I'm not talking about getting the flu from the shot because I know that's not how it can happen.
I'm saying that in the last 2 years after I've had the shot I feel worse for the better part of the winter. It started 2 years ago. I had the shot and soon after just felt horrible. It was about that time that full menopause symtoms took over my life. In the summer I felt better and then again after my shot last fall I spent the winter just not being myself.
I wonder if I should have the flu shot this year?
Full Version: Flu shot?
QUOTE (tela @ Aug 26 2009, 08:20 AM) 
I'm not talking about getting the flu from the shot because I know that's not how it can happen.
I'm saying that in the last 2 years after I've had the shot I feel worse for the better part of the winter. It started 2 years ago. I had the shot and soon after just felt horrible. It was about that time that full menopause symtoms took over my life. In the summer I felt better and then again after my shot last fall I spent the winter just not being myself.
I wonder if I should have the flu shot this year?
I'm saying that in the last 2 years after I've had the shot I feel worse for the better part of the winter. It started 2 years ago. I had the shot and soon after just felt horrible. It was about that time that full menopause symtoms took over my life. In the summer I felt better and then again after my shot last fall I spent the winter just not being myself.
I wonder if I should have the flu shot this year?
have you,ve been tested for guillen - barr? it can be contacted after a flu shot....
Tela,
There is no evidence to suggest that the flu shot even works! I found this for you --
The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) is looking at whether or not the flu vaccine is effective. Preliminary results indicate you'll get just as sick (with colds, flu, flu-like illnesses) if you got the vaccine than if you didn't. Why doesn't the vaccine work? In order to understand the answer, you'll need to understand some specifics about the flu vaccine and a bit about how immunity works.
Flu Vaccine Facts
There is no single virus that causes the flu; there is no one flu vaccine that protects against all of them. A flu vaccine is designed to confer immunity against the strains of flu that are expected to be most common and most serious. The vaccine is a sort of one-size-fits-all solution, even though there are more types of flu than covered by the vaccine and the flu types vary according to region. It takes time to produce vaccines, so a new vaccine can't be instantly produced when a new type of flu starts to cause problems.
The Vaccine and Immunity
The flu vaccine gives your body parts of inactivated flu viruses. These virus parts correspond to parts of proteins floating around in your body. When the virus part contacts a chemical 'match', it stimulates the body to produce the cells and antibodies that can remove this particular intruder. Antibodies are proteins that float in body fluids and can bind to specific chemical markers. When an antibody binds to a substance, it essentially marks it for destruction by other cells. However, an antibody for one type of flu won't necessarily bind to a virus part from another type of flu. You don't get protection against other viruses. A flu vaccine can only stimulate your immune system to protect you against the viruses in the vaccine, with some lesser protection against very similar ones.
Incomplete Protection Against Intended Targets
You may not even get protection against the intended virus. Why? First, because viruses change over time. The piece that was in the vaccine may not 'look' the same (chemically) as the real thing (months later, after all!). Second, the vaccine may not have given you enough stimulation to fight off the disease.
Let's review what's happened so far: the inactivated virus piece has found a chemical match in your body. This causes an immune response, so your body has started to gear up its production of antibodies and similar markers on cells that can mark the virus for destruction or kill it outright. It's like calling up an army for a battle. Will your body win the fight when the real virus comes to call? Yes, if you have enough defenses built up. However, you will still get the flu if:
your body isn't fast enough producing a response
get the vaccine and get exposed to the flu too soon (less than 2 weeks)
too much time between vaccination and exposure (loses its effectiveness over time)
you don't produce enough of a response
overwhelmed by exposure to a high level of the virus
your body couldn't recognize the initial virus piece (determined by genetics)
your body didn't make enough antibodies/cells (common in older people or people with suppressed immune systems)
the virus as changed beyond your body's ability to recognize it
the part of the virus that was in the vaccine can't be detected by the body in the intact virus
Waste of Time?
Yes and no... the flu vaccine will be more effective some years than others. The CDC predicted that the vaccine developed for the winter of 2003/2004 wasn't going to be effective against most cases of the flu because the strains covered by the vaccine weren't the same as the strains that were common. Highly targeted vaccines work, but only against their targets! There's no point in accepting the risks of a vaccine for a disease you can't get. When the flu vaccine is on-target, it's more effective. Even then, the vaccine isn't perfect because it uses inactivated virus. Is that bad? No. A live vaccine is more effective, but much more risky.
Bottom line: The flu vaccine varies in effectiveness from year-to-year. Even in a best-case scenario, it won't always protect against the flu. The CDC study didn't say that the vaccine didn't work; it says the vaccine didn't protect people from getting sick. Even with imperfect effectiveness, the vaccine is indicated for certain people. In my opinion, however, the vaccine isn't for everyone and certainly shouldn't be required for otherwise healthy people.
There is no evidence to suggest that the flu shot even works! I found this for you --
The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) is looking at whether or not the flu vaccine is effective. Preliminary results indicate you'll get just as sick (with colds, flu, flu-like illnesses) if you got the vaccine than if you didn't. Why doesn't the vaccine work? In order to understand the answer, you'll need to understand some specifics about the flu vaccine and a bit about how immunity works.
Flu Vaccine Facts
There is no single virus that causes the flu; there is no one flu vaccine that protects against all of them. A flu vaccine is designed to confer immunity against the strains of flu that are expected to be most common and most serious. The vaccine is a sort of one-size-fits-all solution, even though there are more types of flu than covered by the vaccine and the flu types vary according to region. It takes time to produce vaccines, so a new vaccine can't be instantly produced when a new type of flu starts to cause problems.
The Vaccine and Immunity
The flu vaccine gives your body parts of inactivated flu viruses. These virus parts correspond to parts of proteins floating around in your body. When the virus part contacts a chemical 'match', it stimulates the body to produce the cells and antibodies that can remove this particular intruder. Antibodies are proteins that float in body fluids and can bind to specific chemical markers. When an antibody binds to a substance, it essentially marks it for destruction by other cells. However, an antibody for one type of flu won't necessarily bind to a virus part from another type of flu. You don't get protection against other viruses. A flu vaccine can only stimulate your immune system to protect you against the viruses in the vaccine, with some lesser protection against very similar ones.
Incomplete Protection Against Intended Targets
You may not even get protection against the intended virus. Why? First, because viruses change over time. The piece that was in the vaccine may not 'look' the same (chemically) as the real thing (months later, after all!). Second, the vaccine may not have given you enough stimulation to fight off the disease.
Let's review what's happened so far: the inactivated virus piece has found a chemical match in your body. This causes an immune response, so your body has started to gear up its production of antibodies and similar markers on cells that can mark the virus for destruction or kill it outright. It's like calling up an army for a battle. Will your body win the fight when the real virus comes to call? Yes, if you have enough defenses built up. However, you will still get the flu if:
your body isn't fast enough producing a response
get the vaccine and get exposed to the flu too soon (less than 2 weeks)
too much time between vaccination and exposure (loses its effectiveness over time)
you don't produce enough of a response
overwhelmed by exposure to a high level of the virus
your body couldn't recognize the initial virus piece (determined by genetics)
your body didn't make enough antibodies/cells (common in older people or people with suppressed immune systems)
the virus as changed beyond your body's ability to recognize it
the part of the virus that was in the vaccine can't be detected by the body in the intact virus
Waste of Time?
Yes and no... the flu vaccine will be more effective some years than others. The CDC predicted that the vaccine developed for the winter of 2003/2004 wasn't going to be effective against most cases of the flu because the strains covered by the vaccine weren't the same as the strains that were common. Highly targeted vaccines work, but only against their targets! There's no point in accepting the risks of a vaccine for a disease you can't get. When the flu vaccine is on-target, it's more effective. Even then, the vaccine isn't perfect because it uses inactivated virus. Is that bad? No. A live vaccine is more effective, but much more risky.
Bottom line: The flu vaccine varies in effectiveness from year-to-year. Even in a best-case scenario, it won't always protect against the flu. The CDC study didn't say that the vaccine didn't work; it says the vaccine didn't protect people from getting sick. Even with imperfect effectiveness, the vaccine is indicated for certain people. In my opinion, however, the vaccine isn't for everyone and certainly shouldn't be required for otherwise healthy people.
Ten things you're not supposed to know about the swine flu vaccine
#1 - The vaccine production was "rushed" and the vaccine has never been tested on humans. Do you like to play guinea pig for Big Pharma? If so, line up for your swine flu vaccine this fall...
#2 - Swine flu vaccines contain dangerous adjuvants that cause an inflammatory response in the body. This is why they are suspected of causing autism and other neurological disorders.
#3 - The swine flu vaccine could actually increase your risk of death from swine flu by altering (or suppressing) your immune system response. There is zero evidence that even seasonal flu shots offer any meaningful protection for people who take the jabs. Vaccines are the snake oil of modern medicine.
