Hi ladies....
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
She cannot understand that I am not taking any hormones as my estrogen levels AND my testosterone levels are all very high (yeh, whats up with that testosterone...I mean, I thought high levels meant your were like a sex fiend...I have NO libido whatsoever!!!)
She also told me to stop taking the herbal stuff - but I checked with W to W and they said they should only balance the hormones NOT elevate them? - and stop taking any soy products (I only have a a little soy milk in tea, so I'm not overdoing soy by a long way).....until she talks to the lab and interprets the results a bit better .
I also did a cholesterol test and my total is just into the high range (207) and she also ordered another 2 tests with that which were homocysteine (which was normal) and APOLIPROTEIN A1 which was elevated at 205 (range is 101-198)...which she said usually is a sign of heart disease......!!!!!!....but said that it could be that the high estrogen levels are pushing that up (whatever that is!)...
Anyone able to help me out here?
And what is Luteal?.....I've heard some of you mention it on here, but I don't know what it means!
Thanks girls!
Caz
Full Version: My post-menopause test results
QUOTE
Hi ladies....
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
carol, I wonder why saliva testing? not blood test? many things can impact and eschew your saliva testing results: food, drinks, tooth paste, etc.
I would repeat your hormonal profile with regular blood test and compare the results, and you may be surprised to see completely the opposite.
QUOTE
She cannot understand that I am not taking any hormones as my estrogen levels AND my testosterone levels are all very high (yeh, whats up with that testosterone...I mean, I thought high levels meant your were like a sex fiend...I have NO libido whatsoever!!!)
Well, you can have high Estrodiol and high FSH at the same time. FSH is negative feed back loop for Estradiol, if stradiol is high, FSH is low, and vise verse.
You progesterone is high enough and your LH is low, which may be the case if you use P-cream, LH is pituitary hormone that indicates progesterone level, same as FSH indicates estradiol level.
Obviously, your results don't make much sense, unless you indeed take some herbal remedies that act as E and P, OR the saliva testing is useless IMHO.
QUOTE
She also told me to stop taking the herbal stuff - but I checked with W to W and they said they should only balance the hormones NOT elevate them? - and stop taking any soy products (I only have a a little soy milk in tea, so I'm not overdoing soy by a long way).....until she talks to the lab and interprets the results a bit better .
I did not know you use W to W stuff, what do you use, the vitamins and the P-cream? I tried this stuff and it was not good for me, but I am not sure what they give you to "balance your hormones", P-cream? Some "herbal" stuff indeed can work same way as hormones do, and not sure if one is better than the other.
QUOTE
I also did a cholesterol test and my total is just into the high range (207) and she also ordered another 2 tests with that which were homocysteine (which was normal) and APOLIPROTEIN A1 which was elevated at 205 (range is 101-198)...which she said usually is a sign of heart disease......!!!!!!....but said that it could be that the high estrogen levels are pushing that up (whatever that is!)...
Can your doctor get one thing right? Holy cow, it is LOW ESTROGEN that makes LDL spike!!!!!!!!!!!!! Low estrogen is raising LDL as your body senses lack of Estradiol and pushes LDL, which is precursor to all sex hormones!
High Apoprotein A is not cause of heart disease, correlation is not a causation. LpA is better than LpB, and LpA is larger fluffy particles where LpB uis smaller and dense, and more likely to cause plaque formation. I am not sure how your LpA of 205 fits into your total CHO of 207, was it also saliva test?
QUOTE
Cardiology diagnostic tests
Lp(a) cannot yet be regarded as a conventional, well established risk factor for cardiovascular disease, although studies show an ASSOCIATION of Lp(a) and cardiovascular disease, which does not automatically mean a causal relation.[1] While it might well be indicated to measure Lp(a) in high risk patients, the association of Lp(a) and cardiovascular disease is rather complicated.[17] Apart from the total Lp(a) plasma concentration, the apo(a) isoform might be an important risk parameter.[18][19] Furthermore, the ethnic origin of an individual must be considered when evaluating its Lp(a) concentration in respect of the risk for cardiovascular events.[20][21] E.g. the "conventional" risk threshold of 30 mg/dl would classify up to > 50% of the individuals in some African populations as being at risk.[22][23][24] Furthermore, Lp(a) measurement is in urgent need of standardisation.[25]
Thus the threshold values given below should be seen very critically. They are applicable only to individuals of European descent, if at all.
Lipoprotein(a) - Lp(a)[26]
Desirable: < 14 mg/dL (< 35 nmol/l)
Borderline risk: 14 - 30 mg/dL (35 - 75 nmol/l)
High risk: 31 - 50 mg/dL (75 - 125 nmol/l)
Very high risk: > 50 mg/dL (> 125 nmol/l)
Lp(a) cannot yet be regarded as a conventional, well established risk factor for cardiovascular disease, although studies show an ASSOCIATION of Lp(a) and cardiovascular disease, which does not automatically mean a causal relation.[1] While it might well be indicated to measure Lp(a) in high risk patients, the association of Lp(a) and cardiovascular disease is rather complicated.[17] Apart from the total Lp(a) plasma concentration, the apo(a) isoform might be an important risk parameter.[18][19] Furthermore, the ethnic origin of an individual must be considered when evaluating its Lp(a) concentration in respect of the risk for cardiovascular events.[20][21] E.g. the "conventional" risk threshold of 30 mg/dl would classify up to > 50% of the individuals in some African populations as being at risk.[22][23][24] Furthermore, Lp(a) measurement is in urgent need of standardisation.[25]
Thus the threshold values given below should be seen very critically. They are applicable only to individuals of European descent, if at all.
Lipoprotein(a) - Lp(a)[26]
Desirable: < 14 mg/dL (< 35 nmol/l)
Borderline risk: 14 - 30 mg/dL (35 - 75 nmol/l)
High risk: 31 - 50 mg/dL (75 - 125 nmol/l)
Very high risk: > 50 mg/dL (> 125 nmol/l)
Homocystein is possible indicator of your arterial wall conditions, if it is normal, the CHO particles less likely to stick and form plaque, so I would worry less about it, it will be interesting to see your CHO breakdown: LDL, HDL, and TRG, then I can make some sense of the test.
QUOTE
And what is Luteal?.....I've heard some of you mention it on here, but I don't know what it means!
QUOTE
What is the luteal phase?
The luteal phase, also referred to as 'days past ovulation' or 'DPO', is the part of the cycle that starts at ovulation and ends the day before your next period. It usually lasts about 14 days and does not vary by more than a day in each person. The luteal phase is named after the corpus luteum (Latin: "yellow body"), a structure that grows on the surface of the ovary where a mature egg was released at ovulation. The corpus luteum produces progesterone in preparing the body for pregnancy. Your luteal phase must be at least 10 days long to support pregnancy.
The luteal phase, also referred to as 'days past ovulation' or 'DPO', is the part of the cycle that starts at ovulation and ends the day before your next period. It usually lasts about 14 days and does not vary by more than a day in each person. The luteal phase is named after the corpus luteum (Latin: "yellow body"), a structure that grows on the surface of the ovary where a mature egg was released at ovulation. The corpus luteum produces progesterone in preparing the body for pregnancy. Your luteal phase must be at least 10 days long to support pregnancy.
