I gained 80 lb. within a few months of menopause. I had gained about 60 lb. in my 40's as my estrogen declined. The reason that you are so hungry is that your body, sensing estrogen deprivation, wants you to gain fat because fat makes estrone, a type of estrogen. After 8 years of being morbidly obese (and taking too little estrogen), I discovered that the RIGHT DOSE of estrogen stops hunger pangs and results in massive weight loss. Please read my posts under the Migraine section, as I cured that, too, and tell how I did it.

Drug companies are doing trials on estrone for fat loss, only they have changed the natural estrone that is available today from compounding pharmacists into a fake estrone so that they will one day be able to sell it as an expensive drug. Google "rats estrone weight loss" and you will find articles on how their oleoyl-estrone has induced massive fat loss in rats. Here is one of them: ****


Board Admininstrator: Links to commercial sites are not permitted.

I believe you. I am 5'2" and have been between 125-135 all my life. When I hit peri, I gained 30 pounds in 6 months. Doing alot of research on the internet and listening to my body, my estrogen has dropped as well. I believe even a little drop can affect your weight. I have been wanting to try estriol cream, but haven't gotten around to it.

I'm a believer!

Shan

One other point, if you are on progesterone, it will likely make you hungry, as it is the pregnancy hormone. Your body will feel like it needs to eat for two! I only take progesterone every 2 or 3 months at the lowest possible dose. Even then, I am doing good just to keep from gaining weight on the dreaded 12 days of progesterone.

I was wondering myself whether progesterone could cause weight gain - I started using just a dab for 14 days a cycle the last 2 months. I was watching my diet and was losing 2 pounds a week before starting the progesterone, then the weight stopped coming off the last two months and I actually gained back 2 pounds. I think I am going to hold off starting back on the progesterone cream when my period comes....been off the progesterone and waiting 10 days and haven't started yet. Maybe I will go back and forth with using it every other month for a while and see if it is effecting my weight on the months I use it.

NiteOwl I agree with you!!!!!!!! When I was taking bcp, and still feeling "off balanced" I had lost about 10 pounds just by exercising and cutting back on carbs. Well shortly after starting compounded progesterone I gained back the 10 pounds even through I was still exercising and not eating many carbs. I've now put on an additional 30 pounds since I began taking progesterone, if the compounded progesterone didn't make me feel somewhat "normal" I'd stop.

I've been thinking about contacting the compounding pharmacy and talking with the representative about other alternatives. Another thing that I've noticed about progesterone is that it does help my blood pressure remain within normal range. When I was taking only bp medication my bp was fluctuating. Now that I'm taking progesterone my bp is good.

Yikes,

This link is for a pharmaceutical company!!! Not allowed on P-S. Furthermore, I don't trust ANY "research" that big-pharmas do, as they have a financial interest in the outcome.

Sorry, but I'm somewhat cynical about this kind of info when it comes from a business website.

JJ

Me too JJ. It is always in their best interest. Any research done by the drug companies is bias i.e. money driven and always promises you the safest and best results that you desire.

I have absolutely no connection to "big pharma"! I am new and did not know that posting a link aboout research was not allowed. That is just a link I found through Google about how the drug companies are taking the natural hormone estrone and adding something weird to it to make it patentable. What works, and is available now, is natural bioidentical estrone (and estradiol) from compounding pharmacies at the RIGHT DOSE. I discovered this by myself, quite by accident, when I doubled my dose one day and discovered I was no longer hungry. I didn't even know that "big pharma" was testing a man-made form of estrone until after I had lost my weight and Googled it to see if there was anything about it on the internet.

I had been morbidly obese (262 lb.) for the 8 years since menopause. I tried to diet for 8 years, but I had extreme hunger pains at the same 3-4 PM time every day and always started binge eating no matter how hard I tried to resist. (I discovered later that that is the time of day that estrogen levels dip lowest.) I was actually considering gastric bypass surgery until I discovered that estrogen deprivation was the reason for my hunger. I lost almost 100 pounds over 18 months. Be cynical if you want to, but I only wrote this to help women--free of charge. I am not selling anything.

One other thing, as you lose the weight, you are also losing some of your estrone-making fat. Therefore, after about every 20 lb. loss (or whenever you start thinking about doughnuts a little too much!), you will need to increase the estrone a bit to make up for the loss. Your menopause symptoms may even come back as you lose greater and greater amounts of fat, in which case you will need to increase the estradiol to the point that your symptoms stop. Remember, as you lose fat, you lose estrogen. That fat is there in the first place because your body knew you needed estrogen.