#4 - Doctors still don't know why the 1976 swine flu vaccines paralyzed so many people. And that means they really have no clue whether the upcoming vaccine might cause the same devastating side effects. (And they're not testing it, either...)
#5 - Even if the swine flu vaccine kills you, the drug companies aren't responsible. The U.S. government has granted drug companies complete immunity against vaccine product liability. Thanks to that blanket immunity, drug companies have no incentive to make safe vaccines, because they only get paid based on quantity, not safety (zero liability).
#6 - No swine flu vaccine works as well as vitamin D to protect you from influenza. That's an inconvenient scientific fact that the U.S. government, the FDA and Big Pharma hope the people never realize.
#7 - Even if the swine flu vaccine actually works, mathematically speaking if everyone else around you gets the vaccine, you don't need one! (Because it can't spread through the population you hang with.) So even if you believe in the vaccine, all you need to do is encourage your friends to go get vaccinated...
#8 - Drug companies are making billions of dollars from the production of swine flu vaccines. That money comes out of your pocket -- even if you don't get the jab -- because it's all paid by the taxpayers.
#9 - When people start dying in larger numbers from the swine flu, rest assured that many of them will be the very people who got the swine flu vaccine. Doctors will explain this away with their typical Big Pharma logic: "The number saved is far greater than the number lost." Of course, the number "saved" is entirely fictional... imaginary... and exists only in their own warped heads.
#10 - The swine flu vaccine centers that will crop up all over the world in the coming months aren't completely useless: They will provide an easy way to identify large groups of really stupid people. (Too bad there isn't some sort of blue dye that we could tag 'em with for future reference...)
The lottery, they say, is a tax on people who can't do math. Similarly, flu vaccines are a tax on people who don't understand health.
#1 - The vaccine production was "rushed" and the vaccine has never been tested on humans. Do you like to play guinea pig for Big Pharma? If so, line up for your swine flu vaccine this fall...
#2 - Swine flu vaccines contain dangerous adjuvants that cause an inflammatory response in the body. This is why they are suspected of causing autism and other neurological disorders.
#3 - The swine flu vaccine could actually increase your risk of death from swine flu by altering (or suppressing) your immune system response. There is zero evidence that even seasonal flu shots offer any meaningful protection for people who take the jabs. Vaccines are the snake oil of modern medicine.
#4 - Doctors still don't know why the 1976 swine flu vaccines paralyzed so many people. And that means they really have no clue whether the upcoming vaccine might cause the same devastating side effects. (And they're not testing it, either...)
#5 - Even if the swine flu vaccine kills you, the drug companies aren't responsible. The U.S. government has granted drug companies complete immunity against vaccine product liability. Thanks to that blanket immunity, drug companies have no incentive to make safe vaccines, because they only get paid based on quantity, not safety (zero liability).
#6 - No swine flu vaccine works as well as vitamin D to protect you from influenza. That's an inconvenient scientific fact that the U.S. government, the FDA and Big Pharma hope the people never realize.
#7 - Even if the swine flu vaccine actually works, mathematically speaking if everyone else around you gets the vaccine, you don't need one! (Because it can't spread through the population you hang with.) So even if you believe in the vaccine, all you need to do is encourage your friends to go get vaccinated...
#8 - Drug companies are making billions of dollars from the production of swine flu vaccines. That money comes out of your pocket -- even if you don't get the jab -- because it's all paid by the taxpayers.
#9 - When people start dying in larger numbers from the swine flu, rest assured that many of them will be the very people who got the swine flu vaccine. Doctors will explain this away with their typical Big Pharma logic: "The number saved is far greater than the number lost." Of course, the number "saved" is entirely fictional... imaginary... and exists only in their own warped heads.
#10 - The swine flu vaccine centers that will crop up all over the world in the coming months aren't completely useless: They will provide an easy way to identify large groups of really stupid people. (Too bad there isn't some sort of blue dye that we could tag 'em with for future reference...)
The lottery, they say, is a tax on people who can't do math. Similarly, flu vaccines are a tax on people who don't understand health.
Here's a list of what's in the flu shot...................
* aluminum hydroxide
* aluminum phosphate
* ammonium sulfate
* amphotericin B
* animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
* dog kidney, monkey kidney,
* chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
* calf (bovine) serum
* betapropiolactone
* fetal bovine serum
* formaldehyde
* formalin
* gelatin
* glycerol
* human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
* hydrolized gelatin
* mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate®)
* monosodium glutamate (MSG)
* neomycin
* neomycin sulfate
* phenol red indicator
* phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
* potassium diphosphate
* potassium monophosphate
* polymyxin B
* polysorbate 20
* polysorbate 80
* porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
* residual MRC5 proteins
* sorbitol
* tri(n)butylphosphate,
* VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells, and
* washed sheep red blood
AND YOU WONDER WHY YOU FEEL BAD AFTER YOU GET ONE!!!!!
* aluminum hydroxide
* aluminum phosphate
* ammonium sulfate
* amphotericin B
* animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
* dog kidney, monkey kidney,
* chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
* calf (bovine) serum
* betapropiolactone
* fetal bovine serum
* formaldehyde
* formalin
* gelatin
* glycerol
* human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
* hydrolized gelatin
* mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate®)
* monosodium glutamate (MSG)
* neomycin
* neomycin sulfate
* phenol red indicator
* phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
* potassium diphosphate
* potassium monophosphate
* polymyxin B
* polysorbate 20
* polysorbate 80
* porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
* residual MRC5 proteins
* sorbitol
* tri(n)butylphosphate,
* VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells, and
* washed sheep red blood
AND YOU WONDER WHY YOU FEEL BAD AFTER YOU GET ONE!!!!!
QUOTE (tela @ Aug 26 2009, 07:20 AM)
I'm not talking about getting the flu from the shot because I know that's not how it can happen.
I'm saying that in the last 2 years after I've had the shot I feel worse for the better part of the winter. It started 2 years ago. I had the shot and soon after just felt horrible. It was about that time that full menopause symtoms took over my life. In the summer I felt better and then again after my shot last fall I spent the winter just not being myself.
I wonder if I should have the flu shot this year?
I'm saying that in the last 2 years after I've had the shot I feel worse for the better part of the winter. It started 2 years ago. I had the shot and soon after just felt horrible. It was about that time that full menopause symtoms took over my life. In the summer I felt better and then again after my shot last fall I spent the winter just not being myself.
I wonder if I should have the flu shot this year?
the last flu shot I had was about 7 years ago. My arm hurt soo bad from it for a long time. It was after that shot that i started going down hill with crazy symptoms. I have always suspected the flu shot had something to do with my health decline and horrid meno symptoms. Who knows. I have not had another shot since, I do know that I will never ever get another one!
QUOTE (Texasgirl @ Aug 26 2009, 09:23 AM)
Here's a list of what's in the flu shot...................
* aluminum hydroxide
* aluminum phosphate
* ammonium sulfate
* amphotericin B
* animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
* dog kidney, monkey kidney,
* chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
* calf (bovine) serum
* betapropiolactone
* fetal bovine serum
* formaldehyde
* formalin
* gelatin
* glycerol
* human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
* hydrolized gelatin
* mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate®)
* monosodium glutamate (MSG)
* neomycin
* neomycin sulfate
* phenol red indicator
* phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
* potassium diphosphate
* potassium monophosphate
* polymyxin B
* polysorbate 20
* polysorbate 80
* porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
* residual MRC5 proteins
* sorbitol
* tri(n)butylphosphate,
* VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells, and
* washed sheep red blood
AND YOU WONDER WHY YOU FEEL BAD AFTER YOU GET ONE!!!!!
* aluminum hydroxide
* aluminum phosphate
* ammonium sulfate
* amphotericin B
* animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
* dog kidney, monkey kidney,
* chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
* calf (bovine) serum
* betapropiolactone
* fetal bovine serum
* formaldehyde
* formalin
* gelatin
* glycerol
* human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
* hydrolized gelatin
* mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate®)
* monosodium glutamate (MSG)
* neomycin
* neomycin sulfate
* phenol red indicator
* phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
* potassium diphosphate
* potassium monophosphate
* polymyxin B
* polysorbate 20
* polysorbate 80
* porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
* residual MRC5 proteins
* sorbitol
* tri(n)butylphosphate,
* VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells, and
* washed sheep red blood
AND YOU WONDER WHY YOU FEEL BAD AFTER YOU GET ONE!!!!!
