Does anyone go to sleep at night, or almost asleep and then bam, you are startled awake? Like someone came up behind you and said "boo!". Your stomach feels nervous or anxious and your wide awake again, afraid to try and go back to sleep? That is what is happening to me. I am right in between sleep and wake, and then I am startled awake by an anxious type feeling, then I am scared. There is nothing causing it, no outside factors, just happening.

Other nights, I toss and turn, so tired, but I only sleep an hour or two, then I have this really light type sleep, keep waking up. My body will jerk, or I will have those snap or banging noises in my head...ughhh..

Can anyone tell me if anything they have tried, is working for them?

I take xanax at night, it only takes the edge off. I have tried Benedryl, muscle relaxers, melatonin ( I know this sounds bad, although I really am very careful..not an addict yet..sigh)..nothing really works for me. Partly because I am sooo nervous about taking anything, my mind goes in overdrive when I do. I start to think I am going to be like Michael Jackson or Heath Ledger and not wake up!

( I have been to all the doctors, and on paper, I am the picture of health, even had my adrenals tested, what do they know..)

I just want to get some sleep

Sunny~

Yes, this is what I've been going through for now two years. Last night was the worst. I'm near hysterical in the morning because yet another night of the constant jumping up. My doctor told me to try two xanax because I have the lowest dose. But the one didn't do a thing for this. I tried Klonopin after months of being afraid to take it. Because when I jump up it feels like my stomach is tight and I can't breath. Klonopin did not work either and made me feel so much more anxious in the morning with a hang over feeling plus the lack of sleep all night. I've been on paxil for over 12 years . It worked for me for anxiety attack during the day with hyperventilaton syndrome I had. But it was only 10mg. It does not do a thing anymore but if I don't take it for a day or two I get the brain zaps from withdrawal. So she wants me to double it to 20mg for six weeks. Wondering if anyone else has been on an ssri this long that stopped working and if raising dose would work after all this time. The only thing I havn't tried(afraid to) is ambian. I have no trouble falling asleep. But I jolt up from maybe 10 minutes of sleep over and over and over again. I lost my p/t job over a year ago. I can't even think about looking for another one when I'm up all night doing this. I used to be able to fall asleep peacefully at like 6 in the morning. Now thats gone too. I'm 51 and still get periods but there all over the place. I had a sleep study done but they said no apnea. Had Mri done and they found lesions on my frontal lobe . Report said maybe ischemia or llyme. Had lyme test and negative. I have normal blood pressure and low cholesterol. So I have an appt with neuro to discuss results next week. Wondering if this couldn't be causing this problem and it's from my brain. I'm just so scared . It helps to know that I'm not the only one. But I don't think anyone has no sleep at all for months ata time.

Yes, this is what I've been going through for now two years. Last night was the worst. I'm near hysterical in the morning because yet another night of the constant jumping up. My doctor told me to try two xanax because I have the lowest dose. But the one didn't do a thing for this. I tried Klonopin after months of being afraid to take it. Because when I jump up it feels like my stomach is tight and I can't breath. Klonopin did not work either and made me feel so much more anxious in the morning with a hang over feeling plus the lack of sleep all night. I've been on paxil for over 12 years . It worked for me for anxiety attack during the day with hyperventilaton syndrome I had. But it was only 10mg. It does not do a thing anymore but if I don't take it for a day or two I get the brain zaps from withdrawal. So she wants me to double it to 20mg for six weeks. Wondering if anyone else has been on an ssri this long that stopped working and if raising dose would work after all this time. The only thing I havn't tried(afraid to) is ambian. I have no trouble falling asleep. But I jolt up from maybe 10 minutes of sleep over and over and over again. I lost my p/t job over a year ago. I can't even think about looking for another one when I'm up all night doing this. I used to be able to fall asleep peacefully at like 6 in the morning. Now thats gone too. I'm 51 and still get periods but there all over the place. I had a sleep study done but they said no apnea. Had Mri done and they found lesions on my frontal lobe . Report said maybe ischemia or llyme. Had lyme test and negative. I have normal blood pressure and low cholesterol. So I have an appt with neuro to discuss results next week. Wondering if this couldn't be causing this problem and it's from my brain. I'm just so scared . It helps to know that I'm not the only one. But I don't think anyone has no sleep at all for months ata time.

my sister-in-law finally had to start taking ambien.. it worked for her

I can't take Ambien or other sleep medications as I am on xanax regularly.

Just wondering if anyone else experienced similiar things at night, thanks for taking the time to read and respond though ~

Sunny,

I have been experiencing the same situation. I have high anxiety at night. Often if I fall asleep I wake within 45 minutes, heart beating fast. Often I just toss and turn the rest of the night. The longer I lay awake the more anxious I become. Going to bed I dread.....I'm sure this has created sleep anxiety. I have tried the sleep meds and different benzos, they either didn't work or I was afraid of becoming like Michael Jackson. I have used with some success an older AD - Trazodone. It's cheap and it works most of the time. Non additive and can be taken long term. I've had to experience with the dosage and take it nightly. I do look forward to the day that I don't need to take it. But for now this is where I'm at.

Judy

I meant "experiment" with the dosage. Sorry!

I experience these things off and on...they were much worse in peri....am now 2 years post, but due to a lot of stress and anxiety in my life right now am having a huge problem with sleeping again and sleep the same as you describe!

Its awful, yes.....I have managed to go through some good spells with meditation and the odd melatonin, but have never taken sleep aids or even anti-anxiety meds.

But you are most definately not alone......

