Was wondering if women who have made it through to the other side, could answer this question. I have been trying BHRT and have had no luck getting my libido back. I have been having some pretty miserable side effects though. I was considering stopping BHRt and just waiting until the hole thing passes! But, I seriously wonder if libido would ever return, even if all the other symptoms ended??

I think for some, the libido returns.

For me, it just continually got less and less and eventually went from non existence to actual repulsion at seeing people kiss on TV, or at the thought of having any sex at all (like when we were 10). I am 8 years from my last period - was 49 at my last period - so I think if it was going to "return" ir would have already done so.

What was so hard for me was that I was one who was blessed with an outrageous sex drive since puberty so it was so opposite of what I felt was "me".

I have started BHRT in very tiny doses and it appears to be having a beneficial effect so far.

this is exactly how I feel now...repulsed at the whole thing....no periods now for 5yrs and I am still dead as a doornail...
thank god I have no husband or boyfriend...then again maybe that is why....god it is so hard to write anything positive
about this "passage" but I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel... yet...

be well

It happened to me-really fast after surgical menopause. I had always been a very sexual person and the fact that I could feel so repulsed was dreadfully upsetting as I still loved my husband very much.

I stuck it out for about 18 months but it got worse if anything until I didn't know who I was any more.

The key for me was to start testosterone supplementation which brought back sexual feelings again. I now also use a little estriol cream and that has helped me even more to feel affectionate as well as sexual.

I know without supplementation my libido would probably never return as my ovaries were removed, so I am happy to continue with the hormones. I think sometimes women who keep their ovaries can also find things can go downhill after menopause never to return. It is one thing not to be ramantly sexual any more but quite another to feel repulsed by even closeness and touching and I couldn't bear that!

There is always the option for any woman to try a little topical testosterone and estrogen without taking full blown HRT. The little I use topically is enough for me and has transformed my life and my marriage

janet c

Thanks for all the really nice replies to this question! All my life, I had a lot of sexual feelings, until I started into menopause. Since then, there is NOTHING. No desire at all and probably somewhat of a repulsion towards any physical affection. I have been using Biest and Testosterone for the last month now and still have absolutely NO interest whatsoever. I am starting to get a bit discouraged and hope that I can somehow turn this around! Was hoping that possibly if I just stopped messing around with the hormones and waited it out, that my libido would return. It doesn't sound like this is real likely to happen.

Maybe you haven't given things long enough? I know that if your starting testosterone level is very low it can take months sometimes to notice an improvement.
Testosterone is such a strong punchy hormone and if it is supplemented too quickly, an overdose can easily occur, and trust me-it is not very nice! I believe that when it is compounded properly it is done at a very safe gentle rate to build up slowly so it might be quite a while before you notice any difference.

The body deals with testosterone differently in a woman, in that it stays around longer, unlike estrogen which has to be given as a regular dose. You don't always need to use T every day once the level is up -often once a week or less.

You might find that before you notice any return to libido you may notice first an increased energy and enthusiasm for life. Look out for those signs because they could mean you are reaching your optimum level!

I really wouldn't be discouraged yet. Testosterone is "the business" as long as you have the right amount in your body. It will work I am sure.

Good luck

janet c

What kind of topical testosterone cream? otc, or perscribed? I've been on bhrt for 3 months now, & am supplementing it with oral dhea, which is supposed to naturally elevate testosterone. So far....nothing. I think I have to speak to my doctor about adding a little testosterone to my cream perscription.
Binsky

Binksy, What type of BHRT are you on? I know for myself, not all estrogen is the same. When I was taking Biest, I felt nothing so my symptoms just kept getting worse. I tried supplementing with DHEA and that also made me feel worse.

After 2 years of trying different things I've finally found a combination that works. I take 1 1/2 pill of 1mg estrace, 1ml 5% Testosterone compound cream and every 3rd month I take a vaginal progesterone cream. I now have the libido I had in my 30s and while I still don't have the energy I would like, I can honestly say I have more good days than bad.

