Dearest:   Tonight's guest is Jill Brooke, Editor-in-chief of Avenue Magazine, a 
Daily News columnist and a former CNN correspondent whose articles  have appeared 
in The New York Times, USA Today, Family Circle and Ladies Home Journal.

Jill started studying grief therapy after the death of her father.  Two years 
ago, a near-death experience triggered her decision to  examine how loss can be 
transformative. Her experience and research led her to the writing of "Don't Let 
Death Ruin Your Life." 

Jill, it's a pleasure to welcome you to Power Surge :) Through your interviews, 
what did you find are the most common ways in which people allow the death of a 
loved one to ruin their lives? 


Jill Brooke:   Well, it is the culture that creates havoc on our healing and ruins our 
ability to heal. First of all, I am saying that Freud's model of grief - followed 
by most therapists - is that to heal you have to cut ties and form new attachments 
as though our loved ones should be discarded like tissue...we must have continued 
connections with our loved ones and this book shows us the many ways we can 
connect.

One last point..often what hurts is that we feel so helpless after a death..we 
miss the person so much but we have few outlets to discuss our loved ones..this 
book is trying to change that.


Dearest:   Mare, go ahead with your question.


Mare:   It hurts so bad. A big part of me has been ripped away. 


Jill Brooke:   It does hurt so much and that never goes away,  but here are some 
suggestions. 

First of all, think of the ways that your loved one impacted you..do you love 
mystery novels, french cooking ..think of the ways you are like that 
person. Also, keep things of theirs close by, including pictures and find ways 
to bring them into discussion. That's the hardest part. It's not that the 
culture is resistant to talking about loved ones. We talk about deceased 
celebrities, Marilyn Monroe, JFK, Kurt Cobain, etc., and even project how they 
would handle modern day problems. But why is it considered unresolved grief if we 
mention a wise saying that your dad said or your brother. We have to make our 
loved ones stars in our lives and when we realize that we can have continued 
connections, then we start to think about. There weren't many pix of dad. Are 
there many of me? Did I write letters to friends, so there is documentation? 
As Virginia Wolf said, if it's not documented it didn't happen, so we have 
to simultaneously connect to our loved ones and their influence in our lives 
and then think how they would want us to live and what wehave learned from 
them.  


Mare:   I'm missing the point I can't "HEAR."  How can we still connect? No one 
else in the family will talk about the hole left.  


Jill Brooke:   That happens all the time and it is terribly frustrating, but it 
is your job to be your loved one's historian.


Dearest:   Let me see if I understand -- the transformation you speak of begets 
healing and this healing is, in itself,  a form of grieving the death of a loved 
one? 


Jill Brooke:   Because if you don't talk about him or her, then she is truly 
dead...but when we do talk about our loved one, they are with us...the trick I 
have found is to discuss them in a loving way that obviously brings you pleasure 
so people won't worry that the mere mention of their name will cause you 
discomfort. 

I will share a story with you. One day I told a friend that my dad liked James 
Bond movies. Immediately they shuffled their feet, moved their eyes around, showing 
that it was clearly uncomfortable..but then I rephrased it. My dad loved Sean 
Connery. I wonder what he would have thought of Pierce Brosnan. Then it provoked 
a conversation about leading men and our fathers. See the difference? It's how you 
say it.


Mare:   I live in her house and my dad is in a nursing home and keeps asking for 
mom. He doesn't know how to greive and I can't help him.


Jill Brooke:   You can help him.


Mare:   I want to but I can't help myself 


Jill Brooke:   No, here is the response: there are two issues.  One is finding a 
place for a loved one who's no longer there and the other is guilt, which is what 
is often called complicated grief syndrome, which means simply that you have to 
forgive yourself and realize there was nothing you could do.


Mare:   I know that, but it still HURTS & has taken my life with her


Dearest:   Jill?  Do you remember the story in the book about the woman whose 
father died during Christmas and she refused to celebrate until she came to a 
stunning revelation that transformed her?


