest-Ayerst


Dearest: During the second part of the chat, Wyeth will be represented by
gynecologist, Dr. Ronna Jurow, who will answer any questions we may have about 
Premarin, PremPro and PremPhase.

Ronna Jurow, M.D., is a gynecologist. "My interest in this subject, i.e., Premarin vs. 
the Animal Activists stems from the fact that I have studied this issue and I feel that 
women should have access to all viable options for hormone replacement therapy." 
Dr. Jurow is a gynecologist in private practice in Ventura, CA. Her specialty is helping 
women through the reproductive transitions in their lives. 


Dearest:   Dr. Jurow, welcome to Power Surge.  Tell me, are 
Premarin, PremPro and PremPhase all made the same way?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     First, I would like to clarify that I do not work 
for Wyeth-Ayerst.  I am a gynecologist in private practice, with a special interest in 
menopause.  As a woman, I am against any effort to take away our most widely used, 
best studied estrogen preparation, Premarin, which has been in use for over 54 years.  
I am not sure regarding manufacture of the above products, but they all contain Premarin.


D Wintrode:   I can not understand how the fourteen estrogens found in horse-based urine 
premarin can be of any good for women; if not downright harmful. 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     This product has 54 years of extensive use, and has 
been studied extensively.  Premarin can help prevent heart disease that is the leading 
cause of death among women; and it may prevent Alzheimer's disease in older women. We 
all know already about osteoporosis!


Dearest: Yes, but it is a known fact that the studies that have been
done have, for the most part, been funded by Wyeth-Ayerst and while the claims are that it 
helps prevent heart disease, what about all the women our age who are on HRT and at 
risk for cancer?  


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     There is no contraindication for the use of Premarin 
with cancer except for breast cancer and endometrial cancer.


Dearest:  Well, that's cancer to me. Do you mean you can safely say that 
by taking HRT there is no risk for cancer? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.: The overall health benefit of HRT, for most patients, 
far outweighs the risk.


Dearest: That is skirting the issue. It is a scientifically proven fact
that the use of HRT increases a woman's risk for breast and endometrial cancer. 


RoMaGraves:   Do you ever recommend Mexican Yam Cream or other 'natural' preparations?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:  Some of my patients use such preparations.  I would 
rather have them use it in conjunction with FDA approved HRT.


Dearest:   How many women are on the FDA team that approves 
these drugs? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I don't know.


Dearest:   I see.


Remcee:       Is there any advantage for an older woman to take Premarin if 
she hasn't before.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     For the vast majority of women, yes.  In addition to 
the benefits I listed above, my older patients feel better.


Dr Bello:   Is the Premarin cream more effective than the Estrace, in your opinion? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Some women seem to do better with one preparation, some 
with the other.


LittlJeane:   Just because a drug is 54 years old does not make it the best. We don't take 
arsenic for B-12 deficiency or chew on foxglove anymore, so why should we continue to take 
an impure estrogen product when other FDA-approved products are available?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     They have tried for over 54 years to find things 
wrong with Premarin, and yet in every study, Premarin prevails.


LynnCSE:      Do you agree/believe that it takes at least .625 mg. to control hot flashes?  
Does a smaller dose ever work?  Let's hear it for more comfortable sex with a Premem ring.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     The dose depends on the individual patient.  A 
smaller dose may work, or a larger dose may be required.


SFrost2:      I'm 28 and had a surgical menopause approximately two weeks ago.  I'm on .625 mg. Premarin.  
Is this dose high or low?  What about testosterone?  How long before I even out?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Every patient is different and you will have to see 
your own doctor.


Oudastate:  Is the Alzheimer's disease research new?  I had not heard that.  Could you 
elaborate?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Yes, it is fairly new.  It has been coming to light 
only over the last two or three years.


Dearest:         Before we go ahead, Dr. Jurow, what has been learned 
about Alzheimer's? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Preliminary evidence seems to indicate a decrease in 
frequency of Alzheimer's disease in patients taking Premarin.


Dearest:         What age are the patients?  


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I don't have all the details at my fingertips, but 
as best I recall the patients were at an age where Alzheimer's might be typically 
diagnosed.