Eating clean goes along with this, I had candy (trick-o-treat leftovers) and that has done me in, it will take about a week to get this out of my system and then I can expect my energy level to go back up but unless I watch every morsel, I'm going to suffer. Suger gives me hot flashes too so I wonder if it negates the estrogen effect. Anyway, along with the supplements, be sure to keep your diet healthy. Also have your vitamin D levels checked. Mine was low and since I've been supplementing with Vit D, I have felt much better.

Good luck... this can be a long journey.

Carol-do you think it is the estriol in the Biest that is the problem? When I try to increase the amount of Estriol cream I use it makes me feel woolly headed and lethargic-not in the mood at all, although all the physical feelings are very strong. Just mentally can't be bothered. Could the estriol be the problem?

janet c

I hate to say it's the problem in your case but I know I didn't begin to feel good till I stopped taking the biest and started just taking estradiol in the gel form. (Estragel) And it was only then that my blood levels showed my estrogen elevated, with biest, I was still down in the 12 & 13 range. I do think it's more tolerable for me too, It's been two years now so I can't remember how I felt but I do remember thinking that I felt worse with it than I did without it.

But you seem to feel ok without it don't you?

I feel ok without any systemic estrogen but I have found that I need some estriol cream with the testosterone for my libido. I remember ages ago, reading a post of yours, when you were trying testosterone only, and you said you found it didn't work very well until you started using estrogen too.

I hadn't realised how much difference it would make until I tried it. I realised I had been feeling very cold and unemotional with just testosterone and then I used some estriol cream as well and it made things so much better in every way!
The problem is that the estriol goes systemic for me so I have to be really careful not to use too much. I have been trying to increase the amount I am using to help with atrophy but at present I can't manage more than a half-pea sized lump daily otherwise I get really woolly headed and depressed.

I was also linking my question to the original poster-kkc1234-who says she is on biest and testosterone but has had no return to libido. I wonder if it is the estriol componant which is the problem for her too.

It does seem that the estriol could be the culprit-do you think?

janet c

I love watching nature programs on TV. The lionesses, when young in years, come into heat quite readily (almost t the point of being "tarts") but as they get older they seem to get beyond childbearing years and are no longer interested in the "king's" advances. They literally sit down on the job until HE finds another interest.

Perhaps the same can be said of humans. Once we are past childbearing years, there no longer is a need to send out signals that we are available. Our procreative powers were strong, almost uncontrollable when young but once over, our bodies don't think proceation. Although sex, nowadays, has become recreational, indulging whenever the mood strikes.

At least that is my take on this. I, too, don't feel the urge to become "united" and prefer to be left alone. Am almost eight years post.

Sybille

If that is how you feel then that is fine, but intimacy for me and I believe many other older women is a demonstration of love and an intrinsic part of a happy relationship.

I have watched many women switch off at menopause. It is so sad to see how detatched they become from their husbands and how they just turn into grumpy old women. I decided that was not going to happen to me! Indeed I have had good reason to give it up as I had a gyn cancer and a surgical menopause and it would have been the perfect opportunity to say "no more" had I so wished.

Yes, sex may often be recreational for some people. At my age I am not into that! Personally for me it is more about continuing to keep alive a happy loving marriage which has survived for 38 years, and is not just about me but about US as a couple.

I honestly hope I never lose the urge to feel "united" and end up preferring to be left alone. How sad that would be!

janet c

Never lost it and hope I never do. I have always been a very athletic fitness oriented person. Obviously because of that my testosterone level is great. I also never stopped feeling and thinking like a girl. I see so many women that seem to lose sight of that.

I think Sybil was making a point about the 'natural' process of evolution or stages of life. When we are supplementing with hormones then we are going against the natural process and attempting to halt or at least postpone this latter stage. Wouldn't you agree?

