Full Version: THYROID MEDS
I guess Armour is being discontinued for some reason so my DR. is prescribing something else and im afraid to use something else. anyone else here in the same boat?
i was told by 2 pharmacys that they are just gonna be on back order they are not discontinuing armour, but they did change something in the formula and alot of people are getting the bad symtoms back after having things under control , some thing is not right cause no one knows why or if they really are still gonna produce it , who knows !!!! but alot of people ,myself included are having trouble getting the armour, hope it dont last long, one pharmacy told me it should be back in order at the end of sept, idk......
so people are feeling bad since they changed the formula? do you know when they did this? i havent been feeling that great lately. i was told backorders too by 3 different places, but one of them said they arent going to make it anymore and they all told me i had to call my dr. to change to something else. my dr.s office just called me and told me they want me to go on synthroid! im freaking out about that cuz im so afraid of meds. i mean im even nervous about natural meds. do you know anything about synthroid?
QUOTE (sudio1 @ Sep 9 2009, 02:01 PM) 
so people are feeling bad since they changed the formula? do you know when they did this? i havent been feeling that great lately. i was told backorders too by 3 different places, but one of them said they arent going to make it anymore and they all told me i had to call my dr. to change to something else. my dr.s office just called me and told me they want me to go on synthroid! im freaking out about that cuz im so afraid of meds. i mean im even nervous about natural meds. do you know anything about synthroid?
I was just switched to Synthroid by my Naturepathic Dr. of all people. I had been on Armour and Naturethroid prior to the switch. The reason she switched me was to cure my Hashimotos. According to her if I switch to the Synthroid for 3 months it should take care of it. Anyway, Since I have been on the Synthroid I can't really feel any difference between the Synthroid and the Armour. So, Best of luck.
suido1, Armour contains both T3 & T4 medication, see if you doctor will give you a little Cytomel & Synthroid together.
Synthroid is a t-4 medication and your body is have to convert it in to T3. So adding the cytomel may help> but only in very small doses.
They shall be able to figure the dose out taking what your armour dose was.
Synthroid is a t-4 medication and your body is have to convert it in to T3. So adding the cytomel may help> but only in very small doses.
They shall be able to figure the dose out taking what your armour dose was.
Liotrix / Synthetic T4/T3 Combination > just google and found this> wish my doctor would try me on it!
Armour is not exactly being discontinued. Due to FDA issues and also issues with the manufacturer of raw dessicated thyroid powder, there is a current shortage in available porcine/dessicated thyroid product (Armour, Nature-Throid. Time-Cap and other brands). Pts are dealing with this shortage in a number of ways: ordering from Canadian or other pharmaceutical sources, using a combination of T4/T3 combinations, or usuing "natural" products. There is good information at Mary Shomon's about.com/thyroid site. Her blogs include the history behind the shortage, current happenings, and how to cope.
QUOTE (sudio1 @ Sep 9 2009, 01:01 PM)
I guess Armour is being discontinued for some reason so my DR. is prescribing something else and im afraid to use something else. anyone else here in the same boat?
scbev, i have hashimotos too. how will the synthroid CURE that? i didnt think there was a cure. what differences did you notice with the armour as far as symptoms? what about the synthroid? and what dose of armour were you taking?
QUOTE (sudio1 @ Sep 9 2009, 06:01 PM)
so people are feeling bad since they changed the formula? do you know when they did this? i havent been feeling that great lately. i was told backorders too by 3 different places, but one of them said they arent going to make it anymore and they all told me i had to call my dr. to change to something else. my dr.s office just called me and told me they want me to go on synthroid! im freaking out about that cuz im so afraid of meds. i mean im even nervous about natural meds. do you know anything about synthroid?
i was told they changed it in early spring, they claim the main component wasnt changed only the fillers or some thing like that . but alot of people claim other wise by the return of there symtoms.http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/dailyloaf/2009/09/02/dont-monkey-with-my-thyroid/
scroll to the bottom of that page and leave your comment for washington to veiw and maybe change this
I like that, "peri is scary."
The nature docs and integratives like to put patients on armour or naturethroid. Taking porcine thyroid is not much different than taking horse urine estrogen. Think about it. The synthetics are NOW better regulated. When I first began on them 20 yrs ago they were a freaking roller coaster ride. One dose from the next could mean a monster change in your TSH stats. You could fee it, too. Now the production is very controlled as they've realized people who depend upon thyroid meds are subject to whomever produces the meds. The T3 in pig thyroid may not be the same ratio as human thyroid. Most peoples bodies are well able to convert T4 to T3 - the active version. Your body does it daily.
However, owing to digestive/dietary what have you's, some people have a very difficult conversion process which can be aided/stimulated by taking selenium EVERY DAY (selenomax is a good variety.) Selenium aids T4 to T3 conversion. Try to remember that when you take your synthetic thyroid, try taking it on empty stomach an hour before breakfast. Don't take it with juice or milk. Don't take it with vitamins. Don't take it with fiber. Any of those things will affect its assimilation. That is if you are worried about converting or digesting.
If you have my body, throw the rulebook out and make up your own rules. I am a super converter. High acid system, type 0 with celiac. I HAVE to take about 3/4 of my prescribed thyroid dose with FOOD. WITH HIGH FIBER FOOD. If I don't, it overconverts so badly I get chest pain...with tachycardia. If I take it with the wrong stuff, like MILK for instance, horrible indigestion. Once I tried taking T3 (cytomel) and thought I was going to have a heart attack. YOu couldn't get me to take it for any amount of money now.
During my periods when my hormones fall into the abyss, my thyroid meds overconvert because estrogen and progesterone hold T4 conversion in check. They balance T4 to T3 conversioin. If you have too much of either, estrogen or progesterone your TSH stats will go nutzoid. I could NOT take HRT because it sent my thyroid into craziness. Either it was too high (progesterone) or too low (estrogen.) I can use progesterone cream during the periods to moderate this overconversion but I have to take it BEFORE eating.
I will never forget the first few doses of synthetic thyroid I was given. I developed a monster headache within half an hour and it felt as though an elephant were sitting on my head. It was converting so fast it was ridiculous and sent my blood pressure up. The best thing to do when starting a synthetic med is to half it for a few days and then work ones way up to the full dose gradually. In fact, it is a necessity in older or cardiac patients or you can kill them. If you are a very slow converter, you may never have this issue.
I am appalled at the idea the thryoid docs are putting forth of taking an ENTIRE WEEKS worth of T4 (levothyroxine) in ONE DOSE and let the body sort it all out. GOD FORBID! I would be on the ceiling of an ambulance wondering how long I had left. One time I thought a levothyroxine patch would be a great idea, bypassing the digestive tract but I wonder if this would be worse for people like me.
After trying most of the popular thyroid meds I like Levothroid the best. It came highly recommended by a nurse who used it herself and I've had no roller coaster with it from day one and that was nearly ten years ago.
shalom
The nature docs and integratives like to put patients on armour or naturethroid. Taking porcine thyroid is not much different than taking horse urine estrogen. Think about it. The synthetics are NOW better regulated. When I first began on them 20 yrs ago they were a freaking roller coaster ride. One dose from the next could mean a monster change in your TSH stats. You could fee it, too. Now the production is very controlled as they've realized people who depend upon thyroid meds are subject to whomever produces the meds. The T3 in pig thyroid may not be the same ratio as human thyroid. Most peoples bodies are well able to convert T4 to T3 - the active version. Your body does it daily.
However, owing to digestive/dietary what have you's, some people have a very difficult conversion process which can be aided/stimulated by taking selenium EVERY DAY (selenomax is a good variety.) Selenium aids T4 to T3 conversion. Try to remember that when you take your synthetic thyroid, try taking it on empty stomach an hour before breakfast. Don't take it with juice or milk. Don't take it with vitamins. Don't take it with fiber. Any of those things will affect its assimilation. That is if you are worried about converting or digesting.
If you have my body, throw the rulebook out and make up your own rules. I am a super converter. High acid system, type 0 with celiac. I HAVE to take about 3/4 of my prescribed thyroid dose with FOOD. WITH HIGH FIBER FOOD. If I don't, it overconverts so badly I get chest pain...with tachycardia. If I take it with the wrong stuff, like MILK for instance, horrible indigestion. Once I tried taking T3 (cytomel) and thought I was going to have a heart attack. YOu couldn't get me to take it for any amount of money now.
During my periods when my hormones fall into the abyss, my thyroid meds overconvert because estrogen and progesterone hold T4 conversion in check. They balance T4 to T3 conversioin. If you have too much of either, estrogen or progesterone your TSH stats will go nutzoid. I could NOT take HRT because it sent my thyroid into craziness. Either it was too high (progesterone) or too low (estrogen.) I can use progesterone cream during the periods to moderate this overconversion but I have to take it BEFORE eating.
I will never forget the first few doses of synthetic thyroid I was given. I developed a monster headache within half an hour and it felt as though an elephant were sitting on my head. It was converting so fast it was ridiculous and sent my blood pressure up. The best thing to do when starting a synthetic med is to half it for a few days and then work ones way up to the full dose gradually. In fact, it is a necessity in older or cardiac patients or you can kill them. If you are a very slow converter, you may never have this issue.
I am appalled at the idea the thryoid docs are putting forth of taking an ENTIRE WEEKS worth of T4 (levothyroxine) in ONE DOSE and let the body sort it all out. GOD FORBID! I would be on the ceiling of an ambulance wondering how long I had left. One time I thought a levothyroxine patch would be a great idea, bypassing the digestive tract but I wonder if this would be worse for people like me.
After trying most of the popular thyroid meds I like Levothroid the best. It came highly recommended by a nurse who used it herself and I've had no roller coaster with it from day one and that was nearly ten years ago.
shalom
[quote name='frozentundra' date='Sep 9 2009, 09:47 PM' post='308550']
I like that, "peri is scary."
The nature docs and integratives like to put patients on armour or naturethroid. Taking porcine thyroid is not much different than taking horse urine estrogen. Think about it. The synthetics are NOW better regulated. When I first began on them 20 yrs ago they were a freaking roller coaster ride. One dose from the next could mean a monster change in your TSH stats. You could fee it, too. Now the production is very controlled as they've realized people who depend upon thyroid meds are subject to whomever produces the meds. The T3 in pig thyroid may not be the same ratio as human thyroid. Most peoples bodies are well able to convert T4 to T3 - the active version. Your body does it daily.
However, owing to digestive/dietary what have you's, some people have a very difficult conversion process which can be aided/stimulated by taking selenium EVERY DAY (selenomax is a good variety.) Selenium aids T4 to T3 conversion. Try to remember that when you take your synthetic thyroid, try taking it on empty stomach an hour before breakfast. Don't take it with juice or milk. Don't take it with vitamins. Don't take it with fiber. Any of those things will affect its assimilation. That is if you are worried about converting or digesting.
A lot to enhance and correct about this post, so I'll try to be concise. Firstly, it is not just the nature docs and the integratives that recognize the benefits of porcine thyroid. My own dessicated thyroid prescription came first from a mainstream doc and second from an endo. There is a VAST difference between taking Premarin (conjugated estrogens many of which the human body doesn't recognize..thus the problem with increased angiotension, BP, etc.) and dessicated thyroid (T1, T2, T3, T4, calcitonin all of which the body produces and recognizes). Shalom is correct in saying however that under normal circumstances, the human body produces them in different ratios than a pig's body. However, it should be noted that in order for the first drug manufacturer to obtain a patent (human hormones can not be patented), the molecular structure of T4 had to be at least "one off" molecularly from human produced T4.
Deiodinization (the process of converting, which takes place primarily in the liver, T4 to T3-T1) is a highly individualized process that is affected by many, many things. Selenium deficiency (and be careful, excess selenium can be very harmful), stress, disease states, hormone replacement therapy, even seasonal changes are just a few of the issues that one can have.
I agree that that thyroid replacement meds are something that is also highly individual. There is varied success with even different brands of synthetic T4, so trial and error, and careful monitoring of symptoms, results, labs are a must. I have a friend that could not take Armour or Synthroid, but does just great on a combo of Levothyroxine (generic) and compounded T3. Another that did not do well on Armour, Synthroid, or Unithroid but has found success on ERFA's Canadian dessicated thyroid product. I myself do MUCH better on dessicated thyroid as do many. And I have tried combos of synthetic T4 and cytomel as well as compounded T3. And it's not just a placebo effect. My labs show increased Reverse T3 and more importantly, autoimmune TSI and TPO antibody elevations on ANY form of synthetic T4.
Avi
I like that, "peri is scary."
The nature docs and integratives like to put patients on armour or naturethroid. Taking porcine thyroid is not much different than taking horse urine estrogen. Think about it. The synthetics are NOW better regulated. When I first began on them 20 yrs ago they were a freaking roller coaster ride. One dose from the next could mean a monster change in your TSH stats. You could fee it, too. Now the production is very controlled as they've realized people who depend upon thyroid meds are subject to whomever produces the meds. The T3 in pig thyroid may not be the same ratio as human thyroid. Most peoples bodies are well able to convert T4 to T3 - the active version. Your body does it daily.