Thank you all ladies for your kind responses, and I am sorry that any of you are experiencing what I have been. Last night I did sleep with some help of Benedryl, but I was tossing and turning around 2:00 until 4:00..ughhh! Thanks again Ladies and I hope you all had a restful night sleep! Sunny~

I've experienced these also.....Mine have gone away lately. I think just finding a balance to deal with "this" particular symptom but others pop up in its place. I will say these were some of the worse.....when I was in the midst of it I got to a point where I was afraid to go to sleep! Melatonin and SleepyTime Extra tea helped me sleep. Eating a small snack with protein seemed to help also. I think they are adrenal rushes....why they come at night always drove me crazy trying to figure out. My conclusion was that I was having them during the day but was distracted and didn't feel them as much as when I finally quited down at night. I take Adrenal supplements which help build up the adrenal glands and I think this helps. Just my 2 cents.

Oars

Add me to the list , night after night I wake up startled and then can't go back to sleep. I think it is adrenal surges too, sometime my chest will start to hurt also. Did I say I am 2 1/2 years post and still fighting flashes and surges !!!!!!

HI Sunny ..... yes, I've had this many times. It's hormonal mainly .... coupled with anxiety. I've experienced that loud "banging" sound, and jolted from bed, only to see it was nothing.... so, the sound was in my head! But again, i' know this is anxiety .... I also take xanax, and it does help, I also take Benadryl which gets me drowsy... however, it doesn't ALWAYS make me fall asleep....sometimes it does. It sometimes happens to me at that same point you described, where you are just about falling asleep, and BAM .... it hits! That jolt, like an electrical shock, and that loud bang .... it 's crazy. I seem to have gone through most of that stuff in the beginning ... but I still experience it from time to time.
I also can NOT get any sleep ...geez! I just can't fall asleep.... so, I pace, read, get on the comp. (like now..lol), watch TV, write, .....whatever.....but, yeah, this lousy sleep thing really stinks, and of course, without the proper amount of GOOD sleep, it begins to affect the rest of the body, and here we go.....a vicious cycle!

I am post by 2 years also, and STILL get the sleepless nights and anxiety.......darn it!

My experiences are very similar. Sometimes I will wake up suddenly, and other nights it's just a fitful night of sleep. Either way, I typically can't get back to sleep and toss and turn the remainder of the night. I take melatonin before I go to bed and it definitely helps me to feel drowsy and fall asleep. But it really doesn't help for when I wake up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep. It doesn't keep me asleep. Quite often, I don't feel like my sleep is very deep either. I wake up in the morning feeling exhausted and fuzzy-headed; sometimes I even feel nauseated from the lack of quality sleep. I get up at 3:30 a.m. for work, so it's important I get quality sleep.

I do know that physical activity helps me to burn off excess anxiety and energy, and I haven't gotten as much physical activity the past four years. Other than that, I sure wish I could be one of those people who sleeps like a rock. I can sympathize with anyone here who has problems with sleep.

“Studies show that the length of sleep is not what causes us to be refreshed upon waking. The key factor is the number of complete sleep cycles we enjoy. Each sleep cycle contains five distinct phases, which exhibit different brain- wave patterns. For our purposes, it suffices to say that one sleep cycle lasts an average of 90 minutes: 65 minutes of normal, or non-REM (rapid eye movement), sleep; 20 minutes of REM sleep (in which we dream); and a final 5 minutes of non-REM sleep. The REM sleep phases are shorter during earlier cycles (less than 20 minutes) and longer during later ones (more than 20 minutes). If we were to sleep completely naturally, with no alarm clocks or other sleep disturbances, we would wake up, on the average, after a multiple of 90 minutes–for example, after 4 1/2 hours, 6 hours, 7 1/2 hours, or 9 hours, but not after 7 or 8 hours, which are not multiples of 90 minutes. In the period between cycles we are not actually sleeping: it is a sort of twilight zone from which, if we are not disturbed (by light, cold, a full bladder, noise), we move into another 90-minute cycle. A person who sleeps only four cycles (6 hours) will feel more rested than someone who has slept for 8 to 10 hours but who has not been allowed to complete any one cycle because of being awakened before it was completed…. ”

Dear 'frozentundra'
Now that is very interesting and actually makes sense
Where do you get all this great information from?
I always do my best to practise good 'Sleep Hygiene' but have had to take the odd sleeping pill when it has got really bad.
All the Best
Elizabeth

Hi

on the net. Just google "sleep cycle" !


I find my sleep cycles tend to be one hour or three hours but have had them round off at two at times. I think under stress your sleep cycle can condense to 45 min to an hour or less. When I first had insomnia due to Grave disease, I slept 15 minutes a NIGHT for over a month. Try dealing with that! I would fall asleep after a terrific struggle, go right into the dream state and wake right back up owing to distress/stress. They put me on ametrypoline ?- gave me a sleep seizure after a few uses so I quit it. Went into my Dr (barely able to hold my head up at that pointwith household and two toddlers to deal with all day) and I told him to give me something OR ELSE. Of course, anytime DRS cannot figure out a problem, its all mentally based. He wanted me to take counseling. (Yea, because counseling will resolve Graves Disease.) He gave me the strongest dose of xanax they made. I took one pill and 20 min. later felt "normal" for the first time in months.

Sorry to elaborate upon myself, once again, when you only had a question.

Hi, Sunny...my name is Lacey and I'm new here. I actually found this forum tonight because I was researching what my symptoms were and I started thinking if this has something to do with hormones. So, here I am.

I am 48 and have been perimenopausal for maybe three - four years. I think. All I know is that the past three years have been HELL on my body and mind. I have been diagnosed with Panic and Anxiety Disorder as well as Agoraphobia and OCD.

