I recently stumbled upon your website and wanted to write a messaging asking for help, insight, and advice. I want to be as brief as I can but could probably write for days.

In general, my wife has an overpowering fear that I am going to leave her. She is 100% convinced I have had an affair and even knows with whom and when (completely untrue). She is also 100% convinced that I am gaslighting her to prove that she is crazy so that I can blame a failed relationship on her sanity thus executing my plan to leave her. At times, I even believe she has hallucinated about events that have happened in our house and specifically in our bedroom at night (taking pictures at night, rifling through her purse while she sleeps, making telephone calls at night for starters). These events are all a part of the gaslighting she says. Many times, we get along great as if nothing really ever happened. And then other times, I get the 3rd degree over stupid things like playing golf or working late.

For 19 of 22 years, our marriage was perfect. None of these fears existed (at least not visually). All these fears and “delusions” happened suddenly 3 years ago following a short stint of taking care of her mother (stroke victim) and the departure of our oldest child (son) to college. I only mention these because I theorize that they may have some type of triggering effect for her. 1 year ago, she had an ovary removed because of a cyst and now has all the symptoms of menopause. She is now 49.

Over the course of the last 3 years, my wife has steadily started to question my commitment to her and our family. Over time, these questions continued to amplify. She stated that my “behavior” led her to these questions and subsequent conclusions. Never has she had any facts supporting her claims, just my “behavior”. From my perspective, many of these “behaviors” are twisted facsimiles of what really happened or what was really said.

Then, just over 1 year ago, I believe she had a breakdown. She was convinced that I had the house wired and was surveilling her from afar. The reasoning was so that I would know where she was at all times so that I could partake in my nefarious activities. She asked me to leave the house and then called the police to have me arrested for unauthorized surveillance. I begged her to seek some help but she refused and instead assured me that she was working with “all the right people” including an attorney. This scared me enough to seek an attorney myself who convinced me to file separation papers in an attempt to block her from doing the same (1st to file has control). This only made things worse and for the past year, I’ve been begging and appeasing in an attempt to regain her trust. We have also been in counseling this entire year but I feel like that is being used as a hammer to beat me over the head and have since refused to participate without some type of objective to accomplish.

We are still in a very bad place. She continues to assert my guilt for having an affair and my plans to leave her. And she continues to declare that I am gaslighting her when little things occur around the house such as when a remote control stops working or a light goes out. The bottom line is that she really believes that I am trying to leave and that I am counting the days when our youngest turns 18 (in a few months). She is convinced that is when my plan to leave will spring into action. She no longer sleeps in our bedroom and instead locks herself into our guest room each night. We have a security system that she arms and will share the code with everyone else in the family but me. She has other locked rooms and cabinets that I am not allowed to enter any more. She has also swiped a substantial amount of our family savings to cushion her blow when I leave. I told her that all these things hurt me deeply but she just says that I am lying. Her denial of my feelings is what I think is most abusive.

I cannot get our counselor to recommend another therapist and I cannot convince my wife that we should seek another counselor. Posts on other boards have mentioned this could be menopause related. So I thought I would share my story on this board and see if others are experiencing the same things. I love my wife dearly and have stood by her for the past 3 years hoping she would snap out of it. But she insists that she has done nothing wrong and will not seek help.

Thanks for letting me feedback and thanks for the website.

This is a tough time of life. You need to realize that much of what your wife took as reality for many years is kind of breaking up. The foundation is crumbling and she's not sure which way is up.

I never heard the term gaslighting and had to look it up. I think you need to take that seriously and do whatever you can to counteract that seeming behavior.

During the hardest perimenopause years, I found that I could not contradict my wife at all. It never worked. So I had to learn not to argue points. There is NO benefit, zero. You are not in a court of law, you are in a very dicey emotional relationship. Therefore, just float with it. You'll need to learn what works for you and your wife. Does not responding and walking out of the argument work? Does a little laugh work? Does a hurt response work? The idea is to diffuse the situation and let it go. Don't give it any credence. There are women here right now gnashing their teeth wanting to chew me apart, but truly, if you did nothing wrong, you aren't wrong. If she thinks that, then that's her problem. The issue is, you have to let it go. Let it go, flow with it and you'll find your life will be better.

Today after menopause my wife wants no sex, little if any hugs, nothing like before. My wife was almost insatiable. If she got a little drunk, she'd want sex in the parking lot. Now, nothing, ever. This can be a massive change in desire and in the relationship. You need to decide what you will do and how you will cope. It is NOT easy and there is no sense in pretending it will be. There will be yelling and recriminations, accusations and ill feelings. How you begin to react will largely set the stage to how your relationship will grow and survive or not. Your wife, at times, may not be a logical, rational, willing participant.

Even though everything is different, my wife and I are planning our retirement and we will stay together. There is a comfort in that and a great joy we have one another. The death of the sexual relationship was painful and trying. But that is after all what perimenopause and menopause are all about, the ending of the ability to bring children into the relationship. the ultimate reason for sex.

Hang in there and try to realize this is very hard for your wife too. Very.

Mike welcome to Powersurge.

I believe that some of your wife's issues are menopausal. That being said, You CANNOT tell her that! You knowing that she is going through peri can help you deal with the situation but it will not change the situation. Counseling may or may not help. When you say that she has said that "she has done nothing wrong" she is RIGHT!
Neither of you are the cause of this time in life. How you choose to deal with it is the key! My suggestion is to read the posts on this forum so you can understand what is happening to your wife and to you. Find comfort in the fact that you are not alone. Remember that men want to fix things and you can not fix this! Read about detachment in various places in the mens forum. Take care of your self while still remembering your marriage vows.

I too had to look up this term:
Gaslighting is a form of intimidation or psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory and perception. The classic example of gaslighting is to change things in a person's environment without their knowledge, and to explain that they "must be imagining things" when they challenge these changes.

I agree with RegGuy take this seriously it is not going to go away.

Fasten your seat belt and get ready for a long bumpy roller coaster ride. Life is not going to be the same, but if you choose you can fashion a new life.

Hi there...welcome to the PS Board!


You wife is probably going through menopause; however, a lot of what you are describing is not normal behavior.
Let's see if we can't figure out what is going on...


You mentioned having a counselor. May I ask a question?

Is your wife on any type of prescription drugs of any kind.

Is she using anything else? Legal or not... Does she drink?
(no judgment here no matter what you say)


(sorry, but I needed to ask this)

Before I comment, I would like a bit more informaiton.


Shebee

I'm with Shebee, need more info. I know peri/meno can make you feel off kilter but from what you describe it sounds like a bit more than that. I also am not judging. Does she take sleep aids i.e. ambien? My gut feeling is something else is going on but like Shebee said I need more info to comment further.

