(Steven Carter's 4th visit to Power Surge)

Dearest:   Tonight's guest in Power Surge is Steven Carter, internationally 
respected relationship expert and the author of 19 books, including the NY Times 
runaway bestseller, "Men Who Can't Love", "He's Scared, She's Scared", 
"What Smart Women Know", "Men Like Women Who Like Themselves", 
"Getting To Commitment" and "This Is How Love Works".

Steven's work has been featured in many major publications and he has appeared on 
hundreds of TV and radio programs as expert in the area of relationships and 
commitment.

Welcome back to Power Surge, Steven. Since Power Surge's audience is generally 
composed of women at midlife in long-term marriages, or perhaps second 
marriages/partnerships, what relationship problems are you most asked about  
by the over-40 generation? 


Steven Carter:   Many of the very same questions that are asked the first time 
around.  You see, relationships are hard regardless of when, or with whom and 
most people find themselves  back in the very same dilemmas they faced when they 
were younger.

A lot of people had their children, putting the relationship on hold.  Then the 
children grow up and we face our partners for the first time  realizing that we 
haven't constructed a relationship separate from the family relationship.  

Other people are experiencing themselves at midlife realizing that they still 
don't have a 'significant other.'  And they are wondering, Is it me? or Is it 
them?  In other words, do I have my own obstacles that are preventing me from 
connecting and staying connected to a loving partner?  Or is it just that 
relationships are hard, or impossible?  Or is it because 'all the good ones are 
taken'?

So really, the issue that returns in midlife is the issue of "connection".  Do I 
have the 'stuff' to make and keep a connection, or don't I have the 'stuff'?

This is a critical time because it is the time we must shift from blaming 'him' 
or 'her' and start examing our own insides if we are going to find love.


Dearest:   But that person we were attracted to in the beginning isn't the same 
person, neither are we even though we find ourselves "alone" again. Don't we have 
to make some serious adjustments to our expectations? 


Steven Carter:   Absolutely.  I meet very few people whose expectations are 
grounded in reality.  Reality means adjusting to the lack of 'perfect', the 'de-
idealization' of partnership.  The understanding that many of us have been 
holding out for something that doesn't exist in the real world.  

The vast majority of people I talk to are still having their most powerful 
relationships with fantasies of 'him' or 'her'.  Those fantasies keep us stuck.  
They don't prepare us for healthy partnership.  They keep us from having any kind 
of real world relationship experience.  They encourage us to bail out of good 
relationships because we don't value the 'good enough' relationship.  Because, 
for example, the sex is not consistently fabulous, or because we argue, or 
because we don't like the same things, or because we don't have 'two hearts that 
beat as one'.  People still cling to those fantasies.

Now there is also another issue.  Many of us are looking at our partners and 
wondering...
Who are you?
What have we been doing for the past fifteen years?
Do I really love you?
Do I even LIKE you?

This is also a time of opportunity if you see the opportunity in it.  These are 
healthy questions, valid questions.  But not reasons to end the relationship and 
start all over again with someone new.  Then you're just like the sterotypical 
guy who trades in his forty year old partner for two twenty-year olds.  That's a 
zero growth move.  Worse...it's a negative growth move.

The challenge is to meet midlife head on ...  Not to run ... but to work.  Yet we 
also live in the most disposable of times.  People are ready to leave their 
partners faster than they are ready to toss their old computer for the newest 
fastest model.  We have to learn how to UPGRADE.  How to upgrade the relationship 
we have, not dispose of it, but UPGRADE it to a relationship we can live with in 
the second half of life.

Tossing out a decent connection accomplishes nothing.  And you'll be doing the 
same thing again in another five years, or ten years, because you failed to learn 
how to upgrade.


Dearest:   Thanks, Steven. Excellent answers :) I have one more question and then 
we'll get to the queue.

