hey ladies...me again?
Just trying to figure out if I'm getting enough estrogen. I was taking 1/2 push of estrogel but since I have not been able to get rid of vaginitis my gyn said to take a whole push. BUT--I also thought the estradiol would help with sleep issues which is why I went on HRT to begin with. When I had my blood work done my estradiol was 20. The range is suppose to be 12-528. So, I guess I am low? Anyhow, I am suffering so badly with the sleep issues--unable to fall asleep. Last night I layed there from 12:30 until 4:30 this morning. Even when I do sleep I wake up often. It seems like I just don't get that tired feeling that I use to get before menopause. I also use to be able to sleep all morning long if I could and now once I wake up I am UP and it is soooooooo hard to fall back asleep. DO ANY OF YOU SUFFER WITH THIS.

hey,

when do you take your E? if i take it at all close to bedtime, i am awake all night long. i also have noticed a big difference in sleep taking estrace instead of estrogel. i switched back a couple of weeks ago.

c

hey many boys,

I take the estrogel--one full push now--around 2 in the afternoon because I don't go to bed until midnight. Last night I was desperate for sleep so I took 1 ml. of 3 percent progesterone vaginally. I slept 10 hours-(even though I woke up a few times)--but this a.m. I had horrible gastro problems--lots of diarrhea. I haven't had that for quite a while. I don't know if it was the progesterone or not. So--I am in a quandry. I have also heard others say that estrace helps better with sleep. So--you have noticed a difference in your sleep with the estrace instead of the estrogel? If you don't mind me asking what is the strength of the estrace? Thanks for your help.

Hey there,

I have also notice that the vaginal P affects my bm's in the morning. I got the OK by my doctor to use it every other night so that's what I'm doing now.
I wonder if a full push of E at that time is still too close to bedtime for you. Can you try front loading it to the AM and use just a tiny squirt at 2? This was one of the problems I had with the gel. I could not get an "even" feel from it. I was a bit up and down throughout the day unfortunately.
I take 1.5 mgs of Estrace. It comes in 1mg. pills and .5 mgs. I take them both at one time in the morning and if I feel I need something later in the day, I will use a teeny, tiny dab of Estrogel. I could try 1 mg. in the morning and the .5 later, but I am a bit lazy and would forget (I know this because I've tried....;-)
I find that the Estrace is a more mellow feeling rather than a "hit" from the gel. I think it's because the gel crosses the skin quickly and gets into your system pretty fast, whereas the oral has some traveling to do first.
It might be why I sleep better with it. I does not give me that wired, buzzy feeling that the gel did.
I hope I've explained that well enough...
The gel was OK at first, but like I said I just want something that works without the hassles of application etc. At this point, the vag P is not getting 5 stars from me because it's a pain in the a$$ to use (and the BM issue too).
Good luck...I hope you sleep well tonight!

Hi many boys,
thanks so much for responding. Does the Vaginal P affect your BM's in a bad way? I did sleep better friday night after using the vaginal P--but the next morning my BMs were a mess. I did not use the vaginal P last night and I slept poorly. I had to take something after laying there for a couple of hours. I took one push of the estrogel and divided it in two doses--one first thing in the am and the other around 3 in the pm. Perhaps that was too late. It just seems like I don't get deep sleep. It is also fragmented. I go to bed not feeling tired. When I do fall asleep I usually wake up a couple of hours later feeling warm. I use to be able to sleep in but now I wake up and cannot go back to sleep. I'm wondering if the Estrace stays in your system longer. I worry that the estrogel doesn't stay with you long. I don't know. I am just struggling so badly. I guess I worry about the Estrace being more systemic as far as the estrogen goes. Maybe the fear is invalid? thanks for your help.

