I will try to make sense here. I have read recently that to take even natural hormone thereapy while our bodies are trying to adjust to the changes it is going through is just prolonging the inevitable( spell check) meaning that once we wean of the hormone we put in to replace the hormones we were losing we will experience the same symptoms we were trying to avoid in the first place Everyone get that So if this is true I will replace my already dwindling supply of estrogen and progesterone with the same in a other form as natural as I can get to relieve symptoms now only to have to get off of it eventually and go through what I would have went through if I would have just left alone, is this true.....anyway it has me afraid to take something that would possibly help now for fear of what I will go through later when I eventually wean myself off of them....or do you have to take them forever? Any thoughts for those of you who could understand this?

I think taking the hormones staves off any physical problems we may encounter, though not preserve us when we finally go off them - only in that we are older. Speaking of possible heart disease, osteoporosis, etc... I just don't want to have to go through the psychosomatic symptoms of menopause when I am older. I would prefer to do this now with the support of this forum and endulge in nature's methods of staving off the above, while I am young(er). And who knows...maybe it is harder to greet the 34 menopause symptoms when older; I just don't know.

Hi sunflowerklg,
You have got it right. Most of those who are in favor of hormone therapy (BHRT) advocate that you take the hormones for the rest of your life, so their idea is that you should avoid going through this all together. Funny thing I've found though is that most don't tell you this unless you ask, which strikes me as a little strange. Still there are many who go on hormones and plan to get off them at some point. When that happens, your body will go through this "hormone withdrawl" at that time and probably produce similar symptoms to what you are currently experiencing.

It is really an individual choice and as many women here have said, it is a quality of life issue for them now. I am going the natural route, no hormones, got to get through this once and for all and never want to deal with it again after that.

I feel the same way pixie girl. I am going natural route. I have taken nothing other then my multivitamin for the last 8 months. I just want it over and done with. My ob suggested progesterone and bcp but I have declined everything so far. Its an individual choice and there is no right or wrong answer.

Jill~

Count me in too gals. I'm going the natural route. I take a multivitamin too. It really is a personal choice and definitely a quality of life issue. My quality of life pretty much s*cked for 3 years. It has gotten steadily better since then. This is a natural process, even though it feels anything but natural. We are supposed to go through this change. Why we have to feel this way is beyond me!! I chose the natural route because like Pixiegirl, I want to get this over with. Man, I don't know if I could deal with this 10 or 20 years down the road. Some women may be able to.

Yup, make that four of us. Once I read that about just putting off the symptoms until later I decided the natural route was better too. So right now I'm taking a multi, a super B complex, magnesium, calcium and inositol. Seems like a lot every morning but it seems to be working. It's cut the anxiety way down and the palps have just about gone too. (Knocking on wood here!) I just can't imagine going through this again in another 5 or 10 years! I want it all gone!

I am going the natural route too. I know this can't last forever & I want to get it over with too! I take vitamins & Mag & Cal. I also eat 1/2 bar of revival.
I sure don't want to prolong this crap! I am hoping it goes away as fast as it started. I have been treated for the flu, Food Poisoning etc. Doctors just don't seem to get it. Oh yes i had men & woman doctors.
They don't seem to understand anything about hormones!
I have always been a very heathly person but this crap has sure taken so much from me.
Here's to a better tomorrow for all of us!

The ones that do take hormones don't feel that you are weak. we all have to do what we have to. I say if they make you feel better then go for it!

"Life may not be the party we hoped for...
but while we are here we might as well dance!"

Angel0508

Hello, Well this whole long road of change is both frustrating and enlightning, to say the least.
I was in another board asking for some comments on whether I should try the bioidentical hormones.... You see I read the Suzanne somers book "The Sexy Years, and she advocates this therapy for life....
My story is I am postmenopausal and have been on various ERT 's from Premarin to the patch, and eventually to just taking Vitamins... now.

There never seems to be an end to the symptoms that keep popping up...just when you think things are looking up Bam something new.
So my question was should I start the NHRT ? Is there any right answers?
I am beginning to think NOT...

Well my journey is just that my journey and it is a wild ride. I tried to do it all natural but after years of suffering (nothing was working for me) I found a doctor that understood what I was going through. She prescribes bio-identical hormones and does it to keep you balanced but not to continue for life. I am taking progesterone cream and I drink a revival shake every morning this works for me although it was a rough road at first. I started getting really bad anxiety but my doctor increased the progesterone for a little while. I have read also that when your body has been low on progesterone and you start it you can react like that.

