hi all you wonderful ladies,

I am at the end of my rope. I am using Estrogel....somedays 1/2 of a push of the pump--other days a whole push. Just started my second pump of estrogel. The first pump seemed to help me with night sweats and insomnia. I was actually sleeping about six hours a night and only waking up about once or twice. I have been using the second pump for a week now and it is doing nothing for me. I am waking up every hour--plus I wake up really early in the morning and can't get back to sleep. Probably sleep four broken up hours. Maybe I should be happy with that. But I feel so tired. SO--I'm wondering if I have to take more estradiol--two pushes of the pump. I wish I could tolerate progesterone because it helps with sleep issues but I have Crohns disease and when I cycle off of the progest I immediately get a horrible flare-up of my crohns. It seems to suppress inflammation when I am on it but then it worsens my condition when I go off and each time I go on and off I am worse off then before. I AM READY TO THROW IN THE TOWEL ON THIS WHOLE HORMONE THING. i'VE HAD ALL THE TESTING DONE....BLOOD AND SALIVA. BLOOD LEVELS WERE 20 PG/ML FOR ESTRADIOL AND SALIVA LEVELS WERE 2.0 PG/ML. They were done before I started all these creams. I feel worse now then I ever have and I am just soooooooooo depressed over this whole thing. I wish I knew what to do. DOES OUR BODIES GET ADDICTED TO THE ESTRADIOL AND WE END UP NEEDING MORE AND MORE IN ORDER TO HELP WITH SYMPTOMS. I WANT TO SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry..tried to answer this and for some reason am having to repost. Avalina, I am a little unclear about how much Estrogel you are using and when you are using it. Firstly, one "pump" does not deliver a tremendous amount 1.25 mg of product and .75 mg of Estradiol for a blood level of about 40 pg/ml (I think I have the units of measure correct). Your serum level of 20 is likely a little low. If you were doing well and sleeping well on the one pump, then that might be where you need to stay for a while.
Also, I am also unclear about how much progesterone and when you are using that. Progesterone in some cases helps with auto-immune issues like Crohns because it is usually an immuno-suppressant. Estradiol, conversely, usually is an immuno-stimulant and can sometimes worsen AI issues.
Some women do better when they have nightly doses of E-gel, some do not..I am one of those that can NOT add in E at night..it breaks up my sleep and gives me insomnia and I usually (thank the sweet Lord) sleep fine.
If you can tell me a little more, I might be able to help.
Avi

Hey there,


This is sometimes what happens to me when I use more than one pump now. In the beginning, I was using 1 pump in the morning and 1 pump mid to late afternoon and was fine on that. I felt great actually.

Now if I do that sometimes it really messes me up and disturbed sleep is one of the things that happens. I haven't had a period for 14 months now. Maybe at some point(s) our bodies settle on needing a certain amount and adding more is not a good thing???

Btw, I haven't used P for a couple of weeks now either. My bad!!!!


c

Hi Avi,

thanks so much for responding. I am so desperate for answers. I appreciate you taking time to help me. Let's see.......I have been bouncing back and forth between 1/2 push of the pump and one whole push of the pump.-- So I guess I am getting between .38 and .75 mg of the estradiol. Maybe I should just stay consistent with the one push-.75 mg. I have been applying it in the late afternoon. Maybe I need to do it in the morning. I have such fragmented sleep. I will fall asleep and wake up one or two hours later thinking I have slept the whole night. I use to be able to sleep in late if I went to bed late--only being able to wake up by the alarm clock. Since being on the estradiol I wake up at the crack of dawn unable to go back to sleep no matter how hard I try added to waking up all night long. Since I have candida and crohns disease and seem to be sensitive to the progesterone I have only cycled in (every three months) the progesterone gel vaginally. I have heard that the vaginal gel is better for those who are sensitive to the P. When I cycled in the Progesterone gel vaginally for the first 10 days of August my crohns disease actually seemed a little better--I gained some weight which was awesome because I am so thin and I also seemed to have a better appetite. I was using 3 % vaginal cream inserted vaginally 1 ml. per night. BUT WHEN I CAME OFF OF THE PROGESTERONE-MY CROHNS WENT OUT OF CONTROL AND I HAVE YET TO GET IT BACK UNDER CONTROL. In the last three weeks I have seldom had an appetite--have lost weight. Added to not sleeping good I am a wreck. I actually thought of admitting myself to the hospital this morning. I am so despressed. If you have any advice I would be so grateful. thank you. avalina

Avalina,

My advice to you would be to stay consistent with your E doses and don't use it in the afternoon. Put it on in the morning and see if that helps your sleep. I find that it gives me energy and using it in the PM always affects my sleep. If one pump (.75 mgs) takes care of your symptoms then it's enough.