I hope this helps, I can only comment on CHO, if it was blood test and you can post complete profile. I am not keen with saliva testing and think it is highly inaccurate, but based on your doctor's comments and observations, I think you need another doctor.
best,
I.
QUOTE
Hi ladies....
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
carol, I wonder why saliva testing? not blood test? many things can impact and eschew your saliva testing results: food, drinks, tooth paste, etc.
I would repeat your hormonal profile with regular blood test and compare the results, and you may be surprised to see completely the opposite.
QUOTE
She cannot understand that I am not taking any hormones as my estrogen levels AND my testosterone levels are all very high (yeh, whats up with that testosterone...I mean, I thought high levels meant your were like a sex fiend...I have NO libido whatsoever!!!)
Well, you can have high Estrodiol and high FSH at the same time. FSH is negative feed back loop for Estradiol, if stradiol is high, FSH is low, and vise verse.
You progesterone is high enough and your LH is low, which may be the case if you use P-cream, LH is pituitary hormone that indicates progesterone level, same as FSH indicates estradiol level.
Obviously, your results don't make much sense, unless you indeed take some herbal remedies that act as E and P, OR the saliva testing is useless IMHO.
QUOTE
She also told me to stop taking the herbal stuff - but I checked with W to W and they said they should only balance the hormones NOT elevate them? - and stop taking any soy products (I only have a a little soy milk in tea, so I'm not overdoing soy by a long way).....until she talks to the lab and interprets the results a bit better .
I did not know you use W to W stuff, what do you use, the vitamins and the P-cream? I tried this stuff and it was not good for me, but I am not sure what they give you to "balance your hormones", P-cream? Some "herbal" stuff indeed can work same way as hormones do, and not sure if one is better than the other.
QUOTE
I also did a cholesterol test and my total is just into the high range (207) and she also ordered another 2 tests with that which were homocysteine (which was normal) and APOLIPROTEIN A1 which was elevated at 205 (range is 101-198)...which she said usually is a sign of heart disease......!!!!!!....but said that it could be that the high estrogen levels are pushing that up (whatever that is!)...
Can your doctor get one thing right? Holy cow, it is LOW ESTROGEN that makes LDL spike!!!!!!!!!!!!! Low estrogen is raising LDL as your body senses lack of Estradiol and pushes LDL, which is precursor to all sex hormones!
High Apoprotein A is not cause of heart disease, correlation is not a causation. LpA is better than LpB, and LpA is larger fluffy particles where LpB uis smaller and dense, and more likely to cause plaque formation. I am not sure how your LpA of 205 fits into your total CHO of 207, was it also saliva test?
QUOTE
Cardiology diagnostic tests
Lp(a) cannot yet be regarded as a conventional, well established risk factor for cardiovascular disease, although studies show an ASSOCIATION of Lp(a) and cardiovascular disease, which does not automatically mean a causal relation.[1] While it might well be indicated to measure Lp(a) in high risk patients, the association of Lp(a) and cardiovascular disease is rather complicated.[17] Apart from the total Lp(a) plasma concentration, the apo(a) isoform might be an important risk parameter.[18][19] Furthermore, the ethnic origin of an individual must be considered when evaluating its Lp(a) concentration in respect of the risk for cardiovascular events.[20][21] E.g. the "conventional" risk threshold of 30 mg/dl would classify up to > 50% of the individuals in some African populations as being at risk.[22][23][24] Furthermore, Lp(a) measurement is in urgent need of standardisation.[25]
Thus the threshold values given below should be seen very critically. They are applicable only to individuals of European descent, if at all.
Lipoprotein(a) - Lp(a)[26]
Desirable: < 14 mg/dL (< 35 nmol/l)
Borderline risk: 14 - 30 mg/dL (35 - 75 nmol/l)
High risk: 31 - 50 mg/dL (75 - 125 nmol/l)
Very high risk: > 50 mg/dL (> 125 nmol/l)
Lp(a) cannot yet be regarded as a conventional, well established risk factor for cardiovascular disease, although studies show an ASSOCIATION of Lp(a) and cardiovascular disease, which does not automatically mean a causal relation.[1] While it might well be indicated to measure Lp(a) in high risk patients, the association of Lp(a) and cardiovascular disease is rather complicated.[17] Apart from the total Lp(a) plasma concentration, the apo(a) isoform might be an important risk parameter.[18][19] Furthermore, the ethnic origin of an individual must be considered when evaluating its Lp(a) concentration in respect of the risk for cardiovascular events.[20][21] E.g. the "conventional" risk threshold of 30 mg/dl would classify up to > 50% of the individuals in some African populations as being at risk.[22][23][24] Furthermore, Lp(a) measurement is in urgent need of standardisation.[25]
Thus the threshold values given below should be seen very critically. They are applicable only to individuals of European descent, if at all.
Lipoprotein(a) - Lp(a)[26]
Desirable: < 14 mg/dL (< 35 nmol/l)
Borderline risk: 14 - 30 mg/dL (35 - 75 nmol/l)
High risk: 31 - 50 mg/dL (75 - 125 nmol/l)
Very high risk: > 50 mg/dL (> 125 nmol/l)
Homocystein is possible indicator of your arterial wall conditions, if it is normal, the CHO particles less likely to stick and form plaque, so I would worry less about it, it will be interesting to see your CHO breakdown: LDL, HDL, and TRG, then I can make some sense of the test.
QUOTE
And what is Luteal?.....I've heard some of you mention it on here, but I don't know what it means!
QUOTE
What is the luteal phase?
The luteal phase, also referred to as 'days past ovulation' or 'DPO', is the part of the cycle that starts at ovulation and ends the day before your next period. It usually lasts about 14 days and does not vary by more than a day in each person. The luteal phase is named after the corpus luteum (Latin: "yellow body"), a structure that grows on the surface of the ovary where a mature egg was released at ovulation. The corpus luteum produces progesterone in preparing the body for pregnancy. Your luteal phase must be at least 10 days long to support pregnancy.
The luteal phase, also referred to as 'days past ovulation' or 'DPO', is the part of the cycle that starts at ovulation and ends the day before your next period. It usually lasts about 14 days and does not vary by more than a day in each person. The luteal phase is named after the corpus luteum (Latin: "yellow body"), a structure that grows on the surface of the ovary where a mature egg was released at ovulation. The corpus luteum produces progesterone in preparing the body for pregnancy. Your luteal phase must be at least 10 days long to support pregnancy.
I hope this helps, I can only comment on CHO, if it was blood test and you can post complete profile. I am not keen with saliva testing and think it is highly inaccurate, but based on your doctor's comments and observations, I think you need another doctor.
best,
I.
I agree with everything Iradan says. Saliva testing of sex hormones is not accurate, blood levels are the gold standard so far. And total cholesterol of 205 is not indicative of anything at all. It is your HDL and LDL numbers that are more important, as is the HDL:LDL ration. And even then, it's the density of the LDL that determines if it's good or bad.
And many doctors have written books about how cholesterol numbers are not relevant to anything. Many people die of heart attacks that have had 'perfect' cholesterol readings. And many people have gone their whole lives with high cholersterol with no heart disease.
And many doctors have written books about how cholesterol numbers are not relevant to anything. Many people die of heart attacks that have had 'perfect' cholesterol readings. And many people have gone their whole lives with high cholersterol with no heart disease.
