I cannot belive this!i have been hypo thyroid for well over ayear now..and perimeno for about four years now or so i thought!

well my dr. added a new med for my thyroid and within two days my hot flashes have all but left me!i can't believe this..this is tooo gooood toooo beeee truuuue!!!!

also i'm confused about something else tho....i had an fsh test in oct that was 32.8 then another one in dec. that was 6.3..

the dr. who did it in dec said that test is accurate cause the other one was not done at the right time..so now according to him, i am NOT even in perimeno!

these hot flashes i've had off and on and irregular periods off and on for four years he says is from my thyroid????

what do you all think???/i would love some feed back here PLEEEEESE!AND THAT YOU ALSO!!!!

i disagree that 25 mcg of thyroid meds is too low...that is what i started on and am still on and it has worked wonders for me, so i don't believe that one at all!'it is the lowest dose tho and probably don't help many people..i think more sensitive people can get away with that low of a dose...i suppose some day i will have to increase but for now, i'm really happy that is all i have to take!

kalanie,,,i don't see how i can reply to each seperate post unless i'm missing something but that is okay i guess...

in response to your post about the "other" thyroid med my dr. put me  on, is another t4 med, levoxyl..

right now i'm on cytomel (t3) only and no t4 med.  not many dr.s believe in checking the t3 level and most have low t3's and need to add cytomel or go on a combo like armour or thyrolar but most dr.s don't believe in any of it they only go by tsh and that is wrong!!!

i was having sooo many problems still after starting levoxyl, i was still tried all the time, cold all the time, gaining weight, nooooo energy, just a real general blah feeling dispite my tsh being in the "normal" range again.

the other thing is that most people feel better with a tsh between 1-2 not within "normal"....so i went to an endocrinologist who took me off levoxyl and put me on cytome and i started feeling soooo great!

i started working out six days a week again which helped me lose some weight, and my hypoglycemia symptoms went away quite a bit but some days i still would have it...

then i started getting the hot flashes and was freezing cold all the time...some times i was sooo cold i would literally welcome the flash then i'd get so hot that i could't wait to get cold again!!!

what a mess and what a joke!  i finally had my blood work done again only to find out that my t4 had dropped quite a bit and my body desperately needed it, and because my t4 had dropped it  had made my tsh go back up to 4.45

so my dr. added the t4 levoxyl back  in and within a couple days the flashes had subsided greatly and i was not as cold..

i am still cold but i can wear a sweat shirt all evening and don't have to strip down now from flashes...whew!  that was a lot to say!

anyway...that is the scoop...if your dr. will have him test your free t3, it should be above midrange, tsh between 1-2 and free t4 should also be above mid range....

hope all is well with you...jen

Hi Jen...

Thanks so much for the information, especially about the meds.  I have known about the low t3 for quite some time, and that docs aren't all that interested in it, though they should be.  I always have to force a new doc to check t3, because that's what I am low in, as are many people.  I also just found out that the free t3 and t4 is a better indicator than tsh levels!  I should have known that, too, because of the inaccuracy of fsh.  :(

Thanks again for the information, and I am glad that you are doing so much better!  :)

if you are low in t3 you can try 200 mcgs of selenium, it is suppose to help with the conversion of t3.have you been to * for thyroid?

they have a message board there and a wealth of info on the subject!  just go to   *  then when you get there put thyroid in the little search box on the site or look for mary shoman (sp) and you have to regiser of course but once you find it it is well worth it!

good luck and warm wishes....jenni

* Board Administrator Note: URL to another message board has been removed -- if you wish more information please email the poster

Hi Jenni... thanks again for the info.  I forgot to mention something in my last post that I meant to.  I also have hypoglycemia, which I have had since the hypothyroid condition was discovered years ago.  Of course, I am always trying to relate everything to each other, and I find it interesting that you also have both conditions!  Hmmmmmm...wonder if anyone else has both?

hi again!on the thyroid message board there are alot of people who do have both!!!

one thing that i've read repeatedly tho that helps is something called maca/macca...

i've also learned that low adrenals can make you hypoglycemic!

