Dearest:	China Galland is one of the pioneers of the women's wilderness 
movement, a long-time student of world religions, a frequent speaker 
on women and spirituality.... and an award-winning author. Her
newest book,  The Bond Between Women:The Journey to Fierce Compassion"
"The Bond Between Women: The Journey to Fierce Compassion,"
and her critically-acclaimed, "Longing for Darkness: Tara and
the Black Madonna" are powerful narratives of the quest to discover
the feminine face of God and women's wisdom in myths, world
religions, and contemporary global activisim. She is also
author of "Women in the	Wilderness."

Dearest:  China has been a university lecturer and a wilderness guide,
and is a long-time student of comparative religion. A research
associate at the Graduate Theological Union's Center for
Women and Religion, Berkley, California, and director of the
Images of Divinity Research Project, Ms. Galland lectures widely on the
topic of the divine feminine.

China, welcome to Power Surge. In "The Bond Between Women,"
women around the world bond together to fight social injustice
and despite the constant threats around them, they are saving the
world through acts of kindness, courage and "fierce compassion."
	
I've observed women over the past four years in a struggle to come
to terms with the very difficult changes in their lives. Is it only
by knowing pain firsthand that women can develop this "fierce
compassion" to share with other women?


China Galland:	I hope not pain, but maybe anger.


Dearest:	Can you tell us more about the anger you speak of?


China Galland:	  Anger at injustice, anger at outrage, like the rape camps in 
Bosnia.


Dearest:	China, you say, "I could not face the world's pain 
until I faced my own."  Can you share with us what pain/demons/
personal issues you had to grapple with in order to make this 
journey?


China Galland:	I went to Nepal to work at Mother Teresa's and to 
go to Buddhist teachers to learn more about fierce compassion 
and to attend the celebration of Durga, the Hindu Goddess who 
comes to save the world when it's on the verge of Destruction.
	Durga's victory over the demons is an ancient myth that's 
chanted, danced, sung, and told for 9 days all over India and 
Nepal.  It's said that all the male gods had been defeated by 
the demons that were loose in the world.  Demons traditionally 
are symbols for greed, hatred, jealousy, the usual human 
failings.


Mzmerizng1:	Is this the menopause chat?


Dearest:	It is, Mzmer.. but not tonight. We're discussing 
the bonding of women.


China Galland:	Yes, this is a menopause chat hold on, it all 
connects.


Mzmerizng1:	Cool Dear...I think that is a very important issue 
also...


China Galland:	And it seems like "demons"---hatred, greed, are 
what threaten to destroy the world today yes, no?


Dearest:	Absolutely.. avarice and greed.


China Galland:	In any case, I went to learn how to respond from 
a place of compassion rather than a sense of outrage.


Mzmerizng1:	Those things that you just named, China Galland, have 
always threatened to destroy the world...


China Galland:	You're right msmeriz, but what happened was I 
ended up meeting a Nepali woman doctor who was fighting child 
prostitution, which is a big problem in  Asia, then I knew 
what fierce compassion looked like, like Dr. Aruna Uprety and 
after hearing stories of what's happening to girls as young as 
6 in Nepal and all over Asia and discovering that kids here in 
America are also getting sold and prostituted I was pretty 
horrified.


Dearest:	I saw a show, China, where young girls, as young 
as 9 and 10, were forced into lives of sexual slavery :(


China Galland:	Yes, it's true. 


Dearest:  China, how do ordinary women, such as ourselves, 
who aren't likely to travel the world... how can we effect 
changes within our own communities and around the world? 


China Galland:  I think we all have to start with what bothers us 
in particular it could be literacy, homelessness, racism, child 
prostitution, it goes on in America too.  Whatever the issue 
is that makes your blood boil when you read the paper, or hear 
about it, get into it! AND get into it first by checking out your own 
anger, examining that, taking care of your anger, but not when 
you're angry.  We have to reflect and transform that heat into 
compassion, that's when you're ready to take action, when you 
get to compassion.


Dearest:	China, do you believe that at certain times in a 
woman's life, she's more likely to embark on this journey to 
fierce compassion?  Perhaps due to life's changes? 


China Galland:	I do.  I know that when I turned 50 my friends gave 
me a birthday party.  I vowed to my community that at 50, I'd 
had plenty of time to sort through my issues and I'd done what 
I could to heal the wounds that life deals any and all of us 
and now I wanted to focus on community on the children, the 
next generation and giving back.


