I'M 39 AND HAVING MAJOR PERIMENOPAUSAL ISSUES. I HAVE INSOMNIA, PALPS, CYCLIC MIGRAINES, BAD PMS, ACHING BODY, ACNE, FACIAL HAIR, ANXIETY ...WELL MY DR PUT ME ON PROGESTERONE CREAM FROM A COMPOUNDING PHARMACY THAT DID SALIVA TESTING ON ME, WHICH HE SAID I WAS ON ESTROGEN DOMINANT,,,STILL DONT REALLY BELIEVE THAT, WELL AFTER 6-9 MTHS, IT DID NOTHING FOR ME EXCEPT MAKE ME GAIN WEIGHT. SO MY GYN TOOK ME OFF OF IT AND SAID I WAS DEPRESSED AND GAVE ME LEXAPRO. I DON'T THINK I'M DEPRESSED JUST AGGRAVATED. WELL, I NEVER TOOK THAT. THEN LAST WEEK I HAD MY ANNUAL PAP AND HE WANTED ME TO START YAZ. I EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT I READ MANY ARTICLES THAT WOMEN WITH PMS AND MIGRAINES NEED A PILL WITH MORE ESTROGEN THAN PROGESTIN, WHICH OF COURSE HE DIDN'T AGREE WITH. I ENDED UP CALLING HIM A FEW DAYS LATER (I'M SURE TO HIS ANNOYANCE) AND ASKED FOR A DIFFERENT PILL AND HE ORDERED LOESTRIN WHICH HAS EXACTLY THE SAME ESTROGEN/PROGESTIN RATIO. GRRRR. ANYWAYS, I'M THINKING ABOUT CALLING THE COMPOUNDING PHARMACY AND ASKING ABOUT BIOIDENTICAL BETA 17 ESTRADIOL. I'M NOT SURE THAT HE WILL SINCE HE SAYS I'M ESTROGEN DOMINANT. BUT I READ THAT EVEN THOUGH YOUR ESTROGEN DOMINANT, IT STILL DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE GETTING THE GOOD 17 BETA, YOU'RE SOMETIMES MORE DOMINANT IN ESTRONE. BUT I HATE TO TELL THESE "PROFESSIONALS" ANYTHING BECAUSE I FEEL THEY ARE OFFENDED. I THINK THEY JUST FEEL I'M A HIGH MAINTENANCE WHACK JOB. BUT I REALLY DO TRY TO BE NICE AND PRESENT MYSELF PROFESSIONALLY. MY QUESTION I GUESS HAS ANYONE AT MY AGE JUST TAKEN 17 BETA ESTRADIOL (VIVELLE, CLIMARA....) WILL I ALSO HAVE TO WORK IN PROGESTERONE BECAUSE OF MY UTERUS? OR SHOULD I JUST BITE THE BULLET AND TAKE THE BIRTH CONTROL THAT I'M FREAKING OUT ABOUT (YES I AM A HYPOCHONDRIAC). MY GYN SAYS ITS JUST EASIER TO TAKE BCP SINCE THERE'S NO MIXING. SORRY TO RAMBLE, BUT IT SEEMS NOONE ELSE LISTENS TO ME BUT YOU LADIES.

There is no way to know if you are 'estrogen dominant' by saliva testing, since it has been shown by many studies not to be consistently reliable for sex hormones. You need a blood test for estradiol, preferably two--once in the follicular phase, about 3-4 days after the onset of your period, and once in the luteal phase at around day 21-23.

'Estrogen dominance' is a phrase made famous by Dr. Lee, the doc who used P on his patients and wrote the first big-selling book about progesterone. The problem is that he never did double-blind, controlled, peer-reviewed studies, and he said 'most women are estrogen-dominant' due to xenoestrogens in the environment, but there has not been any solid evidence to prove this. In fact, other docs have found that many women are E deficient, and that it's the P causing the problems. They also think that the xenoestrogens in the environment, rather than causing E dominance, are attaching to E receptors and causing E deficiency due to the inability of estradiol to attach to the blocked receptors.

