Many of us have found that we don't feel well on progesterone. Even some of us who initially felt better have found that after a few months we feel worse. While this article is not scientific, it parallels my experience and that of many other women. However, I disagree that the problem is always excess progesterone (although it very frequently is)--but another problem is that the woman's estrogen:progesterone ratio is off, with the estrogen being too low. Some of us find that even 'lentil-sized amounts' (GillK's description) make us crazy.

I might also add another symptom that I and others have experienced from P: anxiety and panic attacks.

I do think Wild Yam is a 'wild card' and there is no way to predict how it will be metabolized in the body.

And her '60 mg/day' as a transdermal dose is quite high considering that an equivalent oral dose would be 600 mg! (Transdermal is 10 times more potent since it avoids the first pass of the liver where a large % is degraded) I was a basket case on 50mg/day cream.

Also, this article was on a website selling P and wild yam cream, so I deleted mention of the brands.

THE PROBLEM OF EXCESS PROGESTERONE
by Elora Gabriel

In recent years, due to the research of Dr. John Lee and others, the importance of natural progesterone has been well established. Please see my article *** for more complete information on this essential hormone, and the difference between natural and synthetic progesterones.

Natural progesterone is technically called "Progesterone USP" or sometimes "USP progesterone". Because it is not cancer causing and because it is such a beneficial hormones, progesterone USP has been considered so safe that a "more is better" attitude has been adopted. Whereas the ovaries only produce 20-50 mg./day of progesterone, doctors routinely prescribe 200 mg./day. One of the rationales for using large amounts of progesterone is the belief that progesterone will convert into other hormones in the body, as needed. For example, progesterone is supposed to convert to estrogen and testosterone. And in fact, this is how the progesterone produced by our ovaries does work.

However, with the advent of the more accurate saliva hormone assays, we have learned that there is at least one important distinction between the way that ovarian progesterone and Progesterone USP work in the body. While ovarian progesterone does have the ability to "cascade", or convert into other hormones in the body, there is no evidence that Progesterone USP cascades in the body, beyond a possible slight conversion to testosterone. Upjohn, one of the manufacturers of Progesterone USP, has admitted that this is true, perhaps due to the laboratory processing. Therefore, if a woman takes in more than she needs, she can develop excessive amounts of progesterone. This fact is very often missed even by holistic doctors and health practitioners, and certainly by those selling and promoting natural progesterone.

What are the effects of excess progesterone? Symptoms can begin in a very subtle manner, and can mimic many other types of conditions. The first sign could be depression and/or lethargy. Women who are still menstruating may have anovulatory cycles, perhaps because too much progesterone can actually block estrogen. Memory loss, fluid retention, and protracted menstrual hemorrhaging have been observed in some cases. Joy Bucknell from Dr. Lynn August's office in New Fane, Vermont, has written about the problem of progesterone excess. To quote from her article:

"Initially, most women feel a calming effect when they use progesterone. However, after approximately eight months of high active progesterone levels a clinical depression may develop. Often times the cause of this depression is not attributed to the use of the progesterone cream. The second downside of high active progesterone is its effect on active cortisol levels in the body . . . High levels of active progesterone . . . cause a significant increase in free active cortisol . . . High active cortisol over the long term can result in hunger and sugar or carbohydrate cravings, weight gain around the waist, reduced muscle mass, bone thinning, food sensitivities and allergies, reduced athletic endurance, yeast overgrowth, reduced thyroid function, insomnia, PMS, and if not corrected, eventual exhaustion and chronic fatigue."

Strangely enough, the worst cases of this problem that I have personally encountered were two women who were both using a moderate strength non-prescription Progesterone USP cream. In both cases, they had felt so much better when they started on the progesterone, that when they began to feel worse, they assumed that more progesterone was needed. There has been a great deal of press in recent years about estrogen dominance, to the point where some women believe that this is the cause of all hormonal ills. Thinking that they were still estrogen dominant, therefore, these women kept increasing their dosages until they were using very large amounts of cream. Symptoms resolved when they stopped the progesterone and/or switched to wild yam cream. (Wild yam is a plant-derived, progesterone-like substance which provides many of the benefits of natural progesterone.)