Hi TexasGirl,
I'm just curious, where did you acquire this list? While I agree with you on some of what you said in your earlier post, I have to say the all vaccines are NOT "the snake oil of modern medicine". Polio has been nearly eradicated through the use of vaccines, as have diptheria, typhus, malaria, and countless other deadly illnesses. Smallpox has been COMPLETELY eliminated in nature. Only small samples exist in a lab for study and actually I believe even those have been destroyed, if I'm not mistaken. Those diseases are the overwhelming reason why people didn't live past 30 or 40 in centuries past. Many millions lost their lives to them. Much of the reason why we have the lifespan and the good health that we enjoy in this country and other like nations is because we have vaccines to protect us from these killer diseases. I absolutely understand distrust of the "government and Big Pharm" to some extent. I do believe their are things we could be doing for ourselves naturally to prevent or even treat some of the problems we encounter. Not EVERYTHING should be treated with a pill!!! However, to make blanket generalizations is dangerous to the public health. There are many among us who would not be here at all if it were not for Jonas Salk developing the vaccine for polio. Remember, polio is a virus and it not only maimed but killed millions. We all got the vaccine and we were no worse for the wear and were protected from the disease. The evidence IS there that these vaccines work in overwhelming numbers. JMHO Oh and just so you know, I have had a flu shot last year for the first time in over 30 years and didn't get the flu. I also didn't get the flu in any of those previous 30+ years either so I'm not completely sold on it either. I'm a nurse and work in a hospital so am exposed to all kinds of stuff. I take good vitamins, eat right, try to get good rest and do what I can to boost my immune system. I laugh a LOT which helps, REALLY!!! We are supposed to get both the regular flu shot AND the Swine Flu shot this year at work or sign a release that we refuse (which has repercussions if we DO get sick). I'm thinking of refusing the Swine shot because I agree, it hasn't been tested adquately for my tastes. I don't believe everything "they" tell me but I DO look around and see the walking evidence everyday.
Hugs!
Jan
I have never gotten the flu shot as there is a history of reaction to it in family members (egg allergy) so I just steered clear....then, more and more info started to come out aboput the flu shot and a friend of mine, a nusre, shared with me the ingredients it, particularly the mercury and an Alzhiemer connection so I REALLY had no interest in it....
Now the Swine Flu is being hyped and I'm in a real dilemma for me and my family as I'm sure most of us are: DO WE/DON'T WE?????????????????????????
I was one who got the 1976 swine flu vaccine in hs and there is talk of a modest immunity from it still exisiting in us who did.....
And I remember, vividly, coming down with the Hong Kong flu in 1968 to this day how deathly sick I got as a 10 yr old...it was Christmas and all I could do was lay in bed, dying of thirst and only wanting a cold, cold glass of milk....
Maybe I'll take the family and run for them there hills......
Now the Swine Flu is being hyped and I'm in a real dilemma for me and my family as I'm sure most of us are: DO WE/DON'T WE?????????????????????????
I was one who got the 1976 swine flu vaccine in hs and there is talk of a modest immunity from it still exisiting in us who did.....
And I remember, vividly, coming down with the Hong Kong flu in 1968 to this day how deathly sick I got as a 10 yr old...it was Christmas and all I could do was lay in bed, dying of thirst and only wanting a cold, cold glass of milk....
Maybe I'll take the family and run for them there hills......
QUOTE (Jan677 @ Aug 26 2009, 10:49 AM)
Hi TexasGirl,
I'm just curious, where did you acquire this list? While I agree with you on some of what you said in your earlier post, I have to say the all vaccines are NOT "the snake oil of modern medicine". Polio has been nearly eradicated through the use of vaccines, as have diptheria, typhus, malaria, and countless other deadly illnesses. Smallpox has been COMPLETELY eliminated in nature. Only small samples exist in a lab for study and actually I believe even those have been destroyed, if I'm not mistaken. Those diseases are the overwhelming reason why people didn't live past 30 or 40 in centuries past. Many millions lost their lives to them. Much of the reason why we have the lifespan and the good health that we enjoy in this country and other like nations is because we have vaccines to protect us from these killer diseases. I absolutely understand distrust of the "government and Big Pharm" to some extent. I do believe their are things we could be doing for ourselves naturally to prevent or even treat some of the problems we encounter. Not EVERYTHING should be treated with a pill!!! However, to make blanket generalizations is dangerous to the public health. There are many among us who would not be here at all if it were not for Jonas Salk developing the vaccine for polio. Remember, polio is a virus and it not only maimed but killed millions. We all got the vaccine and we were no worse for the wear and were protected from the disease. The evidence IS there that these vaccines work in overwhelming numbers. JMHO Oh and just so you know, I have had a flu shot last year for the first time in over 30 years and didn't get the flu. I also didn't get the flu in any of those previous 30+ years either so I'm not completely sold on it either. I'm a nurse and work in a hospital so am exposed to all kinds of stuff. I take good vitamins, eat right, try to get good rest and do what I can to boost my immune system. I laugh a LOT which helps, REALLY!!! We are supposed to get both the regular flu shot AND the Swine Flu shot this year at work or sign a release that we refuse (which has repercussions if we DO get sick). I'm thinking of refusing the Swine shot because I agree, it hasn't been tested adquately for my tastes. I don't believe everything "they" tell me but I DO look around and see the walking evidence everyday.
Hugs!
Jan
I'm just curious, where did you acquire this list? While I agree with you on some of what you said in your earlier post, I have to say the all vaccines are NOT "the snake oil of modern medicine". Polio has been nearly eradicated through the use of vaccines, as have diptheria, typhus, malaria, and countless other deadly illnesses. Smallpox has been COMPLETELY eliminated in nature. Only small samples exist in a lab for study and actually I believe even those have been destroyed, if I'm not mistaken. Those diseases are the overwhelming reason why people didn't live past 30 or 40 in centuries past. Many millions lost their lives to them. Much of the reason why we have the lifespan and the good health that we enjoy in this country and other like nations is because we have vaccines to protect us from these killer diseases. I absolutely understand distrust of the "government and Big Pharm" to some extent. I do believe their are things we could be doing for ourselves naturally to prevent or even treat some of the problems we encounter. Not EVERYTHING should be treated with a pill!!! However, to make blanket generalizations is dangerous to the public health. There are many among us who would not be here at all if it were not for Jonas Salk developing the vaccine for polio. Remember, polio is a virus and it not only maimed but killed millions. We all got the vaccine and we were no worse for the wear and were protected from the disease. The evidence IS there that these vaccines work in overwhelming numbers. JMHO Oh and just so you know, I have had a flu shot last year for the first time in over 30 years and didn't get the flu. I also didn't get the flu in any of those previous 30+ years either so I'm not completely sold on it either. I'm a nurse and work in a hospital so am exposed to all kinds of stuff. I take good vitamins, eat right, try to get good rest and do what I can to boost my immune system. I laugh a LOT which helps, REALLY!!! We are supposed to get both the regular flu shot AND the Swine Flu shot this year at work or sign a release that we refuse (which has repercussions if we DO get sick). I'm thinking of refusing the Swine shot because I agree, it hasn't been tested adquately for my tastes. I don't believe everything "they" tell me but I DO look around and see the walking evidence everyday.
Hugs!
Jan
I think what is the scariest is the fact there has been NO studies on humans in regards to this vaccine....there are risks when getting a flu shot based on each individuals health/immune system etc. and pushing this shot htrough is pure lunacy IMO with no studies on it....there is a laundry list of prescription drugs that have been yanked from shelves after adverse effects on people, this following years of study in most cases!!!!!!!! Do we want a shot that just was produced injected into our arms with NO study done on it?
This is going to be a very concerning winter for us all!
I haven't got a flu shot in quite a few years....just too dang scared to,seems like everyone i know ends up feeling real bad after they get one...
[quote name='Jan677' date='Aug 26 2009, 08:49 AM' post='306182']
Hi TexasGirl,
I'm just curious, where did you acquire this list? While I agree with you on some of what you said in your earlier post, I have to say the all vaccines are NOT "the snake oil of modern medicine". Polio has been nearly eradicated through the use of vaccines, as have diptheria, typhus, malaria, and countless other deadly illnesses. Smallpox has been COMPLETELY eliminated in nature. Only small samples exist in a lab for study and actually I believe even those have been destroyed, if I'm not mistaken. Those diseases are the overwhelming reason why people didn't live past 30 or 40 in centuries past. Many millions lost their lives to them. Much of the reason why we have the lifespan and the good health that we enjoy in this country and other like nations is because we have vaccines to protect us from these killer diseases. I absolutely understand distrust of the "government and Big Pharm" to some extent. I do believe their are things we could be doing for ourselves naturally to prevent or even treat some of the problems we encounter. Not EVERYTHING should be treated with a pill!!! However, to make blanket generalizations is dangerous to the public health. There are many among us who would not be here at all if it were not for Jonas Salk developing the vaccine for polio. Remember, polio is a virus and it not only maimed but killed millions. We all got the vaccine and we were no worse for the wear and were protected from the disease. The evidence IS there that these vaccines work in overwhelming numbers. JMHO Oh and just so you know, I have had a flu shot last year for the first time in over 30 years and didn't get the flu. I also didn't get the flu in any of those previous 30+ years either so I'm not completely sold on it either. I'm a nurse and work in a hospital so am exposed to all kinds of stuff. I take good vitamins, eat right, try to get good rest and do what I can to boost my immune system. I laugh a LOT which helps, REALLY!!! We are supposed to get both the regular flu shot AND the Swine Flu shot this year at work or sign a release that we refuse (which has repercussions if we DO get sick). I'm thinking of refusing the Swine shot because I agree, it hasn't been tested adquately for my tastes. I don't believe everything "they" tell me but I DO look around and see the walking evidence everyday.
