I joined this Board a couple weeks ago and have enjoyed reading/learning about this "wonderful" phase in our lives. I am a little put off, however, by so much pharmaceutical bashing. If one can get by with natural remedies, more power to them, however I find all the criticism of the pharma companies to be unnecessary. Pharma company's research and development has made great strides in modern medicine and I hate to think of where we would be without them. Please try not to labeling them as all bad or all good. Just a newbies suggestion!

Welcome! I'm one of those pharmaceutical bashers. I give my opinion. You give yours. You don't have to agree with me. It's true the drug companies have done a lot of good things. HOWEVER, I think through the years they, like most industries, have gone far away from caring about humanity in favor of BIG BUCKS. As for all of their research, most studies are funded by the drug companies so that their results will be favorable to their sales. In fact, they rarely, if ever, use anything other than placebo in their double-blind studies. If they were really interested in what was best for humans, they'd occasionally test against herbs or vitamins, etc. to see if natural solutions might work as well. My brother-in-law is a physician-turned-heretic. I've learned a lot about the big drug companies' tricks from him. There are way too many tricks to go into here, however. One recent one (for the record) involved the panel on cholesterol that lowered the numbers so that more people would be "elligible" to take statins. Guess what? Everyone on the panel also sat on a drug company's board of directors. I simply don't think we should blindly believe what any company says or does when that company stands to make millions off of us. At least investigate motives. Don't you agree?

Well, ladies, like it or not, we need the drug companies to do research for new drugs and new cures. If they can't make money to recoup their costs, including the potential costs of future litigation, why on earth would they be in business? You wouldn't invest your hard-earned money in something that wouldn't pay off, why should they? That's just reality.

My parents paid out almost $800 in prescriptions a month. They are on a very fixed income. Sometimes it came down to meds or food. Now tell me drug companies are not ripping us off. Africa pays about 50 cents a pill for their AIDS drugs. We get the same pill for 3-4 dollars a pill. Same pill, different country. Because they are a poor country. Our politicians should look around, our counrty is going to HELL in a hand basket. Our middle class is pretty much gone. We now have rich and poor. We need to take better care of our seniors and our children. No child left behind, Ha, what about the ones living in garbage cans, because the richest country in the world cant provide for them, but we always seem to have plenty of money for every other country. Ok, I'm off my soapbox now!! Needed to vent. Peace AA

EXACTLY! But since profit is THE bottom line (as it must be in any corporation, duh), think twice before using any medicine and investigate other alternatives.

Again, EXACTLY. 100,000 Americans don't die every year from (properly prescribed) medications because they are risk-free, now do they? (And remember that over a million who must be hospitalized due to adverse reactions, whereas only about 10 or so people die from herb effects, generally in schizophrenics, statistically.) I don't think anyone on this website has ever said some drugs aren't lifesavers. But that doesn't mean we should stick our heads in the sand and not notice the problems and THE GREED of any corporation, does it? Yes, arsenic will kill you. However, as Dr. Weil says, most doctors think if you eat anything out in your yard it will kill you. He said it is actually a rare plant that will kill you. I'm only pointing this out because doctors have been brainwashed that chemicals are better than any of those "dangerous" natural alternatives. I simply do not trust big drug companies motives any more. Can anyone tell me why they invented horse estrogen (with something like a hundred estrogens in it unknown to the human body) for women in menopause rather than making an estrogen women already had? So they could patent it, right? They had to do that to make money. But it really was not the best thing to do for women, now was it? These are the reasons we must question everything any corporation tells us is good. We need to wake up. Again, pointing out the pitfalls does not mean never take a needed medication. It means to be aware and question! Doctors are another story. Most doctors do, in my opinion, want to cure their patients. But they also depend on sickness for their income. You can't separate the two. Heart surgeons, for example, most likely know that studies show that bypass patients do not live any longer than patients with the same level of disease who just opt for drugs and lifestyle changes (and keep in mind that strict dietary changes--Dean Ornish trials--got better results than drugs). So do doctors keep operating to save people or to keep their income? Maybe a little of both? I was born a skeptic, I guess. Sorry for the rant P.S. I also do not trust the huge business in alternative treatments at all! Certainly a profit motive there. I'm careful of any supplements I ingest, and I do the research.

