Hi everyone.

I have seen some terms I am not familiar with. Can someone explain what derealization is? Or disassociation?

THANKS
Maura

Yes, according to Claire Weekes' book Hope and Help for your Nerves, derealization, depersonalization or the feeling of unreality is just too much time spent inside your head. Sometimes those of use with anxiety/depression have a tendency to spend too much time thinking about our favorite subject "me". When you spend so much time in your head, it tends to be the norm, then when you get into the real world, it seems unreal. She says it is just too much introspection. It is a very scarey feeling and one that I am much too familiar with, and even though I've had it a lot, it scares me just as badly each and every time. You're not losing your mind, you're not going to pass out, you just need to get out of your own head.

I would also add that I had a few episodes of feeling unreal--like I was an observer in my own head--during full out panic/anxiety attacks. It lasted about an hour but was terrifying. I thought I was truly going crazy. The symptoms resolved after the panic subsided.

Afterwards, I--of course--researched this on the web and was happy to see that it was not uncommon and I wasn't completely mad. To quote one web site

"Depersonalization is caused by a shift in the part of the brain that provides us with a 'real' awareness of our environment; this part of the brain is directly linked to the Amygdala, the organ in the brain responsible for anxiety.

Terms commonly used to describe the symptoms and sensations of Depersonalization:

unreal
disembodied
divorced from oneself
apart from everything
unattached
alone
strange
weird
foreign
unfamiliar
dead
puppet-like
robot-like
acting a part
'like a lifeless
two dimensional
'cardboard' figure
made of cotton-wool
having mechanical actions
remote
automated
a spectator
witnessing ones own actions as if in a film or on a TV program
not doing one's own thinking
observing the flow of ideas in the mind as independent"

Hope this helps!

Hi Maura,

Boy oh boy can I explain what this is, as well, I'm sure, as many many of the other ladies here, since it seems to unfortunately be a horribly common symptom during peri. (Cindy, feel free to step in anytime!)
If you do a search on these boards, especially under "Am I losing my mind?" or "Am I starting peri?" I'm sure you will come up with hundreds of posts on the topic - several lengthy ones which are mine.

Disassociation is when the mind disossiates or "removes" itself from normal awareness and perception, usually as a definse mechanism when it suffers severe anxiety or trauma.

Derealization is a symptom of dissociation. It's when your perception of the world and your surroundings suddenly feels "unreal" or unfamiliar. Like you are in a dream world or movie and you lose your sense time, memories, feelings, and of the here and now. Things can also appear dark or scary and it feels sometimes like you are under the influence of a drug like LSD (in extreme cases) at least it was that way for me. Another form of this dissociation is called Depersonalization, and that is when you feel like you've lost the familiar connection to your own self, or personality and its like you are observing your thoughts and movements from the outside. These terms are often referred to here as DR/DP interchangeably and I have experienced both of them with DR being the worst and most life-altering of my peri symptoms.

Both of these states most always occur due to anxiety which often preceeds it. Although its a complete mystery to me as to why this actually started happening to me before my anxiety attacks and actually the derealization, for me, almost seemed to preceed the anxiety.
Last year before all this stuff started, I was told by my dentist that I might have some kind of oral cancer, and when they showed me the dark spot on the x-ray (which turned out to be NOTHING but sediment in my gumline!!!!) I fainted in the dr office and when I woke up I started screaming and was inconsolable for 4 weeks until i was brave enough to actually go to my oral surgeon and find out all that fright and worry was for nothing. Doctors just love all that drama, sometimes I think they actually get off on it instead of trying to tell you something positive, they cant wait to scare the ***** out of you. Anyway, at the same time this happened, my period started changing. It went from extremely heavy, to missing one, then almost nothing for months. At first I thought it was the fright that caused a sudden change in my cycle, and looking back I wonder if I had not experienced that horrific trauma, would I have gotten as sick as I did. But then when I started looking back into the past (before the cancer scare) I started counting how many symptoms I was actually having for the past almost 5 years! Back to the DR....for me it came in stops and starts about a month after I missed my first period last December. Then, I went through another mini trauma in feb when I almost lost my fiance, and a few days after that I experienced the worst sensation of unreality I ever had, and to be honest, it's been a very long, frightening, life-altering and the most challenging time of my life since then. I can explain what I went through/am going through in detail, but you can also search my screen name and read everything I already posted about this.

In my websearches to figure out what was happening to me I came across entire websites and communities dedicated to people suffering from this anxiety-related disorder of the brain. The strange thing is its very common with menopausal women, even those who have never experienced it before, and so I continue my search for the "hormonal" component to this that will make it all one day go away so I can have my life back. Maura, I promised you I'd email you later, so if you'd like I will share more about this in PM.

I hope this helped a little. I am so happy that you had to ask about it, because it means you have no idea what it feels like. Thank God! Sending peace to everyone.....Dee

Dear'sissy'

Really enjoyed perhaps that is not the right word! reading the synonyms for this condition.They are very apt..
I think that a lot of us here have experienced these states and yes they are scary but in no way does it mean the person is mentally ill.Sometimes I think the mind is so overloaded that it just goes into a resting stage and lets the person merely observe.
It is so comforting to have this Site so that all of us feel validated and know that basically we all share the 'human' condition.

All the Best
Elizabeth
Of course it disturbs ones feeling of reality but understanding what is happening.
Certain Meds. and Hormones that are out of balance plus Thyroid problems can exacerbate the condition.

WOW thanks everyone. I am sure I haven't suffered this like you all have. I sometimes feel like I am not really in tune with what is going on around me..but I think that is "me only thinking about me". But I think the good news is that occasionally i surface and look around.

DEE..thanks of the reply! I still want to talk Candida!

HUGS
Maura

Dear Dee
It is very comforting to read your explanation of these conditions but am very sorry you had to suffer so much.
Actually I suffered very badly from these conditions on a number of occasions but recently,while receiving Morphine,I thought I was literally on another Planet.
I could hear voices fighting in my head while at the same time knowing what the Doctors and Nurses were saying.It actually lasted a couple of days but as it lessened I explained to the Surgeon what had happenedand he looked at me as if I were a nut case.And kept saying "We gave you Morphine not Heroine"
One of the Nurses comforted me by saying that what had occurred is very common in persons on high doses of painkillers and that many people describe weird states and it is nothing to worry about.So like you I sometimes feel there are Doctors who enjoy the Drama and "It is just that little woman' approach
To give someone a suspected diagnosis of cancer based on a 'black' spot is cruel.It takes one a long time to pull it together.
And yes Menopause is a time when many emotional states are hightened by anxiety and stress..

thank the Good Lord,we have each other to validate our mental states.