Dearest:         Would these have been patients who were likely to 
have developed Alzheimer's?  Were they patients with familial situations making them 
likely to get Alzheimer's? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I don't have all the details of the study, but it 
appeared to me it was a cross-section.  The most recent study appeared in Lancet, 
July or August 1996.


Dearest:         Makes no sense to me.  A cross-section of people who 
probably weren't likely to get Alzheimer's in the first place.  
What difference would it make?


Postrain:     What is the average age of death in women from heart disease versus 
estrogen-related cancers? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     There is a publication by Henderson (1980), I don't 
recall the journal, but it  gives the overall estimate of lives saved through 
use of estrogen.


Postrain:     1980 was a millennium ago in terms of medical technology.  Blanket statements 
must be based on current research.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     In my practice, I tell women that heart disease is 
a much greater risk for them than would be a cancer caused by estrogen.


Dearest:         Well, I hate to say it, but my mother, grandmother 
and great grandmother managed to get through menopause without heart disease without
HRT.


Katdeesin:    Isn't it true that there are components in Premarin that don't exist in 
the other estrogens that lower cholesterol and may even be breast cancer protective?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Dearest, congratulation on your family history.  Yes, 
Premarin is a complex blend of estrogen components.


Dearest:         Dr. Jurow, there is no point in scaring the death 
out of women who aren't likely to develop heart disease just because they are going 
through menopause.


Ram1975106:   Why haven't other products mentioned by others here been tested as much as Premarin?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Probably because they have not been available as 
long.  Remember, I don't work for Wyeth-Ayerst.


Dearest:         Dr. Jurow, we understand you don't work for Wyeth, 
but many women are concerned with the various public published risks involved with the
use of hormone replacement therapy. Why do you make it sound so safe? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Because I believe that it is safe.  Numerous studies 
show that there is far greater benefit than risk; and in my personal experience of 
close to 20 years, I have seen it to be safe.  You must remember the benefits as far 
as osteoporosis, and don't forget your sexual functions!


Dearest:         Large doses of calcium can probably effect similar 
results and with all the "positive" effects of HRT.  There are more cases of cancer today 
than ever before since all the first wave baby boomers have entered menopause. 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Large doses of calcium can emphatically NOT prevent
osteoporosis.


RoMaGraves:   May I ask, how old you are?  What do you plan to use or are you using?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     How old am I?  My husband doesn't even know my age.  
I have taken estrogen and will continue to use it.  I stopped to have my children.


SFrost2:      What is your feeling about Premarin and testosterone combinations?  
Good or bad?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I do prescribe testosterone in my practice, but I 
tend to not use fixed combinations, as each patient needs individual treatment.


Jean:      Since researchers are seeing interesting results with Premarin and its 
effects on Alzheimer's, when will we see research of Premarin on males?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I don't expect to see research in Premarin on males.


LittlJeane:	How can Dr. Jurow see a difference in estrogen replacement therapies 
when the FDA has approved several others for the same indications as Premarin?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I see it in my clinical practice every day.  Some 
patients do better on one, some do better on another.


Dr Bello:     Has there been a comparison in cancer risks between Premarin and Estrace 
or similar HRTs?  Results? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     No.


Katdeesin:    Why do other companies not do the research on their products?  Estrace has been 
around almost 30 years.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     You would have to ask those other companies.  
Remember, research takes a considerable amount of money, perhaps not all companies are 
willing to fund it.


Ollydaze:     Is cancer risk dose related?  Can you titrate down the dose to the lowest cardiac 
protective amount?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     The medical community, including myself, is searching 
for the safest dose.


Postrain:     If you do not work for Wyeth-Ayerst, what is your Connection with them? 
Why do you only know of and use Premarin?



Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I prescribe many different ERT's, not just Premarin.  
This discussion came about because Premarin is under attack and I don't like it.  
It is against all women.


SingingDSR:   I am 38 and I have been in menopause since I was 30. I am now on Climara patch 
plus provera.  What do you think of that versus pills?  


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I cannot treat on-line.  I am glad you are taking 
HRT.  The patch should be available as an option.


Dearest:         Dr. Jurow, don't you have an opinion on the patch as 
opposed to the pill?  That's not is not really prescribing on-line, it is just 
an opinion.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Dearest, in general I feel that because estrogen 
absorbed from the patch does not pass through the liver, you don't get all the 
benefits, such as the lipid lowering effect, which the oral agents provide.