But, but, AA, how can you say such a thing? They only want the best for us!

Cyndey: I hope I spelled your name right first of all. I have been watching this thread for a couple of days and I can't believe someone hasn't asked this before. Why do you care so much? I haven't seen anyone here bashing pharmaceutical companies. I have only seen women trying to help other women suggesting things they might try and telling about things they have tried that didn't work. HRT is a big subject here, but it is also a big subject in the news. Some women on this board choose to take it, others do not. I have taken drugs from my doctor and from alternative sources and if either one doesn't work, I get rid of it and try something else. I have taken Elmmiron, which is a terrible drug and should be taken off the market, yet, I also take Xanax and Tylenol 3 for migraines and a blood pressure pill. All of these are prescribed by my doctor and all of these are in the older class of drugs. My doctor is always trying to push the newest thing on me. Why? When thee older drugs work fine and the newer ones make me sick, why would I want to try something and get side effects and THEN be put back on the older drugs. It seems like every other week, the pharmas are coming up with something new that is supposed to be better than the old drugs. They do this for one reason, profit! My question is this, and before I ask it, I would remind you that all the women here are VERY nice and HELPFUL, but I have noticed when someone is this interested in something like this that they have a personal interest in whatever it is that is engaging them. Do you, your husband, or someone you know, work for one of the pharmaceutical companies? I can think of no other reason why this would bother you so. I say this with the intent of merely trying to figure this thread out because I am curious and as no slam against you personally. I really am just curious. Love and peace.

Does anyone here remember the 60's, when one of the mantras was "better living through chemistry", and everyone was "doing drugs" (well, almost everyone) Well, there CAN be better living through chemistry, literally. Personally, I love science and all the progress that has been made in order to provide more quality to our lives. Look at the advances in hip surgeries, heart surgeries, laproscopies, etc.... And the newer drugs to help relieve the symptoms of anxiety, arthritis, heart disease, high blood pressure, et al.... The problem is not, as I see it, the researchers and the quest for knowledge and progress. It's the government and their bed-partners, the American corporate mind-set, and the WTO, and the G-8. When are we ever going to learn that capitalism, unchecked by humanitarianism, is a vile and greedy worm. On paper, capitalism creates competition, which is a good thing. But when the government gets involved, then competition is gone and you get secret payoffs, non-bid contracts (Haliburton), and all kinds of adverse situations... Such as out-of-control pharm. profits at the expense of the masses. Wake up, Americans. Government is designed to serve and protect the people, not create multibillionaires out of people in high places. Just my 2 cents. Thanks.

[quote]Originally posted by matoaka And the newer drugs to help relieve the symptoms of anxiety, arthritis, heart disease, high blood pressure, et al.... I do have to point out the above quote and the obvious, why are "they" not treating the cause and not just the symptoms. I agree with your observation that we all have to do our own research and take responsibility for our health. Pink

First, no, I didn't ask this question because I have a personal interest (i.e. family member working for pharma co.). I just notice that alot of helpful posts from people seem to interject a negative comment about pharma companies. I know that other countries pay less for alot of drugs but I also know that the US is the leader in R&D and they, many times, are riding on the coat tails of what has been developed in the US. If a doctor refuses to meet with a pharmaceutical rep, I think that is a mistake. How else are they going to learn about a new drug and better yet, ask questions? Something else to consider: in this age of "managed care", insurance companies hold the pharma companies hostage. By this I mean that the insurance companies have lists of approved drugs that can be on their formularies, thus this list is the only prescriptions a given doctor can prescribe from for their patients. How do the pharma companies go about getting their drug on the insurance formulary? They have to pay huge sums of money (during contract negotiations). This is a fact that probably not alot of people know. So, insurance companies play a big part in why drugs are so expensive. This info can easily be researched. I think people would be surprised to know it. Insurance companies have people who's job it is to contract with pharma companies and the more money they can garner, that's a feather in their cap with their insurance employer. My intend is not to start any trouble with my post, but rather, it is just an observation. I guess I see pharma companies as providing a big benefit and I realize it's not all their fault that costs are high. Cyndy