It is amazing how quickly your body will react to a dip in estrogen level--literally within minutes. It is like the body has this intelligence and is thinking, "Make her hungry so she'll get fat. Fat makes estrone, and we are in dire need of that right now." That is what it is all about, and it is not due to emotions like Oprah and Dr. Phil tell you, but due to biochemistry and hormones. Yes, you may eat when you feel nervous or sad, but it is because the low estrogen is making you nervous and sad. Your brain can't work properly without enough estrogen. When I was morbidly obese and eating practically non-stop, I had actual gnawing hunger pains and rumblings in my stomach most of the time. But the whole time I was taking my right dose of estrogen and losing close to 100 lb. (on a diet of 1200 calories and then 1500 calories after 6 months), I did not have a single hunger pain. Yes. the diet made me lose the weight, but I never was able to stick to a diet for even one day from age 50 to 58 because I was so hungry all the time.

Someday this will all be common knowledge, but it usually takes 20 years or more. It should be obvious when you look around at all the women who gain weight at perimenopause and menopause, but most scientists are men. Anyway, I will let you "cynical" women go back to commiserating with each other about your weight gain, as it appears my discovery is ahead of its time! :-)

I have heard this before. So does it follow that slimmer women have worse peri/meno symptoms because they carry less estrogen in their tissues?

No, slim women can have the full range of intensity of menopause symptoms. In addition to lack of estrogen, you also have to have one of the many recently discovered obesity genes in order to get anywhere near as fat as I was. I always thought that my mother and grandmother gave me the obesity genes. The one thing I didn't think about until recently was that my grandmother was normal weight until she had a hysterectomy at age 23. My mother was normal weight until menopause. Both women wound up at about 260 lb., just the same weight as a niece of mine who is in perimenopause now. I weighed from 110-125 lb. in my 20's, but got up to 185 in my 30's and 40's as my estrogen declined. At 50, I got all the way up to 262. I've wondered why I got fatter than my mother was in her 30's and 40's. Could it be because I took the birth control pill in my 20's and developed an "addiction" to high levels of artificial estrogen? Believe me, I am not a fan of "big pharma"!

Also, a fat woman, until she gets to the point where she has made enough fat to compensate for the lack of estrogen, can have extremely severe menopause symptoms. When I finally started taking Estrace, I had gained to 262 lb. At that time, I took just enough to stop my symptoms. If I had not started taking Estrace, I wonder how fat I would have gotten. 300? 400?

Here is a website which lists all the different genes that have been found to cause obesity. Click on the "single gene mutations", "associations", and "linkages" to see how many different genes are involved.
http://obesitygene.pbrc.edu/
That's why it makes me so mad to listen to Dr. Phil and Oprah telling me that fat is due to weakness of character. It is a very complex problem. If a woman was fat in childhood or in her 20's, taking estrogen in menopause may not help her lose weight. But if she blimped up suddenly in perimenopause or menopause, the right dose of estrogen is certainly worth trying. Dr. Uzzi Reiss suggests sublingual drops of Tri-est to quickly stop a migraine. I'm thinking those drops might be useful for the "sudden urge to binge eat" that menopausal women get, usually in the mid-afternoon.

Not to offend anyone...but those who sell the anti- "big pharma," or big oil, or big corporation propaganda can also be in it to make a buck or a name. Some of them are correct, but some really are over the top. It's best to be open-minded and skeptical, but not to throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water. Drug companies can be self-serving, like all corporations, and they provide us with very real help for our health problems.

In the academic world, which tends to join political forces with Hollywood, there is a tendency to take an opinion that is somewhat correct and just run with it. People whose agenda is to scare the heck out of you aren't always thinking in a perfectly balanced way; rather they are over-simplifying issues because it helps make their point and it generates support for their political aims. I watch it happen all the time.
Of course big corporations have scary elements, but that doesn't mean that we should reject everything they do out of hand.

Thanks for your message, 123. I'm going to look into it. And I'm sorry to get on my soapbox, but all-or-nothing thinking sometimes causes us to lose perspective. Money and power drive research, which can skew it, but so can emotion and a desire to gain power by scaring the public. Balance and critical thinking are good. (Really, I'm sorry if I come off sounding patronizing...maybe I've just read WAY too many papers recently by students who follow their professors' causes without reflection).

Anyone who has an answer to the FAT problem is worth listening to, at least (as my laptop rests uncomfortably on my fresh new rolls of belly fat).