So I have decided to do the bio-identical hormones for now and it is working for me.

Barb

Um, Angel, I don't feel I'm "weak" for taking BHRT, I think I'm making a good health decision. After I suffered the "natural" route for several years, I started doing research on the thousand of estrogen receptors in the body. The lack of estrogen can not be replaced with vitamins or minerals. I could jerry-rig fixing the vaginal dryness I suppose, but not interior muscle tone for pubic floor and vaginal muscles, gastro-intestinal estrogen loss (I had terrible GI problems for years before taking hormones) and the other protective features of hormones.

I think we're in the infancy of really understanding how all this works, and I abhor artificials like Premarin, but I think the debate should advance. After the WHI study, I think doctors felt hoodwinked, so they just started on the "Oh, well, you didn't really need them anyway" route.

Again, everyone has to be their own advocate, so I'll respect your decision if you'll respect mine. We're the only ones who truly understand it all!

kimber

Kimber Hun, Angel wasnt saying that those that take hormones are weak, She is not cutting anyone down for those that do. I think she was trying to convey that those that Do Not take any type of hormones whether it be the NHRTs or the HRTs, are NOT going to look down on someone that does resort to these means...here is her quote... its just that her wordin of it was a bit jumbled, which we ALL can/have do/done....

The ones that do take hormones don't feel that you are weak. we all have to do what we have to. I say if they make you feel better then go for it!


This is how I perspicaciously recieved it anyways...

Sorry . . . didn't mean to be cranky. As someone said somewhere, we're all now guinea pigs in the biggest experiment in history. I'm just a science dork, and it's frustrating not to have answers and it doesn't look like anyone is really going to undertake any studies that look not only at relieving the symptoms but that can actually say what keeps us healthy in the long term.

My personal preference is that I'd rather take a hormone for life than stack up the Fosamax, Detrol, Zelnorm, Metamucil and Lipitor on my bedside table to deal with aging issues on a scattershot basis. That's my version of "natural" I guess.

But who knows? We each roll the dice.

Anyway, have a good day, ladies.

kimber

Kimber it happens to all* of us, crankiness, being fed up, misreading of posts...etc.I know you were not being a b*tch about it..HUGS!

If you look in the seat behind you, you'll see me also hanging on during this wild ride . I also tried the natural route and my quality of life was extremely poor. It was so poor that I had to take a 10 month medical leave of absence from work. I was not functioning well and ended up in a deep depression because of the daily multiple panic attacks and poor medical care that I was receiving.

This has been a 3+ years long wild roller coaster ride. With many dips, loops, and uphill rides.

I'm now taking compounded progesterone and after 3 weeks I'm doing really well . Of course I did not kick my vitamins to the curb , but I'm incorporating the vitamins (flaxseed, fish oil, borage oil, lecithin granules, digestive aide, calcium, magnesium, multivitamin) along with a new lifestyle.

I know women in my life who took various forms of hrt who when they felt comfortable weaned themselves off. They are all doing well!!! Matter of fact my mother is one of those women, and she has more get up and go energy than I do . She is so positive and energetic and I look forward to being like her when I grow up .

It's definitely a personal decision and as we all know there isn't a "magic pill" and "one size" does not fit all.

Kimber - don't know if this helps but take a look at womeninbalance.org. It is the only place I've found that has ANY studies on natural hormones. I got this from Steve Hotze who was the guest at chat last week.

What each of us does to survive this time of our lives is very personal. I've learned this from experience as well. I tried everything before going with hormones. I don't know if I'll stay on them forever. 2 doctors told me about 1/2 are able to go off them at menopause. My mom, grandmother and aunt had severe depression, almost psychosis. My mom solved it with ADs for the rest of her life.

I thought Women to Women had some pretty good advice on this. They suggested hormones,if needed, while you make the necessary lifestyle changes. I I liked this approach. The hormones save my sanity. In the meantime, I'm reading "Feeling Good," taking yoga and learning about what suppliments work for me.

I am just so greatful we have so many choices. 100 years ago it was mental hospitals or something like morphine!

I'll add my great wisdom to this...

