I am currently using the following NHRT: 0.5mg Bi-est topical (1/8t. per day) 1 mg. testosterone cream (1%) daily 2% compounded progesterone cream, 1/8t. am and 1/4t. pm Because I have been noticing more hairloss, loss of libido and sexual response, loss of breast fullness and slight depression,...my comp. pharmacist suggested a saliva test. The results are very confusing and upsetting to me. Does anyone help explain how my pg. and testosterone levels could be so high when my dosing is quite low??? I do not have other symptoms of high testosterone other than the hairloss...I actually show more symptoms of LOW testosterone (and estrogen). My results are: progesterone: HIGH at 6724 pg/ml, with the range being 500-3000 pg/ml testosterone: HIGH at 196 pg/ml, with normal range being 20-50 estradiol: In range at 7.2 pg/ml, with range being 1.5-10 pg/ml I could have sworn that my test results would have shown a lack of estrogen/testosterone because of the symptoms I'm having. I don't understand this. I was told that saliva tests are unreliable and usually test very high by another pharmacist. Can anyone help explain? Kathy

Hi Kathy- I can't explain your results but I use saliva testing and my results are low for estrodial and progesterone, which make sense with regard to my most troubling symptoms anxiety and depression. Hope someone can help. What does the Dr say that performed the test? Sandy

Well, the dr. that "ordered" the test hadn't seen the results yet...I had to hunt them down at the pharmacy they were ordered through. They're in the same town...conveniently, they were (I assume)sitting on the pharmacist's desk, waiting for her to decide to come into work and then share them with my doctor. All this, after I called last week to verify that the results would be at my doctor's in time for my appt. this past Tues. Idiots. So, as far as I know the pharmacist maybe hasn't even been back into work to see them yet OR fax them over to my doctor. Does anyone here know the difference between "ng/ml and pg/ml"??? Also, my doctor doesn't advocate saliva tests...she likes to do the blood serum levels. It was the pharmacist there in town who compounds my hormones that wanted to do the saliva testing. That was a great idea. Now what? I'd really like to get my advice/prescriptions from someone like Pete Hueseman or at WIP, but my doctor will not cooperate. I've asked her to do it several times...she claims that if the compounding pharmacy is in a different state that she can't legally prescribe to them...it's against the law. Is that right? I get the feeling she's feeding me a line of crap. (sorry) The doctor (Zava?) at ZRT, in his comments, stated that the high prog. levels suggest bioaccumulation due to excessive dosing, slow metabolic clearance, or supplemention less than 12 hrs. prior to specimen collection. He also said that levels above therapeutic range may eventually down-regulate estrogen receptors causing tissue desensitization, which could lead to symptoms of hormone deficiency. He adds that the elevated testosterone level suggests excessive supplementation or an adequate dosage with slow metabolic clearance. Clear as mud! Now what? Kathy

I am new here but I am also using NHRT and had a saliva test (I had a total hysterectomy last August and actually have had 3 tests done over the past year) I am sad to hear that some feel the saliva test is questionable. I have depended on this for my "relief" and still am working toget the hormones balanced. I feel relatively ok but have had issues with anxiety and bladder infections. Bi-est .625 mg (topical) was just added to my Prog. 25 mg and Test. 1 mg compounded cream 2x daily program. Until now I did not need any estrogen. I will also be adding DHEA 5mg 2x daily starting next week. That is a very low dose but my symptoms indicated that this would be a good thing per the doctor and pharmacist. I don't know what to add to those that have already posted.

Have you guys checked out the Ask the Expert section. I suspect the pharmacist can answer your questions. I found the gyno to be very quick in responding. Maybe either of them can shed some light on the saliva test results.

You know, the only problem I have in asking "experts" anything is that they all disagree. But it's good to ask, I think, as long as you take it with a grain of salt (and get like 10 other opinions from other experts then draw your own conclusion). My niece, for example, had twins 7 weeks ago (2 months premature). When they were in ICU, my niece said every question she would ask one of the doctors, another would disagree the next day. On the treatment, condition, you name it. Medicine is *barely* a science. It really is an art.