Well ladies
I have just bitten the bullet! I have mixed the tiniest amount of Premarin cream into some lubricant and applied a smear
I have tried estriol for vaginal dryness but my body is totally intolerant of it even in tiny amounts. I get terribly depressed and emotional on it.
I have been really afraid of the Premarin but I am feeling brave at present as I just had a testosterone top up . I applied the Premarin half an hour ago and I feel slightly woozy. I am ok with that but I can't stand the emotional stuff that follows with the estriol so here's hoping I won't get that!
If anyone else has any good or bad to say about their experiences with it I would be interested.
janet c

I am replying to my own post because I now have the answer and it is interesting and rather thrilling!
I could feel last night after I applied the Premarin that I wasn't going to react to it in the strong way I have done on the bios. I was so confident that after an hour I applied some more. I thought I might as well try it once properly and get it over with.
Apart from a bit of a headache I felt ok and this morning I have woken up feeling fine.
If I use estriol I can't stop weeping and estradiol made me very ill!
I have realised I must be allergic to the bios. I have never thought of going near Premarin because it has a lot of ethical issues (what with the horse urine) but it works for me!
I notice that there are other ladies here who can't tolerate the bios. Maybe the Premarin would be ok? I can't believe I am recommending it because I really thought it was supposed to be deadly!

I am really pleased I have found something that doesn't make me feel dreadfully ill
janet c

Hi janet,
I am so pleased that this appears to be working for you. However, do give it time before you come to any strong conclusions. We do not want you to suffer too much disappointment if you suddenly react negatively. I have everything crossed for you that this is the answer.
This is something I have been saying for a while. It has been my theory that we do not see many ladies on here who are taking the synthetics because they actually feel rather good on them and are pretty satisfied with the results. Many doctors will tell you that the bioidenticals are much too hit and miss to be worth all the aggro. I have to admit that I do not know. I just look in from the outside.
Who said that Premarin was 'deadly'? Someone who is seeking to sell BHRT perhaps? I think that we have to be very careful when we listen to statements like this. Premarin has been used successfully for years. It is certainly not a perfect solution but all the risks have been clearly stated, documented and researched.
I too hate the way it is produced. I suspect that if Wyeth quarupled the price on top of the recent price rise they might be able to ensure that those poor horses are cared for in a humane manner. Sadly I do not think that will happen, do you? The world remains a very imperfect place.

Anyway, delighted for you. I love good news. Keep us posted on your progress.

XIII

Thanks so much for your post
Don't worry, I am not going to slather it on or start using it as an every day HRT. I just wanted a little dab of a hormone cream that would do the job without sending me off the planet!
I feel rather well without estrogen now so I would never start using it as a regular thing.
I have just been swimming and walked home three miles stopping on the way for a half hour chat with someone. If I had used a dot of estriol last night I would be probably still in bed crying so the difference is remarkable
I feel sure now that I must be allergic to the bios.
By the way I think it was you on another thread that talked about Premarin and it was your wise words that stopped me from being so afraid of trying it -so thank you

janet c

Still doing OK on the Premarin cream. It gives me all the benefits of estriol without the horrid side effects! I am finding myself feeling much more feminine in general without bursting into tears all the time and there is a definite boost to my libido.
It has taken me so long to get to this point-I thought I would never find anything that I could tolerate. I am so surprised and delighted!
I have read that using estrogen vaginally increases the blood serum levels to quite a high level, which is why the topical doses are always lower that the oral ones.
Does this mean I have a chance of ridding myself of hot flushes with just the cream?
I don't really want to start taking pills as they usually upset my stomach.
The ideal would be a patch but Premarin doesn't come in a patch form.
Hooray! hooray! hooray!
I am so happy

Janet,
I am glad you finally found something that works. I know you have had a difficult time of it. I hope it continues to work for you. Do keep us updated.

Well here I am with an update.
I have been to Devon for what should have been a wonderful holiday but in nearly every respect it has been dire!
I used a little Premarin cream for about 5 days straight-just a tiny dab each day. I felt a bit weird but nothing like as bad as with estriol. I had a few days break and then last week, two days before my holiday I did a tiny dab again.

I didn't feel my usual enthusiasm for going to our favourite place in all the world. It has a fantastic surfing beach and we love to body board. It also has many romantic memories for us.

Firstly the weather was dreadful. It was cool, cloudy and rained every day except one. I had the most dreadful depression which was not just from the weather. I had an inertia which I couldn't shake off and actually as the days went by a feeling of depression mixed with agitation got worse.

The only part that was good was that I felt very affectionate and romantic which I haven't felt like for years. I felt sexually like a teenager and it was wonderful!
However there is more to a holiday (and life) than that and the rest of the time I just felt completely awful- near to tears and just wanted to come home.
If I hadn't been using the Premarin I would have been a bit hacked off about the weather but this was nothing to do with it. I just felt plain awful in a hormonal way.

This Premarin seems to have a very long lasting effect! If I use estriol I feel terrible but it wears off in a couple of days. I am on to day 10 since my last dab and the effects still haven't worn off.

Now I don't know what to do. I have completely rediscovered feelings that I had forgotten I had ever had. I have fallen totally back in love with my hubby (as opposed to just loving him) and I know its the hormones.

You told me not to get too excited about the effects and you were right. I don't like some of them and I don't know what to do because I love the others!

The next step is a tiny dab just once and then wait and see I suppose. I have to get back to feeling normal again first though.