QUOTE (caz-art @ Mar 20 2009, 01:00 PM) 
Hi ladies....
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
She cannot understand that I am not taking any hormones as my estrogen levels AND my testosterone levels are all very high (yeh, whats up with that testosterone...I mean, I thought high levels meant your were like a sex fiend...I have NO libido whatsoever!!!)
She also told me to stop taking the herbal stuff - but I checked with W to W and they said they should only balance the hormones NOT elevate them? - and stop taking any soy products (I only have a a little soy milk in tea, so I'm not overdoing soy by a long way).....until she talks to the lab and interprets the results a bit better .
I also did a cholesterol test and my total is just into the high range (207) and she also ordered another 2 tests with that which were homocysteine (which was normal) and APOLIPROTEIN A1 which was elevated at 205 (range is 101-198)...which she said usually is a sign of heart disease......!!!!!!....but said that it could be that the high estrogen levels are pushing that up (whatever that is!)...
Anyone able to help me out here?
And what is Luteal?.....I've heard some of you mention it on here, but I don't know what it means!
Thanks girls!
Caz
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
She cannot understand that I am not taking any hormones as my estrogen levels AND my testosterone levels are all very high (yeh, whats up with that testosterone...I mean, I thought high levels meant your were like a sex fiend...I have NO libido whatsoever!!!)
She also told me to stop taking the herbal stuff - but I checked with W to W and they said they should only balance the hormones NOT elevate them? - and stop taking any soy products (I only have a a little soy milk in tea, so I'm not overdoing soy by a long way).....until she talks to the lab and interprets the results a bit better .
I also did a cholesterol test and my total is just into the high range (207) and she also ordered another 2 tests with that which were homocysteine (which was normal) and APOLIPROTEIN A1 which was elevated at 205 (range is 101-198)...which she said usually is a sign of heart disease......!!!!!!....but said that it could be that the high estrogen levels are pushing that up (whatever that is!)...
Anyone able to help me out here?
And what is Luteal?.....I've heard some of you mention it on here, but I don't know what it means!
Thanks girls!
Caz
Dear Caz,
I checked out that herbal equalibrium and it has phyotoestrogens (HORMONE THERAPY) in it...which could be the reason why all of your hormones are high including progesterone. Higher levels of progesterone will result in higher levels of testosterone, estrogen, cortisol, etc... I, too, had saliva testing done and based on my symptoms, the saliva testing was correct! I understand that there are some of us here who don't believe in it, but even though I didn't in it, it again was accurate!
I would stop taking the phyotoestrogens and get retested in about 30 days!
Best Wishes,
TJ
Thankyou, thankyou Iradan, Sariah and TJ.....
Sorry Iradan, but I do believe that saliva testing is accurate, in fact Dr. Christian Northrup - in her book - talks about saliva testing being the way to go....
but don't take this as an offence, I do really appreciate your comments on the results!
I am taking 'herbal equilibrium' from womentowomen.com, which is natural herbs to help with the balancing of testosterone, estrogen and progesterone....they have certainly helped my hot flashes...in fact I really don't get them anymore, but I do take what you said TJ as a valid comment, I will stop taking them from now on to see what happens.
Iradan - the cholesterol was a blood test (I don't think you can do a saliva test for that!)...my levels were:
total: 207
Trig: 77
HDl: 93
LDL: 99 (she said this was on the high side(!?)
Ratio: 2.2
homocysteine: 6.1 (normal less than 10.4)
Apolipoprotein A1: 205 (normal range 101-198)
Iradan, the lady Dr. I go to is at an alternative health practice and I have been going to her for quite a while now, and she has been very good so far, but on this occasion she did not get the results in enough time before my appt. to really interpret them, hopefully next week she will be able to see what is wrong a little clearer and diagnose me better.
Oh and BTW, I have had no periods since August '07...so that Luteal phase thing is still confusing (or am I just dumb!?)
I am a little worried about those darn hot spells coming back when I stop the herbal equib though!
Thanks!
caz
Sorry Iradan, but I do believe that saliva testing is accurate, in fact Dr. Christian Northrup - in her book - talks about saliva testing being the way to go....
but don't take this as an offence, I do really appreciate your comments on the results!
I am taking 'herbal equilibrium' from womentowomen.com, which is natural herbs to help with the balancing of testosterone, estrogen and progesterone....they have certainly helped my hot flashes...in fact I really don't get them anymore, but I do take what you said TJ as a valid comment, I will stop taking them from now on to see what happens.
Iradan - the cholesterol was a blood test (I don't think you can do a saliva test for that!)...my levels were:
total: 207
Trig: 77
HDl: 93
LDL: 99 (she said this was on the high side(!?)
Ratio: 2.2
homocysteine: 6.1 (normal less than 10.4)
Apolipoprotein A1: 205 (normal range 101-198)
Iradan, the lady Dr. I go to is at an alternative health practice and I have been going to her for quite a while now, and she has been very good so far, but on this occasion she did not get the results in enough time before my appt. to really interpret them, hopefully next week she will be able to see what is wrong a little clearer and diagnose me better.
Oh and BTW, I have had no periods since August '07...so that Luteal phase thing is still confusing (or am I just dumb!?)
I am a little worried about those darn hot spells coming back when I stop the herbal equib though!
Thanks!
caz
forgot to mention that my Dr. is going to look into connections with the liver too.
QUOTE (caz-art @ Mar 20 2009, 03:43 PM)
Thankyou, thankyou Iradan, Sariah and TJ.....
Sorry Iradan, but I do believe that saliva testing is accurate, in fact Dr. Christian Northrup - in her book - talks about saliva testing being the way to go....
but don't take this as an offence, I do really appreciate your comments on the results!
I am taking 'herbal equilibrium' from womentowomen.com, which is natural herbs to help with the balancing of testosterone, estrogen and progesterone....they have certainly helped my hot flashes...in fact I really don't get them anymore, but I do take what you said TJ as a valid comment, I will stop taking them from now on to see what happens.
Sorry Iradan, but I do believe that saliva testing is accurate, in fact Dr. Christian Northrup - in her book - talks about saliva testing being the way to go....
but don't take this as an offence, I do really appreciate your comments on the results!
I am taking 'herbal equilibrium' from womentowomen.com, which is natural herbs to help with the balancing of testosterone, estrogen and progesterone....they have certainly helped my hot flashes...in fact I really don't get them anymore, but I do take what you said TJ as a valid comment, I will stop taking them from now on to see what happens.
Caz,
No offense taken, however, Dr.Northrup is not a high authority IMHO when it comes to hormones, and AFAIK, if the herbal equilibrium contains phytoestrogens, that indeed curbed your hot flashes, it is weak estrogen after all, even it is natural and herbal, however, it must contain other herbs like chaste berry that act as progesterone, perhaps also DHEA ... so it raises your testosterone, and again, may raise also estrogen, as we all know, our hormones are interconnected and one can end up with high level of estrogen without taking any... if you interested, you can read my posts on hormonal pathways, which explains why it is soo hard to "balance" hormones to begin with.
QUOTE
Iradan - the cholesterol was a blood test (I don't think you can do a saliva test for that!)...my levels were:
total: 207
Trig: 77
HDl: 93
LDL: 99 (she said this was on the high side(!?)
