@Crabby Patty: I'm sorry if the conversations are making you uncomfortable, but I don't really see how they are dangerous to others. Suggesting that someone ask their doctor about medication based on their own experience is very helpful, I think, especially since so many doctors don't know what to do with women in peri and make things a lot worse for us.

I personally have found this board to be very helpful, in fact I feel like it literally saved my life. I was in such distress to have gotten so sick so suddenly and not to have any clue what caused it or what was really happening in my life.

For me the psych meds that my idiot HMO doctors tried to push on me made things much, much worse for me and I started thinking of killing myself after having auditory hallucinations after taking the AD they insisted I try (celexa). Remember, there are warnings on all of these meds about risks of suicide, worsening depression, etc., etc..

In a sense it may be true that if people keep hearing about meds from others they may feel pressured to take them. But on the other hand, I've learned about treatments here that my doctors never would have told me about that helped quite a bit.

I was diagnosed with lyme disease and have found a tremendous amount of support from others at this forum who have also experienced the havoc that lyme infection can wreak on your nervous system. I think I would have truly lost my mind if I hadn't found others who had been through that nightmare, including the horrific DP/DR which is very common with lyme.

I had never heard of bioidentical hormones either. But after hearing women say how much they were helped by them I asked my lyme doctor and he agreed to have my hormones tested and then write me a prescription -- which I think has helped significantly (although I still have a long ways to go to get back to "normal").

Anyway, I guess I say, "Take what you like and leave the rest". Most of us here are not doctors (to my knowledge) and of course any illness and medication should be treated by a knowledgeable doctror. But many of us have had a difficult time finding doctors that weill really listen to us, and it is very, very helpful to be able to say, "What about trying this or that?" because many doctors simply won't offer that information unless specifically asked.

Cindy

I agree with all of those who posted in defense of this board and how it has been a lifesaver for most of us. With all due respect to Crabbypatty, all of my life my doctors misdiagnosed the ailments I came to them seeking help for and I spent many years suffering because of it. When I first contracted Lyme at 22 and I had multiple neuropsychological symptoms, my docotor wanted to put me on Haldol! I researched it and when I read it was an antipsychotic medication I thought HE was the one who should be taking it. I knew that my body was sick, not my mind, so I spent countless weeks searching for answers until I miraculously was seen by an infectious disease doctor who cured me (at the time).

When I first started going through peri, I knew instantly, this is HORMONES! Had every classic symptom in the book, and once again my doctor told me I needed to take walks in the park and have biofeedback treatements.....ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? In my opinion doctors are increasingly becoming indifferent to patients, not only women but everyone. You see it all the time, all they want to do is write a script, often for the wrong reasons, and push you out the door. They could care less, most of them are garbage, IMHO. You have to spend most of your life searching for someone out there who understands the human body as a whole not just a bunch of parts they can dice up and prescribe pills for. I actually hate doctors, and I would readliy receive treatment from a PS sister over any "medical doctor" anyday. Sorry, but it's true. They havent steered me wrong yet. Thank you all.....I dont know what I'd do without PS!!!! Dee

Hi all I just posted in the worst mental/emotional symptoms my first post, but wanted to add here that i'm grateful for the sharing about this awful state as i have been in it in varying degrees since April and the time warp thing has been especially hard, like the whole 7 months is like one blob of time and i have to work hard to focus on where in the day/week/month i am, and now that i've had to stop work its even more unreal to try to pin down days. And i was always totally on top of time, schedules, organisation...

Hi Everybody,

After having a few weeks that were somewhat better, I am having a really frightening and miserable evening! I just don't get it...What has REALLY happened to my brain??? I just wish I could figure out DEFINITIVELY what led to this. Was it the anemia I exprienced? My hormones? Lyme? A brain insult/injury? Stress? Chemical imbalance? WTF????

As I'm typing this, I just stopped crying. Now my left ear kind of popped but affiliated with a kind of an echoing sound, that also made me feel dizzy. Every day for over a year now I have weird, scary, horrible sensations. In my body, in my mind. Things seem dark and distorted sometimes. Sometimes I feel like my head isn't connected to my body. I feel disconnected, like I'm consciousness trapped deep inside of myself, looking out, but somehow not able to connect. I get odd feelings in my head, kind of like numbness, but not exactly.

