What is D-Mannose? I've been away for a few months (need to get used to the format changes here at powersurge) & am interested in learning what others who have this irritation do to get some relief. I've been taking cranberry caplets for a couple of years and they have helped for the most part. But the past 2 weeks I've been enduring irritation, taking Uristet (over the counter and prescription) but it's not helping (had my urine tested & there's no infection). Today the nurse practitioner at my gynecologist's office suggested using the Premarin cream 3 x week to see if that helps plus drinking lots of fluids. TIA for any tips/advice.

Meem, Have you been evaluated for interstitial cystitis? I have this condition, which is chronic bladder irritation with no bacterial infection present. I have to be very careful with acidic foods, caffeine, chocolate, and a few other things. One thing you might consider is stopping the cranberry tablets for awhile - these may actually be irritating your bladder! Cranberry juice itself would bring on a lot of pain for me. When my bladder gets very touchy, as it's been today, I drink volumes of water and eat a few TUMS to alkalinize my urine. If your doc has never mentioned interstitial cystitis, it might be worth broaching the subject. It's a rare condition, but it does exist, as sadly, I know all too well.

joliejacq, Thanks so much for responding to my post. Yes, a urologist I saw last summer mentioned interstitial cystitis but she thought the irritation was caused by the menopausal atrophying of the vagina and urethra. After using the Premarin twice since I posted my original message, the irritation seems to have disappeared (but I'm leery of using a hormonal cream too often so I don't know how long I'll be applying it 3 x a week). The Tums sounds very interesting - never heard it mentioned before in relation to this problem and I think I'll try it. I really appreciate your very helpful information!

I have had this problem on and off for years, and have had no luck with doctor's even being interested in figuring out what it is. I sometimes find that using Nystatin cream on the area will help. Usually though, I start by drinking lots of water and taking 4 to 5 rounds of Vit C, Echinacea, Astragalus and Goldenseal a day. For me that will usually end it in 2 days or so. I have used D-Mannose - that's a substance that makes bacteria adhere to it instead of the walls of the bladder, so it washes the bacteria out. Great if you have an actual infection, but for those of us with irritation and no infection, it's probably useless (as well as expensive). I wonder if the bladder spasms can actually just be caused by anxiety and stress -- I have often noticed that when I am anxious, my muscles are all tensed up down there too.

Hi MsWilly, I think stress can make it worse. Your suggestions are really good - the only thing I would mention is that I must take an "Ester-C" product, as regular vitamin C is much too acidic for my bladder. But the ester-C is VERY helpful. Having bladder discomfort is the pits, isn't it?

Hi Joliejacq, Yup, bladder discomfort is definitely the pits. Fortunately, I only get it maybe every other month....but even that's too much. I'm curious how you hold up emotionally with IC as well as menopause. I don't have IC (at this point anyway) but I don't think I could stand one more thing at this point.........hormone junk is more than enough (and sometimes too much!) By the way, I like your quote about the clouds and storms. I have to keep reminding myself to keep the right perspective on things!!

Hi MsWilly, Well, I got IC first, at about the age of 39. This gave me a good 10 years to adapt, learn how to care for myself during flare-ups, etc., before menopause hit. IC in the early stages was hell - I spent most of one summer crying from the pain in my bladder. But it was NOTHING compared to the depression I experienced this spring, which seemed to come out of the blue. That knocked me off my feet, and I'm still recovering. Living with IC and menopause (and depression!) requires taking things one at a time, also a good support system - thank God I have a loving husband, and my dear sisters at Power-Surge! I'm sorry you, too, have to put up with bladder pain. It's just the most uncomfortable feeling in the world. Day atta time! Oh, and the "gift" of these conditions, is that it has taught me patience, and has made me more loving. Ironic!

Dear JolieJacq - what do you do to get through flare-ups? My usual routine isn't working this time and I'm up for any suggestions. Thanks!