So often you hear someone say, "I went into that relationship for the wrong 
reasons." Most of us commit to another person because we believe we "love" them. 
How do we know what reasons to look for before entering a commmitment? Are there 
certain questions we should first ask ourselves in order to ascertain whether 
we're entering into a commitment for the right reasons? 


Steven Carter:   I think that love is crucial, but it is not sufficient.  So yes, 
there are many questions.  
One question is, what are my goals here?  
Am I just thinking about how I feel right now? 
Is there really a clear future in this relationship? 
Have I been able to talk about that future with this person? 
Am I making assumptions about his or her future goals or are we both clear?
Are we truly, truly on the same page?
Have we discussed vital issues such as family, children, money, commitment?
Have we discussed anything at all, aside from the fact that we love each other?
People have to get dreadfully practical at this point.  Otherwise, problems come 
forward very quickly.  Someone gets a job offer cross country and the 
relationship is thrown into chaos.  Someone gets injured and the relationship is 
thrown into chaos.  Someone feels the 'magic of love' wearing off just a bit and 
the relationship is thrown into chaos.

So there are critical issues here. What does commitment mean to you?  What does 
commitment mean to me?  Are they the same things?  If they aren't, what does that 
mean for us?  There has to be clear agreement on fundamental issues.

This is not just dating and playing, this is serious business. People uproot 
their lives for partners, have children, create great complexity in their 
relationships.

And this is unavoidable, but you'd better know you are doing this with someone who 
has exactly the same vision and plan as you.


Janette:   In a new relationship, how can we overcome the baggage and fears we 
bring into the relationship, so that the relationship can work?


Steven Carter:   That is the six million dollar question every single one of us 
has to face.  I tell people this...

Never assume you can handle all of this material yourself.  That's what couples 
counselors and therapists are for.  If you're not open to therapy and/or 
counseling, you're not ready for a real relationship.


TSMedley:   My husband and I are both going through apparently our own "midlife 
crises". We seem to have drifted apart a bit. He's suddenly into body building, 
and I'm irritated that I have to do everything. How do we keep our "new" 
expectations of ourselves and others from damaging our marriage? 


Steven Carter:   I think the first thing yo have to do is stop doing everything 
because as long as you keep doing everything he'll let you and you'll stay angry.  
Body building is great, but relationship building has to take precedence at some 
point-- maybe for one hour a week in a counselor's office.  I think the real 
problem is that we fall into patterns and resent the patterns we fall into.  But 
all we do is collect the resentment.  

You have to call a time-out here.  You have to, because he's not going to.  
You're the one doing all of the hard work.  Maybe it needs to start with a very 
simple conversation about feeling that things are lopsided right now.  And that 
you're feeling like a mommy, not a partner.  A big machismo body builder doesn't 
want to hear that his wife is feeling like a mommy to him.


TSMedley:   Thank you so much! You are so good!


Dearest:   You coined the word "commitmentphobic." Aren't we all afraid of 
commitment to some degree? 


Steven Carter:   The fear of commitment is normal.  The fear of commitment is 
healthy.  It's what you do with that fear...
Do you get destructive with it...
Do you panic and run...
Do you use it as an excuse to exit the relationship...
Or do you say, "Okay, this is normal...I'm uncomfortable, but I'm supposed to be uncomfortable..."
So how to I manage my discomfort?
Where do I go to talk about it?
I think the biggest problem is that people use their discomfort as an excuse to 
torpedo their relationships.

MEMORIZE THIS: Commitment anxiety is healthy. It means you're on the right track.


Margaret:   Other then the obvious signs how do we know when the love has gone 
from our marriage? 


Steven Carter:   If there is no feeling, the love may be gone.  But far more 
often there are all kinds of feelings... anger, frustration., confusion.  These 
do not mean that the love is gone.  When a relationship is charged with emotion, 
whatever that emotion is, there is usually a lot of love in there too.  This 
doesn't mean it's a good relationship or a healthy relationship but when you ask 
'is the love gone?'   That's a strange question to me because I think you would 
know if you feel no love for a partner.



