Hi everyone,

I am a little suspicious but fascinated by this term "Bio-identical" hormones.......I apologise for my skepticism, I am a scientist by nature. I want to know why you take them, what it entails, the cost and what they are made of.......I have read a bit of blurb up the top but I want to hear from people it has helped or hindered. A statistical analysis, if you will......

Do you mind indulging me, lovelies?

Cheers,

Michah

I can explain what are they made of, the estrodiol part is made from soy, progesterone is from wild yam. The "biodentical" term is due to formula being similar or identical to female endogenous hormones, althought the product is syntesized in the labs.
The big fuss about hormones, is due to the fact that the formula is identical to human sex hormones and it supposedly "fit " better into receptor, as opposite to CEE and syntetic progestine.
There is not much data supporting use of this product neither there is safery record or statistical analysis with doulbe blind placebo studies, most claims come from doctors that Rx them, or so called wellness and longevity centers.
The FDA recently approved quite few products, both estradiol and progesterone, as bioidentical commerical products, for use in USA I think based on popular remand and as a result of WHI study that was conducted on women using premarin/prempro and led to rather unfoavorable results.
Since some women went cold turkey on conventional HRT, bioidentical hormones started to take over, they been used in Europe since 1990, but again, no serious studies were conducted, so FDA requested the same black box label on BHRT products, as it was on syntetic HRT aka horse pee.
I am not a little suspecious, but just think that both HRT and BHRT have the same risk and benefits, until there is a statistical data with sufficient number of samples and double blind placebo studies to provide solid evidence that BHRT are safer and more efficient that old HRT, I personally, consider the risk and benefits are the same,
personally, I have tried BHRT for breif time period, and found the experience to be rather negative, however, some women have great success with it.
If I get to try HRT again, I will opt for conventional HRT with long record of documented side effects and benefits, JMHO.
HTH,
I.

Thank you Iradan........I get what you mean....the thing that jumped out at me was the "soy" estrodial. I have goiter and was warned off soy products that were not fermented the traditional "Eastern" way. In Australia, our soy products are not processed the same way........I have to be careful how much soy I eat.......I even check products wirh soy flour or other soy products....."soy" eostrodial may not be the same thing(denatured proteins in the synthesisng process or whatever) but I am suspicious.

Australia, as far as I know has not approved BHRT or any other, other than orthodox HRT. DHEA is also not FDA approved here. In saying that I am a huge fan of chinese medicine, but alot of that rests on the fact that I trust my Chinese doctor.......but it is not designed for long term therapy......I just go back when I need to.......my underlying fear is that I have an aggressive strain of breast cancer in my family. I started having mammograms when I was 31. My mother used HRT and ended up with abnormal cells in her breast 3 years later at 42.......she came off the HRT but lives with mammograms every 6 months and occasionally biopsies. It is terrifying. My Aunty died of it a few years ago at 59. I have heard though that HRT is now a bit more user friendly and has more progesterone in it to combat eostrogen dominance.

Thanks alot for your input, babe.....I shall stick to my YAZ for now.....

Cheers,

Michah

Hi Micah - The allure of the BHRT enticed me into trying them after my meno symptoms became borderline debillitating. After using the Vivelle Dot patch (.1 mg) (estradiol) for 3 months, my blood estradiol still remained below 20 (which is very low). I then switched to sublingual estradiol/estriol ( 4 mg estradiol/day, which is a rather high dose), after 6 weeks, I was actually feeling worse. I know that there were others that I could have tried like the gel, ring or even oral estradiol, but my patience was wearing very thin. I have now switched to Premarin, which to some is a big faux pax. I have only been on it for a short time, so not sure of results yet, but I'm optimistic. However, I agree with Iradan that both BHRT and HRT carry the same risk. (By the way, it was Prempro, not Premarin, that had the slight increase of breast cancer in the WHI study.) I never wanted to take any hormone replacement at all. I struggled for a year and a half, as my symptoms grew worse, and finally threw in the towel. Now, I wish I hadn't held off so long, but I'll get there one way or another. Anyway, the BHRT didn't do a thing for me. My Nurse Prac. said that some people have tremendous success with them and some (like me), they don't do anything for. The only way to know for sure, is to try them. Are you thinking of trying them?

Hello All,

Since this discussion is in the "name of science" I would love to be a part of it. I feel like a huge science project, trying to find my way through a horrible peri and now into almost 8 months without a period. I am almost to menopause at age 51. My peri started at the age of about 44 or early 45. I lost an ovary, and for some reason after that surgery, I never felt "good" again. I felt awful, many days I would wonder what was wrong with me. I had lost my zeal for life, it seemed to just compound with so many other symptoms. Then I found this site and understood that I was having "hormone" issues!!!!

