(Steven Carter's first visit to Power Surge)

Dearest: My guest tonight has been writing about relationship and commitment issues for more than 15 years and has published 20 books, including the NY Times bestseller, "Men Who Can't Love" ... and "He's Scared, She's Scared", "What Smart Women Know", "Men Like Women Who Like Themselves", "Getting To Commitment" and "This Is How Love Works" and his newest Help! I'm In Love With A Narcissist

S T E V E N C A R T E R . . . once again touches upon the issues of commitment in his newest book, co-authored by Julia Sokol, "Getting To Commitment: Overcoming the 8 Greatest Obstacles To Lasting Connection (And Finding The Courage To Love) - M. Evans & Co., 1998.

His work has been featured in many major publications and he has appeared on hundreds of TV and radio programs as an expert in the area of relationships and commitment.

Steven, a warm welcome to Power Surge :)

You say, "Fear of commitment has reached an epidemic level in our culture." That our relationships are mirroring a "...society that values change..." and "...individuality more than partnership or commitment and perfectionist standards more than compromise."

Have we become so sabotaged by this instant gratification mind-set that unless we can resolve our relationship issues simply by swallowing a pill, we end up in this state you call, "commitmentphobia?"

Steven Carter: Hi, everyone! There is no question that the "state of the union" is a tough one. Commitment fears are on the rise and it is becoming easier and easier to avoid the c-word. I am not saying this is a good thing, but it is our reality. Can we first establish that commitment is supposed to be scary? Supposed to be scary - That is normal. What is NOT normal is the total terror, the acting out, the sabotaging, etc. That is when my work comes in.

Dearest: Steven, how much of your writing is drawn upon your own experience?

Steven Carter: Much of it, of course. How could someone write about the fear of commitment for so many years without a personal investment? I have walked through all of the stages I write about. I was the "poster child" for the problem. Today, I like to think of myself as the "poster child" for the solution.

Dearest: So, with each successive book, is that part of the evolution of Steven?

Steven Carter: That is certainly the way it feels. At first, I wrote about the fear. That was in "Men Who Can't Love." Then, I wrote about "passive solutions"-- how we let ourselves get involved with difficult partners to avoid confronting our own fears of getting close. That was in the book "He's Scared, She's Scared." Finally, I have written about the obstacles that I had to overcome in my own life and that every single person must overcome-men and women-in order to bring commitment into your life.

Dearest: Would you say one of the greatest fears is ending up alone?

Steven Carter: That is certainly a deeply imbedded fear. But that is not what we see on the surface. On the surface we see the opposite:

We see pursuit and panic . . .
We see seduction and rejection . . .
We see picking apart and fault finding.

Dearest: So, the fear of commitment might be a vehicle to avoid rejection?

Steven Carter: Clearly. But don't let that suck you in to someone's drama.

Dearest: Why on earth would we deprive ourselves that way?

Steven Carter: It is terrifying to get close to another human being. Every time we try, we open all of our past wounds. Can you imagine how frightening that must be? We are like supercomputers who store our emotional history and it haunts us with every new relationship.

Dearest: Fascinating. Thank you. Let's go to the queue now. Rascalbrat, please go ahead with your question :)

Rascalbrat: How normal to marry at 17 and 19 and be together 20 yrs with 2 teens?

Steven Carter: Certainly unusual today. But what are you asking?

Rascalbrat: I think today people have no real idea of what they are getting into.

Steven Carter: That may be very true. People rush into relationships for all kinds of reasons. Some are good reasons and some are not. But people are also rushing out for all kinds of reasons, some good, some not.

Rascalbrat: I don't think it is about commitment as much as compatibility and the way raised. Even after 20 years there are signs of noncommitment but it is just stages you go through.

Steven Carter: There are classic signs of a commitment problem. If those signs are present, then it may be something to pay closer attention to. Fast beginnings, for example. Great fantasy stuff, but little reality. Lots of mixed messages.

Dearest: In so many relationships, both partners are out in the work-force. Could part of the problem be that people don't have time to devote to resolving their relationship issues, or even committing to one in the first place, or is that just a cop out?

Steven Carter: Relationships definitely go through stages, but people can be together for twenty or thirty years and never really experience any level of real commitment. Commitmentphobia was ALWAYS a problem in relationships. But now we see it more clearly because it has come out of the closet.

If you're hiding behind your job . . .
If you're hiding behind your computer . . .
If you're hiding behind your newspaper . . .
If you're hiding behind your family . . .

There are all kinds of ways to avoid a deeper connection. It is much easier to hide.

Dearest: Amazing how so many of us hide from the very thing we want!

PianoMary: What can we do to stop hiding like this? My husband works way too hard - and I'm online quite a bit :)

Steven Carter: The very first thing is to acknowledge that it is scary to get close and stay close. Acknowledge it to yourself instead of blaming work, your partner, etc. You have to face the fact that this is scary stuff. Then you can START to do something. But if you're blaming and avoiding you're not going forward.