Ratio: 2.2
homocysteine: 6.1 (normal less than 10.4)
Apolipoprotein A1: 205 (normal range 101-198)
total: 207
Trig: 77
HDl: 93
LDL: 99 (she said this was on the high side(!?)
Ratio: 2.2
homocysteine: 6.1 (normal less than 10.4)
Apolipoprotein A1: 205 (normal range 101-198)
Regarding CHO, forget about heart disease and be happy with your number!
HDL ( the good guy) - great, TRG ( not soo good guy) - low, LDL - normal, consider that your LpA is high, your LpB is low ( as it is linked to TRG, the lower TRG, the lower the LpB), and LpA is large fluffy particles, which is less likely to cause plaque formation.
You ratio is perfect, below 3 is very low risk of heart disease.
QUOTE
Iradan, the lady Dr. I go to is at an alternative health practice and I have been going to her for quite a while now, and she has been very good so far, but on this occasion she did not get the results in enough time before my appt. to really interpret them, hopefully next week she will be able to see what is wrong a little clearer and diagnose me better.
Caz,
It is your call, not mine, i am not sure how she can interpret results of your hormonal tests, if you taker herbs that act as hormones, then there is no point to test, just go with your symptoms....
If you feel fine, and no symptoms, why bother, if you have symptoms, then testing does not do much, as your no longer have your periods, that means your E and P are both low.
You high FSH means your body makes very little estradiol, which is only hormone that registered by pituitary gland and FSH is what reacts to Estradiol only.
QUOTE
Oh and BTW, I have had no periods since August '07...so that Luteal phase thing is still confusing (or am I just dumb!?)
I am a little worried about those darn hot spells coming back when I stop the herbal equib though!
Thanks!
caz
I am a little worried about those darn hot spells coming back when I stop the herbal equib though!
Thanks!
caz
Luteal phase makes sense only for MENSTRUATING WOMEN, not for post menopausal.
You no longer ovulate, and your estradiol is low, and your body is not longer makes progesterone as there is no corpus luteus, which is made from follicle when the egg is released, and this is what progesterone is made from.
So there is no point of talking about any phase now, as there is no menstrual cycle, there are no more phases!
The hormonal range given by the lab is for reference only, so you can have an idea, and since you no longer cycle, how you know which phase of the "cycle" your hormonal test was done?
Even if you did a month worth spitting into tubes, there is no follicular and no luteal phases still, this is why I question your alternative doctor test interpretation, same way you can google the saliva testing range and make sense of it yourself. You can read about the menstrual cycle and phases at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_cyc...ollicular_phase.
Ok, I have looked up supplement facts of herbal equilibrium, here what is included:
1) red clover = phytoestrogen
2)chastetree = progesterone like substance
3) wild yum - phytoprogesterone
4) black cohosh = phytoestrogen
5) ashwaganhda and passion flower= natural tranquillizers
One thing is correct, you indeed taking hormones, refined but from "herbal" sources and in concentrated form!
No wonder you have no hot flashes and your hormonal profile is atypical. The chastetree berry acts on pituitary level and suppresses LH, the phytoestrogens helps with hot flashes, and wild yum acts as progesterone.
You can continue taking Herbal Equilibrium if this makes you feel good, and alleviate all your symptoms but make no mistake, you indeed taking hormones even it is "natural and herbal" it is still synthesized in a lab.
I am very well aware of all these herbs, and IMHO, they are just weaker cousins of pharmaceutical BHRT, which are also made from plant sources.
Since you asked me to comment on your results, I expressed my opinion, and I am not offended and hope you also are not, as I am not a doctor and not playing one on TV either.
I have strong feeling about WW, not only because they are mistreating women, but also because they deceiving them!!! They sell you herbal hormonal supplements and deny it contains hormones, shame on them, at least, when you go to regular Gyno and they give you HRT, they also tell you about the risks and odds.
herbs help when used as intended: in tinctures and in herbal infusions, not in refined and concentrated forms.
I am glad you brought it up, you should be aware of possible side effects of phytoestrogens when taken in concentrated form, at least, know your options.
Soy products is another story, it is highly individual, of course, both phytoestrogens and soy are much weaker than BHRT or HRT, but you have right to know what you taking.
You hot flashes will return once you stop herbal equilibrium, which has enough estrogen to stop your flashes in the first place, I hope this makes sense, and please, forgive me for being a bit edgy.
I just really get upset when I hear women being told that they getting "totally safe and effective and natural herbal supplements" to "balance hormones" when in fact they give you estrogen, and it is very well known that black cohosh and red clover will stop hot flashes, and it is widely avaialbe OTC in any pharmacy.
Keep your doctor, if you like herh, but be aware of WW supplements and try to compare results of your saliva tests with your blood test just out of curiosity.
Oh, and forget about your cholesterol and heart disease all together.
Best wishes,
I.
QUOTE (caz-art @ Mar 20 2009, 04:04 PM)
forgot to mention that my Dr. is going to look into connections with the liver too.
What connection, do you have a liver problem? Then just run a regular liver panel test, high FSH can overburden liver a little bit, given you take phytoestrogens, it is anther load...
Good luck, Caz, and I hope you get it under control.
caz-art,
Not to belabor the saliva testing point, but even though it can be accurate sometimes, there are studies in PubMed showing it is not consistently accurate. For me that was true. I had ordered a cortisol saliva test and they automatically do the sex hormones, and at the same time I had a blood hormone test done. The blood results were consistent with my symptoms and the saliva results were totally opposite and inaccurate.
So there's no way to know if it will be accurate for you unless you also do a blood level the same day and then compare with symptoms. You may be one for whom the saliva is accurate, but you may not be. Blood testing for sex hormones has proven to be far more accurate more consistently. My feeling was that using hormones is not to be taken lightly, and I wanted to be sure about my levels before adding any.
I am on several hormone groups and the majority of women have found the blood testing to be far more accurate and reliable and did not have good results with the saliva testing.
Not to belabor the saliva testing point, but even though it can be accurate sometimes, there are studies in PubMed showing it is not consistently accurate. For me that was true. I had ordered a cortisol saliva test and they automatically do the sex hormones, and at the same time I had a blood hormone test done. The blood results were consistent with my symptoms and the saliva results were totally opposite and inaccurate.
So there's no way to know if it will be accurate for you unless you also do a blood level the same day and then compare with symptoms. You may be one for whom the saliva is accurate, but you may not be. Blood testing for sex hormones has proven to be far more accurate more consistently. My feeling was that using hormones is not to be taken lightly, and I wanted to be sure about my levels before adding any.
I am on several hormone groups and the majority of women have found the blood testing to be far more accurate and reliable and did not have good results with the saliva testing.
Comment on the Vitex (chaste tree berry) should not be taken by someone who is menopausal, as it exacerbates any estrogen deficiency.
I am all for using herbs to control meno symptoms, and I used various combos of them for a few years in early peri and they seemed to work for several months, then things would change and I'd have to start from scratch trying to find another combo that would work. Eventually nothing worked and the symptoms were awful, so I went on bios.
At one point I did take the Vitex (being ignorant at the time) and was wondering why it made me feel so much worse. I researched and discovered it was due to my E being so low.
And I have heard many complaints about WW on other hormone groups. I've checked out there website before when I was looking for answers and felt that while there was a lot of good info on their site, I felt their solutions and conclusions were flawed. So be careful.
