Many of you already know my history with progesterone cream was horrid. I'm getting serum blood work to see my levels of E and P in a couple weeks but I'm still suspecting I'm estrogen dominant as I did when I tried the P cream. I'm 38 and had many peri symptoms mentally and physically and my saliva testing before the P cream showed a high E/P ratio. Along with that the MAIN symptoms that really seemed to point more to an estrogen dominant state versus decline in estrogen were fibroids, adenomyosis, enlarged uterus and lining, excruciating cramping with flooding, clotting and heavy periods. It seemed just on those symptoms alone I had an obvious imbalance with surges of estrogen in relation to my progesterone.

THAT IS...UNTIL I started the P cream. I thought it would be my miracle but I felt horrid side effects from it with increased anxiety, night terrors, blurry vision, increased appetite, moodiness, depression etc. Maybe I took too much of what my body could handle but I'm not sure I can tolerate those side effects again.

I know alot of you ladies have had a similar experience and many were still estro dominant while others came to the conclusion their E was too low and P cream only made symptoms worse. So my question is what do you do if you're E dominant with symptoms I mentioned but you can't tolerate the cream??? I've read that DIM, Calcium D-glucarate, Brevail, fiber, and liver supplements can help eliminate excess estrogen and decrease the dominance improving the fibroid and heavy period situation. Has anyone tried a regimen of any of the following with or without the P cream? There has to be some solution for those like me that seem to have a tip towards E dominance but can't tolerate P cream for whatever reason and looking for some answers!!!

I'm not familair with your history so you may have already answered this, but did you take Bio identical P or synthetic?

Hi Peace...I used bioidentical progesterone cream, namely ProGest. I also had tried Prometrium. I had the bad side effects when on both, other than they did help my periods some I couldn't tolerate the side effects otherwise. I still have heavy painful period with flooding and clotting so it seems obvious that I still have high estrogen in relation to progesterone but need something else that would help with that other than the cream. I don't know if the P cream was converting to too much cortisol or even more estrogen causing some of the symptoms I just know I can't go that route right now again...am too afraid to try it knowing how it made me feel before.

Oh someone has to have some suggestions on this one please! Am I missing something here? Isn't the one thing amongst all the Docs opinions in books that unanimously agreed upon that fibroids, thickened lining and enlarged uterus, flooding, clotting, painful periods definitely caused by estrogen dominance? I know not necessarily that you're high in estrogen but that the ratio is off to progesterone. So you think I'd be a good candidate for the cream but it made me into a depressed mess??? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this but I'm still having these horrid periods which I assume are an E/P off balance ratio but that hellish P cream I can't tolerate. Am I alone on this one?

Hey there,

Thought I'd tell you that when I was between 44 and 49 years old, I had horrid periods like you are describing. Very heavy, many very large clots etc. I knew I was going through changes because I would have a couple of these types of periods, then a very light one. Around 49 my periods got further apart then finally petered out to none.
During the time that my periods were really bad, I probably was E dominant. I know that at this time P declines substantially and E can stay up there (usually going up and down).
I tried P cream (compounded at a pharmacy with rx from doc...we don't have it on the shelf here in Canada). It worked nicely for a while, then turned on me so I stopped using it and just tried my best to cope with it all. I took supplements though and I think this helped a great deal.
Once I turned 50 and had been having terrible night sweats, anxiety, terrible fatigues and many other meno symptoms I started on BHRT.
I guess I'm sharing this with you because in my case I went au natural for as long as I could which was many, many years and for me that was a good choice.
Progesterone supplementation is not for everyone and for many women they're better off with nothing because it's side effects can be worse.
I think if I were you I'd get some blood work done to see where your hormones are at this time and go from there. You can't really know for sure by symptoms (although they are very good indicators as to what's going on), but if you want to know and don't want to guess then it's best to check it all out.

Thanks for the reply ManyBoys! Do you mind sharing what supplements you tried that helped with the heavy periods? Again the main ones I've read to help are DIM, Calium D-glucarate, fiber and Brevail along with a good multi, Bs and omegas. I'm getting testing as soon as my period comes. Do you absolutely have to get tested on Day 1 of your period for best results or is Day 1-3 ok to do?

Hey there,

I really can't help you with testing dates. I haven't had a period in a year (one month from now will be a year) and I never asked about my hormone levels from my physical check ups when I was menstruating. Now if I want to look at my levels (from supplementation) I go whenever.
I know there are better days to check and I'm sure someone who knows here will help you with that.
In terms of vitamins and supplements to take, I use a pharmaceutical grade multi, fish oil, EPO, flax seeds in yoghurt or a smoothie and a product called Estrosense.
You can look at it's ingredients and purpose at estrosense.com.
I has DIM and I3C in it along with a few other ingredients. And, it really worked for me when I was peri.
Hope this helps!!!