Cyndy, I understand. And I never thought you were with Big Pharma, lol. I just think everyone has a right to express an opinion, whether it is viewed negatively by someone or not (as long as it is not any kind of personal attack). Also, I've read about a lot of corruption in Big Pharma (calling it Big Pharma is not an insult by the way--that's what the Wall Street Journal calls them) and most all corporations, and people should be aware of it, in my opinion. The gouging is a whole other story, which I won't go into. I just think they push drugs on people who either A)don't need them, it will harm, or C) who could change their diets and lifestyles and get far better results. And I don't like that. I also have a very firm belief from everything I've read that Big Pharma controls the FDA. So, we will have to agree to disagree and unless I am told not to post, you'll have to ignore my anti-pharmaceutical comments.

[quote]Originally posted by Pink [quote]Originally posted by matoaka And the newer drugs to help relieve the symptoms of anxiety, arthritis, heart disease, high blood pressure, et al.... I do have to point out the above quote and the obvious, why are "they" not treating the cause and not just the symptoms. I agree with your observation that we all have to do our own research and take responsibility for our health. Pink [/quote]Great point. That's really my biggest problem with pharmaceuticals and most other medical treatments. A couple of examples. According to the National Academy of Science's Institute of Medicine, 60% of Americans are overweight. This can lead to almost every chronic disease known to man. And surveys show the majority of doctors not only do not counsel patients on proper diet, they do not even mention the patient's weight problem. And it is estimated that only 5-10% of cancer, for example, is due to genetics. However, up to 60% is believed to be influenced or caused by diet alone (not to mention other "environmental" factors, like lack of exercise, X-rays, etc.). But doctors are brainwashed to push drugs and surgery. A lot of the brainwashing is by the pharmaceutical industry. If we all engage in good health practices, the drug companies' income could be reduced by half. If your livelihood depends on sickness, well, figure it out. None of that means that *some* drugs for *some* people are not appropriate or beneficial, of course (I figured everyone would know that). Prevention--an ounce and all of that.

That's another issue: the thousands of chemicals, from weed killers to pesticides, that have never been tested (years ago, they didn't test them or rarely and they never left the market) and may be the cause of the rising cancers in this country. But we are in agreement about the government being in the pocket of Big Business

Irish, I think you are right about the newer drugs. Did you read where a lot of the older ones are considered more effective (an example they gave on the news was the old "water pills" for high blood pressure really being much safer than the newer stuff) and safer? I read (I read too much!) that you should not try any drug on the market for less than a year or even longer. A lot of the side effects, even deaths, show up then that did not in the research. Do you mind my asking about the Tylenol 3? I have migraines and haven't really been offered anything for pain. I could ask about the Tylenol next time. They just want me to take SSRIs, which I can NOT tolerate. It seems to be their first line of treatment, no matter what you have.

Like you, I'm really interested in science. But I hate to think we need to keep advancing medical procedures so we can keep eating junk and not exercising and getting continually stressed out, etc. Like, how many of those things you mention would be needed if people ate like the Okinawans, for example? With their lifelong exercise, high nutritional diet, spiritual beliefs, etc. they have a fraction of everything we fall prey to. (And they rarely need those "hip replacements" (one of your examples) due to their diet and exercise habits.) They also have the highest soy consumption in the world, by the way (Just thought that was interesting.) Okay, okay, I'm in a talky mood today, even more than usual. I'm all wound up because I went to the mall and got some great bargains! I'll shut up now and model my new clothes for my husband (there's a sexy nightie in there, which I normally just wear his undershirts to bed).