Dearest:	China, thank you for the wonderful input.  
Cinda, go ahead.


THRV Cinda:	I seem to see so many women who are jealous 
and non-helpful to other women.  Why do you think women do 
this instead bonding together as a force against what hurts them?  
Do think it's something instilled in us since time began? 


Dearest:	Excellent question


China Galland:	Good question!!
		I also talk in the book about the wound between 
women and I think that when women turn on each other that 
we're coming out of our own woundedness, not our power.  We 
need to get a lot more conscious about pulling together and 
dealing with our jealousies, anger and conflict head on, not 
behind each other's backs.  That's what creates real bonds 
between women - bonds that can change the world!


Dearest:	China, this bonding.. this fierce compassion... 
this is what I've had as a goal for Power Surge :)  
		Are all women destined to make a personal spiritual 
journey and isn't it somewhat optimistic to believe that a 
woman's personal journey will invariably result in positive 
results?  I've seen many women come out on the other side of 
difficulty - hardened and cynical and not kind to others in 
need.


China Galland:	Absolutely, we're all human.


Dearest:	China, what was the catalyst that sent you 
travelling all over the world and to write the beautiful 
account of it in The Bond Between Women?"


China Galland:   I read a story in the paper about how young women, 
my daughter's age, in their 20's, were hanging themselves in 
Bosnia.  Actually it was the photograph of a young girl in her 
20s' hanging from a tree because the young women refused to be 
put in the rape camps and I thought I can't stand this I have 
to do something but what.... that was the catalyst.


Dearest:	China, do you believe this "journey" is a religious, 
spiritual, feminist ... or...combination of all?  


China Galland:	  I think all our journeys are ultimately spiritual, 
it just takes a while to discover that. Another way to say it 
is that the journey is ultimately about healing.  I thought I 
was going to help but I was going for healing from my own 
wounds I found out later.


Dearest:	Thank you. TZ, go ahead now, please :)


TZdoe:	I am thinking that the initial catalyst for this 
anger may be our hormonal imbalances.  Many of us feel a rage 
about things that may not have affected us like this before. 
And we calm down a bit when our hormones are again balanced.  
We may not feel quite as personally involved even with these 
awful examples but for our hormones.


China Galland:	  TZ, you may be right, but if the hormones are raging, 
then that's what we/I/you have to work with---the present 
moment, right now.


TZdoe:	I think that is why our age women may be so anxious 
to go out and change the world.  It is a good thing in this way.


Dearest:	China, what does "feminism" mean to you?


China Galland:   An affirmation of the value of womanhood.


Dearest:	China, can you explain this "fierce, female 
divinity" who awaits our discovery?


China Galland:	  It's that part of us that knows the value of being 
a woman, who chooses it and who doesn't back off or bow down 
before anyone.


Dearest:  Do you think some women/men are chosen to be 
messengers? 


China Galland:	  No, I think we each have that capacity.  Some develop 
it, some don't. 


Dearest:   Can one be born with a sense of fierce compassion 
for humanity, or must it evolve through personal experience and 
turmoil and examination?


China Galland:  I think we're born with an instinctive sense of 
what's fair and fierce compassion can come out of that.


Dearest:   But, we sometimes seem to be fighting windmills, no?  
Or, do you think we have the capacity to change that? 


China Galland:   I think we can't be attached to results too much.  
It's about doing what's right about what's in front of us, no 
matter what.


Dearest:   Fascinating... Cinda, go ahead :)


THRV Cinda:	As a college instructor I saw many women returning 
to college, leaving abusive situations, beginning over again 
with college.  I truly believe education is the key to 
empowerment for women.  Not college education either.  Power 
Surge tries to help women educate themselves in meno, a life 
change.  Educating our selves against prejudice, and then 
educating our daughters.  I think that's where we've failed, in 
passing on our empowerment to the next generation.  


Dearest:  Interesting comment, Cinda... China, did you want 
to respond? 


China Galland:	   Yes, I wouldn't issue a blanket failure but this 
is where the work needs to be done with mentoring, passing on 
whatever we've gotten to the next generation and protecting the 
young women, not turning away from them.


Dearest:   China, do you think women are harder on themselves 
in the "forgiveness" department?   