Hi Gals - Just wanted to throw a list of things in the mix. I too have suffered with recurrent and often long lasting bladder infections and or irritation. Used to get at least one a month. I tried a few things that may seem unlikely to help but they really did. Big time. Here is the list - I'm sue there are others I'm not recalling: Underpants - cotton, no tight fitting ones. I like Jockey brand, Comfy, well fitting, ribbed knits lay smooth, Cotton blended with microfibers, some are low rise - lotsa options Seams - I now wear panties inside out. The crotch seams do irritate your urethral opening. Hugely helpful in my case Pantyhose/Nylons - Cut out the panel - it is lined with nylon which traps heat and encourages bacterial growth. Or try thigh highs with longer skirts. Slacks and Skirts - Try to avoid synthetics as they trap heat and sweat. If you can stick with wool, cottons and lightweight washable linings and slips it helps. If you have to wear synthetics, steer clear of polyesters and thicker knits which do not breathe. Silk also traps heat - which is why they make long underwear from it. Avoid in pants and skirts. Lubricants - Studies have shown that the ones with glycerine feed the bacteria that naturally occurs from sweat, sex, etc. Vaginal dryness is a natural part of peri and meno. Dry causes irritation, irritation encourages bacterial infection ( just like irritated skin on hands, or dry sinuses) I use a brand with no glycerine and it really helps. Washes away with water. The confusion here is that you want to keep dry of sweat, But you want to stay lubricated for intimacy. So use lubricants if you need them then wash and dry thoroughly afterwards. U2U me for the brand, I think brand names may not be allowed here... Soap - Same as lubricants - avoid 2 things in soaps. 1) irritants - like scents, perfumes, deodorants and chemicals such as those found in the mass produced variety. Avoid those scented body washes. Odors are often caused by bacteria, and scents don't cover them. 2) Glycerine - ditch those clear glycerine bars that seem gentle but have been known to cause micro-fissures in vaginal and external tissues. Fissures or cracks give bacteria a way to take hold. I use non glycerine soaps. Sometimes I can use baby wash or another liquid with similar ingredients which works ok in a pinch. Rinse well, keep soap from lingering on your skin. U2U me if you want the brand I use. Birth Control - If you use a spermacide - nonoxynol-9 is chemically very much like soap. I am NOT suggesting that you stop using birth control! That said, I had some real problems speramcides - and ended up finding a way to switch to another method. But if you have spermicide or an soap like substance leeching out and bathing your external tissues, it is something to bear in mind. If you are using spermacide in any fashion, It may may just be a good idea to clean throughly and gently afterwards - externally ONLY, no douche until after the recommendations on the product indicate it is safe to do so - so as not to interfere with the birth control. If you must use spermacide, afterwards be sure to use fragrance free soaps, dry thoroughly, wear undies washed without softeners, and avoid tight pants and pantyhose (unless panel removed as pervious post), sitting for prolonged periods etc after sex. If this is not possible due to your job, an airplane trip, classroom, dress codes, etc, then trying the other methods above will still likely help. Towels and shower scrubby things. Change or launder them after every shower, as they are breeding ground for bacteria. Those net scrubby things can be washed in the machine. Don't scrub dry - PAT dry. My urologist reminds me of this. I use a small hand towel just for this area to keep laundry at a manageable level. Laundry - If you can avoid softeners on your towels and underpants, this is very helpful. Softeners make cottons less absorbant. Meaning you can start the day dry. It is the moisture left on your skin that gets the sweat bacteria to start reproducing. Avoid scents in laundry soaps. Look for unscented with no dyes. Diet - avoid refined sugars, sauces with sugar, ketchup, bbq sauce and salad dressings with sugar or corn syrup. Same goes for white flours, pastas and breads. Minimize the impact o these in your diet by adding Natural proboscis ( the live bacterias in yogurt) and they help your body if you have used too much sugar. If you have been on antibiotics, replacing this needed bacteria is a must. Yeast overgrowth is result, and yeast infections make you crave sugars. So that one is a bad cycle. Probiotics come in capsules and are very easy on your system - esp if you can't do yogurt ( which often has added sugar or dead cultures anyway) That one is a book - but I could write more if anyone is interested. Wasn't sure if I should bore everyone with a microbiology speech. Smile Also, acids irritate, irritated tissues encourages bacterial overgrowth. So yes, I avoid cranberry juice, OJ ( which is also very high in fructose, a fruit sugar), and for me, vitamin c can be irritating in doses about 250 mg at a time. Other bladder irritants that are caustic to the bladder lining: Caffeine and nicotine. Smoking is a known cause of increased risk for bladder cancers because it is so irritating to the bladder lining. I quit smoking a few months ago and it helped a LOT. Stress too - and lack of sleep. Water Water Water - just like with sinus infections, bacteria latch on when things are too dry. Dilute them, and they have trouble reproducing. You want your bladder kept hydrated inside so bacteria can't stick. But you want your external tissue clean from sweat, dry, free from lotions, and things that trap heat and sweat. Drink water but pat dry with towels and wear cotton undies is sorta the bottom line. Hope that made sense, I've been up all night! I know the challenges, and wish you all well. -MB