Dearest:   Thank you, Dr. Jurow.  That's more than we knew before. 


RRosenblut:   Does chaste tree berry have estrogen?  Is it good for hot flashes?  
How are herbal estrogens different from hormone replacement therapy? I am afraid 
to take estrogen because of breast cancer. 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     To my knowledge it is not harmful, I would advise my
patients to at least use it in conjunction with an FDA approved HRT.


RoMaGraves:   Your opinion of DHEA?  In reports I have read, it seems to have the same good 
effects as HRT.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     DHEA has nowhere near the scientific investigation; 
therefore the jury is still out.


JSart24973:   What is Progest cream and estradiol?



Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Progesterone cream is a cream containing progesterone.
Estradiol is an estrogen.


Dearest: A natural estrogen, not one from the urine of horses.


Postrain:     You did not answer my initial question:  What is your relationship 
with Wyeth? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I don't have a relationship with Wyeth.  I am in 
private practice.  I am here to help women, and try to educate re the 
benefits of HRT.


Dearest:  Why did Wyeth send you as their representative?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I contacted Wyeth, because of my concern about the 
attacks on Premarin.



Katdeesin:    If Premarin has been around for 50 years, its patent should have been 
up years ago. So why aren't there any generic Premarins?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I don't know.  I would assume because no other 
company has been able to duplicate it.


RoMaGraves:   How long do you recommend that women remain on HRT?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     For most women, I recommend it for the rest of their 
lives.


Dearest:         Some of Power Surge's medical consultants have said 
that Premarin has 13 additional chemicals in it that none of the other prescribed 
hormones have.  Why is that?  What are they and why is it necessary for only 
Premarin to have them when none others do? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     You would have to contact Wyeth-Ayerst for details.  
My main knowledge is of the clinical benefits.


Dearest:         I was under the impression you were an expert on 
Premarin, no?


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I have a special interest in menopause and HRT.


Dearest:         I don't understand.  You say on one hand that 
Premarin can't harm us, that the benefits outweigh the risks, yet you don't know what the ingredients 
are in this drug that you say is more beneficial to us than harmful?   Is this how middle-aged 
women are being sabotaged today?  I don't mean to sound rude, but if we don't ask questions about 
this mindset of doctors today, we'll never become enlightened.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Premarin is a known product.  It has been widely 
studied and FDA approved.


Dearest:         I see, and have you 100% faith in the FDA?  They've 
"approved" of many drugs which proved to be dangerous - case in point, DES, et al.



Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I have a great deal of faith in the FDA.  America 
has the safest and most effective medication supply in the world. The FDA is a very 
conservative agency.


Dearest:   I'm afraid that drugs are approved daily which may potentially
be dangerous.  There are also drugs recalled reguarly. All we have to do is look at 
drugs like Phen Phen and Redux. 


Postrain:     You suggest using chaste berry/vitex with HRT.  Research has shown it to 
adversely effect the uptake of estrogen.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     Dearest, you are entitled to your beliefs.


Dearest:         As are you, Dr. Jurow.


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:     I recommend to my patients that they use FDA-
Approved preparations.


Dearest:         The FDA won't approve many herbs and natural 
Remedies because there aren't gazillions of dollars to be earned from them.


Katdeesin:    I understand that the hip is of concern with osteoporosis.  In researching 
several estrogen studies, I can only find hip data with Premarin.  Does this mean the 
others don't protect the hip? 


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:	As I have said many times, one advantage of Premarin 
is that there is more data on it.  


Dearest:    Dr. Cymbaluk and Dr. Jurow, thank you much for representing 
WYETH- AYERST and answering our many questions about Premarin and the charges of alleged 
animal abuse. These are important issues for women everywhere, and we all thank you for 
doing such a great service by appearing in Power Surge tonight.  Thank you!


Ronna Jurow, M.D.:	I enjoyed it very much and I hope is has been of 
some benefit.


Nadia Cymbluk, D.V.M.:      Thanks for having our viewpoint. 


Dearest:      Thank you and goodnight, everyone.



Read the transcript of Dr. Jean Rodgers of PETA



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Dearest
aka Alice Stamm
Power Surge
Founder, Facilitator, Host


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