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goingcrazytoday
Ok, soo, I am still confused LOL. TSH is 1.209 - reference range is (0.300-5.000) , Estrogen <50 PG/ML , Ultra Testosterone was 22 NG/DL reference range (2-45)
Estrogen Interpretive Data - Female Cycle: 1-10 days 61-394 pg/ml, 11-20 days 122-437 pg/ml, 21-30 days 156-350 pg/ml
Prepubertal <40 pg/ml, Postmenopausal <40 pg/ml

I don't understand any of this garbage. I am trying to get thru the day without crying. But, WHOOPS as I speak about it, here the tears come...

I cried uncontrollably last night because I just don't want to wake up anymore. I am so sad for no reason & have bad anxiety for no reason. I did good all day until I got out in public to go to the book store. I found one book I wanted & just about cried when I went to 2 book stores and neither had what I wanted. I hate this so bad.

I need a shoulder to lean on so bad. I have 9 days before I see GYN & I sure hope she has a different look at things. My only other option is the clinic I wanted to go to that is an 8 hour drive. I bought the It's My Ovaries Stupid! Book by Dr. Vliet. I'm hoping this will help me pass the time away until my appt.

Thanks,
Amber
kimdnov
Hi Amber,
I am not a Doctor, but I read a lot of books. Your Estrogen level is low. Optimal Estrogen level is 150 and yours is
definitely low. Please read Elizabeths book and call Bellevue Pharmacy and talk to a Pharmacist about your levels.
The number is 1-800-728-0288. Hang in there. I can relate to what you are going through. I am on bio-identicals
and most of my symptoms have been relieved. I still get a little nervous during my cycle. But I am feeling so much
better. I sleep, do not have night sweats, no hot flashes and my anxiety is much less. I have only been taking a
low dose for a short time. I started sleeping within 3 days.

I am so glad you found this site.

Kim
I wil pray for you. Also you are not alone.
SKEEWEEAKA
QUOTE (goingcrazytoday @ Feb 23 2009, 04:44 PM) *
Ok, soo, I am still confused LOL. TSH is 1.209 - reference range is (0.300-5.000) , Estrogen <50 PG/ML , Ultra Testosterone was 22 NG/DL reference range (2-45)
Estrogen Interpretive Data - Female Cycle: 1-10 days 61-394 pg/ml, 11-20 days 122-437 pg/ml, 21-30 days 156-350 pg/ml
Prepubertal <40 pg/ml, Postmenopausal <40 pg/ml

I don't understand any of this garbage. I am trying to get thru the day without crying. But, WHOOPS as I speak about it, here the tears come...

I cried uncontrollably last night because I just don't want to wake up anymore. I am so sad for no reason & have bad anxiety for no reason. I did good all day until I got out in public to go to the book store. I found one book I wanted & just about cried when I went to 2 book stores and neither had what I wanted. I hate this so bad.

I need a shoulder to lean on so bad. I have 9 days before I see GYN & I sure hope she has a different look at things. My only other option is the clinic I wanted to go to that is an 8 hour drive. I bought the It's My Ovaries Stupid! Book by Dr. Vliet. I'm hoping this will help me pass the time away until my appt.

Thanks,
Amber


Amber, your TSH is low.... You might want to get further testing for your thyroid because thyroid can only make peri or meno worse. You need Free T3 and Free T4 as well as thyroid antibodies if they will order them for you... Estrogen and testosterone are also both low contributing to your symptoms. Thyroid can cause depression and mood swings...estrogen and testosterone the same...imbalances I mean! The other estrogen numbers are just telling you what your levels should be like on those days of your cycle...but as the other lady suggested your estrogen is just too low...

I'm happy that you are reading up so that you are prepared for your appointment. Vliet covers everything in her book, including thyroid! I hope that your OBGYN is experienced in BHRt, most unfortunately are not!

I hope that you are doing something for yourself today to get through this difficult time...my fingers are crossed that your doctor is up on hormone replacement...

TJ wub.gif
Floater
Your Estrogen is very low, particulary for someone who is 31 years old. I don't care if you have had a hyster or not, that is just way too low for you to feel well. I hope you can get your Gyn to give you Estogen supplements because I think you really need it.

Your TSH number is on the low side, but usually that is a good thing, it is a sign that your Thyroid Stimulating Hormone is not overproducing. Which usually means your thyroid is functioning just fine.
SKEEWEEAKA
QUOTE (Floater @ Feb 23 2009, 08:22 PM) *
Your Estrogen is very low, particulary for someone who is 31 years old. I don't care if you have had a hyster or not, that is just way too low for you to feel well. I hope you can get your Gyn to give you Estogen supplements because I think you really need it.