Take care, Mich

First off, I want to thank everyone for reading and responding to my post. I am new to using message boards and I am very uncomfortable sharing personal information in this type of forum. But I am also feeling very desperate.

I have typed a couple of different replies but I always go way too deep so I will just try to address a few comments and answer some questions.

Overall, I’m not sure if the root cause of my wife’s behavior is menopause. I’ve been spending most of my time researching various psychosis and mental disorders. But these all seem to be very extreme. Yet to an outsider reading these words, what I am going through also appears to be very extreme.

What has led me to something like menopause is the suddenness of her changes. We’ve been married almost 22 years and I’ve known her for 25 years. The first 19 years of our marriage were perfect. We very rarely ever argued and NEVER got personal in our discussions. But that all changed suddenly 3 years ago. She argued and accused regularly and always went too far (personally). Once my feelings were hurt, things would be fine for some time but something would always come back and we would start over. I resisted the urge to get angry and to get personal, although I know I slipped a few times.

She was 47 when this all began and did not show any signs of menopause. We were going through a transition in our family with 1 child (son) heading off to college and the other child (daughter) starting high school. We had just gone through a very traumatic experience with her mother so I thought this all was having an effect on her.

She was not (and is not) on any medication that I know of. But she is also very guarded and secretive now. She never tells me when she is going to the doctor so I’m not really sure. 1 year ago, she had an ovary removed because of a cyst and has exhibited signs of menopause ever since. “Signs” include hot flashes, absence of a period, etc. Her attitude towards me has not changed and at times, appears to be getting worse. We don’t sleep in the same room, she locks her bedroom door at night (the guest room), she carries her purse with her at all times (or at least has it in sight), she has accused me of filming her and posting it on the internet, and she showers in the dark. I've got a list over 2 pages long of these bizarre behaviors, yet our counselor doesn't see anything excessive enough to declare a psychosis. Basically, a psychosis can only be declared if you are being chased by the government or an alien I guess.

I agree that if we both understand that this is all change related, then we can manage it and go with the flow. But as of now, she is steadfast in her convictions that I have done terrible things to our marriage and that I have even bigger plans ahead. She is convinced that I am the enemy. I am not equipped to manage that nor can I just ride this out.

I am going to keep reading posts out here to see if any of them sound similar. Thanks again to all for the dialog.

I do not think your wife will agree that it is menopause and I REPEAT. DO NOT TELL HER OR SUGGEST THAT SHE IS GOING THRU PERI.

My wife also says that I have done terrible things and she feels that I have had an "affair with her marriage" but not with another person.
So the mantra remains the same just a different story, I think if you read enough posts you will understand more of what is going on. And yes I think there are hormonal changes going on in your wife. You described some of them, hot flashes, irregular periods.. etc.

I don't understand that "you can't ride this out" What about your marriage vows, in sickness and in health. This is like a sickness, just not one that treatable.

I have to run now but I will post some more tomorrow.

oh gosh i feel for your wife i my self had a meno-induced phychosis
thank the good lord it only lasted a few weeks, but i was hospitalized
and given meds- in my state you need at least 3 family members to commit some one ,
is there any other family that would be on your "side"? years ago they did call it a nervous
break down, and yes when women go thru the "change" it can
happen, i hope you can convince her to come to realize
you are on her side, maybe you can get her to read this website?
either way i wish you luck......

Some of your items sound similar like I am the cause of all of her problems. My wife did go through a period where her reactions were extreme like I was listening to her phone calls, but all that has subsided. We seem to be in a calm period at this point(around 18 month), but she still gets mad if I bring up a sensitve topic. She has not committed to the marriage at this point, but has stopped bringing up divorce. Your case does sound somewhat extreme and there may be something else involved, but only a good therapist can give you that info. Good Luck to you.

Hi MikeSixDee and also I'll add my welcome to this fine group of people, much like you, searching for answers and common themes to a phase in life that affects all of us so differently.

I really didn't know what to say when I read your first post, but now I also share an opinion (and that's all it is) that this change can be attributed to perimenopause and the changes your wife is going through. The theme is very similar... years of what many describe as wedded bliss, and then sometimes gradually, sometimes with no warning, KABOOM... something goes off and you are left wondering what is happening.

I can also relate to this, where I would say 18 years of wedded bliss was shared, and people regarded myself and my wife as the model couple, family, etc. In the last two years or so, maybe longer, bit by bit there was an erosion, and along with it more and more irritation, mood swings, occasional hot flashes, etc. Although I knew the biological side of what menopause is, I did not know the extent of the impact it can have on a woman. In hindsight, what I thought was stress in a relationship, I now believe is a combination of all... the stresses of life and raising teenagers, with a side order of hormonal imbalances starting to kick in at various points along the way of my wife's cycles. Then as things gradually got worse, the brick wall eventually was hit this June. If I look at my wife's behaviours and feelings towards me from February to today, it is night and day. I barely recognize her around me. A sincere smile is EXTREMELY rare (I can count them with one hand in the past several months. I don't even need a single finger in the last 4 weeks I think.) Although not psychotic, but she has had cases of extreme depression, thoughts while driving of just plowing into a telephone pole, etc. Also, she harboured (and likely still does) feelings of being imprisoned, held captive in her own home. I was, and still am in her mind I expect, the jailer... the prison warden. Anything I would do or say became twisted into a method of control, a strategy to influence her, interference in her freedom. This from a woman who has been reasonably happy throughout the better part of her life, living in comfort, having her own car, free and able to do pretty much what she wanted etc... well, of course you know with kids, family, a household to keep together, and a workaholic husband in my case (trying to provide for a great lifestyle)... it is easy at midlife to view all you have done not as an accomplishment, but now the burden of all.

Also... there is hidden baggage... and it needs to come out as during this point in her life. While going through this change, and dealing with all the physical symptoms, there are mental symptoms as well. The simplest things like forgetting where your keys are, to not being able to plan for the future are nagging. Add to it any suppressed feelings, regrets of decisions made, any hidden baggage... all is now amplified and becomes an anchor for her progress and MUST be dealt with before one can even hope to continue as an individual first, and then as a couple.

(Ok, I hope I have hit several points here and the ladies will add to this I'm sure as well... but a lot of this comes from my observations as well as the times that my wife has opened up enough to explain things to me that are going on in her mind... which by the way she continually says on that matter "Don't try to understand me and I can't tell you much because I don't even understand myself!") Some comment on this board that their spouses are in denial on menopause even though every sign points to it. I suppose I'm lucky as my wife completely accepts she is going through it, and completely accepts her responsibilities (although I never met her... sounds like she has a fantastic therapist who is really helping her turn over all the rocks and make her realize things... including accountability and responsibility). All this though doesn't really help though the changes, the behaviours, the feelings, etc that are all switched around to the extent that I wonder if I will be married to her in a few years, or if we will be on separate paths.

