(Bronwyn Fox's 3rd visit to Power Surge)

Dearest:   Tonight's guest is BRONWYN FOX, the author of "Power Over Panic: 
Freedom From Panic/Anxiety Related Disorders" and the The 2nd
edition, Power Over Panic, plus "Working through Panic: Your Step-by-Step 
Guide to Overcoming Panic/Anxiety Related Disorders" (which you can get on Bronwyn's
Web site and finally, the wonderful audio cassette, Anxiety Panic: Taking Back the Power

Having been housebound with panic disorder/agoraphobia for over two years, Bronwyn 
was able to overcome it through the power of Mindfulness Meditation. This has helped 
her gain control over her fears and she's been involved in the area of Anxiety 
Disorders since. 

Bronwyn co-founded PADA, Australia's Panic Anxiety Disorder Association. Her award-
winning Panic and Anxiety Management Workshop is in every capital city in Australia. 
She also does workshops online on her Web site, The Panic Anxiety Hub. Leading 
anxiety disorder specialists have assessed her workshop to be 85% effective for 
people who experience an Anxiety Disorder. 

It's wonderful to have you back in Power Surge, Bronwyn :) 


Bronwyn Fox:  Thank you Dearest 


Dearest:  Bronwyn, we live in a drug-oriented, quick-fix society. It seems that 
people will swallow a pill to alleviate their anxiety and/or panic, rather than to 
devote time to learning to understand what's causing these feelings. What would you 
say to someone who wants to stop medicating and start gaining control of their 
feelings? 


Bronwyn Fox:  The best approach is to work out a withdrawal program with their doctor 
and withdraw slowly and while doing so, they can begin to use meditation and a 
mindfulness cognitive technique to help them learn how to control their panic 
and anxiety themselves.


MrsUnderstood:  Could you give a brief description of how cognitive behavioral 
therapy works and it's success rate?  


Bronwyn Fox:  CBT teaches people how to isolate and see the thoughts that are 
creating their panic and anxiety.  It also teaches people to learn to think in a 
more realistic way about the various fears that people have.  People do need to 
practice it on an ongoing basis if not it is not as effective as it could be.  One 
study showed that people using CBT while they were withdrawing  from tranquillizers 
had an 85% success rate compared to 35% success rate in people who did not use CBT. 
Our program in its government evaluation showed it was 85% successful also. 


Freckles:  Sorry guess I don't know what I'm doing.  I am perimenopausal, took Paxil 
and hormones at the same time and had suicidal thoughts, After 15 months I quit the 
Paxil, withdrawal made me really sick. I don't tolerate medications well. Still 
struggling with panic, have hypothyroid. Any suggestions?


Bronwyn Fox:  Freckles, I am not sure how long it has been since you stopped taking 
Paxil, but people can have withdrawal problems with this drug. Withdrawal does need 
to be done very, very slowly under medical supervision.  I am biased towards either 
a mindfulness cognitive technique or CBT because I know that people can make long 
term recovery and this is something you may wish to consider. 


HSpec:  I don't have a question. I just wanted to thank you, Bronwyn, for the wonderful 
advice that you gave last year at this time for helping my students after Sept. 11th. 
You were right on target. Thank you ever so much. 


Dearest:  That's lovely of you to say, Hedda :)  


Bronwyn Fox:  Thank you so much. I have often thought of you and wondered how you and 
your students were. 


HSpec:  Could not have gotten through last year without Bronwyn.  We are all doing 
well.


VikingLady:  What about the studies that have proven anxiety is a chemical  
imbalance. TIME Magazine had an interesting article concerning that topic. 
Cognitive therapy can help those cases? 


Bronwyn Fox:  The chemical imbalance theory has still not been definitely proved. 
Even the American Psychiatric Association says this if they knew exactly what the 
chemical imbalance was, everyone would be on specific medication and living happily 
ever after.  At the moment there are many, many people who cannot take the 
medications that are said to fix the chemical imbalance. 


Johnndinj:  How come I can go months without attacks and then get them daily again?  