At times I can get myself involved with something so that I function normally for short bursts of time. But then others I am so lost I can't figure out who or even what I am and literally don't know what to do with myself. I had an episode like that today where I was leaving work (I can't even believe I'm working!!!) and when I got to my car I sat for I don't know how many minutes and couldn't make myself move. I couldn't figure out what to do or where to go.

I got it together for a little bit after I got home, when I went out to serve dinner for my son's football team. For the hour or so I was there, I was pretty much ok, able to serve out pasta and keep the line moving and I don't think anyone noticed anything unusualBut then I came home and started freaking out, especially after my son went back out of the house, then called me a few minutes later wanting to spend the night at a friend's. I don't know why it bothered me so much, but we were planning on going to his game tomorrow (although he's injured and can't play) and I just felt so alone and like I have nobody any more, not even my own kid, etc., etc..

Anyway, I am so sorry to ramble, but right now I CAN'T STAND this. It's been over a year and I'm feeling like I may never get back to feeling like a normal human being again. What is wrong with me? Help???

Cindy

PS I think at least some of this has got to be hormonal. I'm 52 and my periods have gotten very intermittent. I am just getting over a period now. And while I felt like h ell physically while I had it, mentally I was much better. But now that it's stopping (after about 6 days) I'm feeling like I'm losing my mind again. Will this ever really stop....

PS I think at least some of this has got to be hormonal. I'm 52 and my periods have gotten very intermittent. I am just getting over a period now. And while I felt like h ell physically while I had it, mentally I was much better. But now that it's stopping (after about 6 days) I'm feeling like I'm losing my mind again. Will this ever really stop....
[/quote]


Cindy:
IMHO you should track these symptoms...see if they coincide with the just after your period stage..this is a time that estrogen AND the ration of estrogen to progesterone is larger. If this is always the case, then it may be that you need some progesterone to counter the effects of E. If I remember correctly, you are a Lyme pt..what has been your treatment regimen? how long? In addition to Lyme, the co-infections, particularly Bartonella can cause the types of symptoms that you mention. Has your Lyme doc tested you for Bartonella and if positive, have or will he/she initiate treatment?
Avi

Yes, my symptoms are worst right at the end of my period. But, my doctor insists that my progesterone levels are high and he doesn't want me taking P now, just the E. I think he may be right, because when I experimented anyway with using some P cream I bought over the counter, it almost sent me over the edge with depression. (When I was at my worst I also had been taking P pills and it was really awful!).

And yes, I'm a Lyme patient too. For six or seven months I took mostly azithromycin (I can't tolerate doxy and a couple of other antibiotics they tried). My doctor thinks I've got babesia and bartonella as well and I also for a while took Mepron and another med I can't recall right now. I'm extremely sensitive though and I started having really adverse reactions to the meds -- far worse than herxes -- and he had me stop. He did give me some herbal concoctions that he says his colleague has used very successfully and I've been taking those intermittently.

Overall now I think that the worst of my symptoms are probably hormone, not lyme related, but as I said I really don't know for sure because everything has run together.

Six or seven months on zithromax is really a drop in the bucket with chronic neuropsychiatric Lyme...Many, if not most, people with CNS involvement have to have IV antibiotic therapy. To give you an idea of what is required, I take a pulsed therapy of 3 grams amoxicillin, 1 gram zithromax, and 2 septra 3 days a week...two weeks on/two weeks off..in the 2nd week, also take Metronizadole (Flagyl) to bust up Lyme in cyst form. My Lyme doc is one of the best there is, if not THE best..Dr. Joseph Jemsek. Strong adverse reactions to the meds could still well have been a herx..Initially, I could not take doxycycline (horrible headaches) nor Omnicef..finally settled on Amoxicillin plus the other two. I have been on this regimen for over a year now. Mepron is an anti-malarial and is used for babesia, not bartonella. Typically Levaquin or Rifampin are first line choices for bartonella.

I am all for herbal meds and I am aware of docs who claim that they can treat Lyme without antibiotics and I have to say, I'm more than a little skeptical. Have you seen the movie, "Under our Skin"? read the book "Cure Unknown"? Both can give you an idea of what this horrible disease and its co-infections can do untreated...