Being such a researcher, I read up on EVERYTHING! I was dying to find an answer, and make myself better. I decided to try the bio's and see if it would do all the things that the books and certain doctors said it would do. Okay, so I have been on them for 4.5 years. I think personally they did help with many symptoms. They stopped hot flashes, only rarely do I have one. They gave me a better mental clarity, took away the foggy head feeling. Have better energy. Most days I feel pretty good, but I still have those bad days with no zeal, but not as often as before. It is not a magic pill, I still experience hills and valleys.

With all that being said, I am working on a different approach these days. I am (and I will let you know how this goes as it unfolds), trying to lower my dosage of the E and use better quality of eating to aide in my overall health. Due to a health problem with my husband, we are forced to do this, which is helpful to push me to research and find what works best.

As far as my diet goes, we are doing things like "jucing" fresh fruits daily, eating lots of "greens" and an assortment of whole grains in our diet. Changing to lower fat all the way around. Only Chicken/fish/turkey/sashimi type meats.

Take about losing weight, it is incredible how quickly you can shed the pounds by eating less fat and sugar. I feel like it has been working. Now I just want to wean off some of the E and see if I can stay balanced.

Sorry if this is so long, I am just hoping that anything I can share will benifit someone who needs it. Take care!

Juliann

Michah,
There is no soy in the end product, it is identical female estradiol but it is synthesized from soy. This is in regards to thyroid, not much to fear, in this term.
The BC in your family, it is another story, I am sure you have to be very careful. I don't blame you, stick to something that works for you.
Cheers,
I.

I am not thinking that Premarin is faux pax, I have done lots of reading on Premarin and most studies indeed blame the Progestine not Premarin for side effects. I do believe Premarin and EstraTest are pretty good choices, if one can cycle progesterone or progestine. If not, there won't be 9 million taking it well into their 70s and beyond.
But it is personal choice, now I wish I did not waited 8 years either. I am going to see my gyno in July, and see what he has to offer in terms of low dose HRT.
I agree that sublinguals were the worst experience, and so was Prometrium, so I will try different options and settle for the one that helps me the most.
I don't see much difference between BHRT or HRT, as long as it helps. There is risk with both.

Dear Michah
Would love to indulge you honey but I too am ignorant about Bio-Identical.Unfortunately am not a scientific type of person so even when I read about them still come away feeling lost.
HRT has and still does a great job for me.It is fairly cost friendly and I find the quality of my life is so much better on them and off.
I know that there will be lots of ladies to give you the 'statistical analysis' but not me.
Perhaps when you gather the information you could explain to me.I would be interested.

All the Best
Elizabeth


Dear Juliann
I wish you great luck in continuing your new life style approach to nutrition.It is not easy but I also do my best to eat this way.
However,I never deny myself a sweet treat ocassionally.I also find using smaller plates limits me to smaller portions which also helps.

Well Done
Warm Wishes
Elizabeth

Does anyone know the cost of bios? I am on a birth control pill now and the cost increased recently. It is 168 for 3 months. Yikes! It works great, I am still in peri, but when I make the switch I am worried about it being cost prohibitive.

Thanks

Hi sciencelady.........aptly named I see!!! I have not yet dealt with the "wall" of menopause......I am hoping the peri will prepare me, or better still I will have run out of symptoms by then! Trying bio's is another story......the fact that they are not approved here means that they are distributed by "Bio specialists", certain doctors who only deal with this course of action. Seeing as I am skeptical on most things, someone has to really convince me......also by the very nature of the difficulty in getting them, means that they are likely to be very expensive. The only way I would experiment is if there was a guarantee that they would NOT give me cancer........rock and a hard place! From what I have read on here so far, that guarantee seems unlikely. The first doctor I saw about my thyroid wanted to treat me with natural hormones and I was looking at thousands of $$$. Can you prove that these work better than orthodox medicine, I asked.......well, no but they have less side effects.......yep, wheres your data? I am not always combative but I have experienced much bias in the medical profession......I have since found out through Medicare that he had been to court twice due to action taken by other doctors because he was acting with a medical license but only offering non-FDA approved treatment.......I did not go back. I do believe in unorthodox medicine, but not when there are to many unanswered questions with very strong medication, natural or otherwise.

Thanks for your input babe......I hope your symptoms are improving

Hi Juliann, I am glad that they helped.......I am hoping that my HRT will help as well........I have noticed some subtle changes already and this is only my second month! We shall see........as for diet, I have always been fortunate in my ability to eat well........I have been vegan in the past just to cleanse, I am not a huge meat eater, I don't eat dairy other than biodynamic yoghurt and haloumi cheese and find I deal better with veges and nuts. I do like my cakes though! I just don't eat much of it.......I hope coming off the E is an easy transition for you......it would be nice if you could! I wish you the best of luck....