However, owing to digestive/dietary what have you's, some people have a very difficult conversion process which can be aided/stimulated by taking selenium EVERY DAY (selenomax is a good variety.) Selenium aids T4 to T3 conversion. Try to remember that when you take your synthetic thyroid, try taking it on empty stomach an hour before breakfast. Don't take it with juice or milk. Don't take it with vitamins. Don't take it with fiber. Any of those things will affect its assimilation. That is if you are worried about converting or digesting.
A lot to enhance and correct about this post, so I'll try to be concise. Firstly, it is not just the nature docs and the integratives that recognize the benefits of porcine thyroid. My own dessicated thyroid prescription came first from a mainstream doc and second from an endo. There is a VAST difference between taking Premarin (conjugated estrogens many of which the human body doesn't recognize..thus the problem with increased angiotension, BP, etc.) and dessicated thyroid (T1, T2, T3, T4, calcitonin all of which the body produces and recognizes). Shalom is correct in saying however that under normal circumstances, the human body produces them in different ratios than a pig's body. However, it should be noted that in order for the first drug manufacturer to obtain a patent (human hormones can not be patented), the molecular structure of T4 had to be at least "one off" molecularly from human produced T4.
Deiodinization (the process of converting, which takes place primarily in the liver, T4 to T3-T1) is a highly individualized process that is affected by many, many things. Selenium deficiency (and be careful, excess selenium can be very harmful), stress, disease states, hormone replacement therapy, even seasonal changes are just a few of the issues that one can have.
I agree that that thyroid replacement meds are something that is also highly individual. There is varied success with even different brands of synthetic T4, so trial and error, and careful monitoring of symptoms, results, labs are a must. I have a friend that could not take Armour or Synthroid, but does just great on a combo of Levothyroxine (generic) and compounded T3. Another that did not do well on Armour, Synthroid, or Unithroid but has found success on ERFA's Canadian dessicated thyroid product. I myself do MUCH better on dessicated thyroid as do many. And I have tried combos of synthetic T4 and cytomel as well as compounded T3. And it's not just a placebo effect. My labs show increased Reverse T3 and more importantly, autoimmune TSI and TPO antibody elevations on ANY form of synthetic T4.
Avi
ok im so anxiety-ridden that i cant eat or sleep. i havent felt this upset in over a year. i feel so trapped. i dont want to take a synthetic!! period.im so mad that after i Finally find the right combination of things that let me live my life, something like this happens. i read online that even the other natural thyroid meds are being harrassed so my chances of switching to one of those is not good. i feel like im being FORCED to do something against my will. its taken me 7 years to get to where i finally can relax and wait this nightmare out, now i feel like its all going back to the beginning and i have to start all over again. i am so afraid of taking ANY meds, and like i said it took me 7 years to get brave enough to try the 3 meds that i do take. im also confused about the arour that i do have left, i just got the last 20 pills that the pharmacy had, i read and heard that they changed the formulation of it and people were not doing well on it, but a pharmacist told that the new ones havent even beem put on the market yet. i dont know if i should take these and see what happens or not, but if i dont take anything i afaraid of what that will do to me too.
sudio1 I feel your frustration and understand the confusion!
I have been on thyroid medication for over 20 yrs after having thyroid surgery twice. 2nd time for cancer.
Readings have not been stable since entering peri! Just had my tsh check last week and it has dropped like a rock again!
I totally get what shalom is talking about too!
Plus doctors need to think out of the box.
My last endo wanted to treat me by my free T-4 readings and skip my tsh readings since they are all over the place< I thought he was nuts!
My family doctor said> no way!
But now I'm starting to think he is on to something!
Best thing you can do is find a doctor you trust do your research and work with him!
Can you not get the Armour at all?
I was reading on I think the Oprah thyroid forum about a lady trying to find a thyroid medication for her sister. It had been recalled and no longer made BUT her sister is dying without it!
Some had suggestions maybe I can find the post for you if you like!
I have been on thyroid medication for over 20 yrs after having thyroid surgery twice. 2nd time for cancer.
Readings have not been stable since entering peri! Just had my tsh check last week and it has dropped like a rock again!
I totally get what shalom is talking about too!
Plus doctors need to think out of the box.
My last endo wanted to treat me by my free T-4 readings and skip my tsh readings since they are all over the place< I thought he was nuts!
My family doctor said> no way!
But now I'm starting to think he is on to something!
Best thing you can do is find a doctor you trust do your research and work with him!
Can you not get the Armour at all?
I was reading on I think the Oprah thyroid forum about a lady trying to find a thyroid medication for her sister. It had been recalled and no longer made BUT her sister is dying without it!
Some had suggestions maybe I can find the post for you if you like!
QUOTE (sudio1 @ Sep 10 2009, 01:27 PM)
ok im so anxiety-ridden that i cant eat or sleep. i havent felt this upset in over a year. i feel so trapped. i dont want to take a synthetic!! period.im so mad that after i Finally find the right combination of things that let me live my life, something like this happens. i read online that even the other natural thyroid meds are being harrassed so my chances of switching to one of those is not good. i feel like im being FORCED to do something against my will. its taken me 7 years to get to where i finally can relax and wait this nightmare out, now i feel like its all going back to the beginning and i have to start all over again. i am so afraid of taking ANY meds, and like i said it took me 7 years to get brave enough to try the 3 meds that i do take. im also confused about the arour that i do have left, i just got the last 20 pills that the pharmacy had, i read and heard that they changed the formulation of it and people were not doing well on it, but a pharmacist told that the new ones havent even beem put on the market yet. i dont know if i should take these and see what happens or not, but if i dont take anything i afaraid of what that will do to me too.
Sudio:
Your pharmacist is vastly misinformed. The new med lots hit the parket in the spring. I had my first 'script of "new Armour" in early May. I didn't absorb it at ALL, it was like I was taking nothing...tried upping it and got severe agitation..and ended up having to switch to Nature-throid. Additionally, many many people have had similar problems (I also had severe nausea and I have a stomach of iron). My labs supported what I was feeling my free T3 dropped from 3.2 to 2.7 and THAT was after being on the N-T for a little over a week.
There are many options to getting through this time. Mary Shomon's about.com thyroid site has options and also everyday status. The latest news is that American Laboratories, the maker of the raw product, is upping production. Some people have tried the Canadian Brand thyroid product with great success, have also reported that dealing with ERFA (maker of Canadian "Armour") has been a very positive experience. You might go to ERFA's website (I think it is http://www.erfa.net) and/or call them. If you want to continue on a dessicated thyroid product that might be a way to go OR you can check with compounding pharmacies in your area to see if they have any more supply of dessicated thyroid available.
Avi
Snowmoon:
I agree that working with a doc that you trust is critical. However, you may want to consider doing some reading as part of your own thyroid hormone research..Mary Shomon's about.com has a lot of "thyroid 101" info. In addition, her book.."Living Well With Hypothyroidism" is a very good read. Your endo is at least looking at something besides TSH which is a good start. Free and total T3 AND T4 are considered important indicators as well.
Avi
quote name='Snowmoon56' date='Sep 10 2009, 02:34 PM' post='308697']
sudio1 I feel your frustration and understand the confusion!
I have been on thyroid medication for over 20 yrs after having thyroid surgery twice. 2nd time for cancer.
Readings have not been stable since entering peri! Just had my tsh check last week and it has dropped like a rock again!
I totally get what shalom is talking about too!
Plus doctors need to think out of the box.
My last endo wanted to treat me by my free T-4 readings and skip my tsh readings since they are all over the place< I thought he was nuts!
My family doctor said> no way!
But now I'm starting to think he is on to something!
Best thing you can do is find a doctor you trust do your research and work with him!
Can you not get the Armour at all?
I was reading on I think the Oprah thyroid forum about a lady trying to find a thyroid medication for her sister. It had been recalled and no longer made BUT her sister is dying without it!
Some had suggestions maybe I can find the post for you if you like!
[/quote]
I agree that working with a doc that you trust is critical. However, you may want to consider doing some reading as part of your own thyroid hormone research..Mary Shomon's about.com has a lot of "thyroid 101" info. In addition, her book.."Living Well With Hypothyroidism" is a very good read. Your endo is at least looking at something besides TSH which is a good start. Free and total T3 AND T4 are considered important indicators as well.
Avi
quote name='Snowmoon56' date='Sep 10 2009, 02:34 PM' post='308697']
sudio1 I feel your frustration and understand the confusion!
I have been on thyroid medication for over 20 yrs after having thyroid surgery twice. 2nd time for cancer.
Readings have not been stable since entering peri! Just had my tsh check last week and it has dropped like a rock again!
I totally get what shalom is talking about too!
Plus doctors need to think out of the box.
My last endo wanted to treat me by my free T-4 readings and skip my tsh readings since they are all over the place< I thought he was nuts!
My family doctor said> no way!
But now I'm starting to think he is on to something!
Best thing you can do is find a doctor you trust do your research and work with him!
Can you not get the Armour at all?
I was reading on I think the Oprah thyroid forum about a lady trying to find a thyroid medication for her sister. It had been recalled and no longer made BUT her sister is dying without it!
Some had suggestions maybe I can find the post for you if you like!
[/quote]
Why is Armour so much better than Synthroid? Is Armour made of all natural ingredients?
I have been taking Levothroid, which I think is the generic form of Synthroid, for 10 years. It works for me. My TSH is pretty low, but my T3 and T4 are good. I take 125 of Levothroid each morning. I haven't had big changes since I started peri and moved into post menopause. We increased my dose to 150, but I was having anxiety issues, so we dropped it back to 125. The doctor thought it was contributing to my anxiety. I still have problems with weight gain, but I eat too much! My skin is ok, etc. My eyebrows have about totally lost their color, but I don't think that's my thyroid. I'm 57.
WriterMom
I have been taking Levothroid, which I think is the generic form of Synthroid, for 10 years. It works for me. My TSH is pretty low, but my T3 and T4 are good. I take 125 of Levothroid each morning. I haven't had big changes since I started peri and moved into post menopause. We increased my dose to 150, but I was having anxiety issues, so we dropped it back to 125. The doctor thought it was contributing to my anxiety. I still have problems with weight gain, but I eat too much! My skin is ok, etc. My eyebrows have about totally lost their color, but I don't think that's my thyroid. I'm 57.
WriterMom
Aviano,
do you have any idea what changes they made to the armour? and what are you using now? ive been using the armour for 6 years and ive only been taking 15mg. a day. compared to what some of you are using my dose is very low. btw that website didnt go thru. i called a pharmacy today to see if they could order me some of the naturthroid or westthroid but thay said those arent available either.
do you have any idea what changes they made to the armour? and what are you using now? ive been using the armour for 6 years and ive only been taking 15mg. a day. compared to what some of you are using my dose is very low. btw that website didnt go thru. i called a pharmacy today to see if they could order me some of the naturthroid or westthroid but thay said those arent available either.
QUOTE (WriterMom @ Sep 10 2009, 04:09 PM)
Why is Armour so much better than Synthroid? Is Armour made of all natural ingredients?
I have been taking Levothroid, which I think is the generic form of Synthroid, for 10 years. It works for me. My TSH is pretty low, but my T3 and T4 are good. I take 125 of Levothroid each morning. I haven't had big changes since I started peri and moved into post menopause. We increased my dose to 150, but I was having anxiety issues, so we dropped it back to 125. The doctor thought it was contributing to my anxiety. I still have problems with weight gain, but I eat too much! My skin is ok, etc. My eyebrows have about totally lost their color, but I don't think that's my thyroid. I'm 57.
WriterMom
I have been taking Levothroid, which I think is the generic form of Synthroid, for 10 years. It works for me. My TSH is pretty low, but my T3 and T4 are good. I take 125 of Levothroid each morning. I haven't had big changes since I started peri and moved into post menopause. We increased my dose to 150, but I was having anxiety issues, so we dropped it back to 125. The doctor thought it was contributing to my anxiety. I still have problems with weight gain, but I eat too much! My skin is ok, etc. My eyebrows have about totally lost their color, but I don't think that's my thyroid. I'm 57.
WriterMom
It's really not a question of Armour being better than Synthroid and right now, with Armour's new formulation, I really can not say that I am an advocate for Forrest's product. I DO like, and incidentally am doing VERY well on Nature-Throid, a product made by RLC Labs.
You say you're doing well on levothroid, BUT you're having weight gain issues. If you cut back on food intake, are you able to lose weight in what would be a normal way for you? Why did you increase the Levothroid? weight gain? other issues?
The big difference between any brand of dessicated thyroid and Synthroid is that dessicated contains T1/T2/T3/T4 and calcitonin..all things that your own thyroid, if healthy, would be producing. Levothroid/Synthroid/Unithroid or other ONLY replace T4. For individuals that can convert that T4, that usually works out fine..but there are many, many women (and I am one) that do much better on dessicated.