Currently, I may not be called the enemy or other, but I might have well be labeled as such given her behaviours. Her trust in me has gone downhill, she is cold, she rarely communicates other than the day to day stuff. She accepts very few of my offers of assistance when in need.

Having said all this, all is still pale in comparison to what you describe. In your case, things sound pretty extreme, and much like the others, sounds like there is a little more that is going on. I suppose the only thing to do is be patient, and watch for the rare moments (and hopefully there are some) when you detect she is receptive to talk and listen to your suggestions. Hopefully there are still some of these moments where you can plant a seed on the changes she is experiencing, and some suggestions for her to explore what may be going on. What I find is another opinion, that is not yours... is worth much more... Our family doctor is a woman... Boy did that ever help as when my wife went to her first, every word she said was remembered vividly, and believed! I guess really what I'm saying is to try to find the ways to crack the shell a bit, but gently, so as to get her to believe your genuine interest in her well-being, that it is all about her (not you of course) and get those other people of "trust" involved... as you won't go very far on your own.

Anyways, hope this helps to get going... Hang in there, stay positive, and take care of yourself!!!

Just to clarify "you can't ride this out", I don't mean leave or quit. I mean that I can't "go with the flow" or just "take it as it comes". If the roles were reversed, I would be crucified as an abusive husband and my wife would have teams of resources at her disposal to do me in. Athough my wife is not physically abusive, I would think her behaviors certainly over the past year would be classified as mentally abusive. I am honoring my wedding vows and I know if the roles were truly reversed, I would greatful that my wife would do the same.

MikeSixDee,

I know that you are probably uncomfortable sharing information, but no one knows who you are or etc., so relax. Just share what you think will be helpful to us. It does not have to get real personal. This will enable us to give you some food for thought.

The one thing that I learned about this board is that there are some wonderful, caring people here. When you are in earnest and ask questions, you can expect an honest reply.


I asked if your wife was on any type of scripts because the symptoms including hallucinations, delusions, unusual behavior, and etc. can be caused by prescrip. drugs or a combination of things, including herbs. Also after a time of great stress these symptoms can appear.

Depending on your situation....I might wonder if your wife was having an affair? (Sorry if I am being too blunt.) Her behavior is very bizarre...locking rooms and cabinets. Removing money from the account is unfair, but depending on the situation, it might be viewed by her as a safeguard.

You wife is probably going through meno, but truthfully, I would want her to have a complete check-up, including hormone testing. There are many things that can minic menopause symptoms, including lyme disease. Lyme disease comes with a whole host of symptoms that left untreated only get worse with time.


Menopause is a hard time for women, not only mentally, but physically. With mood changes and body changes, and the fact that one is getting older takes a toll on us. I think it is normal to mourn the loss of youth, not only with women, but men, too.
Some do a better job with accepting this than others.

I might add (Gee, sorry again if I am off base...)...if you have any porno around (even car magazines at this point...LOL! ...oh no not the car mags!), it can be devastating to your gal. There is no way that she can compare with the little air-brushed beauties. This can also happen if she notices you looking at someone while you are out. Sometimes when women realize that they are older, their self-worth can take a nose dive. I am not the jealous type; I have always been secure, but I have girl-friends who seem nuts about this.

Boy, I could be way off base, but I have very little to go on at this point.

Please forgive if I have said anything out of line.

Shebee

Thanks Shebee. Your questions are not out of line. During our challenges the last 3 years, my wife has experienced 3 physical ailments: She had a vertigo attack in 2007 (1st and only ever), 2 months later she had a gall bladder attack (and removed), then the ovary removed. I mention this because through these ailments, she was tested, checked, xrayed, and "xxgrammed" every which way you can imagine (that is how they found the cyst on the ovary because she had no symptoms). She says that everything tests out ok. But I stress that I know she has seen her Dr's a few times without me knowing it and probably would not tell me the results of any test if they were negative.

She was not on any medications when this all started. About 1 year ago, she started taking high blood pressure medication as her BP has risen above the normal range. I believe she is still taking that medication. This doesn’t seem to have affected her because her moods were the same before/after she started the medications.

I’m not a porn person BUT there was an incident where a website she owned was hacked and became a host for pornography. She claims that I was involved but I wasn’t. We are both computer people so I certainly had the skills to pull off what happened, but I did not. The fact that I had these skills automatically made me guilty.

As for her having an affair, I highly doubt it, but I have always wondered that myself. She was a stay at home mom and never went out much alone or with friends. She never put herself in any situations that could have led to an affair. She was never a chaser and would be categorized as a “very good Catholic girl”. I know everyone can falter, but I really don’t think she is that kind of person. She is THE strongest person I know when it comes to faith and commitment.

BUT the way she says many things to me almost feel like she is projecting feelings on me that I don’t have (like “you had an affair” and “you hate your life”). So much so that at times I feel like I’ve actually done or said the things she asserts on me. Then I sort of shake it off and come back to reality and remind myself that I haven’t done or felt any of the things she suggests. It’s very scary how this doubt can be created in an otherwise strong and confident person like myself.

I know she is having a very difficult time right now and I am trying to be as supportive as I can. All I need for encouragement would be SOME recognition from her that she is contributing to our situation and maybe an apology when she recognizes she has crossed a line. I have done that many times (recognized and apologized). But I get 0% from her. I would be more than happy to go through menopause or psychosis or whatever with her as long as she is trying to work through the changes as well. But her mode of operation has been to entrench and protect and the walls are so deep and high right now, I feel like I will never get in. So that is why I feel so desperate for a call, a diagnosis, something that we can both start to work on together instead of her attacking me.

Thanks all for listening and sharing.

MikeSixDee,

Ok...Thanks for your reply. You just elimated about one million things. LOL!

First of all, you have my sympathy!


At her age, and the fact that your marriage was good up until a certain time, plus the removal of an ovary, would point to menopause symptoms. Most doctors simply ignore this or put a woman on AD's. (I think to get rid of them! LOL! If I were a doc, I would be sorely tempted to do the same thing.) I would still think that a doc should rule out other things...but since she has been to the doc, this has probably already happened.

Many women during meno go through a shutting down period. This enables them to refocus and move into a new direction.


One of the common symptoms of meno is going through Depersonalization, This is a malfunction (or rather a self-preservation ) mechanism by which an individual has self awareness. It is a feeling of watching oneself act, while having limited or altered emotion. I describe it as being inside looking out as the world passes by. Depression & etc. goes with this.