Lyme and hormones can go hand in hand to "aggravate" one another..Lyme causes massive HPA dysfunction and the bacteria has a 1-month replication cycle (so it might look like hormones even when it totally isn't). Also, the increase in stress hormones during peri can aggravate Lyme symptoms and invite the bacteria (esp when cortisol levels are higher) to replicate..

Are you using E? when? what type? how does this coincide with your end of period symptoms?

Avi

Avi,

I know you're trying to be helpful -- and you have been -- and I also know that Lyme is horrible. (Yes, I've seen Under Our Skin). But Lyme affects everyone a little differently and I trust my doctor. He has been treating Lyme patients for years in several states and has now joined one of the best practices of lyme literate doctors in Northern CA..

He thinks that I had a pretty bad case, but also that I am very, very sensitive to medications and he is concerned that he doesn't want to push me over the edge. I have taken both Mepron and Levaquin, and both my doctor and his colleagues have consulted and agreed that I can't tolerate them very well, and my reactions were not herx related but adverse reactions to the meds.

While I do believe that the Lyme initially is what made me really sick, I think it is the peri-meno stuff that has been the worst. The combination, coupled with with the stress I've been under (horrible divorce, my house burned down, living with my elderly mother, not having a steady income, worry I can't support my son, etc., etc.) led to a complete nervous breakdown. I do think that the medications that I took helped tremendously with the derealization, but now I think I just need to get my hormones stabilized so I can start coping better and rebuilding my life.

I'm now back to work (three part time jobs) and as crazy as it may sound, I'm better now that I have something to focus on again other than how miserable I've been. I also -- please don't be judgmental -- in consultation with my doctor, have started drinking a little bit of alcohol. And while I realize that may not be for everyone, for me it works far better than benzos or ADs to have a glass or wine or half a beer every few days.

Cindy

PS Dee, you started this thread, but I haven't heard from you for a while. How are you? What's up???

Cindy:
It is great that you have a doc that you feel you can trust..but, and this is a big but, it still sounds to me like you are very symptomatic..which is what I am trying to respond to. Again, certainly peri/meno and stress can cause a lot of what you, I, Dee, and the person that started this thread have suffered..BUT stress and excess stress hormones and their effect on the immune system can also kick off a latent Lyme or other infection. For me, at least, treating the infection was and is paramount..hormones too are a part of what Vliet calls the "the three legged stool". And, it is not just female hormones..thyroid, adrenal hormones (DHEAs, cortisol), testosterone, aldosterone, AND, in some cases vasopressin and glucose control issues are in play as well..

I'm not sure how you/your doc have determined what is adverse reaction and what is herx, but certainly I can sympathize with being VERY med sensitive..I, along with my doc, have had to find the meds that keep me "just this side of trouble" and I had to kiss a lot of frogs before I found something I could take. Even so, my herxes have consisted of near seizures, temps of over 103, SEVERE headaches, SEVERE cartodidynia, SEVERE depression, near Addisonian level cortisol readings, severe pain, and more..I had to tell myself every day that this was indeed a war and while fighting the enemy with a different weapon was an option, retreating absolutely was not.

I also can sympathize with the severe stress that you went through prior to the "breakdown" (I call mine the crash of '04). In addition to severe marital stress(husband had emot'l affair, became first verbally and then physically abusive) job stress, severe Hashitoxicosis/Graves episode, breast cancer scare, uterine cancer scare (including exploratory surgery), placing my MIL in nursing home, immediate family issues, a dear aunt being diagnosed with Lou Gehrigs, tripling of property taxes, loss of my own job (voluntarily initially due to illness the first time and through corp merger/cutbacks the second time), loss of two of my husbands jobs, pet losses (including my own horse getting hit by lightning and the loss of my little Sheltie who was my right arm), knowing I was very ill and going undiagnosed for such a long period of time and the battle that entailed and more. which included the fear, shame, and sadness that went along with feeling that I was losing my mind..

I am still struggling with the hormonal piece..I no longer feel I need estrogen for mood or DP/DR, BUT I have severe osteoporosis in my hips as well as parathyroid issues and am going to HAVE to have the E for bone loss; adding in E is problematic for me and results in elevated testosterone, cortisol and TSI (Graves) antibodies and a feeling I like to call "racing" (feeling of too much adrenaline, high BPs, pulse...). so, still trying to get to the bottom of THAT.