Now I'm having to deal with an intense fearful feeling in the pit of my stomach (right below the sternum) and it travels up my chest to my throat and around my ribs somewhat and this happens at night. It's hard to describe the feeling so I'll just say it's and INTENSE anxiety feeling. This all started about a month or so ago. I would lie down to sleep and as soon as I start dozing I wake up with that feeling and my heart pounding. It started off happening only sometimes and when I would sit up it would ease off. Now, for the past week, it's every night and sitting up it's barely easing off. It's all very strange. In the past three days I have slept a minium of 4 hours and that's just tallying up the minutes of sleep before waking up with that feeling of terror. I also get the horrible vibrating feeling. I honestly feel like I am dying when this happens. That horrible fearful feeling in my stomach has been with me all day today and that was after sitting up all night with it. I should mention that the past two weeks I've been getting major gas through my ribs and back and a lot of pressure in my stomach. I'm not sure it's related but it just might be. With my anxiety I'm thinking the worst of course...stomach cancer, etc.

The only meds I take is Nadolol with beta blocker for hbp and a 2mg valium when I feel I need it...which I've been needing quite often lately. It's not helping that's for sure.

I really don't know what to do except go ahead and go see my doctor who will then refer me to a gastro doctor which I can't afford.

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone and it helps me to share my feelings of fear.

Lacey

Lacey I have the exact same thing. I've written many posts on this. Even had sleep study and was told anxiety. I get the feeling starting like it tightening up right in the middle under breast bone. Any little stress sets it off and then that's all I can think about. My stomach bloats up because the muscles I guess get so tight that it also creates reflux. I finally realized that what happens to me in the day is also happening to me just when I'm just asleep. I leap up and the muscles in my stomach or maybe diaphram clench and I feel panic and like I can't breath. This happens over and over again all night everytime I start falling asleep. Never ever had this before perimenopause. I mean I would get anxiety but this is like my stomach knots up and I can't function or even think straight. I try my relaxation breathing but once it knots it messes up all my digestion. It only happens when I feel stressed which is all the time now. Never had anxiety like this before to even happen in my sleep. I sometimes take xanax which helps a little. I'm also upping my dose of Paxil from 10mg which I have been on for 12 years to 20. It's been five days but it has not helped yet. It's become so involuntary that the solar plexus just tenses up and I can't relax the muscles until I sit in the room by myself for hours. Even when I shop now which I used to love I get this feeling. I think I need a muscle relaxer but how could I function normally taking that? This anxiety symptom is stopping me from enjoying company even. I so glad for this board. I thought noone had this happen to them but me.

Check my post under Heart Pounding at night with chest pain - HELP.

Try taking 60-100mg of SOY ISOFLAVONE. You might start with 30mg and go from there. The one I found that is working is the GENESTEIN complex. If it keeps working I am going to keep taking it.

It stopped this night terror, waking up with gut knotted and heart pounding thing the FIRST NIGHT I TOOK IT. I guess you could try the soy shakes also but the isoflavone level has to be upwards of 40-60 mg. per day to do the trick. For some women it has to be around 100mg but I would start low and if that works for you, stay with it.

For some reason, the Estroven style blends did not have the same effect for me as straight up isoflavone.

God bless and help you all and Happy Thanksgiving...!

Reading these over again I realize this is a syndrome common to many women who don't seem to get as many hot flashes. Personally, I'd take the hot flash, wouldn't you?

My "wallbanger" as I call it, usually happens between 2 and 5 but nearly always at 3-4AM. I wake up from a deep sleep with that familiar gut knot under the diaphgram and clench. You clench automatically. I believe it is the clench that starts the heart pounding like a drum. Then you think, in my weakened state of just waking up my heart cant take that kind of action. This will KILL me! Now panic ensues. You don't know why this happens and you are terrified you have a heart condition or terrible disease. Panic ensues. The adrenaline surges and the pounding or palps can go through the roof and then your entire upper body knots up. YOur arms knot up from clenching and feel heavy or tight. Your chest hurts. You know it does and often times you feel it left sides. You are sure this is the BIG ONE. (As Redd Foxx used to day, "Ethel, I'm coming to join you, honey!") So you lay there panting like a dog or holding your breath trying to stop it or doing labor breathing. Some of you grab your feet and push on acupressure points. Some roll over and some just roll. Everyone is afraid to get up because it makes it worse.

If you could stop that automatic reflex to clench as soon as you are conscious, I think you could abort the panic and pounding. The only way to stop the panic is either to take ALOT of anti anxiety med BEFORE you go to sleep and keep it coming through the night or if you happen to be a mind over matter person and can talk yourself calm, goodie for you. Not everyone has that kind of willpower, personal conviction or determination. After many many such episodes you realize it is NOT going to kill you. Then, because it has happened so much, you find yourself clenching EVERY time you wake up regardless of whether this adrenaline rush is happening or NOT. Further progression, you become afraid to sleep because this COULD happen again and WILL. Or you just fall asleep and subconsciously jerk yourself awake over and over. The result; total exhaustion.

I haven't read ONE PERSONS STORY YET who figure out how to stop these adrenal rushes. Every one of them said they had to go through it. One lady said it went on EVERY NIGHT FOR YEARS. I told my husband, I would rather be dead than go through that every night. I think if you can figure out WHEN the worst rush happens, sleep as hard as you can before that, give yourself an hour or two up during that rush so you can try to skip it and then go back to sleep when it usually ends. That may be why so many women sit up between 2-4 AM whiling away their hours of anxiety. I'd LOVE to read some POST MENOPAUSAL womens response of how she cured herself of this problem. Wouldn't you? Where are those responses? WHere are the CURES? Even a quick fix for a night or two would be a relief.