Thanks for your reply......




Thanks Iradan, thought there might be denaturing in the final product.......thank you for confirming that as I wasn't sure. Yep, poor old thyroid! Makes me paranoid.........I shall stick to what I know, just keep an eye on the BC, I am due for a mammogram this year.......now that I know there are risks with both, go with what works!!!!

Thanks for that, babe....

Hi Elizabeth, nice to see you........I think the problem sometimes is that we have TOO much choice. I am well versed in the nature of hormones in the body, but is so complex to treat them. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. Thats kind of how I think of most things. If it is too convoluted, then in everyday life, it is harder to make choices. Everyone is different........and I always get great advice from all you wonderful women!!

I am glad it has worked for you.....there is celebration in that!!!

Thanks for replying, babe.....



I don't know how much they are sweetie, but what are you on now? Here in Australia, I pay $78 for 3 months.....you must be on super HRT! I am also on a pension which helps to a degree........I would imagine that bio's are more expensive?

I hope you get it sorted babe, its hard when we are facing being on these meds for an extended period of time......

Cheers,

Michah

I suppose that the "why" can fall into my lap. The answer is simple; I take bios because I like feeling normal.
Before hormone replacement, my body was going down-hill quickly.


Currently, I am in peri-menopause and have been for at least seven years. You have read on this board how many women are suffering. Five months ago, before BHRT, I was a hormonal mess! I had almost all of the meno symptoms including migraines which compelled me to stay in bed for at least eight days a month. Add another three down-time days due to cramps, and I was out of commission for 1/3 of my life. I could go on and on, but I shall spare you the details. As others on this board, I too, sought out doctors with my dilemma. Each doctor, an island, with his own specialty, diagnosed me according to what they practiced. For the migraines, I was told that I needed an MRI and would be put on daily medication for the rest of my life. It was strongly suggested that without these expensive things, that I might die. (I never went back to this doctor.) It was suggested that AD's would be just the right thing for me even though I was not depressed. This list goes on and on. My problem was that I did not have the "right" doctor. All of my mental/physical problems were strictly hormone related.

From the first day of starting bios, I was a new woman. Once again, I was motivated to do everything that I had gradually set aside. I found myself exercising, picking up my hobbies, and seeking out new adventures. My weight dropped! My skin changed (for the better), and etc. and etc. It was absolutely amazing!

The effects were immediate; however, in all fairness, I must point out that some of my hormonal replacement comes in the form of injectables. I also take oral Estrogen and Progesterone, DHEA, Pregnenolone, vitamin supplements, along with a cream form of Estrogen, Progesterone, and Testosterone (cream for part of the month.) Although some of my doses seem on the high side, they are working quite well for me. Personally, I think that most doctors err by giving too low of a dose; therefore, they are somewhat ineffective, not giving the relief that a therapeutic dose would. As you have read on this board, many women are always experimenting with their dosage. Starting at a higher dose and then going down may be a better option. This is strictly my opinion, so if other ladies are reading this, please don't up your doses without your doctor's approval.

Too many women come to this board and glean information, start taking bios, feel great, and then promptly forget about their Power-Surge sisters. It would be a good thing if each one of us who have profited would remember to give back to others.


As for being in fear of breast cancer, I feel that there are many other factors involved. Diet and generational eating habits probably account for much of it. Also, the lack of iodine in our diets is another factor. Iodine is required for protection against breast cancer and fibrocystic breast . There is a definite link here. Iodine levels in the breast tissue of breast cancer patients are very low compared with those in healthy breasts. In another post on this board I posted some information concerning this. Our bread and bread products have played a part in iodine deficiency. .

In the past, Iodine was used as a dough conditioner in the making of bread. The bakers have replaced it with bromide, which actually competes for absorption with iodine in the thyroid gland. Bromine not only deprives our bodies of iodine, but it inhibits iodine uptake from other sources.
Could this be the reason that so many of us have problems with our thyroids and breast cancer has skyrocketed?

Iodine deficiency is a widespread; it is a growing health concern in America and worldwide. A decrease in iodine intake along with an increased consumption of halogens, and bromide, has created an epidemic of iodine deficiency. Fluoridated drinking water also depletes iodine absorption along with some sodas and medications. In the US Goiter Belt, where iodine in the soil is lower, breast cancer is higher.

Australia's and New Zealand's soil is lacking in the trace element iodine, too. As a result, fruits, vegetables and grains grown there are also lacking in iodine. It is an ever increasing problem. Researchers suspect that iodine intake levels (in Australia) have dropped considerably, perhaps by as much as half, over the past few decades. I read where Australia and New Zealand has ruled that iodine must be added to all bread by September 2009. What a marvelous development! Perhaps America will follow suit, although it is much more profitable to cause disease and treat it, rather than cure it, eh?