For women using progesterone creams, saliva hormone assays will often show excessively high progesterone levels. Some laboratories are not helpful in helping a woman determine whether she is actually using too much progesterone or not. The well-known Great Smokies Diagnostic Laboratory insisted that women abstain from the use of any hormones before taking their saliva tests, as "there is no reference range for women using hormones, particularly the transdermal creams". Other testing facilities, however, have collected enough data from women using both oral and transdermal hormones, so that they can accurately determine whether a woman has developed an excess of progesterone. We strongly recommend that women who are using progesterone avail themselves of such testing, on a periodic basis, until an ideal usage pattern has been determined.

Below are some further points which should be helpful.

1. When using progesterone creams, do not apply them on areas which are underlain by fatty tissue. It is the build-up of progesterone in the fatty tissue that seems to cause the problem. Instead, use thin-skinned areas underlain by venous circulation, so that the hormones will be absorbed directly into the blood stream. These areas include the sides of the throat, insides of the arms, wrists, palms and backs of hands, and tops of the feet.

2. When possible, select products which are not oil-based creams, but rather water or alcohol-based gels.

3. Use a physiological dose. Pharmacies dispensing USP normally recommend 200 mg./day. However, we have noted that this is far more than the ovaries ever produce. If we are using estrogen, we certainly want to get enough progesterone to prevent endometrial hyperplasia (a precancerous condition of the uterus caused by using estrogen alone.) Dr. John Lee states that he found 30 mg./day of progesterone to be enough to prevent hyperplasia in women using estrogen. Using 1/4 tsp. of a moderate strength product such as ***** twice daily will give you approximately 60 mg/day. Given that nothing absorbs 100%, still this amount should be ample. Dr. Lee used a non-prescription cream (Pro-Gest) in his famous study of osteoporosis reversal in 100 women, rather than the high dosages favored by pharmacies. And Dr. Alan Gaby, author of Preventing and Reversing Osteoporosis, states that the "therapeutic window" for progesterone appears to be much less than 200 mg./day and that larger doses may be less effective against osteoporosis. Possible excesses of Progesterone USP will be much less likely if you use a moderate dosage. The 10% strength prescription creams from most compounding pharmacies are, in my opinion, at least three times stronger than necessary.

4. For those who find that they have developed excess progesterone, generally this problem resolves itself over a few months when the woman in question stops using her progesterone supplement. In the case of women needing progesterone to balance their estrogen replacement therapy, a good solution is to switch to a pure wild yam cream for several months. Wild yam has been denigrated by many advocates of natural progesterone. While it is true that little clinical work has been done with wild yam, particularly in key areas such as bone health, it is undeniable that a good quality wild yam extract provides progesterone benefits. I have observed wild yam to be capable of acting in the same way that progesterone does in opposing (balancing) estrogen. And wild yam does not build up to excess in the body. However, small amounts may convert to estrogen, so wild yam may be contra-indicated for women who must avoid estrogen in any form.

5. There are a few women whose bodies do not tolerate progesterone in any form. This is not a situation of progesterone excess, but a simple intolerance of USP progesterone. These women generally do very well using wild yam creams.


The information in this article is for educational purposes only, and is not intended as medical advice.

Sariah..

Thanks so much for posting this! I was doing really well on Progesterone cream but I'm not doing so good anymore - infact I'm feeling really crappy.. Think I'm going to stop using it for awhile.


Big Hugs!!!

Same here!! I was doing great on it, but not any more...
that plus the hair falling out/Estrogen declining in general articles.
It was expensive and hard to get, and the compounding pharmacist was SO grouchy, too.

Thank you Sariah.

I noticed that my hair was falling out too Mary Beth ... not a lot, but it was noticeable and more than usual.

Yes, Evening P - Same here.

I have a lot of hair, but still......

