Dearest:      My guest tonight has 27 years experience as a psychotherapist. She is a member of 
the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, a clinical hypnotherapist, and 
board certified diplomate in clinical social work, psychotherapy and behavioral medicine. 
She is a frequent radio and television guest and has hosted a program: Should I Stay or Go?: 
Straight Talk About Troubled Relationships. 

My guest tonight, LEE RAFFEL, MSW, will be appearing on the TODAY SHOW next month.  She has 
been featured in newspapers and continues her private practice in Wisconsin. As founder of 
Fresh Perspectives Training Institute, she also presents personal and professional 
development programs for organizations.

In her book, "Should I Stay or Go? How Controlled Separation (CS) Can Save Your Marriage", my 
guest offers hope to those whose relationships are in crisis. She does so by introducing an 
innovative approach called "Controlled Separation" or CS and provides guidelines on how to 
create your own CS contract. 

Lee, welcome to Power Surge. Tell us, please, what, exactly, is Controlled Separation or CS? 
Thanks.  


Lee Raffel:   Hi all, controlled separation (CS) is a time-limited separation with 12 guidelines 
the couple make a contract and agree as to who moves out when, where Issues such as 
children, the couple's continuing relationship, money are discussed and decided in a fair 
and orderly manner. Saves sanity and restores order to a chaotic relationship on the brink 
of falling apart there are many aspects to CS that are beneficial to the couple.  


Dearest:      Lee, do you mean that during this controlled separation a couple is better able 
to deal with their relationship issues and probably save their marriage? 


Lee Raffel:   I generally ask the couple not to discuss their relationship at the time they 
are doing their contract.  Saves a lot of wear and tear that way.  


Dearest:      But I would imagine getting that foot out the door might sooner lead to divorce 
than to reconstructing the marriage. The leaving takes a great deal of courage. Your 
thoughts? 


Lee Raffel:   Yes, it takes a lot of courage to leave, but many partners are stuck but still 
want to save and improve their marriage. CS can and does help.  


Dearest:      What type of guidelines are involved in the CS Contract? 


Lee Raffel:   Most importantly couple agree not to file for divorce for life of  contract 3-
6 months.  This gives people time to slow down and cool down and not be impulsive about 
their ultimate decision to stay or go. 


Dearest:      Does the contract include ways in which to improve the marriage, or does it 
resemble a legal separation agreement without the lawyers? 


Lee Raffel:   CS does not resemble a legal separation because it is a temporary arrangement 
that includes many issues not covered in legal separation.  For ex,. confidentiality often 
gossip and mud slinging will get the couple in more trouble such matters are discussed in 
detail and couple agree to be considerate of one another's feeling.  Couple decide when and 
where they will see one another Issues of couple dating are defined.  Also dating other. CS 
is highly detailed. 


Dearest:      Thank you, Lee. Very interesting, indeed. Let's go to the queue. Mbiddel, your 
question for our guest? 


Mbiddel:   Why do you think there are so many sexual problems among meno and post meno 
couples?


Lee Raffel:   I think that couples married 10 - 20 years or more find their relationship 
getting stagnant.  Intimacy is difficult to sustain.  One or both partners may be prone to 
avoid conflict, avoid being close and then problems escalate.  And when it gets too hot in 
the kitchen, it gets mighty frigid in the bedroom.  


Dearest:      What if people have grown apart? What if they have little in common as they've 
changed over a long-term marriage or relationship? What's the point to keeping it together?     


Lee Raffel:   No point if one or both have fallen out of love and there isn't a prayer of 
restoring the love energy but I have seen so many couples change their minds even the day 
before the divorce.  Often there is no explaining the nature of attachment.  


Dearest:      Thank you, Lee :)  Jimjon, go ahead, please. 


Jimjon4890:   My husband charges porn and gets massages and lies about them what should I do?   


Lee Raffel:   Jinjon 4890  Confront him and tell him you know he is lying and you don't 
appreciate his not being honest.  Set Your Limits.  



PianoMary:   In the terms of this contract, do you  allow for a mediator to insure that both 
parties keep up with their part of the bargain or is it more "honor system"?  


Lee Raffel:   Piano Mary...If the couple gets stuck in making a contract, I suggest a 
therapist or coach who is skilled in couple counsel.  