For an interesting read you might like to google some research studies:

"It is now suggested that iodine deficiency is one of the main underlying causes of many varied illnesses including thyroid disorders, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, cancer (including cancers of the breast and prostate) and many other health issues including fibrocystic breasts and ovarian cysts. (Brownstein 2006:54, 25) Animal studies show that iodine prevents breast cancer and cures fibrocystic abnormalities in their breasts. (Miller )"
There are many better studies than this one.


An especially interesting area of study that you may google is related iodine deficiency and the field of hormone balancing. Iodine is a crucial ingredient in the delicate balance of the endocrine system. Deficiencies may cause or help create conditions such as diabetes, polycystic ovarian disease (PCOS), fibrocystic breast disease, increased breast cancer risk and goiter.

If I were to have fear, it would not be because I am taking BHRT, it would be fear of not taking it. I am sure that I will be on some type of hormonal replacement for the rest of my life. When our bodies start shutting down and producing less hormones, our immune system deteriorates along with with every other part. If...and just if....we can give our bodies adequate hormonal support along with a healthy life-style, I believe that we can stay younger for a longer period of time.

Hormone deficiency causes an increase in the incidence of coronary artery disease, strokes, osteoporosis and possibly Alzheimer's disease, depression, and etc. This is a well documented subject so I will spare you statistics. They are easy to locate.

I am planning on running a marathon when I turn 90. At 100, I plan on some young man thinking that I am only 90. LOL!




As for the cost....priceless!



LOL! ...about $100.00 per month

My Rant and Rave,

Shebee

By the Way...What is your book about?

OK I have question... I have been without a period for 6 yrs and told back then I was post. I was young at 39. I had few periods and heavy periods the normal peri symptom. But nothing else. No hot flashes night sweats or mood swings ..... Took nothing for it. Doc said just take vit. D and cal. So now 6 yrs later I'm full of anxiety ( which was caused by post traumatic stress ) a little depression insomnia and loss of appetitate. I told this to my doc and she had me start on climara patch for 3 months. Did nothing. So she thinks this is not related to meno. Had everything else checked out. A little low in numbers but not to fear. She also said if you opt to take hrt it is to be at the lowest dose for a small amount of time. My question is do I believe my doctor in her saying this is just health anxiety and not anything to do with my post meno?
char

Im going to ask what I have been asking in another post .. have you lost weight recently ? if so see my other post about symptoms post meno.

I don't know the science behind BHRT either....I tried to read some of the posts here on the boards from those who understand it better before I took them, but I always seem to get lost and my eyes start to glaze over. I have tried it though 2x without the success others have, don't know if it was because I didn't have a DR. who could guide me well or because my hormones are still all over the map instead of a steady low. The "why" behind me taking it was to regain some life back, some feeling, some enjoyment in the things that used to give me joy and really the ability to to them instead of feeling tired and miserable through the whole process, to be able to plan an outing again instead of the now wait and see concept. For me I have come to the conclusion recently after having another intolerable side effect to yet another OTC hormonal cream, that nothing is ever going to replace or be exactly the same as what I have lost and am losing hormonal wise, they may come really close and for some that is enough, but from my experience so far close is not good enough for my body.....it wants the real thing and that is gone or going. I am focusing on my mind and nutrition at this point, since my mind has taken a beating through this I really need to get it back into a healthier state....I have to trust that eventually I will come out of this better mind and body.

Bio's for me cost $67 for estrogel one mo. and that was 20$ off with ins. and the compounded were 50 something and the ins. helped with the progesterone.

HUGS MIkki

it was 150 amonth for me, when I used them, and no insurance coverage. I am sure the commercial product is cheaper and is covered by insurance, those I used, were from compound pharmacy, and each hormone was prepared separetely, add the DHEA and pregnenolon they sold me also, it is a good $200 a month.

What an interesting post Michah,

Can I ignorantly ask,what happens when you stop taking this though?? Have a friend who has been on them for many years she decided to take a break off them but felt so terrible promptly went back on them again.
I realise this is just one person
And isn,t there a certain amount of time you can only take them for?

Have read (probably wrongly)that any form of Bios etc just prolong the eventual symptoms.

Are you post meno ? I was just reading that you should take something like Loestrone until you are post .. not BHRT ?!