Totally fed up!

janet c

I tried it for a very short time and my hair started to fall out in clumps, and I got very weepy. Sorry...

I have since switched to Ovestin Cream and no side effects. I only use it now 2-3 times a week. Love it.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Ovestin is estriol. Can't use it-it makes me VERY weepy and anxious. I have run out of options I am afraid.

Thanks anyway

Have you tried a tiny dab of Estrace cream? This works for me, without any sadness. I tried the compounded Estriol cream and found it had a much better effect on vaginal tissue, but it makes me emotionally a bit off. The Estrace cream works for me. I always use less than any recommended dose, pretty much for any medication i've ever used.

I live in UK and I can't get Estrace here. Is it estradiol cream? I have thought about asking my doctor for an estradiol gel-there is one we can get here in UK and maybe I could dilute it with a lubricant. However I was allergic to the estradiol patch-couldn't use it even when cut up really small, it made me really ill so I don't know if it would be any better.

The thing is I don't use systemic HRT-only testosterone and I have found so far that both the estriol and particularly the Premarin really switch my libido on properly. I find testosterone has helped but there has always been a missing link and the estrogen creams seem to do the trick.

janet c

I think trying a smaller dose so maybe you only get the good effects instead of the bad. It sounds as if it does work to an extent but has those lousy side effects too.

What do you find with the Testosterone? Increased libido or simply able to enjoy being intimate more? I have been on it for nearly two weeks now and I THINK I can tell a difference. I seem to have a bit more energy but last night, WOWZA. During intimacy I didn't have moments of drying out and we went and went and went. The orgasms were not huge ones but I was aroused the whole time. Before I would have small orgasms then a huge finally and I was done. So this experience last night was a new one and I have to say, I liked it! My hubby even stated "I think that Testosterone is working" !

Well as you probably know I had cancer so I was not allowed ERT for three years. I started using testosterone alone about 18 months after my surgery. At that time I was physically numb and it did bring back all my sensations. It was so long since I had felt anything sexually that I was really happy. I was able to have orgasms as long as I kept the levels quite high but I will be honest and say the sex felt quite unemotional. I guess I was feeling sex like a man does-all sensation and not much emotion (or is that not fair?) It also made me feel quite aggressive sometimes-mainly with my hubby. The paradox is that because he is older he has mellowed right out and is making a fair bit of estrogen himself (as men do as they age) so he didn't like me being so hard when he felt so soft.

I actually had been feeling bored with sex in the past few months because the testosterone made me feel rather cold. That is not what we women are about, is it?

The vaginal estrogen has made me feel more loving and has connected up my emotions to my physical feelings in a more womanly way, and that is what I love. I also don't need to have such a high level of testosterone to feel sexual. When we were on holiday last week we made love as opposed to having sex and it was how it used to be when we first got together.
In your case I think you are already on ERT aren't you, so the testosterone is increasing your sex drive but in a womanly way, which is why it was so good for you. That is how it should be.

janet c

Ah ha! Your post makes much sense. I was having manly sex lol! Really though I think you have touched on something there. I didn't have those whooooo hoooo orgasms instead it was in mild surges. Sure it was nice to be the energizer bunny but not so positive I want it like that forever either! Thanks for your insight.

I really hope you find a combination that works that will not give you many risks.

Hi janet,

Yes, Estrace is estradiol cream. I never use more than 1mg (the first line on the applicator); I try to use it 1x per week but often forget for a couple weeks. I have had good results with it. If you haven't tried it yet, it's worth trying. and certainly better in my mind than Premarin -- the inhumane treatment of the mares, kept pregnant and standing up their whole lives, then sent for slaughter. No thank you. also, my mother was on Premarin and got breast cancer. I would stay away from it.

Two years ago I started getting episodes of night-time heat. Not normal hot flashes with sweating, but like a sunburn, so they were atypical hot flashes. I started using the Estrace vaginal cream and they completely disappeared. I have never had one since. I didn't do particularly well on Estriol cream (lowered my mood), but the estradiol cream has been great. Also helped my bladder tremendously; not waking up multiple times at night anymore to pee.

good luck and I hope you find the answer.

L2

Thanks for your input.
As I have already said I cannot get Estrace in UK and I seem to be allergic to estradiol anyway.
Premarin is made differently I agree, but I am only using a tiny amount, a dot of cream twice a week -not a full-on dose.
I am well aware of the breast cancer risk, having already had uterine cancer which was hormonally driven, although surprisingly I was not on Premarin or any other systemic estrogen at the time. I was actually using Vagifem, which is what the doctors think caused my cancer-Estradiol I believe?
All HRT can cause cancer and the Premarin debate is more an ethical one in my view.
If you were in my situation and that of others who are allergic to the bios then I am sure you, too would consider Premarin as the only option. Believe me it is a last resort for me and whether or not it is ethical doesn't seem quite so important when you are the one who is suffering.
I may give the estradiol one last try but it would have to be such a miniscule dose it probably wouldn't be of any use.

janet c

Just checking in to say that I started using the Premarin cream again last Wednesday-and have been very gradually increasing the amount. I am finding I am ok on it at present.

I think I probably was so pleased with it when I first tried it that I used a bit too much, too quickly hence the bad effects. It seems to be very strong and long lasting and I only need a little.

Anyhow it does not affect me adversly in the way that estriol and estradiol did. I just need to take it slowly.
I am very pleased with it as it was my last resort

Hugs to all

janet c