Bronwyn Fox:  Two factors. If you have not lost your fear of them, you can go into 
"remission" and during stressful times they can reappear and the fear of them keeps 
them going.  If you have learnt to lose your fear of them and know how to control 
your thoughts, if you do have another panic attack during stressful times you will 
then need to look at bringing in your cognitive skills so that you can prevent any 
escalation of them. 


Misstykcal:  What is the best way to wean off SSRI's and other anti-depressants 
without having to go through more anxiety attacks? I have read and also heard that 
anxiety is caused by a chemical imbalance and can only be controlled by using 
medications, and the meds can help greatly when a person uses them, but when quitting 
the anxiety comes back tenfold.  Also, serotonin has to do with mood so is this 
actually where the imbalance lies. 


Bronwyn Fox:  As I said before, many many people are not able to use not just the 
SSRIs, but any of the anti-anxiety medication because of side effects. 

In withdrawing from an SSRI or any other anti anxiety drug it does need to be done 
very, very slowly under medical supervision.  The increased panic and anxiety some 
people feel as they withdraw is a result of withdrawal problems.  The USA FDA issued 
a withdrawal warning for Paxil in February of this year so that the withdrawal can be 
done very, very slowly to minimize withdrawal effects. 


Dearest:  Bronwyn, I've had the good fortune of participating in two of your online 
Mindfulness Panic Anxiety Management Workshops. I know you've had great success with
your offline workshops. What sort of results have you had by those participating in 
your online sessions? 


Bronwyn Fox:  We are still getting ready for a formal evaluation, but from the 
feedback we have had, they work!! 


Dearest:  Well, I can certainly attest to that. You know I think you're priceless :) 


Sturdywoman:  I have had problems with anxiety on and off in my life, but 
perimenopause seems to have intensified its effect so it sometimes feels like I 
can't get a handle on it. Is this something that you can help with? 


Bronwyn Fox:  I am blushing LOL :) 

Yes, as I was experiencing panic disorder I had surgically induced menopause and 
meditation and mindfulness worked for me with both. 


Sturdywoman:  Thanks 


Heatherthora:  I have had anxiety and fears all of my life. I started taking 
Clonazepam and Celexa in l998 due to severe uncontrolled fears and anxiety from 
Benign Positional Vertigo, severe dizziness, imbalance etc. Celexa has helped me 
greatly to eliminate some fears. I don't ever want to get off it. 


Bronwyn Fox:  And this is fine. Even though I am biased towards mindfulness and CBT 
the bottom line is we all need to do what is right for us as individuals. This is 
most important. 


Shar:  Are aches and pains anxiety related? My doctor seems to think so. I take a low 
dose of Xanax .25 which helps, but would like to quit taking them.  My doctor said not 
to worry at such low dose.  I feel I am addicted.  Could I be at such a low dose? 


Bronwyn Fox:  It is a low dose. Xanax is a short acting tranquillizer and stays in 
your body for 4-6 hours, if you have become addicted to it you can experience 
additional panic and anxiety every 4-6 hours and these are withdrawal effects.  
If this is happening for you, then you can discuss this with your doctor. 

In regards to aches and pains, this is very common for people with an anxiety 
disorder.  We always ask people to check this with their doctor and once they 
confirm that it is a result of your panic and anxiety it can help in reducing your 
fear. 


Misstykcal:  Just wanted to comment on Paxil. I have a friend who had severe 
reactions with Paxil. She went into convulsions and was sick for days. You really 
didn't answer my previous question concerning serotonin. Also, what can you do to 
normalize the serotonin naturally? 


Bronwyn Fox:  As I said before, the chemical imbalance theory has not been definitely 
proven and this is very apparent in the number of people with an anxiety disorder 
who cannot use the SSRIs or other anti depressants. 


Misstykcal:  You mentioned that fear is a factor in anxiety attacks. I do not fear 
the attacks but get angry when they happen and try to breath through them. So, why 
then do they keep happening? 


Bronwyn Fox:  While I do believe there is a biological factor, I also know that we can 
control our panic and anxiety through meditation, mindfulness or another cognitive 
techniques. 