Hi Girls; in a last ditch attempt to understand what is happening to me I have been looking on line for clues and found this chat...It sounds familiar! I have been to the doctors three times; 3 sets of antibiotics and 2 negative results for bacterial infection. Its so confusing and stressful - plus I am right in the middle of my degree exams and am stressed to the max - its been 6 weeks now, this has never happened to me before withoout it having been a short term infection - and yes, i was glugging away on cranberry and water which seems to irritate further...They are referring me to the hospital for further testing; I have always been scared of hospitals so I get more stressed which seems to make it worse! Any ideas or suggestions would be hugely apprieciated! Do you think it could be possible that this is all symptomatic of exam stress? Is it likely to stay for ever? Anyway - I have never posted on one of these before so I am not sure of how people do things - but I felt slightly less alone when I saw that possibly I am not going mad!

My coworker had this happen to her - nothing was found to be wrong. Her PCP did tell her that at times urine retention unaware to her could be the reason. Especially as we get older, we need to "take our time" on the toilet. When one thinks they are done, than a kegal or two will bring on more urine. Also leaning forward when urinating will "finish the job." Retained urine can be a breeding ground for all kinds of cooties.

Bladder pain certainly can be related to stress. Despite having IC, I am actually doing very well after a lot of hard work (and many years ) determining what the triggers are for me.

Here, however, are some general hints offered from the ICA (Interstitial Cystitis Association) for ANYONE experiencing bladder pain, whether it's related to infection or not:

1. Begin drinking clear water to "flush" irritants from your bladder.

2. Take 2 or 3 TUMS (according to the manufacturer, you can safely take up to 12 a day), or alternately drink 1 tsp. of baking soda stirred into a cup of water (note - do not do try this 2nd option if you have heart trouble, as it's a big hit of salt). This will quickly alkalinize your urine.

3. Take an OTC pain reliever such as aspirin, acetaminophen, or ibuprofen, or you can buy pain relievers specifically made to relieve bladder pain (Urocit-K, I think it's called? Your pharmacist will know).

4. Warm the perineal (groin) area with a hot-water bottle.

I try to stay away from acidic foods most of the time, and there is an IC diet that can help people not only with chronic bladder pain, but also with IBS and/or migraines. It has to do with pain-receptive nerves in the body, and how they interact chemically with the foods we eat. You can find the diet on the ICA website - simply google for it.

Good luck - bladder issues are the pit (so to speak)!

JJ

Well, it's been a few years but I'm back and have learned a bit about urethral irritation when it's not a UTI. My gynecologists recommended I see a female urologist who has really helped lots of their patients with a similar problem. she did a number of tests on me and the only thing that stood out to her was this irritated feeling I had in my urethra that made me think I was getting a UTI when I wasn't. She said it's my Pelvic Floor Muscle! and she sent me to a physical therapist whom I saw for about 10 visits and who got rid of that feeling. It came back last fall, I returned to the PT and she helped me again. The PT puts her hand inside the vagina and bears down on the pelvic floor muscle (the muscle that runs like a sling from your lower back to your pelvic area)...and that ached the first 2 times I went. she gave me kegle like exercises to do and toldme to drink 64 oz of water every day. I thought this was another menopause challenge but she said she has patients as young as 19 with pelvic floor muscle problems. So if you're always feeling like you're coming down with UTI but your urine tests ok, get to a urologist (in my opinion, a young female urologist, one who keeps up on the latest discoveries) and ask if this could be a pelvic floor muscle problem and get yourself to a therapist (female:) and see if that helps.