I think it all has a lot to do with how bad your symptoms are and what else is going on in your life. No one I know has had symptoms like mine, which popped up with a vengeance very suddenly. My work life and family life have been greatly affected. You can bet that if there is anything that can be done to help, I'll do it! The possibility that I might not like my symptoms down the road isn't worth sacrificing my career and my relationship with my children and my husband.
A lot of people are affected far less, in which case I think the natural way is probably preferable. I can certainly see why people just want to get through it and move on. That sounds smart to me. But it isn't going to work in my case.
I've been on BHRT for about five months now, and while I still have plenty of problems, I am much better than I was. I have fewer days when I can't function at all (for awhile there were a number of days each month during which I couldn't function, couldn't drive...not good when trying to juggle parenting and a job!)

If you are really suffering, jump in and try whatever you can. Revival didn't do much for me, but a lot of women are really helped...that's a fairly natural route which can't hurt.

I don't know what studies will show down the line, or what new treatments will be found, if any, but I'm hoping for better things as angry Baby Boomer women get their behinds in gear and demand better care . So, I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready to wean myself off BHRT, there will be something out there to help...maybe...

Good luck! Let us know what you try, and how it works!

A Fellow Guinea Pig

I see teh thread is old, but I just stambled across it, I am stil new to the forum.
I so hear you, I too was trying the natural route, suffering most of time, not being able to get through the day without pains and aches, and my health and well being was just continued to decline despite all the vitamins, minerals, supplements that I took by a handfull. I've tried different diets and became a jym rat, still was not feeling better. I started with a very bad GI distress, underwent any possible tests, been 5 times to ER, cario tests, etc. and finally reliaze that it's just my hormones (I am almost 49).
Watchig my late mother's health deterioriate because of hormonal deficientcy, starting with diminished height, complete uterus and bladder prolapse, diabetes, severe arthritis, high blood pressure, and the last - uterine cancer, made me think that natural is not always better. Rather than taking 10 different Rx medications and a bunch of supplements for different ailments like my mom did without much success, may be better to supplement with natural hormones, and if not eliminate all the problems, but at least lessen them. Many women who took natural route, even in their 70s continue having hot flashes. I've been through really tough patches lately, and finally I decided to try BHRT, which I just started and if this helps, I would stay on it for the rest of my life. I would care much less about my falling out hair, wrinkles, belly fat, dry skin, low libido and mood, anxiety, panic attacks, irritability and depression in my 70s and 80s than now. At least, I won't have to drive and work, and can stay home and relax when I feel lousy and achy all over. Every day brings new challenge, once you are used to one symptom, here comes a bunch of new ones, and I simply can't take it anymore. And I don't even have hot flushes yet! So I am working on tweaking my dose, and once correted, it can be compounded in one pill, and the cost will be lower.
So, I am with you, Kimber. I would like to learn more about your BHRT, so may be you can PM me.
Regards,
Dina

Very interesting thread... it's good to hear different opinions about natural vs. replacement. In my case, onset of hypothyroidism really exacerbated my symptoms and I needed help. Am on natural hormones and have seen good relief of hot flashes, heart pounding, sleep problems, etc., which did not improve when I started on hypo med's. [symptoms are similar for that - Hot flashes and freezing at the same time was really interesting, my family thought I was crazy]

At the end of the day, I agree it depends on how much you can tolerate. Have to admit I got overwhelmed by all my stuff and said 'Uncle." Can't say yet how long I'll be on them, but if it means until I can't walk to medicine cabinet anymore, right now so be it.

Best wishes to all for an end to the grief & aggravation!
new

I hate to say it this way for it's obvious crudeness, but if you think about nature and it's way of destruction you can see that nature does away with things that are reproductively obsolete en-masse. Turn of the century women lived to an average age of 45... just past reproductive years. It's only now that medicine has brought us PAST the reproductive years into years of extended life with serious health issues! That's right, a whole second Act lived without the hormones of youth... hmm.. this isn't to say that some women don't have great health and death isn't scratching at their door continually with every creek and cough... because it's not,.... It's only saying that demise tends to strike in the reproductive organs both male and female, and if not a direct hit it's a related to hit...