I think it depends, some women can't stop any HRT some managed to get off once the hormones stop swinging, I know some who take them for life.
It does not matter which route you go, BHRT or ortodox HRT, both can give you rebound effect when you quite or taper off.
But at this point of my life, I only can think of living in the moment, not because i want to prolonge my youth and keep my looks, but mostly because the quality of life is soo pure, one has to make it thorugh the day without feeline your going to collapse. '
Those who had choosen to go naturally and have severed symptoms, taking ADs and BZD, when they decided to stop it, it will be as bad as with HRT, this much I know, as I am on xanax myself,
I am just another confused women trying to survive menopause, for what I see and after talking to many women, I finally realized, majority of vital and energetic post meno are on HRT.......
The risk is getting higher after 5 years, it certainly doulbes or so after 10 years, but it does not matter what type of HRT you have choosen, i think, both BHRT and HRT have same risk and benefits.
I also wonder why BCP and such never been accounted for, many women take BCP since their late teen years, and no one ever wondered, if it is BCP that causes cummilative efffect by the time we reach our 50s, what if a women never used hormonal contraception, is her risk of cancer and such same as those who been on BCP for 25+ years?
I am just thinking out loud, and yet, I read, that women on BCP sail through meno, once they stop taking it.
Anyone wants to share their experience? Much appreciated.
I.

([quote name='Shebee' date='Jun 16 2009, 09:44 AM' post='290444'].......I am planning on running a marathon when I turn 90. At 100, I plan on some young man thinking that I am only 90. LOL!)

Shebee.....

You let me know where that marathon race will be held!!! I want to come and cheer you on! You go girl

Dee
DLT1200

I just stopped taking my BHRT last week. I don't no anything about them at all. I sure wish I was one of those women that it helped from the first day!I went to my regular Dr. and she actually had said it sounded like I was doing worse than before I was on them?My regular Dr. started me on something different last week & feel a difference?I'm not sure about the placebo effect. But, in another post of mine I said I didn't think my desire for sex could even be tricked with the placebo effect HAHA!Even with starting the Bio's I felt NOTHING???I wasn't even tricked into thinking they were working LOL..I don't no if I was just on to low of a dose or what?

My bodylogicmd dr. told me that it would be 5 months to a year before I might feel any effect from the bio creams?I told this to my regular dr & she gave me this look like 'what the heck'?I don't have a year to wait around!!She said it certainly shouldn't take that long to feel anything from bios?When my aunt gets her scripts changed the dr. tells her it could be a week to feel a difference & the pharmacist tells her it could be a few days?When 2 women are on the same things, what is the difference?Opinions? One or the other person not knowing what they are talking about?I don't get it?All I no is like I said, I don't have a year to wait, and 2 months into it, thye weren't doing anything?

I read a paper at the BLMD office that stated it could be 20 years down the road before anyone really knew if the bios caused cancer or not?I was freaked out to take ANYTHING bio or not, now I just want to feel better again?
Amber

shebee,
I am soo glad it works for you, but I recall your regimen is not a usual routine gel, cream, or patch, I recall you getting injections, not?
My point is, I been to this site since 2005, and I only see women that either use BHRT or don't use anything. I tend to think women on conventional HRT not on this site, seriously, perhaps, they just take it and feel good enough.
Have you tried any other HRT than your current regimen. I wonder if the price is in OZ dollars or US dollars, seems not too bad for as many Rx as you getting.
Best,
I.

Hi Shebee:
As you have the experience with Bios, did you feel immediate effect from them, or did it take a while. Did they help with most of your symtoms? I have alot of muscle aches and pains, did it help with that?
jpie

Shebee, thanks for that!! It was good to hear the other side of the arguement........I agree that it is definately working for you.......If it was bit cheaper here, I may experiment......I just don't have the money to waste on something that MAY NOT work(I am on a disability pension). It will work out the way it is meant to.......

The book is about Borderline Personality Disorder, Schizoeffective, rage, peri, thyroid, suicide, stigma and the nature of humanity, the "group". It is a story of my life I guess and the "overcoming". I am HUGE mental health advocate so I am going to bring up lots of nasties that no-one wants to talk about. I have added peri and meno to my list of "things that the population pretends does not exist". It will probably be banned! On a bit of a witch hunt to galvanise, confront, forgive, accept, remove stigma and be more loving.........yep, writing it is like pulling teeth......but it will be worth it......thanks for asking babe!!

Cheers for the input......



Char, if you are not sure, can you get a second opinion? Doctors spin me out sometimes.......I am always suspicious! My new doctor who dx me is wonderful....restored my faith after years of rubbish!

Hope you get help babe.......you shouldn't have to suffer.....




Didgens, sorry I am in peri at the moment......haven't been promoted yet!! I lost A LOT of weight before starting HRT(YAZ)........I am just satrting to put a bit on and I have only been on it for 2 months!! My appetite has improved and I am not always nauseous......so it is helping.

Sorry if I confused you.....

Thanks for asking.....



I hear you mikki!! I need to get my mind into a healthier state........it will come.......I am still reeling from the last 4 years of fighting to get a dx!!

Thanks for your input and I hope you feel better.......