So..I know this dark maze of a forest, this extremely dark night of the soul...I know it well...I don't want anyone here to think that I don't know the absolute worst of the suffering peri and chronic illness and stress can entail. Quite frankly, when I look back on it all, I still don't know how I kept going; just dogged determination to LIVE and to try to find a way to use my experience to help others. I don't come to P-S often and have not ever, I don't think, detailed the horrific hell that I went through from '04 to '09 until now and I'm still not all the way out of the wood. And, granted, not everyone's "way out" will be the same..but I spent 3 years overfocusing on the hormonal part and never received much relief until Lyme treatment..I serve on our state's Lyme Disease board currently and I continue to be stunned at the severity of Lyme and co-infections. I also serve as a co-mod on a women's internet health/hormone Yahoo group and have studied/researched hormones, DP/DR for years now so I also well know how severe hormonal imbalances can be..what I want to make sure you understand is that they are not mutually exclusive..one can aggravate the other. Take my expereince and advice and use it if you want and know that I did not even begin to recover until I "accidentally" received antibiotics for first a respiratory infection and then, a tooth that kept trying to abscess..my first clue that infection of some sort played a major role in the way I was feeling.

Let me know if you have any more questions. I sincerely wish you health, ease of being, happiness, and peace.
Avi

I have a question after reading all the posts........I get these "attacks" where I can be sitting there reading or talking to someone and get this funny feeling in my stomach then get tingly and its like a fight or flight moment but my head goes somewhere else and its like Im having a hallucination.....it only last for aobut 30 secs even though it feels alot longer is this DP/DR?........I have been to many doc and psys. and have had a brain scan and they say there is nothing wrong.......I started getting these before anxiety took over my life.......I can be having a great day and will get one of the these attacks out of the blue......then I can go a week without one......I take xanax daily per my psy.NP........but they dont stop these attacks........so of course Im scared......I have had been check for many things in the last year and everything is normal.......so after reading this post was wondering if these mini attacks with what Im calling hallucinations (which they may not be) or part of the DP/DR thing......thanks in advance Valerie

one other question......could these "attacks" be adrenline Surges?

Valerie:
I'm not sure what you mean by "hallucination"..can you say more? Have you been thoroughly checked for seiures? blood sugar issues?
Angie

What you're describing sounds to me like "classic" panic attack, which can lead to feelings of detachment, depersonalization and derealiation. Don't be scared -- I know it's easier said than done -- but this doesn't sound like anything dangerous. You're very lucky that your attacks only last for 30 seconds, BTW, as some of us feel this way for days, weeks, months or even years at a time. Hang in there, this too shall pass. And please contact me off list if you're interested in seeing an anxiety course that I have in email form that might be helpful. My address is mochadiva36@aol.com.

Best,

Cindy

Angie......I havent been tested for blood sugar issues but I really think that its the problem...doc will check BS when Im in office and it ok so she says its not that.........I had been doing so well and then I started to slip up and started eatting more sugar and added coffee (decaf) back into my diet......I wake up in the middle of the night craving sweets!.......so will really watch my diet and see if this goes away again....thank you for advice.......Valerie

Cindy would these just come out of no where?........I can be sitting calming reading and they will come on and like I said just last for about 30 secs......I take xanax 3x a day because my therapist says this will make them not happen.......Im not anxiety ridden like I was but can take xanax and still have one of these attacks an hour later.......thanks Valerie

Valerie:
I have blood sugar control issues and unfortunately, have to eat my biggest meal at night..and after eating, I get sleepy. From time to time, as I'm watching television, it will almost be as if I am awake and dreaming at the same time...I have a home glucometer and inevitably, when this happens my BG is over 150..sometimes well over. It seems to come and go..BUT, even though I am relatively thin (as is my Mom and she has diabetes), I'm going to have to address my high post-prandial (after eating) blood sugar issues..possibly with Metformin.
Angie

Anxiety courses/Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction can help bear the symptoms and sometimes, even improve them..however, anxiety (if that is what this is) this severe almost always has a physiological base..even mainstream medicine is starting to realize that "anxiety" and "depression" are symptoms NOT diseases or syndromes...Watching when symptoms like this happen (after eating? after coffee? time of day?) can often help with what underlying cause is..