I mean if I didn't have my creams & pills, I'd want to be left alone too. But I dose up each day because I do enjoy being a woman and I like being sexy and I'll keep supplementing as long as I have that choice. But not everyone has this choice and not everyone is wired to want this choice. It's these differences that make the world go around and such a lovely place to be.

Janet, To answer your question... I have noticed that even though my estrogen is high, I still suffer from vaginal dryness and I'm thinking of adding a vaginal estriol cream for that. Crazy though that I should still have dryness, don't you think? when my estradiol levels are 229?

I wouldn't know about HRT or BHRT, and it's effects on libido. I personally have never taken either. My journey thru this has been totally natural, so I was answering from that standpoint.

CG, that's very interesting. Are you post? Have you taking any natural supplements at all or is it just clean eating? I love to hear about successful journeys and yours sounds like one. Can you give us more details? I don't know that I would consider myself athletic but I've worked out with weights for the past 30 years and while I think it has helped me at this stage I don't think it was enough to get me through without HRT. I recognize your name well enough to know that you post frequently but I apologize I can't remember if you have already told us how you manage through this. Do you mind sharing?

Hey Carol

yes I am post. No I have never taken any form of peri/meno supplements or chemicals. The only nutritional supplements I take are C and CoQ10. I have always eaten very healthy. I rarely eat starch or sugar...actually I don't like bread or sweets. Well......ok I admit to scarfing down the occasional oreo.

I played sports in school and after graduating, I joined a fitness club and never stopped exercising. I'm 55 and still work out 5 days per week.

I had my first peri/meno symptoms a couple of weeks before my 53rd birthday. All h*** broke loose. Every couple of weeks one symptom would end only to be replaced with a new one. They came in waves....Drenching nite sweats was the first one. Then nausea and dizziness. Then bone shaking cold flashes. Adrenaline surges and the absolute worst was food allergies/sensitivities brought on by unstable hormones which skewed my auto immune system. The last symptom was insomnia. This all took place over the course of 1 year. It was a nightmare rollercoaster ride. Then literally 12 months after it all started it was over.

I did not mean for my earlier posts to imply my journey was a breeze....it was far from it. But I will say....my husband was my rock thru it....and I never ever lost my passion for him. He was my escape. There were many times I didn't think I could go to the club to workout.....he would say "we'll do it together, honey".

I truly think my lifestyle habits are why I was almost 53 before I had even that first symptom...and I also believe it had a huge impact on it only lasting 1 year.

One more thing....my 81 year old mother has been very fitness oriented her entire life as well. She also started her journey in her early 50's and had a very brief transition with no hormone supplementation of any kind either.

Sorry for the long response Carol......this takes you and anyone else wondering about it...thru my personal "change of life" story. I survived it.....and am on the other side whole, healthy and loving life as much as I did before it happened.

Thanks for sharing, I also developed food sensitivities during peri. It's so comforting to find I'm not the only one.. So many people think I'm crazy when I tell them.

Your story makes me wonder if I could be past this if I had gone through it rather than try to escape it. Now, I'm at the point where I'm feeling almost normal and too afraid to stop hrt but maybe someday. I'm only 50 right now so not ready to take the leap but thinking maybe at 52...

Thanks again for sharing, You have given a lot of us hope tonight,

QuoteCarolH "I think Sybil was making a point about the 'natural' process of evolution or stages of life. When we are supplementing with hormones then we are going against the natural process and attempting to halt or at least postpone this latter stage. Wouldn't you agree?"

Absolutely-but this is why we are not like the animals, in that OUR evolution has brought us to a place where we can choose.
I felt like I wanted to be left alone at one point but I had a memory of how wonderful things used to be before my surgery. I wanted to get it back and while it is not as good as it used to be, it is better than feeling cold and empty, as I do without anything.

Maybe you should try using a local hormone like vagifem for your dryness? I believe systemic HRT does not always reach the vaginal tissues sufficiently.

janet c

"Maybe you should try using a local hormone like vagifem for your dryness? I believe systemic HRT does not always reach the vaginal tissues sufficiently."