Avalina
It is not much good me advising you about estradiol as any amount in any form wires me up so much I feel like jumping off a bridge-so I cannot use it. I know when I was trying it I could not sleep at all no matter what time of day I applied it though.
I have read that apparently systemic estrogen does not necessarily help with vaginal dryness even if the dose is otherwise adequate. I understand it is common to use a separate estrogen cream for that, such as estriol.
It sounds as though the dose you are using may be too high for you? Maybe you could go back to the lower dose and try a local estrogen for the dryness. Estriol is much weaker than estrace cream or vagifem which are both estradiol, but it is very effective vaginally. It is the only one I can tolerate and I find it works really well!

janet c

The vag P has done that, yes but it's not intolerable. I have to give it some time, I guess (I'm not very patient....;-) Can you cut back on your P dose? What do you take? Maybe a touch less; just enough to help you sleep but not enough to bother your bowels?
The fragmented sleep is something I get with progesterone if I use too much. Just plain wakefulness is usually from using E too close to bedtime.
Not sure what the difference between Estrogel and Estrace is in terms of duration in your system. I do know that they are both systemic. Estrogel still has to go into your blood then in turn through your liver. I remember reading somewhere on this site about the length of time Estrogel is in your system and I think it's in and out pretty quick. Maybe you can search that?
Can you get a sample of Estrace from your doctor? You can easily give it a try for a week, then go back to the gel if you're not getting what you need from it.
Also have you tried some magnesium before bed? The puts me out, big time! And its good for you.

c

What kind of magnesium do you take and how much? Thanks, Mich

My Dr says that one pump of estrogel is equivalent to the lowest dose patch (.025 Vivelle dot). I have looked up the values for the two and the single pump seems to give a higher E level than the low dose patch but not by much. You could ask your Dr about upping the dose. I know a couple of people who take 2 squirts. Or you could try switching to a patch which may give you a steadier amount. Are you peri or post?

hey there,
Wow----too much information------I am on info. overload!!!! What works for some doesn't work for others. It is just so hard to figure out what to do. We are all different. Wish there was just an answer. I am so impatient at times. I think I have given the estrogel a reasonable amount of time--four months. Who knows.....maybe the estrogel is not helping me with the sleep issues--because I have not really noticed any dramatic difference. Plus I still have the vaginal burning/itching issues. So--what is a women to do. I am post menopausal. I have my uterus and one ovary--but have not had a period for years and years. I may ask for a sample of the patch but if the estrogen is energizing me then won't I be energized all the time since the patch is continuously pumping out estradiol--unlike squirting the estrogel on. ????????????????????? Going crazy.

when in dire need, it is SEROQUEL, 25 MG. AND WATCH OUT! ZZZZ', I went thru hell, trying to sleep, my cousin put me on the right path, i am not saying, hey, go do it, yet, i was desperate, and this works when in a mess, no sleep, cannot stay asleep, etc.
i must say, this is the only thing that worked for me...........thank goodness!
just my input

What is SEROQUEL 25 mg. Is it a sleeping aid or a estradiol patch?

Hey there,

Sometimes I use some magnesium oil if I have an ache from something (over doing it at yoga or walking for too long....), or I will use some liquid mag/cal before bed. The liquid is called CalMag Tonic by Innotech. I also has vitamin C in it. A shot before bed works for me. Some ladies can take magnesium in the morning, but I cannot!!
It's also great if you are suffering with stubborn bm's.....;-)
The magnesium oil is very handy for aches and pains and the liquid I take was recommended by a naturopath but you can use any kind of magnesium at all.

It is classified as an antipsychotic but is sometimes used off label as a sedative for those with sleep or anxiety disorders.

ok--thanks night owl--i will ask my doc about it.

I could have written this post! I have been suffering from ALL these same issues. Can't fall alseep, not even really tired. I thought I was going crazy. When I do, I just doze for about a half hour. Two months ago started bcp. Don't think it's helping much and perhaps I need more E. I also take Trazodone to help me sleep. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't.

Estradiol will help with your sleep issues, once you have gotten your blood level up to a decent amount. If your estradiol level is only 20 it's no wonder why you aren't sleeping. Get your blood level up around the 80 range and you should see improvement in your sleep issues...you may need 1 to 2 full pushes a day of Estrogel to get there.

hey night owl--thanks for the advice. I just saw my gyn and I asked her if I could have another blood test to see where my estradiol levels were and she said that she prefers to go by symptoms. I told her that I was still having difficulty with sleep issues--So--I am now on the patch--Vivelle Dot--guess it will give continuous estradiol instead of the surges like the estrogel. We'll see. Thanks avalina