Dearest:  Bronwyn, what sort of statistics are there regarding how many people 
suffer from panic attacks/disorder? 


Bronwyn Fox:  Ten per cent of the population has an anxiety disorder and this is 
shown in studies in the USA, Australia and the UK. 


Dearest:  Amazing it's not higher, what with the state of the world right now.  


Bronwyn Fox:  I agree and I think the figure would be higher now.


Johnndinj:  Are anxiety and depression linked in some manner? 


Bronwyn Fox:  Many people with an anxiety disorder do develop depression as a result 
of their anxiety disorder.  In times past and still today many people can be 
diagnosed with depression and their primary anxiety disorder overlooked.  Some 
people may have depression first and then develop panic and anxiety, but from what 
I have seen over the years for many people their anxiety disorder happens first 
followed by depression.


Cranky:  About six weeks ago I had a hysterectomy.  I am 44 years old. I was 
wondering if I did not have any hot flashes yet, can I still get them? 


Dearest:  Bronwyn's area of expertise is anxiety/panic, but she may want to address
the question.  


Bronwyn Fox:  It is difficult to say. One thing I would suggest is don't go looking 
for them!  Take your recovery as it comes and work with any symptoms when they 
happen and not a moment before. There's also lots of information on Dearest's 
Power Surge site. 


Dearest:  Wonderful answer. As they say, seek and ye shall find.


Bronwyn Fox: True, Dearest. 


Dearest:  Cranky, not every woman who has a hysterectomy has immediate menopausal
symptoms. You may be one of the lucky ones. 

 
Cranky:  Dearest, thanks for your response. 


Dearest:  You're welcome, Cranky. E.mail me at Dearest@aol.com and 
I'll send you some information. 


Cranky:  I will, Dearest, and thanks again. 


Dearest:  You're very welcome, Cranky :) 


MARSBAR:  Do panic attacks and high blood pressure go together? I will be fine for a 
months and then get a bout of both. 


Bronwyn Fox:  This is a very variable question.  Many people with panic disorder 
actually have low blood pressure which may go higher when they have a panic attack. 
Some people can have high blood pressure and panic attacks together, but if they are 
linked, there is no research as yet to suggest it. But, meditation can also help with 
high blood pressure. 


Dearest:  Bronwyn, does everyone who has Agoraphobia experience panic attacks?  I've 
often wondered about that. 


Bronwyn Fox:  Yes Dearest.  Agoraphobia is now defined as a fear of having a panic 
attack or panic like symptoms in situations or places where people feel they cannot 
get help. Agoraphobia is now secondary to anxiety disorders and is not a primary 
diagnosis. 


Shar:  Is CBT something you can learn yourself or do you need help from a 
professional?  


Bronwyn Fox:  We always prefer that people work with someone because often times if 
we are trying to do this ourselves, we may not see the wood from the trees on 
occasion and a therapist can help point the way clearly. 


Dearest:  Bronwyn, we're going overtime. Can you stay a little longer to answer the 
questions in the queue? 


Bronwyn Fox:  Yes Dearest.  This is fine.


Dearest:  Thank you, dear Bronwyn :) You have just saved me from a panic attack. 
LOL! 


Bronwyn Fox:  LOL Ms. Prevention! 


Misstykcal:  What causes the inner shaking one gets when having an anxiety attack. 
It this due to adrenalin? Also, can anxiety make hot flashes worse? I seem to get 
them if I am getting anxious. I have also developed high cholesterol which is 
something I have never had to deal with in my life. I was told stress can raise both 
blood pressure and cholesterol. Sorry if I am asking something you already answered 
but I left my computer for a minute. 


Bronwyn Fox:  Yes it can be adrenalin, but I also had this inner shaking during 
valium withdrawals and it was very odd, it was as though each organ was shaking at a 
separate rate.  I think anxiety can make the hot flashes worse because when we fear 
them we are adding in adrenalin which increases our fear and round and round we go. 


Misstykcal:  I do not fear the anxiety.  The shaking for me came when I was not on 
any meds. 