Janet is right there. Is your estrogen in cream form? If it is, you can use it vaginally - or at least some of it - and it WILL become systemic - but it will relieve vaginal atrophy much better.

Coastergirl, it's wonderful that you experienced menopause this way. But you write as if the rest of us have a "choice" in whether we lose our sex drive or "feel like a girl". I also am a fitness person and have lifted weights from my later 30's to the present (57). It did nothing to stop the plummeting of my testosterone. I also experienced some symptoms of menopause, but not many. Some flashes, night sweats, all over within a year and a half or so. I was on the other side, feeling pretty good - except that I had a much lowered sex drive. I used some DHEA compounded cream and vagifem for years, which helped somewhat, but stopped working. What if this had happened to you? What if, in spite of clean eating and working out, you DID lose that drive to have sex and even became repulsed by the idea? It was NOT a choice of mine to feel that way. But if it happens to you, you have a couple of choices. Live with it, or use something "unnatural" like BHRT to get it back.

Overall, I think I had a pretty easy menopause, except for this. I am one who doesn't want to live without a sex drive, if I can help it in any way.

I also understand sybilleruth's point, and I have thought of that myself. Nature just doesn't care whether we have a sex drive post menopause. It no longer matters to the species. And many women are happy living that way. If they're happy with it, that's fine. Many men are also happy with a decreased or even non existent sex life - not all men have a strong drive as they age. What matters is what is important to the individual woman, the individual couple, and their life. People who are happy and healthy the way they are don't need supplementation.

But unless you lose a part of yourself that is very important to you, you can't insist that you would never use "unnatural" methods to get it back. You just have to count yourself unbelievably lucky for getting to the other side with everything you feel is important in making you the person you are - you haven't lost anything that makes you "you". And you just have to pray that it stays that way.

just to add my experience:

i have been very physically active my entire life & had a high sex drive that just totally tanked starting in my late 30s. i probably started noticing other changes that i would attribute to peri starting at this time as well. i was fit, thin, had great eating habits, etc. none of that stopped me from being pummeled by peri symptoms.

the only good thing that i can say at this point (now 46) is that my libido does make an appearance here & there (often in my dreams & i mean that literally). like the rest of this, i have no idea what will be around on the fabled other side.

Hi wildflower,

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I said. I never have nor would I ever tell another PS sister to take or not take bhrt or hrt. I was simply replying to the OP with my personal story of libido. And then expounded upon it when asked by CarolH.

I'll restate....for me personally my libido remained intact during transition and after. I have never looked at sex as "survival of the species". In other words.....it never occurred to me that sex is only for making babies and nothing more.

My workout routine has never been as simple as lifting weights. And my statement about remaining a girl....well by that I mean my attitude. I still wear stiletto's as my main shoe choice. I love embellished jeans, and trendy clothes. Because of my fitness level I can wear them. I love facials, spa days and makeup and shoulder length hair. It's my mindset. Just because I'm middle aged, it doesn't mean I'm an old lady. I pray I NEVER develop an old lady mindset. But sadly you will have to agree that the majority of women my age do not think like or take care of themselves this way. That's all I mean't about staying a girl at heart and mind. I truly believe mindset also plays a big role in women's lives with regards to libido.

Coastergirl

It is great that you feel it is your regime which has helped you, but I think the way you are has an element of luck attached to it nevertheless.
I was like you-I was not overweight, I ate a good diet, I exercised regularly, including swimming three times a week, cycling and walking. I never even took systemic HRT during peri.
Yet out of the blue I was diagnosed with endometrial cancer for which the risk factors include-being on HRT, being overweight, a high fat diet, never having children (I had three) etc. I had none of these factors! It was just bad luck

Four years on from surgery I still keep very fit and do all the things I used to do. I really do think libido has nothing to do with mindset though. I know what it was like when my libido gradually fizzled away after my ovaries were removed. I could do all the exercise in the world, wear lovely clothes and keep myself looking attractive but once my testosterone was gone it was gone and I felt myself changing despite my desire not to.
This can also happen to women whose ovaries begin producing less testosterone. I don't think mindset has much to do with it.
Indeed I think it is the other way around. I think your good testosterone level is what gives you the positive youthful mindset. In fact I know it is in my case.
I felt like I was turning into a sad old lady until I began the testosterone supplementation. Then I began to come alive again and had more energy, drive and enthusiasm for living again.