I have been having the same thing on and off for a few weeks now. Mine seems to be a pelvic floor muscle problem also, rather than a UTI, as there is no burning. It is more of an itchy irritated feeling.

Back in Dec. I developed all kinds of awful symptoms in the genital/rectal area: sharp or cutting sensations around the vagina, feeling of object in both vagina and rectum, pinching sensations, irritated feelings in the crothc like what you might get if you sat on a hard bicycle seat for hours, pedaling. Although there are a few really scary hypotheses out there about causes of pelvic pain and I was totally freaked out at first, my searching lead me to conclude the most likely explanation was excess tension in the pelvic floor muscles.

I went to a Physical Therapist also. She did some internal work and also gave me a couple exercises to do. Plus I began doing a set of stretches listed in the book "A Headache in the Pelvis" which deals with the whole pelvic floor dysfunction problem. Finally, I made conscious effort to keep the muscles down there as relaxed a s possible, as close to the state when you urinate as possible without actually doing so. Gradually, the problem got better and was completely gone for a few weeks in late May/ early June. Then it came back about 3 weeks ago, due to stress I think. I have been having terrible muscle tension throughout my body since last August.

Anyway, when it came back, it was mostly as sensations of bladder pressure and urethral irritation this time, not as vaginal or rectal discomfort. I am 98% sure it is just muscular because walking can often make it subside, as can lying on my back. often I can sit confortably, other times it brings on spasmy sensations in the area above the pubic bone.

Very tight low abdominal muscles, especially if they develop trigger points, can also be responsible for wierd sensations in the bladder and genital area. Whenever I am sitting and do feel the bladder stuff, I notice my abdominal muscles are very tight.

I am not entirely satisfied with the PT I have been going to. If my current problem persists, I may try another one I learned of, further away but perhaps with more experience.

Hey Everybody:
Just want to say I've been experiencing something similar since April..Dr. Vliet put me on the Vagifem 17-B 25 mcg Estradiol tablets; 1/nightly for 2-4 weeks or until symptoms resolve. Her books go into I.C./vulvodynia and estrogen loss at great length. I've only been on the Vagifem for 6 days and I am already getting some relief.
Avi.

I definitely relate to your description of bladder pressure and urethral irritation. I have found using estrace cream to be helpful. I use 1/2 gram with applicator and insert deep into vagina. Then, I use 1/2 gram with finger and apply to urethral area. I've been doing this 3x week for a month. Things have defintely improved.

Colleen

Terribletoodle, this sounds exactly like the symptoms I'm having. Have you found anything to help? Has it gone away? I had a bad bout of anxiety accompanied by IBS symptoms for a month or so, then I had to go for a PAP test. Had a new, VERY young, girl doctor who pinched like crazy and I spotted afterwards for a good day and a half. Anyway, since then I have what feels like my bladder is 'achey' and my cervix - or far up in my vagina - is sore. I've noticed I have a backache and have been thinking this might be affecting all this. It just feels like everything has pressure. It's so hard to describe, I don't even know if I can go see a doctor to explain any of it. I just know it all feels 'uncomfortable' and, of course, it scares me to death. I can't get into see the GYN until August 27th - the PAP showed I have a cervical polyp the doctor wants checked. I've tried 'relaxing' the pelvis like you mention, but it doesn't help. I'm wondering if constipation or IBS symptoms can cause this feeling of pressure? Thanks for any feedback. It seems I just get past one thing and something else crops up. Oh, I'm 55 and will be 2 years w/o period this October.

I'm wondering if anyone has had backache with their bladder irritation? My bladder is definitely involved in all this, even tho a year ago I had the whole works - urine tests ritght through to the cystoscopy. Nothing was found. A week later, everything went away.

This time it's back - and worse. And I can't get into see a gyno for over a month. This time, too, when I sit, it hurts more - and my back aches. The 'burning' sensation in my urethra and vagina seem to ease later at night, to be replaced by low backache. :-( I've been to three doctors, just had another urine test done...I've been put on vaginal estrogen cream, but it doesn't seem to do much of anything. The doctor said to 'give it time'. How long? And how is that going to help my bladder? I'm at my wits end. Any help you can give me would be greately appreciated.