Hugs!
Jan
[quote]
If you'll notice, my research is ONLY based on FLU SHOTS, especially the SWINE FLU shot. I had the regular immunizations as a child just like everyone else. Polio, smallpox, DPT, etc. As for where I found my information, you can do your own research very easily in your public Library, or online, or in many medical journals. You WILL not hear any of this on TV, because, REMEMBER, we're not suppossed to know the TRUTH!
Hi TexasGirl,
I'm just curious, where did you acquire this list? While I agree with you on some of what you said in your earlier post, I have to say the all vaccines are NOT "the snake oil of modern medicine". Polio has been nearly eradicated through the use of vaccines, as have diptheria, typhus, malaria, and countless other deadly illnesses. Smallpox has been COMPLETELY eliminated in nature. Only small samples exist in a lab for study and actually I believe even those have been destroyed, if I'm not mistaken. Those diseases are the overwhelming reason why people didn't live past 30 or 40 in centuries past. Many millions lost their lives to them. Much of the reason why we have the lifespan and the good health that we enjoy in this country and other like nations is because we have vaccines to protect us from these killer diseases. I absolutely understand distrust of the "government and Big Pharm" to some extent. I do believe their are things we could be doing for ourselves naturally to prevent or even treat some of the problems we encounter. Not EVERYTHING should be treated with a pill!!! However, to make blanket generalizations is dangerous to the public health. There are many among us who would not be here at all if it were not for Jonas Salk developing the vaccine for polio. Remember, polio is a virus and it not only maimed but killed millions. We all got the vaccine and we were no worse for the wear and were protected from the disease. The evidence IS there that these vaccines work in overwhelming numbers. JMHO Oh and just so you know, I have had a flu shot last year for the first time in over 30 years and didn't get the flu. I also didn't get the flu in any of those previous 30+ years either so I'm not completely sold on it either. I'm a nurse and work in a hospital so am exposed to all kinds of stuff. I take good vitamins, eat right, try to get good rest and do what I can to boost my immune system. I laugh a LOT which helps, REALLY!!! We are supposed to get both the regular flu shot AND the Swine Flu shot this year at work or sign a release that we refuse (which has repercussions if we DO get sick). I'm thinking of refusing the Swine shot because I agree, it hasn't been tested adquately for my tastes. I don't believe everything "they" tell me but I DO look around and see the walking evidence everyday.
Hugs!
Jan
[quote]
If you'll notice, my research is ONLY based on FLU SHOTS, especially the SWINE FLU shot. I had the regular immunizations as a child just like everyone else. Polio, smallpox, DPT, etc. As for where I found my information, you can do your own research very easily in your public Library, or online, or in many medical journals. You WILL not hear any of this on TV, because, REMEMBER, we're not suppossed to know the TRUTH!
QUOTE (Texasgirl @ Aug 26 2009, 06:40 PM)
. You WILL not hear any of this on TV, because, REMEMBER, we're not suppossed to know the TRUTH!
The truth is out there for people who really want it. I feel sorry for the sheep
When my daughter was starting her freshman year I took her in for a meningococal vaccine. Two or three days later she had severe arthalgia and could barely climb the stairs. We reported this to her doctor who called the vaccine's manufacturer and were told that only 1% has this severe reaction to the vaccine. Her rheumatologist ruled out other causes such as lupus, rheumatoid arthritis. She still has lingering joint problems and probably always will. I believe it was vaccine related. I wish I had know they were given her the Menactra vaccine, which was brand new at the time. There was another vaccine that had been used for years but she got the one that was brand new.
I do not believe smallpox has been eliminated completely as we have been told.
A few years ago there was a small outbreak of 300 cases in Mexico. Also there is some information that there are small amounts of this and many other viruses locked up for future reference by our Government.
A few years ago there was a small outbreak of 300 cases in Mexico. Also there is some information that there are small amounts of this and many other viruses locked up for future reference by our Government.
QUOTE (Jan677 @ Aug 26 2009, 08:49 AM)
Hi TexasGirl,
I'm just curious, where did you acquire this list? While I agree with you on some of what you said in your earlier post, I have to say the all vaccines are NOT "the snake oil of modern medicine". Polio has been nearly eradicated through the use of vaccines, as have diptheria, typhus, malaria, and countless other deadly illnesses. Smallpox has been COMPLETELY eliminated in nature. Only small samples exist in a lab for study and actually I believe even those have been destroyed, if I'm not mistaken. Those diseases are the overwhelming reason why people didn't live past 30 or 40 in centuries past. Many millions lost their lives to them. Much of the reason why we have the lifespan and the good health that we enjoy in this country and other like nations is because we have vaccines to protect us from these killer diseases. I absolutely understand distrust of the "government and Big Pharm" to some extent. I do believe their are things we could be doing for ourselves naturally to prevent or even treat some of the problems we encounter. Not EVERYTHING should be treated with a pill!!! However, to make blanket generalizations is dangerous to the public health. There are many among us who would not be here at all if it were not for Jonas Salk developing the vaccine for polio. Remember, polio is a virus and it not only maimed but killed millions. We all got the vaccine and we were no worse for the wear and were protected from the disease. The evidence IS there that these vaccines work in overwhelming numbers. JMHO Oh and just so you know, I have had a flu shot last year for the first time in over 30 years and didn't get the flu. I also didn't get the flu in any of those previous 30+ years either so I'm not completely sold on it either. I'm a nurse and work in a hospital so am exposed to all kinds of stuff. I take good vitamins, eat right, try to get good rest and do what I can to boost my immune system. I laugh a LOT which helps, REALLY!!! We are supposed to get both the regular flu shot AND the Swine Flu shot this year at work or sign a release that we refuse (which has repercussions if we DO get sick). I'm thinking of refusing the Swine shot because I agree, it hasn't been tested adquately for my tastes. I don't believe everything "they" tell me but I DO look around and see the walking evidence everyday.
Hugs!
Jan
I'm just curious, where did you acquire this list? While I agree with you on some of what you said in your earlier post, I have to say the all vaccines are NOT "the snake oil of modern medicine". Polio has been nearly eradicated through the use of vaccines, as have diptheria, typhus, malaria, and countless other deadly illnesses. Smallpox has been COMPLETELY eliminated in nature. Only small samples exist in a lab for study and actually I believe even those have been destroyed, if I'm not mistaken. Those diseases are the overwhelming reason why people didn't live past 30 or 40 in centuries past. Many millions lost their lives to them. Much of the reason why we have the lifespan and the good health that we enjoy in this country and other like nations is because we have vaccines to protect us from these killer diseases. I absolutely understand distrust of the "government and Big Pharm" to some extent. I do believe their are things we could be doing for ourselves naturally to prevent or even treat some of the problems we encounter. Not EVERYTHING should be treated with a pill!!! However, to make blanket generalizations is dangerous to the public health. There are many among us who would not be here at all if it were not for Jonas Salk developing the vaccine for polio. Remember, polio is a virus and it not only maimed but killed millions. We all got the vaccine and we were no worse for the wear and were protected from the disease. The evidence IS there that these vaccines work in overwhelming numbers. JMHO Oh and just so you know, I have had a flu shot last year for the first time in over 30 years and didn't get the flu. I also didn't get the flu in any of those previous 30+ years either so I'm not completely sold on it either. I'm a nurse and work in a hospital so am exposed to all kinds of stuff. I take good vitamins, eat right, try to get good rest and do what I can to boost my immune system. I laugh a LOT which helps, REALLY!!! We are supposed to get both the regular flu shot AND the Swine Flu shot this year at work or sign a release that we refuse (which has repercussions if we DO get sick). I'm thinking of refusing the Swine shot because I agree, it hasn't been tested adquately for my tastes. I don't believe everything "they" tell me but I DO look around and see the walking evidence everyday.
Hugs!
Jan
QUOTE (stitchnanny @ Aug 26 2009, 08:48 PM)
I do not believe smallpox has been eliminated completely as we have been told.
A few years ago there was a small outbreak of 300 cases in Mexico. Also there is some information that there are small amounts of this and many other viruses locked up for future reference by our Government.
A few years ago there was a small outbreak of 300 cases in Mexico. Also there is some information that there are small amounts of this and many other viruses locked up for future reference by our Government.