have you had all the fun glucose tests to show that you are?

mine were within normal but still i had/have symptoms of it.  it's strange cause some days i don't have any symptoms then other days i have got to eat every 2-3 hours, s*cks too!  lol!

anyway, have you ever had your adrenals checked or cortisol levels checked?

alot of times those with thyroid disorders have low adrenals as well...

this girl on the thyroid board had hypoglycemia pretty bad and seen a naturopath i believe and he put her on the maca and she don't have it anymore!!!

the best maca is to buy one called whole world botanicals....i've tried the gnc brand and it helped some but not as much...

i'm still considering giving it a try.  also selenium and chromium is suppose to help as well.  there are other products that help with adrenal support, like panthothenic acid (sp?)  500 mgs twice a day and then there is siberian ginseng that is also suppose to help.

anyway, i'm starting to sound like an advertisement or an endorsement for these products, but really i'm not!!!

the other thing is and alot of people don't believe this is that soy can aggravate the thyroid condition, so i completely avoid it!

also twin labs makes a one a day w/out iron called daily one, it has the selenium and chromium and alot of good b's.

i was taking them until they ran and and it took forever for them to come in again....

anyway....today i started some ginko 240 mgs to see if it will help with the tinnitus i've had for about 4 months now...

it is suppose to help with circulation so if my ringing is from poor circulation then hopefully it will help, if not, i will just continue to go crazier from it yet!!!

take care......jen

Hahaha, Jen, you sure are full of information today!  :)Thanks very much.. I always like to hear new things and check on them.  

I have been through so many fun glucose tolerance tests in my life it is ridiculous, lol.  It is interesting that so many with low thyroid have it, too.  My hypoglycemia has been controlled with diet for many years, but, when I was first diagnosed with it, it was a wild ride for me alot of the time, and not real fun.  I have learned, over the years, to eat much healthier, and to eat small meals every couple of hours, instead of gorging at those set eating times.  I rarely have a problem with it anymore, except if I go without eating for long periods of time.  And, of course, I always have to eat breakfast now, one thing I never used to do when I was younger.  

Actually, I have just had my cortisol levels checked and it is too high, although not extremely high.  Pete (College Pharmacy) increased my Biest a tad, telling me that the increase in estrogen may slow down my adrenal glands.  He says that low estrogen can raise cortisol levels, which I found interesting.

Well, good luck to all of us with these little annoying things that appear...at least we aren't all taking it sitting down!   :biggrin:

Hi,

Has anyone gone from being hypo to hyper on their blood tests?   Mine was high last time and has never been before.   It is usually normal with the Armour thyroid.   This time my doctor changed me to Levoxyl at a higher dose (which is still only 50 mcg)  thinking it is more consistent than the Armour without peaks and valleys.   At the same time a higher dose when it is already high did not make sense.

I have had more hot flashes since I found out it is higher but not severe.   Actually it improved on the new Levoxyl but not entirely gone away.    I wasn't aware that thyroid could cause hot flashes but I would think it would make sense if you are overstimulated.  

Also has anyone had their blood pressure go up when the thyroid goes higher than normal range?  In other words, is this more stimulating to the body and causes a bp rise?

This is strange but the water I drink (clustered) might have made the medicine more potent but I don't think a traditional doctor would believe it.

What have been your symptoms when you thyroid medicine dose was too much for you?   I have never had thyroid show up out of range especially to too high.

I don't want to attibute the warm flushes or flashes to hormones when it may be the thyroid.

The flashes are not severe like they were with the estrogen and progesterone out of whack but still I don't  "like them.."    

Hi,

This is a correction from the last post.   I found out that high TSH means you are hypo not hyper.

My question has anyone found that when TSH is high that it brought on hot flashes?

