Well I have been racking my brains about what to do. My 26th year wedding anniversary is next week and I don't know what to do. Of course let me add that my wife and I had an OK weekend but on Monday morning I put my arm around her and said I love you and then WW III started. Needless to say we haven't spoken since. I would like to do something nice but somehow I feel it will not be appreciated.

I guess I am hoping for at least some communication but knowing that it is unlikely!

I hope you two are able to enjoy your anniversary. Congrats!

I can relate. Everything appears normal until she has an interpretation that I said something that crossed her line in the sand and I get a pis*** off response. The statement could be benign, but it's how she takes it. Anyway, I'm usually a staigthforward person, but I've learned to keep things to myself. Our relations have slowly been getting better. She is also learning to control her emotions a little better, but I can tell when she has a crazed look on her face. Her cycles are definitely off, but still not admitting it's hormones, just the weather. I'll be damned if I understand that one.

Anyway Happy Anniversary

Ditto. Happy anniversary!

OK, this is the "wrong" approach...at least I think so. I'm out the other side of this and I think I have some info that might help.

First of all your wife is feeling like crap and more than likely your arm around her and saying I love you made her think you wanted sex. OK, that's the bottom line. Women think men want sex and everything we do is designed to get sex. This time of their life they don't want sex and they don't really want us.

Now what?

I don't know. But I have some suggestions. First realize that the "game" has changed. She might not like the peck on the neck, she may feel icky and it makes her skin crawl. That same sensation that used to make her all woozy and lovey dovey, now makes her feel sick to her stomach. Why? I don't know, but it does. So, figure out what works.

So instead of bringing flowers home, why not bring flowers home in a vase and placed carefully where she can see them. Be sure the water doesnt' ruin something, be sure it's not in the way of cooking dinner, be sure it's out of the way but she will see it. Don't mention it. EVER. I promise you eventually she wil mention it or at least recognize them. You'll notice they are in the middle of the dining room table, or on her desk, or in the compost. But you'll know she saw them. Let it go.

So, how to celebrate your anniversary. Leave work early. Come home, wash the dishes, clean things up. Move your crap from the spot that she always sees it and then leave the house and go away. Come home at the normal time and do nothing, say nothing, watch TV as usual, just let it go. I promise you, she'll notice. She'll also notice you aren't being a pain in the butt. If she reacts, react lightly, be gentle and mildly happy about it. Don't over-joyed at her recognition of your act. Just take the hug, the kiss, the offer for sex and relax with it. This is a new world.

If nothing happens, just calmly accept it and see what happens later that week or month. This is a tough time and one you won't fix, trust me, no fixing here...

we menopausal women can sure be bitches but we also have hearts....if you don't do anything for an anniversary,you're gonna have hell to pay.....

Hi Big Brother-

What do you think about the idea of asking her what she wants to do? I don't know maybe that's a bad idea and it'll be used against you, but considering that whatever you come up with on your own might be used against you...

Anyhow, I love you.
xoxo
Your little sister

Needleseye, Welcome to Powersurge
I already asked her and she said woohee!

I think RegGuy is right that putting my arm around her was the wrong approach. As far as doing those other things like cleaning and washing the dishes, clothes etc I am already doing that so that is going to stay unnoticed. I am back in my detachment mode. And I understand there is no fixing it.

And I agree with moonlight that "if you don't do anything for an anniversary,you're gonna have hell to pay...."

So there lies the big catch.

Anyway thanks for the well wishes and the ideas.

well it seems like you,ve already went the
kill her with kindness route without progress, i would do nothing- dont even acknowledge it,
women know this drives you to thinking more then any thing, it mayby hard to do, but id stop all affection and praise... trust me , it might take
awhile but she,ll come around.....

First off RegGuy .. are you sure your not a RegGirl ?? some pretty insiteful stuff there,, but as a female I do disagree about ignoring the anniversary ,, thats just asking for trouble,, heres the thing ,, for your anniversary ,, really think about your wife .. I mean REALLY THINK ABOUT HER,, in all the years together what does she really have a passion for ? what has she said "I would like to ... ?" learn how to ? I would like to have?? what do you know about her really,, see,, men think we want jewelry or perfume or flowers or all that crap that the commercials tell you we want ,, the most touching gift my husband ever gave me were the ones he really had to MAKE AN EFFORT to get or find,, like the time I was into rock climbing and he went and bought me some books and gear,, or the time we were out somewhere and he noticed I took an extra long time looking at a coat just by observing me and then he bought it ,, its what you notice about us and then persue that makes us melt, not the flowers jewelry and perfume.

on another note .. we put a swimming pool into our backyard a year ago .. my husband must have noticed that after about 20 minutes of being in the pool and excercising ,, I am very relaxed .. so then he joins me and we have some of the best conversations we've had in years.. so ask yourself this ,, when is your wife the most relaxed ? after a work out ? after a spa visit ? after dinner ? then start some conversation when you know she is calmer .. otherwise all we feel is stressed out and panicky ,, sorry ,, just my 2 cents .. good luck

Nope, a guy. LOL.