Warm Wishes
Elizabeth

thank the Good Lord,we have each other to validate our mental states.

Warm Wishes
Elizabeth
[/quote]


I couldnt have said it better myself!!!

I dont know what would have happened to me without the good women of Power Surge.

God bless you all!!!! and Thank you.....Dee

No disrespect to Claire Weeks (I haven't read her book), but there is a lot more to derealization and depersonalization than spending too much time in your head! Spending time in your own head is the RESULT of DP and DR, but NOT necessarily the cause.

I want to back up for a minute here. I am saying this not as a "professional" but as someone who has experienced this nightmare personally for almost a year. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I think I'm more of an expert on the subject than anyone who has studied or written about it, but hasn't felt it themselves. DP and DR are very hard to describe to someone who hasn't felt it. But generally DP is a feeling that somehow you're not quite "real" and DR is a feeling that everything around you isn't real or is surreal. Many people that experience this though experience both DP and DR, and the lines constantly blur.

That said, there are many reasons that people experience DP and DR. The most common is extreme anxiety/panic attacks. It's my understanding (although I could be wrong) that when this is due to anxiety, the experience tends to be more episodic. Another very common reason for DP/DR is reaction to drugs/medications, especially marijuana, which can cause some individuals to be unable to "come down" after getting stoned. (When I joined the DP self help forum last year, the vast majority of members were teenage boys and young men who had smoked pot.)

However, neurological conditions (especially lyme disease), seizure disorders, other medical condictions and hormonal imbalances can all cause chronic DP and DR. When these are the causes, it's not as simple as getting outside yourself to cure the DR/DP, although it does help tremendously to try to focus on normalizing your life and activities to try to take your mind off of how strange you feel and how scared you are.

In my own experience, I found that trying to deal with the usual "anxiety" reducing medications and methods was disastrous and literally almost killed me, because my DP/DR was triggered by the unfortunate combination of having contracted lyme disease at the same time that I was in peri-menopause. In fact my lyme specialist has told me that the antidepressant that an idiot prescribed for me (celexa) was the WORST thing for someone who had an infection in their brain/nervous system, becuase the AD messes with already out of whack brain chemistry. And while my DP/DR isn't completely gone -- sometimes I wonder if I'll ever really feel normal again -- the main thing that I believe helped was taking antibiotics to get the infections out of my system. I'm now also trying BHRT (I needed estriol only based on my hormone testing which showed high levels of progesterone and normal levels of testoterone), but the jury is out for me as to whether it's working, or if time will just stabilize my hormones (which were thrown even further out of whack by the lyme and co- infections.

BTW, it is VERY common for women going trhough peri to feel various states of being detached, disconnected from their bodies and emotions and to experience DP and DR to varying degrees. For the newer people who don't know what this means, I hope to God that you never experience it, because it can be the most terrifying nightmare you could never possibly imagine until it happens to you. But if you do, rest assured that you are probably NOT losing your mind and becoming psychotic even though it may feel that way at the time. Find yourself a good doctor and rule out underlying medical problems (lyme, hormone imbalance, thyroid problems, etc., etc.). If you feel your problem is truly "anxiety", you might want to consider a benzo like ativan (for me xananx and valium were HORRIBLE, but I realize we're all different), but keep in mind that if your problem is hormonal, the meds won't necessarily do much for your symptoms.

Anyway, just my two cents. To all my sisters...Hang in there, thanks for your support, and let's remember that we're here to help each other through these hard times.

Love,

Cindy

PS I've posted this other places, but here's my description of DP and DR:

For me at it's worst I felt like I was a zombie without eyes stuck in a dark, scary and surreal hell, where I felt like sometimes my head, my hands and other parts of my body weren't really "me" and the world around me appeared dark, distorted and had a nightmarish quality. I remember talking to my therapist and saying that everything felt two-dimensional and that it was like being stuck in a badly edited horror movie where everything I did was disjointed, disconnected and strange. BTW, I'm not crazy, nor am I psychotic (LOL?). I know this isn't what's happening, but that is how it FEELS, sigh...

{{{Cindy}}}

What an amazing, accurate, incredibly well-written post! With no disrespect to Claire Weeks, or anyone here who has a slightly different view of what DR/DP is, Cindy described perfectly what this experience has been and is still for me. At its best, its a disquieting sensation of being hopelessly "lost" even when you are home, with no emotional or mental connection to anything, including yourself. At it's worst, it's like being trapped in hell....like being caught inside the creepy feeling you get when you wake up in the middle of the night from a nightmare and it feels like you are still dreaming, only with DR/DP, you are wide awake and all you can do is pray out loud for the sensation to stop. Sometimes you have a blessed 5 seconds or so where your life comes back, and then, its gone again. Mostly, as others have pointed out this is LARGELY cyclical. I'm just about to have another period and my DR is off the charts today. Its so bad, Im almost becoming physically ill from being in this "place". To all of you who know this pain, whether from peri/meno, or other related causes, my heart and my prayers are with you. To those that are lucky enough to have escaped this hell, I am so happy that you do not have to suffer like this.

God bless,
Dee

/quote]

"No disrespect to Claire Weeks (I haven't read her book), but there is a lot more to derealization and depersonalization than spending too much time in your head!"

I have read all the Claire Weekes books and swore by them for years and never once have I heard her describe DP in that way. How odd that someone would interpret it like that!
Claire Weekes has a no-nonsense way of describing weird symptoms, to reassure the poor person that what they are feeling is normal in the circumstances and that they are not going mad.I would defend her to the hilt!
I had DP many years ago really profoundly, brought on by watching a hypnosis videotape for treatment of anxiety.
I would describe it as a loss of my sense of self.
I knew who I was and recognised myself in the mirror but my sense of being me had completely gone.
It was the most terrifying thing that has ever happened to me-even more terrifying than being diagnosed with my cancer.
I had an extreme form of it and I would describe it as a detachment from myself and the world. Everything felt unreal and far away. I felt as if the intrinsic part of me was in outer space looking down on a robot that was my body.
I really thought I WAS going mad but it was just depersonalisation.
It took me years to get over it and I always had Claire Weekes books by my side to reassure me that what I was suffering was normal in the circumstances.
Thank God for her!!

janet c

Its a fricking terrible thing that i can't really explain, like unfamiliar feeling to me, my bedroom and livingroom seemed dark and dreary.The thoughts I had in my head were terrible.Waking up every morning feeling like someone died. Just feel lucky if you never experienced this.And hopefully it will never come back. The zoloft help it tremendously.