Jill Brooke:   Yes, she realized that the pain was preventing her from enjoying 
the traditions that would be the mother's legacy to her children...that's why 
it's important to celebrate someone's life.


Dearest:   She remembered her father loved decorating the Christmas tree,  
Didn't that transform her?


Jill Brooke:   Yes, it was connecting to things she did. Her son realized that by 
doing that, by decorating the tree and even cooking the same meal, it connected 
him to his mother and helped him enjoy the holiday.  His mother had died and the 
holidays seemed empty without her..now all the children make a point to 
collectively cook a special dish of their mom's to connect to her.


Dearest:   I thought that was a wonderful story you used as an example. 


Mare:   I must be stuck I can't do that because it touches a part that is searing 
with pain.  then I'm going back---I can't even see thru my tears now to read what 
you said


Jill Brooke:   Some people take baby steps, some take giant steps, some take 
backward steps. It's just important that you are trying to find a way to keep her 
in your life and that you are feeling whatever you're feeling..the pain also 
shows how much you loved her. Let it rip through your body like a hurricane 
write what you're feeling...the unfairness. What you miss, what you wish you 
could have done..when you are ready, and it takes time, you can take the steps to 
try to find an outlet for your grief to use the passion of grief to enhance 
yourself, and maybe the world.  

In my book I show that those who had early losses were three times as likely to 
be achievers than the general public. It's because they learn to value everyday 
and find ways to keep the memory of their loved ones alive. Michelangelo with 
art, Paul McCartney with music, etc. 


Karen:   I am having a hard time dealing with the fact that I was alone with my 
dad when he died.  My mom wouldn't come out to the hospital


Jill Brooke:   Karen, your mother made her choices. Maybe they weren't the right 
choices, but they were hers. our parents teach us who we want to be and who we 
don't want to be. Take what you feel and make sure that you would never do the 
same because obviously it caused her daughter great pain.


Karen:   I know it was probably her disease (dementia) that was part of it - but 
they were married for 52 years. 


Dearest:   Can the holding onto the negative feelings be one's way of dealing 
with guilt associated with the death of a loved one, rather than fostering and 
nurturing positive results that can come from any loss? Does it ease the guilt 
associated with death that makes one remain negative? 


Jill Brooke:   I'm sure it was.  That's a very good question and an insightful 
one. Yes, some people want to hold on the pain as punishment for something they 
may have not done when the person was alive..that's why in the book I have a 
chapter on how to deal with this unresolved grief. It's important to say it and 
write it because once it is expressed - and I mean by writing - then you can 
clarify your thoughts instead of them swimming in your head and causing havoc. 
It helps you structure you feelings and that is very helpful.


Dearest:   I think many of us do that in many areas of our lives, not only 
through death. What are your thoughts on the communications done by James Von 
Praague and Sylvia Browne? 


Jill Brooke:   In the book, I have a chapter called goodbye is not forever..I 
think they are very insightful but I don't think you need a psychic, medium, 
rabbi or priest to connect to your loved ones. Having interviewed hundreds of 
hospice workers bereavement specialists etc. I have found that they were 
universal in their belief that there is something else.  

I feel that our intuition - which everyone recognizes as a source of information 
from unknown source - is usually valid.  Like Michael who had a dream that his 
mom told him not to trust a law partner or Debbie who felt her sister's presence 
when she was thinking of going out with a guy and had the urge for veal picata. 
The trick is listening to these frequencies - and trusting them.  It's like a 
radio signal.  You go outside of your town and the radio signal is less clear but 
still exists.  You have to listen in quiet -- answers then come.


Karen:   Did you get my question? 


Jill Brooke:   Yes, I did.  Deep in your heart, you know that's not true..the 
best way to connect to your mom is to celebrate the things she taught you, the 
things she wanted for you, the things she enjoyed...she wouldn't want you to be 
unhappy but to still enjoy the things you did together..just think of her doing 
them with you even though she's not physically there but she is spiritually 
there...she really is!