Dear 'scaredvalerie'
The symptoms you describe also happen to me on occasion and it is a scary sensation.I too use Xanax on an as needed basis but sometimes have had to take an extra small dose when faced with very emotional situations.
Am not a Doctor but I do believe a lot of us ladies during this Hormonal roundabout suffer both emotionally and mentally and I really believe it is helpful to share and talk.
Just being honest about certain things that happen to all of us really helps
That is why I like to come on this Forum and read others personal experiences.Then I know I am fairly normal!
So try to relax,dear friend
and if you get more disturbed what about a chat with your prescribing Physician
Warm Hugs
Elizabeth

Hi Valerie,

I'm no doctor, so I honestly don't know what this started happening to you. But many of us going through hormonal changes of peri do develop sudden anxiety.BTW, for me, xanax did exactly what you're describing -- and I couldn't tolerate it. Xanax is very short acting and for some people it increases anxiety levels. According to my psychiatrist and the lyme doctor who is treating me for infection (my lyme infection apparently caused the worst of my symptoms), xanax can be quite awful for some people, and can lead to horrible panic atacks from withdrawal. For me that started happening after less than a month on xanax and it was awful. It really makes me mad that my idiot HMO doc insisted I keep taking it.

I would suggest talking to a psychiatrist, i.e., an expert in psych meds. If it's determined that you really need a benzo, maybe you can try one that lasts longer, perhaps something like valium or klonopin. Again, keep in mind, I'm no doctor. But for me the anxiety lessened, and practically disappeared when I weaned off of benzos, initially worked on "controlling" it through mental excercises, then got on appropriate medication for my lyme infections. I also used BHRT now that seems to help quite a bit too, although for me, while the "anxiety" is mostly gone, I still have lingering depersonalization.

C

Valerie,
I know we talked about this in the past if you can remember. I get the exact same thing only mine starts the minute I open my eyes in the morning. Severe morning anxiety and cannot eat because my stomach is fluttering. But I could be fine one minute and then the next I'll get this flush feeling of intense panic like state. Like you it only lasts less then a minute. Not sure what causes this but I HATE IT!!! It's taking over my life. I'm trying all kinds of meditations, deep breathing, and talk therapy. I'm so tired all the time too. I hope we get the relief soon!!!!
(((((CHAR))))

I've shared this on the boards many times, but will again...

When I used to get panic attacks, they usually lasted 2-3 minutes, and just undid me. They are HORRID. I finally got to the point where I figured out a couple ways to help myself.

1. Kick off your shoes. Something about having feet flat on the cold floor would calm me immediately.

2. This will sound crazy - it's what I did when at the grocery store, or some other place where I didn't want to go flailing out screaming my head off in terror! I would look very closely at the tip of one of my fingers, focus on the fingerprint. Just seeing it just THERE, not morphing into something bizarre, would calm me right down.

I think in both cases, it was a matter of focusing, getting "grounded." I used to fear I'd just spin off into madness, you know?

Just the nastiest feeling in the world. The good news is that I don't get these anymore, haven't in years!

(((HUGS)))

JJ

HI Char......yes i remember that we both had some of the same symptoms........I just hate this one the most.......

JJ......thanks for the helpful hints will give them a try.........but like I said earlier I could be sitting there reading a book having a great day and it just comes out of no where.........It the one symptom that I have left that scares me......Valerie

It was the same for me, Val. I could be anywhere...

For awhile, I became agoraphobic, so frightened of leaving the house and having it happen.

I kept plugging away, and it's easier than it sounds! Truly an awful feeling.

(((BIG HUGS))) - I pray that one day soon you will be done with them, too.

JJ

Cross.........I have been to a psychiatrist and he said its hormones........and I see a NP psychiatrist monthly for my xanax prescription......but I dont think either understand these strange "attacks".........they say menopause does strange things to ur brain........then they give me my script and send me on my way.........Valerie

I've had these twice in my life: immediately after giving birth to my daughter back in 1970 (and they lasted a couple years then), and in peri-menopause (and they lasted a couple years then, too).

Sure sounds like hormones to me.

(((HUGS))), and so sorry you're contending with this.
JJ

thank you JJ.........Valerie