Iradan, the HRT I am taking is YAZ BCP(Birth Control Pill?) Sorry my peri brain, but should I be taking this? Is this the right HRT I should be on? hate to sound mildly hysterical, but this is right, right?

Cheers, Michah

I'm right there with Shebee and could have written most of her post. One doctor and script to another to another to another and nothing worked. Now one doctor, his team and a $45 dollar bottle of progesterone I feel great! I was just thinking this morning that I have not seen any other doctors since I started my therapy, I bet my family doctor misses my monthly visits. The way I see it I am saving money because I am not putting out a copay every time I didn't feel right. Now I feel right, heck I feel like a brand new gal and wouldn't stop taking my BHRT for anyone or anything. Risks? So what, sitting in front of your pc typing is a supposed risk, walking to the mailbox is a risk, taking certain conventional prescriptions is a risk but for me not taking BHRT is a risk to my health, sanity, family and over all being.

The way my Doc's PA described biodenticals is that when you look at it in a microscope it matches our natural cells perfectly. Where as if you look at HRT it doesn't match at all. So I guess the idea is that something so close to your own bodies make up just might work as good and probably better than something that doesn't match it at all. Makes sense to me. Kind of like the lesser of two evils, I would much prefer to not take anything.

Honestly though I don't care if it is HRT, BHRT, Benzos, AD's, Vitamins, diet, exercise if it makes you feel better then do it! I have done all of the above but HRT, my husband and I thought if I were going to take the risk then take it with something that was more natural than the other, it just happened to work for me.

I don't think BCP is consider HRT, really, otherwise, do whatever works for you. I know I am too old for the BCP anyways.
I think BCP is still much higher than any HRT, but if this works, hey, even better for you.

I am really glas it works for you, what about those that it did not work at all, it is not about money for me, really. I wish it worked great for me as it works for others, but it did not, so I am thinking to try the politically incorrect side of HRT.
I am not certain this will work either, perhaps, I am one of the 15% that does not get relief from anxiety no matter what they take. Progesterone was my worst nightmare, believe it or not, prometirum, subs, cream, all made me soo bad, that I am scared to think of it.
If I did not have my parts intact, I would just go with estrogen and testosterone, having take progesterone makes it all nasty for me.

That is the question of the day.

BCP carries its very own set of risks. It is up to you to decide which is going to be your lesser of evils or go all natural and just deal with it.

I did BCP until I had a cervical cancer scare and can no longer take it due to the higher risks it gives for female cancers not to mention the fear of blood clots.

This is why I added the list of other options. Whatever works for others is great for them. I am not selling BHRT I am simply adding my experience as a good one. Just as I have contributed my experience with AD's as a not so good one. Benzo's worked great for me too but it didn't fix the problem it only hid it each time I had to pop a pill. BCP worked for me too but I had to quit taking it and it does in fact carry its own set of risks just like any hormone replacement does. We can't have only the bad experiences with BHRT posted otherwise it becomes a bit one sided.

You let me know where that marathon race will be held!!! I want to come and cheer you on! You go girl

Dee
DLT1200
[/quote]


Dee, why don't you run with me, instead?

LOL!

US dollars....and I also take a B-12 shot every few weeks or so. ($10.00)

I have never been on BC pills or conventional HRT. It was a very difficult decision to start BHRT; however, in knowing what I know now and how I feel, I wish that I would have started them sooner.

See you later...I am heading out to the garden to pick some veggies for breakfast...and then a quick swim....next running to the store...working on my rehab house....cleaning my own house and preparing chicken (something?)...visiting a neighbor....picking up a friend from work....LOL!...and etc. and etc. Yesterday I put 5 coats of wax on my hardwood floors. They shine like liquid glass! (nobody better walk on them...ever! LOL) ...Today when I have an extra minute, I will work on some other major project.


LOL! Yes, I should have started bios long ago. I am now working very hard to make up for lost time.

Shebee






I asked my doc this same question. I asked how long should I take bios...he replyed, "For life, if you want to feel good."

I don't think that the bios would prolong the eventual symptoms. Your body would just revert back to your hormones going into decline.

As we age, our hormone levels go down.

Shebee

Shebee,
OMG.......could you bottle some of that excess energy and send it to me!!!! Please????????
Dee

I know you are not selling or pedaling anything, I just wonder how you deal with Progesterone part of the HRT, since you mentioned just a bottle of P and repalced all the doctors visits. I too avoid doctors now, once a year routine physical, not much they can offer anyways.
I am sencere here, just thinking out loud, why and how some women have such a relif from P, while others feel worse.
Hard to figure out what a girl to do... I never could tolerate BCP either, perhaps, we indeed all different.
I am seeing my gyno in few weeks, will see, if he will come up with something new and better be good also.
Cheers

I take the P, armour and give myself a b12 injection every 2 weeks. I kind of broke my vitamin habit and should go back on those but haven't noticed I feel worse for not taking them. I don't know why I can handle Progesterone and some can't. Obviously it is a difference in how our body processes or maybe doesn't process it. My first few weeks were a bit anxious but then things slowly started to improve and now I feel at least 10 years younger four months into it. I would simply hate to see someone pass up the opportunity because of the horror stories some gals have with P.