Otherwise, I will increase my estrogen again.

yes nancy when tsh is high so are hot flashes..i didnt really believe this cause i cannot find much on this subject but i lived it, so i am living proof!i started out on the vivelle dot at 0.05 twice a week..then i ended up going HYPER from too much thyroid meds, and so i stopped taking it for a week..

after a week i re-started it at 50 mcgs, (i was doing a 50/75) split....i became hyper again after two days so i just stopped it altogether for a couple weeks..

or so i thougth!  it turned in to almost a month that i was off the meds all together and it didnt even seem like more then a couple weeks..

during that time tho, i started having more hot flashes..i didnt know why tho...

so i increased to a 0.1 patch, and that helped but still some lingered..

when i finally went back to the dr. for a tsh, my tsh came back at 57!!!

geeesh, no wonder!  i was also having high blood pressure, horrible hypoglycemia, horrible weight gain from the hypoglycemia....

so yes it does matter, it does make a difference!i am now back on 50 mcgs of levoxyl and back down to the 0.05 vivelle and feeling soooooo much better!

i hope this helps..i would wait to get your tsh back down below 2 preferrably...

then decide if you need more estrogen, or if you can get an estradiol test, the estrodiol level should be between 70-114, if you are between there then definitely wait...

good luck...jenni

Jenni,

I just read an article where in menopause women have thyroid problems for the first time.   It says because estrogen (estrogen dominance?) causes the thyroid to go down.    I would think taking supplemental estrogen could affect the thyroid.   I have never had a high TSH before and it did happen when I started estrogen....

I still wonder if these flashes are from the high TSH....(6.85) not extremely high but out of range...or the estrogen.   I guess it could be either if the body in in stress because of an imbalance.

I never took the amount of estrogen my doctor recommended but I may increase it to see as it will be two months before we increase the dose on thyroid med.    I don't know about enduring sleepless nights that long if I had to wait about the thyroid.

I am back on the same dose thyroid med as I had a reaction to the Levoxyl last week where my blood pressure and pulse went extremely high.    He tests a full panel in two months for the thyroid.....I have never had that done (just the TSH).

I also wonder about the free T-3 and T-4 tests as I read where that is best for knowing which hormones are actually affecting the target tissues.   One of the tests I am getting is the free T-4 but there is no free T-3 on the form.  He uses some T-3 uptake thing but I read where that is not reliable.  

Have you done the free T-3 and T-4 tests and some antibody one?

I am new to the "thyroid game."   So I have been reading a lot...

(Oh in the past I took my thyroid at night with food and now I am trying in the morning on an empty stomach.  I am hoping that will make it more effective for me.)

What is interesting is that the estrogen does affect the  thyroid hormones..also foods and many things like cortisol and stress.....

Geesh we women really have to work at feeling good this time of life don't we?  :)   I tell people I have spent my life trying to feel good legally....

Georgia Dove~~

nancy, have you been to the about.com thyroid message board?

you have got to go there to find out what is going on..if you think a tsh of 6.85 is not that high, i have news for you..

dont believe your dr. and dont believe him either about t3 testing, it is very reliable and can cause alot of problems if it is low..it should be above midrange as should t4..

another thing is to have your adrenals tested if your dr. will do it...alot of people with thyroid problems have adrenal problems as well...like adrenal fatigue not cushings or addisons but fatigue..

.ideally your tsh should be between .8-1.4 you will find this all over the thyroid message board..

go to ** and put in thyroid in the search thingy on their site...you will probably have to register if you want to post a message there..

i dont know if i can give that website address or not, but if not, just look it up at about.com..sorry if i offended anyone by posting the site url if it is not allowed..

dont buy into that estrogen dominance thing either...when starting estrogen it can make your tsh go higher then needing more thyroid meds but that is not all bad, cause you just have to balance it out..

if you come off the estrogen at any time tho you have to be careful that you dont overmedicate and go hyper instead...

if you can get your dr. to do an estrodiol test that is the best way to tell if you need mroe estrogen or not..

it should be in the range of 70-114..it is soooooo hard  to get dr.s to do tests and alot of them just go by symptoms without doing any tests..

it does not take much estrogen to make flashes go away so they think if they go away it is okay...

that is not true tho...you need a certain level of estrogen to be protected against endometrial buildup, unless you are still ovulating (periods).

if you keep your levels of estradiol between the 70-114 you wont need progesterone either maybe once every 3-6 months to make sure..