Yes it is very hard to explain and everyone experiences it slightly differently. It can be just a temporary thing for a few minutes or days but in my case it was total loss of myself for several years. I could never believe that there was not something more wrong with me but I saw a psychiatrist who asked me loads of questions and pronounced me sane. He also said because I had been suffering with anxiety for so very long, every bit of serotonin had been drained from my brain so the D/P was my brain's way of closing down so it could detach from all the terror I was in. I must say it didn't work-I was more afraid of the D/P than the generalised anxiety I was in before.
I was reluctantly on anti-depressants because my brain would never have recovered without them. I suppose I had a nervous breakdown-actually caused by the D/P. Not good!
However I did recover in time and if it were to ever happen again I would not be so afraid of it.

janet c

I was going to let this go, but.......I have read both Claire Weekes' books and have a recording of hers on my I-Pod that I listen to sometimes as I walk, just to give me reassurance. I too have suffered with DP/DR for many, many years, and I don't say lightly that "it's all in your head". I feel a bit like some of you think I'm offering advice without having experienced this particular symptom myself, I have. Pass Through Panic is a the recording and Dr. Weekes DOES say that it is too much introspection, that when you are spending so much time thinking, that it is NORMAL to experience DP/DR. I don't know maybe I'm a bit hormonal today, but I am feeling a little understood in my last post!

Hi Jones!

Please don't think that Cindy (or I) in anyway were trying to belittle your own experience with derealization/depersonalization or Claire Weeks wonderful book which has helped so many on this board (myself included!). I PROMISE you that we were not at all implying that you didn't understand or that you had never gone through it yourself. We so appreciate, value and encourage everyone's opinions, feelings and experiences here in dealing with all of these terrible peri/meno symptoms and in fact the only way I think we have survived this far is because of everyone's support on this board. I am so sorry if you felt hurt or misjudged by our responses.

It's just that for Cindy and I, the DR/DP has been our main, most maddening and debilitaing symptom that has literally altered our lives on so many levels that I guess we're both just a little passionate on the subject and had alot to say about what it is. When it first happened to me, I spent weeks researching what DR/DP is because I truly didn't understand what had happened to my brain and after 10 months of this, I can honestly tell you I would rather have the worst physical disease than to endure this for a moment longer.

I know that you did not say "its all in your head" but rather, "too much introspection" can bring on DR, as that is Claire Week's description of why it does happen to many people who are suffering from panic disorders or experiencing severe anxiety. While I totally agree that you can certainly be pulled into a Derealized/Depersonalized state when you are extremely focused inward as a result of anxiety, I also know that there is much much more to this disorder than that and that DR/DP is not soley a result of an anxious state of being.

For me, the DR/DP actually occurred before my first panic attack. I was with my fiance last Christmas driving in my car, on our way to do some shopping when suddenly, the whole world looked as if I just took LSD, or had been poisoned. I literally went from being completely "normal" one moment, to feeling trapped in a dark, surreal, psychotic nightmare. It was the most horrific thing I had ever experienced and from that moment on, I was never really the same. The episodes would come and go like that for months, until I started having panic attacks with the DR, but the panic really only set in after I was already in that state of mind. After one very bad panic episode I was hurled into a state of total DR that has never really left me. In the last few months, I can gratefully say, I have not had one episode of anxiety or panic, and yet this horrible twisted mode that my mind seems stuck in just does not want to go away. Not only does it cause my world to seem "surreal, it has left me like a zombie, with little or no emotions, no memories, and no sense of time. I dont even know how to explain it really other than that its the most insidious thing Ive ever experienced and it seems very tied to my cycle, which means to me that hormones do play a huge role in the "switch" that triggers this condition. There are also many people I know first hand who went into DR/DP state due to different conditions like encephalitis, brain injuries, taking a strong medicine, or even Lyme patients who also get DR and it has nothing to do with anxiety or introspection of the self. Anyway, to make a long story short, I just wanted to let you know that with no direspect to you (or Claire!) at all, DR/DP is caused by many factors and is experienced as different things by different people.

Like I said, Cindy and I are just extremely passionate about this subject because it has been our common experience (our symptoms have been eerily identical from the start) through all of this peri nightmare and I'm sure we could talk about it forever. And while it IS normal to experience DR as a result of anxiety, it is not the way in which we have experienced it, which makes it all the more frustrating and defeating for us in trying to figure out what is causing this terrible thing and how do we get our lives back. So Jones, please don't feel bad about anything we said, or that you said. We are all in this together sharing our stories and our trials and tribulations to the ulimate advantage of helping one another. Please keep posting! And don't worry about feeling a little "hormonal" Arent we ALL?!!!!

With Much love and hugs,
Dee

Dear Dollie Dee, I have been lurking here for months and months--my story is too long and all you lovely ladies have kept me sane. I am living this nightmare too--at 50 years old-out of the blue with NO anxiety at the time--then the physical symptoms started. I have never had a psychiatric disorder in my life--I do not say this with pride--not by a long shot--I have always felt great compassion. I personally know people with schizophrenia and bi-polar but I tell you this and God help me-I mean it-I have a severely clotted leg which I would rather have amputated than this. When you you have your sense of self, your quiet joy, creativity and passion--it is the basic form of existence that is essential to REAL LIFE--no matter what external problems are. Dee, I live in Middlesex County, NJ--if you have even a little time or feel like it-drop me a line at gacsmarilyn@msn.com--if not-no offense at all but I am so desperate to just relate to a woman who deals with this our age. My heart and prayers go to all of us going through this. Love, Marilyn

Well ,, I have had "prince amygdala" go out of whack on me once or twice now .. it just BOOM hits you like a ton of bricks .. one second everything is normal ,, then the next its almost like you've had 20 shots of tequila (without the fun) ,, nothing seems/looks/feels/tastes right .. and it can last for minutes, hours or several days for some,, you can see some bad cases here !!

The DP and DR that I've experienced has lasted about a year! For me it's not directly related to anxiety either, and actually started BEFORE I started having panic and anxiety because I couldn't figure out what had happened to me. Thank God it's getting better, but this is the worst nightmare experience. I don't know what I would have done without the support of women here, especially my Soul Sister Dee who has (unfortunately) had almost identical symptoms.

Cindy

there are so many of us who suffer from this horrible affliction. yesterday, i never left the house due to feeling like i was "on the outside"watching myself walk around the house, cook, go to the mailbox...etc. and this is the worst thing i could do, hide.......it makes it worse...i need to focus on something and ground myself somehow, yet i am too self-absorbed in my own self inflicted hell.
there is so much info. on this affliction, yet the answer lies whithin ourselves, if i could have just taken a walk, i tried and chickened out, i may have pulled out of it.
i've gotten to the point that i can't even call my mother somedays, (she's alone) cause i really don't know what to say, i can't start a conversation.
it's horrid and i've had this for a long time.
thanks for all the insight ladies!