My doctor did have me double up on P to see how I felt and that was not a good thing I went very anxious within an hour of taking it. This month I think we are increasing the oil caps up to 200mg and see if that gets my level at the ideal range.

Dunno but I am happy it is working for now.

Thank you everyone so much for your input........I apologise for not being able to address everyones replies but to be honest I am exhausted and extremely overwhelmed! Not by this thread so much, but the last 3 days have been revolting and I have hidden in my crypt!!!

I can't even think properly at the moment.........thanks for your patience, you wonderful people

You contradict yourself a lot.

Not sure exactly how you mean I contradict myself. I am happy with my regimen as it was written from the start. If you know anything about bios and the doctors that deal with them they want you at an optimal level but for me the trial and errors DO NOT work. I was and am quite happy with my initial dosage. Shall I leave out all of the other things that have taken place along the way?

You might try some to avoid being obnoxious !

davinci817,

Don't want to change the subject on this thread but would like to ask you about the b12 shots. I am very interested in giving this a try.

Do you feel energized by taking b12? I used to take it in vitamin form but it started to upset my stomach. I know too that you need a pretty high level of it for it to be useful.

Any side effects from taking it?

Thanks...

Also, I am on Estrogel (1 mg), compounded progesterone cream (30 mgs) and 1 mg. of testosterone (cream).
I've just come off everything so that I can see what symptoms resurface and so far I'm just dealing with fairly mild hot flashes.

I'm going to give it a bit of time to see how it goes then decide whether I want to go back on. I was on continuous as I had no period when I started them.

Wondering about cycling, but do not want any bleeding. Totally done with that!


Cathy

p.s. I'd give the synthetics a try if bios did not work for me and may do that down the road.

Dear Iradan'
What you wrote really makes a lot of sense.
I am all for quality and having been diagnosed so early as Post Menopausal could not conceive of live without my Hormones for another forty years or more
I too am not seeking the 'Fountain of Youth' but I refuse to sweat my way around life with very little sleep and bad mood swings-to name but a few!
So HRT is working well for me.We do not have the option of Bio-Identicals in this country.
Consider myself of fairly sound mind and body so am sticking to my choice.Of course,I genuinely respect other's choices too.Each lady has to follow what ever she feels works for the peace of her mind and body.
I have never 'sailed'through anything very well and I can tell you that when the Gyno,whipped me off the HRT the waters were too rough and choppy for me to survive!
So am back on them and they will have to pry them out of my cold stiff fingers before I surrender my stash!

All things considered HRT and I make a good team!

Warm Wishes
Elizabeth

I am still trying to figure out that one for myself. When I tried P alone, every symptom that I had increased. My sister, who I gave the P to...accused me of trying to kill her! Some women only need the P. to help them feel good.?????
They must be making the other hormones in adequate levels.

It must depend on where we are in the meno game. I now know that I was both estrogen dominate and depentent...all at the same time...depending on the hour. I needed both E & P. My levels of Progest. seem high...but the Estrogen seems to balance it out. I could never tolerate BCP either, so I never took them. If one is making enough E, it would stand to reason that they would only need P to feel better. ?????


What I do know is this: I feel normal. I am a big fan of feeling "normal". I am also a big fan of finding the "root" cause of medical problems. I was told that if ...just if...you can find the root of your problems and deal with them, the symptoms will go away.

By the way...I shared part of my day with my PS sister...not to brag...not at all..., but I am so glad that I am feeling "normal" again that I want to share with others that it is possible. If I listed everything that I did yesterday, it would make your heads spin. Mine is still spinning! LOL! Yes, it is possible to feel good, once again. I am living proof.


I am reading...and reading...soon, I will have some answers. Don't you think that is great that by just reading that you can have wonderful discourses with educated, exceptional people? Books and the Internet are wonderful things.




By the way....

That brings this thread around to asking this question. How exactly do you decorate a crypt?


LOL! Best wishes, I hope today will be better for you...
Shebee

[quote name=


By the way....

That brings this thread around to asking this question. How exactly do you decorate a crypt?


LOL! Best wishes, I hope today will be better for you...
Shebee
[/quote]

Black Crepe Im thinking

Hi Ladies, PLEASE NEED SOME FEEDBACK !!!!