read dr. larrian gillespie books, menopause diet..it is packed with this information..

she is a retired uro-gynocologist and has written several books on womens problems, and has done testing on many of these things and have much evidence to back it all up..

definitely worth a try....if you can see your dr. before two months i would definitely do it instead of waiting..

why is he waiting to increase your thyroid meds now when your tsh is up to 6.85 or did he just increase recently?

it only takes like six weeks to re-test..tell him you want your tsh in the bottom range between 1-2 and your t4 and t3 in the upper midrange..it can make a world of difference..

i was soooo tired during the whole day until early evening then i started coming to life...i told the endocrinologist this and he put me on cytomel which is a t3 med..and took me completey off levoxyl!

that was a baaaaaad move, my t4 sank to almost off the chart and i was constantly freezing and flashing, oh maaan what a wreck i was, it was just awful..

when he started me back on t4 levoxyl, then things finally balanced out for me..whew that was an awful two months!

so i would call now and demand testing now instead of waiting..

also if you cant handle levoxyl, you could try a more natural like thyrolar or armour or naturthroid...

synthroid has just been FDA approved but i wouldnt trust it anymore my self..

try taking the levoxyl in the a.m. on empty tummy and see if that helps with absorbtion as that is how it is meant to be taken..

the pharmacy sas to wait  one hour, but the king pharmeseuticals who makes levoxyl says 30 mns so that is what i wait...

keep in touch..i'm curious how this turns out..but check out the about.com site, the people on there are soooo knowledgeable about all this stuff having been through it all before like you and me are going through it now..

take care....jenni

Jenni,

Thanks for all the valuable info!

I will check out the website.

I think my doctor said the insurance companies won't pay for free T-3 unless you are hyperthyroid.    I really will push for that test either with him or another doctor.  How can you know anything unless you have T-3 because it is the one that makes such a difference from what I read.   But you did seem to get in trouble with the T-4 going low.   Guess you need both in balance...

Blood tests have never been that accurate for me for estrogen and progesterone.   I have done saliva testing and when I felt good, I noted the numbers.   That has been pretty accurate.   I upped the estrogen today a little....hate the nighttime flashes.

He does think you should be at a l or 2 TSH...but I guess he doesn't get serious until it gets out or range.   He is more concerned with helping me avoid diabetes as I have the risk factors.   I guess thyroid affects everything though from what I read.   He says it requires tests every so often and finetuning but I think you need the "right" tests or it would take too long.

I think he was waiting to get the Levoxyl out of my system as that was a hyper reaction.    I wouldn't think two months would be necessary though....might speed up the process and ask for free T-3.

These are the tests he ordered to be done in two months as he gave me the slip.   What do you think and would they tell enough without the free T-3?:

TSHT-3 TotalT-3 UptakeT-4 ThroxineT-4 Free

Glad you are doing better.   It did require a lot of perserverance on your part...

Thank you again!!  Your posts have been so helpful.

   

 

well he did order the t3's so that is good..not sure if one is free t3 over the other tho, sorry..

how much levoxyl were you on when you went hyper/i was doing a 50/75 split up from just 50 and it pushed me over the edge to hyper..

had a ton of anxiety and depression, insomnia, palps, oh maaan the crying spells...yuck!

also i just recently started taking celexa...seems i have become slightly obsessive, something else that comes with hypothyroidism...sigh..

i think the tests that he ordered are all the right one's..you may want to ask him tho about doing an adrenal test..

i think most get a 24 cortisol test through urine...it has to be in seperate containers for each sample tho  or you wont know where you are low or high if you are..

do you have diabetes risk factors?  that would s*ck..sorrie...

i have just had some scares myself with such low blood sugar levels..

i was always so symptomatic with hypoglycemia but could never get a low reading to prove it..

so i bought an at home meter and tested myself and had some really low readings of 53 and 54...proving the hypoglycemia...

then i started taking chromium GTF and that brought up my blood levels fasting in the 90"s so i started worrying that it was too high and thought maybe i was going the opposite way to diabetes...

what a mess huh?  the last couple days now it has leveled out in the mid 80's which i guess is pretty good...