Derealization is like ....hmmmmm...just do things on auto pilot. You are disconnected. Reality and fantasy merge into one. You live in a "dream-like" state. If she is seeing a counselor, then I would think that she is currently working through past hurts & etc. Many times young women push hurtful memories down without dealing with them, only to find that they resurface at a later date. At this point, they have two choices. The first is easy; push the hurtful memories back down and put them on a shelf. The next takes courage; deal with them. Your wife is trying to do this. My hat is off to her. It takes "guts" to bare your soul to another.

When hormone levels decline, it causes many symptoms. If you have not had a chance to look at the meno-symptom check list, do so. I bet that you will be able to pin-point many things that are happening to her.

I went through a few years of he!!, having no clue that my hormones were in decline. I was so brain foggy that I could not read, my short term memory was shot, I was felt depressed (but knew that I was not, ) and etc. & etc. I had at least four migraines a month that lasted at least two days each. That meant that I was in bed in a dark room for at least 1/3 of the month. I was a mess! My family suffered, too. I lived on Auto-pilot for a while. I acted the right way, so no one noticed the difference, but inside, I felt nothing. It was a horrible place. I plastered a fake smile on my face and forced myself to function. I said all of the "right" things, but without feeling them.


Up until that time, I was a power-house of energy, a social butterfly, had 1000's of hobbies, & etc. My life was good.
When the meno started hitting, I became a shell of a person. I was fortunate to find a great doctor who knew about bio-identical hormone replacement. Many women suffer through menopause, but I decided to give the bios a try. This was a hard decision for me. I have always been a health nut and have taken few meds in my life, so this was a major decision.

It was the best decision that I have made. I am functioning at 100%+ now. No one seems to want to try to keep up with me. LOL! I feel great.


I am going to PM you and send you to my doctor's site. He wrote a great book on hormones & meno. I am not posting this site because his book is for sale. I am not suggesting that you buy it, but he has posted a few chapters on line. It helped me to understand a lot, as it will help you, too. Perhaps you might get your wife to read it or maybe you could just leave that site up. He also does hormone replacement for men. (your excuse for being there...)



My advice at this point...(It's cheap. LOL! Use what you can, throw away the rest...)


...Is to hang on for the roller coaster ride!


LOL! If you go to her counselor, perhaps you could suggest hormone testing.

When a women's Estrogen, Progesterone, and Testosterone (Yes, guys we need Testosterone, too...not much, but some)
declines, it causes many odd symptoms.



For me, hormone replacement was a 24 hour cure. I have not had a migraine since starting bios. Once again, I can read, and when I go into the kitchen to find something, I actually remember what it was.



...and just another "Shebee" quesiton... ( LOL! )

Is it possible that she is having a "computer" affair? If she is emotionally attaching herself to someone else, then this could be a cause of emotionally detaching herself from you. ????

Also, romantic novels can do this to woman. ????

I really try to stay off of the men's site; however, occasionally I find myself straying here.
I think you guys already have enough problems with women, and don't need our advice. LOL!


Let us know if any of this has helped,

Shebee


Where is LadyBugs? She always has sound suggestions and often picks up what I miss...


The guys here are great! They seem to keep us in line with a male perspective, which is always needed. LOL!

Your mail box is not enabled, yet; I will try resending it in a day or two.

I am on the run again...
Shebee

Good advice shebee

Derealization for me is this. I am walking underwater. try to communicate with people who are NOT underwater while you are. THIS is my feeling I get. I have realized when I am in the "form" that I am not approachable nor can I approach. It's two different worlds and until I can climb back out of the pool I am stuck. I have learned to "go with the flow" and just relax and focus on me during these times. They used to scare me. Now I know it's simply my autopilot light kicking on and telling me it's time to shut down for awhilel.

I think the best you can hope for is that YOU recognize this. She will probably not let you "in" Maybe through the counselor the attacks can stop or you can figure out what you can do to minimize the attacks but you can not FIX this by yourself or together(especially not together). Understand that your wife feels like crap and probably is more confused about what is going on with her body than you are. Normally you would want to giver her a hug and tell her that you loved her but that will be the exact opposite of what you should do.

Try to focus on keeping yourself healthy, and do things that make you happy(that do not include your wife).

I am sure that there are better explanations on this forum of what to do and what is happening but thats the best I can do with my writing ability.

Hello MIkesixdee,
I am sorry to hear what you and your wife have been going thru. Has she had a complete physical? Has she been checked for dementia or alzhemers? Meno has caused me to say and do things that I normally would not have. Lots of mistrust and anger issues. I have been delivered from it tho, thank God. I do hope that things get better for your family. Take care.

Sheebe your whole post is wonderful. Thank you for that informative description.

You should come back and post more often we need the insight of women. Like you said too much testosterone might not be so good.

Definitely agree! After being here for a while, I start feeling like a veteran and then you, ladybugs, or one of the other lovely ladies comes along and brings new thoughts on this part of life to allow us to grow even more. THANK YOU SOOOOOOO MUCH!!! It is hard not hearing from my wife what is going on in her mind so to hear your insight is definitely appreciated to keep us grounded and supportive throughout!

You so very welcome. I find myself being careful about what I say to the guys. I feel compelled to say things sometimes that I think are true and need to be brought out into the light for, shall we say "comptemplation" on the mens behalf but I don't want to offend anyone. If you REALLY want honesty, then honesty you'll get but it can be VERY honest sometimes!

Shebee,
Thanks again for your thoughts and advice.

To answer your questions:
I really don't think she has been involved in any computer affairs or is lost in any romance novels. Neither of us read much. We do use our computers so that could be possible, but again I really doubt it.

Now some questions for you:
You mentioned Depersonalization and Derealization. My reading says that these are not the same thing. Are you suggesting both of them? And how do they apply to my situation? How do they lead to a woman feeling angry towards her husband, accusing him of cheating, or wanting to leave?

And does anyone have references of menopause causing severe anxiety, paranoia, and possibly dementia?

Some additional facts:
Nearly all of this anger is directed at me. Nobody else would notice any differences UNLESS she complained about me. I don't know who she has talked with about us.

I also appreciate the suggestions to get physicals, tests, etc. How do you get someone to do this when they think you are trying to trick them? She is convinced that I am not helping her and in fact I am trying to "trap" her with a diagnosis that would cause me to leave her (even though I promise that is not my intention).

Thanks again to all.

Thanks GoalieGuy. You are the 1st person I have heard of that has experienced many of the same issues as me. I like your references to baggage as my research on psychosis, etc. declare that these are typically lifelong struggles. But if you had buried baggage and then menopause triggered a release of that baggage, then I've got an even closer explanation for what is going on.