AimeeDecorates: I used to take Cafergot for migraines, but could never figure out the right time to take it. Cafergot is one of those drugs that you have to take as soon as your symptoms start and I never could get it down, so I asked my doctor for Tylenol 3, a very old drug and pretty safe. Tylenol 3 is not totally safe, nothing is, but yoou don't have to take it at the first sign of a migraine and it DOES take the pain away. I know people who are injecting themselves with Sumitripan, (sp.) and Imitrex. That stuff is not for me. Doctors don't like to give out Tylenol3 because there is codeine in it and they worry about drug addicts taking it, but there was a big study done that showed if you used Tylenol 3 for migraines or chronic pain, that you would NOT get hooked on it and would use it for the purpose it was meant for. My doctor and I worked out that I needed something and how much and we discovered that for me, Tylenol3 does the trick. I always ask for the older class of drugs. I take the oldest blood pressure pill and the Tylenol3 and Xanax, which has been around forever. Like you, my system cannot abide SSRI's and I have tried them all. Ask your doctor about Tylenol3. I have never had a reaction to it and have been taking it for years! I will always ask my doctor for the oldest drug because like you, I don't trust anything until it has been on the market for a few years. I got into the SSRI trap because my therapist insisted I try it and to shut him up, I did. It was a disaster, I went back to Xanax and even though I still have anxiety attacks, I know what to expect from Xanax. I know what it can do and it's limits, but I don't have to worry about a bunch of side effects like suicidal thoughts and feeling like I have the flu. Ask about the Ty3. Migraines are hideous. I have had them since I was in fifth grade and my daughter who is now nineteen got her first one in, you guessed it, fifth grade! All my best to you. Love and peace.

Thanks for the info, Irish. I won't take the popular migraine drugs because I've read about those who've had heart attacks from them, even young people without heart disease. My migraines are the hormonal migraine type; thank God I didn't have them as a child, like you did. I'm really sorry you've had to suffer all of these years.

For those who mentioned the high price of drugs, I heard today (on a stock-type financial show--it's always about that bottom line!) that "mom & pop" pharmacies in California had filed suit against the (don't know which ones) major pharmaceutical companies for "price fixing." The suit alleges that there was a "conspiracy" to "artificially raise drug prices" and some generic drug makers were "bribed to stop the release" of their generics. We'll see what happens. The pharmacies are losing money. I missed exactly the reasons for this (and it wasn't due to U.S. competitor pharmacies like WalMart), but I think it was that Americans are going out of the country for drugs. Not sure. The attorney also said that the drug companies had "set themselves up as though they were the government" to prevent Americans from crossing the borders for medicines. (I don't know why he said that, because they already control the FDA. There is NO safety issue in buying drugs from Canada. Gosh, even Clark Howard rants about that, lol.) Also in the news, medical journals have said they will only publish studies that were entered into the registry. The American Medical Association has "wised up to the the FDA and drug company shenanigans of withholding research results when they come out negative." I'm hoping things will start to change (in both drug safety and price savings) for those who must take medications.

Ok, so I know that big drug companies are evil, yada yada - that being said, I was put off by the "welcome letter" (and emailed Dearest as such) because of all the references to the evils of synthetic hormones. I don't want to be part of a website hosted by Tom Cruise! My point being, as women, we all make the decisions that are right for us - and I would hate to see anyone on this site criticized for taking HRT. If this is truly a website to support all menopausal women, then we should support any choice a woman makes to get her through it. And while we're on the subject, what frequently gets me through my menopausal days are my Starbucks (evil caffiene), Hershey's kisses (evil sugar), and nightly glass of wine (evil alcohol - see quote, below). Can we all just lighten up and give ourselves a break? (sorry for the rant)

No one is criticized for her choices here - for any reason. We're (mostly) all very nice women helping each other through this miserable time. And it's against the board guidelines to criticize others, so your worries are unfounded. You can criticize ideas, have discussions and such, but not criticize other people...including Dearest. Since it's her site, she does all the work, pays all the money, and has for 12 years or so now, if she wants to send out a welcome letter, she's certainly entitled to - and to her opinions which she has written in it.

No one is forced you to do anything against her will. Perhaps you should read a bit more of the boards to see how they operate before sending off a critical email to the woman who provides them for all of us.

Everyone here is supported no matter what her choice - but you would be amazed how many women don't read and learn about what they take. Amazingly, many women just take whatever the doctor hands her without question. Power Surge is the place to learn about all possible options.

Yes, I agree with MaryO, Sandy.

Please spend some time checking out the boards, and you'll see that there are women here on all kinds of medication or natural regimens as we are trying (DESPERATELY AT TIMES) to get our symptoms under control.

Also, in the transcripts library, there are doctors representing various approaches to symptom relief, some dealing with hormone replacement therapies, others more interested in natural treatments.