Karen:   It's hard to celebrate when she gets so ugly when I talk to her -- she 
is not like my dad was.


Jill Brooke:   Karen, accept it and make it as pleasant as possible by talking to 
her about things you loved doing, then think of her as she was and don't let her 
current state warp your perception. Her time is coming.


Karen:   Dealing with it on a daily basis makes it almost impossible to remember 
her back then -- she's always been verying demanding.


Dearest:   Harper, go ahead, please.


Harper:   As a hospice harpist, I find that the families who can find beauty in 
the death process, can mend family feuds.  Love becomes the focus.  Does your 
book bring in other cultural perspectives of death?


Jill Brooke:   Harper, what a lovely question. Yes, considering my background as 
a journalists for CNN, I did extensive research trying to find how other cultures 
dealt with death and you are correct. Many have wonderful rituals that are 
inclusive and then prevent a fear of death since I believe people are less scared 
of dying as they  are of being forgotten.  For example, in Africa, the elder man 
at the table for special family events will  pour a small drop of the drink on 
the floor to summon the spirits of ancestors and welcome them and their wisdom.
It's a nice tradition that shows continuity.


Dearest:   You know, everyone, Jill Brooke's book, "Don't Let Death Ruin Your Life" 
covers a wide variety of life's issues, not just death, but general 
transformation... recovering from trauma, disappointment, etc. I recommend it 
highly. 


Harper:   Your book sounds exquisite.  I am anxious to get it and encourage our 
hospice team to do the same.  Thank you.


Jill Brooke:   Thank you so very much, Harper.


Karen:   I feel like I have 2 children - my son, teenager and my mom, pre-teen brat.


Mare:   How is celebrating helpful?


Jill Brooke:   Sometimes we're so attached to the pain of the loss that we forget 
what the person did when they were living and how our interests our attitudes and 
our philosophies were shaped by them. Loss also teaches us to be more 
adventurous because we know we have no time to waste.  Maybe your mom wouldn't go 
on a trip and then you realize it was too late.   It's really really important to 
appreciate every person in your life every day in a small way.  This way you have 
no regrets.

I think of John Kennedy, Jr. regarding this. Everyone always says how tragic his 
death was because he could have been president like his father.  But then I think 
of all the people I know who are keenly aware of their mortality because of his 
death and that tells me he has given people a greater gift than a four year term.  
He made people appreciate the simple daily pleasures.  See what I mean?  It's how 
you look at life.  We're here to learn and to share our wisdom and make the world 
a better place.  If no one died, progress would come to a screeching halt.  
Intellectually we understand that but it's hard to look at it emotionally.  But 
when we keep continued connections and realize we're planting seeds to be 
memorable ourselves, the fear of death diminishes.


Dearest:   And, Jill, isn't it really important to remember that those who've 
left us wouldn't want to see us miserable all the time, but resuming our lives? 
Resuming our lives doesn't mean we ever have to forget them because they're 
always with us in spirit.  


Jill Brooke:   Correct.  That's the trick, keeping them in our lives and that 
includes talking about them and finding ways to keep them mentioned during 
holidays and to your kids, etc.


Mare:   But she was unhappy when she was alive. There is no one else I love that 
much and being advent. is suicidal at this point for me.


Jill Brooke:   Mare, I'm catching a very important piece of info but what was 
your original question? 


Jeanne:   my mother-in-law is very sick but won't go to the doctor thinking she 
will never come home again, anything I can do?I'm not sure she would myself but 
hate to see her not try to live longer 


Jill Brooke: Jeanne, she is afraid of death though it may now be inevitable.  
It's important for you to take away her fear..and the way to do that is to talk 
to her, about all you love about her and what she thinks about the afterlife.  I'm 
serious. Too often, we are so busy trying to find the next cure that we never 
have the important discussions. It's liberating for someone to discuss them 
especially a mom who feels her role is always to protect you from pain. She'll 
feel relief after a few moments of discomfort to honestly dicuss the 
conversations that really count.