Hi Ladies,

This is by far the most debilitating symptom that I have had of peri/meno. No one can understand what we are going through unless they have experienced it. And, I have never had this until peri. So I know I am NOT crazy. It is just the hormonal flux or loss of hormones one. I suppose our brains are trying to "reset" themselves maybe after being fed that estrogen all these years. Just wish I did not have to go through this h-e-l-l in order to have it "reset"!!!! But, I am determined to get through this. I can live with the hot flashes and night sweats any day, but this symptom is nearly unbearable at times.

If some of you have had the dr/dp and now it has cleared up, please let us all know that someday this will pass. Help us out and give us a little hope.

love you all,
mood_swinger

I had it but it went away ,, Im not post meno .. but what happened is my period came ,, so maybe the hormones evened out .. now Im 58 days without ,, feeling a little spacey .. some symptoms I havent had for a while are back .. but not that one,, I remember taking L-theanine in an effort to help ,, some pain killers (i have vicodin for my arthritus) ,, I remember taking 3 advil and a vicodin ,, then i felt "normal" ,, so must be brain chemestry ,, now I find xanex helps at times .. but makes me sleepy.

I am another one on here who unfortunately can relate all too well with derealization/depersonalization. Although I've had more experiences with derealization, I have also had the terrifying experiences of lack of sense of self or not even knowing if I was real or what or who I was with depersonalization. As Cindy mentioned there is definitely a fine line between the two and most at some point will experience both. Sometimes when I get the DP it will be blurred in with an episode of the DR. The double whammy of both occurring simultaneously can leave your mind utterly paralyzed.

This is definitely the most horrific symptom I've felt as well and extremely hard to put it into terms to someone who's never experienced could even somewhat understand. Yes although we've all suffered this nightmare we do all experience some differences with how our minds alter our state of reality.

I have experienced DR/DP for years on and off...not just only hormonally related but also having BP with anxiety and panic disorder. In my case I experience alot of jame/jaime vus with my DR. These are the exact opposite of deja vus where you'll feel something unfamiliar suddenly seeming familiar as if you experienced before. Jaime vus are the feeling of familiarity turning into complete unfamiliarity...there are certainly no words I can describe of this terror. I can only ask those who haven't experienced to try imaging waking up in your house...all the familiar surroundings, your family, your pets, your neighborhood...not recognizing what/who these familiar settings/people are. I would describe it as a sudden feeling of alzheimer's or dementia which I have not experienced but the similar effects are such...other than the fact that somehow deep in your mind you understand that these familiarities SHOULD be known to you and you then get extreme anxiety/terror/panic as to why they aren't, yet in that altered state nothing can be rationalized.

As for the DR/DP I would describe it similar to the Jaime vus where I'll feel completely detached, not feeling real or that any of my surroundings are real. I'll feel as if I'm a third party to my own existence or when really struck question if my existence is even real. I'll wonder if I'm even alive physically. I'll often think I'm amongst the spirits or living dead in some other realm, dimension, limbo and just haven't found or been led to the light since things are so very strange and unfamiliar me. No I'm not hallucinating or delusional during these episodes either just full of pure terror and unfamiliarity.

I believe most definitely it is a result of extreme anxiety and panic in my case, with hormonal disruptions causing the neuro disruptions or vice versa. They are so intertwined I wouldn't know the exact connections directly but the end result of anxiety and panic is where the DR/DP stems from overall. My most severe experiences have been induced during panic attacks unlike others who had it prior to their panic.

I have taken Klonopin and Ativan (benzo's) which have dramatically reduced these states. I used to take them in the midst of panic attacks and have to wait them out for 15-30 minutes, though in these states seems like forever as you count down the seconds of trying to feel somewhat 'real' again. My new psych doc firmly believes it manifests from severe anxiety/panic as well in my case and told me instead of waiting to take the benzo in the midst of the panic attack to take it as I recognize and feel those surreal symptoms coming on. This has helped keep the DR at bay or even stop it completely in its tracks. For me this has been the lifesaver in helping. Anytime I mess with hormones the DR can emerge quickly so I know there is a definite relation again with hormonal/neurotransmitters.

I think getting our experiences out will not only help others who suffer this to talk about it and not feel alone but hopefully allow those who haven't experienced it try understanding the sheer terror of it, especially if they know of someone suffering it. I do hope ours gets better and would never wish this pain on anyone. I also agree that I could deal much more with any physical illness thrown at me than this torture. As I've said so many times, without your mind you have nothing...

OMG, Although I've been wrestling with DP/DR for a year now, I never heard jaime vu described like you just did, although this is definitely part of this whole nightmare for me. It's HORRIBLE to be in my own house, my own bed, talking to my son, or walking my dog, or doing any one of things that I've done millions of times before and then suddenly I'm no longer me, don't know who or even what I am and feel this desolate strangeness that really freaks me out!

Although I've had terrible anxiety at times with all of this, it seems to me that my anxiety came after the episodes of DP. But honestly, this is so bizarre and has been going on for so long that I don't know anymore what caused what. I'm not even sure if it matters, I just wish I could make it stop.

I do have to say that things are much better than they were a few months ago, in that I went back to work and am doing some things socially. But that odd, disconnected and somewhat distorted feeling is always with me, and I feel like I'm trapped in a different dimension that at times is absolutely horrifying. As you say, it's so hard to describe. But it's kind of like there's no real "me" any more, but somehow I'm some kind of energy stuck deep inside myself and looking out???

Sometimes I think I want to try to find a new psychiatrist and try meds again. But then I get so scared remembering what happened when I've tried before. Although the xanax initially eased my anxiety about all of this slightly, within a very short amount of time it made me feel even more anxious. The valium made me feel stoned, but still incredibly DP'd, and the celexa led to auditory hallucinations that were really frightening. (I started hearing voices telling me I should die.)

Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this message. I'm trying to be hopeful because I'm so much better than I was. But there are times that I get so frustrated and depressed because I can't bear the thought of always being this way. I haven't had a period since September 28 and I honestly have no idea if I'm "done" or not (I'm 52). I only hope and pray that when I do cross over into meno that eventually this thing stabilizes.

Thanks sisters for posting. Although it is horrible we're all going through this horror, at least we're not alone...