I'm not at all surprised what viruses our government has "locked up for future reference." Scary thought.
They dont know how bad the swine flu will be or how many people will get it..they are only guessing. Most people who have gotten it, have gotten it mildly. More people die from regular flu, than have died so far from swine flu. The only thing is, it seems to spread easily. Those are things I have heard from different articles.
Also, it has been tested first by adults, then by children, but not many people were tested, and I will bet you we will never know the true results. Right now, they are testing it again, on of all people, the military. Once more, the true results are anybodys guess. They tell us what they want..and the media goes along with them, on everything.
Someone posted this letter on some other board. I cant verify the truthfulness of it..but, I will post it here. I guess what everyone should do, is google swine flu and begin to read articles and form your own decisions by what you read. Right now, I dont think I will get one. There wont be enough vaccine for everyone, anyway. I thought, I would take my chances and see what happens to those who are getting the vaccine early. It really worries me that they will push this on the school children.
Here is what I found posted on another forum:
Friends,
As you know, I seldom mention family as it is not a wise thing to do in my business, under the current tyrannical political climate.
However, I want you to know (and forward) what I am about to tell you. *** PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME AND EMAIL ADDRESS BEFORE FORWARDING HOWEVER. *** (Done - gb)
I have a son in Middle School. He just tested positive for the H1N1 "swine flu virus" this morning, after running a high grade fever yesterday. He brought it home from school.
The doctors office is treating with strong anti-viral medications and monitoring for the next seven days, during which time he cannot enter public areas, and the household is likely to be infected.
Here's what we learned from the doctors office this morning.
1) H1N1 has a 3- to 7 day incubation period before any symptoms show. During this period, the patient is in their most contagious state.
2) The FEDERAL and STATE government has advised ALL schools to KEEP QUIET where there are outbreaks and NOT share information, other than a generic statement concerning an entire school district, naming NO specific schools where an outbreak is known to exist.
3) Once symptoms show, the child is not allowed back to school until at least a week after symptoms subside. But keep in mind that by the time symptoms first appear, they have already infected others for 3 to 7 days, while they were at their most contagious.
4) The greatest concern with this virus is pneumonia. Our son seems to be managing fine at the moment, but we ask for your prayers for him and our household.
My point is this... The virus is real and it is out there. The government is keeping the school systems from naming schools where an outbreak exists. As a result, healthy children are in class with sick children not yet showing symptoms, but highly contagious.
Our doctor advised that medical offices have also been silenced on naming schools where an outbreak exists. The federal and state governments have a hush order on both the schools and the medical community. NO schools are being named until the spread is so bad that the school must be shut down!
This means that if you have children or grandchildren in school, you MUST be pro-active! Meet with your school administrators, ask IN WRITING whether or not the school has had any H1N1 outbreaks, and demand IN WRITING to be notified the minute the first case is identified in your school.
The ONLY way to avoid this illness is to keep "healthy" children OUT of schools where it is known that the virus exists. By the time the sick child is removed from the classroom with symptoms, he/she may have already infected the entire classroom. It appears to spread VERY easily, as our son is always VERY careful not to share food or drink, even at a public fountain, and washes his hands numerous times a day.
DO NOT let your healthy children go to school where H1N1 is known to be spreading. By the time your child shows symptoms, he/she will have infected dozens of others without knowing!
Once again, for the safety and security of my family *** PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME AND EMAIL ADDRESS BEFORE FORWARDING HOWEVER. ***
DO NOT TRUST THIS GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN. They are protecting ONLY themselves today.
Sender's name and contact info removed per his request.
_______
Thats the post. Now, I live in NY (the state not the city, but my news comes out of NYC). Last spring when cases were being found, they just sent those kids home. Meanwhile, schools stayed opened. There were just a few kids that had the flu..none were hospitalized. They finally decided to close this school, which was, I believe, a high school. However, they left open the schools of their siblings. This spread the virus to those schools. When a significant amount of those children had it..they closed those schools. In my opinion, knowing that the virus spreads quickly, and those who had it, had siblings in other schools..wouldnt it have made sense to close those schools along with the first one? But, they wont, you see, because if the school is closed, they lose state aid for that day. (Everything is about the money). Your state and your country doesnt care about your health..its all about the money. This is why, I believe that there is at least some truth to that email.
Also, it has been tested first by adults, then by children, but not many people were tested, and I will bet you we will never know the true results. Right now, they are testing it again, on of all people, the military. Once more, the true results are anybodys guess. They tell us what they want..and the media goes along with them, on everything.
Someone posted this letter on some other board. I cant verify the truthfulness of it..but, I will post it here. I guess what everyone should do, is google swine flu and begin to read articles and form your own decisions by what you read. Right now, I dont think I will get one. There wont be enough vaccine for everyone, anyway. I thought, I would take my chances and see what happens to those who are getting the vaccine early. It really worries me that they will push this on the school children.
Here is what I found posted on another forum:
Friends,
As you know, I seldom mention family as it is not a wise thing to do in my business, under the current tyrannical political climate.
However, I want you to know (and forward) what I am about to tell you. *** PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME AND EMAIL ADDRESS BEFORE FORWARDING HOWEVER. *** (Done - gb)
I have a son in Middle School. He just tested positive for the H1N1 "swine flu virus" this morning, after running a high grade fever yesterday. He brought it home from school.
The doctors office is treating with strong anti-viral medications and monitoring for the next seven days, during which time he cannot enter public areas, and the household is likely to be infected.
Here's what we learned from the doctors office this morning.
1) H1N1 has a 3- to 7 day incubation period before any symptoms show. During this period, the patient is in their most contagious state.
2) The FEDERAL and STATE government has advised ALL schools to KEEP QUIET where there are outbreaks and NOT share information, other than a generic statement concerning an entire school district, naming NO specific schools where an outbreak is known to exist.
3) Once symptoms show, the child is not allowed back to school until at least a week after symptoms subside. But keep in mind that by the time symptoms first appear, they have already infected others for 3 to 7 days, while they were at their most contagious.
4) The greatest concern with this virus is pneumonia. Our son seems to be managing fine at the moment, but we ask for your prayers for him and our household.
My point is this... The virus is real and it is out there. The government is keeping the school systems from naming schools where an outbreak exists. As a result, healthy children are in class with sick children not yet showing symptoms, but highly contagious.
Our doctor advised that medical offices have also been silenced on naming schools where an outbreak exists. The federal and state governments have a hush order on both the schools and the medical community. NO schools are being named until the spread is so bad that the school must be shut down!
This means that if you have children or grandchildren in school, you MUST be pro-active! Meet with your school administrators, ask IN WRITING whether or not the school has had any H1N1 outbreaks, and demand IN WRITING to be notified the minute the first case is identified in your school.
The ONLY way to avoid this illness is to keep "healthy" children OUT of schools where it is known that the virus exists. By the time the sick child is removed from the classroom with symptoms, he/she may have already infected the entire classroom. It appears to spread VERY easily, as our son is always VERY careful not to share food or drink, even at a public fountain, and washes his hands numerous times a day.
DO NOT let your healthy children go to school where H1N1 is known to be spreading. By the time your child shows symptoms, he/she will have infected dozens of others without knowing!
Once again, for the safety and security of my family *** PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME AND EMAIL ADDRESS BEFORE FORWARDING HOWEVER. ***
DO NOT TRUST THIS GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN. They are protecting ONLY themselves today.
Sender's name and contact info removed per his request.
_______
Thats the post. Now, I live in NY (the state not the city, but my news comes out of NYC). Last spring when cases were being found, they just sent those kids home. Meanwhile, schools stayed opened. There were just a few kids that had the flu..none were hospitalized. They finally decided to close this school, which was, I believe, a high school. However, they left open the schools of their siblings. This spread the virus to those schools. When a significant amount of those children had it..they closed those schools. In my opinion, knowing that the virus spreads quickly, and those who had it, had siblings in other schools..wouldnt it have made sense to close those schools along with the first one? But, they wont, you see, because if the school is closed, they lose state aid for that day. (Everything is about the money). Your state and your country doesnt care about your health..its all about the money. This is why, I believe that there is at least some truth to that email.
I emailed that to my children, who have children. I also emailed them this. Its better to be safe than sorry. I also kept a copy of this on my computer, just in case.
Recommended use of antivirals
Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 briefing note 8
GENEVA -- WHO is today issuing guidelines for the use of antivirals in the management of patients infected with the H1N1 pandemic virus.
The guidelines represent the consensus reached by an international panel of experts who reviewed all available studies on the safety and effectiveness of these drugs. Emphasis was placed on the use of oseltamivir and zanamivir to prevent severe illness and deaths, reduce the need for hospitalization, and reduce the duration of hospital stays.
The pandemic virus is currently susceptible to both of these drugs (known as neuraminidase inhibitors), but resistant to a second class of antivirals (the M2 inhibitors).
