(Steven Carter visit #5 to Power Surge)

Dearest:  I'd like to introduce my guest now - and one of my favorites :)

Internationally respected relationship expert and authority on the word he 
coined, "commitmentphobia," my guest tonight, STEVEN CARTER, is the co-author 
of over 20 books, among them, the NY Times runaway bestseller, 
"Men Who Can't Love" ... and 
"He's Scared, She's Scared", 
"What Smart Women Know", 
"Men Like Women Who Like Themselves", 
"Getting To Commitment" and 
"This Is How Love Works" and his newest, 
 Help! I'm In Love With A Narcissist

Steven has appeared on such national shows as Oprah, Sally, Geraldo, Maury 
Povich, Today, Good Morning, America, CBS This Morning, CNN and many others. 
He and his co-author's work is featured regularly in magazines such as 
"Cosmopolitan," "Glamour," "New Woman" and "Mademoiselle."

What Smart Women Know climbed to the top of Brazil’s bestseller lists (including 
Veja Magazine, Epoca Magazine, and Folha de S. Paulo).  The book has now been 
on the lists in Brazil for over 90 weeks!  In April of 2008, Men Like Women 
Who Like Themselves, the sequel to What Smart Women Know, joined its sibling 
on Brazil’s bestseller lists.  Carter now makes at least three trips a year 
to Brazil, and contributes to various newspapers and magazines in Rio de 
Janeiro and Sao Paulo. 

Welcome back to Power Surge, Steven. The fear of commitment, or as you call 
it, "commitmentphobia" -- is it more common before a relationship begins, or 
something that one becomes aware of after entering into or being in a 
relationship for years? 


Steven Carter:    That depends on the person.  Some people know right away, 
it hits them immediately.  Others have a delayed response, like a time bomb.  
It all depends on what people experience as their point of no return.  And 
this 'point of no return' is different for everyone.  For some people, it's 
the first date.  For some, it's the first intimate experience, for some it's 
marriage, for some it's the birth of a first child.  So this is very tricky 
stuff.


Dearest:    Isn't it common for failed relationships, divorce, to cause 
people to become commitmentphobic, as opposed to people, say, who've lost a 
loved one to death but had a happy marriage?


Steven Carter:    Of course.  But understand that some people are naturally 
'claustrophobic' when it comes to intimacy.  Commtmentphobia is a 
claustrophobic reaction to being in a relationship.  If you've been burned 
you're going to be afraid but the worst commitmentphobes have been burned in 
a different way.  They were burned as children, or as infants.  Their 
intimate connections were damaged a long time ago.


Dearest:    That's interesting because it leads to my next question....
Steven, what of those of us who have seen so few good relationships during 
our lives?  When the mind games are constantly observed during our formative 
years, how can that not add to our own success or failures in the 
relationships we form as adults?


Steven Carter:    Bad role models don't help us but the worst model is the 
interaction we had with those who cared for us.  Your relationship with your 
father has a lot more influence on your commitment fear than your father's 
relationship with your mother.  Am I making myself clear?


Dearest:    How interesting. Thank you. 


Dearest:    Steven, that last line intrigues me - can you elaborate a bit 
about what you said about your relationship with your father and your fear of 
commitment?


Steven Carter:    I think it's really important to understand that last 
point.  We tend to focus on our parent's relationship with each other 
thinking that was the thing that influenced us most, but it is the parent's 
relationship to the child that shapes the problem most.

 
Dearest:    Thanks, Steven. 


HSpec:    When empty nest occurs and the children are no longer there to run 
interference, how can a married couple go about finding the spark that got 
the relationship started in the first place?


Steven Carter:    I think this is one of the most challenging times.  It is a 
time when the relationship is tested.  Do we really have a relationship 
without our children present?  So many couples ask themselves this question.  
I think the only way to ignite anything is to have the desire to do so.  You 
have to want this relationship, you have to want to continue as a couple.  
This is a time when many couples start counseling.  
Counseling helps you reconnect to the reasons why you are together and that 
can help ignite something.  In counseling, you are forced to dig deep.  Of 
course, many people want to avoid that.


HSpec:    Thanks, glad to know we are doing the right thing.


Dearest:    I wonder what the success rates are with marriage counseling. 
I've seen so many people go through it and it seems to only confirm their 
desire to end the relationship. 


Steven Carter:    That is certainly a possible outcome.  The first thing you 
need to do is make sure you are working with a counselor who believes in the 
couple.  The counselor/therapist has to believe in the couple.  If it is a 
therapist who stresses 'the individual' you're going to have more problems.  
Many therapists have their own agenda, and it's not a couples agenda.  So you 
have to know, from the very beginning, who you are working with.  That 
becomes very clear very quickly.  If you can't establish the therapists 
direction, run away.