Also, be aware that phytoestrogens in herbs can make you feel worse, if you are low in estradiol. It is not really known for sure how the phytos work, but one theory is that they attach to estradiol receptors, yet they do not function as estradiol and in fact block any estradiol from attaching to receptors, which can make symptoms worse, since estradiol seems to be the estrogen that gives the best relief of symptoms.
I'm sorry, I know there's so much conflicting information out there, and it can be so frustrating and confusing. But you have a lot to think about and consider. Just take your time and also read Dr. Vliet to get a really comprehensive perspective. I've read them all, including Northrup, and hands down Vliet seems to be the most knowledgeable with the most experience and solid studies and clinical experience to back up what she says. I think I must have every hormone book out there in my home library, and Vliet's books are the ones that have been most helpful and accurate.
I am all for using herbs to control meno symptoms, and I used various combos of them for a few years in early peri and they seemed to work for several months, then things would change and I'd have to start from scratch trying to find another combo that would work. Eventually nothing worked and the symptoms were awful, so I went on bios.
At one point I did take the Vitex (being ignorant at the time) and was wondering why it made me feel so much worse. I researched and discovered it was due to my E being so low.
And I have heard many complaints about WW on other hormone groups. I've checked out there website before when I was looking for answers and felt that while there was a lot of good info on their site, I felt their solutions and conclusions were flawed. So be careful.
Also, be aware that phytoestrogens in herbs can make you feel worse, if you are low in estradiol. It is not really known for sure how the phytos work, but one theory is that they attach to estradiol receptors, yet they do not function as estradiol and in fact block any estradiol from attaching to receptors, which can make symptoms worse, since estradiol seems to be the estrogen that gives the best relief of symptoms.
I'm sorry, I know there's so much conflicting information out there, and it can be so frustrating and confusing. But you have a lot to think about and consider. Just take your time and also read Dr. Vliet to get a really comprehensive perspective. I've read them all, including Northrup, and hands down Vliet seems to be the most knowledgeable with the most experience and solid studies and clinical experience to back up what she says. I think I must have every hormone book out there in my home library, and Vliet's books are the ones that have been most helpful and accurate.
With all due respect to all, I'm certainly not playing doctor (I'M TRYING TO FEEL BETTER JUST LIKE THE REST OF YOU) at all and I really don't understand the venom! I realize that there are individuals here who feel that because I'm not a "seasoned" veteran on these boards that my oninion isn't valuable, but I disagree! I, too, looked up the supplement that she was taking and saw that it contained phytoestrogens and progesterones...i.e. wild yam...which is why I recommended discontinuing it! The reason that I pointed out that her progesterone was high is because higher progesterone levels will result in higher other hormones (which are showing up in the saliva tests AS INDICATED)...i.e. testosterone, estrogen, cortisol, etc., which can essentially make things worse! Initially, the supplement probably worked because her estrogen was low, but the problem with "natural" phytoestrogens and phytoprogesterones is that you are not able to control the dosage. Essentially, there is no difference, however, because whether BHRT or "natural" they both impact your hormone level and your quality of life! If it is just an estrogen issue then perhaps soy products would be best to eliminate the hot flashes!
I also wanted to point out that a natural doctor is better equipped at helping her, as opposed to someone else who probably has no clue so I would work with the natural doctor who is already trying to figure out the problem.
Again, regarding the saliva testing, there have been plenty of women who stated that they use saliva testing and their are other reputable hormone replacement doctors who use it as well! I can only go by my experience, and my experience with saliva testing (even though I didn't believe in it either) was a positive one!
Best Wishes to all,
TJ
I also wanted to point out that a natural doctor is better equipped at helping her, as opposed to someone else who probably has no clue so I would work with the natural doctor who is already trying to figure out the problem.
Again, regarding the saliva testing, there have been plenty of women who stated that they use saliva testing and their are other reputable hormone replacement doctors who use it as well! I can only go by my experience, and my experience with saliva testing (even though I didn't believe in it either) was a positive one!
Best Wishes to all,
TJ
QUOTE (SKEEWEEAKA @ Mar 20 2009, 05:33 PM)
With all due respect to all, I'm certainly not playing doctor (I'M TRYING TO FEEL BETTER JUST LIKE THE REST OF YOU) at all and I really don't understand the venom! I realize that there are individuals here who feel that because I'm not a "seasoned" veteran on these boards that my oninion isn't valuable, but I disagree! I, too, looked up the supplement that she was taking and saw that it contained phytoestrogens and progesterones...i.e. wild yam...which is why I recommended discontinuing it! The reason that I pointed out that her progesterone was high is because higher progesterone levels will result in higher other hormones (which are showing up in the saliva tests AS INDICATED)...i.e. testosterone, estrogen, cortisol, etc., which can essentially make things worse! Initially, the supplement probably worked because her estrogen was low, but the problem with "natural" phytoestrogens and phytoprogesterones is that you are not able to control the dosage. Essentially, there is no difference, however, because whether BHRT or "natural" they both impact your hormone level and your quality of life! If it is just an estrogen issue then perhaps soy products would be best to eliminate the hot flashes!
I also wanted to point out that a natural doctor is better equipped at helping her, as opposed to someone else who probably has no clue so I would work with the natural doctor who is already trying to figure out the problem.
Again, regarding the saliva testing, there have been plenty of women who stated that they use saliva testing and their are other reputable hormone replacement doctors who use it as well! I can only go by my experience, and my experience with saliva testing (even though I didn't believe in it either) was a positive one!
Best Wishes to all,
TJ
I also wanted to point out that a natural doctor is better equipped at helping her, as opposed to someone else who probably has no clue so I would work with the natural doctor who is already trying to figure out the problem.
Again, regarding the saliva testing, there have been plenty of women who stated that they use saliva testing and their are other reputable hormone replacement doctors who use it as well! I can only go by my experience, and my experience with saliva testing (even though I didn't believe in it either) was a positive one!
Best Wishes to all,
TJ
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Aw...sorry I have caused so much conflicting discussion, this wasn't meant to be!
I sought out an alternative Dr. after being discarded by many regular Dr's by my symptoms, they simply had no time and didn't really care!.....my alternative lady really does care and is so sweet and knowledgable!...
I have thrown $$$$'s at this issue of feeling better, and it is so frustrating to get conflicting advice, I just don't want to spend anymore time and money, but alas, I know I will have to!
I really do appreciate ALL your advice and am taking the recommendations of stopping the herbal equilibrium, even though I am NOT wanting the hot spells back.....I guess I will focus on getting those sorted out another way (at least I can save money on those!)....
Sariah...am a bit confused by you saying my estradiol is low, as on my test it shows high (normal range for post-meno no HRT is 1-4, and mine is 17) and you say that the vitex-chaste berry should not be taken by someone with estrogen deficiency...mine is all too high!.....are we all confused yet?
Boy, you girls are all so knowledgable, I feel like I need a degree in hormones to understand any of this!!!
TJ...please don't feel like your opinions are being overlooked, quite the contrary, they all matter to me, and I'm sure we all agree that this is a good healthy discussion and respect each others opinions and choices.
Iradan.....thanks for the total OK on my CHO test....I'm quite pleased about it, as I do try and eat a very healthy diet and exercise regularly.