I shudder when I recall the one progesterone Yahoo group I was on a couple years ago, which was owned by a well-meaning woman who sold the P. She honestly was trying to help people because she felt the P had helped her so much. Many women were told to use more P after they complained of many obvious P-overdose symptoms. One eventually had a heart attack and I suspect the P played a role. Dr. Vliet told about a woman who had frequent chest pains and ended up in the hospital twice with a heart attack each time. Turns out it had happened the same time each month when her E was at it's lowest and P at its highest. P causes vasoconstriction and E vasodilation. E is known to have some cardioprotective properties.

Once the woman was on a good amount of bio E, the chest pains never recurred and she did not have any further heart attacks.

Great article...thanks! I remember this story and I think another in someone else's book that spoke to how lower E levels can cause the heart attacks and did in a few young women. I speak about this often when talking to people about hormone replacement therapy....not to scare anyone but to speak to how hormones can impact the body...or lack there of...

When I used P to reduce my fiboids, I never used a full dose. I always used about 1/4 of it and I never had any side effects (after the initial time when I used a full dose and my depression worsened so I backed off on that dose) and I was already suffering from major depression and obesity when I started using it. That dosage actually helped my depression and helped me to sleep and I never had any hair loss while using it but that was probably because my E levels were already high which is why my fibroids were such an issue at the time.

Initially, when I first started BHRT, since my progesterone levels were already too high, I opted not to use the P because I felt that I needed to get my E levels up to balance out the high levels of P, testosterone, and cortisol. However, the third month my period did not start on time so I figured my progesterone levels had reduced (no psychosis, hair growing back on head, no more cortisol spikes at night) and were not high enough now to start my period so I used a little P over-the-counter cream for about 3-4 days and my period started. I tried the sublinguals but prefer the over-the-counter creams. When using over-the-counter creams, however, I would suggest looking at the ingredients carefully because some contain both estrogens and progesterones (which may work for some people as long as they watch their symptoms and may prevent the overdose of P)...and some contain parabens (which are unhealthy estrogens which you want to avoid...or most people do), etc. Dr. Lee used to have a list somewhere online that were acceptable!

Again, great article because excess progesterone is nothing to play with but sometimes the body does need it to balance out the E/P ratio! Again, I wouldn't wish those horrible symptoms on my worst enemy!


TJ

Thanks for posting, Sariah, I been saying it all along, PROGESTERONE IS NOT OUR FRIEND. It only protects endometrium and fetus, when a woman is pregnant.
The rest no matter what they sales ppl pitching, it is only needed during our child bearing years, this is why Progesterone drops first, AS WE NO LONGER SUPPOSE to have it.
I believe progesterone, natural from wild yam or synthetic, both are kinda synthetitic anyways, is to blame in WHI study, it is P that causes heart ttacks and strokes, is vasoconstrictor, and can be responsible for breast cancer as much as estrogen.
I wish they would find a way for women with uterus intact to take estrogen without paying price of endometrial cancer.
I believe most women stop HRT of any kind due to wicked progesterone side effects, UNLESS your dose of estrogen is high enough or the delivery system is more suitable.
I understand there is small % of women who love progesterone and feel great on it, too bad we are not in the same cathegory.
I also think this women does not know what she is talking about, the progesterone is fat soluble, alcohol or water based creams are not going to be more than moisturizers. P-cream must be micronized USP progesterone, and it should not have wild yams even on the label.

All symptoms listed as low progesterone for me where side effects of taking progesterone when my estrogen was low.
I had very scary chest pain, non-stop panick and anxiety, I could not walk, breath, function, I was a mess and had suicidal thoughts.
Glad you posted this article, we have to be very careful with Progesterone in any form, especially cream that can build up in very short time, and then it can take up to 2 years to clear it out of your system.
Best,
I.


Sorry, did not read the article all the way, so she actually exposes the ill effects of the P-cream, never mind, should have read it thorough.
I totally agree with progesterone/corisol conversion also, made my blood sugar 30 points higher on regular basis, and this insane appetite and carbs cravings, I could not stop eating.
I.