I don't think I was suggesting ignoring, it, rather playing it low-key. Perhaps I didn't get that across. It was a bit late at night when I wrote that. I don't think my point got across. I thought the flowers were a nice touch.

As far as already doing the dishes, etc. I think us guys tend to want credit for this stuff. Well admit it, Hey look I just cleaned up the kitchen! Come take a look. It's how we get our energy. Nothing wrong with it, but it does bug the heck out of our wife. So the key is to do these things and let them be really low-key. So just check yourself as you do things. Would this bother me if I had too much coffee and was anxious about a job related thing and had a headache? If yes, don't do it. Just a good check to determine how to remain in your wife's good graces. Also, if you tend to persue things, back off and give her room. Ironically she's probably not mad at you but will be if you keep at her.

I am raising 2 sons so give the constant praise when they accomplish good things. . I think this is where the need for praise when the male of the species does something good .. they always got praise from their moms (or at least I hope they did) ,, and so expect it from the wife (correct me if im wrong) where as women we may not have gotten all that praise from our dads (the opposite sex parent is pivitol in this) because they were working so dont necissairly expect praise for the things we do ,, so yes we do find it a little needy and annoying and you are very observant in noticing this .. I would say your wife has a real gem in you as you seem to be much more in tune than most ! I too like the flower idea !!

Well, I rarely got praise from my mom, got it from my dad if anything. I think it's an energy thing. We all get our energy boost from something, most men get it from being appreciated. An ancient survival thing that's still there in the pleasure centers of the brain. One for women is from colorful things, fruits, flowers (bringers of fruits). Thus the ancient centers of our brains get tickled by these things. Think of the men bringing home a big animal from the hunt. Hungry wives and children all happy. The men's pleasure centers get tickled by that praise. They get energized to hunt again. Many of the pleasure centers for women are self served as they were the gatherers. Men from the praise of others as they provided from the hunt.

Lots of good info like it in: Why Men Never Remember and Women Never Forget by Marianne J. Legato M.D. FACP and Laura Tucker.

We can get past our base things, but to do so takes energy and focus. Most of us just enjoy the energy and go on.

Anyway, I learned a lot here during the worst of the struggle. Now we are well into the year after menopause proper and things have settled quite a bit. No shouting and horrible arguments out of nothing. I'm not even sure she realizes how peaceful life has gotten. So, as such I really feel a debt to this community and want to try and add as much as I can from a man's perspective. One that's remained married even when threatened with divorce and separation many a time during the five prior years. There is, truly, a light at the end of the tunnel. Although at times it gets difficult as stepping on toes seems to go with the territory, I'll try to add as much as I can from time-to-time.

I think also the key is that men need to look at their wife and realize it's not their fault (either one of them) and there is nothing the man can do but stand there and look pretty stay out of the way and by all means don't argue.

Lastly, my wife didn't want to celebrate our anniversary several times during this period of time. Then when it came and I asked she said I should have made plans earlier with her. She once went out with her friends on our anniversary. So it's not always possible to make nice around that time.

this is true .. I often feel like the thing I would love the most is to find a cool dark cave with a nice soft bed and crawl in it till all this passes and I feel good enough to emerge.. like a hibernating bear. Im just starting to feel a little better at times and feel a little nicer toward my husband. Something about the brain chemistry is altered throughout this time (you can read about the GABA disruption as well as seratonin) and it makes us on constant edge. the last couple months without a cycle I have been much calmer ,, until monday the the whole mess started over again.. well Im going to back out now .. since this started as a mens conversation and wish you all all the best ,, just give your ladies a LOT of space ,, good luck !

regular guy isn't a regular guy; he's a "been there, done that" kind of a regular guy.


p.s.
RegGuy, how are your birdhouses coming along?