I haven't seen ANY difference for more than a day or two with anything I've tried. But I have a new plan in mind I am going to implement tonight. If it works for three consecutive nights I will write back here. If not, back to the old drawing board. I do not intend to give up and so if you are a praying person, pray God shows me how to resolve this as I am praying it. If I can resolve it for me, maybe I can help YOU resolve it. But I am a firm believer that PRAYER CHANGES THINGS.

frozentundra,
I too would like a resonable solution to this. I was at first taken sleeping pills that are suppose to make you sleep 7-8 hours at a time. Well not me. I would get 3 hours sleep. After a while I would sleep a little longer but felt terrible when I woke up with anxiety and not remembering. Eventually I was addicted to them. So my doctor told me to try Klonopin (benzo). At first it worked great. I would sleep 6-7 hours. Then I started to take half the dose and still worked good. Then when I had major stressor come into my life I had to up the dose again and have horrible morning anxiety. It's been a yr and I still have to take the Klonopin at night although I get 7 hours of sleep I still wake up with horrible anxiety. I don't usually settle down till evening. I'm 6 yrs post at 46 and can't take this anymore. I'm not on any hrt of any kind. Let me know your secret if you figure one out.
(((((char)))))

I think there can be different reasons why women in meno wake up at varying times all night with horrible anxiety, anxiety plus dread or even terrible feelings of insecurity and hopelessness. I have been trying to piece my own puzzle together and last night, very nearly went to the ER AGAIN.

I FORGOT to take my xanax before bed, went right into a deep sleep (its like the coma sleep because you are so tired when you finally do go off) and my dog woke me. I was startled but the startled was with the gut knot that feels like my transverse colon (right under lower ribs) is bloated and no air will come forth, if you know what I mean. My entire abdomen has been somewhat bloated for the past month and everything I eat, except breakfast oatmeal, seems to in some fashion upset it further. Then the constipation, feeling like I have to go but dont, strain but just hard nuggets or better yet, after one of these episodes. It comes out all like long skinny curly q's, soft and sometimes burning...which means acid. To continue and ask pardon for being graphic, as the gut knot tightens from spasming pain the anxiety sets in and what begins as a mild slow pounding of the heart turns into a tachycardia, humpty dumpty pounding epidose with chest pain I can feel through my back. The left side of my body tightens and I get a spasm like feeling between the lower left rib where the knot is and it goes straight around and up my back under the left shoulder.

Last night, I took a xanax during this episode and started to go back to sleep but NOT, a massive wave of that adrenaline or pain sponsored fear came over me and it felt like it went straight into my heart in waves up my chest. I thought it was the end, yet again. I made my way on shaky legs to my husband downstairs who held me very tight and said it was not a heart attack and relax. I couldn't. The wave of whatever it was made me feel like either puking or passing out. My legs went into the massive shakes. So hard the entire bed was like a vibrator. That went on 15 minutes without stop. At least then my chest didn't hurt. The legs were shaking uncontrollably and I still felt weak in the stomach like puking. So then I took a PS and another xanax. Husband held me so tight I could hardly move. It was the best thing he could do. He put his warm hands over my stomach and this helped soothe the knotted pain. I took a gaviscon pill which has low level magnesium. I fretted and worried what sort of wierd heart disease only strikes at night when you are dead asleep!

About twenty minutes later my body finally relaxed, the adrenaline kept rushing another hour even with the meds but then I finally went back to sleep. Woke a couple hours later with the dreaded "start" which made my stomach knot instantly but this time, some inner instinct in my sleepy state made me take my left hand and push HARD into the left side of that upper gut knot. As I did this, the knot released and no panic attack ensued. I breathed waiting to see if something else would happen but it didn't and the familiar wave of horrid anxiety/pain/adrenaline did not come that produces the awful nausea/weak/sick/dread feeling. I got up and went upstairs because hubby had to go to work. I felt afraid to be left alone.

Then, I suddenly had this idea to take a tablespoon of virgin olive oil and mix it with a tsp of fresh squeezed lemon to which I added three shakes of sea salt. Mixed it up and drank it down and then went up to my chair and sat down. I was asleep in minutes and slept another hour, woke with the usual start and realized I did not have a stomach knot but an urge to GO. I got right up and passed the first NORMAL stool I've had in a month. All day since I've passed air normally and its been a real relief. My stomach was nauseated so I took zantac today and did alot of snoozing. I did not really even feel like eating or anything else but I drank water.

I called my sister, the nurse and told her my symptoms. She said they were the EXACT symptoms she experienced during her two or three year bout with IBS. She would awaken with the hard stomach knot and feel just as if she would pass out or throw up and would head right to a warm bath tub. S he said drinking nearly HOT water and warm baths was all she could do to control it. After months of testing they concluded IBS and then of course, she has just HAD a hysterectomy! Her hormones had gone into a sudden death roll. She had to eat very gently, nothing past 6 pm and drink only warm water and teas at night. She said the IBS meds they gave her for spasm made her feel worse so she would not use them. The cure? PREMARIN. She went on it for ten years and no more IBS.

Because estrogen so highly regulates so MANY functions in the body, especially working with serotonin (which, as you recall, inhibits PAIN) it stands to reason that MANY women with sudden death roll hormone drops are going to end up with this nighttime adrenaline rush. Whether the adrenaline that is cortisol based as the adrenals fight to create new sources of needed estrogen is the primary trigger or whether the drop in serotonin that blocks pain and helps us FEEL GOOD is the main trigger, I don't know. But if this goes on you have cortisol being produced and utilized by the body instead of needed estrogen. I am not a heavy woman, that is, I have very little body fat. Heavy women tend to get through this crisis spot easier because their fat stores retain estrogen.

I think in my case, it is entirely possible that the cortisol is too high, the serotonin is too low and there is no real estrogen to work with at this point. I have a highly sensitive nervous system and everything affects my gut (maybe owing to the celiac) but I suspect that my dayttime efforts to plow through and refocus are insufficient. I think my body needs that serotonin all day long to function and these nighttime horror episodes are some serious breatkthrough anxiety, coupled with not enough serotonin for the gut to function properly - and I think I have IBS. I think the constipation that came on suddenly was owing to this and perhaps not drinking enough, which is hard to do at times. My sister who had the IBS attacks that woke her from sleep said she did not panic so she didn't get the secondary heart pounding. She just felt as if she would pass out or throw up and run to the bathroom. Either I have to start treating my lack of serotonin by taking a consistent does of serotonin all day (xanax) or get some estrogen into this body daily. Ive decided to take my sisters advice and try the gaviscon or plain philips milk of magnesia at night when the knot forms (which is usually proceeded by waking up with what feels like restless leg syndrome.) I am going on my xanax daytime to see if this will help the nighttime issue and keep a warm pack near the bed at night.