..........Dr. John Lee states that he found 30 mg./day of progesterone to be enough to prevent hyperplasia in women using estrogen. Using 1/4 tsp. of a moderate strength product such as ***** twice daily will give you approximately 60 mg/day..........Given that nothing absorbs 100%, still this amount should be ample.

Once again, Sariah, you've posted a gem of a resource. It makes so much sense, especially absorption properties and the cortisol connection. Explains a lot. And aside from the far more serious health effects of progesterone being a vasoconstrictor, I wonder if that's what throws our sex lives under a bus. I checked out the full article and have ordered the 'moderate strength product such as *****' for a trial run. I will definitely post my results. Just now, I'm awaiting a new 25 mg Rx cream to replace the detested 100mg. But ***** will get a fair trial first.

Thank you so much for sharing this.
GK

WOW you girls are really starting to freak me out, I am having a panic attack reading this. BIO-P cream is all I am on and I am so depressed. I surly dont want to have a heart attack.

Scooter,
I believe I've mentioned this to you before about the P and anxiety, and that E would probably help you immensely. You really should give it a try. Estrogel works great.

I wonder if the P cream is what is causing the occular migraines...if it is a vasoconstrictor then that certainly makes perfect sense.

I am using a 5% P cream at .2ml x 2 times a day...can anyone convert that into mgs??? I have no clue how to do the conversion. I have opted to cycle the P for the time being, because I think being on it all the time was making me feel too horrible. I need to find the right dosage that protects the uterus but that doesn't cause all the stupid side effects.

I had been on a diet, and I was doing really well...until I went back on the P....then got the flu as well. But the monster appetite and cravings for sugar and carbs came back.

AND I was told to use P cream on areas with FAT, the article says NO!! Don't use on areas with fat. It is SO CONFUSING!! I wish I could just use estrogel and nothing else. Sheesh!!

Don't let it give you panic attacks! Some women can't tolerate the usage of P. There are quite a few that post and have had good luck with using P. Not all of us need to supplement E and that should be between yourself and your doctor. By all means if you aren't feeling well speak with your physician first.

I am curious if all of you gals that had bad luck with P have naturally low E? My E was fine and within range as far as the labs went and as far as my Doctors optimal recommendations. So maybe there is a link here for those of us that do well supplementing P??? Just wondering if that has been discussed.

Thanks for in the infomation, I do agree too much progesterone can cause some problems. I still wonder if that what was causing me to be nuttier then a fruit cake lol . I am still menustrating and two years ago Dr. put me on hrt at first i felt good, Then like for 7 months was totally depressed, anxiety and just crazy.Went off of it gradually and now on zoloft and feeling alot better.

I'm sorry that you were upset about all of the heart attack discussions. If you're concerned about using E, try other forms of E such as flax, unprocessed soy, black cohosh, etc. to increase your estrogen levels. I can tell you that my panic attacks were very bad when my P levels were naturally high but the flax is very calming as are the minerals that I take daily. FYI sometimes anxiety can be a result of other things such as vitamin or mineral deficiencies...but too much P can definitely cause it too!


TJ

I'm sorry that you were upset about all of the heart attack discussions. If you're concerned about using E, try other forms of E such as flax, unprocessed soy, black cohosh, etc. to increase your estrogen levels. I can tell you that my panic attacks were very bad when my P levels were naturally high but the flax is very calming as are the minerals that I take daily. FYI sometimes anxiety can be a result of other things such as vitamin or mineral deficiencies...but too much P can definitely cause it too!


TJ

Both my p and e levels are low.

Ok so this was someone that got into herbs and all of a sudden became an expert on hormones. Come on now, I should have did a search on her name yesterday.

Now here is a good article to read it is back by Dr's that are very well known.

***

Thank you so much for this article. I have several friends that have started the Natural Progesterone that were
a little worried about using it.

I did mention that it was not a scientific article, I believe. Regardless of the woman's 'expert' status, the point was her observations of what happens when women take excess P or that it builds up coincides with what many of has have experienced. That was the only reason I posted it.

