I am not a vain person and I don't want to look 20 again but I feel self conscious about the bags under my eyes! What's wrong with a little "work" if it makes one feel less tired and alot better about oneself? We color our hair, buy new clothes, paint our nails. So, why is it that all of a sudden we're "vain" when we want our tired old eyes, or cheek pads lifted? Does anyone feel this way?? I think it would be a big boost to my sagging(excuse the pun!) self esteem!

I think if you truly want cosmetic surgery and can afford it,go for it.But be sure that's what you really want first... I have thought about having my breasts and nose done.I haven't because i keep thinking that even if i have those done, I will still feel the same way i do now and it will be wasted money.

If I had the money and could afford it, oh girl, I would have the whole package renovated. I spent most of my life working outside and have quite a few wrinkles but I think they add character and I like the way they look when I smile, but the rest of it.... This neck! that crepe-papery skin, where did that come from? I hate it! The turkey neck sag just adds years to my looks, I can't wear chokers anymore cause I look like a plucked chicken. I used to have a long beautiful neckline. And the waggling jowls sinking into that neck--I'd get rid of 'em! I have always been small busted and it's ok with me--but how can such pissant little breasts sag sooo far?! It would seem impossible! I would have them stapled back up where they belong. I would have my teeth totally remodled. The works, whatever that is. Replaced, bonded, bleached--everything. That's my wish list. If I had the 20 or 30 thousand dollars it would take to get such a renovation wild horses couldn't stop me. I'm not dead yet, but I'm starting to look like it. You think all those rich babes in Hollywood stay looking good for so many years just because they have good genes or some fabulous health routine. No way! It takes money, and plenty of it. If I had it by god, that's just how I'd spend it. Anybody want to contribute with a large donation?

Plastic surgery entails much more risk than painting one's nails, coloring one's hair,or buying new clothes. If it makes you happy, GO FOR IT.

I agree wholeheartedly, Chris!! Only, the point was that it's not considered "vanity" as is plastic surgery. I am going through so much right now, that even if i wanted my under eye bags removed, it would be too stressful. Gonna have to wait on that one.

If I had the money, I would get a facelift tomorrow. They can be done under a local anasthetic these days, so you don't have to run the risks associated with a general. There are some less expensive options if the full works are out of the question financially - fillers and peels spring to mind. Once you are fully informed and have chosen a good surgeon, I also say GO FOR IT!

For those of you ladies seriously interested in this subject there is a good article in today's, N.Y. Times health section.

Chris--You know they don't have the New York Times here in Moscow so I can't read the article. But does it say anything about neck fixes? I swear this sort of wrinkly saggy skin adds 10 years to my face. I don't need that! What is with this crepe-papery look? Can I get rid of it or fix it some how? I don't want a face lift, I want a neck tightening.

Isthisme, too bad you're not in Boston, MA. They're doing something called a "mini" lift, either posterior or anterior, which is done under local. you go in on a friday and go back to work on monday. I wish I could do the eye bag thing mostly but will have to wait.

I always thought that when I turned 50, I might get a face lift. My eyelids have sagged noticeably within the last couple of years. Now I'm more prone to try some of the newer alternatives first. I've been using skin care products called NuSkin. They have a "facelift in a jar" and I saw results in the first use. The girls at work are loving this product. My boss is a distributor. I'm also using the whitening lotion to help even out my skin tone. Surprisingly, these products do not irriate my skin as most others do. I also use Philosophy products which are more natural but the vitamin c powder mixed with the lotion burns my skin. I use their lotions, makeup remover, and a an exfoliation kit. It's nice stuff - really makes your skin feel great. What others products does everyone else use that help you? Tina

I've been using sunblock and Retin A, since the age of 28, as I thought ahead. Alpha-hydroxy acids, as well. Also, the don't call it beauty sleep for nothing. That one eludes me lately, but I notice the improvement when I sleep regularly.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I use Renova once in a while, not daily because it dries out my skin - I use it about once every other week. What's nice is no one can believe I'm 45 but that's due to the Italian in me. Also, my skin became oily about 2 years ago - go figure !! Tina