And to answer another question I see on the screen, yes, I am married. (We do not have any children yet). But I don't just write about my own relationship. I have interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people for these books and talked with thousands more over the last fifteen years.

Dearest: Thank you, Steven. Sue, please go ahead with your question.

Sue: My husband and I have a great commitment to each other, but we do have very separate interests. I feel that this is a special relationship ...and feel that it is also very normal. My question is, are we the kind of people that will stick together forever?

Steven Carter: Separate interests ARE normal, Sue. That is a good thing, a healthy thing. Too many people think you have to have everything in common for the relationship to be right. They are looking for a total merger.

The more emotionally healthy you are, the more you can handle differences: different likes, dislikes, needs, etc. That is all good. People reject good possibilities because the match is not a perfect one and frankly, I see that as a way of avoiding commitment.

Dearest: How does one break the pattern of repeatedly sabotaging his/her relationships?

Steven Carter: First, stop looking outside of yourself. That means you have to stop blaming others. MOST people are still stuck at the blame phase. They still believe it could be different if their partner was different. Even if you say you don't believe this, there is a good chance you still think it silently to yourself. Next come the ghosts - your history. Understanding how your past is keeping you stuck. This is crucial.

Sometimes we just can't go forward without looking first in the rearview mirror. We have to understand how our history of losses is affecting our ability to move forward. Last year's relationship, the year before, ten years before, forty years before. Most people don't understand that our oldest history affects us the most. The things that happened when we were so small are the things that steer us into old age.

Dearest: Thanks, Steven :) Mary, go ahead, please.

PianoMary: Does one of your books give concrete exercises or hints for being able to create better commitments?

Steven Carter: The newest book, I think. That one has the most forward-looking advice. A lot of the books focus on the fear. "Getting To Commitment focuses on solutions. It focuses on movement. I believe movement is possible, I believe commitment is possible.

But there is work to be done for everyone. And it never really ends. So it's a good news/bad news thing. The good news is that it is possible. The bad news is that it isn't easy.

PianoMary: Thanks :)

Dearest: Excellent answer.. thanks, Steven. Cougrwomyn, please go ahead.

Cougrwomyn: Thanks. I do think its so important to know what you don't want also. Not agreeing is not necessarily a sign that you don't want commitment.

Steven Carter: Absolutely.

Dearest: Cougrwomyn. Did you have a specific question?

Cougrwomyn: Oh, sorry, no just a comment. I felt like he was saying compromise was the ultimate thing. I think standing your ground and being respected is the ultimate thing.

Dearest: Oh, okay. Thanks. What steps might the partner who doesn't have a problem committing, take to address the partner who's "commitmentphobic?"

Steven Carter: First, I think everyone has a problem committing. I know you don't want to hear that but it is important to always remember that this is supposed to be scary for everyone. Sometimes the only reason we don't have a problem is because we have found someone who has such a huge problem that we don't notice our own--it gets lost in the craziness. So you have to ask yourself, Why am I with this person in the first place? Am I attracted to this person's fear? Does that fear COMFORT me? And you need to think about that long and hard. Safe partners are the ones who never give you what you say you want.

NEXT > no ultimatums. Ultimatums rarely work because most people can't back them up. You can't get commitment at gunpoint. The absolute best thing you can do is to pull back and evaluate. Your distance opens up possibility. People who are afraid of commitment get very claustrophobic around demands. They feel much better when they see that you have a life, too...that you are not totally dependent on them...that you will not die without them.

Dearest: So, commitmentphobia may well be, for some, the end result of recognizing and trying to avoid, their own bad choices?

Steven Carter: But then I wouldn't call it a phobia. Because if there is a conscious understanding it has a less "phobic" quality. More concern, and uncertainty, and reluctance.

Commitment-phobics tend to be very unconscious about their fear. They swing wild in relationships. Really involved one moment, running scared the next. They have no sense of their own commitment fear. That's why it always the other person who is looking for understanding. It takes a very long time for someone to be able to stop and say, "I've got a commitment problem".

Dearest: Elaborate on your comment in your book, "It's fine to be romantic as long as you can also be pragmatic." Thanks.

Steven Carter: Balance. We all deserve the excitement of love and relationships but you have to have at least one foot touching the floor at all times. We tend to lose ourselves in love: drifting off, not paying attention, not asking questions, not listening to the answers, not believing the answers. This is typical. Being pragmatic means keeping that foot on the floor.

Dearest: Steven, what are the eight greatest obstacles to overcome?

Steven Carter: The first obstacle is BLAME. The second obstacle is GHOSTS (history) We've talked about those two already.

Here's another...The courage to let yourself be known...Revealing the real you. I know this scares many women. They keep big chunks of themselves hidden. Should I continue?

Dearest: Is the sky blue? By all means, please do :)

Steven Carter: The next is anxiety--being controlled by your anxiety.

We talked about FANTASY. That's another biggie...refusal to abandon fantasy.

How about ACCEPTANCE? Acceptance is all about image issues. What we need our partner to reflect.