Dearest:    What possible agenda could a therapist have that wouldn't agree 
with the agenda/needs of and benefit their patients? 


Steven Carter:    Many therapists focus on the needs of the individual to 
such an extent that it can be very damaging.  The needs of the individual are 
very important, of course but a therapist has to believe in the possibility 
of coupling.  It can't all be about individual needs.  Relationships are not 
about individual needs.  They are about getting needs met in the context of a 
couple and that means that all of my needs don't always get met on my 
schedule.  If you want to be part of a couple you have to be okay with that 
in the same way that if you want to be a parent you have to be okay with 
putting your needs behind the needs of your child.  Some therapists champion 
the individual and it ends there.  A lot of couples break up 
because the therapist is feeding the fire of individualism.


Dearest:    Very interesting, Steven. Thanks. TXANN, go ahead, please. 


TxAnn908:    Is commitment defined differently today than it was, say, 50 
years ago? 


Steven Carter:    Certainly.  But commitmentphobia isn't.  Commitmentphobia 
is a claustrophobic reaction to closeness and connection and that fear hasn't 
changed.

The way we handle it has changed.  Fifty years ago commitmentphobics got 
married - almost all of them did - because they didn't have a lot of options.  
Today, people have options, and many are opting out.  By the way, this 
doesn't mean they were good husbands and wives.  They still had the problem, 
so they distanced themselves in different ways.  They ran away from love 
without running out the door.


Dearest:    Years ago, ideas of commitment issues were generally attributed 
to the male in the relationship, but don't women today often have commitment 
issues as frequently as men? 


Steven Carter:    I don't know if it's fifty-fifty but it's a lot.  Many 
women are beginning to understand their own conflicts and they are beginning 
to see that they are drawn to men with conflicts because it feels better, at 
first.  It feels safe.  Men who are open and available aren't safe.  Married 
men are safe.  Men with commitment problems are safe.


Dearest:    How interesting. 


HSpec:    Many of us who are going through perimenopause and menopause have a 
need for being alone. How to we get our partners to understand this without 
them feeling rejection?


Steven Carter:    You have to talk about it and you probably have to talk 

about it with a therapist.  This is very hard for men to understand.  They 
don't have an 'equivalent', really except maybe losing their job.  When men 
lose their jobs they tend to isolate.  I can't think of another equivalent.  
Some none has to help the man understand how normal this is.   That it's not 
him, that you still love him, that you still love him and want to be with him 
but that you're going through a personal struggle that makes you need to be 
more separate for now.  Not forever.

All of these things have to be established:  that it's not forever, that he 
hasn't done anything wrong, that you still love him and want to be with him.  
I think many women distance themselves because they don't think their partner 
will WANT to be with them so that needs to be dealt with too.


HSpec:    Thank you. 


Dearest:    Isn't that a bit of a double standard though, Many men want 
"their time" alone, doing the things they do with their friends or on their 
own and women are supposed to understand.  Why shouldn't they understand that 
during this transition women need time to be alone, to regroup, to 
introspect, to be "calm."  (or not calm)


Steven Carter:    I just think it's important that the man understands what 
the sudden change is, and that he hasn't done anything wrong.  Everyone 
freaks out when a partner distances because they think they've done something 
wrong or that they're being replaced.  You're entitled to your time alone.  
He just needs to understand that he hasn't done anything to provoke this.  
It's the lack of communication that creates problems and it IS an adjustment 
and adjustments are hard.  Always.

We get used to our relationships being a certain way.  Change is difficult.  
You have to work on ways to move everyone through that change.


Dearest:    Thanks, Steven. 


PianoMary:    What would be some good questions to ask when trying to find a 
therapist? 


Steven Carter:    If I was looking for a couples counselor I would want to 
know what their relationship status is.  Of course, they're going to tell you 
it's not relevant and it's not your business but you have to tell them it's 
important to you that you are working with someone who prioritizes coupling, 
someone who believes in the possibility of coupling.  You have to tell them 
you are coming here to solidify the couple not to pick it apart.  Your goal 
is to solidify the couple and that is what you want the focus to be.  If 
that's not the focus you want, that's another matter.


PianoMary:    Thanks so much, Steven  :)  


Dearest:    Steven, aren't there some very basic differences between men and 
women that oftentimes make it impossible for men to understand the changes a 
woman goes through during menopause, no matter how much the woman might try 
to explain to him? 