China Galland:   I'm not sure any of us know much about the process, 
it's difficult.  It does NOT mean forgetting it may be hard for 
us as women because we're socialized not to show anger or get 
into conflict, at least I was.


Dearest:   And when we do show anger, it's usually blamed on 
hormones.


China Galland:  Right and that's a way to marginalize and 
trivialize us.


Dearest:   Sue, please ask your question now :)


THRV Sue:   Earlier in my life, I was the activist.  Now at 49,  
I have lost that spark.  I no longer feel like I can change the 
world.  Are you saying I should still be looking?  Do you think 
I will find that spark again?


China Galland:  Good question.


Dearest:   We're all in menopause, China.


China Galland:   I'm not prescribing for anyone and I don't think 
any ONE of us can save the world, but I do believe that the 
small group, the community is POWERFUL----just a few, committed, 
clear individuals, 12 or less can start a revolution.




Dearest:   Sja, go ahead :)


Sja4home:   Ok...just a couple of comments.  I think the 
empowerment of women is done my men and women alike. 
My dad always told me that I could do anything I set my mind to - 
and what a feeling that was for me...a wide open world of 
opportunity. And... I think our lives are full of peaks and 
valleys. Some days we just want to sit back and watch. Some 
years we have the strength to move mountains. We should 
capitalize on our stronger times. 


Dearest:  That resonates because I was told that from the 
time I was a child and I believe it!


China Galland:	   Me too, with Father's Day, this is a great point 
AND there are things that only women teach another woman.


Dearest:   Thank you, China...Go, Cinda :)


THRV Cinda:	China, Do you think our "culture" is inhibiting or 
encouraging our ability to develop "fierce compassion?" 
	Tried to be shorter this time ! :D 


China Galland:	   I think it's opening up for us, yes! And, Dearest, 
is a great example! 


Dearest:	Moi? Can you elaborate, China? 



China Galland:   I'll try, we've got a whole new world role models, 
women as strong, whether it's Streep rowing down a river, or 
Dearest taking over the internet, we're going for it! 


Dearest:	You bet we are, China, and I have a fierce 
compassion for all the women of Power Surge :) Thank you :)


Dearest:	CWhite, did you have question?  


CWhite9898:	Dear - wanted to make sure chat is about women 
in men's jobs?  Retired policeman of 20 yrs.... 


Dearest:	About women in men's jobs? 


CWhite9898:	Yes Dear, is that what chat is about? 


China Galland:   It's about women empowering other women. 


Dearest:	Well, what is the question about women in men's 
jobs?  You didn't finish the part about policeman for 20 years.  
Were you a policeman/woman for 20 years? 


CWhite9898:	I understand women empowering other women.  Have 
been police for 20 yrs. Hurt & retired. 


Dearest:	You are a retired policewoman. What about the part 
where you were hurt? 


CWhite9898:	Not important Dear - as I said just confirming chat
- sorry I'm not the strong woman was in job.


Dearest:	Ahh... I think that's what THRV Sue was saying 
before.  Many of us going through menopause are worn, China.  
Many of us were activists and had great passion for changing 
things, but now we're going thru our own.. changes.  How to 
get back the feeling? 


DCarlin111:	Wow! Really well said Dear!


China Galland:   It will come when its time.


Dearest:	I think we remain within a closed community, 
China, to support one another through this time. I've seen it 
happen for four years. 


China Galland:   Good point, can't do this alone.


DCarlin111:	Yes, Dearest, where did the passion go?!


Dearest:	I think it may have gone with the estrogen, DC :)


DCarlin111:	hahahhahaha


Dearest:	Sue, go ahead.


THRV Sue:	How do I go about making the connections again.  
Where does one meet women of similar interests anymore?  Is 
this medium (internet) really another step? Should I spend 
more time in Berkeley? (g)


China Galland:	   Just notice what moves you.  When you read the 
paper, what gets you stirred up? It's not a place, it's 
something INSIDE you.


Harnden:  Have you thought about trying testosterone dear?


Dearest:	I have, Hamden, in the form of Robert Redford :)


Dearest:	Cinda, go ahead :)


THRV Cinda:	China, why did you choose to go outside the US to 
develop this compassion instead of developing it in the US?  


China Galland:   It's always easier to see things outside then when 
I came home, I saw things I didn't notice or was afraid to see 
before.