My wife's younger sister has been very helpful to me through this past year. She is being treated for what amounts to abandonment issues by her mother. She is convinced that my wife has the same issues. Their mother never left them physically, but would check out mentally. She has now been diagnosed bi-polar and most likely has been bi-polar for decades. The differences between them though point to the fact that my wife's sister is the youngest and would have suffered most from abandonment. When my wife was asked about this abandonment by our counselor, she said that she filled the gaps with other relatives (grandmother and aunt). Her younger sister did not fill these gaps. So this could be baggage (her mother) that is coming out with the menopause. Unfortunately, her sister is now on the "not trusted" list (list being 2 people now).

Also, I am sure that I compounded things between us because I admit that I could have been more supportive than I was for the 1st two years. My limited support would have supported her fears of abandonment. It took a break down by her for me to snap to attention and support her 100%.

If you know of others similar to us, please direct me to their posts.

My wife is in denial about Peri even though the symptoms keep getting worse. My wife also directs a lot of anger at me, but has learned to control it better over the past few months. The one thing she did that alleviated some of the anger was yoga. I've also heard that acupuncture helps, but we have no personal experience. Even if she does go to a doctor, the tests commonly come out inconclusive whic can give your wife more resolve that your trying to get her. Even if the test do show hormonal issues, is your wife going to increase her risk of getting cancer by taking Hormone Replacement. There are some over the counter remedies to try. You can read through these blogs to find the different ones including soy bars. My wife has exhibited some paranoia, more so in teh past. her latest thing is to be copying all our financial reports from online sources. She thinks I have siphoning money from our accounts. This Peri stuff has taken me to the edge as you may have seen from my other posts.

BINGO Beingpatient!! Some questions for you: How does a woman know she has "peri"? From what I read, peri is a transition to menopause. Basically, one heck of a final PMS? So how is that diagnosed? Is it a catch all for women of a current age? My wife has had her hormone levels tested and she said nothing was wrong, giving her more ammo that I am definitely the problem.

I would agree that my experiences seem to be more severe coupled with the fact that I probably exacerbated the situation by being hurt by her accusations, fighting back, and telling her to "get some help". I didn't know anything about this stuff, I just knew that something smacked me straight in the face and I didn't handle it very well. Now 3 years into it, I'm afraid that we've done a lot of damage that we'll never recover from unless she recognizes the situation.

Does anyone think that will happen (her recognizing this)? Anyone else out here in our situation?

Thanks Beingpatient!!

Hi there, again, MikeSixDee,

So far you have ruled out many things. I now think that her problems are menopause related. They are very typical.


Depersonalization and Derealization often go hand in hand. There are a few ladies on this board that recently came on that are having problems with this. When meno started hitting, their lives started falling apart. Both were also diagnosed with lyme disease. Years ago, I had lyme disease, too. The symptoms of lyme and meno are somewhat similar. Lyme, left untreated can cause many problems. Neuro, joint problems, and etc. It mimics 100's of other diseases. I got lyme a a child and when I was older it started causing problems. I do not have it now, and fortunately, I was not going through menopause at the same time. Lyme is the most undiagnosed disease out there. This is why I mentioned testing.

...and if her hormones are going crazy, she will be going "crazy," too.

DollieDee and cross18 come to mind. Both are exceptional women who have suffered greatly. I feel very honored to know them. DollieDee had everything going for her. She found her dream guy and then her world fell apart. My heart goes out to both of them. Pull up some of their post and start reading. These will help you understand much more than I could begin to express.



You mentioned that she is directing her angry toward you, not others. When she does this, change your reactions. Refuse to be baited into a heated discussion. If she can control her emotions towards others, she can control them toward you.

As for her accusing you of affairs and etc., normally I would question her behavior, but after ruling out the most common things, I believe that she is feeling very insecure. By saying these things (and seeing your denial,) she finds some kind of comfort. She is checking....waiting for your reaction. Let her know that she is wrong. Tell her how much you love her. Refuse to argue about this. REFUSE to be her verbal punching bag.


Ask her if she is the one that is thinking about leaving. Turn it around a bit...just to see her response.
Make her declare her love and faithfulness to you. Tell her that YOU need to hear this. Of course, if she says she does not know how she feels about your or your relationship, let her know that you are getting tired of her non-commitment toward your marriage, and if she wants to call it quits, she needs to let you know. Leave it at that.

I think that you will have to experiment with your words and actions to see exactly what helps, and what does not.

She seems very fragile at this point, so don't push too hard.

...and she might be thinking about leaving. I will tell you a story now...not one that I am not very proud to tell, but nevertheless, I will tell it to you anyway. When I was very young, I had a boyfriend who was a wonderful guy.

I liked him a lot, but I knew that I would never marry him. I wanted out of this relationship, but I did not have the guts to tell him this. So what did I do? Did I just tell him how I felt? No, I did not.

I am ashamed to admit it, but I became aloof, and treated him badly. He finally came to me and told me that he wanted out. This poor guy was put through hell because of what I did. Since that time, I have never did that to anyone again. I achieved my desired result, but I paid dearly for doing this. (It is a possibility that she does want out. If that is the case, you have a great deal of leverage to win her heart back.)



How to get someone who is "fine" to see a doctor? That is a million dollar question. You could tell her that you are thinking about having a complete check-up. The next day, casually ask her if she would like to get one, too?????

Do you have a mutual friend that could help you. If she has been talking with others, more than likely, they know that she is in a bad place and would be willing to help you. I would not give them any information, which could go back to her. Do not confide in them, but only ask for their help. (Is this even an option?)

You mentioned a counselor. Could you call him/her and ask for his/her to get her hormones tested? At this point, this might be the only person that she can trust. Are you seeing the counselor, too, even though it might not be necessary. If not, I would do this for her sake. If you get a really good one, he/she will help you by giving you coping skills. This will help keep you sane. LOL!

All of her behaviors, including dredging up past hurts can be brought on by meno. Some counselors "milk" their clients. I had a girlfriend who went to a counselor. She found that she hated her mother and spent many months working through this problem. Why she always thought she loved her mother....until counseling. Finally she realized that she never hated her mother at all. She got a new counselor and all went very well.

Shebee

Women can have all the symptoms and still not admit its Peri. There are a lot of emotions around this subject including thoughts of getting old, losing your beauty and relavancei n life. This can probably be better answered by one of the ladies. I understand it can happen from the mid 30's to the 50's and can last for many years. The average age for menopause is 51. I mentioned Peri to my wife several months ago and she got really mad. I have been in this for about a year and now recognized a personality change about 18 months ago. Around Christmas, the sh** hit the fan. Our marrriage is severely strained. Up until a few months ago, she controlled the situation and told me everything I've done wrong and how we should be divorced or separated. I decided to take control of the situation and stand back and not get into the sensitive topics. What reallly floored her was when she brought up one of the hot topics and I said i don't want to talk about it now. This reversed our roles because she normally said that. We call it emotional detachment on this board. Do a search and you'll find a lot of info within Power-Surge. All I can say is that I have never made a point to her in our discussions in her state of mind and I've given up trying to reason with her. I focus on making my kids lives normal. There have been some rough days, but there are fewer now. I don't know if we're going to stay married and at this point I won't feel bad if we don't. She has made a living hell for me and our relationship will never be the same. There's more to it than i've already divulged and I don't want to in case I get her to read this site.