Your TSH number is on the low side, but usually that is a good thing, it is a sign that your Thyroid Stimulating Hormone is not overproducing. Which usually means your thyroid is functioning just fine.



Sorry Floater, but I have to disagree with you regarding TSH. TSH is not a good indicator of whether someone has a thyroid imbalance (unless they are far out of the range) and is instead a measure of the pituitary... smile.gif

According to stopthethyroidmadness.com...diagnosis and treatment based solely on labwork for thyroid is a consistent failure, leaving millions of patient either undiagnosed, or undertreated. Even worse, when labs are used, the majority of doctors are only doing the TSH and total T4 to diagnose or treat you, neither which give an accurate clue to your hypothyroid condition. Additionally, ranges are made the "end-all" of normalcy. Who reading this hasn't been told they are "normal" because an ink spot on a piece of paper falls within a dubious range, yet your body screams with NON-normal symptoms?So…when you visit your doctor, you have to be outspoken about your symptoms. Symptoms should be the conductor of the orchestra, and labs are simply adjuncts for more knowledge. Then, when labs are mentioned, below are those we recommend you insist to your doctor that you want. Farther down, you can see explanations of all labs.


Best Wishes...


TJ wub.gif
wordsmith
Hey Amber,

I would ask for supplemental estradiol and testosterone on that doctor's visit. Your estrogen is low (unless you are menstruating and it was day 3 of your cycle, but I doubt it, because you feel so bad). Feel good estrogen level is 90 and above. Your testosterone is low, their reference ranges are not optimal, to feel good it should be 40-60 or 70.

As for the TSH, not to confuse you further, but your number is perfect! (Sorry TJ, I usually agree with you, and I do see your point about more thorough thyroid testing). Mine was the same and my doctor said, your thyroid is doing great! (Also in Suzanne Somers book, she wrote that between 1 and 2 is ideal. (We want to see 3 and below.)

Sariah
I agree, TJ, TSH alone cannot tell the whole picture and many thyroid docs who keep up with the latest studies will tell you that. TSH is a pituitary hormone, and it's been shown that many times the pituitary may not be functioning as it should. And there are things called TSH receptor blocking antibodies that can actually block the action of TSH, so it looks as though there is enough TSH to stimulate the thyroid but in actuality it's not getting to do it's job because it is being blocked at the receptor level and the thyroid is not getting the message.

That is why it is crucial to know the levels of the free T3 and free T4, since those are actual thyroid hormones, and they are unbound and usable by the body. It is not enough to measure just the free T4, since it is not the active hormone, it becomes active when an iodine molecule is removed and it becomes T3, which is the active hormone. Many people do not convert the T4 to the active T3 for several reasons, one being selenium deficiency, another being iron deficiency along with other factors. (Several studies in PubMed on this) And some people have enough T3 in the blood, but it is being block by too much rT3 (reverse T3).

And then, of course, there is the whole autoimmune component. Hashimoto's thryoiditis is the most common cause of hypothyroidism today. Studies show, and the best docs understand, that when then you absolutely cannot rely on TSH as a true picture of thyroid function. And 'normal ranges' are often skewed because they discovered later that often occult autoimmune thyroid patients were inadvertently included in studies used to determine what the 'normal' range was. Many docs don't realize that one can indeed be hypoT if their T3/T4 numbers are not in the upper part of the range, or if the TSH is greater than 2.

I've saved lots of studies on this, since I researched it heavily when I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me. It turned out I do have Hashi's and thankfully I have a doc who does keep up with the latest findings on thyroid problems.
wordsmith
I didn't realize that Amber was only 31.

At that age, with those depression and anxiety symptoms, the first suspect would be the thyroid and it is important to do a complete thyroid panel. I re-read Dr. Vliet in "Screaming to be Heard" and she does say all tests should be done when symptoms are bad because of issues such as thyroiditis even with a seemingly normal TSH.

I would assume the estrogen and testosterone are low because it was taken in the first three days of the cycle.

After thyroid, there is always the possiblity of neurotransmitter problems. Sometimes SSRIs are the right choice.




Happymom07
"I would assume the estrogen and testosterone are low because it was taken in the first three days of the cycle."

Amber has had a hysterectomy and only has one ovary. Her estrogen is at menopausal level and my guess is she is not cycling... at least not normally. I think she should try to get her estrogen levels up to at least 90 or above to feel better before doing any thyroid testing or adding any type of AD. First treat the hormone deficiencies before going on any type of medication. The estrogen may be all she ends up needing.

Happymom
malkachava
I just want to underscore what TJ has so articulately written.