Hi!
I'm so sorry for your discomfort. I've been going through something similar for the past several months but no back pain. As far as the vaginal estrogen cream...I was using that too for a while...the doctor said it takes at least six weeks for a noticeable improvement and three to six months for things to be back to normal. He also told me that symptoms would all come back if I stopped using the estrogen when I felt better. It is supposed to help the bladder and urethra because when we lack estrogen, the tissues in the vagina become thin and dry. The bladder and urethra are made up of the same tissues and are estrogen dependent too. You didn't state how long or how much of the cream you use. I was using it every night for nine nights, and because it seemed to make me worse, I had to go to twice a week. After two weeks of that, I started spotting so I'm off of it for now. Long story at another thread. lol I hope you have better luck with it. If you're not having any problems with it, try to give it time like the doctor says. You really should see some improvement in five to six weeks. I had to use a "dab" around the urethra. I didn't have to use an applicator. Don't use more than you're supposed to.
I hope you feel better soon!
Steviechaser

Oh, there is nothing like bladder and urethra discomfort. I have had trouble the past couple of months and today had a cystoscopy. The doctor told me that my urethra is very narrow and rigid and he stretched it. I really think I should have been under to have this done. I am in a lot of pain right now. I asked if this has anything to do with estrogen and he said no. I am inclined to not believe this, as the bladder and urethra if they are estrogen dependent, could become rigid and unyielding, right? Now I know why I retain so much water. He said my healthy bladder is trying to push the water through a urethra that is too narrow. Has anyone else had this problem? Love, Lilyfields

If you read all the information out there regarding Perimenopause/menopause symptoms....bladder is high on the list. Thats why I don't have very much faith in a OBGYN thats male. Until you have had A VAGINA you just do not know our pain. I get this bladder pain right before my periods...sometimes it feels like I have to go all the time, and sometimes I can't hold it. It never hurts when I urinate..its just pain up there. I have had everything checked and MY obgyn(who does have a vagina)LOL!!!!!told me its just another wonderful blessing of hormonal changes. And I drink 16 glasses of water everyday. Nothing else NO booze, no carboination, no caffiene....its just another symptom of all the others I have...........I would love it if my only complaint was hot flashes

Thanks so much for your reply, Steviechaser. I've used the cream for 2 weeks as per the instructions, and am this week on the twice per week. The Gynocologist gave me little tablets that you shoot up there - he said they're much less 'messy' than the cream, so I've started that. No bleeding yet, but am so freaked by all this I get the shakes and anxiety - which, I'm sure, doesn't help the condition at all. I'm glad to hear it might take some time to work. I have horrible dreams at night thinking I'm going to have this problem forever. :-(

Hi Ladies,

I had all these symptoms and went on Vagifem tablets and I had a bout with way to much estrogen. My problem turned out to be a very bad sensitivity to toilet paper I had to go to the health food store and buy "clean" paper and I even found some made with cotton. I also dab carefully especially if I need to go in public or at work. No more wiping without thought. I still get spells where I'm dry and a bit tender but I just make sure to drink enough water and keep myself lubricated "down there".

I've been off all medication for quite a while now and feel pretty good at least for being peri and all. I do have a good diet, get as much sleep as I can, do lots of yoga and try to keep my stress level down. The dryness and related symptoms seem to come and go for me and I'm sure they are closely linked to raging hormone changes so I hang on and go for a ride. The toilet paper was the worst offender though.

Another good thing about using tablets instead of "messy" cream....there's no alcohol in it! The vaginal estrogen creams contain alcohol...Premarin has two kinds of alcohol in it! Right now I'm on no treatment and in constant pain and burning. I had a hysteroscopy and a D+C on august 15th...today I got my pathology report and there was no cancer but I have no idea what the doctor plans to do next. He did mention going to the tablet form of estrogen. 8 months and counting since I started with this horrible atrophy. I don't see the doctor for 6 more weeks.
I hope the estrogen is helping you somewhat by now.
Steviechaser (I'm missing a Stevie Nicks concert today because of this burning pain!! Very sad about that!)

i heard that if you drink cranberry juice for like a month you will feel less irritation...