Dearest:   MsKitty, go ahead, please.  Excellent answers, Jill :)


MsKitty:   I can see that what we're talking about tonight can be applied to 
grieving the parts of my life I'm leaving behind at menopause.


Dearest:   Very true, MsKitty.


Jeanne:   It's so hard for me lately because I've had a few brushes with death 
myself in the last few months


Jill Brooke:   Jeanne, then you have something in common..you know how fragile 
life is and how imporatnt it is to live every moment..maybe do a project where 
you say...let's write a little note about what we love about everyone in our 
family...this then will provoke - I promise - a wonderful exchange --but don't 
say what you don't like about someone..start it from a loving place..then it can 
help clarify one's life and special moments.


Jeanne:   Can I say bad things about just one person:) ? sorry bad sense of humor 
sometimes. 



Jill Brooke:   Sure, Jeanne, but don't start out that way.  Then you can make it 
a funny exchange..the most annoying habits of family members..but once the love 
is discussed first, then the rest follows.


Jeanne:   Thank you I will try my best :) 


Dearest:   Let me see if I understand -- the transformation you speak of begets 
healing and this healing is, in itself,  a form of grieving the death of a loved 
one? 


Jill Brooke:   Transformation is a multi-layered task. It' s called grief work because 
it is WORK.  The successful griever must ask herself, what have I lost? What do I still 
have? And what is possible for me? These are the questions to be explored and where 
transformation can take place. Moving on also means learning from the life of the deceased.
And that can mean an editing process. Things you may have liked, things you didn't.
Hence, it can be enlightening and alter your course to a better road, maybe.


Dearest:   Jeanne, go ahead.


Jeanne:   I also just lost my cat. I loved her dearly.  Does the same apply?  


Jill Brooke:   Of course.  Grief is only an emotion that says you loved someone 
or something.  It is something to be proud of.


Jeanne:   It's so painful still.


Jill Brooke:   It will always be painful, but instead of denying the pain or 
trying to swat it away, experience it, let it go through you and then it will 
flow out..the biggest misconception about grief is that it's something you get 
over and then you're done with it. So many things can retrigger the pain, but if 
we accept that it will alter us forever and be  a part of us, we learn to live 
with it and hopefully learn from it as well.


Dearest:   During your research, did you notice any common theme or problem most 
people had in coping with the death of a loved one?


Jeanne:   I want to get another cat but don't think I ever can get over this one.  
thank you I will cry like I feel I should then? 


Jill Brooke:   Dearest, yes, most people said they couldn't talk about their 
loved ones with friends or family. Like water building behind a dam, we need the 
release of talking, not talking causes pain to build and it festers into 
depression, sadness and even illness..talk about your loved one and they are 
still with you.


Jeanne:   Yes, it sure does and I am tired of being brave.


Jill Brooke:   The trick, as I said before, is how you package your conversation.  
Let people know it gives you pleasure to mention your loved one or somehting 
funny or wise they said, and they will welcome conversation..such as my father 
had this saying...etc...then it will also encourage other conversation..another 
tip I give in my book is to go on treasure hunts..speak to people who knew your 
loved one and ask them what they remember..what this does is give you fresh 
anecdotes which is like being with them again.

I learned a great story about my father and a girlfriend I hadn't known he had 
and the amusing tale I treasure.  It's as though I got to meet him again.


Mare:   Mskitty hit a point for me also about the menopause, the losses, changes  
and then the death of a part of me at the same time. And having the dad like the 
child someone else mentioned.  All those questions you just mentioned are all 
negative to me. I don't know what/who I am or wanna be. I don't see a future. 
The pain settles like a cloud and doesn't let up.  