I dont' know if this will work. But I am going to do it and SEE. As for those of you who don't wake up with the horrid stomach knot, you may be experiencing the low serotonin/high night cortisol syndrome that usually wakes you up 3-4 AM with panic and adrenal surges or in the early morning with the same. I suggest you get a bottle of PS (phosphatidyl serine) and take on at 6 pm and another when you wake up at night with the surge. IT DOES HELP STEM THE SURGES especially if you CHEW THE PILL rather than swallow whole. IF FAST is what you need, chew it. If you can, drink warm sleepytime, hops, Linden or chamomile tea before bed and keep a mug next at the bedstand. IF you have anti anxiety medication, THAT IS THE TIME TO USE IT.

So far, the Aswhaganda is proving interesting. I take one morning and one evening. The problem is that it can effectively mask the low serotonin making you feel calm enough to go to bed thinking all is well. Take it for the calming effect but do not expect it will help with breakthrough nighttime anxiety/adrenal surges. If taking the Phillips or other magnesium source will calm down your adrenals at night, go right on ahead and use as much as the bottle will allow you at night along with some warm water or tea. I think the real answer here is ESTROGEN and if you cant do estrogen, then you may have to do the SSRI or 5http or L -Trytophan. Just be careful not to mix those last three in any fashion. You ladies with this night horror please try some of these and write back to let us know what worked and what did not.

Its hard to impossible to be CALM when you think you are about to pass out, upchuck your insides or die from a heart attack episode. The acuppressure people tell you to press on the inside central bottoms of your feet hard or between the webbing of the thumb and index fingers. Acupuncture may be a way to get through this, I don't know any in my area but haven't looked either. I am not keen to have someone who may not know precisely what they are doing poking needles through my epidermal layer. I have one further suggestion to try; when you wake up like this with the dread of death, panic and pounding and other hysterias, try rolling over, sitting up and grabbing your feet just below the ankles and SCREAM. Scream as LOUD and HARD as you can until you feel better. That may not work with a house full of people.

While searching the internet for clues, I found this link which, if you scroll down a bit, talks about the menopause link to low magnesium. Even while the blood tests show it is normal it may NOT be. The results can be the waking at night in panic, the nonstop anxiety, depression, heart arrythymias, etc. The nutritionist at our coop suggested taking this KAL magnesium glycinate. I explained that I have never been able to take magnesium WITHOUT calcium or I get palps from it. She assured me this formula is different, non binding, easy on the gut. So I tried it. No palps, no stomach upset, sweet taste. I felt much calmer since starting on it. I am taking it very slowly though, a half pill two or three times daily. I took a half before bed last night. I have to admit, I had the best nights rest I've had in over a month. I mean I still woke up every one to two hours and still had the 3-4 AM surge, BUT (big big BUT) it was not as HORRIBLE as usual. If this makes it possible for me to rest better I will continue to use it. Interestingly, women become LOW on magnesium during periods also thus leading to some of the PMS symptoms and its also related to menopausal migraines and depression.

http://www.newtreatments.org/depression

According to the sites I've researched, you can take up to 800mg of this magnesium glycinate a day without problems unless you had kidney/heart disease. I think I will start with a moderate dose of about 200 mg a day and go from THERE.

So now my regimen is as follows: (thus far)

AM 1/4 tsp Emerita phytoestrogen cream
breakfast plus Ester C
coQ10
lecithin
flax seed, crushed (not much, cannot take alot of it)
ashwaghanda (1/2 of a 500 pill)

LUNCH
lunch + vitamin mineral combo liquid
1/2 KAL magnesium
later:
calcium/mineral liquid supp (separate with water)

DINNER
dinner + enzymes (if heavy meal)
iron (every 3 days)
1/2 pill ashwaghanda


8PM
repeat Emerita phytoestrogen or progesterone if preferred (cream)
take PS (100 mg. phosphatidyl serine)
1/2 KAL magnesium in water or milk if preferred
1/2l dose xanax or what you take

DRINK TWO LARGE GLASSES OF WATER BETWEEN MEALS AND ONE BEFORE BED, KEEP ONE AT BEDSIDE

12-1AM repeat PS dose if anxiety is UP
take the BIG dose of xanax or anti anxiety because the adrenal surge from the cortisol changeover occurs between 2-5 AM with the RUSH or RUSHES

doze between 4-6 after the BIG RUSH is over, just keep dozing and waking up

DONT TAKE THE PS after 1:30 AM because it will forestall your morning cortisol you NEED to wake up and get moving!

GET UP AND URINATE as often as needed at night to flush out the ADRENALINE, drink a small glass of water after each toilet visit to keep hydrated


I TRIED the isoflavones, very limited effect. I tried the Revival SOY, gut problems, bloating, constipation and so sugary its nauseating. Less effective than the Emerita cream for ME. EATING at night has succeeded in making my adrenal surges WORSE.

OH, and if you get repeated adrenal surges, get up and change your sleeping location. It can HELP. I sometimes sleep three places in one night.

If you get one BIG adrenal surge at night instead of lots of little ones, its best to lie in the wake up position staying as calm as you can, breathing normally and when you feel the rush start over your arms/chest, stomach, grab a foot or both feet and rub the soles or ankles. Keep breathing normally and you may not get the heart palpitations/pounding. DO NOT LET YOURSELF BE TERRIFIED. ITS HARD BUT YOU CAN DO THIS. When the main rush passes, roll gently over to the side you get up on, prop yourself up slowly and calmly and get up and WALK. Walk around until the feelings PASS.