I can't help with the P questions. I'm having a terrible time with it myself.

Good luck....hope you sleep tonight!


c

Well, here's my 2 cents' worth: I got absolutely nowhere with Estrogel, Divigel, or Evamist as a reliable 'maintenance' estradiol source. I am way, way past meno but still need to supplement in order to have energy, focus and all the rest of it. When I tried these gels, I quickly learned that they'd give me a nice boost for about an hour and then crash and burn. But, if I used any past 4:00 pm, I would be energized all $#!!*#*! night long. I've read of others' similar experiences here. When trying these gels, I would keep using more and more. The problem was that they just seemed to clear my system too quickly to provide systemic estradiol. I kept wanting a 'fix' every couple of hours and burned through the stuff in no time. I felt the same way that I needed more and more and more.

On the plus side, I have found that the patch (Vivelle, 1 mg) keeps estradiol in my system. I don't like using them at all, but am happy with their staying power. I am not tolerant of progesterone either and am told I have an autoimmune disease (I don't believe it). I don't know whether you've tried a patch or whether this is a workable option for you. Have you used them? Maybe your system burns through gels? I do know patches are the only delivery system that works for me.

Good luck and keep the faith.
GK

Oh, one more thing...........I AM REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THE THOUGHT THAT ESTRADIOL CAN ACTUALLY WORSEN AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES--i THOUGHT IT WAS SUPPOSE TO HELP AND THAT THE P WORSENS THEM. MAYBE I HAVE IT BACKWARDS. BOY--NOW I AM REALLY WORRIED.

hI MANYBOYS,

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THAT ADVICE. DARN!!!!!!!!!!IT IS FIVE OCLOCK IN THE EVENING AND I JUST PUT ON .75 MG. OF THE ESTROGEL. I WILL DEFINATELY PUT IT ON FIRST THING IN THE MORNING TORMORROW. STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE P. I WILL SAY THAT MY TOENAIL FUNGUS AND VAGINITIS HAVE GONE AWAY SINCE USING THE ESTROGEL--DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A CORRELATION OR JUST COINCIDENTAL. THIS IS ALL SO CONFUSING. PLUS I STILL NOTICE THAT I AM OVULATING EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NOT HAD PERIODS FOR QUITE A WHILE. I ALSO NOTICE A STRONG VAGINAL ODOR WHEN OVULATING. GOSH--DURING ALL THE YEARS HAVING PERIODS AND SLEEPING LIKE A BABY I NEVER NOTICED THAT???????? THIS IS ALL SO CONFUSING. I'M ONLY 52 YEARS OLD (SEEMS YOUNG STILL) AND DON'T THINK I CAN LIVE LIKE THIS!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRR AVALINA

I've also had a few months where I have had the ovulation feelings/symptoms and didn't get that before I started HT. So, I wonder what that's all about. I just figured they were last ditch attempts at periods that never materialized.... I also get the odour and my incontinence is worse since stopping the P. Jeez, we sounds like basket cases.....;-( I see Depends in my future!

Do you take magnesium? If you've got some take it before bed. That might help counter the E you just applied and help you sleep. It does for me.

I know what you mean about feeling too young for all this to be happening. We're the same age and inside I feel pretty darned good, but my body seems to be going in a different direction these days!


c

I totally agree with you. I have all the same issues too!!! Hey--when I use ESTRIOL VAGINALLLY it seems to help with the incontinence. Plus i've been doing the abdomen strengthing exercises to try and lift the bladder. That also helps. I do have some cal/mag--i will use it tonight and drink some warm milk. Maybe I will even break down and take a sleeping pill--i have a prescription for Restoril. A friend gave me a couple of Advil PMs--she said they knock her out for 9 hours. I took two and they didn't seem to have much effect on me. I still woke up throughout the night and woke up early. OH--TO GO BACK TO MY YOUNGER YEARS WOULD BE SO WONDERFUL. I have friends who are my age and are not experiencing any meno issues and then there are others who are. I guess there are just some lucky ones. thanks for your comments.