Worldwide, most patients infected with the pandemic virus continue to experience typical influenza symptoms and fully recover within a week, even without any form of medical treatment. Healthy patients with uncomplicated illness need not be treated with antivirals.
On an individual patient basis, initial treatment decisions should be based on clinical assessment and knowledge about the presence of the virus in the community.
In areas where the virus is circulating widely in the community, clinicians seeing patients with influenza-like illness should assume that the pandemic virus is the cause. Treatment decisions should not wait for laboratory confirmation of H1N1 infection.
This recommendation is supported by reports, from all outbreak sites, that the H1N1 virus rapidly becomes the dominant strain.
Treat serious cases immediately
Evidence reviewed by the panel indicates that oseltamivir, when properly prescribed, can significantly reduce the risk of pneumonia (a leading cause of death for both pandemic and seasonal influenza) and the need for hospitalization.
For patients who initially present with severe illness or whose condition begins to deteriorate, WHO recommends treatment with oseltamivir as soon as possible. Studies show that early treatment, preferably within 48 hours after symptom onset, is strongly associated with better clinical outcome. For patients with severe or deteriorating illness, treatment should be provided even if started later. Where oseltamivir is unavailable or cannot be used for any reason, zanamivir may be given.
This recommendation applies to all patient groups, including pregnant women, and all age groups, including young children and infants.
For patients with underlying medical conditions that increase the risk of more severe disease, WHO recommends treatment with either oseltamivir or zanamivir. These patients should also receive treatment as soon as possible after symptom onset, without waiting for the results of laboratory tests.
As pregnant women are included among groups at increased risk, WHO recommends that pregnant women receive antiviral treatment as soon as possible after symptom onset.
At the same time, the presence of underlying medical conditions will not reliably predict all or even most cases of severe illness. Worldwide, around 40% of severe cases are now occurring in previously healthy children and adults, usually under the age of 50 years.
Some of these patients experience a sudden and very rapid deterioration in their clinical condition, usually on day 5 or 6 following the onset of symptoms.
Clinical deterioration is characterized by primary viral pneumonia, which destroys the lung tissue and does not respond to antibiotics, and the failure of multiple organs, including the heart, kidneys, and liver. These patients require management in intensive care units using therapies in addition to antivirals.
Clinicians, patients, and those providing home-based care need to be alert to warning signals that indicate progression to a more severe form of illness, and take urgent action, which should include treatment with oseltamivir.
In cases of severe or deteriorating illness, clinicians may consider using higher doses of oseltamivir, and for a longer duration, than is normally prescribed.
Antiviral use in children
Following the recent publication of two clinical reviews, [1,2] some questions have been raised about the advisability of administering antivirals to children.
The two clinical reviews used data that were considered by WHO and its expert panel when developing the current guidelines and are fully reflected in the recommendations.
WHO recommends prompt antiviral treatment for children with severe or deteriorating illness, and those at risk of more severe or complicated illness. This recommendation includes all children under the age of five years, as this age group is at increased risk of more severe illness.
Otherwise healthy children, older than 5 years, need not be given antiviral treatment unless their illness persists or worsens.
Danger signs in all patients
Clinicians, patients, and those providing home-based care need to be alert to danger signs that can signal progression to more severe disease. As progression can be very rapid, medical attention should be sought when any of the following danger signs appear in a person with confirmed or suspected H1N1 infection:
•shortness of breath, either during physical activity or while resting
•difficulty in breathing
•turning blue
•bloody or coloured sputum
•chest pain
•altered mental status
•high fever that persists beyond 3 days
•low blood pressure.
In children, danger signs include fast or difficult breathing, lack of alertness, difficulty in waking up, and little or no desire to play.
Recommended use of antivirals
Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 briefing note 8
GENEVA -- WHO is today issuing guidelines for the use of antivirals in the management of patients infected with the H1N1 pandemic virus.
The guidelines represent the consensus reached by an international panel of experts who reviewed all available studies on the safety and effectiveness of these drugs. Emphasis was placed on the use of oseltamivir and zanamivir to prevent severe illness and deaths, reduce the need for hospitalization, and reduce the duration of hospital stays.
The pandemic virus is currently susceptible to both of these drugs (known as neuraminidase inhibitors), but resistant to a second class of antivirals (the M2 inhibitors).
Worldwide, most patients infected with the pandemic virus continue to experience typical influenza symptoms and fully recover within a week, even without any form of medical treatment. Healthy patients with uncomplicated illness need not be treated with antivirals.
On an individual patient basis, initial treatment decisions should be based on clinical assessment and knowledge about the presence of the virus in the community.
In areas where the virus is circulating widely in the community, clinicians seeing patients with influenza-like illness should assume that the pandemic virus is the cause. Treatment decisions should not wait for laboratory confirmation of H1N1 infection.
This recommendation is supported by reports, from all outbreak sites, that the H1N1 virus rapidly becomes the dominant strain.
Treat serious cases immediately
Evidence reviewed by the panel indicates that oseltamivir, when properly prescribed, can significantly reduce the risk of pneumonia (a leading cause of death for both pandemic and seasonal influenza) and the need for hospitalization.
For patients who initially present with severe illness or whose condition begins to deteriorate, WHO recommends treatment with oseltamivir as soon as possible. Studies show that early treatment, preferably within 48 hours after symptom onset, is strongly associated with better clinical outcome. For patients with severe or deteriorating illness, treatment should be provided even if started later. Where oseltamivir is unavailable or cannot be used for any reason, zanamivir may be given.
This recommendation applies to all patient groups, including pregnant women, and all age groups, including young children and infants.
For patients with underlying medical conditions that increase the risk of more severe disease, WHO recommends treatment with either oseltamivir or zanamivir. These patients should also receive treatment as soon as possible after symptom onset, without waiting for the results of laboratory tests.
As pregnant women are included among groups at increased risk, WHO recommends that pregnant women receive antiviral treatment as soon as possible after symptom onset.
At the same time, the presence of underlying medical conditions will not reliably predict all or even most cases of severe illness. Worldwide, around 40% of severe cases are now occurring in previously healthy children and adults, usually under the age of 50 years.
Some of these patients experience a sudden and very rapid deterioration in their clinical condition, usually on day 5 or 6 following the onset of symptoms.
Clinical deterioration is characterized by primary viral pneumonia, which destroys the lung tissue and does not respond to antibiotics, and the failure of multiple organs, including the heart, kidneys, and liver. These patients require management in intensive care units using therapies in addition to antivirals.
Clinicians, patients, and those providing home-based care need to be alert to warning signals that indicate progression to a more severe form of illness, and take urgent action, which should include treatment with oseltamivir.
In cases of severe or deteriorating illness, clinicians may consider using higher doses of oseltamivir, and for a longer duration, than is normally prescribed.
Antiviral use in children
Following the recent publication of two clinical reviews, [1,2] some questions have been raised about the advisability of administering antivirals to children.
The two clinical reviews used data that were considered by WHO and its expert panel when developing the current guidelines and are fully reflected in the recommendations.
WHO recommends prompt antiviral treatment for children with severe or deteriorating illness, and those at risk of more severe or complicated illness. This recommendation includes all children under the age of five years, as this age group is at increased risk of more severe illness.
Otherwise healthy children, older than 5 years, need not be given antiviral treatment unless their illness persists or worsens.
Danger signs in all patients
Clinicians, patients, and those providing home-based care need to be alert to danger signs that can signal progression to more severe disease. As progression can be very rapid, medical attention should be sought when any of the following danger signs appear in a person with confirmed or suspected H1N1 infection:
•shortness of breath, either during physical activity or while resting
•difficulty in breathing
•turning blue
•bloody or coloured sputum
•chest pain
•altered mental status
•high fever that persists beyond 3 days
•low blood pressure.
In children, danger signs include fast or difficult breathing, lack of alertness, difficulty in waking up, and little or no desire to play.
omg, that is so scary. the whole time i was reading it i kept picturing my 4th grade son going through it and being in the hospital and me freaking out about everything they do to him because i dont trust what they're doing and giving him.he has asthma and so does my 13 year old! im really scared for them. i feel like i need an ativan already today and its only 10am! i want to pull him out and just homeschool him but we will have to leave the house at SOME point! i dont know, im so mad at our government and i dont feel we can trust them at all to put us first, its all about the money. if the schools try to force the kids to get the shot, that will be the last day they will go to public schools!
This article was on Yahoo this evening. I certainly hope the H1N1 ends up being much milder than expected, but what is scary to me is...what if it is not? There are probably only about 70-80 ventilators available in our area for a population of over 260,000. What happens to those that develop respiratory failure if all the ventilators are already in use...just out of luck, I guess! We are starting to see a few cases in this area and it is only August. Our youngest is at college and cases are hitting the campus there already too. They cannot shut down the school system everytime a student gets the swine flu...it is going to be cropping up constantly throughout the entire school year. They can't close down the schools for the whole season. Beside the vaccine, your best defense is to wash your hands whenever you touch anything that someone else has touched. Especially make sure you do not touch your eyes, nose or mouth unless you have washed your hands first. Colds and flu are frequently spread by someone touching something as simple as a doorknob with the virus on it and then rubbing their eye.