ic is terrible, is there anything you can take or use that is natural or safe, that estrogen stuff scares me.
LET ME KNOW WHAT HAS helped others, and give me faith, I am so losing it, i have never had problems till this year at age 46. ITS HORRIBLE, I get so depressed, and doctors arent much help. Tell me there is some light at the end of tyhs dark tunnel.

lesli

[quote name='Lesli2' date='Oct 28 2007, 06:21 PM' post='193359']
Just to say to you Lesli2 that there are many posts on here about ic, and although it is horrible it can be relieved. I had similar (not ic I think) symptoms, and they have gone away - I think it is hormonal. When going through a few months of it, I thought it would never end too, but it just went away Thank God. I am 52 and skipping periods now, but this all happened 18mnts or so ago.

[quote name='Alfreda' post='193479' date='Oct 29 2007, 01:27 PM'][quote name='Lesli2' post='193359' date='Oct 28 2007, 06:21 PM']
Just to say to you Lesli2 that there are many posts on here about ic, and although it is horrible it can be relieved. I had similar (not ic I think) symptoms, and they have gone away - I think it is hormonal. When going through a few months of it, I thought it would never end too, but it just went away Thank God. I am 52 and skipping periods now, but this all happened 18mnts or so ago. [/quote]


HERE IS MY EMAIL IF YOU CAN WRITE ME BACK ON THIS:

LESLI_EMAIL@YAHOO.COM

OH thank you so much for posting back, it eases my mind so much. The Doctor did not say for sure I had IC, infact he suggested some other things like stress, overactive bladder.
He said the back ache was prob stress, thou I think it prob has to do with this.
he said only way can tell for sure is the test, but i cannot have it done now it cost nearly 1000.00 and I have no insurance.
Anyways please tell me more, what were your symptoms, as many as you remember, and how did you get thru it???? My poor hubby bless his heart hears about my condtion everyday. At first I was so stressed I thought oh im dying, and I was to stressed to go to the doctors (since too I sorry from panic attacks, my luck) so I made myself go and have been there a few times now, cause I kept saying I know this is a bladder infection, but it wasnt I was so frustrated one time I came home from doctor and just cryed!! I always was healthy, and never had much troublem, then this dam premenapausal, MEN dont know how lucky they are, this power surge is a godsend!!! love you all here, your so supportive,

P.S., Is there any natural herb I can take to ease all this pressure and such?

Hi Lesli2,
If you click on my name you can read all my posts, the story about the awful 'bladder' stuff is all there. And a lot of other women have posted stories similar to mine too, so keep reading!
I was like you convinced there was a bladder infection, and indeed some of the urine tests did show infection with various organisms, and I was treated on long term antibiotics, which only helped a bit. And some tests were negative, even though I was in extreme discomfort.
In the end it just faded away, and has remained gone now since about February I think, so Thank God.
I have this theory that the urine contains increased FSH, and LH, and God knows what other hormones at this time of our lives, so as well as looking for bacteria, they should check the biochemisty too. It is just a thought.
This was all just before a break of several months in my periods, although the period returned in Oct, much to my dismay.
I am convinced the hormones at this time affect the bladder, but that they eventually settle down again. I did not want a cystoscopy, but many people feel better to have the check done. And doctors are so keen these days to do tests, so it is difficult to decide.
I found that to drink plenty of water, take 2 panadol (I think they call them tylenol in USA), and an anti acid medicine, like 'gaviscon' or 'rennies', relieved the acute distressing feeling when it was at its worst. I was in tears with it at times!
Hoping you get some relief from this soon,
Alfreda

I thought I was losing my mind till I found this forum today. I went to the gyn last tuesday. I had thought I had a bladder infection somy main doc gave me Cirpo. She was going to be out for back surgery so just gave it to me over the phone. Then gyn said I don't think so, sent me for urine test last Wednesday haven't heard anything so I guess that came back ok. He told me off the caffiene. Which I did for the most part. But today had 3 little candy bars (Halloween size) and a cup of tea. Bad idea. I've been so worried about this. I thought I might be pregnant although logically there is no way. But when I was I had the freguency problem. I'm 48 so that would have been a situation. My daughter is 20. I've been terrified. And then I found this forum and it is describing my problem to a tee. I feel a little better and when I talk to my doc today have some info. Thanks for being here.