I'm surprised to see so many say that estrodial "energizes" them and they can't sleep when using it in the evening. I have issues falling asleep, have had for many years...but since using Estrogel I sleep like a log, once I fall asleep. It stopped that maddening up every few hours and going to the bathroom, waking up too early, etc. I take a dose right before I get into bed, if I miss taking the dose I end up waking with hot flashes in the middle of the night and don't sleep well at all. Taking a dose every 8 hours keeps me on a nice even keel, but it doesn't energize me. I do get energized by taking testosterone in the late afternoon or evening. If I don't use it first thing in the morning then I just don't use it that day because I will be up for several hours longer waiting to be tired enough for sleep.

hey night owl,

how many times a day do you apply the estrogel and what strength do you use--if you don't mind me asking. You said you take it every eight hours? Wow--estradiol affects people in so many different ways. I wish it would put me to sleep, keep me asleep and prevent me from waking up in the early am. that would be miraculous. I think I would enjoy living again if I were to be so lucky to have that happen to me!! avalina

Yep. I can take one pump of E at, say 3 pm. and I'll sleep great and I know there's some mechanism with the E that helps with sleep aside from preventing the night sweats that will wake me.

But, applying it any later will keep me from sleeping.

I didn't have this issue with Estrace because I would take 1 mg in the morning and was done. It kept me going for the whole day.

I may go back to using it.

sorry, hit send too quickly. meant to ask you avalina.....how did you sleep last night?

Hello again Avalina:
The mantra for hormones is "to start low and go slow". I'll be glad to offer you the benefit of my reading and experience and it may be good to talk with yoru doc, esp if he/she is knowledgeable about the issues that you are having. If I were you, I would most definitely move the E-gel application to the a.m. If you can do okay with one push, then start there or even a half push and build slowly ONLY if you need to. Pay attention to how you feel not what your blood level readings are or whether you think you're getting enough and if you want to up the E, then do it very slowly. I had the pharmacist give me some tiny dosing syringes and I do my E-gel pump/push INTO the syringe and measure how much I get from day to day.

If the P is helping with the AI issues, then you may want to consider either doing a tiny bit until the last two weeks of your cycle OR you may not want to cycle P and just add in a little most days. Another thing for you to think about is that estriol is getting a lot of recent attention because of its immuno-modulation properties..in laymen's (or in this case women's LOL) terms, it helps with AI issues as well..so you may want to think of trying a Tri or Bi-est formula. Also remember that estradiol is an immune system stimulator in most respects. It can and definitely does (I have Graves's Disease and have had similar experience) exacerbate an AI issue.
Hang in there.
Avi

hey many boys,

thanks for asking.......I put the Estrogel on too late in the p.m.--at 5 p.m. I should have been exhausted because I did n't get any sleep the night before. Had difficulty in falling asleep and then woke up on and off. I call if float sleep. You don't really have that deep rem sleep just king of floating. oh well.........this morning I applied the E first thing and a little Test. so I will see what happens tonight. thanks

Hi Avi,

wow.........finding the exact amount of P, E and T to use when one has an autoimmune disease takes so much fine tuning. Well, I think I will try using 1/2 a push of the estrogel pump, a little estriol inserted vaginally and I have to re-think the P. If you don't mind me asking--do you use the P every day? If so, how much? How do you figure out when to add P in during the last two weeks of your cycle when you don't know when your "cycle" starts and ends? I no longer have periods so it is difficult to tell. I think I know when I ovulate but where do I go from there? If I do chose to use the P becuase of its ability to suppress AI diseases I think I would want to use it everyday. It seems to have cortisone like properties--meaning it suppresses inflammation but when you completely stop it --then all of your symptoms are exacerbated. The times that I have been on prednisone for my autoimmune disease my doc has weaned me off of it very slowly. This is all so confusing. Does the P seem to aggravate the Graves Disease for you? I think I will ask my pharmacist about some small dosing syringes also. Then maybe I can lessen my dose of estradiol. Anyhow Avi, thank you so much for your responses. I am so very grateful. Sometimes I feel like I am an anomaly--what works for most people just doesn't work for me. I would give anything.......to get my crohns disease under control. Now, I am so worried that my condition may have gotten worse because of the darn estrogel. Can the effects of the estrogel be lessened by taking estriol and the P? thanks avalina