i think it is best to treat hypoT when your tsh is already up there like your's..

alot of dr.s believe in sub-clinical being under 10, but most would treat even above a 2 or a 3.

i'm surprised your dr. let it get that high even after being hypol..

as far as i know it does not take two months to get it out of your system..

look what happened to me in just one month...i had a hyper tsh of 0.014 and within one month went waaaaaaay hypo to a tsh of 57..

dont wait to get symptomatic when you see it going up then you have a host of new problems to deal with..

dealing with hypo is no fun...avoid soy..soy is a hormone and can really mess up your system..

hypo people should not take soy....i'm sure you know about the calcium and not taking it within four hours of any calcium..

i honestly dont know what my dr. was thinking when he took me off the t4, i didnt even want to get off it..

so my t4 went waaaay down and my tsh went waaaay up then to, to 7.49 i think and he said that was waaaay to high too..

what kind of estrogen do you take?

Jen,

I have been on 30 mg Armour for about ten years for chronic fatigue.    He said it would help the energy and cold and hot sensitivity.   I am not sure if I should have been on it.   I had low body temps and was cold so I think maybe so.   I hope I did not screw up my thyroid being on it if not needed.

It was 50 mcg of Levoxyl that made my blood pressure and pulse go up.   All I can figure is that it has double the T4 of Armour which has 19 in it and some T3 as well.   They should have been sort of equivalent in strength as T3 is stronger by 3 or 4 times....I am thinking I don't respond well to synthetic anything.

I asked my doctor and he said the last TSH was 2.2 or so so I think he thought it was "okay."    This is the first high out of range (over 5.5) I have had.   He does think l or 2 but some people get it to there and have heart palps etc. so there has to be some balance in what you can tolerate.

I don't know about calcium.   I take it with breakfast.   I have the thyroid 2 hours after breakfast....is this a no-no?

I take the compounded natural estrogen that my gyn prescribes.   It is mostly estriol the less harmful kind.   Supposedly my compounding pharmacy said the full dose of estrogen I have prescribed is a normal dose given.    I have used only half that until now.   Maybe I should test for estrogen before I go up on the thyroid med.  

You have done a lot of work on hypoglycemia too.   I have always had it some but it did not show up on the test...the numbers were okay.   I could not think after all that sugar so I thought the test is screwy.   My blood sugar is 97 I think.    

To have hypoglycemia and hypothyroid makes for lousy energy levels.....add to that menopause and it is something to deal with with all that going on as well.

Do doctors routinely test for adrenals with thyroid problems?

This is late....stay well..

Hi Nancy...  You shouldn't  take any calcium within 4 hours of taking thyroid medication.  I always take my thyroid med early in the am, right after I get up, and the calcium 4 hours after that.  

I also have hypoglycemia... have for yrs, same as hypothyroid, and I usually test at about 28 or so on a glucose tolerance test... that's within shakes and incoherent range... awful.  :(

Kalanie,

Sorry about your hypoglycemia....it is difficult to deal with.    I can't go longer than four hours or get weak and shaky.    I envy people who can skip meals and keep going.

If you take your thyroid med when you get up, can you have a cup of decaf with it? and then wait for breakfast?  

What does calcium do to interfere with thryoid?   I have been spacing it out for years in three doses with mealtimes during the day for better absorption.

I think some of us need a computer to keep up with the complexity of our chemistries....  :o

Jen,

I had a sleepless flashy night.   I think I will get a saliva test kit and test for hormones; then find out if my insurance company pays for T-3 testing.  I think I need to light a fire under my doctor because I feel bad when I don't sleep the normal hours.

My son is coming in next week to visit and I want to feel good.. how about some magic sprinkly hormone dust to wave over me and make this go away?  

I just bought three cute cotton dresses from Nordstrum's called "fresh produce" to brighten up how I look anyway....even my husband appreciates seeing me in a dress.   If I can't feel good, I am going to try to look good....never giving up!!  :)  

Nancy, you'll be happy for me that we finally got a Nordstrom here in the Raleigh/Durham area, ha ha (I mentioned I used to drive to Atlanta to shop). Those dresses sound so cute (and cool for our hot, southern weather).