Cindy

Dear 'shar'
Thank you for sharing a painfully difficult subject so well.
I too have had moments just like the ones described by many of the ladies and different ones too.
I too have to use an anti-anxiety med. on an as needed basis as the anxiety and panic makes it impossible to calm myself down or rid myself of the feeling that I am not really here.It is very scary.And yes I can almost feel those moments coming on so I do stop them in their tracks.
Good Luck and Love to you my dear and all the rest of the great ladies here/
Thank God we can share honestly and not feel we are so strange or different.
Warm Hugs
Elizabeth

Dear Cindy
No we are not alone and this is what keeps me coming back.
Am so very sorry that you have had bad experiences with Meds.It is sometimes very difficult to find what suits each individual
You are right to stay hopeful as you say that you are much better than you were before
I just pray to God that you continue to enjoy more and more peaceful moments and a better quality of life.
God Bless,my friend
Elizabeth

Cindy & Shar,

I know you both expressed the "jaime vu" feelings, and of course I have them rather constantly. But for me, the DR has always ALSO brought on strange deja vu feelings as well....like a sudden change in lighting, scenery, or especially driving anywhere and watching the road go by, I get these awful emotionally charged waves of sensation like I am in a memory from my past, but the memory takes on a horrific or deeply disturbing feeling like I know Im not supposed to be there, or like my brain is recognizing that its in one place while my body is in another and I feel absolutely horrible. it has also completely distorted my sense of time and normal emotions. The past present and future all seems to blend into each other and there is no separation in my senses of the timeline of my life. This all started in December of last year and when I try to look back on the events of the past 12 months I feel like my brain deciphers it as all one lump of time, I dont remember the seasons coming and going, the "feeling" of Spring, or the balminess of Summer, I used to love the fall and the anticipation of the holidays almost made me feel like a kid again, and now, its just like this bleak strange group of weeks that have no meaning, or any sense of all the things that made me aware of time passing by. Has anyone else ever experienced something like that too with DR?
And has this ever REALLY gone away for anyone? Like Cindy, I just cant imagine going through the rest of my life like this. I am reaching such a stage of desperation.
Dee

Yes, Dee, Once again I'm reminded that we really must be Soul Sisters, as I have experienced THIS too. That's the thing with this madness, i.e., it keeps morphing and every day is different in some ways than the days, weeks and months prior. It IS especially freaky that for me this started at last year around Halloween with having gotten very anemic and being very scared that I was going to die from the anemia (as my doctors implied). And now here I am a year later, knowing what happened but having no real sense of the year passing.

I suppose that it is possible that the anemia (apparently caused by almost nonstop menstrual bleeding was what triggered my complete physical and nervous breakdown, although my present doctor thinks that having lyme on top of everything else was what pushed me over the edge.

I just don't know. But as I told Dee, the other day as I was trying to stick a casserole dish into the microwave the cover slipped off and when it hit the floor it literally exploded and shattered into about a million pieces. I really freaked when it happened...I guess because it fel like that's what is happening in my brain. It feel like I just couldn't take any more, maybe because of years of ongoing stress, pain, fear, anger, loss, frustration, loneliness, so that my brain "exploded" and left me feeling so tormented and lost, and my hormones and my body also went haywire so that my soul is just as fragmented...

Cindy

WOW this thread is turning into a novel of sorts, but it feels so good to be able to talk about this. It's like a form of therapy for me, and in that, is extremely healing. Cindy I can't believe how much we have shared on this journey together...lets pray that the path we are on leads us quickly to a better place and maybe, with LOTS of hope and LOTS of prayers we will be back to our lives this time next year. I think that you are still very much in "the thick" of the hormonal process of peri/menopause and that is why you continue to have the kind of reactions (like with the casserole) that you described above. I have also found myself feeling almost OK at times and thiking, hey, Im gaining ground, only to have a minor thing happen, like dropping something, or taking a wrong turn while driving and I positively FREAK out and am consquently, painfully reminded, that I so do NOT have it together again. Please ladies, keep posting, keep sharing. Lets all keep being here and being for each other. You have all saved what is left of my life. With love always.....Dee

This is when I have the most problems with DR, when I'm driving. I can be on my way home from work and suddenly I feel like its not me driving but that I'm looking through someone else's eyes....it is so unnerving!!...and such a horrible feeling.

jes

Cindy....you know in my early stages of DR/DP as well all do likely, I had no idea what these feelings were let alone how to even go about finding information on it to put a name to it. In my many searches on unfamiliarity, anxiety, panic, feeling unreal and so forth this is where I discovered the 'labels' attributed to these sickening states. I read all I could and of course realized this was exactly what I was suffering through. That is also what led me to find more info on "Jaime Vus" as it listed that as a side effect amongst the other miserable ones so I researched all I could on that as well. I never even heard of Jaime Vus before only Deja Vus though it makes sense there would be the other end of the spectrum too...obviously much less people experience the Jaime Vus. They are also notoriously found in Temporal Lobe Epilepsy along with panic and anxiety disorders and of course hormonal changes.

I wanted to confirm your feelings on the time issue too. You are definitely not alone on that! When I was so severely affected by this all for months before treatment, the hours, days, weeks, months would all blend into together and I had absolutely no sense of time or dates. It was like I was also on a permanent LSD or acid trip (of course I've never even tried this but just reading the symptoms sound like my experience).

As for the meds you tried I wanted to comment that if it was due more to the Lyme's disease I could see totally why they wouldn't have helped you, even making matters worse like your doctor said. The SSRI's like Celexa even though used for anxiety disorders can actually do just the opposite in some people exacerbating their anxiety to a heightened level...especially when first trying it, with too high of a dose or increase with adjustments, or in your case with Lyme only making it worse.

As for the benzo's again with Lyme I could see them making them worse but as for you saying xanax helped a little but then you felt worse I can relate some to that with my ativan and klonopin. Sometimes after taking them to stop the DR, when it wears off the feelings will return and sometimes moreso which could be a small temporary withdraw feeling. Also if benzo's become addicting you can have far worse episodes in trying to wean off of them since your body has adjusted as any other med. I don't consider myself addicted as I really try taking them only as needed...unfortunately my DR would be so bad that would be a daily basis. On my new meds I have dramatically decreased the need for them.

I still do get the DR don't get me wrong I'm not near 100% yet and yes it still is the worst and by far scariest symptom for me, especially I see more of it around my period too. I just try again to stop it in it's tracks ahead of time. I know that for whatever reason it manifests itself whether anxiety, panic, Lyme, thyroid, Cushing's, ups and downs of hormones etc...so many things can factor in that there has to be an answer for us all and difft body chemistries in finding something that will help. There might not be a 'cure' so to speak but if we can atleast get these episodes under some control then that's more than what I could ask for!