Avalina:
Estradiol can stimulate the immune cystem and can also be pro-inflammatory. Progesterone should help to balance. Sometimes, my own AI thyroid issues (Hashi's, Graves) can worsen. There is some recent data out that suggests that estriol can and does help AI issues. If estradiol is causing YOUR AI issues to worsen, not necessarily a need to worry...you can try a formula with some estriol..you can also balance with progesterone...and you can try taking a little less.

This has been an interesting thread. Also very interesting is how many of us don't tolerate the progesterone well.

I use 2 pumps of estrogel a day, one first thing in the morning, and one in the evening. If I miss the evening one I will have hot flashes and falling asleep is very difficult. I really (thankfully) don't have too much trouble sleeping, other than the fact I have my sleep patterns messed up and stay up way too late at night. Perhaps I should start using my 2nd shot of estrogel after dinner, rather than before bed.

Back in the days when I could tolerate Progesterone - don't know why I stopped being able to - I slept awesome. I would pop a prometrium before bed and was out ALL NIGHT!! Now progesterone in any form gives me migraines EVERY DAY. I was given some tiny syringes to try tiny doses of the P cream. The original Rx was 2 mls twice a day, now we are going to try 0.5 mls twice a day. So far I haven't been brave enough to start....I really hate having daily migraines.

I have come to the conclusion that our hormone supplement needs change as time goes on. What works today may not work in 6 months from now. We must remain vigilant and keep a journal of how we feel, what hormones we used in what amounts. I used T for 2 months and was feeling REALLY GOOD, so what does the doctor do?? He takes me OFF IT!! Said it is hard on the liver!! So I have been without since Aug 31, and I can feel my energy level dropping off.

Have any of you used T for longer than 2 months? In what dosage?

Hi
Just needed some comments on using progesterone Bioidentical cream. The Dr, who is very good, upped my dose from .2ml to .3ml, now every morning I wake up, it runs right thru me. I called the nurse she said my body is just getting use to it, keep trying, if not go down to .2ml, and try to work up to .3ml slowly. I also just started yesterday taking .25 DHEA.
Jpie

Estrogel only comes in one strength - 0.75mg per metered dose. My doctor prescribes 4 doses a day (for a total of 3.0mg daily) but I've found 3 doses holds me fine. I use more than most people but my job was physically demanding - basically putting in about 10-15 miles a day at a quick pace. I think I'm a fast metabolizer and must "chew" through it faster than many others. I use a dose at roughly 6am-2pm-10pm. My job has changed and I spend more time on my butt behind a computer now than on my feet, but I feel good so I'm not going to be in any hurry to rock the boat by changing my dose!

[quote name='avalina' date='Sep 7 2009, 03:44 PM' post='308095']
hi all you wonderful ladies,

I am at the end of my rope. I am using Estrogel....somedays 1/2 of a push of the pump--other days a whole push. Just started my second pump of estrogel. The first pump seemed to help me with night sweats and insomnia. I was actually sleeping about six hours a night and only waking up about once or twice. I have been using the second pump for a week now and it is doing nothing for me. I am waking up every hour--plus I wake up really early in the morning and can't get back to sleep. Probably sleep four broken up hours. Maybe I should be happy with that. But I feel so tired. SO--I'm wondering if I have to take more estradiol--two pushes of the pump. I wish I could tolerate progesterone because it helps with sleep issues but I have Crohns disease and when I cycle off of the progest I immediately get a horrible flare-up of my crohns. It seems to suppress inflammation when I am on it but then it worsens my condition when I go off and each time I go on and off I am worse off then before. I AM READY TO THROW IN THE TOWEL ON THIS WHOLE HORMONE THING. i'VE HAD ALL THE TESTING DONE....BLOOD AND SALIVA. BLOOD LEVELS WERE 20 PG/ML FOR ESTRADIOL AND SALIVA LEVELS WERE 2.0 PG/ML. They were done before I started all these creams. I feel worse now then I ever have and I am just soooooooooo depressed over this whole thing. I wish I knew what to do. DOES OUR BODIES GET ADDICTED TO THE ESTRADIOL AND W
E END UP NEEDING MORE AND MORE IN ORDER TO HELP WITH SYMPTOMS. I WANT TO SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone earlier on this thread suggested trying the patch and that sounds like a good idea as it has a slow stead delivery (at least in theory LOL). It is also easier to control the dose, I find, as the vivelle dot can be cut into small pieces.