123,
I do believe in theory that estrogen loss causing weight gain, and I can second that biopidentical Progesteron in any form maked me gained weight almost instantly, so I had to stop BHRT because of dreaded progesteron. On those days that I took Biest and testosteron, I felt really good... Our body is trying to make up for something that is being lost, so it does makes us hungrier so we can eat more and gain fat. This is similar to PMS muches, that we have every months, I can tel when E drops, because I eat much more than I normally do. I never binge, but on those days I do dlightly moe cabrs, and crave sweet potatoe once a month.
Having said that, I now wonder why then we do gain weight during puberty, when out body starts making estrogen?
Before puberty I was quite slim and had the worst appetite, so my mom used to chase me with a spoon. Once I started puberty, I was hungry all the time, and used to wake up at night because of hunger pangs. I was not overweight, but was not skiny anymore and became a good eater.
Now, I was around 135-140 pounds and then started gaining weight after 40, without any changes to my diet and actually increased my exercise regimen. I managed to ched 35 pounds and was very happy about by starting LC diet, but then started messing with bioidentical progesteron (after reading dr.Lee's book) and the pounds started to pile back. I also felt like I pregnant again: moody, cravings, sleepy, and bloated.
Now, if estradiol is great for weight loss, can it be used without taking progesteron days 14-28? Every website that is selling Progesteron cream is advertising it as a best thing next to sliced bread, and while it may help some women right at the begining of the perimenopause, for me it works as brain anastetic (i.w. sleeping pill)and this is when it's positive side effect ends.
May be this is why they sell estrothin for weight loss, gotta be something about it.
I.

Found this infor ont he web, this is not commercial site, looks like estradiol does indeed cause weight loss but in rats and hamsters, too bad I am neither one, LOL
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...9&dopt=Abstract

Iradan,

It has been repeated in other postings but if you have a uterus, do not take estrogen in any form unopposed, this may lead to uterine cancer (excessive thickiening of uterine cells). You need the progesterone to help shed the lining of the uterus. Your doctor should know this and not just prescribe estrogen if you have a uterus.

Some girls who gain a lot of weight at puberty have polycystic ovary disease. Even if a girl is normal, half of every month she has progesterone, which increases hunger. After menopause, the body stops making progesterone, so it is actually an advantage to get past the perimenopause stage as far as being able to stick to a diet is concerned. At menopause, you must take progesterone to keep from getting endometrial cancer, but you can cut it down to 12 days every 2 or even 3 months, if you can keep from spotting that long. It is very hard not to binge on my progesterone days. I've read all of Dr. John Lee's books, but progesterone is "the hormone from hell" as far as my body is concerned. A new book of his is coming out this summer, even though he died of a heart attack in 2003.

It is a common observation that women gain weight in their late 40's and 50's, so Estrothin is advertising their product as if it is a cure for female midlife weight gain, but of course, it contains no estrogen since estrogen is prescription.

I know it's been a while since I posted but after reading the first post I had to write in. It suddenly just clicked! I had my first hot flash just after I turned 29, just a couple months after my birthday. I had just had a baby 6 months prior to that. Anyway I of course started to loose the baby fat from the time she was born untill I turned 29, then all of a sudden I started to PACK on the weight!! I am 5'1'' and I got up to 155 lbs!!!!! I was HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!! I was able to loose a bit of it and get down to 132 but that took 5 years. I have now gained some back and am having the dickins of a time tring to get it back off. I new that your body stores/makes estragen (or however it is spelled! ) in fat cells, but I didn't untill just now connect the dots and realize that my weight gain and the peri symptoms started at the same time! I'm not sure if that makes me feel better or not, it's just nice to know I'm not just eating too much. I do watch what I eat and workout often. It's just another wonderful thing I get to go through before I'm "supposed" to!
Thank you Power Surge!!
De

I took Biest alone only on days 1-14, and then added Progesteron on days 14-28, and this is when troubles started. So I had to quit BHRT, such a pity! I know about uterine cancer and since my mom died from uterine cancer recently, I am afraid to take any hormones.


Wel, I never had PCOS and still never was stick thin, as some of my peer. I think it's everybody is different, and we operate at different estrogen levels: those who are slim are just fine with lower level of ertrogen, whilc others need more Estrogen to function.
As for progesteron, I agree it's a hormone from hell, at least, my body hates it too. Dr.Vliet books make more sense to me, than Dr.Lee, and she does not pushing any product.
None of the drs I went to, suggested taking P every 2-3 months, may be after menopause it'a good ide. But I still have my period, now back to 16-28 days, and because uterine cancer runs in my family, I am really concern about taking any form od estrogen.
I had few night sweats in my early 30s but never thought about it until now, but my 22 yo DD has it too on ocation, so may be it's not that abnormal when hormones shift.