I HOPE THIS HELPS, ITS ALL I KNOW TO DO SO FAR.

EVER ONWARD AND UPWARD< LADIES!!! (anybody else have some ideas that WORK GOOD???)

I apologize as this is turning into a meno journal, so wrong section here. But I think if I update my experiences it may help those of you whose lives are in turmoil over adrenal surges at night.

Still on the same program above, took the KAL magnesium twice last night, one half before bed and one around 1 AM when I felt that restless, anxious, icky feeling. Here's the odd thing that happened. I was braced for the big surge between 2-4 like every night. Only instead of that happening, I woke up every hour with the gearing up thing and then I just laid there trying to think BE CALM BE CALM BE CALM and instead of the big surge, the surge went from the mid body or stomach straight up through my chest and into my head and turned into a HOT FLASH. It was a mini flash with some neck sweating afterwards, very minor. Only lasted about ONE minute. This happened every hour for three hours and then STOPPED when the bad adrenal rush was over. I slept normally in between. Actually, this mini flash was very pleasant compared to the gut knot, heart pounding, about to die feeling megasurge.

The only difference I can account for is the KAL magnesium. I was actually using the same or LESS xanax than other nights. PLUS I had eaten a bowl of my daughters chili (big mistake but who wants to offend?) so I was expecting the megasurge...

OKAY, its worth a try...! Let's see how we get on with this program.

Thanks frozentundra--- i WILL get that and give it a try-- the magnesium was recommended to me but i just picked some up and it is the oxide rather than the glycinate-- not sure if there is that much of a differenct BUT I WILL TRY ANYTHING-- i go to bed praying that God will just go ahead and take me before i have to experience that dreadful 2-5am sh-tuff--- for some reason i'm still here every morning-- so i'll be heading out to get the exact stuff you are speaking of-- i'm figureing KAL is the brand??

i REALLY need a break in all this

thanks
melody

I totally understand, TOTALLY. I was praying the same thing. GET THE EXACT STUFF in the MAGNESIUM, no mixes or stuff like it. I also recommend the PS and I use Natural Factors but you can try a sub there if it is the equivalent. Also, the ashwaghanda helps during the day. I think I should double my dose but it keeps the tide from turning on me all day so I don't. The cream takes about three days to get into your system used regularly. It does HELP. I got a very interesting piece of advice off a website this AM. The author stated that until we ACCEPT the changes and agree to RIDE OUT the rushes, our fighting them makes the process unbearable. This author said that she just let the waves pass over her no matter how uncomfortable, she didn't resist, didn't tense up and go rigid and over time they became little more than a silly nuisance and one day, disappeared entirely. If you truly believe in your mind your life is threatened each time this happens (as I did and you probably do) trying to relax is like trying to sit still and breathe quietly while someone axes off a very useful body part while you are fully conscious! We have to ALSO retrain our minds and this takes time because that fight or flight axis is now triggered and highly reactive. So much so, getting off to sleep is unnerving and waking up a startle festival.

Perhaps some more experienced gals know some good mind training and loving self talk methods that will help. I don't mean book recommendations, I mean practical tips RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. Let's try one simple one tonight. Take your anti anxiety pill or what have you and then...

We lie down, we feel the dread creeping up but we assure ourselves, "nothing TRULY DANGERUOS has happened to me YET and nothing will because this is just a stage. I ACCEPT this stage of my life. I accept me getting older. I accept the physical changes even though I don't admire them. I accept that I am moving into a new stage of my life. This stage is the one I've been waiting for. I will be free of the things that held me back before. Soon I will be there. I am almost there now. I will NOT resist the waves when they come tonight. I will ride them out like I am on a surfboard. I won't be afraid, I won't resist, I will just lie here quietly and relax my body. I will breathe easy. I will ACCEPT what it happening to me as NORMAL. This is just like riding a bike. Once I get the hang of it, I won't ever forget how to do it and it will be EASY. I am a good, loving and kind woman and I am going to be kind to myself right now by allowing myself to REST. I choose to rest. Now I will block out of my mind ALL of these fearful thoughts, apprehensions and terror and I will think ONLY of REST and PEACE. REST and PEACE. REST and PEACE. Nothing else can enter into my thoughts because I WONT LET THEM."

Blocking negative thinking can be very hard but it is possible and we CAN do it. I have done it before and I am determined to do it again. Think of yourself as a goalie and every negative thought as pucks from the opposing team. You know what your job is. Beating the trained fear is hard and you will probably experience muscle jerks, stomach effects, etc but don't give in. Stick to your mental guns and be the goalie of all goalies tonight. We will succeed!!!

p.s. when your magnesium is low and estrogen drops your intracellular magnesium, that means your potassium drops. Magnesium holds potassium in the cells. You may want to bump it up - especially if prone to stiff legs or arm muscles - by eating potatoes, V8 juice, bananas, whole oats oatmeal, milk, etc. You can drink gatorade if that helps also. Daytime naps are GOOD. WHY? They teach your body to relax in a non threatening time and space. This HELPS when you go to sleep at night. NAPS ARE GOOD TRAINING.

VERY GOOD!!! thank you-- man--i can barely get out a sentence--that would be a full days work for me-- but what you wrote-- whewwww-- that would put me back for a month-- haha

thanks though--

maybe you could come to texas and in the middle of the night-- could "counsel" me back to sleep , lol

mel

I know what you mean. Maybe by repeating all that to yourself you would bore yourself into sleep!

Think of some power self talk that will work for YOU in that crisis moment. I think you have to make up your mind to NOT think about any of this as much as possible and never at night before bed. How do you think you can accomplish that? Lobotomy is not a choice, here! Some KEY FOCUS that really keeps your attention might help. I mean one OTHER than the symptoms...