Dee,

I'm so sorry but I posted back to Cindy on the time frame blurring issue instead of you! Oh how this just goes to show how my mind still gets jumbled up and probably always will lol! Also I think I'm so passionate on this topic with you and Cindy I get ahead of myself wanting to jump in and confirm all these symptoms we share so much...so please refer to her post I answered about the time issue...you are definitely not alone on that. That's just another thing I forgot to add on mine and many more that come up as I recollect on it which is painful you know.

As for your Deja Vus the way you described I have also felt that too just more of the Jaime Vus. But yes I'll be doing something going along my business and something all of a sudden will hit me like I knew it in my past or like I was even involved with it somehow...almost a feeling of being there in some reincarnated surreal state but not reincarnated meant as in the conventional sense. It's quite scary too and I panic thinking why am I feeling something unfamiliar being so familiar when it has nothing to do with anything. This is so hard to explain too but I know you know what I mean atleast and that is what matters. It's also not so much of the conventional Deja Vu feeling but much scarier, pronounced and cluttering my mind not making any sense...it also lasts/continues for a long time blurring in with my sense of time issue versus a Deja vu that lasts but an instant where you're feeling wow this particular brief moment in time feels like I've been here you know?

Like I said before, you and Cindy and others on this board can take the feelings and put them into words I'm exactly thinking of. I think we can all do that with each other. Sometimes I'll hear something and say oh yea I've felt that exactly too. And although mine has calmed down quite a bit on meds and we have our moments of peace, I'd give anything to know an exact answer to what's going on so that they would never occur again.

Dear Shar!!! You also have an amazing way of expressing the inexpressable. What you wrote above is EXACTLY what im going through, and have been very badly for the last 3 week straight. Last weekend I was at my fiance's apartment and we were cleaning the stairs leading up to our apt from the ground floor when all of a sudden I went into a trance like state where I didnt know where I was, what the steps were, what time or place I was in, I just sort of stared through him and the walls around us because I was suddenly not there anymore. Like you said it was a feeling of not the "conventional deja vu" but a cluttering of the mind thats even MORE pschologically disturbing and horrifying to me than the sense that my surroundings are not familiar. And both these stated come with an eerie dark, foreboading creepiness as well. How on earth this could happen, even how it's biologically able to happen to a person i just dont understand. Like you, Cindy, mood swinger, and many of the others who suffer with this, I would give anything to know peace. Just for a day. An hour. To know what life was like before. Remember when we took it all for granted? OH God I cant believe how I used to walk around and I was home and at peace and that was my life. What am I living now? What is this horror? Where is my heart and soul and memories? I know you understand. i am crying as I type these words. i am so trapped sometimes i feel like I cant breathe, like I want to tear myself out of my own mind.
I know you said you are feeling much better, THANK GOD, but do you feel a return to a sense of time and self? If you can tell me that you do, then I know there is hope that this state truly is reversible. In the last 6 months ive had about 5 brief fleeting moments where I felt "back" but it was gone so quickly. I just need to know if there really is a way back to myself. Thank you so much for posting and for coming back to share your good news with us...all my love always, Dee

Dee....those 'trance' states as you describe are like the worst of the worst of DR/DP because you're trapped not only in the DR but on top of it it lasts so much longer than a briefer episode seeming forever and to me like I'm stuck in this vacuum of some sort petrified when/if I can come out of it and trying to rationalize all at the same time. I think part of the time issue involves how we can even think straight concerning time when it's all wrapped up in the blurry ongoing state.

You know sweetie I have been there over and over again and empathize so much with your tears of pain and questioning how/why this could even happen and why won't it end. I going to do my best with complete honesty in giving you all the hope and encouragement you need on this since you know I've been there and still go through them periodically just not as much nor near as intense.

Before I went in the hospital I had what seemed ongoing DR hours daily, weeks on end pure insanity with it. I had no concept at all of time, dates, holidays let alone hours and minutes. Yes I remember those horrid times of curling up on the bathroom floor hiding under my blanket or retreating to a closet as my refuge in pure darkness to try to escape and shut out the world hoping the DR would atleast abate some. This is when I also found myself taking much more ativan and klonopin to quell the DR but it really seemed at that point no amount of benzo's or anything could make it stop even briefly. It evened followed me into my sleep with horrific nightmares and feelings of unreality which again is something I can't really put into words (you think if you're asleep you couldn't feel these things but I still did).

In the hospital protocol keeping in touch with your sense of self one thing they do is ask you daily what date, month, time it is. I never knew any of this and only sometimes could definitively say what year it was, let alone in my such depressive state did I care. I still suffered dramatic DR in the hospital too not only not knowing where I was at but being in an unfamiliar environment with people completely triggered it more with panic and anxiety. I had wonderful knowledgable doctors and staff helping me along the way. It took a good full month to feel even some depression lift and DR decreasing. The bumpy ride and adjusting to meds that can take alot more time to kick in was scary in itself...as you said I was worried it could make it worse but at that point I knew I needed to try something that could potentially help.

As my mind is settling more and more each day I can't express to you the changes I have seen, also my friends and family confirming it and you saying I don't even sound like I did...because I am definitely more of myself now. I can reassure you the time issue too is no longer an issue. I actually know the date, time every day and moment, it's not a blur at all anymore, I know when holidays are coming up, look forward to them, know times to meet friends, go to appointments...it's truly amazing considering just 2-3 months ago I had no concept of time whatsoever. Again I'm not 100% yet still early in recovery so I have bouts of DR with time blurring but they have so much decreased it's nothing compared to what I went through.

I can't even explain the sheer relief I have in getting better. YES you can and WILL too!!! Listen to me on this...this was IT for me, my last try for hope at what I thought would be a forever torturous existence and I was in such a deep dark place I wanted to go home more than anything. I swear to you I felt God out of nowhere show love and concern and give me this push to give things one last chance promising if I did He would see me through if I mustered up the courage and energy to do my part. No it wasn't easy but the end result thus far has been nothing but a true blessing and gift from Him. I still expect bumps in the road but atleast with my mind back much more I know I can handle the stressors and recognize when my symptoms start emerging though the meds have really kept them away for the most part. I might need adjustments as with any med and that's d**n fine with me if I can keep feeling this peace overall.

YES your time issue will stop, the DR CAN be controlled, you WILL have your life back and you can absolutely make it through this Dee. I promise you this and shared more of just how bad I was and the suicidal ideations of no longer wanting to live a life that wasn't even a life to begin with so that you see if I can overcome that in the severe desperate state I was in I believe anyone can especially you with your intelligence, inner love and beauty and determination to resolve this as best as you can.