One suggestion, see if your wife will read this forum, especially the comments from the other women. they're extremely helpful and have an understanding of what your wife is going through. Good Luck

Some really great posts. She bee you are so flippin' on top of it, I gotta say. Your advice is so well thought out and sound. Ladybugs too. I couldn't offer up anything better. There are such wise women on this board. You guys aren't slouches either, lol. It's true all the good ones ARE taken, I hope your wives realize that sooner rather than later... (I myself have a good one and I ain't letting him get away, lol) Mich

Shebee

I am ashamed to admit it, but I became aloof, and treated him badly. He finally came to me and told me that he wanted out. This poor guy was put through hell because of what I did. Since that time, I have never did that to anyone again. I achieved my desired result, but I paid dearly for doing this. (It is a possibility that she does want out. If that is the case, you have a great deal of leverage to win her heart back.)


I'm not catching how the leverage is with the husband in this case? Sorry-I'm sometimes a little dense.

Yes, this statement is a little confusing...

I read in a book recently that the greatest leverage does come at the point when the person realizes their actions... i.e they finally realize the hell they have put you through. So there is tough love to be applied when your wife sees clearly and comes to the realization that they have behaved badly towards you... as they come to the realization that they may lose you as a consequence of their actions...

However... if your wife truly wants out... I don't see either what the leverage would be... unless one attempts a "guilt trip"... but how long would that relationship last? I don't see how it would have a foundation to build on. If the flame is completely extinguished, it would be quite a feat to re-light.

I did once hear from a very patient therapist (no relation) that she has brought couples back from some precarious places. All she needed was a ray of hope on both parts that they wanted the relationship to work.

The problem with most of the relationships of the men on this board(or at least my relationship) is that the wives are not comitting to making the relationship work!

But they're also still hanging on for one reason or another. I suspect that if they can't get what they're looking for, they still have the sure thing in their mind.

I don't feel it works that way. We are not looking for something better. We are trying to find what is suddenly lost. We becomes women who can't love even ourselves for awhile. How do you expect us to find the strength to love you, much less anybody else? I still feel strongly that what we go through really has nothing to do with our men. It is OUR journey. It is a hard journey. It is a painful journey that rocks us to the very core and forces us to change whether we like it or not. Our men and children suffer the aftershocks but we become so embroiled in this, sometimes we simply can't find our way back to you. It's not that we don't love you (in my case anyway with my husband, everybody is different of course, I'm not stupid!) we're just lost. I thank GOD that my man did not abandon me. He actually saved me from myself. I could not imagine going through this alone!

Sorry-I shouldn't have said being used as a last resort, but sometimes it feels that way. My wife wants me around as long as I'm not a burden to her. She relates that she's looking for something and she not sure it's me. I do a lot of the work around the house and try to make her life easier. Over the last several months, I try not to complicate her life with my needs, but as GoalieGuy pointed out, there are times when she may be crossing the line and I am rather sensitive to the way she treats the kids. In those instances, I have to intercede. Early on, she did go after the kids verbally, but has since developed a good relationship with them. My problem is as others have mentioned on this site, she does not want to accept that she is going through Perimenopause. Accepting this would give her a wealth of information of what she is going through. I know that each Peri experience is unique, but there does seem to be a number of commonalities. As I have said in other posts, I pressed this issue a number of months ago and learned a valuable lesson.

ok lets look at it this way. ASSUME your wife will NEVER admit to menopause. Now what? You change tactics. Your game plan needs to be different. YOU know she's in peri but she won't accept it. So...how do you get through this if she never admits it. The "wealth" of information would help her incredibly but a lot of women DO go through this without it. Question is...how do you make it work?

Ladybugsforu
I think what you have written is very helpful for us men to understand what is going on with our wives, relationships. Your husband is lucky that you are communicating with him and I am sure that is why he has not abandoned you. My wife and myself are very much alone in this journey. I would love to be there for her, to help her, but she will not admit to what is going on. She doesn't even know that she is on this journey. She must know that it is painful but It is easier for her to blame me than to stop and ask for directions.

Anyway thanks for the insight.

,


I just go through this on a daily basis. I understand she is in a lot of emotional pain and I try not to add to it. The information I use has mostly been around detachment which is a simple concept. The emotional side of detaching is one of the hardest things I have ever attempted. "How do I make it work" without her admitting to Peri...thats the question a lot of men are asking on this board.

Guys,

Believe me, if a women is treating their spouse badly, they know it. What is that saying? Even a child is know by his doings...LOL! You are right, Guilt trips never work for long.

Let me explain...

I thought this part might be somewhat confusing, but I tossed it in anyway. The guy that I broke up with might have had a chance of keeping me if he had reacted differently to me. Instead of pulling back, he was like a clingy piece of saran wrap. The more I treated him badly, the more he clung to me. Since I was so young, I did not understand why I wanted to get away from him, only that I needed to get out of this relationship. I felt smothered!



Perhaps you wife is feeling smothered, too?

If you wife truly wants out, then there is not much that you can do; however, if she is sitting on the fence post, you do have leverage. Because you have had many good years together, children, family, & etc. in common, she is already leaning toward toward you. A great husband is hard to throw away. I am suggesting that you that you can pull her back by letting her loose. Completely.

(Scary isn't it? It is the exact opposite of what every wants to do. You mate is cool and so you run to them. They keep running because they are secure.

...and you run harder after them letting them know that you will always be there.

By stopping, your mate is forced to look behind to see what is wrong. No longer do they have total security. This is where a choice is made by them. They will either keep on going or turn around and come back.)

My husband used this on me. It was very effective. I did not know if I wanted to marry him or not. It came to a point that he let me know that I had three months to make up my mind. The shock was so great that I sat down that night and searched my heart. I was crazy about him! I loved him more than life itself. I called him the next day and told him that my heart was his. Had he clung to me in anyway, I would have be gone. Instead, he released me. It was at that point that I was free to search my heart to see if I wanted to be with him or not.


I think that you can change the situation is by changing how you react and respond. What ever you have done before, stop. Try something else. Do not cling at all.

Let her know that if she is going to leave, then she should tell you. Be supportive and offer to help her move or whatever.

If she is not totally secure that you are going to hang on forever, it will usually precipitate a crisis.