(((angel)))

Thanks Angel. No more bird houses, that was waaaaaay too much work to do more. But it was fun.

How's life in your neck-o-the-woods?

You have obviously read this... Men-o-pause Cave

I still refer to it once and a while to remind myself what my wife is going through and what she is feeling... I'm sure all the men who post here find, much like myself, that it is very difficult though to stay on the outside and wait patiently for your spouse to emerge from the cave. This reminder puts things into perspective though.

Well I want to thank everyone for their input on this topic.

I have decided to go with a card and a gift certificate to her favorite nail salon.
I will see how this flies.
Maybe we can even go out to dinner but I am not counting on that.

Hope all goes well... I know your heart is in the right place, and the most difficult thing right now is finding the right balance of showing you care without giving the impression of smothering.

We "celebrated" 20 years in July. Knowing now what was really happening, the $120 spent at the restaurant would have been much more appreciated if spent on a card and a gift certificate... For what it's worth, if you are in the same boat sounds like a good idea.

Just remember that your love for her is true, despite what reaction she may have, you KNOW that your intentions are gold and you know how you feel. Even if you miss the moving target (as you never really know what state of mind she will be in) you can take heart that you took the time to remember, to think about what you could do to bring her happiness on this important milestone, and did what you thought was best.

Congrats again on your anniversary and all the best!

Today is my anniversary. Been married 26 years. Executed the plan above and my wife said thank you when she got the card. Then she calmly told me that she had been to a lawyer and wanted a divorce/separation.
I calmly told her that I didn't want to discuss it today, and she got up and is going to work.

What a day.
Arghhhh!

Wow, not quite what you were hoping for, I am so so sorry. I have to re read all your posts, but, in lieu of that, what are her reasons for wanting this? My heart goes out to you. Please take care. Mich

I've heard the D word several times over the past year. In some cases it does happen, but in many Peri cases, it seems to be an effort to escape and start over. I wouldn't dwell on it unless she actually files papers. I was mentioning in a post yesterday that the holidays including Haloween are the toughest because these are where a lot of memories are based. You remember the past holidays, birthdays and anniversaries and the great times you had and are now missing. Do something for yourself and just remember the old adage this too shall pass. My wife had a milestone birthday and I was in the same predicament as you as to what to give. i just gave her a card, plant and we all went out to dinner, our tradition. I put the kids names and mine on a single card and that took any pressure off her.

Anyway Happy Anniversary

I read wifeisdepressed's post earlier and my jaw dropped. I am so sorry and hope that this doesn't actually happen, or at the very least things work out for the best. I haven't heard the words... yet... but only have heard that my wife is wondering if "I am worth the investment". Needless to say after empathizing with wifeisdepressed and others on this board, I find this disheartening and wonder if and when the gauntlet will drop as well on our relationship.

Although all the mental preparedness in the past several months would help, I still don't know how I would react if this ever happened. I suppose my first reaction would be the same... "Let's just let it sink in and we'll talk about it later". The sad thing though is when one person feels that a relationship has gone so far off the rails that reconciliation is not possible. I have always believed, much like it sounds like many do, that I am not that far away from my spouse, yet somehow she does not see it that way. It's as though the distance seems to be just too much to handle to extent that separation seems to be considered less painful then the energy needed to relight the fire.

Wifeisdepressed, I hope you take care of yourself... Regardless of the outcome... In a sense, if this is followed through, you may find relief in closure altogether as opposed to having this drag on further.

WOW! That was one he!! of anniversary present to you, eh? I am sorry.

Oh, I am so sorry!!! Clearly I don't know your wife (or you for that matter, only what you've shared with us) but this seems unnecessarily cruel. She couldn't have told you this at on a different day? Yesterday, tomorrow .... next week? Anything but on your actual anniversary. This obviously hurt you deeply and one has to wonder how do you recover from this sort of thing? I hope she comes to her senses and I dearly hope you can get past this but know that we are all here for you if this D comes to pass. Of course we only know you from your posts but you seem like too good a man to let go like this.
((((((((((((((((wifeisdepressed)))))))))))))))))
jan

Thank you everyone who has posted your support.