The book I am reading now by endocrinologist Dr. Geoffrey Redmond is very interesting in that he says that women can have milder forms of PCOS and yet still have normal-looking ovaries and regular periods. The disease was called that before they could measure the actual functioning of the ovaries, and most of the women studied happened to have the polycystic ovaries. But the main symptoms of the disease are (1) insulin resistance (2) weight gain & difficulty losing weight on diets that work for other people (3) persistent acne throughout adulthood with unwanted body hair and sometimes thinning of scalp hair (4) irregular or very light periods (5) depression. I have had all 5 of those symptoms even though I do not have polycystic ovaries. His main remedy is to use the testosterone blocker spironolactone. It seems some women's bodies are vulnerable to even normal levels of testosterone. After menopause, the ovaries and also the adrenals still make testosterone. Increasing estrogen increases sex-hormone binding globulin, which takes more testosterone out of circulation. That may have something to do with my success in losing weight by increasing my estrogen. However, rats lost massive amounts of weight with the artificial estrone, and no mention was made of their having PCOS.

Yes, I agree that Dr. Elizabeth Vliet's books are great. I have read all of hers, and I believe she is the one who suggested taking progesterone every 2-3 months for those who hate it. I'm wondering how Dr. Lee is still putting out books 3 years after he died. This reminds me of the V.C. Andrews books ("Flowers in the Attic"), which are continuing to be published in her name long after her death because her heirs want to continue raking in the money.

[quote name='123' date='May 18 2006, 09:41 AM' post='124729']
The book I am reading now by endocrinologist Dr. Geoffrey Redmond is very interesting in that he says that women can have milder forms of PCOS and yet still have normal-looking ovaries and regular periods. The disease was called that before they could measure the actual functioning of the ovaries, and most of the women studied happened to have the polycystic ovaries. (3) persistent acne throughout adulthood with unwanted body hair and sometimes thinning of scalp hair (4) irregular or very light periods (5) depression. I have had all 5 of those symptoms even though I do not have polycystic ovaries.
[quote]
But the main symptoms of the disease are (1) insulin resistance (2) weight gain & difficulty losing weight on diets that work for other people [/quote]
This is something I have strong objection about, there is not one size fits all diet and even id we are the same species, we all have our genetic metabolic blue print, so some ppl do well on a low fat diet while others do great oractically eating protein and fat mostly. BTW, theer are ppl who would argue aobut what is the actual himan diet.
Wel, I have only first two symptoms, never had acne (even as a teen), no body hair and had long and thick hair (down to my butt and 3 inches across), which were a big hassle to take care of. I also barely have any testosteron in my body lately, last few blood tests were borderline low. I did try compunded testosteron and felt somewhat better on it, more energy and less moodiness.
[quote]His main remedy is to use the testosterone blocker spironolactone. [/quote]
I have read some women using spironolactone for hair loss, but it mainly used as high BP medication, aka as a water pill and I won't be messing with this kind of meds.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginf...er/a682627.html
IMHO, Insulin resistance that what causing PCOS, not the other way around. This condition is genetic, and formes before a child is even born. Insulin is our major hormone, and it basically defines every process and function of a n human body, even one's life span. Insulin resistance leads to hyperinsulemia (higher than normal levels of insulin) and this is a vicious cycle: the higher level of insulin, the more resitant cells become. Higher than normal levels of insulin, stimulate ovarian androgen production and inhibits SGBH, thus preventing ovulation and leading to PCOS.
http://www.vcu.edu/pcos/information.html
The onyl solution in treating this condition is low carb (Atkins type ) insulin lowering diet and drug metrofmin (insulin sensitizer) if one can tolerate it. Once insulin level had returned to normal, ovulation will resume, and hormonal balance will be restored.
I think it's better to restore body's own hormonal balance, than artificially treat this condition with meds and exogenious homrones, even bioidentical. At least, for a young women of reproductive age.
[quote]Yes, I agree that Dr. Elizabeth Vliet's books are great. I have read all of hers, and I believe she is the one who suggested taking progesterone every 2-3 months for those who hate it. I'm wondering how Dr. Lee is still putting out books 3 years after he died. This reminds me of the V.C. Andrews books ("Flowers in the Attic"), which are continuing to be published in her name long after her death because her heirs want to continue raking in the money.
[/quote]
I won't buy this new book anyway, may be he left some notes or his heirss simply want to conitnues milking this cow. Same way as Atkins center published his last book on diabetes long after his death.

I.

I lost 24 pounds after going off natural estrogen. Now I just use Progest (OTC) for half of the month. Progesterone is the only thing that has ever, in 9 years, helped my meno symptoms. My periods are erratic and rare now (I'm 52 in July), so I go by calendar month.

I think we are all very, very different, and weight gain is not always caused by hormones (though I previously believed that, and I'm sure it is true for many women, of course). I personally know several women who have lost weight as they've gotten into menopause, just naturally, like my mother did.

I think thyroid is the biggest issue for maintaining proper weight (along with proper diet and exercise, of course). The newer guidelines say to get your TSH as close to 2 as possible. My doctor was always satisfied with mine being over 4, but it takes about 10 years for doctors to come around to anything new, in my experience.