So please do not be too critical of those women who do not think like or take care of themselves as you do. You have so far not been in a position to know what it feels like to lose that vital hormone.

You are extremely fortunate and I hope you continue to do well

janet c

Hi Janet.

yes yes I totally agree with you about testosterone levels. My first reply to the OP stated just that. I have high levels of testosterone. Couple that with lifestyle and mindset, and your doing all you can do naturally. I attribute nothing to luck.

Again....I'll say that I was an athlete in school. I continued that fitness level thru my 20's, 30's 40's, etc. Hence my naturally high testosterone levels.

I know a couple of ladies in their late 60s who are still actively sexual. One is in a new relationship & she says the sex is great, but she did need to address some vag atrophy issues. She was unaware that her "kittycat" as she referred to it had lost its purr. She had had a hyster in her early 50s & she felt her atrophy might not have occurred had she remained sexually active after her surg, but her husband passed away & she did not pursue it.

The other lady told me she regular vibes & the O's feel the same -- she told me that yr clitoris does not change as much as the other parts of the genitals post meno. She also has reg S w her husband who is 10 years younger.... They own a farm together, so she gets alot of exercise & is energetic etc.

Both claimed their libido was good -- even thought it better than when younger. Do consider however that one is in a new relationship & the other lady kept herself going even post meno.

Both stories are anecdotal, but certainly the desire for sex does not seem to just stop. It much depends on the person, I think. Both ladies are very healthy BTW -- one plays on a tennis team & the other is a farmer, so they do get alot of exercise & look good too.

One difference between your stories, wisevixen, and the original question in this thread is that these ladies never appeared to have lost their sex drive to begin with. I have read lots of studies or articles that mention that many (some say most) women keep their sex drives through and beyond menopause. Vaginal atrophy is a different issue - more of "mechanics" than drive to have sex. My mechanics were great - if I forced myself to masturbate, (something I did quite willingly, a lot, when younger) I could easily have an O, also could do so with sex, but wanting to actually do it was the problem - I JUST didn't have anything but repulsion for the idea in the last year or so.

The original question was - does sex drive ever RETURN when meno ends? I still wonder about that. Most of the people who posted here either never lost theirs to begin with, or, if they did lose the drive, didn't seem to be able to get it back without supplemental hormonal help.

An update on my BHRT that I started in Sept. VERY low dose - one TENTH of a mg. biest with one tenth of a mg. testosterone in the morning/ one tenth of a mg. biest with 25 mg. progesterone in the evening. 1 mg. estriol vaginally every other night right now (lowered to twice a week in the next couple of weeks), and 25 mg. pregnenelone every morning. I'm noticing much improvement, I'm feeling more affectionate with my husband, I'm not repulsed by watching kissing or sex scenes on TV, I'm even noticing a little bit of a "turned on" feeling occasionally, something I haven't felt in a couple of years. I've had my own bedroom for years because I sleep better alone and last night it was actually hard for me to get out of my husband's bed and go into my own (something I usually can't wait to do, after sex LOL) "Mechanically", it appears the estriol works better for me than the vagifem did - there is a lot more lubrication. The vagifem did work - nothing hurt and there was moisture - but with estriol it's more like when I was younger.

Are their any stories here - anecdotal or personal - of women who got their DRIVE to have sex back after meno without hormonal help, not stories about never losing it in the first place?