Today I was just so wired from jumping awake all night that I just felt awful. Hubby came home and he has this ongoing back spasm so we are both up at night. I took half of one of those magnesium and crawled into bed next to him. I laid there for what seemed like an eternity with my heart pounding in anxiety. About twenty minutes later I was sound asleep. Something jolted me awake about an hour later but I had no panic attack and no power surge. I realized I had been sleeping quite peacefully and felt much better.

I think there is a lot to this magnesium deficiency thing for some of us. But getting the ONE that works with your body is the key. I've tried LOTS of them without even CLOSE to this effect. I can use one of these pills more effectively than xanax for some reason. Maybe I have been deficient for awhile.

I would happily counsel you or anyone else in the throes of menopause but who would counsel ME when I was done?

Okay,

quick update. Yesterday I was just beat all day from so many nights of waking up constantly and the stress you feel when you wake up frightened. I asked hubby to take a nap with me and we did. But I just layed there with heart pounding while he snored away. I took half of the KAL MAG and within 20 min was SOUND ASLEEP. I woke up with a start about an hour later because I couldn't figure out HOW IT HAPPENED! But I felt well enough to carry on the rest of the day. Went to bed last night, took another half of the KAL before bed along with a 1/2 low dose xanax. I was COLD because we had a sudden temp drop with a two day blizzard here and its FREEZING but I slept well. Woke up about every two to two and a half hours but slept hard, peacefully and had normal dreams in between. The megasurge never hit and the mini surges were only two and even less than the previous night so nothing to write home about. I woke up about 4:30 when the dog wanted out, got up, walked around and came back to bed after eating a COOKIE. (Felt hungry.) Dozed another half hour. I notice that if I get that niggling awful inside creepy crawly nerve feeling about 1/2 of the KAL MAG will knock it out. I have stepped up my drinking milk to compensate for the calcium. My own cal/mag supplement seems to provide only the CAL benefits and NOT MUCH of those really.

I THANK GOD FOR YOUR PRAYERS AND HIS ANSWERS. I am also using ALOT less of the PS now. I do feel more sleepy than I have in some time but then again, after feeling constantly WIRED for nearly two years...ithe step down may be normal.

i'm so happy for you frozentundra-- we really need a good night in between all this stuff--- i did get some of the magnesium that you talked about-- and i did wake during the night but feel i must have fallen back to sleep fairly easy-- but again..... 5 am-- that horrible-- fearful -- lonely anxiety came upon me-- i tried hard to block it from my mind and not let myself think the stupid- and i mean STUPID thoughts that make me go that way-- i know it was not as bad as i've had before but i feel that the more "improved" times we have-- it makes it harder to deal with ANY of that stuff- dont know if i'm making sense or not-- sorry--

but glad you had an improved night, keep us posted with any new info you feel helped. i'm so desperate.

melody

that is so good FT......I too have had a period lately where I have had 'deeper' sleep for up to 5-6 hrs, but then after that I get the toss and turns for the following few hours....but its a huge improvement on the 3-4 hrs of 'bad' sleep waking in a fit of anxiety! I too take a calcium magnesium supplement, but have also changed my diet drastically (digestive issues) and i think I am on my way....OK, maybe i should be more positive...I AM on my way!!!

Let us know how you go....

Melb

it took about two to three nights for the full effect of the mag and I took it when I woke IN THE NIGHT, so about four to five hours apart. Also, consider take the PS just before going to bed or if you wake alot, take it between 1-2AM. This will help with that waking in the terrible anxiety/dread/stage. You may be one who has to take it once during the day towards supper as well if you get the feeling in the daytime.

Another plus, my gut motility is finally improving...air is moving which means things are digesting. I swear for a month nothing was moving and I could hardly "go." I have not changed my diet just the inclusions of the things mentioned in this column so far.

Improvement is improvement...keep me posted how you are doing, all of you!

FT
yes- i take the PS before bedtime (thats how the dr office told me to take it) they also said that it takes a while for that to start working-- ?? not sure if that is correct or if they wanted me to give it some time-- yes improvement is good-- its the stupid times we go backwards like TODAY for me-- , I can't find any motivation/ joy/ spark for life , for anything-- Trying though

mel

MEL

hang in there! If its been weeks since you felt fully rested or even remotely like your better self, it may take some time for rest and healing to occur. There is a patience factor. Today I feel like someone grafted a different head onto my body. It just feels FUNKY. My eyes hurt, I feel dizzy and off balance and a little crispy. Crispy is when your nerves are one edge enough to annoy you but not enough to make you crawl the walls. So I know what you mean. I want to be THE BETTER ME right now, today, this minute...not tomorrow or a thousand tomorrows from now.

So, I guess all I can do is find what I can do today and do it. Enjoy what I can enjoy today and enjoy it. I am praying for ALL of you ladies with this same issue. No matter what I can't do, HE CAN.

I've come to the conclusion I am not really having simple hot flashes or adrenal surges. I think I have lowered gut motility resulting in a lockup of air sometimes around 2-4AM My sister the nurse says that that is the time the colon is active and if there is not enough (maybe fiber, maybe calcium/magnesium/potassium, maybe liquids) to push that through it can result in an IBS style lockup. Where the transverse colon (felt like a KNOT right under the ribcage) begins to spasm in your sleep resulting in TRAPPED GAS and PAIN. This will cause BAD dreams, sudden wakeups and yes, adrenal surges and minor flushing. In my case, because this sort of pain is ACUTE for me, I woke up in ALOT OF PAIN (not recognizing it at all as pain) and PANICKED. Thus, the heart pounding and then adrenal rush after. Most hot flushes you wake from are those that simply wake you up miserable, hot, sweating or drenched and are probably not accompanied by heart palpitations or pounding. I think the heart action comes in when you have lost enough sweat to be low in potassium, or are already low on calcium/magnesium or just magnesium, which drops potassium by itself.