THANKYOU ALL!
big hugs
Caz
I sought out an alternative Dr. after being discarded by many regular Dr's by my symptoms, they simply had no time and didn't really care!.....my alternative lady really does care and is so sweet and knowledgable!...
I have thrown $$$$'s at this issue of feeling better, and it is so frustrating to get conflicting advice, I just don't want to spend anymore time and money, but alas, I know I will have to!
I really do appreciate ALL your advice and am taking the recommendations of stopping the herbal equilibrium, even though I am NOT wanting the hot spells back.....I guess I will focus on getting those sorted out another way (at least I can save money on those!)....
Sariah...am a bit confused by you saying my estradiol is low, as on my test it shows high (normal range for post-meno no HRT is 1-4, and mine is 17) and you say that the vitex-chaste berry should not be taken by someone with estrogen deficiency...mine is all too high!.....are we all confused yet?
Boy, you girls are all so knowledgable, I feel like I need a degree in hormones to understand any of this!!!
TJ...please don't feel like your opinions are being overlooked, quite the contrary, they all matter to me, and I'm sure we all agree that this is a good healthy discussion and respect each others opinions and choices.
Iradan.....thanks for the total OK on my CHO test....I'm quite pleased about it, as I do try and eat a very healthy diet and exercise regularly.
THANKYOU ALL!
big hugs
Caz
I tried the saliva test, and it also read opposite to what was the case. It showed I had really high estrogen, and I knew as soon as I saw the results it was wrong.
Supplementing with Estrogel gave me almost instant energy, my body ****** that estrogen up like water on a parched garden. I would "confirm" you saliva testing with a blood test, just for reassurance. To treat yourself oppositely to what you need could end in disaster for you.
Skee, your opinion is very valuable here. You have a lot of knowledge to share, and I find the many differing experiences on here what makes PS so special. There isn't one "set of rules" that works for everyone.
Supplementing with Estrogel gave me almost instant energy, my body ****** that estrogen up like water on a parched garden. I would "confirm" you saliva testing with a blood test, just for reassurance. To treat yourself oppositely to what you need could end in disaster for you.
Skee, your opinion is very valuable here. You have a lot of knowledge to share, and I find the many differing experiences on here what makes PS so special. There isn't one "set of rules" that works for everyone.
Hi TJ,
Where is the venom? I honestly don't see it. Iradan and I were simply giving opinions. I realize it's difficult to hear the tone of a post, so if I came across that way I apologize. We did have different opinions, but the posts were respectful as far as I can see. I was not addressing anything you said, just speaking to caz-art and commenting on Iradan's posts.
And one does not need to be a seasoned veteran here to be able to contribute valuable information. I have found your posts very helpful and informative, so please do not let differing opinions keep you from adding your .02 There's room here for many opinions and experiences.
I don't doubt at all that you found the saliva tests to be accurate, and I believe I did mention that for some they do work. I just pointed out that for me and many others they were not accurate and studies have shown their accuracy to be inconsistent.
I am all for whatever works, no matter what. What works for me might make you totally miserable. I think it's great that someone who is considering hormones can come here and be able to read different opinions and information so they can make a more informed choice.
Where is the venom? I honestly don't see it. Iradan and I were simply giving opinions. I realize it's difficult to hear the tone of a post, so if I came across that way I apologize. We did have different opinions, but the posts were respectful as far as I can see. I was not addressing anything you said, just speaking to caz-art and commenting on Iradan's posts.
And one does not need to be a seasoned veteran here to be able to contribute valuable information. I have found your posts very helpful and informative, so please do not let differing opinions keep you from adding your .02 There's room here for many opinions and experiences.
I don't doubt at all that you found the saliva tests to be accurate, and I believe I did mention that for some they do work. I just pointed out that for me and many others they were not accurate and studies have shown their accuracy to be inconsistent.
I am all for whatever works, no matter what. What works for me might make you totally miserable. I think it's great that someone who is considering hormones can come here and be able to read different opinions and information so they can make a more informed choice.
thanks Floats...
I think i may well follow up with a blood test just to confirm these findings...after all, how can I have NO sex drive with a high testosterone level?!
have a great evening...it's Friday night...party!
Caz
I think i may well follow up with a blood test just to confirm these findings...after all, how can I have NO sex drive with a high testosterone level?!
have a great evening...it's Friday night...party!
Caz
QUOTE (Sariah @ Mar 20 2009, 05:59 PM)
Hi TJ,
Where is the venom? I honestly don't see it. Iradan and I were simply giving opinions. I realize it's difficult to hear the tone of a post, so if I came across that way I apologize. We did have different opinions, but the posts were respectful as far as I can see. I was not addressing anything you said, just speaking to caz-art and commenting on Iradan's posts.
And one does not need to be a seasoned veteran here to be able to contribute valuable information. I have found your posts very helpful and informative, so please do not let differing opinions keep you from adding your .02 There's room here for many opinions and experiences.
I don't doubt at all that you found the saliva tests to be accurate, and I believe I did mention that for some they do work. I just pointed out that for me and many others they were not accurate and studies have shown their accuracy to be inconsistent.
I am all for whatever works, no matter what. What works for me might make you totally miserable. I think it's great that someone who is considering hormones can come here and be able to read different opinions and information so they can make a more informed choice.
Where is the venom? I honestly don't see it. Iradan and I were simply giving opinions. I realize it's difficult to hear the tone of a post, so if I came across that way I apologize. We did have different opinions, but the posts were respectful as far as I can see. I was not addressing anything you said, just speaking to caz-art and commenting on Iradan's posts.
And one does not need to be a seasoned veteran here to be able to contribute valuable information. I have found your posts very helpful and informative, so please do not let differing opinions keep you from adding your .02 There's room here for many opinions and experiences.
I don't doubt at all that you found the saliva tests to be accurate, and I believe I did mention that for some they do work. I just pointed out that for me and many others they were not accurate and studies have shown their accuracy to be inconsistent.
I am all for whatever works, no matter what. What works for me might make you totally miserable. I think it's great that someone who is considering hormones can come here and be able to read different opinions and information so they can make a more informed choice.
Ditto, I am clueless on what is going on here, I only commented as Caz asked me to via PM, I try to stay out of debates, it was too stressful before and I think there is not need to start another one.
I gave my opinion and I agree with Sariah, and if TJ thinks different, it is fine by me but it won;t make me change my opinion.
I seriously thing we should avoid "reading between the lines" and using words like "venum", "seasoned veteran", etc.
It is not a political board, just post what you think is right, no one is playing games here.
My post was addressed to Caz only, no one else, if I wanted to comment on TJ's post, I would reply directly.
I guess best idea for me not to post at all. Sariah, no need to apologize, you did not offend anyone.
caz,
Sorry to contribute to the confusion, I do not know why I thought you had low E. I had been responding to several posts and PMs and they all had low E.
On the other hand, I would not believe the results of the saliva unless they were confirmed by a blood test. If one finds from doing both a saliva and blood test (the same day) that both seem to correlate with each other and symptoms, then from then on I think you could reasonably expect the saliva to be accurate for you. But using the blood test as a proof the first time would let you know if you can trust the saliva test.
Sorry to contribute to the confusion, I do not know why I thought you had low E. I had been responding to several posts and PMs and they all had low E.