All my numerous symptoms prior to BHRT added up to one thing: Signs of the Grim Reaper announcing his presence ... I have never felt so close to death with all the myriad symptoms of ill health EVER ... I am a healthy person made sick and weak with hormonal demise.... Without hormones all of the assigned hormonal receptor sites specific to each of the primary and secondary MISSING hormones, of which there are millions, are left open for ill fitting impostors, which means half assed to no ass results! It means, when the wrong key enters the receptor "lock", it unlocks, through enzymatic reaction, Jack Diddle. I don't need to spell out what this means.

I do believe I will stay on BHRT for the rest of my life... and feel infinitely happy for those who don't.

:-) times 5

Eileen

I say if taking hormones improves your quality of life..then go for it....as I intend to do next week after my surgery.

But I must say that I personally disagree with the statement that nature does away with species that are reproductively obsolete. You used the fact that at the turn of the century life expectancy was 45.....which is true. But it has nothing to do with the fact that we reached the end of our reproductive cycle. There were tons of people who lived way beyond the age of 45....My 2 Great grandmothers being a prime example of this...one lived till way in her 80s and the other into her 90s..both were relatively healthy in their older years without hormones.

The life expectancy of 45 was based on the fact of numerous overwhelming infectious diseases. ie. typhoid...cholera....childhood diseases...etc...very high birth mortality rates... as many as 25% of babies born then didnt survive, extremely poor sanitation and hygiene...and even wars...

Life expectancy started rising tremendously with the advent of antbiotics, vaccinations, much better sanitation systems...ie sewer systems and improved hygiene practices...


In a perfect world and a perfect environment our bodies are designed to live indefinately......science bares this out. But unfortunately we live in neither!


Anyways just my two cents worth!....if hormones help I am all for taking them!!!


Barbra

Barbara & Atlanta Girl,

These are all good points to ponder. I think that life is life, and we will all have to eventually get old, no one get's to live for-ever while in this life.

I personally felt horrible for the past two years, more and more bouts of fatigue, stomach problems, insomnia and anxiety.

After starting on NHRT two months ago, I feel more energy and less depressed. I have good days now, and no hot flashes at all. My skin looks better, my outlook is more positive.

Can we consider it a quality of life issue??? For some women, menopause isn't so bad, and for others, we seem to hit the wall (I'm in this group, lol).

Thanks for all the well rounded thinking.

Jules

This is a great thread. I agree that we are living longer because we do not succumb to infectous diseases as much as we used to. But too, my grandmother lived to be 87, she outlived the flu epidemic of 1915 because she had natural immunity. So its also survival of the fittest.
Taking HRT ot BHRT is a very personal choice and I would never put anyone down for their choices. Also, I sense that it might be a long term thing rather than just taking it for a year or two. Not sure if I like that. I am on Prempro because I had sick headaches last year that landed me in the ER twice. Quality of life has to be considered. If I am able to enjoy life more, perform daily activities, see friends and travel, then it is worth it to me NOW.
Also, if we took the natural line of thinking to the nth degree, we would not take vitamins, flu shots, or any meds even antacids.
E.

I agree with all and want to add that because we are not being taken out by infectious diseases as much and other daily predators, as our early ancestors were, we are around longer to experience life without hormones, if we choose. THIS is where nature leaves off and we live on.....

With all the 'icks' I have experienced with a lack of hormones rushing threw my system, I'd gladly stay on them the rest of my life!! I even tried lowering my estrogen intake about 6 months ago and that was the biggest mistake ever. My body needs it. I slowly lowered my estrogen and after a few months, life was untolerable. I ended up in the er twice with crushing migraines that effected my balance. I also missed 2 months of work because of it.

I have read more good things about estrogen than bad, and my dr. is for it...she uses it herself. My mom had cateracs, high blood pressure, a detached retina, and osteoperosis. She was never on estrogen and I feel bad that she wasn't...she may be alive today if she had. It's been proven over and over that women on estrogen (the bio kind) have a lower risk of all these things. And yes, theres that study the WHI did..but if you search on it, you'll soon discover how flawed that was. My dr. told me that several years ago.

I've followed too closely in my Moms path already, I'll do anything to lower my risk of heart disease, eye problems, and crippling osteo.

If going without hormones works for some of you gals, I'm glad for you. My genetic makeup does better with it.