MaryO:   I have a husband who travels more than he's home.  When he gets home, 
he's still not really "here" - he's on the phone, emailing, at meetings, talking 
to everyone but me. Is there any good way I can get his attention? 


Steven Carter:   You need to thump him with a copy of THIS IS HOW LOVE WORKS.  
Actually, you need to wait for a good opportunity, a quiet moment and then tell 
him what you are feeling.  Don't accuse him of neglecting you, but tell him that 
you miss him, you miss him even when he is with you because he is not really with 
you and that makes you sad and lonely.  Which I would imagine it does.

But this has to come at a quiet moment.  Not as an attack. And no, what you don't 
want to do is some outrageous act to get his attention.  You don't need to wrap 
yourself in saran wrap, you don't need to do anything eye-catching.  You just 
need to wait till you have his attention, and you  are calm and clear enough to 
deliver your experience of him.  He needs to understand that his constant 
activity leaves you feeling sad. YOU MISS HIM. let him know. 


MaryO:   Thanks so much!  <I'd NEVER do the saran wrap!>


Dearest:   Steven, with the advent of the Internet, lots of people are meeting 
online. Lots of married people are also socializing online - many of them married 
men who are looking for some "excitement." What are your thoughts about such 
online relationships? Is that not cheating as long as it's only online and there's 
no sex involved?  You know, sort of like Jimmy Carter's remark about "lusting in 
his heart". 


Steven Carter:   I think that there is a lot of danger is internet exploration.  
I don't think it's very healthy.  I think it is a way of avoiding critical 
relationship issues.  It suggests that intimacy is missing so unless both of you 
feel really good about it, I can't endorse it.

Lusting in your heart is very different than acting out over the internet.  It's 
one thing to look at someone's picture in a magazine, it's another thing to 
engage that person in an online relationship.  Thoughts are one thing.  A 
relationship, even if it is an anonmymous e-relationship, is still a 
relationship.  That's my opinion.


Froggy4:   So, are you saying I'm OK even though I'm not in a relationship and 
I'm not interested in finding one?


Steven Carter:   Absolutely.


Froggy4:  Thanks :)


Steven Carter:   I have a lot of respect for people who are choosing to not be in 
a relationhip right now  because they have conflicts, or other good reasons.  
Because it's much worse to engage someone else, create hopes and expectations, 
etc.  And the potential hurt.  When you're ready, you'll know.   And then it will 
be coming from a very grounded place.


Dearest:   But what of those already in a relationship who develop personal 
conflicts and the partner isn't understanding or receptive or compassionate? 


Steven Carter:   You only have one option: getting help.  Maybe it will be 
individual therapy.  Or maybe it will be couples therapy.  A good therapist can 
help you decide that very quickly.  But there is no way around that need for 
help. 

The first intervention should always be a therapeutic intervention.  Let someone 
help you sort this out.  Martyrs don't make very good relationships.


Dearest:   Are there specific steps one might take to "heal" after 
a relationship has ended? 


Steven Carter:   Yes. the very first step you must take is accepting that the 
relationship is over.

This is where most people get stuck.  They get stuck in perpetual grieving.  
Questioning.  Going back over old ground, trying to figure out things that could 
have made it different.  Acceptance starts the hardest part of the grieving 
process,  but that process doesn't last forever. It's the hanging on that lasts 
forever, then you are locked in perpetual grieving.

And now I'm the one who has to say goodnight...


Dearest:   Wonderful answers, as always, Steven ...

Steven, thanks for another stimulating chat and for providing some excellent 
strategy we can utilize in improving our relationships.  Everyone, please join me 
in thanking Steven Carter for joining us tonight and do be sure to visit his Web 
sites at http://www.gettingtocommitment.com and http://www.howloveworks.com

Steven Carter:   Thank you.



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Read Steven Carter's first transcript
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Dearest
aka Alice Stamm
Power Surge
Founder, Facilitator, Host


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