On the other hand, I would not believe the results of the saliva unless they were confirmed by a blood test. If one finds from doing both a saliva and blood test (the same day) that both seem to correlate with each other and symptoms, then from then on I think you could reasonably expect the saliva to be accurate for you. But using the blood test as a proof the first time would let you know if you can trust the saliva test.
QUOTE (Sariah @ Mar 20 2009, 06:59 PM)
Hi TJ,
Where is the venom? I honestly don't see it. Iradan and I were simply giving opinions. I realize it's difficult to hear the tone of a post, so if I came across that way I apologize. We did have different opinions, but the posts were respectful as far as I can see. I was not addressing anything you said, just speaking to caz-art and commenting on Iradan's posts.
And one does not need to be a seasoned veteran here to be able to contribute valuable information. I have found your posts very helpful and informative, so please do not let differing opinions keep you from adding your .02 There's room here for many opinions and experiences.
I don't doubt at all that you found the saliva tests to be accurate, and I believe I did mention that for some they do work. I just pointed out that for me and many others they were not accurate and studies have shown their accuracy to be inconsistent.
I am all for whatever works, no matter what. What works for me might make you totally miserable. I think it's great that someone who is considering hormones can come here and be able to read different opinions and information so they can make a more informed choice.
Where is the venom? I honestly don't see it. Iradan and I were simply giving opinions. I realize it's difficult to hear the tone of a post, so if I came across that way I apologize. We did have different opinions, but the posts were respectful as far as I can see. I was not addressing anything you said, just speaking to caz-art and commenting on Iradan's posts.
And one does not need to be a seasoned veteran here to be able to contribute valuable information. I have found your posts very helpful and informative, so please do not let differing opinions keep you from adding your .02 There's room here for many opinions and experiences.
I don't doubt at all that you found the saliva tests to be accurate, and I believe I did mention that for some they do work. I just pointed out that for me and many others they were not accurate and studies have shown their accuracy to be inconsistent.
I am all for whatever works, no matter what. What works for me might make you totally miserable. I think it's great that someone who is considering hormones can come here and be able to read different opinions and information so they can make a more informed choice.
Sariah,
I think everyone knows I was not referring to your post. The "venom" involved the playing doctor comment from "I" as well as other comments that I have read when I add my opinion on this particular board. I thoroughly understand why some women choose not to even bother to post their opinions or experiences because they know that they will be dismissed. If I misconstrued those posts and those backhanded comments, then I apologize. I, however, doubt it!
In regards to womentowomen, I found their estrogen dominance information invaluable and their graph on the women's menstrual cycle (which I refer to quite frequently) but that is the extent of my involvement with that site. In regard to the debate over blood versus saliva, I'm sure that will continue but I think one has to look at their symptoms and then look at their test results which is what good doctors do. I'm sure there is not a lab in the United States that has not had "false results" at one time or another which is why Uzzi Reiss suggests getting the SHBG at the same time.
Finally, back to my main point that whether it is phytoestrogens, phytoprogesterones, BHRT, synthetic hormones, or environmental estrogens in the INCORRECT DOSAGES they can all do us harm and greatly impact our quality of life!
Caz, it doesn't matter whether you get a blood test or saliva test your results are going to be different if you stop the hormones.
Best Wishes,
TJ
Caz, I also wanted to point out that high testosterone does not equal high libido but it can mean hair loss, hair growth in the wrong places, as well as anger and rage issues. My free testosterone is high and my total testosterone is middle of the road and my libido does not surface until I use progesterone. There are also many women who have used testosterone and still could not find their libidos...unfortunately it is a delicate balance and does not indicate that those saliva tests were wrong.
Best Wishes,
TJ
Best Wishes,
TJ
QUOTE (SKEEWEEAKA @ Mar 20 2009, 08:50 PM)
Sariah,
I think everyone knows I was not referring to your post. The "venom" involved the playing doctor comment from "I" as well as other comments that I have read when I add my opinion on this particular board. I thoroughly understand why some women choose not to even bother to post their opinions or experiences because they know that they will be dismissed. If I misconstrued those posts and those backhanded comments, then I apologize. I, however, doubt it!
I think everyone knows I was not referring to your post. The "venom" involved the playing doctor comment from "I" as well as other comments that I have read when I add my opinion on this particular board. I thoroughly understand why some women choose not to even bother to post their opinions or experiences because they know that they will be dismissed. If I misconstrued those posts and those backhanded comments, then I apologize. I, however, doubt it!
It is really something, you continue to push your agenda! What makes you think that I have even read your post before adding my reply, in most cases I simply address OP, and try to stay out of heated debates.
FYI, when I said, I am not playing doctor I meant MYSELF, as I have as much knowledge as any other women that have read few books and spent enough time surfing the web, however I am not of medical profession, and I always state MO only. I did not read the thread to the end, I addressed my reply to OP per her request!
I am not going to apologize for something I did not do or did not imply, however, it is not good enough for you anyway, obviously you are determined to make a case out of all of my post even there is no commenting or addressing your posts directly or indirectly.
Everyone can state their opinion, there is no "mob" or "seasoned veteran" club,
Finally, this is not a high school or play ground, I barely post lately, and I never dismiss other women experience ...unless they tell depressed person on ADs that is asking for advice which medication is better for her, that she is going to have permanent brain damage and seizures if she continues to take ADs.......... and this is what you call sharing experience...BTW, I was not the only one who "dismissed" your experience back then!
You still can't get over the argument over ADs but it is your personal issue. I am done, you keep making it up, it is really silly of me to even trying to explain myself.
[quote name='caz-art' date='Mar 20 2009, 01:00 PM' post='273998']
Hi ladies....
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
She cannot understand that I am not taking any hormones as my estrogen levels AND my testosterone levels are all very high (yeh, whats up with that testosterone...I mean, I thought high levels meant your were like a sex fiend...I have NO libido whatsoever!!!)
She also told me to stop taking the herbal stuff - but I checked with W to W and they said they should only balance the hormones NOT elevate them? - and stop taking any soy products (I only have a a little soy milk in tea, so I'm not overdoing soy by a long way).....until she talks to the lab and interprets the results a bit better .
I also did a cholesterol test and my total is just into the high range (207) and she also ordered another 2 tests with that which were homocysteine (which was normal) and APOLIPROTEIN A1 which was elevated at 205 (range is 101-198)...which she said usually is a sign of heart disease......!!!!!!....but said that it could be that the high estrogen levels are pushing that up (whatever that is!)...
Anyone able to help me out here?
And what is Luteal?.....I've heard some of you mention it on here, but I don't know what it means!
Thanks girls!
Caz
hi. i have my labs posted on my profile notes page if you are interested in reading them. i hope that you are having a good weekend thus far!
best,
ep
Hi ladies....
I just got my postmenopausal tests back...unfortunately my appointment with my alternative Dr. was at 9am this morning and she only just got given the results from the lab, so did not have time to fully interpret, so is going to check them out over the next few days....
So, it does seem that my estrogen levels and testosterone are very high (?)......and juts in case anyone asks, I DON"T take any hormones or anything, only 'herbal equilibrium' from women to women (which is supposed to just balance them and HAS stopped my nightime hot spells).