Jill Brooke:   Menopause is a loss of sorts because it brings with it that chill 
of mortality and you wonder what is left for me, is this all there is. What 
lies ahead for me..the truth is that your attitudes will impact every day of your 
life.


Dearest:   Jill, my final question... you did so many interviews, can you give us 
some examples of how people transformed their loss into motivation?  I know one 
was John Walsh, Adam's father.


Jill Brooke:   Okay, Dearest, here we go.  Yes, John Walsh turned his feelings of 
helplessness when his child was killed and became an advocate for missing 
children that has saved thousands of lives. Susan Brinker promised her sister she 
would work to find a cure for cancer and the pain she said motivated her and 
helping others gave her meaning to the pain.  Ken Burns, the documentarian, says 
he makes these great shows to wake up the dead in honor of his mother so that no 
life is wasted.  Same with Michelangelo whose mom died when he was six...all art 
is really the desire to create immortality to give life to what was lost or what 
we fear losing.

The premise of the book is to use the passion of your grief...the powerful 
emotions and find an outlet...get involved with a charity if your dad died of 
cancer, if your brother was killed in a car accident, and he loved baseball, 
create a baseball scholarship at a school...find ways to use the passion of grief 
and enhance your life and then maybe the world as well...never doubt the passion 
of a few commited people to make a change..in fact, it's the only time that 
change has ever happened.  It takes passion.


Dearest:   I think, in my own way, I am trying to do this with Power Surge. I 
have focused on helping others while I have been through a horrific menopause. If 
I focused on it every moment instead of focusing on others, I think I"d have left 
this planet by now. I guess there are many areas of our lives where we can turn 
negatives into postiives.


Jill Brooke:   Absolutely...when you turn your sense of helplessness into being 
helpful, it is empowering because your realize your experience then wasn't for 
naught..some good has come out of the terrible.


Dearest:   And menopause, although not death, can be mortifying for some women... 
an awful experience. Yes, thanks, Jill. Last question goes to Mare. Go ahead.


Mare:   what my mom wanted for me was a happy marriage. & I want that for myself 
but I can't just run out and get a life  


Jill Brooke:   Your mom wanted you to be happy and thought that a marriage was 
the recipe..the truth is that marriages require the luck of meeting someone and 
that person being a healthy kind person.  But you can still achieve what she 
wanted by finding ways to have a meaningful life and touching others with your 
kindness and wisdom...volunteer at a church, at a school, read to the 
elderly...have a meaningful life..cook dinner for a family who needs it..as your 
kindness has a ripple effect, more people will come into your life and it won't 
be a lonely one...if you just sit home and do nothing, you can't meet anyone and 
your loneliness marinates...go out, take a cooking class, a reading class.  Go to 
a museum...embrace life as a gift...


Dearest:   And take your mother along with you in spirit -- you know, she is 
always with you, Mare.


Mare:  Yes your right about the marriage.  well I already work with special ed 
kids.


Jill Brooke:   Then you are already a special person...but be adventurous with 
your interests and free time.


Mare:  But I don't feel gifted I feel like failure & incomplete


Jill Brooke:   Mare


Mare:  Yes


Jill Brooke:   Why do you feel like a failure? you already told me you work with 
special ed kids and you know you make an impact on them..why don't you own that 
and feel good about it...why don't you allow yourself to feel proud of what YOU 
DO DO...in the book ther eis a section on positive framing...instead, of how you 
phrased that question, I would urge you to read the book and then say, I don't 
allow failures to define me because we all have gifts to pursue and do the best 
we can with what we have.


Mare:  I could not fulfill my moms wishes or mine


Dearest:   Jill, thank you for a fascinating and informative chat. Be sure to 
pick up a copy of Jill Brooke's "Don't Let Death Ruin Your Life" 
(Dutton) 



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Dearest
aka Alice Stamm
Power Surge
Founder, Facilitator, Host


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