Steven Carter:    Of course.  You're never going to understand what it means 
to be a man and no man is ever going to understand what it means to be a 
woman or a woman in midlife.  Having said that, you have to try to help them 
understand as much as possible.  When your partner is struggling, you want to 
understand and it doesn't matter what sex you are.


BerylPebbles:    We keep talking about the man.  Trying to make him 
understand about what the woman is going through.  Isn't it possible that the 
woman doesn't want to believe that her distance is menopause related?  And 
that she is in denial and therefore the marriage is ruined?


Steven Carter:    I think that is possible.  I think a lot of women think 
it's the relationship that is the problem but no one should ever make a 
decision about her future when she is in the throes of menopause.  You have 
to talk to someone.  You have to get clarity.  You have to do the same thing 
you would advise any friend to do, not to cut and run because something has 
shifted.  You have to understand the shift.  Maybe it's a horrible 
relationship or maybe you will feel very different a year from now.  You have 
to work with this stuff.  You can't just cut and run.


Dearest:    Menopause can last a long time -- up to 12 years -- Steven, and 
have tremendous impact on a relationship and many women DO change 
dramatically during and even after menopause. Many relationships simply can't 
tolerate the changes that come with getting older, don't you agree?  I mean, 
she's not the same young whipper snapper she was when they married.


Steven Carter:    I do. I think that a lot of women want to leave their 
partners because they are convinced they are no longer attractive, sexy, etc.  
They can't imagine that their partner has a love that can hold that.  That 
attractiveness is so much more complicated than that.  That love is so much 
more complicated than that.  If it isn't, I'm not sure what you had in the 
first place.  Someone who is truly connected to a partner isn't running 
anywhere so quickly.  That connection has meaning.


Dearest:    Don't you think a lot of MEN want to leave their partners because 
THEY don't think SHE'S still attractive or sexy, so they go out looking for a 
younger replacement?


Steven Carter:    Superficial men, men with no depth and no real heart or men 
who are going through their own menopause and are terrified.  But I don't 
think it's a simple thing.  I don't think that a man wants to replace his 
partner the moment she is showing some age lines.  Maybe in Hollywood.  But 
not where there are men with real hearts.  That was a joke about Hollywood, 
by the way. I think there are superficial men everywhere but there are also 
men with depth and integrity everywhere.  If you have built a loving 
relationship, you have built an amazing thing.  No one walks away from a 
truly loving relationship very easily.  It is an absence of connection that 
makes disconnection so easy.

I want to say that again.  It is an absence of connection that makes 
disconnection so easy.  If you are focusing on the connection as you would if 
you were reading THIS IS HOW LOVE WORKS then you would be creating something 
with strength and durability.


Dearest:    In "He's Scared, She's Scared", you talk about universal human 
commitment issues. What do you mean by the fear of giving up the dream? 


Steven Carter:    Giving up our many different fantasies for something real 
that doesn't match those many fantasies, our dreams of perfect partnership or 
other dreams like dreams of greatness, dreams of travel and adventure, dreams 
of who knows what.  I'll take one more question.


HOST SURGE Irene:    Do you think that a woman may sabotage the relationship 
and opt to exit out rather than be rejected?


Steven Carter:    Absolutely.  And I think I've been suggesting that all 
along.  Most of us sabotage our relationships because somewhere deep down we 
feel it's just a matter of time before we are rejected anyway.  And I think 
that menopause really triggers those feelings about ourselves, the feelings 
have been there all along but menopause brings them to the surface, closer to 
the surface and we experience that as the desire to exit.  But that's not 
what it is.  It's the fear that we will be exited on.


HOST SURGE Irene:    Thank you.


Dearest:    Why is it that as we get older, and I've heard many people talk 
about this....
that our demons and unresolved issues come back to haunt us? 


Steven Carter:    Because our defenses lose their strength.  People with 
commitment fears run and run and run but sooner or later the thing they have 
been running from finds them.


Dearest:    Run from themselves?


Steven Carter:    Exactly


Dearest:    Ahhh


Steven Carter:    But sooner or later, that will find you.
ahhh


Dearest:    Ahhh LOL


Dearest:    Steven, thanks once again for 
a wonderful chat, for your excellent insight into relationships and for 
spending this time with us in Power Surge.  I can't recommend Steven Carter's 
books too strongly. You'll learn a great deal about yourself and how you 
interact with your partners in life. 

Steven's books can be found on his numerous transcripts in the Web site's 
Library. He's also Power Surge's Relationship Expert, which you'll find on 
the Web site at "Ask The Experts".


Steven Carter:    Thank you, everyone.



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Dearest
aka Alice Stamm
Power Surge
Founder, Facilitator, Host


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