This is not a bad thing. Done at the right time, it will cause her to re-evaluate her situation.
At that point, she will go one way or another.

The timing needs to be right and this should not be done out of anger, but out of love. I can't guarantee that this will work, but it is worth a try.???? At this point, I think you guys are trying to ride out the storm, knowing that storms don't last forever, eh?


I know that you are detaching, which is not a bad coping technique. It is necessary in order to preserve you heart and sanity; however, I do not like detachment. I am sure it is different for a man, but as a women, detachment is like killing out your love, one little piece at a time. ...and in the end, there is nothing left. Men's and women's thought process is very different. I bet men see it as survival! LOL!



I might add that even if a women's hormones test out ok, it does not mean that she wouldn't benefit by supplementing hormones. Doctors have no idea what hormone levels a women had when she was younger. The test are only a guide-line, but doctors should treat for the symptoms.

Most of my test were in the normal (low) range, except my testosterone, which was very low. With bio-hormones, I regained my zest for life. If the test are normal, if it were me, I would push for a trial to see if it helps. If it does not, then there has been nothing lost. For the women who will not consider hormones, I have no clue as to how to advise them. If a great diet, vitamins, and a healthy life-style worked, I would have felt great. I did not.


I hope this clarifies my statement. (Men are so analytical! LOL!)

Shebee

I hit the send button....I meant to incorporate this into my post...

I meant to add that you might be able to use this "technique" to help your spouse to at least consider that she might be going through menopause. This will take some though on your part.

If she stops long enough and comes to you, the line of communication will be open.




I had almost all of the meno symptoms. Although many of my problems were magnified, my real problem was declining hormones. With my hormones added back, I went from a mess to normal.


Shebee

[quote name='Shebee' date='Oct 26 2009, 04:27 PM' post='315819']
I hit the send button....I meant to incorporate this into my post...

I meant to add that you might be able to use this "technique" to help your spouse to at least consider that she might be going through menopause. This will take some though on your part.

If she stops long enough and comes to you, the line of communication will be open.




I had almost all of the meno symptoms. Although many of my problems were magnified, my real problem was declining hormones. With my hormones added back, I went from a mess to normal.


Shebee
Thanks for the clarification. Isn't detachment a form of letting go? My definition of detachment is not to be clingy and reveal your emotions. I'm still saying I'm here for you if needed, but I'm not wearing my emotions on my sleave.


Sorry for asking for clarification Shebee, but isn't letting go a form of detachment

Shebee
Thanks for the clarification. Isn't detachment a form of letting go? My definition of detachment is not to be clingy and reveal your emotions. I'm still saying I'm here for you if needed, but I'm not wearing my emotions on my sleave.


Sorry for asking for clarification Shebee, but isn't letting go a form of detachment
[/quote]


LOL! From what I have read from the guys on this board, your definition is very different than mine. You talk about a "healthy" type of detachment. I was only pointing out that my idea of detachment is a bit overboard. Being an emotional creature, I see detachment as a means to an end. LOL!

All in all, in the circumstances that you find yourself in, I think that you are all doing very good job of handling your situation. It must be very frustrating walking on a tight rope...balancing.

Shebee

Detachment is a confusing concept at times... I told my wife about it, and that I was detaching. When on occasion I expressed words of love, she queried about what I was doing and wasn't I detaching? I told her that detaching does not mean not loving someone anymore. You can still care about someone, just don't care for them or try to fix people. Maybe viewing detachment more as acceptance and understanding that the only control you have is over yourself. You have no control over others feelings and thoughts. Also detachment to me means that I cannot rely on another to find my own personal happiness. I am responsible for my feelings, and need to take control of my own life... and not cling to another person. As we mature, I think this just allows us to recognize that love is an incredible thing if you recognize and respect the individuality of each person within the couple and need for time and space to flourish as an individual, yet be able to share moments of happiness together. Make sense?

Is it a means to an end? I suppose it can be if you view detachment as a numbing of all feelings towards your spouse, which inevitably brings you down the road to separation if both feel the same way.

On why our wives are still around? Probably different reasons... I can't say my wife is abusing me... She is more in the "detached" mode, in the sense that she is numb... Partly menopause I expect, partly because she suppressed feelings on unhappiness too long, and had a void in her heart while I thought I was doing the right thing being a good provider. That void got filled by someone else. I can only guess why she is still around... I would hazard a guess that partly she is still with me because of her core values and commitment she made. Partly as well because she will be judged by so many people... We are well known by family and friends as having a happy marriage... obviously not as well known but the facade is there... It would be a major letdown for many to see us split up I expect... the kids, her family, my family, people at church, everywhere we do volunteer work, etc. She knows she is the one who is caught in the middle of finding the love she wanted, and her life as it is now. The only question is whether she is so far gone now and believes that I am not worth the investment in time... or even if she thinks that she will never find love again with me.

I agree with you TOTALLY on the absolute necessity to stay away and let her be... No clinging! I have read this enough now that finally it is ingrained in my mind. Dr Dobson's book provided in better reinforcement on this topic, including the psychology of it much of which is what Shebee describes. Makes total sense and the quicker a husband can get out of the "oh my sweet lord what am I going to do" phase (with all the crying, anguish, anger, and various reactions that only show they are clinging) and resume a life where they take care of themselves while letting her sort it out... (of course quietly supporting without being any bit overbearing or clinging) then the better off you will be.

I must have had too much coffee today because I'm posting a lot today. I was having a conversation with my wife last night and she told me that around the beginning of last year, I was very clingy and to her, it was very repulsive. My response to the dating scene years ago was to be totally cool to women to whom I was interested. I never thought I would carry this process into marriage to a woman I have shared some of my deepest thoughts and feelings.

Beingpatient,

LOL! I've had fun posting, too. Although I have been on the run most of the day, when I did take a break, I found myself drawn to the office. I hate sitting still! Even when I watch a movie, I am doing something else at the same time, and always thinking about something else. If I read, I usually have three books going at the same time, switching them at random. This is relaxation to me. LOL! I envy my hubby who can sit down and be totally involved in a movie. He drinks in every detail.



It does seem ridiculous that we have to play the "dating game" over and over, especially with our spouses. Somewhere along the lines of working, raising kids, and etc. we put this aside. I have read where the best marriages have a hot and cold mix as opposed to having a marriage on an even keel. If we were to start dating again, the excitement would be back in full force. We would find out what our date liked, and quickly educate ourselves in order to at least hold a decent conversation.

You would become Mr. Cool again in a heartbeat! When my marriage starts to fall into a predictable pattern, I shake it up a bit. (Ok, a lot!) LOL! I become somewhat elusive and mysterious. This is what I strive to keep alive in our marriage.