At least we'll all agree (I think)...it's good we have options!!
June

I was asking myself the same question several months ago. Should I go try to wean myself off my bio's or stay on them for a while? I'm taking the sublingual tablet recommended by Pete and Janna and they have given me back my life. I'm 42 with 2 families. I run a medical clinic with 2 MALE drs and 7 girls and at home I have a loving husband and three kids in college. I figured I'll stay on them til I'm done working at least because when I wasn't on them I could not live normally. I had panic attacks 3-4 times a day lasting 1-2 hours each, crying hysterically at least once a day and scaring my children. It's not worth it when I see the scare in my family's faces. Oh and getting up at 2 am wasn't working either cause the kids would just have gone to bed and here I am getting up and figured might as well do housework or something to keep busy.(didn't work!) So I think I'll just take my 2 tablets and everyone including myself is happy. Especially when your husband gives you flowers all the time cause you scared him sh-tless going wacky!

So I agree that each woman must make the decision for herself and in this field there is not a wrong decision. This site really helps because by talking with so many women we can decide on so many options to see what will work for each of us. I'm on 1.25 sublingual tablets and take many vitamins. I had started on the patch but that wasn't enough for me. Pete and Janna read all my panels and now I'm on the tablets and I have my life back.

So many of us here, especially those of us who are older and as my Father-in-Law used to say, "Have heard the Owl and have seen the Lion," have echoed a common theme.."Quality of Life." It is this aspect which gives some of us the courage to go back to our HRT. Two weeks ago, I began using the Vivelle Dot, delivering 0.025mg./day along with a compounded Progesterone Cream, 10 mg/day..So far, I feel a slight malaise at times but I also have moments of inspiration and happiness which are new. In the past, I had symptoms of intolerance to most forms of progesterone..However, this one is great..I think the pharmacist I am using knows what she is doing and is preparing this very well. My Dr. recommended this particular one because he trusts her. I am in the process of catching up on my medical screenings..I am hoping all is well..I think we all feel stressed when we have our bodies explored for defects. Thanks for all your posts..You have meant the world to me during my own trying times over the years.

Yes there are days of that slight malaise, but then I seem to have more good days now than in the past couple of years. Funny how hormones, can turn things around.

I started on the NHRT at the end of November. At that time, I felt like I was ready to just give up, I had zero energy!!!! Hot flashes, couldn't sleep. I have a busy life, but couldn't seem to "Want" to live it.

I'm taking it one day at a time, and learning (with the help of all you wonderful ladies), to be proactive in my health care.

Jules

I, too, agree that it is an individual thing. When the quality of your life has been impacted to the extent that your family and friends don't recognize you anymore, to the extent that you don't know who you are anymore, then it is time for BNHT... Now I have received the info from the doctors here and am not trying to figure out how I'm going to afford it... There are many issues involved with this...and insurance is one of them...

Qualityof life is definitely a major issue. When peri began for me, I simply could not function without NHRT (oral estradiol and progesterone), so I was on it for over 3 yrs. I often wonder how women 100 years ago dealt with such incapacitating symptoms.

I stopped the hormones for a year because the symptoms seemed to have lessened. Then the symptoms came back hard, so I started NHRT again. I have much more energy but can't seem to think as well as without the hormones. My ability to concentrate is much less. Kind of the same effect as an antidepressant -- just feel spaced out a lot. Does anyone else get this side effect?

I can't decide whether to continue the NHRT this time, but I probably will because what good is it to be mentally sharp if you don't have any energy to do anything?

Anyhow, I'm hoping all this passes soon since I'm 52 1/2 years old and surely near the end of peri

hopeful,

Definitely spaced out w/out my estradiol & prometrium... also hot flashing, weepy, headachy, sleep deprived, and palpitating mess! As now also have to regulate low thyroid w/ med's [symptoms can be very similar], am taking natural HRT faithfully so that quality of life is improved.

My sis [who's 60 this year] says she's going to take her hormones "'til I can't walk across the room to get to the pill bottle!" She loves how she feels...

I absolutely support any and all choices women take that work best for them. It's just that I reached a point where I needed help w/ mine and after a long discussion w/ 2 GYNs [one being my brother], we all agreed that replacement was the way I should go. Time will tell how long...

My best to all,
new

New,

Thanks for the support. Hope the natural HRT continues to work for you.

Hopeful

Right back at ya, if you decide to go back on...

new

I feel like I may be FINALLY getting my hormones balanced. Started taking the natural HRT 2 months ago and idoine capsules for my low thryoid.

Haven't had ones of those wierd headaches or dizzy spells for 13 days now (But I am always on guard )