I'm at the lowest weight I've been in my adult life, now that my thyroid medicine has been adjusted, and I actually have to eat quite a bit to stay where I am.

I was talking to a woman today at our dog park who was saying she has gained 60 pounds due to "perimenopause" (she's 49). However, when I inquired as to her thyroid, she said, "Oh, the TSH is very high--15 and it won't come down!" Well, I think that's a very big part of her weight problem, far more, possibly, than perimenopause. 15 is REALLY high, meaning really low T4 and T3. Not good.

Half the problem with finding solutions to menopause problems, in my opinion, is how differently women react to various treatments and "cure-alls." What's true for some of us is the opposite for others, unfortunately.

I went on HRT for a month over a year ago. I gained 8lbs in that one month. I went off it because it wasn't relieving my symptoms and lost the weight pretty quickly. I have been in peri for almost 2 years and have not gained any weight because of it. I think everyone is different in how their bodies react to the decrease in hormones. I know I have had a very bad time with peri and I am 5'6 and weigh 130. I am hungry alot of the time, but I just am careful with what I eat even though sometimes that is hard. I am taking nothing at all now and will try not to. My main symptom is fatigue which was not helped with the HRT.

Kim

Normal weight for 5'6" is between 124-155 - so you are on the low end of normal. That could be why it is quite so hard to stay there and could be contributing to your fatigue.

Zelma

I had been diagnosed with CFS last winter. The type of fatigue/exhaustion I am experiencing have nothing to do with my weight. I have always been this weight all my life. In fact, when I was in my 20's I weighed even less. I have Crohn's disease since 1979 so that also is a contributor in my weight. I was just commenting that when I did go on HRT, I gained 8lbs that month due to the estrogen I believe because when I went off it, I lost the weight. I may look a little thin to some people, but that is just me. I exercise and eat healthy most of the time. Good thought though.

Kim

Good point.

Whenever I read a thread with "the answer" to whatever problem, it's a red flag, since there is never "the answer" to anything.

Though there may be an answer for an individual (sometimes!).

I am very confused. Does estrogen cause you to gain or lose weight? What is natural estrogen? I have heard of the natural progestertone creams, is this the same thing for estrogen. All I know is that I am gaining weight when I just look at food. My periods are very heavy and long, even on BCP's. I get confused how you tell if you are estrogen dominant or your estrogen is low. Are the symptoms about the same? So much to learn at this wonderful time of life. I am 51 and dreading 52 if I am going to get fatter! cakh

Long and heavy periods can oly mean high estrogen and low progesteron.

This is an interesting thread. I've just been diagnosed with POS ... had a transvaginal scan that showed several cysts on my ovaries....increased testosterone and DHEA ..have some facial hair appearing and due to have lasar treatment for that soon. However, I didn't know about the insulin resistance ...they just dont tell you all that needs to be known! I am wondering what are the consequences of this so will do some heavy research. I am overweight but not THAT overweight and my hair isn't falling out... the joys of being a woman...NOT

Natural estrogen is the same chemically as your own body produces, as opposed to the horse estrogen that most doctors prescribe (Premarin). It is made from yams and called estradiol, estrone, or estriol (3 types in the human female). The strongest of these is estradiol; estrone is 12X weaker; estriol is supposedly 30X weaker. If too much estrogen is taken for your needs, you can quickly gain water weight, up to about 8-10 lb. You can quit the estrogen or lower the dose, and it will come right off.

I agree that if your periods are very heavy and long, you probably have too much estrogen for the amount of progesterone you are producing, or perhaps you have polyps or fibroids. You should have a blood test and exam. However, don't be too worried because it is common to have some heavy periods in the early menopause stages.

I did not mean to imply that lack of estrogen is the cause of every woman's weight gain. There are many different genes involved, and of course, thyroid may be the problem. But any woman who was thin when young and suddenly gains a lot of weight at menopause (and who has had an exam to rule out thyroid problems) may want to consider my post. It is certainly safer to try increasing your estrogen before you submit to gastic by-pass surgery. Anyone who is opposed to taking estrogen, I am certainly not going to force them! This is not, however, just something that has worked for me only. I discovered this on my own quite by accident, but I have since found by looking on the internet that estrone (at least the artificial form made by the drug company looking for a patent) can work even for a morbidly obese MAN!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract

I would recommend that you buy Dr. Elizabeth Vliet's 2006 book "Savvy Woman's Guide to PCOS".

I recommend you read the article, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS).

Also read, Ovarian Cysts

*Everything* is NOT on this board.

As for Dr. Vliet, she's been a guest in Power Surge three times. Her transcripts can be found in the Transcript Library -- beginning with her first guest chat. At the bottom of every transcript (where a guest has appeared more than once), you'll find links to their other transcripts.