Bronwyn Fox:  Do you know what is causing your anxiety? It is good that you don't but 
because anxiety is present when adrenaline is still being released. 


Misstykcal:  It felt like a freight train rushing through my body. That is why I 
wondered about adrenalin.  I believe hormones.  This only happened at night. 


Bronwyn Fox:  Many people who have panic disorder can have a number of sensations 
moving through the body this includes a burning heat, a burning cold heat, an 
electric shock sensation, a vibration, and with these types of panic attacks we have 
found that these are usually induce by the ability to dissociate that is we can 
unknowingly move into a trance state. 


Misstykcal:  I was going through a stressful time,  I had a cold rush when this 
happened and my body shook like I was freezing.  I could not stop it and it would 
last about 20 minutes each time without anxiety. 


Bronwyn Fox:  If you email me, I will point you to our web pages that discuss this. 


Shoshona:  I'm 57 years old and have suffered with hyperventilation and panic 
attacks since I was a young child. I'm wondering if I could ever overcome this 
disorder. I've had many years of therapy with much success but I'm still plagued 
with this. I've ordered your book and looking forward to some techniques. Could you 
give me one technique to try tonight? 


Bronwyn Fox:  Yes, no matter how long you have had the disorder you can recover.  In 
my other book Working through Panic I use extracts from a former client of mine who 
had the disorder for over 50 years.  She has now recovered. 


Dearest:  Shoshana is asking if you could give her one technique she could try 
tonight, Bronwyn. 


Shoshona:  That's extremely encouraging.


Bronwyn Fox:  Wow! The techniques we teach are simple, but you need the accompanying 
framework for them to be successful.  What I will say is if you can try and let your 
panic and anxiety happen and try and not buy into your anxiety panic thoughts this 
is easier said than done and usually people do need to be taught how to do this but 
see how you with it.


Shoshona:  Can I be "taught" through your book? 


Bronwyn Fox:  Yes, the basics are there for you to begin to practice this. 



Dearest:  I learned it from Bronwyn's online Mindfulness Panic
Anxiety Management Workshops, Shoshana. 

Remember, Bronwyn, separating the thinker from the thought? 


Bronwyn Fox:  Exactly right, Dearest! 


Beans:  What do you mean when you say "mindfulness"? This is the first time in here 
and I have not heard that term used.


Bronwyn Fox:  Mindfulness is a cognitive technique that is different to the normal 
cognitive techniques.  Mindfulness is the practice of awareness and learning to work 
with the thoughts that create panic and anxiety and it is passing all of its 
clinical trials very successfully both in the USA and in the UK. We have been 
teaching this for 15 years and now it is becoming part of mainstream therapy in the 
USA and the UK and soon, hopefully Australia.  


TenseRider:  I'm 53 and I've had panic attacks and some depression most of my adult 
life. Now my daughter, age 20, is showing the same sort of symptoms. I hate to see 
her have to resort to drugs, like me with Paxil and Xanax. She's away at school in 
Florida (I'm in Connecticut) any suggestions for her? I think I need to order your 
book for both of us.  


Bronwyn Fox:  My book will help you both, but it would be so good for her to see a 
CBT therapist because there is so much she can do to prevent any escalation into a 
full blown disorder. If you email me or Dearest I will give you the referrals to 
therapists in the USA. 


TenseRider:  I'd like to find one, thanks. 


MARSBAR:  Why do panic attacks come so randomly especially when you haven't had one 
for awhile? Is it feels like there is an adrenaline problem. It happens even if I am 
not stressed out. 


Bronwyn Fox:  Ok this is telling me you may be dissociating first. What I mean by 
this is you may be unknowingly inducing a trance state such as derealisation the 
sensation that you or your surroundings are not real or depersonalization the 
feeling of being detached from the body. 

I will give Dearest the links to our web pages that discuss this. Check them out and 
you may find your answer as to why this is happening. It is very common for people 
with panic disorder.