Avi
QUOTE (sudio1 @ Sep 10 2009, 04:32 PM)
Aviano,
do you have any idea what changes they made to the armour? and what are you using now? ive been using the armour for 6 years and ive only been taking 15mg. a day. compared to what some of you are using my dose is very low. btw that website didnt go thru. i called a pharmacy today to see if they could order me some of the naturthroid or westthroid but thay said those arent available either.
do you have any idea what changes they made to the armour? and what are you using now? ive been using the armour for 6 years and ive only been taking 15mg. a day. compared to what some of you are using my dose is very low. btw that website didnt go thru. i called a pharmacy today to see if they could order me some of the naturthroid or westthroid but thay said those arent available either.
I have some idea. I talked with a Forrest pharmacist twice. They were very tight lipped about what they had done and claimed that they had not changed the ingredients themselves, just the "ratios". However, they did admit some changes and long story short, less dextrose and a binder called microcyrstalline cellulose (which can't be all of the problem because N-T also has it and I'm doing fine on that) There was some emailing going on about change in T2 levels as well and tampering with calcitonin..but I don't know how true that is. Many pts in addition to having absorption issues were having nausea, agitation and more. Try googling ERFA + thyroid and I'm sure you'll find the website. They have an 800 # and folks report that the company is accomodating, forthright and easy to work with.
FYI, West-throid is/was made by RLC and is discontinued and was essentially identical to Nature-throid. RLC goes through a rigorous QA/QC process and I believe is very conscientious about the quality of their end product.
For more on the thyroid shortage issue..google about.com/thyroid shortage/mary shomon...lots of good info there.
Good Luck.
Avi
Aviano,
its strange but i was told that the new formulated armour was put out to the public back in may but i never knew about it, but i have been noticing that ive felt nauseous alot recently and also my anxiety is coming back pretty bad. so im wondering if its taken this long for these symptoms to return? oh and i also notice more heart palps and some diizy spells. i called RLC and they said they are on back-order for 60-80 days because thay cant keep up with the demands now, due to the armour thing lol. but he gave me the number to a couple of pharmacies that might have some natur-throid on hand and the first one i called had some in my dose! im so glad for all this info. on here. im really feeling bad today with my anxiety and heart palps its scary. when i start taking the natur-throid will i feel anything weird from switching? im hoping all i'll feel is BETTER. thanks for helping with this everyone!
its strange but i was told that the new formulated armour was put out to the public back in may but i never knew about it, but i have been noticing that ive felt nauseous alot recently and also my anxiety is coming back pretty bad. so im wondering if its taken this long for these symptoms to return? oh and i also notice more heart palps and some diizy spells. i called RLC and they said they are on back-order for 60-80 days because thay cant keep up with the demands now, due to the armour thing lol. but he gave me the number to a couple of pharmacies that might have some natur-throid on hand and the first one i called had some in my dose! im so glad for all this info. on here. im really feeling bad today with my anxiety and heart palps its scary. when i start taking the natur-throid will i feel anything weird from switching? im hoping all i'll feel is BETTER. thanks for helping with this everyone!
Im just wondering if anyone can tell me what would happen if i were to not take this armour for a week or two and wait for the natur-throid to get here? ever since i took my pill this morning im feeling worse and worse. im actually feeling panicky right now and im getting scared. i just took an ativan but i think i may need to take 2 i feel so bad.
Avi, Why do you think I have not done my research? My case is not so cut & dry!
I have read Mary Shomon books, she's good at selling a lot of books!
She likes to sends people into fear if their tsh is above 2.0? Had mine in the high 20's.
No thanks >I'm not one of her fans!
I have read Mary Shomon books, she's good at selling a lot of books!
She likes to sends people into fear if their tsh is above 2.0? Had mine in the high 20's.
No thanks >I'm not one of her fans!
QUOTE (Aviano @ Sep 10 2009, 03:32 PM)
Snowmoon:
I agree that working with a doc that you trust is critical. However, you may want to consider doing some reading as part of your own thyroid hormone research..Mary Shomon's about.com has a lot of "thyroid 101" info. In addition, her book.."Living Well With Hypothyroidism" is a very good read. Your endo is at least looking at something besides TSH which is a good start. Free and total T3 AND T4 are considered important indicators as well.
Avi
quote name='Snowmoon56' date='Sep 10 2009, 02:34 PM' post='308697']
sudio1 I feel your frustration and understand the confusion!
I have been on thyroid medication for over 20 yrs after having thyroid surgery twice. 2nd time for cancer.
Readings have not been stable since entering peri! Just had my tsh check last week and it has dropped like a rock again!
I totally get what shalom is talking about too!
Plus doctors need to think out of the box.
My last endo wanted to treat me by my free T-4 readings and skip my tsh readings since they are all over the place< I thought he was nuts!
My family doctor said> no way!
But now I'm starting to think he is on to something!
Best thing you can do is find a doctor you trust do your research and work with him!
Can you not get the Armour at all?
I was reading on I think the Oprah thyroid forum about a lady trying to find a thyroid medication for her sister. It had been recalled and no longer made BUT her sister is dying without it!
Some had suggestions maybe I can find the post for you if you like!
I agree that working with a doc that you trust is critical. However, you may want to consider doing some reading as part of your own thyroid hormone research..Mary Shomon's about.com has a lot of "thyroid 101" info. In addition, her book.."Living Well With Hypothyroidism" is a very good read. Your endo is at least looking at something besides TSH which is a good start. Free and total T3 AND T4 are considered important indicators as well.
Avi
quote name='Snowmoon56' date='Sep 10 2009, 02:34 PM' post='308697']
sudio1 I feel your frustration and understand the confusion!
I have been on thyroid medication for over 20 yrs after having thyroid surgery twice. 2nd time for cancer.
Readings have not been stable since entering peri! Just had my tsh check last week and it has dropped like a rock again!
I totally get what shalom is talking about too!
Plus doctors need to think out of the box.
My last endo wanted to treat me by my free T-4 readings and skip my tsh readings since they are all over the place< I thought he was nuts!
My family doctor said> no way!
But now I'm starting to think he is on to something!
Best thing you can do is find a doctor you trust do your research and work with him!
Can you not get the Armour at all?
I was reading on I think the Oprah thyroid forum about a lady trying to find a thyroid medication for her sister. It had been recalled and no longer made BUT her sister is dying without it!
Some had suggestions maybe I can find the post for you if you like!
QUOTE (Aviano @ Sep 11 2009, 08:51 AM)
It's really not a question of Armour being better than Synthroid and right now, with Armour's new formulation, I really can not say that I am an advocate for Forrest's product. I DO like, and incidentally am doing VERY well on Nature-Throid, a product made by RLC Labs.
You say you're doing well on levothroid, BUT you're having weight gain issues. If you cut back on food intake, are you able to lose weight in what would be a normal way for you? Why did you increase the Levothroid? weight gain? other issues?
The big difference between any brand of dessicated thyroid and Synthroid is that dessicated contains T1/T2/T3/T4 and calcitonin..all things that your own thyroid, if healthy, would be producing. Levothroid/Synthroid/Unithroid or other ONLY replace T4. For individuals that can convert that T4, that usually works out fine..but there are many, many women (and I am one) that do much better on dessicated.
Avi
You say you're doing well on levothroid, BUT you're having weight gain issues. If you cut back on food intake, are you able to lose weight in what would be a normal way for you? Why did you increase the Levothroid? weight gain? other issues?
The big difference between any brand of dessicated thyroid and Synthroid is that dessicated contains T1/T2/T3/T4 and calcitonin..all things that your own thyroid, if healthy, would be producing. Levothroid/Synthroid/Unithroid or other ONLY replace T4. For individuals that can convert that T4, that usually works out fine..but there are many, many women (and I am one) that do much better on dessicated.
Avi
Avi:
Do you know if the dosing for Nature-Throid the same as Armour? Does it come in 15mg/30mg and 60mg like Armour does? Looks like I need to find another source too as I am not a candidate for synthroid.
Dee
Wow
this has been a really GOOD Discussion. Wish I hadn't missed it but been so busy with two businesses and family stuff.
Avi, lotsa good info. Did you get it ALL at Shomons site or are you a very avid reader? You sound like a doctor.
I used to correspond with Shomon by email in her early days on the site and in fact, directed her to the med recall list where she began drawing her thyroid recall info. She got so big she didn't need the little people anymore and just stopped responding after a time. Guess that happens.
We did alot of talking about thyroid conversion isssues in those days. The best info I ever got wasn't online or in the dozens upon dozens of medical books I studied, it was from a nurse who was also a thyroid patient. She taught me how to use hair analysis studies to help figure out what was messing up my thyroid. Thyroid has to go through the same conversion process whether your body makes it or takes it in through a drug. Some people need more iodine to convert but maybe cannot handle iodized salt. Some cannot handle sea food or sea base iodine products. I think thyroid patients, especially those that have gone through Graves are rather susceptible to iodine issues. Some cannot use it at all once they have had thyroid disease. Have you found that true?
Using hair analysis you can help determine which of the critical dietary components are out of sync and that can certainly affect your conversion process. Too much sodium? Too little potassium? Not enough iron? Calcium and mag in sync? Are your B vitamins being utilized in your body properly - do you take them more than once a day since they pass through rather quickly? Do you have heavy metals blocking your conversion process either from contaminants you work with, mercury from your fillings. heavy pollution where you live or by drinking tap water? Hey, its not just tap water...canned drinks and some bottled waters are equally saturated with heavy metals. Is the fluoride in your toothpaste affecting your thyroid - that is, thyroid conversion? Do you eat a diet very heavy in goitrogens? Do you drink soy daily? Think it over. Are you putting five to eight glasses of pure water into your body daily to remove the pollutants and help clean your arteries?
Do I believe all of the above makes a crucial difference to a thyroid patient? Yes. Did the hair analysis help> yes, and even my internist doctor used the results. I cannot do them now, they went from forty a test to around four hundred in places.
There is alot more here than meets the eye. If dessicated porcine thyroid has been altered at the molecular level, like horse urine estrogen and yam based estrogen/progesterone are...they are not really a natural product. They may come from a natural source but they have been altered from their natural state. What is levoythyroxine if not a molecularly identical chemical to your own natural T4? Your body produces T4 and then converts it. When it converts it, does it fail to produce the full gamut of essential components? Is every person who takes T4 lacking calcitonin? I've head this argument before. When you take synthetic estrogen you get one component of estrogen. Its a molecular creation similar to but not identical to the full spectrum human estrogen. Heres the difference. The body WILL produce T4 and then convert it through the process you describe. The body will not take synthetic estrogen and convert it into anything. It doesn't even require a liver pass and its off to the races. That estrogen heads for the nearest estrogen receptors as fast as it can in a patch or cream form. If you take the pills and it does the liver pass, you need three to six times more because the body is trying to dump it. This and other forms of artificial estrogen (like the type in plastics) cause breast pain and swelling. Since estrogen receptors are literally everywhere in the body, these synthetics fill them as fast as they can and since the breasts hold a greater affincity for it, they fill up and keep expanding as they are supposed to do under the influence of estrogen and you get breast pain and worse.
The uitlization process is very different between synthetic estrogen and synthetic T4 but they are both manmade products. One of them your body will probably find a way to use efficiently, given that your conversion process is not being hindered by an imbalance of the building blocks it needs to convert. The other is off to the races to fill every receptor it can find. If you keep bombarding those receptors, which is what synthetic estrogens and progestins do, you are liable to cause overgrowth (tissue overstimulation) issues. The reason premarin is dangerous is precisely the reason you stated, it has been altered from its natural state molecularly to resemble human estrogen but lacks its DNA footprint. I suspect that the human body will convert synthetic T4 completely or not at all depending upon the existing chemical profile of that persons body. That is, whether their particular body has the tools required to convert it. However, if they had the proper tools to begin with...why did they develop thyroid disease?
Some people with heavy metal issues and chemical imbalances will required T3. Dessicated thyroid is a lifesaver to those who for whatever reason cannot convert T4 to full spectrum T3.
These are just my random thoughts on the subject. I'd like to hear other peoples.
Shalom
this has been a really GOOD Discussion. Wish I hadn't missed it but been so busy with two businesses and family stuff.
Avi, lotsa good info. Did you get it ALL at Shomons site or are you a very avid reader? You sound like a doctor.
I used to correspond with Shomon by email in her early days on the site and in fact, directed her to the med recall list where she began drawing her thyroid recall info. She got so big she didn't need the little people anymore and just stopped responding after a time. Guess that happens.
We did alot of talking about thyroid conversion isssues in those days. The best info I ever got wasn't online or in the dozens upon dozens of medical books I studied, it was from a nurse who was also a thyroid patient. She taught me how to use hair analysis studies to help figure out what was messing up my thyroid. Thyroid has to go through the same conversion process whether your body makes it or takes it in through a drug. Some people need more iodine to convert but maybe cannot handle iodized salt. Some cannot handle sea food or sea base iodine products. I think thyroid patients, especially those that have gone through Graves are rather susceptible to iodine issues. Some cannot use it at all once they have had thyroid disease. Have you found that true?