Dearest

When I was young, I thought that once a woman had a baby, she had to be fat and out of shape for the rest of her life. Sometimes I'd see women like this, and they had babies.

I'd suggest that in the 1950s, exercising and being in shape was not as commonly practiced as it was by the 1980s. A girl would graduate from high school, get married, have children, and "lose her figure." It didn't raise any eyebrows. People said, "She's got children," so being fat was sort of expected.

But when I got older, I realized that automatic permanent weight gain for mothers was a myth. Women would have several children, but the women stayed in shape after pregnancy and watched their weight. I realized that having kids had been an excuse. The weight did not magically attach itself to mothers. They had to overeat and not burn it off, the same as anyone else.

Another myth I believed was that once a woman entered menopause, she would "not be able to" lose weight. I really believed this, well into my early forties. I thought that the hormone changes caused women to gain weight, and no matter what diet they tried or how much exercise they got, they'd stay fat.

I gained probably about 70 pounds in peri. I remember that the weight came on quickly, over the space of maybe 18 months. I've always had a tendency to be overweight and at various times in my life I've gained and lost large amounts. But in peri, it was different because although I knew I was overeating, the weight came on much faster.

Now I know why--the dropping estrogen issue.

But I was able to disprove the myth that I had to be fat in menopause. After my first year without a period, things calmed down enough for me to focus on a lifestyle change. I'd always gone on "diets" before, and I realized that I had to make some permanent changes or I'd be gaining and losing over and over (not good for the heart). So I worked out a flexible eating plan for myself that I could live with the rest of my life (NOT a diet). It had to include plenty of calcium, which I need more of now, and it had to include Revival Soy every day. It had to include eating out at restaurants, eating at the holidays and other special occasions, and allowing myself ice cream or another treat every day. Along with the lifestyle change was an exercise program. I'm not a big fan of aerobics and I would not be able to stick to this, but I do like walking. So I started walking for an hour every day.

I lost the 70 pounds in peri, and I've maintained my weight now by the same common sense approach that always worked. There have been no mysterious menopause forces that trap me in an overweight condition. I lost weight at the same rate pace as always, and have maintained it the same as always. And I take no HRT.

Well, I guess I am just one of those inferior, weak-willed, lazy gluttons who have to make excuses for myself and use a crutch like estrogen. One reason it works is by keeping levels of serotonin steady in the brain, reducing carbohydrate cravings.
____________________________________________________________________________
"Does obesity begin in the brain?
10:00 10 June 2006
NewScientist.com news service

FAT is a neurobiological issue. The brains of overweight people have more receptors for the neurotransmitter serotonin than those of people of normal weight, suggesting that being overweight may be down to more than just eating habits and may have an origin in brain chemistry.

David Erritzoe and his colleagues at the Neurobiology Research Unit at Rigshospitalet, part of Copenhagen University Hospital, Denmark, used positron emission tomography to map the brains of 47 people of normal weight and 29 overweight people. Drugs that block the serotonin receptor 5-HT2A are associated with weight gain, and in animals, stimulating the receptor causes weight loss, suggesting that this receptor plays a role in regulating body weight. The researchers found slightly higher concentrations of the receptor in overweight people.

Whether the difference in receptor number is a cause or an effect of being overweight remains uncertain, but twin studies suggest that genes are important in determining its prevalence.

123, far from it!! Your posts have helped me GREATLY. You are very knowledgeable and you have a wonderfully clear way of writing. I hope you will go on posting (at least for my sake).

I was just giving my own experience with a weight problem. I've been plagued all of my life with weight problems. I'm the only one in my family to be very big, and my parents and brother were always ridiculing me. That really hurt when I was in high school, since I had enough to deal with without being made fun of at home, especially at that age.

I do think I'm more irritable now, since I lost weight, and this could very well be due to what you have described above. I think I'd almost rather be a larger HAPPY person than not as large and feel irritable. rabbier.


Ha ha--I started to write "crabbier," then changed it to irritable. Sorry!

Hey 123

If there is more steady serotonin levels in brain - shoudlnt fatter people be happier too? Or if there are more receptors in fatter people's brains does that mean that serotonin is uptaken more quickly?