PianoMary:   Thanks 


Dearest:      What's the first response that comes to mind when you hear people say, 'We're 
staying together for the children?"  


Lee Raffel:   Sometimes it works and sometimes not  -- relationships are so unpredictable. 


Dearest:      Let's see some question marks for psychotherapist and couples counselor, LEE 
RAFFEL :) Donadeo, go ahead, please.


Donadeo48:   I feel I am not a women anymore, my husband does not understand anything about 
this. Have you ever heard of Ogen?


Dearest:      You are not a woman anymore because your husband doesn't understand anything 
about what?  And please bear in mind that LEE RAFFEL is a psychotherapist, not a medical 
doctor. We're not here tonight to talk about hormone therapy :)


Lee Raffel:   Donadeo...I  have not heard of Ogen.  What is it?  


Donadeo48:   Menopause, but I myself feel everything is over.


Dearest:      Everything is not over, Dona. Ogen is a form of hormone replacement therapy.  
Lee, I think you need to address the relationship issues and emotional impact menopause is 
having on Dona.


Donadeo48:   I gained 15 lbs.  Is it from menopause or the Ogen?


Dearest:      The majority of women who go through menopause gain weight, hormones or not. The 
weight will come off once your hormones level out.


Lee Raffel:   Donadeo48...I take natural estrogen: Estriol.  You need an MD prescription.   
Sounds like you are depressed.  Are you getting some therapeutic help?  


Donadeo48:   Thanks.  Yes, for 7yrs.  I am on Zoloft.


Dearest:      But let's talk about your relationship issues and your feelings of not being a 
woman any longer. Lee?


Lee Raffel:   Donadeo48...Don't ever lose faith.  Sometimes our down periods last a very 
long time  but then someone touches you and you start an upward swing.  Pray a lot it helps.  
and ask others to pray for you too.  I will.  


CAROLYNLOVELIFE:   What if you want to change things in the marriage and he likes everything 
status quo? 


Lee Raffel:   Carolynlovellife...When you can't change him start changing yourself.  He 
might not like the new you or approve, but the important thing is that you like yourself,  
make a positive new you. 


CAROLYNLOVELIFE:   I am working on that.  Thanks


Dearest:      Thanks, Lee. 


Lee Raffel:   Carolyn...Keep it up!


Misyork:   Husband cheated..married 33 years..having hard time getting over it, what should 
I do? 


Lee Raffel:   Misyork...It often takes therapeutic help to wash out the immense resentment 
even rage in your heart.  Couple therapists trained to specialize in affairs and mending the 
heart can be found.  Check AAMFT on web.   


Misyork:   Thank you 


Dearest:      Lee, is it so that often when people seek marriage counseling late in the game, 
it's more a catalyst for the breakup than for holding the marriage together?  


Lee Raffel:   Dearest...Again yes and no.  I save about as many marriages as divorces but 
at least my couples have an amicable parting that is protective of kids.  


Dearest:      Thank you, Lee :)  


Cinda:   What a segue to my question!  How does CS affect/protect the children?  
What happens to them during this time period?   


Lee Raffel:   Cinda  Arrangements are made for both parents to cooperatively agree to be 
with the kids -- they are not made political footballs.  Parents agree to take kids out for 
outings so that child-care remains as normal as possible.  Is remind people, "CS is not 
divorce", it is for taking time to reassess relationship.   


Dearest:      So, we might look upon CS or Controlled Separation as a form of preventive 
medicine?  <rather than drugging our partner> :)


PianoMary:   :)


KAPCOOKIE:   lol


Dearest:      :)


Lee Raffel:   Dearest...Yes, CS is a prevention oriented option that spares the family undue 
trauma   It can be a blessing instead of a curse.  


Clampam:   Husband walked out and I am thinking of getting back together.  How do I know if I 
can trust again?  I am working in another state and am thinking of moving to state where he 
is located as jobs are opening up in my field but don't want to do until we go through 
retrouvaille weekend first.  What do you advise?


Lee Raffel:   Clampan...You don't know anything for sure.  It would be best if you both 
lived in the same area.  Sounds like he is lonely and perhaps appreciating you.  Positive 
praise, thank you and appreciation goes a long way to grease the wheels of any close 
partnership. 