I also wanted to mention that I know someone who has Chrons (although in remission) who takes one pump of estrogel in the morning and one oral prometrium at night (all throughout the month). This has controlled her peri symptoms without aggravating the Chrons. If you can tolerate P and it is helping the Chrons then why not stay on it without cycling. I wonder if prometrium might be worth trying (if you haven't already) as it can be more sleep promoting than the transdermal forms.

All the best!

Gaz

Hi Avi,
Thanks for all your valuable info. Yesterday and Today I took my 1/2 push of estrogel and inserted about a 1/2 inch strip of estriol vaginally. My crohns wasn't too bad this morning and I was actually able to eat breakfast and a nice dinner--thrilling!!! Slept about 6 hours last night and only woke up once--again thrilling. I would feel like I was in heaven if I slept eight hours straight. Wow--that would be incredible!! I am going to take the T on Tues. and Thursdays--just twice a week. I think it does help with the libido. I am still afraid of the P--but am considering trying it again to see if it helps out with the crohns. Oh--I did notice that when I take one whole push of the Estrogel I get kind of headachy? This time around I will be really vigilant and keep notes. I have read many posts saying that if you have your uterus then it is better to take the P vaginally. Apparantly (from what I have read on this site)--it doesn't really protect the uterus when used orally or transdermally. What is your thought on that?

Hi there GK,

I have never used a patch--just the bi-est in various combinations 80/20, 50/50 and then 20 percent estriol and 80 percent estradiol. Now, I am on the estrogel. Since many people say that the estradiol gives them energy--wouldn't the patch be releasing estradiol even in the evening? Would this interfer with sleeping. I always wondered about that. You mentioned that you have been told that you have an autoimmune disease--do you know what kind? Wish there was a magic answer to all of this. It is such an individual thing--lots of trial and error. I get so ready to just throw in the towel and eat lots of soy?

:


Avalina:
You're immensely welcome and I'm glad that the Estriol combined with the Estradiol worked better for you. You're right to be careful with the P and using it as a 3% cream vaginally is a very good and cautious place to start. I agree that transdermal P is a risky process unLESS you are using it on lower fat areas..not because it doesn't protect, but because it can rapidly build up in fatty tissue and once it has, it is difficult to get out. Prometrium or other orally taken progesterone is absorbed roughly 10-20%, but WILL cause a period AND keep the uterus in secretory mode at around 100 mg daily if used every day and 200 mg daily if used last 10-14 days of cycle. If it is causing a period, it is causing the lining to shed. The amount that is adequate for each woman is a highly individual thing. I once had a period after taking just 25 mg daily TWICE, and this was oral..My follicular serum level of P was over 6 on just 20 mg orally per day..so I was absorbing it VERY well.
You're very right to keep notes or some sort of journal. I do with both what I'm taking hormonally as well as other things (supplements, OTC pain relievers, things that I eat). Patterns will start to emerge as you do this that might not have occurred to you otherwise.
I wish you continued success.'
Avi