DCarlin111:   It's is also easier when you are in third world 
countries!


China Galland:	   DCarlin's right.


Dearest:	China, what I gather from your writings and travels 
is that fierce compassion doesn't have to be "activisim" or LOUD, 
but it can be accomplished in quiet ways, too, yes? 


China Galland: Dearest, yes, thank you!  It can be very quiet.


THRV Cinda:	Please explain, why is it easier in a 3rd world 
country?


China Galland:   Thrv Cinda, easier because there's less to cover up 
the problems.  They're all there in front of you.


THRV Cinda:	Thank you.


Dearest:	Go ahead, DC.


DCarlin111:	In a third world country people do not have hardly 
anything we take for granted, souls seem to be a bit more 
innocent and open to share and discuss life.   Yes, China Galland, 
people are more simpler and problems pretty obvious.


China Galland:   Yes, people are dancing on the street in front of 
you as well as dying.


DCarlin111:   Yes China Galland, very moving indeed!



Dearest:	Let us do something... I'd like everyone in this 
room to name two things about which you feel great 
passion.  About things you'd like to change.
	
	Name two things you'd like to see changed in the country, 
in your community or in your personal life. Or, in the 
world.

Type them to screen.  Everyone, please.


THRV Sue:	gov waste.....women treated as property
DCarlin111:	Would like to change the image in this country of 
aging woman.
AnnamCara:	Equality and dignity in health care

PianoMary:	Many fewer guns, more control over same
China Galland:	the exploitation of children in the world and 2) 
the amount of energy I have 
Dearest:	Illiteracy, poverty, child pornography
CWhite9898:	Compassion for children of all colors--forgetting 
that they are of color...
THRV Cinda:	Pay inequality and discrimination
DCarlin111:	That no one goes hungry and that everyone can 
receive excellent health care.


Dearest:	Excellent answers.  China, elaborate on 
"the amount of energy I have," please.


China Galland:	Energy:  I have to work harder at 54 to keep up.  
My physical stamina.


DCarlin111:	wow China Galland!


Dearest:	Quite a challenge, yes?  How do you overcome it? 


China Galland:  It's a daily effort, works best when I with a good 
long walk early, prayer and spiritual reading to inspire me.


Dearest:	Do you practice affirmations, China? 


China Galland:   No, Dearest, I just ask for the Love in the 
universe to help and show me how to help.


Dearest:	China, any ideas for your next book?  Next journey? 


China Galland:  Next journey is to France 5/99 to pilgrimage to 
Black Madonnas and also get the Wilderness book back in print 
and go climbing with my son.


Dearest:   Please explain to those who don't know.. what are 
the Black Madonnas? 


China Galland:  Great healers and miracle workers in European 
catholic tradition - black images of the mother of Christ. Very 
mysterious, parallels with earth mother.


Dearest:	Thank you... go ahead, Cinda.


THRV Cinda:	Why are they black? The Madonnas? 


China Galland:  Different reasons at different sites. Example - 
black meteorite stone worshipped in pre-Christian time, 
influence of Isis from Africa earlier worship of earthmother.  


DCarlin111:	Black universe, void, representing the unknown!


China Galland:	   Yes, DC.


Dearest:	And this is part of your Images of Divinity Research 
Project? 


China Galland:   Yes, and making a pilgrimage is a great healing.


DCarlin111:	How wonderful for you China Galland!


Dearest:	China, share your Web site with everyone again, 
please. It's fascinating for them to visit.


China Galland:   www.imagesofdivinity.org. You can join the trip, we're 
taking about 15 people.  Call 914/ 687-2254 


Dearest:	How wonderful. Thanks for the information.  What 
sort of cost is involved? 


China Galland:  Lorna Roberts of Triquetra Journeys in NY is doing 
the trip.  Cost is $3700 incl airfare, guides, hotels, instruction, 
land transportation.


Dearest:	How long will the trip last? 


China Galland:   May 11-May 28, 1999 I'll put more info on my website 


Dearest:	China, thank you for fielding our questions tonight about
your wonderful new book, "The Bond Between Women:
The Journey to Fierce Compassion."

For more information about China's book and research, visit her
The Images of Divinity Research Project Web site. 
 