Dearest:      Lee, do you think people are bored with all the machinations and analysis and go 
for the divorce because it's part of our immediate gratification society? 


Lee Raffel:   Dearest...Yes, yes.  A rabbi said, Too much analysis leads to paralysis.  I 
agree.  Ask me more questions about this issue.  


Dearest:      I was about to ask, why do you suppose there are more divorces now than in the 
past? It's kind of like how easy it is to lose weight, but how hard it is to keep it off! 


Lee Raffel:   Dearest.  Divorce is acceptable in past it was not.  People are not motivated 
to stay in when marriage seemingly dies.  They don't know this is actually when the partners 
can actually work to put their union back together in a healthier way.  


Dearest:      Interesting. Thank you, Lee :)  


SavvyRealtor:   My live-in had a fling with the neighbor that didn't go very far - 
especially since I caught it early. That was 2 and a half years ago and I seemed to have 
gotten over it. Never thought I would. He's been loyal ever since and I was just wondering 
how often you hear that people get their relationships back on track and never have another 
major problem?  It's been better than ever since. It took some work, but it was well worth 
it.  We've been together, believe it or not, for 24 years.


Lee Raffel:   SavvyRealtor...Very often The affair is not the end of the marriage but a giant 
wake-up call to restore the healthy aspects and begin sharing feelings, good times, being 
empathetic, laughing together and living life with gratitude and appreciation for a good 
friend.  


SavvyRealtor:   It certainly was a giant wake up call - sort of glad it happened if you can 
understand that I was too focused on work and neglected him - not deliberately, however it 
just happened. For those who wonder if you can get things back on track - I can tell you YES.


Dearest:      Savvy, hopefully, you'll be able to get it together now and make it work!


Lee Raffel:   SavvyRealtor...And now you pay more attention to him and nurture yourself and 
your mate.  Enjoy.   


SavvyRealtor:   Oh, yes and he's a better person towards me now too.


Dearest:      That's great, Savvy :)   


CAROLYNLOVELIFE:   Why do we get on the defensive so easily when we talk as if we are being attacked?


Dearest:      You mean when you respond to someone who is attacking you?


Lee Raffel:   Carolynlovelife, because we are insecure and not confident that we are OK.


CAROLYNLOVELIFE:   True.  I think we are insecure now. 


Lee Raffel:   We all need yes, hunger for recognition and when we don't get enough we feel 
threatened or fear abandonment or betrayal.  


CAROLYNLOVELIFE:   Married 30 years.


Dearest:      Lee, what pearls of wisdom can you share with the women about relationships 
before we say goodnight?  <other than the pearls you've already shared, that is> :)


Lee Raffel:   Dearest...It is so essential not to expect to change your mate.  This leads to  
immense disappointment.  Work on self first and the rest will follow. Blessings to you all  
And thank you Dearest this was a rare treat.


Dearest:      And if I might add because it's something I've seen among certain family members 
for years, and that's "chuck the blaming." Blame doesn't solve anything. Try to get to the 
heart of the issue without spending YEARS blaming someone for all your problems.


Dearest:      Lee, thank you for a stimulating and informative chat about relationship issues. 
I highly recommend Lee Raffel's book, "SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO?" You can find it at 
amazon.com or at your better bookstore.


Lee Raffel:   Dearest, Amen.  Banish blame and you have the start of a healthy marriage.  


Dearest:      To learn more about Lee's theories, stop by and visit her Web site at: 
www.LeeRaffel.com.  

And remember to watch Lee Raffel on the TODAY SHOW next month :) Lee, do you know 
the date your interview will be aired?


Lee Raffel:   Dearest   Not yet.  Probably end of April or early May. I'll let you know Thanks again all.


Dearest:      Thanks, Lee :)



Disclaimer:  Every guest in Power Surge is a highly respected professional whose
opinions are his/her own. An appearance in Power Surge does not constitute an 
endorsement of a guest's views.

None of these transcripts may be reprinted or reproduced without 
the express permission of Power Surge™ and the respective guest.

Read other transcripts by returning to the Library.


Dearest
aka Alice Stamm
Power Surge
Founder, Facilitator, Host


Copyright©1994-2009 by Power Surge.  All Rights Reserved.