I had MANY night sweats in the two or three years prior to this and NEVER woke up with abdominal pain/spasm or PANIC from them and never experienced heart palps or pounding with it. I would just get up drink something to replace the fluids and go back to sleep. When estrogen drops suddenly, the magnesium is no longer properly retained in the cells and then potassium drops. This is a potentially dangerous situation if it goes on. It involves the unbalanced state of the four critical mineral elements in the body: sodium, potassium, magnesium and calcium. I think it is possible that if these elements are not put back into balance that some physical damage could occur, such as those leading to osteoporosis or heart disease.

The terrible nervous anxiety is no doubt, stemming from this critical unbalance in the elements and the body is SHOUTING "FIX THIS PROBLEM NOW!" The estrogen drops serotonin as well, which leads to increased anxiety/restlessness...sleeplessness, feeling more pain on a continual basis and eventually, panic. These adrenals cannot kick in fast enough or hard enough to do the job because we live in a nutritionally deprived world and our bodies are already, for the most part, adrenally stressed. Pollution and toxins add to our adrenal load. The usual answer when these symptoms kick in is to begin restoring the estrogen in some fashion. Either through isoflavones (weak) artificial estrogens (strong) or BHRT - unknown as of yet for longterm effects. This is short term relief for a potentially longterm problem. Since the ways to diagnosis the critical lack of elements are not readily available and even on hair analysis, though visible in result, little is known how to correct the problem from one individual to the next.

It is the correct and natural process for the female body to cease reproduction and drop the ovarian estrogen level about in half and the progesterone level even lower. It is the natural process for the adrenals to pick up the pace and for estrogen storage to begin in the fat tissue of the body. I don't think the oriental eating of soy is the ONLY factor that prevents their severe menopausal crises but rather, a nearly vegetarian diet that is grown on nutritional soils preventing the imbalance of the critical elements. Same with so called underdeveloped nations who do not experience the diseases processes we do in developed nations. We deal with mineral stripped soils and our replacements are rock minerals that have not been properly predigested by plants, which is how we are designed to absorb them.

Our answer has to lie in remineralizing the soils, eating organic and learning how to test every individual for the critical elements in a fashion that will allow these elements to be restored. Current blood tests are inaccurate for mineral and vitamin assays. So what can you do? I think you can learn the symptoms of the unbalance for each of these four elements and analyze them in your own daily life. As well, if you don't use the proper amount of fiber and water in your diet, at this time it is going to make itself KNOWN in your reduced gut motility. Part of keeping that gut motility up is using probiotics, whether through properly cultured foods or supplements. Drinking plenty of purified water that is NOT contained in plastic bottles is going to help considerably. Research indicates that drinking distilled water removes excess minerals from the body including the arteries. Again, while removing it...care has to be taken to replace what is needed on a daily basis.

In the short run, the rush for estrogen/progesterone replacements is going to make a difference in how you feel but in the long run, they have to be phased out because they place a strain on the body it was not designed to handle at this age. I think overdosing them may result in immune system malfunctions. Again, I intend to use phytoestrogens in moderation during the interim of the sudden drop but I also know they cannot be a mainstay. I've got to find a way to rebalance or balance the critical elements of this physical body. Hormonal candy is not going to do that for me. Last night I created a sort of wierd "tea" for my midnight problem of IBS like spasm that leads to bad dreams, sudden start wakeups, minor adrenal rushes and heart pounding. Here is what I put in it:

1 tablet 200 mg. magnesium glycinate
2 shakes sea salt
1 tablet 595mg potassium gluconate (amounts to 99mg elemental potassium)
tsp natural honey

Pour boiling water over all to equal 8-12 oz. fluid, stir while it bubbles
Let cool

Walk around using high left lift motions (to help gut motility and move air) for about 20 minutes in a easy not aerobic fashion. Sip tea for about twenty minutes, stirring occasionally. Go back to bed. Should restore sleep in about one half hour or less. Ten minutes for me.

I woke up with some lip twitching and knew the calcium was not balanced so drank a cup of milk. I did NOT add calcium to this mixture because it INHIBITS the magnesium. However, woke with no more restless legs throughout the night or muscle cramping. I wish I knew a FOOD that contained this balance of elements that I could just eat as it would be much better but I DONT. For dinner I had eaten grilled salmon, broccoli, baked potatoe and a small dessert portion of ice cream. (Not altogether unhealthy meal.) I am already certain I need to add a higher fiber toward evening. I already eat whole grain oatmeal every morning. I tried soaking it overnight to enhance absorption but my thyroid med went NUTTY and absorbed too fast with that. Back to the phytates!

I think what I will make is a gluten free cookie recipe featuring whole grain oats, flax seed and montina - this will be LOTS of quality fiber. I can add raisins and other fruit if desired or even mashed banana for flavor. Then eat these twice a day between meals for additional fiber. Then I will have to use more probiotic so I am thinking of moving to buttermilk or kefir for my milk source. The milk does me more good than all the calcium products I have used but my stomach has a little war with milk especially at night.

Okay, this is just my update thus far. If it helps anybody, I will be glad.

Just to let you all know, I am still using my wierd magnesium tea recipe listed above along with the PS. Sip about half before bed and wake up when tense, sip some more and back to sleep. WORKS GREAT!

Also, raising my fiber level by going to whole oats and bringing in more evening fiber is helping with waking up without the gut knot. Motility. Anything that causes tension during the day and/or lack of gut motility such as constipation will lead to the bout with the gut knot waking up in pain/panic.

I was pretty sure my periods had ended based upon how I was FEELING but after taking the creams everyday for three weeks, either it brought on a period or whatever.

Later today, I hope to detail my experience in the dental chair yesterday! AAAACCKKKKK!