None of us are experts either, but our observations on what happens to us when we take P are nevertheless valid.

And the other article is on a website that also happens to sell the P. And many of us have gotten worse following Dr. Lee's advice. Dr Elizabeth Vliet (a real expert with years of clinical experience and research) also finds that P causes problems for many women she sees and that it will increase anxiety and other symptoms. You might want to read her books, they are like taking a comprehensive course in hormones with the benefit of her vast experience.

Even though I don't have an issue using P (doesn't mean I won't) I think it is still a very good article Sariah posted. Women on PS have complained about all of these issues that are contained in the article. It needs to be shared to give some comfort to those that have a terrible time with P. Some can take it and some can't. So far for me P is a God send.

I agree DaVinci....it is good information. I did fine on Prometrium for a long time, before I started getting side effects. The article suggests a lot of women do well for 6 - 8 months before they have issues with side effects. I went for 16 months before I realized that it was causing me problems. At first I thought it was the anti depressant I was taking that was making me so fat!! Then I had blood work done with horrible results...much of which has improved since I stopped the Prometrium. So one just never knows. Even if you find something that works for you now....it may not work in 6 months, or a year. Our hormone levels continue to change thru peri/meno/post, so our requirements - if you are supplementing with BHRT/HRT - are going to change over time.

There are way too many "Experts on this site"
Thanks for the article anyway...

There are also natural "herbal" options that help to increase your progesterone levels...but you can do the natural E options with a small amount of P if you prefer. I would suggest starting with a tiny dose, not the recommended dose of P...IMHO... As others have suggested, P was a godsend for me too five years ago and I still use it in small doses but I can tell when my body is getting too much because my yeast overgrowth starts to act up and I have difficulty sleeping...which is why I increase my E during that time! For example, I'm in the luteal phase of my cycle now so instead of taking it once a day, the E, I take it twice a day and use the P over-the-counter cream at night.

I'm an advocate of P, I just suggest using it carefully with your eyes open to what the side effects can be....


Best Wishes,

TJ

[quote name='rosieden63' date='Jun 28 2009, 07:49 PM' post='293017']

This is the expert???


AN INTERVIEW WITH ELORA GABRIEL,
CREATOR OF COSMIC ESSENCES
By Jane Bernstein


From her earliest years, Elora Gabriel has been fascinated by other realms and dimensions. "I was convinced that other worlds lay just on the other side of the veil—perhaps over the next hill or hidden in a secret glade in the forest. I searched and searched for clues to these magical realms, through what seemed like the unyielding solidity and banality of physical reality." In fact, it required decades of work developing what some people call high sense perception before Elora could reliably tap into other dimensions and connect with their innumerable inhabitants. "I discovered that the finer and less dense levels of existence contain not only angels, and the spirits of the departed (as is commonly known), but myriads of other beings, including nature spirits, archangels, ascended masters, creator goddesses and gods, higher dimensional extraterrestrials, and pure light beings," Elora says. "And I found that I could reach and communicate with a vast array of these beings, ultimately even reaching beings from other star systems, galaxies, and universes."


As Elora's abilities gradually expanded, she discovered that she had an unusual ability to connect to very high level celestial beings and to "pull in" powerful energies. She has been said to have the capacity of invocation, an ability that—in its highest form—enables one to bring heaven to earth, in other words, to anchor divine energies into physical substance. "This is what I do," explains Elora. "It is a gift and I use it, to the best of my ability, to help humanity."


What fascinates Elora is the interface between matter and spirit, between physics and metaphysics. How does consciousness affect matter, for example? How can cosmic, celestial energies be imprinted into a physical substance and thus affect humans on emotional, mental, and spiritual levels? Such questions led Elora to the development of Cosmic Essences in 2003.