Using hair analysis you can help determine which of the critical dietary components are out of sync and that can certainly affect your conversion process. Too much sodium? Too little potassium? Not enough iron? Calcium and mag in sync? Are your B vitamins being utilized in your body properly - do you take them more than once a day since they pass through rather quickly? Do you have heavy metals blocking your conversion process either from contaminants you work with, mercury from your fillings. heavy pollution where you live or by drinking tap water? Hey, its not just tap water...canned drinks and some bottled waters are equally saturated with heavy metals. Is the fluoride in your toothpaste affecting your thyroid - that is, thyroid conversion? Do you eat a diet very heavy in goitrogens? Do you drink soy daily? Think it over. Are you putting five to eight glasses of pure water into your body daily to remove the pollutants and help clean your arteries?
Do I believe all of the above makes a crucial difference to a thyroid patient? Yes. Did the hair analysis help> yes, and even my internist doctor used the results. I cannot do them now, they went from forty a test to around four hundred in places.
There is alot more here than meets the eye. If dessicated porcine thyroid has been altered at the molecular level, like horse urine estrogen and yam based estrogen/progesterone are...they are not really a natural product. They may come from a natural source but they have been altered from their natural state. What is levoythyroxine if not a molecularly identical chemical to your own natural T4? Your body produces T4 and then converts it. When it converts it, does it fail to produce the full gamut of essential components? Is every person who takes T4 lacking calcitonin? I've head this argument before. When you take synthetic estrogen you get one component of estrogen. Its a molecular creation similar to but not identical to the full spectrum human estrogen. Heres the difference. The body WILL produce T4 and then convert it through the process you describe. The body will not take synthetic estrogen and convert it into anything. It doesn't even require a liver pass and its off to the races. That estrogen heads for the nearest estrogen receptors as fast as it can in a patch or cream form. If you take the pills and it does the liver pass, you need three to six times more because the body is trying to dump it. This and other forms of artificial estrogen (like the type in plastics) cause breast pain and swelling. Since estrogen receptors are literally everywhere in the body, these synthetics fill them as fast as they can and since the breasts hold a greater affincity for it, they fill up and keep expanding as they are supposed to do under the influence of estrogen and you get breast pain and worse.
The uitlization process is very different between synthetic estrogen and synthetic T4 but they are both manmade products. One of them your body will probably find a way to use efficiently, given that your conversion process is not being hindered by an imbalance of the building blocks it needs to convert. The other is off to the races to fill every receptor it can find. If you keep bombarding those receptors, which is what synthetic estrogens and progestins do, you are liable to cause overgrowth (tissue overstimulation) issues. The reason premarin is dangerous is precisely the reason you stated, it has been altered from its natural state molecularly to resemble human estrogen but lacks its DNA footprint. I suspect that the human body will convert synthetic T4 completely or not at all depending upon the existing chemical profile of that persons body. That is, whether their particular body has the tools required to convert it. However, if they had the proper tools to begin with...why did they develop thyroid disease?
Some people with heavy metal issues and chemical imbalances will required T3. Dessicated thyroid is a lifesaver to those who for whatever reason cannot convert T4 to full spectrum T3.
These are just my random thoughts on the subject. I'd like to hear other peoples.
Shalom
Lol, those were "random" thoughts?
Yeah, some random thoughts Shalom....sounds more like the words of a research scientist who is doing an in depth study on thyroid disease 
You definitely don't sound like you are one of "the little people" to which you refer!!
Like most of you, I am having trouble getting my regular dessicated thyroid meds. I have been on Nature Throid for almost eight years, and I have been getting my prescriptions filled through Women's International Pharmacy. But last week when I called for a refill, I was told that Nature Throid will be on back order for at least ninety days, and possibly longer. The woman I spoke to told me that I could switch over to Westhroid ( and yet Avi, you said that it had been discontinued) if my doctor authorized it, until they were able to obtain the NT again.
Sudio, I could feel my anxiety begin to rise as I wondered if I would have a bad reaction to this new thyroid med because I had tried so many before I went on Nature Throid. That has been the only one I could tolerate, and like you I am SO afraid of taking meds, even if they are natural.
Anyway, the pharmacist assured me that Westhroid is almost (don't like that word!) identical to Nature Throid, so I figured I didn't really have a choice....I mean we can't just stop taking our thyroid meds. Well, I received my order a few days ago, and I haven't even opened the bottle yet-they are capsules instead of the tiny little tablets I was taking, and they are measured in grains instead of mgs, and it doesn't even say Westhroid on the label...it only says "P-Thyroid". I'm so afraid of having a bad reaction to it. Is anyone taking Westhroid now, and if so, is that how yours is labled too? I have emailed the pharmacist asking if this is truly Westhroid, but he/she has not responded yet. Is this shortage of Nature Throid all due to the change in Armour? Sudio, it IS so maddening and unfair to have to be forced into a certain choice because there is no other option. I hope you do well on the Nature Throid.
Darlene
You definitely don't sound like you are one of "the little people" to which you refer!!Like most of you, I am having trouble getting my regular dessicated thyroid meds. I have been on Nature Throid for almost eight years, and I have been getting my prescriptions filled through Women's International Pharmacy. But last week when I called for a refill, I was told that Nature Throid will be on back order for at least ninety days, and possibly longer. The woman I spoke to told me that I could switch over to Westhroid ( and yet Avi, you said that it had been discontinued) if my doctor authorized it, until they were able to obtain the NT again.
Sudio, I could feel my anxiety begin to rise as I wondered if I would have a bad reaction to this new thyroid med because I had tried so many before I went on Nature Throid. That has been the only one I could tolerate, and like you I am SO afraid of taking meds, even if they are natural.
Anyway, the pharmacist assured me that Westhroid is almost (don't like that word!) identical to Nature Throid, so I figured I didn't really have a choice....I mean we can't just stop taking our thyroid meds. Well, I received my order a few days ago, and I haven't even opened the bottle yet-they are capsules instead of the tiny little tablets I was taking, and they are measured in grains instead of mgs, and it doesn't even say Westhroid on the label...it only says "P-Thyroid". I'm so afraid of having a bad reaction to it. Is anyone taking Westhroid now, and if so, is that how yours is labled too? I have emailed the pharmacist asking if this is truly Westhroid, but he/she has not responded yet. Is this shortage of Nature Throid all due to the change in Armour? Sudio, it IS so maddening and unfair to have to be forced into a certain choice because there is no other option. I hope you do well on the Nature Throid.
Darlene
Hi scbev and sudio1,
I have Hashimoto's also and have been on 75 mg Synthroid for about a year and a half. I've been wondering if I could go off of it soon since my goiter has decreased to half its size (more to a normal size). My doctor has said before that I still have the antibodies and I imagine he will say I'll always have to be on Synthroid. Sudio1, did you go off thyroid meds after the 3 months your naturopath mentioned you'd have to be on it?
thanks
I have Hashimoto's also and have been on 75 mg Synthroid for about a year and a half. I've been wondering if I could go off of it soon since my goiter has decreased to half its size (more to a normal size). My doctor has said before that I still have the antibodies and I imagine he will say I'll always have to be on Synthroid. Sudio1, did you go off thyroid meds after the 3 months your naturopath mentioned you'd have to be on it?
thanks
Dancer,
i was never told id only have to take the meds for 3 months! i was told id have to be on them for life! ive been taking armour for 7 years.
Darlene,
i just took my first nature-throid pill one hour ago and i dont feel anything at all, thank God. i was so afraid i might have a bad reaction, lol. i read online that westthroid and naturethroid are EXACTLY the same thing... and i remember reading that post that said they stopped making it. when i ordered my naturethroid they told me (the lab that makes it) that they were on backorder for 60-90 days due to the high demand now from all the armour users. but they gave me the names of 2 pharmacies that they thought still had some in stock and i called and actually got some. im afraid that when it comes time for my refill they will be out. i sure hope not.
i was never told id only have to take the meds for 3 months! i was told id have to be on them for life! ive been taking armour for 7 years.
Darlene,
i just took my first nature-throid pill one hour ago and i dont feel anything at all, thank God. i was so afraid i might have a bad reaction, lol. i read online that westthroid and naturethroid are EXACTLY the same thing... and i remember reading that post that said they stopped making it. when i ordered my naturethroid they told me (the lab that makes it) that they were on backorder for 60-90 days due to the high demand now from all the armour users. but they gave me the names of 2 pharmacies that they thought still had some in stock and i called and actually got some. im afraid that when it comes time for my refill they will be out. i sure hope not.
i just called the pharmacy where i got the naturethroid and asked them about them running out by the time i need a refill and they said not to worry because they also have westthroid and they dont antisipate any problems. and she sais westhroid is the same as naturthroid. they are only giving out 30 pills to each person right now tho.
QUOTE (dancer5 @ Sep 16 2009, 07:28 AM)
Hi scbev and sudio1,
I have Hashimoto's also and have been on 75 mg Synthroid for about a year and a half. I've been wondering if I could go off of it soon since my goiter has decreased to half its size (more to a normal size). My doctor has said before that I still have the antibodies and I imagine he will say I'll always have to be on Synthroid. Sudio1, did you go off thyroid meds after the 3 months your naturopath mentioned you'd have to be on it?
thanks
I have Hashimoto's also and have been on 75 mg Synthroid for about a year and a half. I've been wondering if I could go off of it soon since my goiter has decreased to half its size (more to a normal size). My doctor has said before that I still have the antibodies and I imagine he will say I'll always have to be on Synthroid. Sudio1, did you go off thyroid meds after the 3 months your naturopath mentioned you'd have to be on it?
thanks
Hi Dancer,
I am just now starting the Synthroid for a 3 month period in hopes of helping with the Hashimotos, then she will switch me back to the Naturethroid I am sure. Supposedly if you are on the Naturethroid and swith to Synthroid for a few months it really can help with the Hashimotos. I will see what happens and let you know.
Bev
Sudio, I was finally able to speak to a pharmacist this morning, and in my case my doctor had actually ordered the wrong thyroid med, a specially compounded one, which I'm so glad now that I didn't take, as I had all kinds of anxiety symptoms when I tried the compounded type before 
I'm happy to hear thaat you haven't experienced any adverse effects from the Nature throid so far. This pharmacist assured me too that Westhroid (which is still being made) is exactly the same as Nature Throid, although in the beginning they were slightly different due to fillers, and I think they were made by a different company. But when Westhroid began to be manufactured by RLC, even though they kept the name, they made it from the very same formula as NatureThroid. So if you do need to refill your prescription before NT is back in stock, you shoud be able to use Westhroid without a problem.
Dancer, usually once you have thyroid disease like Hashimoto's (count me in too) you do have to take thyroid hormone for life, unless by some good fortune, your antibodies disappear, your TSH is consistantly within the normal range AND you have no symptoms! I haven't heard of Synthroid being able to reduce antibodies, but I have heard that about the mineral selenium.
I have a question for all you ladies. The most recent endo I saw claims that there are NO symptoms with Hashimoto's, which she has herself. When I showed her the list of all the horrible symptoms I have had since being diagnosed with H and becoming menopausal, she told me that I simply had an "exquisitely sensitive nervous system". And when I showed her some info that I had printed out describing the psychological manifestations of Hashimoto's, she claimed that the case histories mentioned were "just anecdotal". She totally minimized my distress. So, my question is...do any/all of you have awful symptoms that you think are related to Hashimoto's as well as menopause? I just cannot believe that when something goes wrong with your thyroid gland which is supposedly the master gland of the entire body, that you wouldn't have any symptoms! I do think that the doctor I saw was just one of those lucky people (like the women who breeze through meno) who had no ill effects from this autoimmune disorder.!
Darlene
I'm happy to hear thaat you haven't experienced any adverse effects from the Nature throid so far. This pharmacist assured me too that Westhroid (which is still being made) is exactly the same as Nature Throid, although in the beginning they were slightly different due to fillers, and I think they were made by a different company. But when Westhroid began to be manufactured by RLC, even though they kept the name, they made it from the very same formula as NatureThroid. So if you do need to refill your prescription before NT is back in stock, you shoud be able to use Westhroid without a problem.Dancer, usually once you have thyroid disease like Hashimoto's (count me in too) you do have to take thyroid hormone for life, unless by some good fortune, your antibodies disappear, your TSH is consistantly within the normal range AND you have no symptoms! I haven't heard of Synthroid being able to reduce antibodies, but I have heard that about the mineral selenium.
I have a question for all you ladies. The most recent endo I saw claims that there are NO symptoms with Hashimoto's, which she has herself. When I showed her the list of all the horrible symptoms I have had since being diagnosed with H and becoming menopausal, she told me that I simply had an "exquisitely sensitive nervous system". And when I showed her some info that I had printed out describing the psychological manifestations of Hashimoto's, she claimed that the case histories mentioned were "just anecdotal". She totally minimized my distress. So, my question is...do any/all of you have awful symptoms that you think are related to Hashimoto's as well as menopause? I just cannot believe that when something goes wrong with your thyroid gland which is supposedly the master gland of the entire body, that you wouldn't have any symptoms! I do think that the doctor I saw was just one of those lucky people (like the women who breeze through meno) who had no ill effects from this autoimmune disorder.!
Darlene
Darlene, The recent endo you saw that says there are no symptons with Hashi's, which she has herself, is she on any thyroid meds? I am not any meds yet. My antibodies are in the 200 range. My endo says she is not concerned as they are not in the thousands.