It's always a toss up to see a new gyno and wonder if it will be a good visit or a bad one. I rarely have any faith in my HMO doc's lately. We had to switch insurance and today was my first "new patient" visit with gyno doc. It was filled with so much hope, I had a full bloodwork, so I was ready to hear all about my numbers and what advice he would have for me.

So....the visit lasted approx 45 seconds! He zoomed into the room, asked "why are you hear?". I explained that I am using hormones and wanted to discuss my routine and complications. He raised his eyebrow and said "what are you on?", so I told him estrogel, which works well, but the progesterone makes me feel groggy and I was wondering what I should do??? He said, just stop taking it!!! .....Well, I said I still have a uterus, isn't that a problem? He said, not really, just have an ultrasound every year, you should be fine....and basically said "that was easy, goodbye".

I was stunned by how quick that went....I asked for a copy of my bloodwork, which they didn't want to give me, but I persisted, so I have the copy. The hormone panel consisted of my estrodiol, which was 93pg/ml. So, at least I have an order for an ultrasound, the least he could do. Would you be mad about this?

Of course I did ask him " Are you familiar with BHRT?"........He said, of course, I am a gyno doctor! That was it.

My biggest gripe, is that most doc's treat women with meno/peri with such un-concern, like we are talking about a hangnail or split ends. Sorry, I had to vent...what is it with doc's today!

Thanks for any advice or feedback, thanks!!!!

Juliann

Juliann,
I have the same problems with doctors, so I stopped going unless it is routine physical or check up, or some issue.
My female gynae is along the same lines, so I stopped mentioning my symtoms to her, and I decided to go back to the male doctor I used to see prior to perimenopause.
I am seeing him on the 10th and will discuss my options, I booked a consult appointment, so hope he will spend more than 45 seconds.
I know women that can't tolerate progesterone in any form, so they go for routine sonograms twice a year to see if the endometirum is not thickening, some just take E and T, and take their chances.
I am not sure what you can do, except trying vaginal progesterone, it can be causing less side effects.
Sorry, may be you can find new doctor that listens, although it is getting harder and harder nowdays, most doctors who talk and listen, are cash only physicians.

Oh Dear!

Your life in his hands? I don't think so.

My advice. Run for the hills.

Any doctor who allows a woman to take oestrogen and not protect her uterus from hyperplasia and the resultant cancer is a fool. Is he going to allow you to develop malignancy and then do an ultrasound to confirm the news.

I think that he treated you and your health concerns with disdain.

XIII

Thanks Iradan, I appreciate your comments, you are always very "ride on" in your understanding. I currently have to pay for my own healthcare. For husband and myself it is over $900 to keep this HMO. I could get a VERY good doc if I paid $900 in cash!!!

When I asked this doctor about problems with progesterone, his answer was "just don't take it", how easy huh? I asked him about thickening of Uterus, he said it was VERY RARE!!! I guess I shouldn't worry so much.....

BTW, did I hear you correctly, that you are from eastern europe? Just wondering because I am from parents from Romania/Hungary.

Thank you again.

Juliann

Hi Juliann,

Strange advice this doctor has given you....:-)
I don't think I'd take it.
Everything I've read recommends P with E. My doctor does not recommend E without P.
Having said that, I'm at a bit of a cross roads right now regarding this very issue.

I stopped taking Prometrium because of the same side effects you were getting and went to a cream. Felt almost 90% better on it, but still made me really slow and tired feeling.
So, I've stopped taking both E and P for now and want to see how I feel without them.
So far, my body feels pretty good but I'm suffering terribly with hot flashes and night sweats and the total black, empty box for a brain has returned.

That damned progesterone is just so tricky, but I would not take E without it in some form.

I suppose my next option to explore would be the vaginal P, but my doc told me while it does a great job protecting the uterus, it's not protective of the breast.

I am in limbo right now.

Cathy

It's so hard when you have read up and researched so much info, after all , here we are on PS, and I try to explain this to a DOCTOR.....and he just blows me off in 45 seconds...........It's no wonder that we can't get further assistance, males just don't get it and young females don't understand!!! Thanks so much for your comments.

Juliann

Thanks Cathy,

The last time I tried to be off both E & P it was okay for about 4 weeks, then it all came back.....I have barely used any P for the last year, so my ultrasound should be interesting. I have only had 2 periods last year and none so far this year, I am almost into menopause now. My last doctor didn't blink an eye either about stopping the P. They "both" have said "it's no big deal". I just wonder why???

The only thing that my last doctor said was that it did matter if I took the pill form of estrogen, then I would have to take P, but not with the estrogel.

I guess we are a science project. No body seems to know what to do. I have been tapering down on my dosage, trying to use the least amount, and still stay without hot flashes and mood swings. I did try vaginal P and it still made me feel groggy and fatigue.

Cathy, I hope we can figure this all out, thanks for your comments.

Juliann