I will be first in line for the seasonal flu and the H1N1 vaccines! I didn't use to get the flu shots until I got a relatively mild flu in 2005...then a couple days later developed a high fever and pneumonia. It took 3 weeks of 2 different antibiotics, breathing treatments every 6 hours, and a full 2 months until I started to feel fairly normal again. There isn't anything worse than feeling like you can't move very much air in and out of your lungs to breathe. While the flu vaccine is not always the right strain for the flu going around that season, I figure I still have a better chance with a vaccine than I do without. I haven't had the flu since I started getting the vaccine and I'm sure not going to pick this year to push my luck!
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Doctors are reporting a severe form of swine flu that goes straight to the lungs, causing severe illness in otherwise healthy young people and requiring expensive hospital treatment, the World Health Organization said on Friday.
Some countries are reporting that as many as 15 percent of patients infected with the new H1N1 pandemic virus need hospital care, further straining already overburdened healthcare systems, WHO said in an update on the pandemic.
"During the winter season in the southern hemisphere, several countries have viewed the need for intensive care as the greatest burden on health services," it said.
"Preparedness measures need to anticipate this increased demand on intensive care units, which could be overwhelmed by a sudden surge in the number of severe cases."
Earlier, WHO reported that H1N1 had reached epidemic levels in Japan, signaling an early start to what may be a long influenza season this year, and that it was also worsening in tropical regions.
"Perhaps most significantly, clinicians from around the world are reporting a very severe form of disease, also in young and otherwise healthy people, which is rarely seen during seasonal influenza infections," WHO said.
"In these patients, the virus directly infects the lung, causing severe respiratory failure. Saving these lives depends on highly specialized and demanding care in intensive care units, usually with long and costly stays."
MINORITIES AT RISK
Minority groups and indigenous populations may also have a higher risk of being severely ill with H1N1.
"In some studies, the risk in these groups is four to five times higher than in the general population," WHO said.
"Although the reasons are not fully understood, possible explanations include lower standards of living and poor overall health status, including a high prevalence of conditions such as asthma, diabetes and hypertension."
WHO said it was advising countries in the Northern Hemisphere to prepare for a second wave of pandemic spread. "Countries with tropical climates, where the pandemic virus arrived later than elsewhere, also need to prepare for an increasing number of cases," it said.
Every year, seasonal flu infects between 5 percent and 20 percent of a given population and kills between 250,000 and 500,000 people globally. Because hardly anyone has immunity to the new H1N1 virus, experts believe it will infect far more people than usual, as much as a third of the population.
It also disproportionately affects younger people, unlike seasonal flu which mainly burdens the elderly, and thus may cause more severe illness and deaths among young adults and children than seasonal flu does.
"Data continue to show that certain medical conditions increase the risk of severe and fatal illness. These include respiratory disease, notably asthma, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and immunosuppression," WHO said.
"When anticipating the impact of the pandemic as more people become infected, health officials need to be aware that many of these predisposing conditions have become much more widespread in recent decades, thus increasing the pool of vulnerable people."
WHO estimates that more than 230 million people globally have asthma, and more than 220 million have diabetes. Obesity may also worsen the risk of severe infection, WHO said.
The good news -- people infected with AIDS virus do not seem to be at special risk from H1N1, WHO said
I will be first in line for the seasonal flu and the H1N1 vaccines! I didn't use to get the flu shots until I got a relatively mild flu in 2005...then a couple days later developed a high fever and pneumonia. It took 3 weeks of 2 different antibiotics, breathing treatments every 6 hours, and a full 2 months until I started to feel fairly normal again. There isn't anything worse than feeling like you can't move very much air in and out of your lungs to breathe. While the flu vaccine is not always the right strain for the flu going around that season, I figure I still have a better chance with a vaccine than I do without. I haven't had the flu since I started getting the vaccine and I'm sure not going to pick this year to push my luck!
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Doctors are reporting a severe form of swine flu that goes straight to the lungs, causing severe illness in otherwise healthy young people and requiring expensive hospital treatment, the World Health Organization said on Friday.
Some countries are reporting that as many as 15 percent of patients infected with the new H1N1 pandemic virus need hospital care, further straining already overburdened healthcare systems, WHO said in an update on the pandemic.
"During the winter season in the southern hemisphere, several countries have viewed the need for intensive care as the greatest burden on health services," it said.
"Preparedness measures need to anticipate this increased demand on intensive care units, which could be overwhelmed by a sudden surge in the number of severe cases."
Earlier, WHO reported that H1N1 had reached epidemic levels in Japan, signaling an early start to what may be a long influenza season this year, and that it was also worsening in tropical regions.
"Perhaps most significantly, clinicians from around the world are reporting a very severe form of disease, also in young and otherwise healthy people, which is rarely seen during seasonal influenza infections," WHO said.
"In these patients, the virus directly infects the lung, causing severe respiratory failure. Saving these lives depends on highly specialized and demanding care in intensive care units, usually with long and costly stays."
MINORITIES AT RISK
Minority groups and indigenous populations may also have a higher risk of being severely ill with H1N1.
"In some studies, the risk in these groups is four to five times higher than in the general population," WHO said.
"Although the reasons are not fully understood, possible explanations include lower standards of living and poor overall health status, including a high prevalence of conditions such as asthma, diabetes and hypertension."
WHO said it was advising countries in the Northern Hemisphere to prepare for a second wave of pandemic spread. "Countries with tropical climates, where the pandemic virus arrived later than elsewhere, also need to prepare for an increasing number of cases," it said.
Every year, seasonal flu infects between 5 percent and 20 percent of a given population and kills between 250,000 and 500,000 people globally. Because hardly anyone has immunity to the new H1N1 virus, experts believe it will infect far more people than usual, as much as a third of the population.
It also disproportionately affects younger people, unlike seasonal flu which mainly burdens the elderly, and thus may cause more severe illness and deaths among young adults and children than seasonal flu does.
"Data continue to show that certain medical conditions increase the risk of severe and fatal illness. These include respiratory disease, notably asthma, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and immunosuppression," WHO said.
"When anticipating the impact of the pandemic as more people become infected, health officials need to be aware that many of these predisposing conditions have become much more widespread in recent decades, thus increasing the pool of vulnerable people."
WHO estimates that more than 230 million people globally have asthma, and more than 220 million have diabetes. Obesity may also worsen the risk of severe infection, WHO said.
The good news -- people infected with AIDS virus do not seem to be at special risk from H1N1, WHO said
For those of you ready to "jump in line" for the Swine flu vaccine.....remember, this shot has NOT been approved by the FDA. They're saying it HAS NOT been tested enough. And who knows what they consider "enough."
With that list of what's in the Swine flu vaccine, it's couldn't be tested enough for me!
NO THANK YOU.
With that list of what's in the Swine flu vaccine, it's couldn't be tested enough for me!
NO THANK YOU.
Testing is still ongoing, the vaccine will not be given until after the FDA has approved the results following testing. FDA approval is expected around mid-October, hence the reason the vaccine will not available until November.
QUOTE (NiteOwl @ Aug 29 2009, 08:37 AM)
Testing is still ongoing, the vaccine will not be given until after the FDA has approved the results following testing. FDA approval is expected around mid-October, hence the reason the vaccine will not available until November.
Well then, I guess after the FDA give it their "stamp of approval" , it'll be OK to inject all that stuff in your body!
Hey.......GO FOR IT!!!!
This really makes you nuts. In this article..they are calling it mild. (I will post the article at the end of the post). You have to wonder what to believe. The media seems to be in a frenzy all of the time. I think back to after 9/11, and all of the terrorist scare stories. Like how they could use those suitcase nukes, how they could release chemicals in subways. To ward off fear, they told us to stock up on duct tape and plastic, when anyone in their right mind knows..if you could breathe in your taped up room, then whatever was outside, is coming in.
The next thing they scare the devil out of us with was anthrax. Would you believe I wouldnt allow my husband to put the mail down on the kitchen table? I put a shoe box on the table, in the spot he always plopped the mail on, before going thru it. I think he thought I had flipped out.
So, he we have this swine flu thing..and you dont know if we should be very concerned or a little concerned. I wouldnt trust the FDA. Dont make that be the reason you decide to take the shot. Look at all of these poison pills they had to recall in the past several years. And look at the side effects of some of the poisons they are throwing at us every night on TV. Half of them have the cure be worse than ailment. I just saw one today for Chantix, the stop smoking drug. After listening to the side effects, you are almost better off smoking.
So..heres the article and pay attention to the part where it calls swine flu, mild.