For anyone, If you don't have any symptons, do you need to be on thyroid meds? I do think I have some but when I mentioned some to my endo, she didn't say much. Or she said you could try this but it might make things worse.
At my cholesterol checkup, my cholesterol is up. I read thyroid could cause that. It was up 2 years ago, I got it down. I have been eating anything and everything this past year, too, so that could have caused it to go up.
Thanks, Pam
For anyone, If you don't have any symptons, do you need to be on thyroid meds? I do think I have some but when I mentioned some to my endo, she didn't say much. Or she said you could try this but it might make things worse.
At my cholesterol checkup, my cholesterol is up. I read thyroid could cause that. It was up 2 years ago, I got it down. I have been eating anything and everything this past year, too, so that could have caused it to go up.
Thanks, Pam
Good morning,
my sister had Hashimotos and in fact, so did I for a brief and unrecognized period. That is because you pass through Hashi on your way to Graves. I just felt tired, put on weight, no energy, etc. My sister developed goiter and had a biopsy. She was placed on levothyroxine at a pretty high dose as she had a large goiter and alot of antibodies. Once the goiter diminished she was able to reduce the thyroid dose and continued to do so over a period of about two years until she reduced it to nothing and went off. She had her TSH run frequently to see that it was stabilized.
HOWEVER, in the interim she discovered she was a celiac (allergic to gluten basically) and went off ALL WHEAT And GLUTEN food and drink products. It was the CELIAC malabsorption syndrome that was responsible for the thyroid disease in my family. We were part of a large study that is still being utilized at the Mayo. If you can find out what the base issue is that is triggering thyroid autoimmune disease and get THAT process in hand, the thyroid issue will correct itself with treatment and over time. It requires continual professionaly monitoring during that process and afterwards to assure that the condition is in check.
Hashimotos has definite symptoms if its goes unchecked, like any other disease. Since doctors no longer diagnose by symptoms but by tests, they may not recognize either the symptoms of celiac or thyroid autoimmune disease. Patients are now required to do most of their own self diagnosing, I find, in the modern medical world. I had a heart specialist tell me last summer that doctors today are virtually incompetent compared to doctors a hundred years ago. That is because, he SAID, they are no longer taught to study patients and diagnose using SYMPTOMS, they are totally reliant on modern testing equipment. That accounts for a large percentage of under and overdiagnosed ailments I think. It also well accounts for many doctors disinterest in patient rehearsal of symptoms.
Again, just my random thoughts here...
Shalom
my sister had Hashimotos and in fact, so did I for a brief and unrecognized period. That is because you pass through Hashi on your way to Graves. I just felt tired, put on weight, no energy, etc. My sister developed goiter and had a biopsy. She was placed on levothyroxine at a pretty high dose as she had a large goiter and alot of antibodies. Once the goiter diminished she was able to reduce the thyroid dose and continued to do so over a period of about two years until she reduced it to nothing and went off. She had her TSH run frequently to see that it was stabilized.
HOWEVER, in the interim she discovered she was a celiac (allergic to gluten basically) and went off ALL WHEAT And GLUTEN food and drink products. It was the CELIAC malabsorption syndrome that was responsible for the thyroid disease in my family. We were part of a large study that is still being utilized at the Mayo. If you can find out what the base issue is that is triggering thyroid autoimmune disease and get THAT process in hand, the thyroid issue will correct itself with treatment and over time. It requires continual professionaly monitoring during that process and afterwards to assure that the condition is in check.
Hashimotos has definite symptoms if its goes unchecked, like any other disease. Since doctors no longer diagnose by symptoms but by tests, they may not recognize either the symptoms of celiac or thyroid autoimmune disease. Patients are now required to do most of their own self diagnosing, I find, in the modern medical world. I had a heart specialist tell me last summer that doctors today are virtually incompetent compared to doctors a hundred years ago. That is because, he SAID, they are no longer taught to study patients and diagnose using SYMPTOMS, they are totally reliant on modern testing equipment. That accounts for a large percentage of under and overdiagnosed ailments I think. It also well accounts for many doctors disinterest in patient rehearsal of symptoms.
Again, just my random thoughts here...
Shalom
QUOTE (frozentundra @ Sep 17 2009, 09:22 AM)
Good morning,
my sister had Hashimotos and in fact, so did I for a brief and unrecognized period. That is because you pass through Hashi on your way to Graves. I just felt tired, put on weight, no energy, etc. My sister developed goiter and had a biopsy. She was placed on levothyroxine at a pretty high dose as she had a large goiter and alot of antibodies. Once the goiter diminished she was able to reduce the thyroid dose and continued to do so over a period of about two years until she reduced it to nothing and went off. She had her TSH run frequently to see that it was stabilized.
HOWEVER, in the interim she discovered she was a celiac (allergic to gluten basically) and went off ALL WHEAT And GLUTEN food and drink products. It was the CELIAC malabsorption syndrome that was responsible for the thyroid disease in my family. We were part of a large study that is still being utilized at the Mayo. If you can find out what the base issue is that is triggering thyroid autoimmune disease and get THAT process in hand, the thyroid issue will correct itself with treatment and over time. It requires continual professionaly monitoring during that process and afterwards to assure that the condition is in check.
Hashimotos has definite symptoms if its goes unchecked, like any other disease. Since doctors no longer diagnose by symptoms but by tests, they may not recognize either the symptoms of celiac or thyroid autoimmune disease. Patients are now required to do most of their own self diagnosing, I find, in the modern medical world. I had a heart specialist tell me last summer that doctors today are virtually incompetent compared to doctors a hundred years ago. That is because, he SAID, they are no longer taught to study patients and diagnose using SYMPTOMS, they are totally reliant on modern testing equipment. That accounts for a large percentage of under and overdiagnosed ailments I think. It also well accounts for many doctors disinterest in patient rehearsal of symptoms.
Again, just my random thoughts here...
Shalom
my sister had Hashimotos and in fact, so did I for a brief and unrecognized period. That is because you pass through Hashi on your way to Graves. I just felt tired, put on weight, no energy, etc. My sister developed goiter and had a biopsy. She was placed on levothyroxine at a pretty high dose as she had a large goiter and alot of antibodies. Once the goiter diminished she was able to reduce the thyroid dose and continued to do so over a period of about two years until she reduced it to nothing and went off. She had her TSH run frequently to see that it was stabilized.
HOWEVER, in the interim she discovered she was a celiac (allergic to gluten basically) and went off ALL WHEAT And GLUTEN food and drink products. It was the CELIAC malabsorption syndrome that was responsible for the thyroid disease in my family. We were part of a large study that is still being utilized at the Mayo. If you can find out what the base issue is that is triggering thyroid autoimmune disease and get THAT process in hand, the thyroid issue will correct itself with treatment and over time. It requires continual professionaly monitoring during that process and afterwards to assure that the condition is in check.
Hashimotos has definite symptoms if its goes unchecked, like any other disease. Since doctors no longer diagnose by symptoms but by tests, they may not recognize either the symptoms of celiac or thyroid autoimmune disease. Patients are now required to do most of their own self diagnosing, I find, in the modern medical world. I had a heart specialist tell me last summer that doctors today are virtually incompetent compared to doctors a hundred years ago. That is because, he SAID, they are no longer taught to study patients and diagnose using SYMPTOMS, they are totally reliant on modern testing equipment. That accounts for a large percentage of under and overdiagnosed ailments I think. It also well accounts for many doctors disinterest in patient rehearsal of symptoms.
Again, just my random thoughts here...
Shalom
Good info! Thanks so much,
Okay, I have now been on Levothroid for one month after being on Naturethroid for months. Is it possible for depression to worsen when switching to Levothroid and would it take 3 weeks for a person to notice the difference. Actually It may have been two weeks when I noticed the depression worsening. I am just trying to figure out why the depression is getting worse. I am on 175 mg of Levothroid and just had blood test done and my TSH was at .21. Isn't that kind of low?
I am considering going back to the Naturethroid without the Dr.'s consent because I feel sooooo cruddy.
I am considering going back to the Naturethroid without the Dr.'s consent because I feel sooooo cruddy.
QUOTE (CarolH @ Sep 17 2009, 05:31 PM)
Good info! Thanks so much,
Hi
I dunno what your TSH test ranges look like but on mine .21 would be HIGH. HIGH THYROID not LOW. The usual range is about .025 - 2.5 (although it can go as LOW as 5 and still be considered normal. If mine was that high, I would drop the dose a bit. But again, you need to talk with your endo to find out what their range for TSH is.
Now if you said your TSH was 21.5 I would say thats daggone low.
Your body will NEED three to SIX months at your age to adjust to levothyroxine. During that time I would have it tested every three months. I would do one more testing three months after it stabilized. If you feel crappy, take some selenium with one meal a day. Not a megadose, just an optimal dose. Make sure you are getting B vitamins DAILY and vitamin C (esther C is best at 500 mg. day) DAILY. These things help process T4 or so I was told. Don't take any calcium or dairy products or high citrus juice with your thyroid pill. Never take it with any soy product.
If your TSH stabilizes in the normal range but your T3 or T4 are off with the thyroid panel, time to see your endo. You may need tweaking. That tweaking might include cytomel but don't ever take T3 if you have any heart or high blood pressure issues.
shalom
p.s. a friend of ours had thyroid cancer surgery and was placed on levothyroxine. She was told to take it at night so it would not interfere with her food. She was sleeping so horrible I told her to take it first thing in the AM before breakfast (or with if your body is a fast converter.) That cured her sleep problem!
QUOTE (frozentundra @ Sep 18 2009, 06:17 PM)
Hi
I dunno what your TSH test ranges look like but on mine .21 would be HIGH. HIGH THYROID not LOW. The usual range is about .025 - 2.5 (although it can go as LOW as 5 and still be considered normal. If mine was that high, I would drop the dose a bit. But again, you need to talk with your endo to find out what their range for TSH is.
Now if you said your TSH was 21.5 I would say thats daggone low.
Your body will NEED three to SIX months at your age to adjust to levothyroxine. During that time I would have it tested every three months. I would do one more testing three months after it stabilized. If you feel crappy, take some selenium with one meal a day. Not a megadose, just an optimal dose. Make sure you are getting B vitamins DAILY and vitamin C (esther C is best at 500 mg. day) DAILY. These things help process T4 or so I was told. Don't take any calcium or dairy products or high citrus juice with your thyroid pill. Never take it with any soy product.
If your TSH stabilizes in the normal range but your T3 or T4 are off with the thyroid panel, time to see your endo. You may need tweaking. That tweaking might include cytomel but don't ever take T3 if you have any heart or high blood pressure issues.
shalom
p.s. a friend of ours had thyroid cancer surgery and was placed on levothyroxine. She was told to take it at night so it would not interfere with her food. She was sleeping so horrible I told her to take it first thing in the AM before breakfast (or with if your body is a fast converter.) That cured her sleep problem!
I dunno what your TSH test ranges look like but on mine .21 would be HIGH. HIGH THYROID not LOW. The usual range is about .025 - 2.5 (although it can go as LOW as 5 and still be considered normal. If mine was that high, I would drop the dose a bit. But again, you need to talk with your endo to find out what their range for TSH is.
Now if you said your TSH was 21.5 I would say thats daggone low.
Your body will NEED three to SIX months at your age to adjust to levothyroxine. During that time I would have it tested every three months. I would do one more testing three months after it stabilized. If you feel crappy, take some selenium with one meal a day. Not a megadose, just an optimal dose. Make sure you are getting B vitamins DAILY and vitamin C (esther C is best at 500 mg. day) DAILY. These things help process T4 or so I was told. Don't take any calcium or dairy products or high citrus juice with your thyroid pill. Never take it with any soy product.
If your TSH stabilizes in the normal range but your T3 or T4 are off with the thyroid panel, time to see your endo. You may need tweaking. That tweaking might include cytomel but don't ever take T3 if you have any heart or high blood pressure issues.
shalom
p.s. a friend of ours had thyroid cancer surgery and was placed on levothyroxine. She was told to take it at night so it would not interfere with her food. She was sleeping so horrible I told her to take it first thing in the AM before breakfast (or with if your body is a fast converter.) That cured her sleep problem!
You are right. I meant to say that the number is low, which means hyper. My T4 number is also high and T3 is in the normal range. My Endo's office called and told me to skip one pill a week until I see her which is in two weeks.
What is so strange about this is that my Naturepathic Dr. uses the Thyroflex machine to test my thyroid and last time she tested me she said she might have to increase the dosage of levothyroid. Do you know anything about the Thyroflex machine? They use it also in my Hormone Doc's office. Not to sure about its accuracy now.