Cathy

p.s. I'm running to my doc's office right now to pick up a requisition for blood work. I am feeling a bit E dominant these days so I want to look at my numbers to be on the safe side. I take 1.5 mgs. of estradiol and 100 mgs of Prometrium/daily but I think something is turning into cortisol cause I'm experiencing some of those high level side effects.
I feel like one big lab rat.....:-)

Well, don't know if this will help, but. I had similar problems in my mid-forties and have never gotten along at allwell with progesterone either, in any form. Have tried them all. When I had the heavy clotting bleeding and fibroids, I had a D & C and soon felt much, much, much better. It wasn't just the lessened bleeding, it was an overall improvement in my whole well-being. A progesterone idea for you might be to get a very low dose and start with what may seem a ridiculously small amount, like the tiny dot you would get on the end of a toothpick. See if you can tolerate this and then after a week or so see if you can add a little bit more. A compounding pharmacist suggested this to me. It never worked, but she said it was what some women have to do in order to build a tolerance for it. Whatever you do, keep a simple log of what you use, when you use it, and how you feel. Good luck.
GK

D & C was and still is a golden standard when it comes to heavy bleeding, clotting, and fibroids, the procedure itself is a cure in majority of cases.

When it comes to heavy bleeding and thickening, the synthetic Progestin or MPA works better than natural progesterone, as it is more potent, and won't convert into E or T, or cortisol.

I had twice a month bleeding at one point, using P-cream, quite regular, but very annoying, so after endometrial biopsy it had resolved. Needless to say, I never touched P-cream again.
Never had luck with P in any form.
HTH,
I.

Not to divert this topic, but can you tell me a little bit more about these conversions? Is there a thread on this? Would sure appreciate it as I'm flummoxed about my body's total freak out with progesterone, in just about any form, except for norithendrone, which just makes me feel really lousy.
Many thanks.
GK

shar14. I went through somehting similiar. Have you had a 24hr saliva cortisol test done? I went estrogen dominant for 3 yrs before I found out that my cortisol adrenal levels were off. When they are depleting...estrogen goes high to compensate. Just a thought. Just one more set of hormones I have to worry about!! SY

I agree, getting cortisol checked is important. Mine was very low and I was on hydrocortisone for awhile and it really helped.

But I've never read anything about estrogen going high to compensate. In fact, when our ovarian function declines and less estrogen is produced by them, it's the adrenals that are supposed to take up the slack and produce estrogen at the lower levels of menopause.

Could you tell me where I can find this information?

I can not answer your question specifically in regards to the matter of your "issues" with the p cream however, day 21 is the preferred day for testing your hormones including cortisol levels when it is assumed that you are having 28 day cycles. If your cycles are not consistent with 28 days then your health care provider may recommend a different day to have your hormones tested.

I recently completed the saliva test on what was believed to be day 21 but I ended up having a great cycle (first great one in a long time) but a bit longer in duration so my days of when the actual saliva testing were performed were a bit off. In general my cortisol was lower at the end of the day, although not tired at the end of the day, it apparently is consistent with reduced adrenal function. My p (137.8) was in the low end of the normal range at a time period in which my p is to be at the max concentration. My E2 (4.2) was at the moderate range of the what is considered the normal level of E2. My testosterone (41.5) was in the normal range but on the higher end while my DHEA (248.5) finally increased to the higher end of the normal range. All this sounds great, however, my P/E2 ratio apparently is Low (32.8). The normal P/E2 ratio is supposed to be somewhere between 200 - 600 for females. I of course am still attempting to figure out how that is possible, given that normal p values for females in the luteal phase at the max is supposed to be no greater than 446. The E2 would have to come down and the P would have to raise considerably to get to what is considered a good ratio.

Anyways, I started on a thyroid supplement which made a big difference for me, I just started adding adrenal support (distress guard) and am supposed to start on a very very low dose of p cream starting tomorrow evening (day 5) of cycle with a slight increase on day 14.

I am titrating up slowly on the p cream. I have had problems with taking the synthetic p along with BCPs. I am praying that the p cream works correctly and everything "converts" appropriately so that my "p" is increasing and somehow my "e" decreases slightly which will improve the P/E2 ratio. Working on possible insulin resistance issues along with the thyroid and adrenal support.

My gut reaction to my issues with the previous forms of progestin is that the doses of the synthetics are just probably way too high for me. I feel terrible and end up desperate and wanting to take something and then what you take makes you feel worse! No FUN. As a result of my "body" probably being out of balance for a prolonged period (this has been going on for three years), my health care provider and I have agreed to start this slow and low to allow my body to adjust so that it is moving towards balance instead of sending off any more "alarm bells" which gets everything out of order.

I am not sure of your experience with p cream but as someone else suggested, can you simply lower your dose to see if it can be effective for you while also continuing to support your body with a healthy diet, excercise and supplements.

I will keep you informed as I progress forward but am hopeful that you can see the light and begin the process of listening to what your body might need (or not need).