DHEA.................4 (normal range 3-10ng/ml)
Testosterone......25 elevated (normal 8-20pg/ml)
E1 Estrone.........73 (normal 26-64 for ages 50-59)
E2 Estradiol........17 (post-meno-no HRT range 1-4pg/ml)
(HRT range 5-13pg/ml)
(Follicular 5-13pg/ml)
(Luteal 7-20pg/ml)
E3 Estriol..........53 (postmeno- no HRT range 7-18pg/ml)
(HRT range 14-38pg/ml)
(cycling female 12-25pg/ml - which I am not!)
P1 Progesterone...126 (post-meno-no HRT 5-95pg/ml)
(HRT range 100-300pg/ml)
(Follicular 20-100pg/ml)
(Luteal 65-500pg/ml)
FSH....................589(!) (pre-meno less than 125)
(post-meno 90-500)
LH (luteinizing hormone)...77 (HRT 8-30)
(post-meno no HRT 25-200uiU/ml)
She cannot understand that I am not taking any hormones as my estrogen levels AND my testosterone levels are all very high (yeh, whats up with that testosterone...I mean, I thought high levels meant your were like a sex fiend...I have NO libido whatsoever!!!)
She also told me to stop taking the herbal stuff - but I checked with W to W and they said they should only balance the hormones NOT elevate them? - and stop taking any soy products (I only have a a little soy milk in tea, so I'm not overdoing soy by a long way).....until she talks to the lab and interprets the results a bit better .
I also did a cholesterol test and my total is just into the high range (207) and she also ordered another 2 tests with that which were homocysteine (which was normal) and APOLIPROTEIN A1 which was elevated at 205 (range is 101-198)...which she said usually is a sign of heart disease......!!!!!!....but said that it could be that the high estrogen levels are pushing that up (whatever that is!)...
Anyone able to help me out here?
And what is Luteal?.....I've heard some of you mention it on here, but I don't know what it means!
Thanks girls!
Caz
hi. i have my labs posted on my profile notes page if you are interested in reading them. i hope that you are having a good weekend thus far!
best,
ep
thanks EP..they look so much different from mine...are they salivary or blood tests?
caz
caz
[quote name='caz-art' date='Mar 21 2009, 10:22 AM' post='274161']
thanks EP..they look so much different from mine...are they salivary or blood tests?
caz
blood work.
thanks EP..they look so much different from mine...are they salivary or blood tests?
caz
blood work.
Ah maybe thats why..mine were salivary.
QUOTE (Iradan @ Mar 21 2009, 01:43 AM)
It is really something, you continue to push your agenda! What makes you think that I have even read your post before adding my reply, in most cases I simply address OP, and try to stay out of heated debates.
FYI, when I said, I am not playing doctor I meant MYSELF, as I have as much knowledge as any other women that have read few books and spent enough time surfing the web, however I am not of medical profession, and I always state MO only. I did not read the thread to the end, I addressed my reply to OP per her request!
I am not going to apologize for something I did not do or did not imply, however, it is not good enough for you anyway, obviously you are determined to make a case out of all of my post even there is no commenting or addressing your posts directly or indirectly.
Everyone can state their opinion, there is no "mob" or "seasoned veteran" club,
Finally, this is not a high school or play ground, I barely post lately, and I never dismiss other women experience ...unless they tell depressed person on ADs that is asking for advice which medication is better for her, that she is going to have permanent brain damage and seizures if she continues to take ADs.......... and this is what you call sharing experience...BTW, I was not the only one who "dismissed" your experience back then!
You still can't get over the argument over ADs but it is your personal issue. I am done, you keep making it up, it is really silly of me to even trying to explain myself.
FYI, when I said, I am not playing doctor I meant MYSELF, as I have as much knowledge as any other women that have read few books and spent enough time surfing the web, however I am not of medical profession, and I always state MO only. I did not read the thread to the end, I addressed my reply to OP per her request!
I am not going to apologize for something I did not do or did not imply, however, it is not good enough for you anyway, obviously you are determined to make a case out of all of my post even there is no commenting or addressing your posts directly or indirectly.
Everyone can state their opinion, there is no "mob" or "seasoned veteran" club,
Finally, this is not a high school or play ground, I barely post lately, and I never dismiss other women experience ...unless they tell depressed person on ADs that is asking for advice which medication is better for her, that she is going to have permanent brain damage and seizures if she continues to take ADs.......... and this is what you call sharing experience...BTW, I was not the only one who "dismissed" your experience back then!
You still can't get over the argument over ADs but it is your personal issue. I am done, you keep making it up, it is really silly of me to even trying to explain myself.
Iradan, I'm past the debate over AD's and the usage of them. I don't recall stating that one AD was better over another, I simply stated my experience which was not a good one but so have others on these boards and I don't remember them being "mobed" or told that they were not "seasoned veterans" but others have been.
You're right it isn't a high school playground, it s a place where women come to get answers regarding choices that they are trying to make to feel better. I speak the truth as I know it, as do others, and I respect their decisions because it is their body not mine.
Best Wishes,
TJ
EasyPause,
Your estradiol levels are in the toilet if I am reading it correctly--17? Very low, should be 100 or more for symptom relief.
Your estradiol levels are in the toilet if I am reading it correctly--17? Very low, should be 100 or more for symptom relief.
[quote name='Sariah' date='Mar 21 2009, 07:30 PM' post='274235']
EasyPause,
Your estradiol levels are in the toilet if I am reading it correctly--17? Very low, should be 100 or more for symptom relief.
hi! thank you for your response, sariah. i'm symptom-free, basically. the good part is that my breast tenderness is totally absent. i had that issue my entire life before menopause [but from what i understand, i'm post-menopause and it came early].
EasyPause,
Your estradiol levels are in the toilet if I am reading it correctly--17? Very low, should be 100 or more for symptom relief.
hi! thank you for your response, sariah. i'm symptom-free, basically. the good part is that my breast tenderness is totally absent. i had that issue my entire life before menopause [but from what i understand, i'm post-menopause and it came early].
Sariah
It is my level of Estradiol that is 17....here is the reference ranges on my lab report, which states I am way too high!!:
Post menopause- no HRT range 1-4pg/ml (this is the one I should fall in)
HRT range 5-13pg/ml (which I am not on)
Follicular 5-13pg/ml
Luteal 7-20pg/ml (this is the one I fall into...don't know what it means though for a postmenopausal woman)
Caz
It is my level of Estradiol that is 17....here is the reference ranges on my lab report, which states I am way too high!!:
Post menopause- no HRT range 1-4pg/ml (this is the one I should fall in)
HRT range 5-13pg/ml (which I am not on)
Follicular 5-13pg/ml
Luteal 7-20pg/ml (this is the one I fall into...don't know what it means though for a postmenopausal woman)
Caz
Caz,
Most of us don't go by post-meno ranges, as they differ and also we know we are feeling like c**p on at those levels. Every book I've read says that the estradiol levels should be at a minimum of 90-100 and preferable higher for symptom relief. But if you are not having symptoms at such a low level, then I personally wouldn't use anything. It would mean your body is adapting to the low levels like it should be.
Most of us don't go by post-meno ranges, as they differ and also we know we are feeling like c**p on at those levels. Every book I've read says that the estradiol levels should be at a minimum of 90-100 and preferable higher for symptom relief. But if you are not having symptoms at such a low level, then I personally wouldn't use anything. It would mean your body is adapting to the low levels like it should be.
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