Dearest:  Bronwyn, I am convinced there's a connection between menopause, 
imbalanced hormones, hot flashes, night sweats and anxiety/panic attacks. Your 
thoughts?  Too many women who've never had panic attacks begin having them 
during menopause. 


Bronwyn Fox:  I agree, Dearest very much so I think the stress of menopause physically 
may trigger panic attacks and it can be so confusing working out what symptom is 
what this is what I needed to do in recovery. 


Dearest:  I have had psychiatrists as guests in Power Surge who adamantly disagree 
with me, but I am convinced there's a connection. The bottom line is it has to be 
treated anyway. 


Mysticforest7:  I was on estrogen and had a lot of anxiety attacks. Then I changed 
to progesterone cream and am fine, however, I do have panicky feelings every now 
and then, what should I do?  It's like weird, you know, I feel like normal and then 
I feel like out of sorts. 


Bronwyn Fox:  Learn to see why these are happening. This is why mindfulness or 
another cognitive technique is important because it can help you understand what is 
happening and then how to control it. 


Babs:  My daughter is fighting a brain tumor.  I experience extreme anxiety 
including panic disorder. However, panic attacks wake me from deep sleep and 
prevent me from driving on interstate highways (Weird!). I use to love to drive. 
This doesn't make sense to me. Does it to you? AND do you suggest use of 
antidepressants to control panic disorder? 


Dearest:  Nothing wierd about it at all. When I had panic attacks years ago, 
I also got them on the parkways. 


Bronwyn Fox:  It makes total sense to me.  These are classic panic attacks. 


Babs:  But WHY driving? 


Bronwyn Fox:  When we are driving we can 'trance out'


Bronwyn Fox:  We can be staring at the road ahead, the car ahead and we can 
unknowingly move into a trance state and then panic as a result of the sensations. 


Babs:  Bron, where can I learn more about "trancing out?  Which book? 


Bronwyn Fox:  Nocturnal panic attacks can be related. 


Babs:  Wow, those are BAD 


Bronwyn Fox:  The panic attacks that happen when we trance out and the nocturnal 
panic attacks are caused through a result of the change in consciousness.  They are 
not dangerous in any way.


Whispersoftly23:  Please tell me the cost of the workshop, and is it online? Thanks.


Dearest:  It's six weeks of sessions, two hours per week and costs what one visit to 
a shrink would cost. 


Bronwyn Fox:  I will give Dearest the link to this on our website. 


Bronwyn Fox:  The cost is USA $90.00 for the six weeks and this includes a copy of my 
latest book or US $75.00 without the book. 


Misstykcal:  How can a person have a change of consciousness when they are wide 
awake. Where can I get more info about this as I am not sure I believe it. Are 
trancing and disassociation the same thing. Can I get a copy of your book online? 


Bronwyn Fox:  When we daydream we are changing consciousness.  To get information on 
this I will give Dearest the link to our webpages that discuss this.  Dissociation 
is on a scale say 1 - 10 with 10 being the most severe. People with panic disorder 
are about 4 on the scale.  You can get both of my books on line via my website, but 
you can get Power Over Panic via Amazon.  Trancing out is another word for 
dissociation as is altered states of consciousness. 


Misstykcal:  thank you for all your information tonight. I will get your book. Ciao 
and have a good evening. 


Dearest:  As I said before, Email me with your questions to Dearest@aol.com. 
I will send you the information you need. That's for anyone who has any additional 
questions for Bronwyn or about menopause/Power Surge.  

Bronwyn, thanks for spending so much time with us in PS tonight fielding our questions 
about panic attacks and anxiety. I recommend Bronwyn's books, Power Over Panic (2nd ed.) and 
"Working Through Panic," plus her excellent cassette tapes, "Anxiety Panic: Taking 
Back the Power." You can visit Bronwyn's Web site, The Anxiety Panic Hub at: 
www.panicattacks.com.au Thank you all for
coming and thanks, again, for a wonderfully informative chat, Bronwyn.  


Bronwyn Fox: Thank you, Dearest. I enjoyed the discussion.


Dearest:  Goodnight, everyone! 

      
                      
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