Cosmic Essences go beyond traditional flower essences. While made with pure water and perfect blossoms, like other flower remedies, Cosmic Essences are created with an added step: the water itself is charged with powerful spiritual energies. Using focused intention, Elora imprints a unique pattern into the water for each essence. This makes Cosmic Essences unusually potent, so that using them often produces immediate and noticeable results. The public response to Cosmic Essences has been enormously positive—and thrilling for Elora, who says, "This work has required all of my training and all of my gifts and abilities. It seems as if I had been preparing for this my entire life."


At present, Elora has created several categories of Cosmic Essences. The "Ascension Essences" contain rarefied, soaring energies for soul upliftment, while the "Soul Support Series" is designed to assist individuals in their path of spiritual evolution, particularly in these extremely accelerated times. The "Releasing Series" works with emotional clearing and removing blocks to growth and realization. This series of essences can reach the deepest levels of our being—including the cellular and DNA levels, the effects of previous

LMAO that is some funny stuff there

I could not believe when I googled and found that.

Hi all,

This thread has made a very interesting read indeed. Like most girls on this thread, I started using P with great results; I was on a 2% transdermal cream (as recommended by Dr Lee, and this is a minimum dosage), and for a few months my life was back to normal. Then things changed and the hot flashes came back, the ectopic heartbeats, the low libido, anxiety, depression, and also now that I think of it, changes to my irritable bowel symptoms - these worsened. Now I am wondering if P is responsible for all this.

I tried natural herbs also, but these didn't help much either. My naturopath was very adamant that P cream even though they say it is bioidentical, it is still dangerous.

Sometimes I wonder if we should just give up and do nothing except try to keep to a decent diet and some exercise; after all, what did women of past ages do? Just that! Often the natural things are the best.

I'm still using the 2% P cream (as I tried higher dosages in the past and they didn't make any difference in how I feel), and I'm not sure it is helping in any case. Just got a period, after three months of not having one, and my IBS symptoms are really bad this time round. My bowel is very tender to the touch (on the left side) and this is due to inflammation and hormone fluctuations, or so I have read. Which means that the P cream isn't really helping here either.

I think I'm going crazy! Life in perimenopause is fraught with all sorts of anxiety because you never know what you're going to get next and I've had enough of all these horrible symptoms and now I am simply frightened of what will come next. Perhaps this is the real reason for my anxiety and depression

I am 25 years old. I was having a hormone imbalance for 2 years with symptoms such as water retention. The dr. recently determined i basically no progesterone (and low estrogen) so she put me on progesterone pills initially then the cream to take during the second half of my cycle (days 12-26). The first month i felt fantastic. The second month was terrible, i started retaining water, my face broke out in a terrible acne (i never ever had acne before this), had panic attacks and severe anxiety for the first time in my life, and i had insomnia. the doctor would not believe it was from the progesterone but switched me to the cream and said maybe that would help. The third month on the cream was the worst by far. My anxiety increased, as did my acne. I have been off of the cream for about a month and i am still having panic attacks daily and my acne will not go away. I am so miserable and upset i ever went on the progesterone because my symptoms before hand were meak in comparison to this! How long did it take for your anxiety to subside? Did you get acne as a result of the progesterone too? please let me know, there are very few reports of this and my dr. does not believe the progesterone could cause this!

Hey Ladies,

Being on Progesterine ( BIO) saved my life as far as many I've met!
Have heart! I hear of that my Gyn said it helped. If it didn't, let him.her know, maybe you need a 2nd opinion, or
maybe it's not the need for P cream. Mine was not alcohol based and the GYN listed th e2 most common side effects
in her decades of practice - Good Mood and Good Sleep. Thankfully, I was ordinary, and got what her other patients got, just that. All good.
My in my case, the bloodwork and symptoms showed it was the correct course of action.
Remember to ask your Dr., if you have problems with your meds. I'e seen more studies showing Estrogen will cause cancer and stroke than anything.
We don;t really know, we are not Doctors, even if we know out own bodies.
So as many of the gals her will attest to, check with your Dr, and what works.

Hugs,
Mary Beth

I have to add that when I stopped periods for a while it stopped working.
But when they were happening, I slept so good and felt happy.
Bottom line is the same - we know our bodies, everyone is different.