You girls don't know how lucky you are! I live now in Moscow, Russia and the language problem is a real struggle. A lot of pharmeceuticals that are prescription only in the west are available here over-the-counter and cheaply---but you have to know the Russian word for them. Cosmetics come either from Europe or Russia. I have a tube of some kind of face scrub (I think) from Finland right now, and I'm not sure what it is, I don't read Finnish or any of the other languages on the label. All I can do most of the time is read the ingredient list and evaluate, unless it's a Russian product, then I can't read anything on it at all. I bought a face cream (or so I thought) because it was in French and Russian and I could read the ingredient label. But it seemed strange when I used it. So I took it to my Russian teacher and asked her what it was. It turned out to be makeup remover! Sigh*

This is how I feel exactly. I guess that I could have a dreaded disease and then all of this would seem superficial. What I've been thinking about these days is just going for an initial consultatin with a cosmetic surgeon. They put a picture of you in a computer and with a special program, they show you what they could do to help you look better. The only drawback to this is that I'd find out how much better I could look, and then I'd want to have everything done. I don't think any of it is covered by insurance, and I couldn't afford very much out of pocket. Oh well, it would be fun to find out anyhow.

I AM ME, I am a Finn, but don't know Finnish. I'd ask my instructor!!!! Hopefully you won't be stuck there forever!!!!!

Also, I'd take a trip to Scandanavia, as it was nothing like your Russian experience. I'm part Finn, anywho.

Is This Me, I read two books by a dermatologist, The Wrinkle Cure and The Perricone Prescription by Nicholas Perricone M.D. The doctor has a revolutionary plan of action that empowers you to firm your face/neck tone your figure, and improve your overall health and apperance. The supplements used and the before and after photos are amazing in this book! (No surgery) My skin has never been better since being on this protocol.

Dreamharp--I want details!! Tell me more! Is this a topical application? A drug regimen? A cosmetic? I can order books online, but it takes a month to get them. Can you give me more info here? This neck needs help. The sooner, the better. Waiting to see your reply....

I'm new to the boards! This whole facelift, tuck, wrinkle remover, whatever. . . I'm 50 but most people guess me to be 45. Now I have thought about cosmetic intervention recently; you know the reasons. Everything just started looking different in the mirror within the last year or so. This is my thought; I'd spend all this money, time, and risk getting artificial help for the way I look and the minute someone finds out my actual age, the first thing they're going to think is "she's had a facelift" or "I wonder how much she paid to look like that". So what I intend to do is to try my best to be happy with what God gave me. I don't think we were meant to look like we are 50 when we are 60. Take vitamins, use lots of moisturizer, make your hair whatever color you want, always smile (wrinkles only come where smiles have been) and remember "it's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got."

You may look 45 now.....but not for long. Natural smatcheral! I don't want to look like my skin is pulled tight as a drum but this saggy, droopy, wrinkly new me stares back at me in the mirror and I don't recognize who I'm looking at. And I don't like it. We have doctors, we have medicine, we have science, we have technology, I say we use em! Anybody who disagrees can send me a letter with a 37 cent stamp through the US mail. It'll take a month to get here. Maybe that'd be more natural. Phooey!

Part of the protocol is to use a supplement, DMAE a powerful antioxidant. This stimulates nerve function and the muscles to contract and tighten under skin. It prevents and can reverse sagging of the skin. I use DMAE orally and topically with an electrical muscle stimulating device. Dr. Perricone reveals his theory that aging is caused by imflammation at the cellular level. Eating lots of wild salmon and cleaning up the diet can make a big difference in skin tone. There are a lot of supplements orally and topically that are used in the program. It can be expensive and seems like "snake oil". However, I experiment and use the products that I think are best and buy wholesale. The more closely you stick to his diet plan, the better results you will receive. The diet and antioxidants will controll inflammation, fluid retention,and as a result your skin will glow and your energy will be up. His book also gives the latest news on age-defying technology. Try using a DMAE lotion on your skin as a trial test, it is not expensive.

As for worrying that plastic surgery is considered vain, I'd say, Who cares what anyone thinks? That's my most positive meno benefit--no longer caring what anyone thinks about any choice I make in my own life, because, basically, it's my life. I just wish society did not make it necessary for women to base their self-esteem on how they look.

I have a strange question for you all. Lets just imagine for a minute that you are the only "sighted" person in a world where everyone (except the cosmetic surgeon--ha) was blind. Would it still be important to you to have the cosmetic surgery? I thought of this question when I was considering having some work done myself. My answer is that it would no longer be important to me to have the work done. Why go through all that if no one could see me anyway? So it would seem that my answer indicates that the reason I'd get the work done is because of other people. Seems a little superficial somehow.......What do you think?