Please join me in thanking our guest tonight, China Galland, for a 
fascinating discussion :)

China Galland:  Thanks for having me, I love this! 

Dearest:	China, I think we got shortchanged because of Father's Day.. 
you must come	back again.

China Galland:	  I would love to do this again, I'm just getting the hang of it, 
please invite me back, 


PianoMary:	{S applause
DCarlin111:	Thank you thank you thank you!
Dearest:	We'll set up another time, China, and we'll have a bigger crowd for you :)

THRV Sue:	Thank-you for coming
PianoMary:	{S applause
Dearest:	Thanks so much.. we just touched the tip of this fascinating iceberg.

DCarlin111:	Yes just the tip!    Bless you too Dear.
and Sue and Cinda!


China Galland: 	Yes, blessings to all 


Dearest:	China, I want to explore more of this fierce compassion among 
women at midlife and in menopause, too.


China Galland:    You are definitely on to something, I had not
connected it to menopause but there's much
to say about it, women leaders in India were in 
their 50s when they rose up to stop deforest


Dearest:	China, I have never seen such compassion among 
women as I see in Power Surge every day.


China Galland:   I should stop now, yes Dear? or are we going on? 


Dearest:	We've kept you long enough, China... we'll
continue on another date.. and NOT a holiday!

China Galland:	   Promise? 

Dearest:	I promise!! Hahaha!

Dearest:	Thank you SO much for your wisdom, articulateness 
and "fierce compassion" 

DCarlin111:	Yes, I wish you could stay longer!

China Galland:	      Deal  and thanks Dear, 

DCarlin111:	Yes, we shall meet again in the future!

Dearest:	Thanks to you, China :)

DCarlin111:	Yes my compassion as gotten fiercer!

China Galland:       All right! 

DCarlin111:	And sweeter also!

Dearest:	And my fierceness has gotten more passionate (g)

China Galland:   Wonderful Dear 

Dearest:	I think during menopause we have an enormous amount 
of mental passion :)

DCarlin111:	That sounds good Dear! 	hahahahahaah

Dearest:	China, are you in menopause?

China Galland: 	Also, I think we're old enough to not be so 
concerned about others opinions

DCarlin111:	Yes!!!!

China Galland:	        And yes, I'm in menopause 

Dearest:	Oh, yes! I agree completely. Took a long time 
getting here, China.

DCarlin111:	A relief to let go of others opinions influencing 
us!

Dearest:	You bet, DC. China, how are you feeling physically through it?

China Galland:     Generally good, but I had a very hard time with 
sleep deprivation and headaches over the past year 
with the stress of finishing this book  

Dearest:	I can imagine. How are the headaches and insomnia 
now?  The book is so detailed.

China Galland:	Evening out, but I don't know if it's because the 
book is done, if I'm in a new stage of menopause

DCarlin111:	Oh my, bless you!

China Galland:	   Or if it's the supplements like black currant oil, 
etc. that my doc's given me 

DCarlin111:	Or circulation changes!

Dearest:	Are you still having headaches?  Insomnia? I can 
make some recommendations.

China Galland:   I'm having an easier time but suggestions are 
welcome, I got flattened by a migraine in New York 
on the book tour one day.


Dearest:	Get yourself magnesium.... 500 mg.
		Take it every day.. and if you feel a migraine 
coming on, take one.  Also, ask your doc/naturopath 
about Feverfew and Kava Kava/Magnesium, Feverfew 
and Kava Kava together work wonders for my British 
sis-in-law who's suffered from horrific migraines for years.

Only thing I'd caution is not to start taking numerous herbs at once.
Take them individually in the event you have an adverse reaction. That
way you'll know what's causing it. 


China Galland:	 Kava was something suggested too, thanks for the reminder. 


Dearest:	And for the insomnia, get some Melatonin.  But take sparingly.


China Galland:	    Didn't know about feverfew _ mag 


Dearest:   Mag is excellent for migraines and natural.


China Galland:	   Thanks. 


Dearest:	But not less than 500 mg at a throw.


China Galland:	Dear, this is been very helpful, will sign on again, all 
for now. 


Dearest:	Thanks, again. You were wonderful.


China Galland:	So were you 


Dearest:	We'll have you back soon :) Goodnight and feel better!


China Galland:	    Good night 



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Dearest
aka Alice Stamm
Power Surge
Founder, Facilitator, Host


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