If it doesn't wor, for sure do not take it!
It if does, sweet dreams! :-)

And dont min dme, I got my 1st period since last fall this week, so I'm a little out of it today.

Hugs,
MB

i,ll second that comment....

It's crazy isn't it.

Rosie,
Just curious as to what exactly you mean by this comment? Who are the 'way too many experts' here that seem to bother you?

<a href = "http://www.NaturalNews.com/025915_hormones_aging_health.html">Keep Aging Parents Happy, Healthy and Independent with Bioidentical Hormones</a>


Not sure if this will stick. It's an interesting idea.

manyboys,
I tried cutting and pasting that link several times but cannot seem to get it to work.

Hi,

I'll try sending it to you in a pm? Maybe that will work.

c

MaryBeth,
Glad you are one of those for whom the P worked without suffering the side effects. I do think that perhaps early in peri it has less chance of causing problems and some women do seem to do well on it. Those of us who do not do well on it but have to take it anyway only wish that would be the case with us. Even though I know that lab tests are just a snapshot in time, I do think it's unwise to use hormones without the tests so we can get some kind of picture of our hormone levels, and they are especially helpful if we have them done at the times when we really feel at our worst.

Yes, we should definitely be working with our doctors, and hopefully they are knowledgeable enough to understand hormones, but I think as we've seen on PS, there are many posts from women suffering either from their docs refusing to believe that hormones were the cause of their complaints, or assuming that they were 'estrogen dominant' and Rx-ing P and little to no E, which made them worse. So it's important to seek out a doc who does have full understanding of this. I have been fortunate to have one that does.

The studies done showing that E causes cancer have since been dissected by other experts and it was found the conclusions were faulty, as was some of the methodology, and that in fact it was the progestins that was the culprit in many cases, and the E that was used was not bioidentical. This is not to say that even bio E doesn't carry any risk, but that we cannot necessarily extrapolate the studies to apply to bio E.

Anyway, hope you are still continuing to do well and thanks for your input.

Hey Sariah,

You're welcome -

we are ALL here to help, and none of us are Doctors.
Progesterone has helped many, not just me, and not just early.
I have seen studies showing the reverse of what your post showed,
reminding us we are all different.
As I mentioned it was not only me, and I was not helped by in early in the game,
I didn't try it back then. There certainly is documentation by all sorts of medical journals to
show that Progesterone and Estrogen can cause cancer. I'm not a Dr so I would try very hard not
say that medical data was faulty, unless the Dr said you have three arms, and I have two.

But even then I would open to the possibility that my vision was wrong.

I have data from the JAMA and Harvard University, both also claiming that they prove
that HRT - Estrogen in any form - causes cancer. Does it for all? I don't thinks so,
but how can any one person know if data is faulty, what is needed is not acedote, but double blind studies.

I can only know that later in the peri/meno it helped, me and my GYN who was a very gentle soul
said she had seen it help hundreds. If that data is faulty, we have to consider any of it may be.
ANy of course there are people who it has not helped, but Sariah, I think each should speak for themselves here
where they are in tough times in their life looking for answers, A Dr shortage, and there are no Dr here.

I also think that since there are so many new people here, we should not abbreviate.
The words Estrogen and Progesterone are very important.

I don't think that anyone can say that all symptoms are the result of perimenopause or menopause,
nor that Bio-itentical Estrogen is the answer to all medical problems.
This sudden influx of late of postings that are ONLY about this, well, this is one site, and that is only one tiny piece of
being a human being - postings that point to Bio-itendical Hormones - that are a sampling, that are not double blind, and are anecdotal or not
we have to remember there are no Dr's postings here. I do think if we are to discuss medicine, especially with all the new people,
if someone uses and Acronym such as "Bios" it means (usually plant derived, non synthetic)
BioItendical Progesterone, Estrogen or both/either should be spelled out.

I did have the tests with a MD as have many of us.
And as I said in my last post,. So as many of the gals her will attest to, check with your Dr, and what works.