I was a victim of "You are within normal TSH range" for years. Then I found a fabulous internist who actually listened to what I had to say. I was crushingly exhausted, I had gained weight, my hair was falling out, and I felt like he** overall. The doctor tested the TSH, and T3 and T4, and told me that I fell within what is called the "subclinical range." The combination of the numbers and the symptoms warranted medicine. I now take 75 micrograms of Synthroid, and I feel terrific. In fact, I am probably better than I have ever been in my life.

It is critical to test TSH, T3, and T4. The pituitary and the thyroid work as a kind of loop and feedback system. If one is off, the other can be very off as well.

Best to all,
Marcy
Happymom07
That is true Marcy and I agree with you that those should all be tested. But I have also read that low estrogen can effect the thyroid and once estrogen is balanced it is possible the thyroid hormones will balance out as well... that is why I suggested getting the estrogen supplemented first... regardless, I heartily agree that all the thyroid tests are important! biggrin.gif

Happymom

goingcrazytoday
Yes, I only have one ovary & I do not have a menstrual cycle anymore. This is just all so hard to believe!I have been feeling pretty cruddy for at least the past 2-3 years!How I feel has gotten much worse in the past year. I have been in and out of a walk in clinic for probably 3 years. Telling the Dr. I just don't feel good, he would throws anti-depressants at me & sends me on my way. Those seemed like they worked for a bit, but then I wonder if I was just psyching myself out in hopes of feeling better?Because, I always ended up back at his office!Annnd, he would give me another anti-depressant to take. UGH. Knowing, I had a hysterectomy that is all he had to suggest?

I have been reading Dr. Vliet's book, and I am just amazed that I have been thrown anti-depressants & thrown to a psychologist that diagnosed me as Bipolar. I have taken to many medications to count for that & nothing has helped me in that catagory. I strongly think I was misdiagnosed. Especially, after reading here somewhere that some women get wrote of as being Bipolar & they really are not?I feel like the medication I took really made me worse off!!!One Dr. had me on 1200mg of Lithium, plus Zoloft & another med for Bipolar. I was taking 7 pills a day??????I got really sick from the Lithium, it was crazy. I went to another Dr. in the same clinic & she about fell over when I told her the psych had me on that much medication?And it wasn't doing anything except making me worse?

After coming here, I truely believe that the whole hormonal issue is my problem. I can't believe I have been suffering so long. It makes me really sad that I didn't think about this before?I have 8 days left & I am really excited about getting to my appt. The NP that I am going to at the GYN deals with the hormonal issues of women. I'm hoping she will take care of me & agree to continue treatment!If not, I told my husband I am traveling the 8 hr drive to see the lady that specializes in the area.

I'm just going to write down my symptoms, tests I want done & hope for the best!

I called the Bellevue Pharmacy & talked to a pharmacy tech or pharmacist about my results like Kim suggested. I just cried and cried to her. I felt so embaressed, but she was a big help. She said that she couldn't diagnose me over the phone of course but, as all you have told me, she also said estrogen is to low.

Thank you to everyone for your support
davinci817
I was tossed out of the Doctors office several times with an anti depressant because I was "to young". I have now had a proper blood work up done and guess what? My P is way to low, my T is way to high and I have some other questionable hormones too. Be persistant and get checked on the proper days of the month and if one Doctor won't help find another!
goingcrazytoday
QUOTE (davinci817 @ Feb 24 2009, 04:44 PM) *
I was tossed out of the Doctors office several times with an anti depressant because I was "to young". I have now had a proper blood work up done and guess what? My P is way to low, my T is way to high and I have some other questionable hormones too. Be persistant and get checked on the proper days of the month and if one Doctor won't help find another!



How do you no the proper days of the month to be checked when you don't have a cycle anymore?
Amber
Sariah
QUOTE (Happymom07 @ Feb 24 2009, 10:16 AM) *
That is true Marcy and I agree with you that those should all be tested. But I have also read that low estrogen can effect the thyroid and once estrogen is balanced it is possible the thyroid hormones will balance out as well... that is why I suggested getting the estrogen supplemented first... regardless, I heartily agree that all the thyroid tests are important! biggrin.gif

Happymom


Conversely, low thyroid affects all the hormones, even the adrenal ones. I was using Estrogel prior to starting thyroid meds, and while it helped, it didn't help nearly as well as the thyroid med did. On the various thyroid/adrenal groups I'm on, it is understood that one first needs to address the thyroid and adrenals, and often the other hormone problems will diminish or disappear, or at least require much lower doses of exogenous hormones than would otherwise have been needed if the thyroid and adrenals were not functioning up to par.