Deep down inside a little spark was still lit that truly wanted to live...I just couldn't bear 'living' like I had been. That spark has now turned to a flame and yours will too. But you HAVE to keep seeking answers and continue trying! As I mentioned in another post I know you fear trying something that could possibly make matters worse but you MUST remember those same treatments you fear could be ones that put this nightmare to rest! We have to try many routes, trial and error to learn and figure these things out but boy once we do is it ever worth it. I could barely think like that when others insisted on it but it is so the truth.

I'm sorry this is so long but I want to offer all hope I can to you. Please if you want to call me do so we can talk more. I want more than anything to see you get out of this darkness and do all I can to make sure you do so you can see that life again is beautiful and so worth living when you rise from this horror.

Love,
Shar

Sorry, just my 2 cents.......DP/DR can also be experienced while in psychosis( my personal experience) so it is not always attributed to anxiety. I am not saying that we are in the throes of a psychotic episode.....further from it......but more I always think of the source.....and the source is neurotransmitters......if your "feel good" hormones in the brain are awry, you are likely to experience symptoms like DP/DR.......most of the time it is treated with anti-psychotics.....

But in this case, we are not menatlly ill, so these kinds of psychotropics may not work in the absense of true mental illness.......I now that knowing the source does not necessaily make us feel better, but I always keep a little piccie of my brain in my mind, stroke my chin thoughtfully and say "Dopamine a bit off today, hey? You poor little brain." Yep oestrogen is one powerful little sucker.......

Also, a thought as to why the DP/DR preceeded the anxiety...... some neurotransmitters are regulated by the pituitary, which also regulates the production of ACTH which then triggers a response in the adrenals to produce epinephrine in fight or flight response. So awry transmitters equals awry messages being relayed to the entire endocrine system......I am tired so I hope that made sense.....and I am alos speaking from memory......yep, thats scary..

Take care babe......in stillness,

Michah

Read the book, "Feeling Unreal" by Daphne Simeon..and also know that DP/DR can result, and often does, from pathogenic cause....I had DP/DR on/off for almost 5 years..was sure it was hormones....I'm sure hormones played a part..high cortisol/stress can set off a latent Lyme, or other, infection..but treatment for antibiotics was ultimately what helped.

Thank you all for your very insightful answers. Michah, I believe you are right in the estrogen/neurotransmitter/endocrine link. There are so many things that can go awry, but how to fix it? I have often thought of going the AD/psychotropic route lately as my DR/jumbled mental processing has reached an all-time high, but Aviano's post above is also something to consider as I have late stage chronic Lyme disease which I feel has been exacerbated by EXTREME stress and my suddenly shifting hormones. Maybe I should try going back on antibiotics first? I dont know what to do anymore, but I just cant live like this another day.

Thanks again to everyone....love you....Dee

I have lyme too and, while it's not completely gone, I find that after a six month course of antibiotics, much of the DR has dissipated, although I still feel the DP. (Yes, it's gotten to the point that while I've had both aspects of this, it's the DP that is lingering the longest, i.e., the feeling that I'm somehow not quite real, but just some kind of consciousness looking out at the world, but not quite completely connected to it.)

Then again, over the last few months my periods have lightened significantly to the point where I've only had intermittent spotting every now and then, but haven't really had a real period, except for in September (albeit a very light one). Anyway, it's maddening and I keep flipping and flopping back and forth, so that I don't know what's really causing what any more. And while I do use bioidentical estriol (only) cream, I find that I feel the best the day after I have a half a beer or a small glass of wine. I realize, BTW, that not everyone can drink and I don't feel great using alcohol as a crutch. But after discussing it with my doctor, and after the horrific experience I had with psych meds, we've decided that a small amount of alcohol is far better and I do find I feel somewhat normal after drinking a little bit. It also makes me very sleepy, and as long as I don't have a lot, I fall right asleep and feel pretty good the next day.

Anyway, thanks ladies. I don't know what I would do without all of your support. This past year I really feel like I lost my mind, and for a while, my will to live. But while I'm still very depressed at what my life has become, I do have glimmers of hope, thanks to all of you.

Lots of love,

Cindy

OMG, I spoke too soon. I just got home a little while ago form a very strange evening -- I went to a movie and out for a beer by myself feeling very weird and lonely -- to find that I got my period. So maybe the extra strange weirdness was indeed hormonal and I've been feeling really bad PMS for the last few days???

Anyway, in a way I'm feeling so much better now, just to feel like my body's going haywire, but at least it's "normal" in that it's related to my period. So maybe, just maybe, when my hormones calm down one of these days (or months, or years), I will feel like a normal human being again...

Lots of love,

Cindy

Sissy...I found the website which listed those symptoms of DR/DP. I've heard of the Linden Method before but just found the info again on Derealization Treatment searches. I was curious since you found this list there if you have tried it for your DR/DP or know others who have and if so please expand on your experience in if/how it helped you? TY!

Does anyone know if/how we can edit posts? I wanted to add this in my last one but don't know if we can edit so I'm writing an addition...

I found this quote on there too regarding our concerns of anxiety/panic with the derealization and how we can feel it coming on either before or during a panic attack....

"Depersonalization is a symptom of an anxiety disorder and not a stand alone condition. How do we know this? Because depersonalization cannot exist without anxiety BUT anxiety can exist without depersonalization."

I knew there was a definite link between the two but never looked at it like this...atleast for me this is so true...can't say I've had the DR/DP when anxiety or panic wasn't present somehow with it....

As someone who HAS had DP without anxiety, I disagree with this. It may be true that MOST DP is affiliated with an anxiety disorder, but I personally don't believe that all DP is caused by anxiety per se.

For me when the DP first came on I admittedly was terrified, but that was because I was having horrifying neurological symptoms that had me scared to death I was dying, and suddenly losing my mind for no reason. At that point I tried anti-anxiety meds and they made things far worse, not better for me, which seemed to puzzle the doctors -- who kept insisting the way to relieve the DP was to relieve the anxiety.

For me that didn't work. The only thing that seemed to relieve the DP was taking antibiotics (for lyme), which I did for about 6 months.

I still have some DP, but it is not directly related to anxiety, although at times I do get very frustrated and depressed that I worry it's never going to go completely away...

Cindy

PS I have no idea how to edit posts here.