If everyone in the world were blind, then no, it wouldn't matter what one looked like. Actually, it wouldn't matter if we all walked around naked, had sex on the front lawn, performed bathroom duties in the middle of the road, ate with our feet or spray painted graffitti on the church walls. The fact of the matter is not everyone in the world is blind and therefore we observe certain rules of decency and good taste. So, no, I don't think you are being superficial at all when you consider the perks of looking as good as you can and want to. I've said it before and I will reiterate: who would want to deliberately look bad when the capability to look good exists? Have a good weekend everyone. I'm going to be busy stapling 300 paper plates together filled with popcorn kernels, for my students to make maracas for Cinco de Mayo.

Oh, I know I won't look 45 for long (and by the way, thanks for reminding me) but if I could get to be 60 and only look 55, I think that would be a plus. Heck, sometimes I think it would be a plus just getting to 60! I just think that God gave us out bodies as they are and we should strive to be truly happy with it the way it has turned out. I had a friend who died of cancer several years ago. She was diagnosed at age 29 and died at age 30. So I can't help but think; I've already got 20 more years given to me than she had given to her. I am blessed. I don't mean to sound like a spiritual person, believe me, I'm not; but truly loving what we have is sometimes solace enough. That's just me. Many who have plastic surgery look and feel great. There are cases that go terribly wrong, though. I just don't think the risks outweigh the benefit. Even cosmetic enhancements are not made to last forever. It's an individual choice and whatever we decide is best for us usually is! Thanks for listening

[quote]Originally posted by CSugarGrove [quote]Originally posted by ginli I am not a vain person and I don't want to look 20 again but I feel self conscious about the bags under my eyes! What's wrong with a little "work" if it makes one feel less tired and alot better about oneself? This is how I feel exactly. I guess that I could have a dreaded disease and then all of this would seem superficial. What I've been thinking about these days is just going for an initial consultatin with a cosmetic surgeon. They put a picture of you in a computer and with a special program, they show you what they could do to help you look better. The only drawback to this is that I'd find out how much better I could look, and then I'd want to have everything done. I don't think any of it is covered by insurance, and I couldn't afford very much out of pocket. Oh well, it would be fun to find out anyhow. [/quote]

Chris--I can see that you replied to my U2U message, but I can't get the message box to open and let me read it. How do I work this thing?

Sugar, I don't find it a strange question. It's very interesting. However, I don't quite agree with your answer. For me, it wouldn't make much difference if everyone else were blind - as long as I could see because I really believe most of the things people do to look younger, they do for themselves - for how they feel about themselves when they look better -- the "how they look to everyone else" is really secondary. It's just my opinion. I don't know how I feel about cosmetic surgery. I'm just beginning to see jowls appear, changes in my neck, under my eyes. I used to have a long, very defined neck. No more. I also was once 35 and 45. No more. Two weeks ago, I went for an eye exam and the optometrist said I could get a free pair of contact lenses. I decided, why not - just to have when I felt like wearing them to something special where I didn't want to wear glasses. Once I had the contacts in, I looked in the mirror and couldn't believe my eyes! I had all these little lines under my eyes. I figured it was because I hadn't slept well the night before. I went back yesterday (a week later), tried a corrected pair of contacts they'd made for me. Same thing. I said to the doctor, "This is ridiculous, I'm getting these things so I don't have to wear glasses, but my glasses cover a multitude of sins I haven't seen in years because I always wear my glasses! Now, am I supposed to have eye surgery?" I've had too much with my health in the last two years to undergo unnecessary surgery. The idea of someone taking a scalpel to my face makes me very nervous. We also rarely hear of the nightmare stories of face lifts and all sorts of plastic/cosmetic surgery procedures. So, right now, I thank the lord for great looking glasses because they're wonderful for camouflaging lines under your eyes and even the eyelids that can no longer defy gravity. There are also many options to surgery - as mentioned in this thread. I seriously doubt I'd ever do Botox - maybe collagen - I'm really not sure. It doesn't bother me enough. There's also a very popular product called Strivectin SD, wrinkle and stretch mark repair cream. It sells on Ebay for around $100 for 6 oz. I don't know anyone who's used it, but I know it sells like crazy. Dearest