Bad HABITS, of course. The old stuff we just keep doing.

And the final biggie...The struggle of the SELF:

Self esteem
Self acceptance
Self awareness

All of this gets in the way. Please understand that in the book I have spent forty pages on each of these obstacles, so this is the very abbreviated answer.

VirgilB1: Thanks for sharing, Steve. I just have a comment. It's a comment directed towards the phobia aspect of commitment. Not very many people wish to be involved in an unhealthy relationship and when one recognizes too many red flags in one person, then supposedly they move on you cannot generalize, and say that the person who consciously moves onward is indeed a commitment phobic.

Steven Carter: Absolutely not. And I didn't. Often, the commitmentphobic is the person who DOESN'T move on. More people ignore red flags. Or get excited by red flags or think they can change those flags. I think the person who makes a balanced decision to move on because there are too many flags is a person who is moving toward something better. If you are always involved with phobic partners, you have to ask yourself why?

Ezgoer4evr: Thank you, Dearest. I was trying to understand the subtleties between red flags and phobias. How much is a gut check?

Steven Carter: Gut check...that's interesting...it depends on how healthy our gut is...

Sometimes, we are running from good things and sometimes we are running from bad. The more we clean up the gut the more we can trust that our instinct to say goodbye is a healthy one. So it is complicated. Big surprise! If you're leaving because of abuse, that's a healthy thing. If you're leaving because it's not perfect, that may just be a fear thing.

Cougrwomyn: Earlier you were saying what a commitment person responds too. I think we need to be careful to encourage people to bend to this by changing their approach if they don't respond with commitment ..walk away if that is what you seek.

Steven Carter: I understand. Of course, walking away makes it easier for the fearful to follow so in a way it is a trap. Is that what you are suggesting?

Cougrwomyn: No. I am saying don't follow. Know what you want and what you will accept and say goodbye if you need to.

Steven Carter: Agreed

VirgilB1: BRAVO

Dearest: I imagine we can be involved in a relationship with a person who's got commitment issues that may be so subtle, we don't even see them. Or they may be masked. Your thoughts?

Steven Carter: True, but they will ultimately surface as the relationship progresses or doesn't progress. But the truth is that commitment fears are rarely that subtle and most people with big commitment problems let you know very quickly. Sometimes, they tell you right out and you need to say "thanks you for your honesty and have a nice life" but of course there is a lot of gray and the only way to be more clear about that is to be more clear about you - to be more healthy, more self-protective, to have more insight into your own emotional history, to have more insight into the history of your choices, to become an expert on yourself.

Because...

THE HEALTHIER YOU GET
THE HEALTHIER YOU BRING INTO YOUR LIFE
YOU CAN COUNT ON THAT

Healing your own emotional history -- taking your own baggage seriously and making a commitment to 'unpack'-- opens the door to healthier behavior today, and healthier choices. As you heal, you become less attracted to problem personalities and unworkable scenarios. You are less tolerant of abusive behaviors. You start noticing people you never noticed before because you've neutralized that "moth to a flame thing" that keeps leading to the same bad ending. We repeat the past until we heal the past. That is why I am such a strong proponent of good therapy.

Dearest: What about people who can be committed and devoted to their careers, hobbies, children, et al., but can't last in relationships longer than, say, 7-8 years? I mean, can one only be "selectively commitmentphobic" when it comes to relationships?

Steven Carter: Relationships are definitely the hardest thing to commit to. If you can do the rest, you certainly have potential but something about your connection process must not be working. This is all about connection, levels of connection. The years should bring you in deeper. If you are "coasting", then you have reached your place of resistance.

Dearest: Interesting, Steven. Thanks. We've actually gone over the time. . . because this has been so stimulating. Cougrwomyn, go ahead. This will be the last question. Steven, you must come back to continue.

Steven Carter: Happy to. I'll practice my typing in the meantime, and my spelling.

Cougrwomyn: Just another comment. I think relationships are the easiest thing to commit to if you are healthy and clear about what you want. Not sooooo scary:)

Steven Carter: I have to agree again. Being married is so easy now. It wasn't easy getting here. I have to be very clear about that, but today it is the easiest and most natural thing in my life. Sometimes it's hard to believe it was so difficult for so long. But I know that it was and I know that it wasn't magic that changed everything and it wasn't suddenly finding 'the right person'. It was getting serious about my fear and getting to work. That's how I got to commitment and I know it is how everyone else can. Probably the ONLY way.

Dearest: Steven, thank you for joining us in Power Surge to field our questions about relationships and commitment.

Anyone interested in asking additional questions of Steven Carter, will be able to do so shortly on the Power Surge Web site's "Ask The Relationship Expert" page.

Be sure to read "Getting To Commitment."

Steven Carter: Thank YOU!

Dearest: Steven, wonderful answers - fascinating subject. thanks so much. I hope you'll come back to visit us again very soon.

Steven Carter: Thank you. I hope so too. So long, everyone.