Mele

No, the fat is just a desperate attempt by some obese-prone bodies to maintain a normal level of serotonin in the brain, but it doesn't work all that well, and usually fat people have to keep eating more and more just to feel OK, which is why the natural history of obesity is to get fatter over time. Fat people are not usually jolly, but depressed. Anti-depressants like Prozac are serotonin re-uptake INHIBITORS. When I was in my late 30's and beginning to gain weight due to declining estrogen, I read that Prozac might help with weight loss. My niece and I both tried it and lost our urge to binge on carbohydrates. We both lost a lot of weight, too, but after about a year of having to keep upping the dose, the Prozac quit working for both of us. It seems like the obese body wants to maintain a certain level of weight and will become "immune" to any kind of intervention which makes one go below the setpoint. My niece tried jogging and stair climbing for an hour a day. At first she lost weight, but then she began to regain all her weight after about a year in spite of maintaining a grueling exercise regimen. I have hopes that my body will not become "immune" to the weight controlling effects of estrogen since it is a natural hormone and not a drug. However, I have been struggling with my weight for over 20 years now, and I fear that the weight is going to jump back on me at some point.

I know that the naturally thin and "reformed fatties" think that is a cop-out & that we control what we put in our mouths. Yes, I can control my eating for a while, but then there comes a point when my body controls me. Could these superior people really control their eating if they had gnawing 24-hour a day hunger pains, insomnia, constant obsessive thoughts of food, headaches, and even vomiting when hunger gets too intense? I don't think so. Fat people are HUNGRY people.

Then there is the statement, "You didn't gain it overnight, so you can't expect to lose it overnight." That is so not true for me. The way I always gained weight was to stay the same for months, suddenly have a period of intense hunger and overeating, and put on 10-12 lb. within 2 weeks. Then I would stay that new weight for months until the same cycle repeated. It's like my body was calculating an estrogen deficit, revving up my appetite, and when the deficit had been met by the new level of fat, slacking off on the appetite so that it maintained that new weight until there was a further estrogen decline with age.

It's so helpful to hear others' experiences, especially given "big medicine's" lack of research and interest in this realm. Please keep your posts coming.

I can say if you have torubles controlling your appetite from time to time, try a low carb diet like Atkins, this is the best way to control appetie and you will never be hungry again. Most folks who have troubles controlling appetite, do great on this kind of eating plan. BTW, eating higher % of fat will help with estrgoen too.

I tried this for 6 months back in my 40's, and I wasn't hungry and did lose 50 lb. My skin, though, aged rapidly and never looked the same. The skin on the back of my hands, especially, became lax and wrinkled, looking like an 80-year-old's. A neighbor who went on the diet at the same time as I did had the same thing happen to her. My hands have looked that way ever since. I was told that diabetics' skin ages faster and this ketosis diet was similar in some ways. Anyway, after 6 months of meat, meat, meat, I just couldn't take it any more. I don't even like meat and feel guilty eating it. Of course, as soon as I quit the diet, I couldn't stop eating until I had gained back everything I had lost. My niece, who also went on the diet with me, had the same aversion to this diet after being on it for 6 months. Neither of us could stand the thought of going on it ever again. I do think low-glycemic is good, but even low-glycemic did not keep me from being hungry when I didn't have enoough estrogen.

Actually, diabetes and ketogenic diet are not the same, diabetic age fast because of high level of insulin, which is pro-inflamatory and accelerates aging. Ketogenic diet is the opposite, it's low on insulin,a nd many ppl have even better skin on low carb diet than eating high carb. Nothing ages us faster than higher than normal insulin levels, which even defines our life span. Ketogenic diet (if done properly) should be more fat than protein, if done properly, the ratio of fat:protein:carbs is 70:15:10, if done properly, and there is no need to eat meat all the time, low glycemic veggies and plnety of good fat (olive oil, nuts) with just as much protein as needed to cover lifestyle, works well, even fruit like berries and melon can be incorporated into the plan.
But everyone's body is different, I have no problem contrlling my appetite, and do not eat much either, and still can't get rid of 10-15 extra pounds, and most of it I gained while playing with Biest and progesteron. Go figure...

I still think that hunger and body fat linked also to insulin/leptin disorder. High level of insulin drives hunger high, and wrong nutriotion can make susceptable individuals very insulin resistant and obese, no questions about it.
Since insulin is a major hormone, it governs all minor hormones, and estrogen is a minor hormone. So I am not sure if it's only estrogen drop that causes weight gain, insulin resistance getting worse as we get older too...

I do agree that insulin levels are related to obesity. Obesity is very complex and involves more than just one factor in most women. But I don't agree that estrogen is a minor hormone. It is involved in over 400 body functions, so it is not just a sex hormone. All I know that when my estrogen level is right, I no longer have gnawing hunger pains, even if I eat junk food, which I try not to do, of course.