The exceedingly unfortunate problem is that I am not allowed to spend a penny, especially on clothes, because my husband (a.k.a. Mr. Skinflint) works for Worldcom. I keep telling him they have to keep *somebody* (and I know it will be him, of course) because Worldcom carries like 90% of the internet traffic. This perfect logic sways him not in the least. Thank God I got the Corian and my beloved Baker dining room before he lost his senses.

Sorry to go so off topic, but your new dresses set me off!

Hi Nancy...I really don't think it matters too much how soon you eat or drink anything after taking the thyroid med.  I have read in many places that the important thing is to find the time of day that works best for you and whether or not taking it with or without food works best for you.  I have been taking mine before breakfast every day for the past 30 yrs, and it seems to agree well with me.  I usually eat within an hour or so of taking it, but I really don't time it.  I have never paid attention to coffee intake with it, as I don't drink coffee but once in a blue moon.

As for the calcium, I only know that it is recommended by the manufacturer of levothyroxine thyroid medications (ie. Synthroid and others... I take Levothroid) that you do so in order that the calcium doesn't interfere with the hormone replacement and render it less effective.  Another thing about calcium is that your body can only absorb so much at a time (like about 600 units, I think), and there should be about a 6 hour interval between doses.  

(Edited by Kalanie at 3:48 pm on Aug. 1, 2002)

Kalanie,

Thanks for the info.    All this gets complicated.   I always heard you can only absorb about 250 of calcium at a time and that is why I took it 3 times a day.     If it is 600, twice a day would be okay.

Feeling good is hard work in meno isn't it?

Jen,

I got the T-3 test added by my doctor.   I pushed to get it and did the thyroid tests today.   At least I can rest assured I want have wait to long too increase my dose of thyroid and will know what is going on.   I am so grateful for all your information.  

Wordgirl,

You are too funny....hope you are not going naked because of your skinflint hubby....or maybe he would like that?  :)  

Georgia Dove~~

Hi Nancy...It's damn tough to feel good in meno, I think!  :biggrin:

Kalanie and Jen,

My hot flashes have eased up.   When I had the reaction to Levoxyl I went back to the original dose of Armour but take it on an empty stomach in the morning.    Before I did know not know if mattered and took it with my evening meal.

I got my thyroid panel blood work from last week  back....before the TSH was 6.85; now it is 3.3 would you believe.   Also the other numbers are in the normal range supposedly.    I know l or 2 is best but this is an improvement that is surprising.

The free T-4 was 1.0 with .7 to 2.0 as normal range.  The free T-3 was2.9 with 2.3 to 4.2 as normal.   Are these numbers supposed to be higher?   Jen said high normal was best...

I don't understand why the flashes went away or my numbers improved unless how I take my medicine made this difference.   What do you think? ( Also I am still waiting to get my hormone saliva test back to see if that was ever the problem.   It takes a couple of weeks).

Anyway I am happy to sleep better for now....losing sleep made me feel really awful.

Hi ladies,

I started taking Synthroid about 6 years ago for hypo thyroidism. The funny thing was that I was not losing a pound, my doc was puzzled he just was frazzeled.  Well on my appointment with GYN I asked what the heck was going on, I was I HRT at the time.

She was kinda puzzled herself, she  called in a pharm from the hospital to research. A very nice young lady came to the room in the clinic and spoke to me. She said honestly, "I do not know the answer at this moment but I will back with one'". About, 20 mins later she knock on the door, she said," I have your answer. The meds you are taking are counter acting each other. So that meant that the hormones meds I was taking was effecting the synthroid. So that meant that it was getting increased offten and I was feeling yucky alot. Ever since then, I kinda sorta understand, like I said kinda sorta, . Ladie being honest I think the doc's are as perplexed as we are at times. So, by leaving the hormones that kinda has regulated my thyroids a bit. But am going to have to the the t3 and t4 done tho, just to make sure. I hope we all get regulated, you know I have not seen show on Oprah about this, has anyone??? this would be a good one...the ratings would shoot off the roof....lol