Cindy...actually I should have been more specific that DR/DP stemming from other conditions such as Lyme, thyroid, cushing's etc. could present themselves as a symptom of that condition. The site I'm referring to is focused more on DR/DP stemming from panic/anxiety disorders and thus their relation to that. I've also had DR that seems to trigger anxiety instead of the usual having it when I am in the midst of a panic attack but still think in my case either way there's a direct relationship between the two. Thanks for pointing this out though....sorry I didn't clarify there.

All I know is that I am just so ready for the dp/dr to go away. And I do not know how to make it go away. I am convinced it is caused by peri because I have never had it in my life until now. I am holding onto hope that it will go away once my hormones settle down.

I just started another period after 4 months w/o one... I am in the midst of peri and all this flux just has to be causing the dp/dr. Please, please someone write in and tell us once all this was over, your dp/dr went away. I am tired of not feeling real.

Thank you all,
mood_swinger

I'm so glad I found this website! I had never experienced anxiety/panic attacks before, but when I got my first one it was BAD. I remember telling my friend as she was driving me to the ER that I felt like I was outside my self everything seemed so sureal. I was so dizzy, nervous, my mind was going crazy. I was unsure if I was alive or if I was actualy dead. It was almost like being in a dream state. When you first experience this, it is completely horrible. You don't know what it is, you think that if you feel this bad you must be dying or there is something terribly wrong with you. My dizzy spells started after being put on high blood pressure meds. I went the the DR and they did EKG. They sent me to the ER because it looked different from my last. After running tests, ER said my heart was fine. A few months later my period started changing and the dizziness got much worse. I ended up in the ER twice in one week. I was terrified. My mother died of massive heart attack at 54, so I think my anxiety/panic stems from that fear. Understanding why this is happening is so relieving. The last few months have been hell untill a friend suggested that I could be having panic attacks and that they could be related to perimenopause. I decaffinated myself and that has helped. I still have anxiety, but no more panic attacks and no more DR/DP. I take lorazepam for anxiety and it helps alot. I hope I don't go through this outside of a panic attack. Dreading what mother nature has in store for the future, but after finding this website I won't be blindsided again. Thank you ladies for educating me. All the DR's certainly didn't.

Dee, just a thought sweet.....can you talk to your doc about Seroquel? As far as I know it does not interact with hormone replacement meds or anti biotics......seroquel is both an anti-psychotic and mood stabiliser. It also has a sedatory effect.......I have tried it myself a long time ago and fond it to be quite good.....on lower doses, it has less side effects than other anti-psychotics and is newer in the market......might help in the interim until you seek out answers for the pathological side(lyme disease).......very good for DP/DR in the presence of dx mental illness......but may have the same benefits without mental illness. Worth a try if you can bear more drugs

Take care babe......big hugs

Michah

Wow! After reading these posts, my question is...do any of you have a medical degree? From someone who has suffered from anxiety/panic disorder for over 30 years and VERY familiar (unfortunately) with depersonalization and derealization, I'm appalled at the casual talk of medications and self diagnosis. You guys should really find a doctor that you trust and follow their advice. Regardless of whether you label your feelings as "mental illness" or not, the treatment is the same.
By the way, Seroquel is not new and I have taken it to help me sleep. I have not found it effective for anything else.

The kind of conversations you are having are dangerous to others on this website. I suggest that you keep them private.

Sorry if this site is scaring you but the whole point of this site it to bring out, share and help alleviate the deep fears and issues that many women
are experiencing at this time of life. For many, myself included, this is the first time they actually feel herd and understood.I don't think it
is necessary to have medical degree in order to show the support afforded here. In fact I have interacted with many who have
such degrees only to left feeling sadly disillusioned. Not everyone has the resources, or ability to seek out and find the "magical doctor"
that can really help them. I have personally gone to the best clinics, and doctors and I am no better than when all of this started more than
10yrs ago. I don't think there is any danger in discussing medications since they are only available (for the most part) through a doctor anyway.
I think it is every ones responsibility to be proactive in their own treatment and to question the outcomes. I personally would never
turn over my life to any doctor without questioning treatment protocols. In retrospect I am glad I did not always trust and follow the advice I was
given because today I would be minus a few parts....
Menopause was kept a big secret for far too long. My grandmothers or mother never discussed it much. Perhaps that is why so little is understood
about it and why the medical profession never gave it much attention as far as research etc. They never realized it was such a far reaching problem in women's lives....and now we are screaming at the top of our lungs for help!


be well be aware

Patty keeping this to ourselves and private is the exact problem we've been trying to resolve for years as soul survivor was saying. Dearest created this website for women to join and share experiences, trials and errors, talk openly about this transition, the ups and downs. Please note she even made forums specifically related to depression, anxiety, and living with mental disorders along with peri and meno so that others could join together and discuss what they've been through. She also has brought in numerous professionals and has archives of medical concerns asked to them.

If it wasn't for coming here and talking with others who shared their experiences and what they tried with treatment as well as what has worked for them I don't know where I'd be now. We all know we're different and others will react differently to different hormonal or psych med treatments, but to listen to what has helped others with particular symptoms has led in my search more to find answers and is relieving to know I'm not alone in this struggle.

I haven't self-diagnosed (I have been diagnosed by professionals with BP) and I don't see anyone else diagnosing others on here...we talk about our symptoms and what we have found to relieve them and offer helpful suggestions that people can choose to look into. As far as doctors are concerned too, yes we should all follow up with competent physicians but I'll tell you alot on here will agree they searched doctor to doctor seeking exactly that, many found they were put on wrong medications or misdiagnosed just as much, and I feel atleast I know much more about myself personally from my own experience and research than most doctors out there.

You can do a search on any of the symptoms you are experiencing and find the exact same answers on the web which I find more 'dangerous' and people apt to self-diagnose versus having a forum where we can discuss our symptoms and what has helped others...all that which can be brought up to your doctor.

I welcome you to the forum and hope you see more as you read through the forums and posts that this site is all about reaching out and offering encouragement and support in many ways. I hope you find it as much of a lifesaver and blessing as most of us have.

Hi Crabbypatty,

No I do not have a medical degree.......but I have 2 years of a science degree and I was dx with Borderline Personality Disorder, Schizoeffective disorder, Post Traumatice Stress Disorder and Agorophobia 18 years ago.......this does not make me an expert. However, I have been on Respiridone, Largactil and Olanzapine in my travels(amongst about 25 different anti-depressants and mood stabilisers) which are high potency anti-psychotics. I have had over 15 hospital admissions with psychotic episodes and more than 10 years of therapy. I found seroquel to be quite mild and whether it works for others is up to them to decide. I am merely sharing experience. And it seems for most of us, finding a doctor to listen let alone trust is questionable......

I apologise if you found my post offensive.......

Michah