Thanks
Bev
Pam, I don't believe the endo I saw is taking any meds, so apparently her Hashi either wasn't that bad or it is no longer detectable. I have read that even though your antibodies are low, you can still have uncomfortable symptoms, and when they are high, you may not have any symptoms. My antibodies are in the high thousands, and while my TSH is in a so called normal range (1. ) right now, she did not suggest that I need to have it tested every six months or so even though from past labs, I know that my values tend to be all over the place from month to month, and I believe that I would benefit from having my thyroid meds adjusted accordingly. Sometimes when I am feeling hyper, I will just cut down my dose on my own.
scbev, at .21, it seems that you might be having to deal with hyper-thyroid symptoms. I personally would ask to be put back on Naturethroid, but if your doctor won't agree, maybe you could just have your naturopath prescribe it for you. You know your body better than anyone else, and if you instinctively know that the levothyroxine is making you feel worse, then you have every right to switch back to the dessicated brand of thyroid. I have never heard of a Thyroflex machine. What is it and how does it measure TSH? As Shalom suggested, I take vitamin C daily. The brand I use is Alive Whole Foods C by Nature's Way, which is naturally buffered just like the esther C. I take 500mg twice a day. I have taken selenium with Vit E in the past, but I'm not sure if it had any affect on my antibody levels.
Shalom, I was tested for celiac on the recommendation of my acupuncturist, and it was negative. While I was happy about that, I am still left wondering what the root cause of my autoimmune disorder is, and why my antibodies never drop below 1000, even though I am on thyroid meds, and taking what I believe are all the right supplements. But then according to the endo, none of it matters as long as my TSH is in the normal range. Easy for her to say! It is difficult to find a doctor who does not minimize your symptoms, and who is willing to do some dectective work to find out what is really going on in our bodies.
Darlene
scbev, at .21, it seems that you might be having to deal with hyper-thyroid symptoms. I personally would ask to be put back on Naturethroid, but if your doctor won't agree, maybe you could just have your naturopath prescribe it for you. You know your body better than anyone else, and if you instinctively know that the levothyroxine is making you feel worse, then you have every right to switch back to the dessicated brand of thyroid. I have never heard of a Thyroflex machine. What is it and how does it measure TSH? As Shalom suggested, I take vitamin C daily. The brand I use is Alive Whole Foods C by Nature's Way, which is naturally buffered just like the esther C. I take 500mg twice a day. I have taken selenium with Vit E in the past, but I'm not sure if it had any affect on my antibody levels.
Shalom, I was tested for celiac on the recommendation of my acupuncturist, and it was negative. While I was happy about that, I am still left wondering what the root cause of my autoimmune disorder is, and why my antibodies never drop below 1000, even though I am on thyroid meds, and taking what I believe are all the right supplements. But then according to the endo, none of it matters as long as my TSH is in the normal range. Easy for her to say! It is difficult to find a doctor who does not minimize your symptoms, and who is willing to do some dectective work to find out what is really going on in our bodies.
Darlene
HI
dunno if this will help or not but autoimmunity is like an inflammatory reaction somewhere in the body that causes your defense cells to react to organs or other body tissue as if they were a virus or disease process. Something in those Tcells causes them to focus on thyroid cells...is it the iodine factor? I wonder because iodine is a heavy metal. I have read that certain virus components are drawn to the heavy metal in iodine/iron, etc. The disease research community knows that a virus process can lead to thyroid disease. That is, thyroid autoimmunity disease. Sometimes they ask the patient to recall any virus process they had before their thyroid went haywire.
So one way to narrow this process down is to ELIMINATE. Literally and calculatively.
What heavy metals are we intaking? (pollution, breathing polluted fume laden air) (household chemicals, lawn chemical, chemicals in laundry soap, dryer sheets, hair, nail and body products) (chemical in a work situation) (chemicals in tap water and pop) (chemicals in treated and processed foods) (smoking contains lotsa heavy metals)
If the theory is correct and virus is drawn to heavy metal particulate, these chemicals - esp. petroleum based) will be attracted to the heavy metals present in your own body. They could, in fact, be responsible for virus gaining a foothold in the human body. Put it together.
Go through a heavy metal cleanse, pick one that is very well documented for safety. I also stringently avoid those liquid mineral formulation because ALL of them contain heavy metal particulate.
Your fillings if silver contain heavy metals. Consider replacing them with composite instead. (I did this on one whole side of my mouth without using any numbing agent and it went fine. Just do a couple at a time and give yourself a three month break in between.)
Some household paints contain heavy metals and/or their pigments. Pay more to choose the NO VOC and safe pigment paints. You can choose hardwood and tile floors in place of carpeting which is chock full of chemicals.
Drink distilled water or reverse osmosis for at least ONE YEAR to help remove heavy metals from your body. Taking antioxidants is great but eating them in foods is BETTER. Lots of citrus fruit, nuts, whole grains and especially vegetables. Meats all contain a certain degree of heavy metals and estrogenic chemicals regardless of how they are raised. Eggs may be better for you than meat and beans are a very GOOD source of protein and useful for bodily cleansing.
If you can FAST, try a juice or vegetable juice fast one day a week. Some people do a water fast once a week, if you are physically able, GREAT. IF not, do what you can do to give the digestive tract a day of catching up, as it were.
Some forms of calcium and cal/mag are very poorly utilized in the body and also contain heavy metal particulate...in fact, I suspect ALL forms of cal/mag outside of veggie consumption are very poor subsitutes. But we have to get it somewhere and milk because of its high protein content uses up nearly as much of the cal in it as it could offer. Suggestion: eat a bowl of home made veggie soup once a day. Gather up whatever veggies are ripe each week, clean them, put them in pure distilled water with onions and garlic and bring to a boil. Reduce to simmer for 3 hours. Should you add meat? Up to you, an organic meat bone would be better. Herb seasonings? YES.
Healthy exercise where you breathe deeply and regularly (sweating is not as important as breathing because you sweat when you breathe through your mouth and nose and some people NEVER sweat hard no matter HOW they excercise.) I don't beleive in ANY form of exercise that you cannot talk and do at the same time. If you cannot breathe well enough to talk you are exercising too hard. Do your exercise away from traffic and other pollutants.
This is not your answer, I know. It's just one way through the maze....
shalom
dunno if this will help or not but autoimmunity is like an inflammatory reaction somewhere in the body that causes your defense cells to react to organs or other body tissue as if they were a virus or disease process. Something in those Tcells causes them to focus on thyroid cells...is it the iodine factor? I wonder because iodine is a heavy metal. I have read that certain virus components are drawn to the heavy metal in iodine/iron, etc. The disease research community knows that a virus process can lead to thyroid disease. That is, thyroid autoimmunity disease. Sometimes they ask the patient to recall any virus process they had before their thyroid went haywire.
So one way to narrow this process down is to ELIMINATE. Literally and calculatively.
What heavy metals are we intaking? (pollution, breathing polluted fume laden air) (household chemicals, lawn chemical, chemicals in laundry soap, dryer sheets, hair, nail and body products) (chemical in a work situation) (chemicals in tap water and pop) (chemicals in treated and processed foods) (smoking contains lotsa heavy metals)
If the theory is correct and virus is drawn to heavy metal particulate, these chemicals - esp. petroleum based) will be attracted to the heavy metals present in your own body. They could, in fact, be responsible for virus gaining a foothold in the human body. Put it together.
Go through a heavy metal cleanse, pick one that is very well documented for safety. I also stringently avoid those liquid mineral formulation because ALL of them contain heavy metal particulate.
Your fillings if silver contain heavy metals. Consider replacing them with composite instead. (I did this on one whole side of my mouth without using any numbing agent and it went fine. Just do a couple at a time and give yourself a three month break in between.)
Some household paints contain heavy metals and/or their pigments. Pay more to choose the NO VOC and safe pigment paints. You can choose hardwood and tile floors in place of carpeting which is chock full of chemicals.
Drink distilled water or reverse osmosis for at least ONE YEAR to help remove heavy metals from your body. Taking antioxidants is great but eating them in foods is BETTER. Lots of citrus fruit, nuts, whole grains and especially vegetables. Meats all contain a certain degree of heavy metals and estrogenic chemicals regardless of how they are raised. Eggs may be better for you than meat and beans are a very GOOD source of protein and useful for bodily cleansing.
If you can FAST, try a juice or vegetable juice fast one day a week. Some people do a water fast once a week, if you are physically able, GREAT. IF not, do what you can do to give the digestive tract a day of catching up, as it were.
Some forms of calcium and cal/mag are very poorly utilized in the body and also contain heavy metal particulate...in fact, I suspect ALL forms of cal/mag outside of veggie consumption are very poor subsitutes. But we have to get it somewhere and milk because of its high protein content uses up nearly as much of the cal in it as it could offer. Suggestion: eat a bowl of home made veggie soup once a day. Gather up whatever veggies are ripe each week, clean them, put them in pure distilled water with onions and garlic and bring to a boil. Reduce to simmer for 3 hours. Should you add meat? Up to you, an organic meat bone would be better. Herb seasonings? YES.
Healthy exercise where you breathe deeply and regularly (sweating is not as important as breathing because you sweat when you breathe through your mouth and nose and some people NEVER sweat hard no matter HOW they excercise.) I don't beleive in ANY form of exercise that you cannot talk and do at the same time. If you cannot breathe well enough to talk you are exercising too hard. Do your exercise away from traffic and other pollutants.
This is not your answer, I know. It's just one way through the maze....
shalom
QUOTE (frozentundra @ Sep 18 2009, 09:17 PM)
Hi
I dunno what your TSH test ranges look like but on mine .21 would be HIGH. HIGH THYROID not LOW. The usual range is about .025 - 2.5 (although it can go as LOW as 5 and still be considered normal. If mine was that high, I would drop the dose a bit. But again, you need to talk with your endo to find out what their range for TSH is.
Now if you said your TSH was 21.5 I would say thats daggone low.
Your body will NEED three to SIX months at your age to adjust to levothyroxine. During that time I would have it tested every three months. I would do one more testing three months after it stabilized. If you feel crappy, take some selenium with one meal a day. Not a megadose, just an optimal dose. Make sure you are getting B vitamins DAILY and vitamin C (esther C is best at 500 mg. day) DAILY. These things help process T4 or so I was told. Don't take any calcium or dairy products or high citrus juice with your thyroid pill. Never take it with any soy product.
If your TSH stabilizes in the normal range but your T3 or T4 are off with the thyroid panel, time to see your endo. You may need tweaking. That tweaking might include cytomel but don't ever take T3 if you have any heart or high blood pressure issues.
shalom
p.s. a friend of ours had thyroid cancer surgery and was placed on levothyroxine. She was told to take it at night so it would not interfere with her food. She was sleeping so horrible I told her to take it first thing in the AM before breakfast (or with if your body is a fast converter.) That cured her sleep problem!
I dunno what your TSH test ranges look like but on mine .21 would be HIGH. HIGH THYROID not LOW. The usual range is about .025 - 2.5 (although it can go as LOW as 5 and still be considered normal. If mine was that high, I would drop the dose a bit. But again, you need to talk with your endo to find out what their range for TSH is.
Now if you said your TSH was 21.5 I would say thats daggone low.
Your body will NEED three to SIX months at your age to adjust to levothyroxine. During that time I would have it tested every three months. I would do one more testing three months after it stabilized. If you feel crappy, take some selenium with one meal a day. Not a megadose, just an optimal dose. Make sure you are getting B vitamins DAILY and vitamin C (esther C is best at 500 mg. day) DAILY. These things help process T4 or so I was told. Don't take any calcium or dairy products or high citrus juice with your thyroid pill. Never take it with any soy product.
If your TSH stabilizes in the normal range but your T3 or T4 are off with the thyroid panel, time to see your endo. You may need tweaking. That tweaking might include cytomel but don't ever take T3 if you have any heart or high blood pressure issues.
shalom
p.s. a friend of ours had thyroid cancer surgery and was placed on levothyroxine. She was told to take it at night so it would not interfere with her food. She was sleeping so horrible I told her to take it first thing in the AM before breakfast (or with if your body is a fast converter.) That cured her sleep problem!
Just wanted to weigh in on the subject of T3. I tried Armor for the first time in May of this year (maybe I received the new Armor), but I had a terrible episode of palps that lasted almost an hour and required a calcium channel blocker to bring under control. Maybe it was the Armour, maybe not. I was on a pretty low dose. Anyway, my Dr. swithched me back to extended release T3 and increased my dose when I was experiencing some palps and anxiety. I was really nervous about the increase, but it seems to agree with me. I take a dose in the morning and one in the late afternoon. Maybe because it is extended release it is tolerated better.
Dee:
Nature-throid doses are a little different per "grain" but comparable. For example their 1 grain size is 62.5 mg. I really like it much better.
Avi
Nature-throid doses are a little different per "grain" but comparable. For example their 1 grain size is 62.5 mg. I really like it much better.
Avi
QUOTE (dlt1200 @ Sep 11 2009, 09:35 PM)
Avi:
Do you know if the dosing for Nature-Throid the same as Armour? Does it come in 15mg/30mg and 60mg like Armour does? Looks like I need to find another source too as I am not a candidate for synthroid.
Dee
Do you know if the dosing for Nature-Throid the same as Armour? Does it come in 15mg/30mg and 60mg like Armour does? Looks like I need to find another source too as I am not a candidate for synthroid.
Dee
Snowmoon:
I couldn't disagree more. There is vast data to support and even the AACE agrees that a TSH of below 3.0, especially with antibodies needs to be treated..The reasons are many.