Everyone,

I work for one of the "evil" pharma companies and I am extremely proud of the company that I work for and what we do. I am a firm believer that God supplies what we need, so I think one should try a natural approach when trying to deal with a health issue, but I also know that He gave us intelligence and the ability to help one another. If the natural approaches aren't helping then by all means other options should be evaluated. I am on an AD (which I never thought I have to do) because of difficulites in life and the onset of peri at the same time, but I did try herbals and relaxation techniques for awhile first. The AD I chose is not manufactured by the company I work for only because I found one that did not increase my appetite (weight is something I struggle with). There are many people who would die or have no quality of life without commercially made drugs which cost billions of dollars to research and of which only a few make it to drug store shelves. It's an expensive process but what price can one put on your life or quality of it?

I know internally we are taught to value the patient and their safety overall. I think each individual situation is different and everyone must try different approaches and determine what is best for them. I am grateful to live in the U.S. and to have the medical facilities and drugs available that we have, and the right to chose how I want to deal with my health. I also know that other countries (Canada included) do not have the controls regarding the manufacturing that we do here in the U.S. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? I think so.....

I also believe at times patients are quick to allow themselves to be medicated and doctors are typically willing to do it. In most instances it doesn't hurt a thing to take a little time to determine what one should do and to figure out what works best. Weigh the pros and cons. Moderation in all (including drugs for maintaining health) is the key.

Thanks for listening.....

Very wise words, Teejay.

When I was in the deepest part of my depression, I wasn't sure I was going to make it. Although I didn't get to the point of considering suicide in a serious way, I COMPLETELY understood why people take their lives. It felt like I was hanging on by a very fragile thread.

I had tried all the natural approaches including months of being on St. John's Wort, and was sinking deeper and deeper.

THANK GOD for the help I got from the Lexapro. As resistant as I was to the thought of taking AD's, it became obvious there was no choice but to do anything possible to get myself out of the hole.

Although the pharma companies themselves are driven TOO MUCH by profit margins, I believe the chemists who work to find ways to alleviate our physical ills are rather driven by a sincere desire to make a difference. I'm grateful for their work!

joliejacq,

Unfortunately like all of the world pharma is out to make money, but really who isn't? If they can't make money they won't manufacture drugs. I too am on Lexapro (have only been on it about five weeks) and am seeing a big difference.

I was so depressed I found myself for the very first time in a hole I couldn't get out of. In addition I was obsessing with my health thinking I had some terminal disease which caused major anxiety. I wasn't sleeping, lost weight, couldn't focus, pretty much at the point of not functioning. I spent a couple of months pursuing other options but to no avail. I was sinking deeper. Like you I would never consider taking my life, but I must admit that if God had made the decision to I was more than ready to accept it. The way I was feeling made me feel like life wasn't good anymore and I was tired ot if. I can relate to your comment about holding on by a thread.

While I still worry sometimes about all of these crazy things that are happening to me it is much less. I really don't believe I could have made it without help. At first I was embarrassed to think I couldn't handle it, but how much can even a strong person take before they will break? Even the strongest have a point. Now I look at it from a different perspective. I helped myself. I pursued different avenues and thought about it and ultimately made the decisions that I thought were best and necessary for me. I intend to try to wean off of the Lexapro as soon as I'm post menopausal. In the interim I'm doing what I felt I had to do.

Take care!

Quote: "Did you read where a lot of the older ones are considered more effective (an example they gave on the news was the old "water pills" for high blood pressure really being much safer than the newer stuff) and safer? " End Quote

I agree with this statement. I take blood pressure medication (from my primary care physician) and regardless of what I took, even higher and higher doses, it never seemed like we could get my blood pressure down. I went to a cardiologist, and he said some of that "new" stuff doesn't work as well as the "older" drugs, so he put me on a really small dose of an old-fashioned diuretic, and Voila! my blood pressure has been great since then! Also, I have rheumatoid arthritis, and again the primary care physician has put me on several different NSAIDs, one of which screwed up my kidney function (which thankfully came back after discontinuing the drug) and also on Vioxx. When I had to go off Vioxx (which wasn't really working that great for me anyway), I started taking an "old" NSAID drug, Relafen, which has been around forever, and has been shown to be much easier on the stomach and kidneys (major side effects from NSAIDs). It works better for me, and apparently is safer. So much for the "new" medications!