The adrenals are supposed to take over production of the ovarian hormones, albeit in smaller amounts, as we go into menopause. They can't do that if they have a diminished cortisol output, then the precursor hormones that are supposed to get converted to sex hormones instead are diverted into cortisol production.
feelnhelpless
QUOTE (Sariah @ Feb 24 2009, 01:40 PM) *
Conversely, low thyroid affects all the hormones, even the adrenal ones. I was using Estrogel prior to starting thyroid meds, and while it helped, it didn't help nearly as well as the thyroid med did. On the various thyroid/adrenal groups I'm on, it is understood that one first needs to address the thyroid and adrenals, and often the other hormone problems will diminish or disappear, or at least require much lower doses of exogenous hormones than would otherwise have been needed if the thyroid and adrenals were not functioning up to par.

The adrenals are supposed to take over production of the ovarian hormones, albeit in smaller amounts, as we go into menopause. They can't do that if they have a diminished cortisol output, then the precursor hormones that are supposed to get converted to sex hormones instead are diverted into cortisol production.

Sariah,
I would like to talk to you about this . Look at my previous posts re: adrenals and hormone tests. I do not get it.
Thanks, Elizabeth
SKEEWEEAKA
QUOTE (goingcrazytoday @ Feb 24 2009, 02:27 PM) *
Yes, I only have one ovary & I do not have a menstrual cycle anymore. This is just all so hard to believe!I have been feeling pretty cruddy for at least the past 2-3 years!How I feel has gotten much worse in the past year. I have been in and out of a walk in clinic for probably 3 years. Telling the Dr. I just don't feel good, he would throws anti-depressants at me & sends me on my way. Those seemed like they worked for a bit, but then I wonder if I was just psyching myself out in hopes of feeling better?Because, I always ended up back at his office!Annnd, he would give me another anti-depressant to take. UGH. Knowing, I had a hysterectomy that is all he had to suggest?

I have been reading Dr. Vliet's book, and I am just amazed that I have been thrown anti-depressants & thrown to a psychologist that diagnosed me as Bipolar. I have taken to many medications to count for that & nothing has helped me in that catagory. I strongly think I was misdiagnosed. Especially, after reading here somewhere that some women get wrote of as being Bipolar & they really are not?I feel like the medication I took really made me worse off!!!One Dr. had me on 1200mg of Lithium, plus Zoloft & another med for Bipolar. I was taking 7 pills a day??????I got really sick from the Lithium, it was crazy. I went to another Dr. in the same clinic & she about fell over when I told her the psych had me on that much medication?And it wasn't doing anything except making me worse?

After coming here, I truely believe that the whole hormonal issue is my problem. I can't believe I have been suffering so long. It makes me really sad that I didn't think about this before?I have 8 days left & I am really excited about getting to my appt. The NP that I am going to at the GYN deals with the hormonal issues of women. I'm hoping she will take care of me & agree to continue treatment!If not, I told my husband I am traveling the 8 hr drive to see the lady that specializes in the area.

I'm just going to write down my symptoms, tests I want done & hope for the best!

I called the Bellevue Pharmacy & talked to a pharmacy tech or pharmacist about my results like Kim suggested. I just cried and cried to her. I felt so embaressed, but she was a big help. She said that she couldn't diagnose me over the phone of course but, as all you have told me, she also said estrogen is to low.

Thank you to everyone for your support


Wow! Another bipolar diagnosis...how many of us are on these boards looking for answers that we suspected all along! I for one am one of them! My hormonal profile is well documented, and yet, I still cannot get anyone to listen! When I read Screaming to Be Heard and It's My Ovaries Stupid FOUR YEARS AGO I was convinced that I could find someone to listen to me and provide me with the proper treatment...well I failed and I'm back again because it was a misdiagnosis!

Thyroid disease CAN MIMIC BIPOLAR DISORDER, specifically Hashimotos Disease... To date I know of five people who were misdiagnosed and found that they had thyroid disease...let alone those who just had female hormonal imbalances! Please don't give up, I trust and believe that you will find your way. You are definitely on the right track and just need to get the proper teseting done so that you know what your baseline numbers are!

You are not losing your mind...you are NOT!!! rolleyes.gif


TJ wub.gif
davinci817
QUOTE (goingcrazytoday @ Feb 24 2009, 03:02 PM) *
How do you no the proper days of the month to be checked when you don't have a cycle anymore?
Amber

We hubby and I have based it on how I feel, when I break out etc. I am sure like me you know when you are having your ups and downs. It isn't exact science but it can get you close enough. It's a real pain not bleeding isn't it lol? Don't get me wrong I don't miss it but it makes it darn hard to figure some of this out.
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