"She likes to send people into fear" is also patently false..in fact, her books say time and again that patients are not lab values, people are different, and that where YOU feel well might NOT be the same as someone else. I don't agree with Mary on everything, but she has probably done more to raise the awareness of hypothyroidism than any one single person in the U.S., if not the world.
A TSH of 20 needs to be treated, or at the very least investigated thoroughly. Even the most classically trained endo, unless he/she is a complete idiot, should tell you that.
I'm not sure what you mean by your case not being so "cut and dry"...neither is/was mine..in fact, a very complicated Hashi's/Graves mix..
Avi
I couldn't disagree more. There is vast data to support and even the AACE agrees that a TSH of below 3.0, especially with antibodies needs to be treated..The reasons are many.
"She likes to send people into fear" is also patently false..in fact, her books say time and again that patients are not lab values, people are different, and that where YOU feel well might NOT be the same as someone else. I don't agree with Mary on everything, but she has probably done more to raise the awareness of hypothyroidism than any one single person in the U.S., if not the world.
A TSH of 20 needs to be treated, or at the very least investigated thoroughly. Even the most classically trained endo, unless he/she is a complete idiot, should tell you that.
I'm not sure what you mean by your case not being so "cut and dry"...neither is/was mine..in fact, a very complicated Hashi's/Graves mix..
Avi
QUOTE (Snowmoon56 @ Sep 11 2009, 08:56 PM)
Avi, Why do you think I have not done my research? My case is not so cut & dry!
I have read Mary Shomon books, she's good at selling a lot of books!
She likes to sends people into fear if their tsh is above 2.0? Had mine in the high 20's.
No thanks >I'm not one of her fans!
I have read Mary Shomon books, she's good at selling a lot of books!
She likes to sends people into fear if their tsh is above 2.0? Had mine in the high 20's.
No thanks >I'm not one of her fans!
Lots of questions, so I'll pick a couple..
I'm an avid reader..have been a thyroid pt for 13 years and have read every book and medical journal article I could get my hands on..Internet, library, books my docs have suggested or given me...you name it. Thanks (I think, LOL) for the doctor comment..
I have tremendous respect for Mary and some others out there as well..MD's, patient advocates, and I really like everything I read by Elaine Moore (I am a Graves pt as well as Hashi's..Elaine, although not an MD has written the quinteseential Graves handbook.
I have been there, done that with the hair/heavy metals analysis. I have become an advocate for pathogenic or allergenic causes for most AI disease. In my own case, Lyme Disease was a big factor.
Calcitonin is not the only factor to be considered in porcine thyroid..And, incidentally, Synthroid or similar levothyroixine meds are "one-off", not dessicated meds. It is currently believed that most pts do not need calcitonin..However, some pts..especially those with high antibody counts and severe gland destruction lose their ability to produce their own calcitonin and thus, lose their ability to regulate calcium.
"Natural" does not mean safe...whether in the case of thyroid hormone, female hormones, or more..However, it is often a case of what works for you..and sometimes what provides welcome relief. I do better on dessicated..MUCH better. I have a friend that does better on generic L-thyroxine. Bioidentical may or may not mean exactly what your own body produces, but may be infinitely better for you (if you feel that you need to replace hormones) than Premarin.
What your own body can "decode" so to speak, may be very different than someone else's. For example on T4 meds, my AI disease goes completely crazy..antibodies climb and I feel like absolute shtick on a stick.
I'm an avid reader..have been a thyroid pt for 13 years and have read every book and medical journal article I could get my hands on..Internet, library, books my docs have suggested or given me...you name it. Thanks (I think, LOL) for the doctor comment..
I have tremendous respect for Mary and some others out there as well..MD's, patient advocates, and I really like everything I read by Elaine Moore (I am a Graves pt as well as Hashi's..Elaine, although not an MD has written the quinteseential Graves handbook.
I have been there, done that with the hair/heavy metals analysis. I have become an advocate for pathogenic or allergenic causes for most AI disease. In my own case, Lyme Disease was a big factor.
Calcitonin is not the only factor to be considered in porcine thyroid..And, incidentally, Synthroid or similar levothyroixine meds are "one-off", not dessicated meds. It is currently believed that most pts do not need calcitonin..However, some pts..especially those with high antibody counts and severe gland destruction lose their ability to produce their own calcitonin and thus, lose their ability to regulate calcium.
"Natural" does not mean safe...whether in the case of thyroid hormone, female hormones, or more..However, it is often a case of what works for you..and sometimes what provides welcome relief. I do better on dessicated..MUCH better. I have a friend that does better on generic L-thyroxine. Bioidentical may or may not mean exactly what your own body produces, but may be infinitely better for you (if you feel that you need to replace hormones) than Premarin.
What your own body can "decode" so to speak, may be very different than someone else's. For example on T4 meds, my AI disease goes completely crazy..antibodies climb and I feel like absolute shtick on a stick.
QUOTE (frozentundra @ Sep 15 2009, 10:07 PM)
Wow
this has been a really GOOD Discussion. Wish I hadn't missed it but been so busy with two businesses and family stuff.
Avi, lotsa good info. Did you get it ALL at Shomons site or are you a very avid reader? You sound like a doctor.
I used to correspond with Shomon by email in her early days on the site and in fact, directed her to the med recall list where she began drawing her thyroid recall info. She got so big she didn't need the little people anymore and just stopped responding after a time. Guess that happens.
We did alot of talking about thyroid conversion isssues in those days. The best info I ever got wasn't online or in the dozens upon dozens of medical books I studied, it was from a nurse who was also a thyroid patient. She taught me how to use hair analysis studies to help figure out what was messing up my thyroid. Thyroid has to go through the same conversion process whether your body makes it or takes it in through a drug. Some people need more iodine to convert but maybe cannot handle iodized salt. Some cannot handle sea food or sea base iodine products. I think thyroid patients, especially those that have gone through Graves are rather susceptible to iodine issues. Some cannot use it at all once they have had thyroid disease. Have you found that true?
Using hair analysis you can help determine which of the critical dietary components are out of sync and that can certainly affect your conversion process. Too much sodium? Too little potassium? Not enough iron? Calcium and mag in sync? Are your B vitamins being utilized in your body properly - do you take them more than once a day since they pass through rather quickly? Do you have heavy metals blocking your conversion process either from contaminants you work with, mercury from your fillings. heavy pollution where you live or by drinking tap water? Hey, its not just tap water...canned drinks and some bottled waters are equally saturated with heavy metals. Is the fluoride in your toothpaste affecting your thyroid - that is, thyroid conversion? Do you eat a diet very heavy in goitrogens? Do you drink soy daily? Think it over. Are you putting five to eight glasses of pure water into your body daily to remove the pollutants and help clean your arteries?
Do I believe all of the above makes a crucial difference to a thyroid patient? Yes. Did the hair analysis help> yes, and even my internist doctor used the results. I cannot do them now, they went from forty a test to around four hundred in places.
There is alot more here than meets the eye. If dessicated porcine thyroid has been altered at the molecular level, like horse urine estrogen and yam based estrogen/progesterone are...they are not really a natural product. They may come from a natural source but they have been altered from their natural state. What is levoythyroxine if not a molecularly identical chemical to your own natural T4? Your body produces T4 and then converts it. When it converts it, does it fail to produce the full gamut of essential components? Is every person who takes T4 lacking calcitonin? I've head this argument before. When you take synthetic estrogen you get one component of estrogen. Its a molecular creation similar to but not identical to the full spectrum human estrogen. Heres the difference. The body WILL produce T4 and then convert it through the process you describe. The body will not take synthetic estrogen and convert it into anything. It doesn't even require a liver pass and its off to the races. That estrogen heads for the nearest estrogen receptors as fast as it can in a patch or cream form. If you take the pills and it does the liver pass, you need three to six times more because the body is trying to dump it. This and other forms of artificial estrogen (like the type in plastics) cause breast pain and swelling. Since estrogen receptors are literally everywhere in the body, these synthetics fill them as fast as they can and since the breasts hold a greater affincity for it, they fill up and keep expanding as they are supposed to do under the influence of estrogen and you get breast pain and worse.
The uitlization process is very different between synthetic estrogen and synthetic T4 but they are both manmade products. One of them your body will probably find a way to use efficiently, given that your conversion process is not being hindered by an imbalance of the building blocks it needs to convert. The other is off to the races to fill every receptor it can find. If you keep bombarding those receptors, which is what synthetic estrogens and progestins do, you are liable to cause overgrowth (tissue overstimulation) issues. The reason premarin is dangerous is precisely the reason you stated, it has been altered from its natural state molecularly to resemble human estrogen but lacks its DNA footprint. I suspect that the human body will convert synthetic T4 completely or not at all depending upon the existing chemical profile of that persons body. That is, whether their particular body has the tools required to convert it. However, if they had the proper tools to begin with...why did they develop thyroid disease?
Some people with heavy metal issues and chemical imbalances will required T3. Dessicated thyroid is a lifesaver to those who for whatever reason cannot convert T4 to full spectrum T3.
These are just my random thoughts on the subject. I'd like to hear other peoples.
Shalom
this has been a really GOOD Discussion. Wish I hadn't missed it but been so busy with two businesses and family stuff.
Avi, lotsa good info. Did you get it ALL at Shomons site or are you a very avid reader? You sound like a doctor.
I used to correspond with Shomon by email in her early days on the site and in fact, directed her to the med recall list where she began drawing her thyroid recall info. She got so big she didn't need the little people anymore and just stopped responding after a time. Guess that happens.
We did alot of talking about thyroid conversion isssues in those days. The best info I ever got wasn't online or in the dozens upon dozens of medical books I studied, it was from a nurse who was also a thyroid patient. She taught me how to use hair analysis studies to help figure out what was messing up my thyroid. Thyroid has to go through the same conversion process whether your body makes it or takes it in through a drug. Some people need more iodine to convert but maybe cannot handle iodized salt. Some cannot handle sea food or sea base iodine products. I think thyroid patients, especially those that have gone through Graves are rather susceptible to iodine issues. Some cannot use it at all once they have had thyroid disease. Have you found that true?
Using hair analysis you can help determine which of the critical dietary components are out of sync and that can certainly affect your conversion process. Too much sodium? Too little potassium? Not enough iron? Calcium and mag in sync? Are your B vitamins being utilized in your body properly - do you take them more than once a day since they pass through rather quickly? Do you have heavy metals blocking your conversion process either from contaminants you work with, mercury from your fillings. heavy pollution where you live or by drinking tap water? Hey, its not just tap water...canned drinks and some bottled waters are equally saturated with heavy metals. Is the fluoride in your toothpaste affecting your thyroid - that is, thyroid conversion? Do you eat a diet very heavy in goitrogens? Do you drink soy daily? Think it over. Are you putting five to eight glasses of pure water into your body daily to remove the pollutants and help clean your arteries?
Do I believe all of the above makes a crucial difference to a thyroid patient? Yes. Did the hair analysis help> yes, and even my internist doctor used the results. I cannot do them now, they went from forty a test to around four hundred in places.
There is alot more here than meets the eye. If dessicated porcine thyroid has been altered at the molecular level, like horse urine estrogen and yam based estrogen/progesterone are...they are not really a natural product. They may come from a natural source but they have been altered from their natural state. What is levoythyroxine if not a molecularly identical chemical to your own natural T4? Your body produces T4 and then converts it. When it converts it, does it fail to produce the full gamut of essential components? Is every person who takes T4 lacking calcitonin? I've head this argument before. When you take synthetic estrogen you get one component of estrogen. Its a molecular creation similar to but not identical to the full spectrum human estrogen. Heres the difference. The body WILL produce T4 and then convert it through the process you describe. The body will not take synthetic estrogen and convert it into anything. It doesn't even require a liver pass and its off to the races. That estrogen heads for the nearest estrogen receptors as fast as it can in a patch or cream form. If you take the pills and it does the liver pass, you need three to six times more because the body is trying to dump it. This and other forms of artificial estrogen (like the type in plastics) cause breast pain and swelling. Since estrogen receptors are literally everywhere in the body, these synthetics fill them as fast as they can and since the breasts hold a greater affincity for it, they fill up and keep expanding as they are supposed to do under the influence of estrogen and you get breast pain and worse.
The uitlization process is very different between synthetic estrogen and synthetic T4 but they are both manmade products. One of them your body will probably find a way to use efficiently, given that your conversion process is not being hindered by an imbalance of the building blocks it needs to convert. The other is off to the races to fill every receptor it can find. If you keep bombarding those receptors, which is what synthetic estrogens and progestins do, you are liable to cause overgrowth (tissue overstimulation) issues. The reason premarin is dangerous is precisely the reason you stated, it has been altered from its natural state molecularly to resemble human estrogen but lacks its DNA footprint. I suspect that the human body will convert synthetic T4 completely or not at all depending upon the existing chemical profile of that persons body. That is, whether their particular body has the tools required to convert it. However, if they had the proper tools to begin with...why did they develop thyroid disease?
Some people with heavy metal issues and chemical imbalances will required T3. Dessicated thyroid is a lifesaver to those who for whatever reason cannot convert T4 to full spectrum T3.
These are just my random thoughts on the subject. I'd like to hear other peoples.