Mich - to answer your question, the reason that my wife says is all for financial reasons. I have supported the family for most of our years of marriage (I my own my own business) One of my children just graduated college and the other one is going for his masters degree. The past few years my 80 year old family business has fallen on hard times. My wife is a special education teacher for nursery school children
and has been with her school for 6 years. She has helped to pay for our childrens education and the past year or so has contributed to most of our house hold expenses. She has built up a dislike for my business over the years and now feels that I should walk away from it and get a high paying job somewhere else.
Basically she has a neat package all figured out that blames me for anything that is going wrong. She does not take pills (can't swallow them). And she will not admit that she is in peri/meno although she is experiencing many symptoms. Some other background is that she did experience postpartum depression after our first born and was blaming my business because I worked too hard and then she was blaming me for the birth of our second child. But overall besides some PMS we had a good marriage for 25 1/2 years.

Whether she will go ahead a really file papers is unknown to me at this time. 10 days ago at her last counseling session she told the therapist she did not want a divorce. So all I can hope for is that she may not go through with all this and that "this too shall pass" but it is a scary time for me and my adult children.

I guess I will continue my detachment and hope for the best.

WifeDepressed, I'm sorry! This economy coupled with peri is a lot to deal with. We women need security. My DH has gone through two job losses and I have gone through one myself. I'ts not easy and it's much harder the older we get.

Your wife probably has an unrealistic view of what divorce is really like, especially when you have children. Once you have children you are forever tied to the other spouse, first with the children then with the grandchildren. Remind her, the economy will bounce back but who gets to share those grandchildren with her will depend on the choices she makes today.

You said it was a family buisness and one that she has never really liked your being in. Is it possible that she feels you are more tied to the business than to her? That the business or your parents/family comes before her and your family with her? I think maybe you need to reassure her that you want what she wants and that is a secure and united family. Money pays the bills but it doesn't warm the heart.


(((hugs)))

Thanks carol for the advice, I think a lot like you do and I believe so does my wife however she is not acting rationally, or thinking everything through to its completion. My wife's bizarre behavior comes from I believe menopausal depression. She wants security and money represents that security to her. She knows that I love her and she
falsely believes that I can not provide the security for her. She has built up a wall that I do not believe can be broken down. She has no idea what divorce will be like and maybe with the detachment thing or an actual separation she will learn but its all just very sad and unnecessary. We will not be better off getting separated or divorced, it will cost us more to live two separate lives but I don't think that reality sinks in with her. I know the more I push for a normal relationship, the more she resists, so the only real choice is to detach and see what happens. But during this detachment process she becomes more depressed, so its very strange.
I can tell you this whole process is a real journey and seems to be testing me to the limit. I still hope for a good outcome at the end of the tunnel and that we will be stronger and better because of it.

\

I have a relative who went through Peri and was really mean to her husband. She used the D word often and the need for her independence. This guy is laid back and the epitome of detachment. He also travels for his job (intenational for a month or two at a time). I noticed it was a little longer when things got rough. Well they're fine now, but his demeaner kept her in check because she new that if she acted on the divorce, he would have driven her to a lawyer and said whatever you want honey. This relative now gives me advice that I should be more like her husband because it kept her n check and she knew what the consequences would be.

I totally agree. The more you allow someone to treat you like a doormat, the more respect they lose for you. I'd drive her to the attorney too.

oh my gosh, I'm so sorry - that is a very cruel reaction on her part. (((hugs)))

My wife mentioned divorce, separation, etc. I got so exhausted of it one day I said, fine, let's make the plans. Her reaction was what do you mean let's make the plans? I said well I'm part of the divorce too, you'll have to agree to my terms too. We are part of the marriage, we'll each be part of the divorce. If we negotiate it ourselves we'll save a lot of money on lawyers. So, first the house, I was here first so you'll have to move. She said we'll sell it. I said no, you have a huge pension, we'll have to divest that if we sell the house, so I'll keep the house, you'll keep your pension. That was that. She had no energy to deal with that little conversation and I think she realized how real it would be.

We are, by the way, happily married still almost four years after that conversation.

Don't be afraid of the conversation. Keeping it real may indeed save your marriage.

I think it's called reverse psychology

Good for you!! You did exactly what she needed to see and hear.

hahahaha, no it was fighting for my marriage. I think so many men in this situation get apprehensive and passive...wrong move, be a man and show her you will fight for what is yours. We men have been cowed by the be sensitive and emotional talk, that's not what most women want, they want a man. Sure men have emotions, but we aren't all weepy and weak, we are men. Stupid and testosterone driven, weepy no, dumb as stones at times, yes. So be hard headed, she'll remember why whe married you!

hahahahaha...Seriously though, don't get all weak now!