Hi 123, I have read your postings and find them very educational, you are one informed cookie.
Let me ask your opinion I am basically fine for a few weeks the PMS hits thats ok bearable, but my issue is at the end of my period at about day 6 to 8 I get 2 days of BP spikes not bad about 140/80 I am ususally like 117/72 126/75 something like that. I think I become estrogen dominant and the last gyno I saw said the same thing, I dont want to take the prometierium(spelling) its the progesteron pill he says my problem is a lack of.
I am trying the usp cream but was wondering should I be putting the cream on those 2 days when the estrogen takes over, I cant find any reading on this . I am using it just like it says and will see if on this period it makes a difference. Just wanted to toss this out there see what you might know, thanks Tinks

There are some doctors like Dr. John Lee who think all women's problems are due to lack of progesterone and diagnose "estrogen dominance" without doing any blood testing on the days (Days 6 & 7) that you are having your worst problem. If you really believe estrogen dominance is your trouble, then Dr. Lee has a new book coming out in late August called "Dr. John Lee's Hormone Balance Made Simple", written beyond the grave, I guess, since he died 3 years ago. So check on Amazon for that later if interested. However, I don't subscribe to the estrogen dominance theory, especially in perimenopause when estrogen drops. Dr. Elizabeth Vliet, who writes good books about women's hormones, says that when she actually measures the blood levels of women with "estrogen dominance", they have subnormal estrogen levels.

There are times when you may retain water if your estrogen spikes up temporarily, and this will raise your BP. A diuretic will bring it down. However, it would be extremely unusual to have an estrogen spike on Days 6 & 7 of your cycle. If you look at a chart of the typical female hormone cycle, you will see that those days estrogen is even lower than pre-menstrually. I suppose it is a possibility that your FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) is sensing low estrogen those days and is overstimulating your ovaries so that you get a temporary estrogen spike. Are you retaining water those days? If not, I would guess that the HBP is due to lack of estrogen. In the past, when I was not taking enough estrogen, I would have periods when my BP would do exactly what yours is doing. As soon as I absorbed the estrogen gel on my skin, my 150/80 would drop to 120/70.

Thank you very Much for all this information and taking the time to tell me, I will print it up and see about the blood testing theory, Tinkybug

Here are excerpts from J.Bowden article on hormones and weight

I always thought PMS is due to low estrogen, not progesteron, so there w go:

Thjios information does contradict with Estogen usage for weight loss, BUT since estrone is principal estrogen after menopause and is made by adrenal cortex and adipose tissue, it does make sense why supplementing with Estrone in adequate quantities makes adipose tissue less valuable and hence, the fat release hormone is activated.
Estriol is a principal estrogen produced by ovaries, and it must be balance with progesterone to avoid endometrium build up. But emphasis on Progesterone as a weoght loss aid (per Dr.Lee) seems anecdotal during menopause. I think Progesterone is what causes fluid retension and weight gain during pregnancy and second part of the menstrual cycle.
But during pubrty, adrenals start producing estrone to insure adequate body fat required to trigger ovulation.
Now, during perimenopausal years, ovaries are runing out of eggs. No ovulation means no corpus luteum and not only progesteron is missing byut also estrogen drops significantly during 2nd part of the cycle. I personally never had PMS before starting perimenopause, even in my late 30s. But I did had slight tender breasts and migranes before TOM, which IMHO, was a sign of high priogesterone, not lack of it.
Interesting, that I had the same problem using Progesterone alone, and even with small dose of estradiol.
Manhattan Pharmaceuticals is testing Oleoyl-estrone (OE) to treat obesity, hopefully they will get FDA approval, definetely a god send for those struggling with weight loss.
But I have only one concern: how safe is it, cancer wise. Estrone is weaker than estradiol but is thought to be the most cancerogenic type of estrogen. While fat loss seems to be very tempting, espcially without adhering to hypocaloric diet, the potential side effects may outweight the benefits. There is data showing the higher level of estrogen in male cause prostate prostate hyperplasia and even cancer, and also linked to Alzheimer's desease in both sexes.
JMHO

I doubt obese ppl are happier, they are actually more prone to depression, and may be the onesity is a result of depression and quick serotonin uptake. Also, carbs are know to boost serotonin, it requires protein and some cabrs to make and keep serotonin from dropping. Turkey and dairy contain thryptopan, a raw materail for serotonin. eating high sugar and refined cabr diet makes blood sugar spike and then drop sharply, and so goes serotonin.
So if one eats mainly carbs for comfort, and is short in protein and good fats, depression is in order.

This is very interesting. I am trying hard to lose weight. I've managed about 10lbs over the last month. The odd thing is I get on the scale one day and I'm a certain weight and the very next day I'm up 8lbs. This happens week after week. No one at work (mostly men) believe me, but its true. Of course its water retention. I am taking vaginal estrogen two times a week. It is not supposed to enter the blood stream but I think it might. I actually feel better latley, except today as I awoke to my period I have no idea if I have to much, not enough or what hormones are out of whack. All I know is that they're driving me crazy!