Shalom
Darlene:
Westthroid (as it used to be formulated) HAS been discontinued as such. The primary difference (and if I remember correctly maybe even the ONLY) difference was the use of microcrystalline cellulose as the "filler" in N-T; cornstarch as the filler in West-throid..N-T being "hypoallergenic", W-T not.they are NOW the same and eventually, if not already, will be called the same. Both distributed (and I think made as well now..) by RLC Labs..
RLC appears to be a quality organization. You'll likely do fine, but you might ask for the ingredients list for comparison..
Avi
Westthroid (as it used to be formulated) HAS been discontinued as such. The primary difference (and if I remember correctly maybe even the ONLY) difference was the use of microcrystalline cellulose as the "filler" in N-T; cornstarch as the filler in West-throid..N-T being "hypoallergenic", W-T not.they are NOW the same and eventually, if not already, will be called the same. Both distributed (and I think made as well now..) by RLC Labs..
RLC appears to be a quality organization. You'll likely do fine, but you might ask for the ingredients list for comparison..
Avi
QUOTE (darlene bursch @ Sep 16 2009, 04:22 AM)
Yeah, some random thoughts Shalom....sounds more like the words of a research scientist who is doing an in depth study on thyroid disease You definitely don't sound like you are one of "the little people" to which you refer!!
Like most of you, I am having trouble getting my regular dessicated thyroid meds. I have been on Nature Throid for almost eight years, and I have been getting my prescriptions filled through Women's International Pharmacy. But last week when I called for a refill, I was told that Nature Throid will be on back order for at least ninety days, and possibly longer. The woman I spoke to told me that I could switch over to Westhroid ( and yet Avi, you said that it had been discontinued) if my doctor authorized it, until they were able to obtain the NT again.
Sudio, I could feel my anxiety begin to rise as I wondered if I would have a bad reaction to this new thyroid med because I had tried so many before I went on Nature Throid. That has been the only one I could tolerate, and like you I am SO afraid of taking meds, even if they are natural.
Anyway, the pharmacist assured me that Westhroid is almost (don't like that word!) identical to Nature Throid, so I figured I didn't really have a choice....I mean we can't just stop taking our thyroid meds. Well, I received my order a few days ago, and I haven't even opened the bottle yet-they are capsules instead of the tiny little tablets I was taking, and they are measured in grains instead of mgs, and it doesn't even say Westhroid on the label...it only says "P-Thyroid". I'm so afraid of having a bad reaction to it. Is anyone taking Westhroid now, and if so, is that how yours is labled too? I have emailed the pharmacist asking if this is truly Westhroid, but he/she has not responded yet. Is this shortage of Nature Throid all due to the change in Armour? Sudio, it IS so maddening and unfair to have to be forced into a certain choice because there is no other option. I hope you do well on the Nature Throid.
Darlene
You definitely don't sound like you are one of "the little people" to which you refer!!Like most of you, I am having trouble getting my regular dessicated thyroid meds. I have been on Nature Throid for almost eight years, and I have been getting my prescriptions filled through Women's International Pharmacy. But last week when I called for a refill, I was told that Nature Throid will be on back order for at least ninety days, and possibly longer. The woman I spoke to told me that I could switch over to Westhroid ( and yet Avi, you said that it had been discontinued) if my doctor authorized it, until they were able to obtain the NT again.
Sudio, I could feel my anxiety begin to rise as I wondered if I would have a bad reaction to this new thyroid med because I had tried so many before I went on Nature Throid. That has been the only one I could tolerate, and like you I am SO afraid of taking meds, even if they are natural.
Anyway, the pharmacist assured me that Westhroid is almost (don't like that word!) identical to Nature Throid, so I figured I didn't really have a choice....I mean we can't just stop taking our thyroid meds. Well, I received my order a few days ago, and I haven't even opened the bottle yet-they are capsules instead of the tiny little tablets I was taking, and they are measured in grains instead of mgs, and it doesn't even say Westhroid on the label...it only says "P-Thyroid". I'm so afraid of having a bad reaction to it. Is anyone taking Westhroid now, and if so, is that how yours is labled too? I have emailed the pharmacist asking if this is truly Westhroid, but he/she has not responded yet. Is this shortage of Nature Throid all due to the change in Armour? Sudio, it IS so maddening and unfair to have to be forced into a certain choice because there is no other option. I hope you do well on the Nature Throid.
Darlene
QUOTE (darlene bursch @ Sep 16 2009, 04:08 PM)
Sudio, I was finally able to speak to a pharmacist this morning, and in my case my doctor had actually ordered the wrong thyroid med, a specially compounded one, which I'm so glad now that I didn't take, as I had all kinds of anxiety symptoms when I tried the compounded type before I'm happy to hear thaat you haven't experienced any adverse effects from the Nature throid so far. This pharmacist assured me too that Westhroid (which is still being made) is exactly the same as Nature Throid, although in the beginning they were slightly different due to fillers, and I think they were made by a different company. But when Westhroid began to be manufactured by RLC, even though they kept the name, they made it from the very same formula as NatureThroid. So if you do need to refill your prescription before NT is back in stock, you shoud be able to use Westhroid without a problem.
Dancer, usually once you have thyroid disease like Hashimoto's (count me in too) you do have to take thyroid hormone for life, unless by some good fortune, your antibodies disappear, your TSH is consistantly within the normal range AND you have no symptoms! I haven't heard of Synthroid being able to reduce antibodies, but I have heard that about the mineral selenium.
I have a question for all you ladies. The most recent endo I saw claims that there are NO symptoms with Hashimoto's, which she has herself. When I showed her the list of all the horrible symptoms I have had since being diagnosed with H and becoming menopausal, she told me that I simply had an "exquisitely sensitive nervous system". And when I showed her some info that I had printed out describing the psychological manifestations of Hashimoto's, she claimed that the case histories mentioned were "just anecdotal". She totally minimized my distress. So, my question is...do any/all of you have awful symptoms that you think are related to Hashimoto's as well as menopause? I just cannot believe that when something goes wrong with your thyroid gland which is supposedly the master gland of the entire body, that you wouldn't have any symptoms! I do think that the doctor I saw was just one of those lucky people (like the women who breeze through meno) who had no ill effects from this autoimmune disorder.!
Darlene
I'm happy to hear thaat you haven't experienced any adverse effects from the Nature throid so far. This pharmacist assured me too that Westhroid (which is still being made) is exactly the same as Nature Throid, although in the beginning they were slightly different due to fillers, and I think they were made by a different company. But when Westhroid began to be manufactured by RLC, even though they kept the name, they made it from the very same formula as NatureThroid. So if you do need to refill your prescription before NT is back in stock, you shoud be able to use Westhroid without a problem.Dancer, usually once you have thyroid disease like Hashimoto's (count me in too) you do have to take thyroid hormone for life, unless by some good fortune, your antibodies disappear, your TSH is consistantly within the normal range AND you have no symptoms! I haven't heard of Synthroid being able to reduce antibodies, but I have heard that about the mineral selenium.
I have a question for all you ladies. The most recent endo I saw claims that there are NO symptoms with Hashimoto's, which she has herself. When I showed her the list of all the horrible symptoms I have had since being diagnosed with H and becoming menopausal, she told me that I simply had an "exquisitely sensitive nervous system". And when I showed her some info that I had printed out describing the psychological manifestations of Hashimoto's, she claimed that the case histories mentioned were "just anecdotal". She totally minimized my distress. So, my question is...do any/all of you have awful symptoms that you think are related to Hashimoto's as well as menopause? I just cannot believe that when something goes wrong with your thyroid gland which is supposedly the master gland of the entire body, that you wouldn't have any symptoms! I do think that the doctor I saw was just one of those lucky people (like the women who breeze through meno) who had no ill effects from this autoimmune disorder.!
Darlene
Darlene:
I had to laugh when I read what your endo had said and besides that she is vastly incorrect; studies abound and a google or Pub-Med search should give you all that you need. My advice is to find a new doctor. Minimizing your distress and symptoms is not a good place for her to start.
Avi
QUOTE (scbev @ Sep 18 2009, 07:58 PM)
Okay, I have now been on Levothroid for one month after being on Naturethroid for months. Is it possible for depression to worsen when switching to Levothroid and would it take 3 weeks for a person to notice the difference. Actually It may have been two weeks when I noticed the depression worsening. I am just trying to figure out why the depression is getting worse. I am on 175 mg of Levothroid and just had blood test done and my TSH was at .21. Isn't that kind of low?
I am considering going back to the Naturethroid without the Dr.'s consent because I feel sooooo cruddy.
I am considering going back to the Naturethroid without the Dr.'s consent because I feel sooooo cruddy.
Yes, it is possible that your depression is related to the med switch. Many reasons, some somewhat technical..If you were doing well on the N-T, then you should definitely tell your doc and insist on the medication that is right for you. The more of us that stand up and complain and insist on the treatment that works for us, the more these docs (and there are some good ones out there) may just possibly learn..Sorry to hear you are suffering.
Avi
Darlene:
I repeat my recommendation that you find a doc that is not a "TSH worshipper". TSH is affected by so many things. High antibody counts in some, or even most cases can indicate a vigorous auto-immune process. In my own case, Lyme (a pathogenic cause) may have been at the root of the AI disease. AI disease has many causes and supplements can only go so far. In some cases, a low TSH can be associated with hypo-pituitary syndromes..something your endo should have studied in endo school.
A Thyroflex machine is not supposed to (at least as far as I understand it) measure TSH. It measures the responsiveness of a deep tendon in the forearm and this indicates whether thyroid is optimal or no. (I have had this test done by a doctor that I highly respect).
Avi
I repeat my recommendation that you find a doc that is not a "TSH worshipper". TSH is affected by so many things. High antibody counts in some, or even most cases can indicate a vigorous auto-immune process. In my own case, Lyme (a pathogenic cause) may have been at the root of the AI disease. AI disease has many causes and supplements can only go so far. In some cases, a low TSH can be associated with hypo-pituitary syndromes..something your endo should have studied in endo school.
A Thyroflex machine is not supposed to (at least as far as I understand it) measure TSH. It measures the responsiveness of a deep tendon in the forearm and this indicates whether thyroid is optimal or no. (I have had this test done by a doctor that I highly respect).
Avi
QUOTE (darlene bursch @ Sep 19 2009, 03:54 PM)
Pam, I don't believe the endo I saw is taking any meds, so apparently her Hashi either wasn't that bad or it is no longer detectable. I have read that even though your antibodies are low, you can still have uncomfortable symptoms, and when they are high, you may not have any symptoms. My antibodies are in the high thousands, and while my TSH is in a so called normal range (1. ) right now, she did not suggest that I need to have it tested every six months or so even though from past labs, I know that my values tend to be all over the place from month to month, and I believe that I would benefit from having my thyroid meds adjusted accordingly. Sometimes when I am feeling hyper, I will just cut down my dose on my own.
scbev, at .21, it seems that you might be having to deal with hyper-thyroid symptoms. I personally would ask to be put back on Naturethroid, but if your doctor won't agree, maybe you could just have your naturopath prescribe it for you. You know your body better than anyone else, and if you instinctively know that the levothyroxine is making you feel worse, then you have every right to switch back to the dessicated brand of thyroid. I have never heard of a Thyroflex machine. What is it and how does it measure TSH? As Shalom suggested, I take vitamin C daily. The brand I use is Alive Whole Foods C by Nature's Way, which is naturally buffered just like the esther C. I take 500mg twice a day. I have taken selenium with Vit E in the past, but I'm not sure if it had any affect on my antibody levels.
Shalom, I was tested for celiac on the recommendation of my acupuncturist, and it was negative. While I was happy about that, I am still left wondering what the root cause of my autoimmune disorder is, and why my antibodies never drop below 1000, even though I am on thyroid meds, and taking what I believe are all the right supplements. But then according to the endo, none of it matters as long as my TSH is in the normal range. Easy for her to say! It is difficult to find a doctor who does not minimize your symptoms, and who is willing to do some dectective work to find out what is really going on in our bodies.
Darlene
scbev, at .21, it seems that you might be having to deal with hyper-thyroid symptoms. I personally would ask to be put back on Naturethroid, but if your doctor won't agree, maybe you could just have your naturopath prescribe it for you. You know your body better than anyone else, and if you instinctively know that the levothyroxine is making you feel worse, then you have every right to switch back to the dessicated brand of thyroid. I have never heard of a Thyroflex machine. What is it and how does it measure TSH? As Shalom suggested, I take vitamin C daily. The brand I use is Alive Whole Foods C by Nature's Way, which is naturally buffered just like the esther C. I take 500mg twice a day. I have taken selenium with Vit E in the past, but I'm not sure if it had any affect on my antibody levels.
Shalom, I was tested for celiac on the recommendation of my acupuncturist, and it was negative. While I was happy about that, I am still left wondering what the root cause of my autoimmune disorder is, and why my antibodies never drop below 1000, even though I am on thyroid meds, and taking what I believe are all the right supplements. But then according to the endo, none of it matters as long as my TSH is in the normal range. Easy for her to say! It is difficult to find a doctor who does not minimize your symptoms, and who is willing to do some dectective work to find out what is really going on in our bodies.
Darlene
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