GoalieGuy,

Thank you so much for your definition. I like it much better than mine. A healthy detachment is a game that one must play at all stages of marriage, depending on the circumstances. Your explanation makes perfect sense to me. You must have given it a lot of thought.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am still working on the Million Dollar Question....

How to get your wife to recognize that she is in peri-menopause and how to motivate her to do something about it before she wreaks everyone's life.

I think think that I am getting close to the answer! Complex problems can often be solved with the simple answers.

You know...the The Gordian Knot approach! LOL!


Shebee

Hope the coffee is good!

I work with computers all the time so I'm always online somewhere it seems. That's my excuse to posting so much!

Yup, this is surprising isn't it? You would think this kind of "head game" is a thing of the past during the pursuit of one's true love. I never liked the words "head games" and it sounds so adolescent... but practically, several aspects are just human nature however imperfect it seems, and still applicable whether you are twenty or fifty. I would like to think though that what changes though is your level of honesty and integrity with yourself and others.

Anyways, I'd like to share with you a few quotes from the book I'm reading (with some minor edits)... I tried to find a few that talk about feeling trapped and effects of clinging as well as the effect of finally giving the other freedom and the environment it creates... I hope this helps put all into perspective. It does for me...

------

How sad it is that this trapped partner who is fighting an impulse to run is rapidly sinking deeper and deeper into a form of marital quicksand. Why? Because the more he struggles to gain his freedom (or even secure a little breathing room), the more his panic-stricken spouse clutches his neck. Even the fluctuating emotions of the rejected party are interpreted as attempts to grab and hold him. For example:

- The response of grief: "Please don't hurt me. Come and meet my needs"
- The response of anger: "Get back in line, stupid! How dare you try to walk out on me!"
- The response of blame: "How could you do this to me and the kids?"
- The response of appeasement: "Name it and you can have it. Just don't leave me."
- The response of servility (the doormat): "No matter what you do, I'll go on smiling 'cause you're mine."

The common denominator between these varied responses is one of entrapment. The each restrict the freedom of the less interested party. For someone in the trapped syndrome, love then becomes an obligation rather than an incredibly wonderful privilege.

----

I'm sure you would not have dreamed of using these coercive methods to convince your husband or wife to marry you during your dating days. You had to lure, attract, charm or encourage him or her. This subtle game of courtship had to take place one delicate step at a time. Can you imagine what would have occurred if you had wept violently and hung on the neck of your lover saying, "I think I'll die if you don't marry me! My entire life amounts to nothing without you. Please, please! Oh please don't turn me down"

----

When the cage door is finally open, the message conveyed in words and in actions that the person is free to leave..

Three distinct consequences can be anticipated when a previously "grabby" lover begins to let go of the cool spouse:

1. The trapped partner no longer feels it necessary to fight off the other, and their relationship improves. It is not that the love affair is rekindled, necessarily, but the strain between the two partners is often eased.

2. As the cool spouse begins to feel free again, the question he has been asking himself changes. After having wondered for weeks or months, "How can I get out of this mess? he now asks, "Do I really want to go?" Just knowing that he can have his way often makes him less anxious to achieve it. Sometimes it turns him around 180 degrees and brings him back home!

3. The third change occurs not in the mind of the cool spouse but in the mind of the vulnerable one. Incredibly, he feels better - somehow more in control of the situation.... the person has begun to respect himself and receive small evidences of respect in return.... little by little, the healing process begins.

------

It's kind of like getting an addict spouse to admit their an addict, it doesn't happen until they want it. You can buy books, you can do everything to make their lives easier, take away as much stress as you can for them, love them, love them and then love them some more. You submerge your feelings, your wants, your needs all in the name of the person you love so dearly in hopes they will realize what they are throwing away. Yet, nothing you do is making a dent or making a difference. You can't understand how come they can't see how much you love them, how many sacrifices you are making. You can't understand how they can be so hateful, so cold and unloving toward you. This person used to be so loving, how can this be the same person you married. If only they would stop and acknowledge their "problem" and seek treatment. If only they opened up, if only they realized how much we love them, if only, if only, then everything would be alright. Spouses of these kind of individuals have a few choices, seek help for themselves, decide on an approach i.e. detachment is a popular one if you are not ready to leave the relationship. This might keep you going for a while in hopes that the other person "get's it" and acknowledges their issue and seeks help or you end up so detached you live your life as just two people sharing a house but little else or you detach yourself right out the door. It depends how much patience and time you have. You can't make it work, if she isn't willing to help make it work. The only person your approach is working for thusfar is....for is her. I'm sorry if that is too blunt, but, it's the truth. I think it is awesome to support a loved one through troubled times, that is what a marriage is. Obviously, you don't bail at the first hint of trouble. But, some of you guys are really getting hit hard by your wives. Letting go is so so so incredibly hard when so much love and time is invested in a relationship. I couldn't presume to tell anyone when enough is enough and it's time to move on. I've said this before and I'll say it again, peri/meno is real, it can be debilitating I am living proof of it. We are all different in our coping mechanisms, I detach a bit, but, I am very cognizant of what my husband does for me and how very lucky I am to have him. His efforts toward me are a gift. I look like a bag lady some days, some days I needed a shower but didn't want to take one, I dwell in my cave (my bedroom) and he will come in a tell me he adores me (knowing I haven't moved in 3 days). I can blame a lot of stuff on this craziness called Peri, but, I'm so confused on your wives and how they are acting toward you guys consistently. You can't ever change someone else, but, you can change yourself. Her journey has become your journey whether you end up at the same destination remains to be seen I suppose. There are no pat answers to your individual situations. There may or may not be a fork in the road for you, only time will tell. Take care, Mich

What a well written post and a great explanation of detachment done in a loving manner. As you also noted at some point detachment can morph into something more permanent if a separation or divorce should occur. Everything else written is spot on. You sound like you are doing all the right things you can do for yourself to make sure you are in an emotionally healthy place. You can only change you and that is what you are focusing on. I hope that the light at the end of your tunnel is in sight. Take care.

Th coffee is good when I find myself going to Starbucks to get away sometmes. I've been doing that a lot lately.

I'm not looking forward to the Holidays this year. The reality of Peri came just before Christmas last year when she started telling me all the things I had done wrong in the past . One noteable event was when she told me I didn't hold her hand. When I held her hand, she pulled it back and said it was too late. Maybe I'll take a vacation with the kids and let have some time to herself.

Yup... I hear ya.

Taking a vacation is a good idea I think. I mentioned in another post that I took the kids away for a weekend not long ago to my parents place. I had two messages on my cell phone barely an hour away down the road, and an email was sent that morning as well. The absence of the family was noted... and I'm sure gave her an opportunity to think about what it would be like if she split... I intend on doing this again at Christmas myself if things don't improve. I'll take the kids skiing or something.