Hello again Avalina:
You're right..these things take a lot of trial and error AND fine tuning. Again, start low and go slow, keeping a meticulous journal the entire way.
I do not currently use P, but plan to give a Tri-Est and P formula a whirl in a few weeks. I had to completely come off hormones because due to the reformulater Armour thyroid med, I was not metabolizing either E-gel or P well and had some uncomfortable side effects. I have since gotten thyroid meds reasonably stable and plan to try again shortly. What I had planned to do is start (esp since I absorb P so well) with a small amount of Tri-Est (which of course contains estradiol) in the a.m. for at least one "cycle", maybe two. Then I plan to add in 10-25 mg of a 3% cream vaginally for 10-14 days toward the end of my cycle and see what happens.
Progesterone typically is an immuno-suppressant, just like steroids. I also have Lyme, which as complicated matters, and have to be careful about P conversion to cortisol as well. (Cortisol can worsen Lyme infection). One of the reasons that progesterone rises to such high levels during pregnancy is to keep the body from rejecting the fetus as "foreign", in other words to lessen the possibility of an AI reaction.
P, and/or withdrawal from P, may have worsened the Graves side of my AI thyroid issues..yes. For a long time, when I would attempt to add in estradiol, my TSI antibodies could be absolutely counted on to elevate. So, yes..estradiol could have worsened your Crohn's AI condition; however, estriol and P should help the AI process somewhat..BUT, women are different..watch yourself closely and if you have a good doc, work closely with him/her.
Don't hesitate to post again or PM should you need further assistance. Also, I may have already said, but read anything by Uzzi Reiss and Elizabeth Vliet is also a good place to start to learn about hormones and their effects on the immune system.
Avi

Hello back to you,

The patch delivers a slow, steady dose that is just right for me. I notice when it's time to change it, as I'll feel my energy start to fade. It makes my skin red and itchy, but cortisone spray generally takes care of that. This delivery method has never kept me awake at night. The hormones that have, if taken after 4:00-ish, are: estriol, fresh-from-the-pump estradiol, and of course testosterone. Estriol especially - it's very energizing with me. If you are willing to try, perhaps your MD could offer a few samples - couple of weeks' worth. Vivelle is bio-identical.

I am way post-meno, and did a lot of trial and error back in peri. But I think a lot of that was the moving target of my body's hormones in fluctuation. Nowadays, I need more estradiol when I've been super-active, so I keep some straight gel on hand to supplement my patch. So far, so good.

As for AI, I have learned over the years that hormones can explain my diagnosis more than the supposed disease. It's been long enough for me to be fairly certain. Either that, or I am far more fortunate than I could have ever imagined.

Good luck with all.
GK

PS - I tried bi-est drops in various combinations, years ago, and never got anywhere with them. Guess I'm just a patch kind of guy.
GK

Hi again Avi,

Gosh--now I am so afriad to be using the estrogel due to the estradiol causing an inflammatory response. I have noticed that my crohns has gotten worse and seemed to be exacerbated after going off the P. I had cycled it in for the first 10 days of August. I didn't really have a period but had a small amount of reddish discharge. Sorry so graphic. Anyhow--after I went off I noticed a worsening of my condition. So--I just associate P with Pain-- I have thought all along that the P is similar to Prednisone. I am wondering if I could use P for 10 days a month but start out taking 1 ml. of the 3 percent cream and after five days of using 1 ml I could then start weaning myself off of it. OR maybe I should just stay on the P and see if it helps the Crohns. I did notice that before I was on the estradiol I had problems with vaginits and toenail fungus--I don't seem to have those problems once I started the estradiol. Don't know what that is all about? What exactly is the P good for besides protecting the uterus and helping with sleep? And I guess the estradiol helps with the hot flashes--raised body temp and also sleep. The estriol is suppose to help with incontinence and keeping your skin supple and supposedly protect against breast cancer (though some say the jury is still out on that one) and finally, I guess the T is suppose to help with energy and libido. IS THAT RIGHT? I just don't know and am just repeating what I have heard. I am so ignorant on all this HRT stuff. Thanks Avi for all your answers and help. God bless. Avalina

Avalina:
You don't have to be fearful..just careful. You did have a more positive response once the estriol was added in, right? If I were you, I'd continue with a small amount of 3% cream 10 days a month (P) and see how you do re: Crohns. I would definitely try some estriol given the recent research re: AI issues. I have a friend that has psoriasis and it gets much worse with estradiol alone, is okay on a Tri-est formula. According to Reiss, there is research out there that shows that P may be important in breast cancer. Some women find that P helps with anxiety.
Avi