Schools around globe mull swine flu closures
U.S. will cancel classes only in extreme situations, but plans vary elsewhere
updated 3:23 p.m. ET, Sun., Aug 30, 2009
LONDON - As schools around the world reopen, health authorities are bracing for a major spike in swine flu.
Schools are ideal breeding grounds for the virus. Not only are children more susceptible than adults to swine flu, but the crowded, sometimes unsanitary conditions gives the virus a perfect chance to spread.
Countries on both sides of the Atlantic are closely monitoring schools, yet some have vastly different plans on whether they will close schools to fight the epidemic.
Both the U.S. and the United Kingdom say they will not close schools except under exceptional circumstances. U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said a massive school closing wouldn't stop swine flu.
Experts say school closures simply buy time. They don't reduce the number of cases; they just spread them over a longer period. Closing schools is also disruptive and costly as working parents must juggle their schedules to take care of their children.
"With a mild virus like swine flu, I think it is not necessary to close schools," said Simon Cauchemez, a flu expert at London's Imperial College. "The only reason you would do it in the current outbreak is if you're afraid the health care system will be completely overwhelmed."
In France, however, officials may close schools if as few as three students have flu symptoms. The French education minister, Luc Chatel, recently outlined plans to shut schools for at least six days if three students in the same school catch swine flu. If many schools are closed, Chatel said France is ready to broadcast lessons on TV and radio.
Other European nations, including Austria, Germany, Spain and Switzerland, say they will consider closing schools on a case-by-case basis.
When swine flu first broke out in the spring, authorities in Mexico, the U.S., Japan, Germany, Britain and elsewhere closed schools for several weeks. Coupled with other measures such as intensified testing, flu treatment and the canceling of concerts, sports events and other mass gatherings, that seemed to slow the virus for a while.
But officials gave up shutting schools once swine flu became entrenched in communities.
Dr. Keiji Fukuda, the World Health Organization's flu chief, said the U.N. health agency did not have any blanket recommendations on closing schools. He said countries could consider closing schools in the fall, but noted that children aren't the only ones to spread swine flu.
"We're four months into this pandemic ... a lot of people in different age groups are able to spread infection," he said.
In previous flu pandemics, cases have surged almost as soon as schools reopened, but that also could be due to cooler weather, which makes it easier for flu viruses to spread, Fukuda said.
Still, if swine flu becomes more deadly, all bets may be off.
"If the disease becomes more severe, the balance might change," Cauchemez said. "The huge economic and social costs of closure might not seem so bad if the virus causes more deaths later."
For some parents, the inconvenience of school closures is worth the chance to spare their kids swine flu.
"More schools should take the necessary precautions to stop the spread of swine flu," said Kassidy Choi Schagrin, whose son attends Eton, an elite British private school that closed for about a week in the spring after several students caught the virus.
"I was rather grateful that the school closed instead of exposing healthy children and causing an epidemic," Schagrin said. "When it concerns a child, it is always better to be safe than sorry."
The next thing they scare the devil out of us with was anthrax. Would you believe I wouldnt allow my husband to put the mail down on the kitchen table? I put a shoe box on the table, in the spot he always plopped the mail on, before going thru it. I think he thought I had flipped out.
So, he we have this swine flu thing..and you dont know if we should be very concerned or a little concerned. I wouldnt trust the FDA. Dont make that be the reason you decide to take the shot. Look at all of these poison pills they had to recall in the past several years. And look at the side effects of some of the poisons they are throwing at us every night on TV. Half of them have the cure be worse than ailment. I just saw one today for Chantix, the stop smoking drug. After listening to the side effects, you are almost better off smoking.
So..heres the article and pay attention to the part where it calls swine flu, mild.
Schools around globe mull swine flu closures
U.S. will cancel classes only in extreme situations, but plans vary elsewhere
updated 3:23 p.m. ET, Sun., Aug 30, 2009
LONDON - As schools around the world reopen, health authorities are bracing for a major spike in swine flu.
Schools are ideal breeding grounds for the virus. Not only are children more susceptible than adults to swine flu, but the crowded, sometimes unsanitary conditions gives the virus a perfect chance to spread.
Countries on both sides of the Atlantic are closely monitoring schools, yet some have vastly different plans on whether they will close schools to fight the epidemic.
Both the U.S. and the United Kingdom say they will not close schools except under exceptional circumstances. U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said a massive school closing wouldn't stop swine flu.
Experts say school closures simply buy time. They don't reduce the number of cases; they just spread them over a longer period. Closing schools is also disruptive and costly as working parents must juggle their schedules to take care of their children.
"With a mild virus like swine flu, I think it is not necessary to close schools," said Simon Cauchemez, a flu expert at London's Imperial College. "The only reason you would do it in the current outbreak is if you're afraid the health care system will be completely overwhelmed."
In France, however, officials may close schools if as few as three students have flu symptoms. The French education minister, Luc Chatel, recently outlined plans to shut schools for at least six days if three students in the same school catch swine flu. If many schools are closed, Chatel said France is ready to broadcast lessons on TV and radio.
Other European nations, including Austria, Germany, Spain and Switzerland, say they will consider closing schools on a case-by-case basis.
When swine flu first broke out in the spring, authorities in Mexico, the U.S., Japan, Germany, Britain and elsewhere closed schools for several weeks. Coupled with other measures such as intensified testing, flu treatment and the canceling of concerts, sports events and other mass gatherings, that seemed to slow the virus for a while.
But officials gave up shutting schools once swine flu became entrenched in communities.
Dr. Keiji Fukuda, the World Health Organization's flu chief, said the U.N. health agency did not have any blanket recommendations on closing schools. He said countries could consider closing schools in the fall, but noted that children aren't the only ones to spread swine flu.
"We're four months into this pandemic ... a lot of people in different age groups are able to spread infection," he said.
In previous flu pandemics, cases have surged almost as soon as schools reopened, but that also could be due to cooler weather, which makes it easier for flu viruses to spread, Fukuda said.
Still, if swine flu becomes more deadly, all bets may be off.
"If the disease becomes more severe, the balance might change," Cauchemez said. "The huge economic and social costs of closure might not seem so bad if the virus causes more deaths later."
For some parents, the inconvenience of school closures is worth the chance to spare their kids swine flu.
"More schools should take the necessary precautions to stop the spread of swine flu," said Kassidy Choi Schagrin, whose son attends Eton, an elite British private school that closed for about a week in the spring after several students caught the virus.
"I was rather grateful that the school closed instead of exposing healthy children and causing an epidemic," Schagrin said. "When it concerns a child, it is always better to be safe than sorry."
Thought you might like to take a look at this --
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ve-Disease.aspx
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...ve-Disease.aspx
Both of those articles have very good information. EVERYONE should read them and watch the videos before even THINKING about getting the Swine flu shot. And tell your loved ones also! Thanks for posting these.
Geeze..the more you read, the more confused you get.
I have never gotten a flu shot and have not had the flu in 30 years. I think I have a good immune system. I do not plan on getting the swine flu vaccine. This could come back to bite me, but for now, I plan to practice what I've practiced for years - lots of hand washing, covering my mouth when coughing, taking my vitamins, getting rest, and staying away from people who are ill.
WriterMom
WriterMom
I just found something else of interest. Watch the vid.
Makers Of Vaccination Refuse To Take H1N1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SmFxyust0
Makers Of Vaccination Refuse To Take H1N1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SmFxyust0
This is the sickest summer my family and I have ever had. Starting in July, each week, one or the other of us was down with a virus. It seemed like it mutated into something slightly different onto next person. I think we are all this week okay. Phew!
Two weeks ago, I took my son to the hospital ER (our first of two visits). We were there all evening; he was terribly ill. I took the opportunity of asking everyone I came into contact with about whether or not they thought people should take a flu shot this year. They all said the same thing; that they had to take it...they had no choice. They said it in such a way that kinda left me hanging, and I wondered if they wanted to take it you know? The nurse directly looking after my son said that he didn't think that the swine flu would be that different a strain as most other years and added that it is already here now. He added too that the vaccine won't be available until November. So I don't know what to do. One of my sons doesn't want to take the shot; I don't know what the other one wants to do - but because of the summer we just had, I am very worried for them.
Two weeks ago, I took my son to the hospital ER (our first of two visits). We were there all evening; he was terribly ill. I took the opportunity of asking everyone I came into contact with about whether or not they thought people should take a flu shot this year. They all said the same thing; that they had to take it...they had no choice. They said it in such a way that kinda left me hanging, and I wondered if they wanted to take it you know? The nurse directly looking after my son said that he didn't think that the swine flu would be that different a strain as most other years and added that it is already here now. He added too that the vaccine won't be available until November. So I don't know what to do. One of my sons doesn't want to take the shot; I don't know what the other one wants to do - but because of the summer we just had, I am very worried for them.
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