My humble opinion is that somehow postings have been steering towards
Questions about BiolItentical Estrogen?
If so, that should be made clear to the readers who come here for a variety of reasons.
Yes, many of the posting ask - and all the more reason to allow for all points of view.

I also am of the opinion that to be clear, abbreviations such as "Bios" or "HRT" (hormone treatement therapy)
or BHRT ( Bioidentical hormone <such as Progesterone for me, or Estrogen> Therapy), should be spelled out.
Rx-ing meaninng prescribing. Rx means Prescription. TX means treatment. DX - diagnosis.
BIOS means Bio-itendical. There are many types of BIOS.

Everyone have a great day!

Mary Beth

And NO I am not an expert, I believe like SO many have said here over the years,
that we must self educate. I am not a Dr, nor a Nurse and in fact miss the day when
they had MD's do question and answer sessions. Everyone be good to yourself.
Hugs,
MB

Scooter, this site is to help....
If you had symptoms of panic before reading this, then for sure see your Dr right away would by my opinion.

But if the postings here who are not from Drs have upset to where you are having anxiety caused by what they are writing, Im sorry
((((((HUGS)))))))) I can assure you that I myself am using Bioidentical Proseterine cream, now, late in peri and have had only good results.

MB

Sariah.

I was referring to recent posts.
Of course there are archived of all sorts of great subjects.
And I understand your own experience with Drs has not been good, some of mine have not
been either. Some have been great! I do agree that ANY info could be faulty.
The truths and successes lie in results.

I know what you mean, I have had tons of thank you notes, too. :-)
It's great place with grateful women.
My purpose is to be one of a community that are free to talk for themselves.
Education is multi-pronged is all. These same bright women can
see for themselves what is working and what is not. Be it herbs, acupuncture
(which was mentioned recently here).
Smarts had nothing to do with people speaking as thought they were Dr's, but forgetting to
point out they are not Dr. Perhaps we should all adopt the signature. Then no one would be misled.


Hugs
Mary Beth

So I think maybe I should clarify -
Lord knows that for most of us, we don't spent all day, and can't, reading and replying to every post,
as much as it would nice if we could!

I was on Progesterone Cream for *several years towards the end. It was awesome. Then it stopped working, and I stopped getting periods, and I waited a few months, then stopped taking it. Given that these things fluctuate, I didn't really give it a chance to be fair, to find out why I felt less good.
The cream, or the Estrogen or which.
But I do know that when periods were happening either past or very recent, Bioidentical Cream Progesterone helped me a ton with everything!
I'm not referring to before I took it - WAY back when severe peri started ( I was 43 when I started here in 2003).

Hugs,
MB

Ladies, let's not forget we are here to help each other and not to argue who is right and who is wrong. I take every bit of information with a pinch of salt, and then make up my own mind, as per the quote below:

"Don't believe anything anyone says
Not even if I say it!
Unless it fits in with your own reason and sense"

~ Buddha ~

Have a great day all!

This is a BIO IDENTICAL HORMONE chat.
So, we talk about hormones.
We exchange experiences and information.
We make up our own minds how to use that information.
Right?

"Ladies, let's not forget we are here to help each other and not to argue who is right and who is wrong. I take every bit of information with a pinch of salt, and then make up my own mind"


Absolutely, I agree

anybody had acid reflux problems caused by too much progesterone?

my level of P is 16.8, E is 100, T is 15

Hi there,

I am a rookie at trying to figure out this hormone maze but 5% 2 ml twice a day seems like an awful lot to me. My Gyn prescribed 3% cream at 1 ml per day for 10-14 days every other month in order to induce a bleed. I have a problem with progesterone--especially when I stop it suddenly. I am at the end of cycling with right now and started at 1 ml. for 4 days, then went to 4/5 th of a ml. for 3 days, the 3/5th of a ml. for a coule of days--I have to go off it really slowly or I get a flare up of my crohns disease--strange~~can't figure that one out. avalina