Hi Avalina,

I am with you in all this confusion!
My compounding pharmacist sent me two audio cds to listen to to learn more about BHRT. I listened last night and now I am more confused than before. This American doctor (who specializes in HT and is a gyn.) says that the ratio between P and E should be 20 to 1 (P 20 times higher than E). This is not what I understood the ratio to be. He definitely is a big P fan....
Anyway, I also read something last night that is easy to understand and explains the roles of various hormones; what they do, why we need them and what the symptoms are of low and high levels.
I will try to post it here (computer dummy me) and if I can't I'll send it to you by PM.


c

http://www.NaturalNews.com/025340_estrogen...e_hormones.html

Avalina,

If you can access this link, it's an easy read and does a good job of explaining some things. If you can't access it, I'll send it by PM.

Hi Avi,

Thank you once again for your input. Yes, I have used 1/2 push of the pump of the estrogel in the am and a little bit of estriol cream inserted vaginally in the am. So far I am not experiencing any adverse reactions. I am still scared of the P because of what it has done to me in the past but I know it is beneficial--so I may give it another go. You mentioned using it 10 days per month. How do I know when to use it.........the beginning of the month--middle or end. I don't have a period anymore so I don't know what my natural cycle is. I wonder why I didn't do as well on the bi-est 50/50 cream that my local pharmacy compounds. Perhaps I wasn't absorbing it as well as the estrogel? All so confusing. Thanks for everything.

Hi Avalina,
I too have wondered if it's possible to develop a kind of a tolerance to estradiol and keep needing more and more and more. I feel like an estrogen junkie. From what you say though, it doesn't seem like you are using that much estradiol. Here's what I am taking right now: .1 Climara patch changed every five days, 2 mg of compounded estradiol cream daily, 4 drops (1 mg each) of compounded sublingual drops daily, 2 mg of oral estradiol daily that I dissolve between my gum and cheek, 200 mg of Prometrium for 12 days every month. I'm lean, muscular, and very active. I have no symptoms of excess estrogen, and I just can't seem to cut back at all. Even now I feel like I need more E because I'm not sleeping well. I've tried so many different things and I just don't know what to do any more. My husband wants me to go to Mayo Clinic for a physical to try to figure out what is going on with me. I just don't know...

Avalina:
You'll have to play around some, but if I were you, I would get my E where I felt pretty stable/good for at least a couple of months. If you don't know when your natural cycle is, you can go by the calendar or some women go by lunar cycles. 1/2 pump of Estrogel is not a lot...you may want to get your E up a little before adding in the P. Remind me what kind of P you have? do I remember 3% vaginal cream? If so, after your E is where you think it is good, maybe try somewhere between 5-10 mg for 10 days. Then see if you shed/ have a period. If not, you may have to up the P. If the P gives you uncomfortable side effects, you may also have to up the E during the time you are adding in the P.
I know its confusing..I've been reading/studying for years now and I still get rattled.
A lot of absorption IS the carrier vehicle (patch, oral cream, gel, etc.) and that seems to vary woman to woman. If you are able to get labs drawn, do so..also, as I said earlier, keep a journal...that will help a lot.
Avi

Hi Avi,

Thanks for your quick response and sorry for my delayed response. One of those crazy weeks. Anyhow--I am still using 1/2 of a push of the estrogel pump--so I believe about 38 mg. of estradiol per day. I'm just too afraid to take anymore. I seem to be managing okay on this amount. I know more would be better but I just have the estrogen fear factor going on. Yes, you have a good memory I was prescribed 3% progesteron cream. It comes in 10 ml. syringes. May I ask how much is 5-10 mg. in regards to the millimeters. Kind of confused on that? I worry about going off the P after I take it for the 10 day period because it seems to make my autoimmune disease-Crohns-worse once I go off--kind of exacerbates it. Also--what is the lunar cycle? After taking the P for 10 days--could I wean myself off of it. Also--what do you think about using the P for 10 days every third month? Anyhow, thanks for all your wonderful advice and knowledge.

Hi skiergirl,
Wow--so it looks like you are using about 5 mg. of estradiol per day....right? I take about .38 mg. a day and am scared of that amount. I have read elsewhere that women who are athletes and who work out seem to need more estradiol. Who knows............it is all so confusing.