In any case, I run the other way when some health professional uses that 'estrogen dominance' phrase and proceeds to treat it without proper testing or using the unreliable saliva test.

I do believe saliva tests are reliable for measuring cortisol levels.

I would insist on a serum estradiol level at the proper times. Most of your symptoms can be attributed to low estrogen or high P. Many of us consider P the 'make you sad, make you fat' hormone. It is the hormone of pregnancy and is designed to get the potential mother to gain weight for the baby. But when we are young and our hormone levels are balanced with enough E, and then we get PG, usually we do not get depressed because there are sufficient of the other hormones to prevent that.

If he refuses to do a blood test, or allow you a trial with 17 beta estradiol, then it's time to move on.

i also was dx as estrogen dom. im 49 and havnt had a period in 6mos. doc also gave me prog. cream been using for a month now dont see a big differance yet... will give it more time

WELL, I TALKED TO THE BIOIDENTICAL COMPOUNDING PHARMACIST, AND HE SAYS I'M ESTROGEN DOMINANT. GRRRRR!!!! MY GYN WANTS ME ON BIRTH CONTROL............WHATS A GIRL TO DO. I'M ABOUT TO LOSE IT!

Shelby
How does he know you are estrogen dominant? Were any tests done?

Do as Sariah suggests and get the serum test done instead by someone else!

yes saliva testing

Hi Shelby, I will be 39 next month and have some similar problems. Went on Orthocyclen 5 years ago to suppress peri issues and was ok till a year ago and then started having to get up every morning at 4 to pee. Went off it and consulted a doctor, had my hormones tested etc. only to have the doctor not really address or acknowledge anything I was saying, in affect treating me like a 38 year old whack job.... doctor is a female too, and runs an "emergency medicine clinic" along with her own Botox/"antiaging BHRT" consultancy practice. My lab report showed 123 for estrogen with less progesterone, making me TECHNICALLY "estrogen dominant". Doctor insisted that I really need progesterone and prescribed a cocktail of hormones to be taken every day with some estrogen and testosterone. It was so hard to communicate with her, she was so mean cold, I gave up and went back on the pill. While the cream did help some my bladder issues continued most likely due to the fact that I need a lot more estrogen, beta-17 and not estriol which is peed right out of the body. I've read elsewhere on the board that 200 is optimal. That is what I read on the Oprah show thread which is also on this board. Also I am very short, 5'1", and weigh what I weighed in junior high I've gained a little bit of body fat but not that much. You may need to think about seeing a different type of doctor. Read Sex Lies and Menopause by T.S. Wiley. I like Elizabeth Vliet too, she is a big proponent of beta-17 estradiol. Dr. Uzzi Reiss says short, small boned females "need" estrogen. You are not a whack job. I know I'm not. I'm not like I used to be though...not even remotely. You could try the pill. It worked for me for several years but now seems to be the source of problems. I got up to urinate 3-5 times last night. I am on Sprintec, a generic version of Ortho. Feel free to write me privately if you need to talk. Cathy

Hi there,
excuse me for my ignorance--but what is beta=17 estrogen?

Beta-17 estradiol is the "aggressive" estrogen that causes cancer, or so the medical establishment says. It is available only by prescription. Estriol, the weak pregnancy hormone, is available online but does not (probably, based on what I've read on this board) give the same relief that estradiol does. Elizabeth Vliet writes about beta-17 estradiol in her books. It is also the hormone recommended in the Wiley Protocol thing.

Hello

I am 37 and on estrogen, went on for migraines (constant non-classic light sensitive migraines) at first I felt better but now feel pretty bad all around. Helped with my energy but did not take progesterne (as my dr does not believe women have a progesterone issue but an estrogen one) anyway, started to get cyst like endo symptoms. Now feel like I need progesterone.

THIS STUFF IS SO CONFUSING!!!
And it's confusing because our hormones are constantly changing.... still have not figured out the best way to take hormones in peri... I understadnt aht at meno you need estrogen because it is going down...

Honestly, I am going back to the natural..... I am also going to look into adrenal support

Good luck!!! Sorry I did not have more success and could give you a better direction