I have been reading a lot of posts about progesterone and how it seems to affect some of the ladies on PS. I have been using compounded ( prescription )Progesterone for 2 1/2 years. I never tried OTC because they cannot guarantee the acutal dose and quality.

I wanted to share what I have experienced and learned. Dosing progesterone for me never worked cylically or 14 days a month. All that creates is a greater rollercoaster. You do not have to stop taking progesterone monthly, according to my doctor and pharmacist that makes my cream. If you do stop you give yourself a huge rollercoaster ride. I am not telling anyone to change the way they take their cream I am just telling you what I was told and have experienced. The specialists at ZRT lab prescribed a dosing schedule for me where I take a slightly different amount each week of my cycle. I have found that this works best and guessing on your own only gets you into deeper problems. I have read so many posts that Dr. 's are prescribing 100mg or more of progesterone ! That is a hugh amount and our bodies only make naturally 50 mg daily at most. If you take that much progesterone it can cause you to feel horrible. I take from 60mg total daily ( split up in 2 doses 30mg am & 30 mg pm ) to 70 daily depending on which week it is in my cycle. If you have problems on it , it is usually because the dose is too high.

I highly recommend getting hormones tested through saliva or bloodspot tesing , whichever you prefer and dealing with real numbers and going from there.

When I started my treatment they started me on 20mg daily and very very slowly increased it over 6 months time. If you go too fast you will feel worse . Most women are impatient to feel better and just think more is better and they go way too fast and way too high. I totally understand because I am so impatient when I feel horrible. If you go slow and track symptoms carefully you can have a better quality life again. I track my symptoms daily so my pharmacist can see each month if anything might need changed. It is a pain in the butt but well worth it to feel better. Don't give up on progesterone go slow and start with low dosing and do it guided by a professional compounding pharmacist / doctor.



Bless all of you on PS

wendy

Interesting! Do you take estrogen at all? I too have been wondering about taking it continuously and wanted to see if my new doc would test my hormones in the follicular phase to see if what I suspect, that my estrogen levels are much higher then and only require opposed progesterone, is accurate. If that is so, I wanted to see if supplementing with a small amount of progesterone during that time would help because the few times I used a tiny bit it did help very much. I have oral sublinguals but I haven't started those because I've been wondering if the dosage might be too high (200)...might use 1/4 of the pill now that you have mentioned this...

Thanks TJ

I do not take any estrogen at all . I only take progesterone cream and testosterone cream ( 1.0 mg once daily ) I take 65 mg progesterone daily. I know 100 mg is a high dose and will mess a person up. It is beyond comprehension why any doctor would prescribe these high doses when our body only make a maximum of 50mg daily ( unless we're pregnant then it's more). Taking the smallest amount to alliviate symptoms is what anyone should do. My mom is post Meno and she also takes the same cream I do 45 mg daily and Bi-est cream . She takes is everyday without a break and does great on it. It will not stop you from having a period unless you are high doses. Progesterone BHRT cream has a lot of protective qualites ( anti- cancer ). My pharmacist said he sees so many patients who are overdosed. He has to cousel them and get their dose changed and then their fine without a break. He does very tailored comprehensive couseling and helps women so much, working with their docs who may not know anything about it. I am the first patient my doctor ever allowed to use it. I refused synthetic hormones. My doctor who is exactly 1 day older then me is a believer now . I have a lot of girlfriends on it too with great success. Get hormones tested on day 19,20,or 21 of cycle if you still have periods. If not then anyday is Ok. I use saliva testing and have used bloodspot too and both were very reliable. I will let you know how I do on my new tailored dosing. So far so good much much better. Depression is gone, anxiety is very low and energy is better. They lowered my P dose from 80 mg daily to 65. This will be the week that tells it all - the week before my period is supposed to start.


wendy

Hey Wendy,

I've had my blood levels checked in the luteal phase and saliva done in the luteal phase as well. The saliva tests were a bit different than the blood tests indicating much higher than normal progesterone levels and estradiol levels at the top end of the high range which was 20...the progesterone was 700+ and the max was 500... I'm not sure which is correct the blood or saliva testing...there is a debate about saliva's accuracy so I'm not sure. The blood tests showed both at the lowest end of the "normal" range... In additional, I'm still having regular periods. That said, I do know for sure that in the follicular phase is when I feel best although still having major depression, when estrogen is at its highest. In the luteal phase, when progesterone is at its highest is when I feel worse symptoms escalate and it is two weeks of shear terror...so during this phase I'm going to try a trial of estrogen to see if that helps or not... If the blood test is correct, then I would not need to supplement in the luteal phase with progesterone but I know it is necessary so I am unsure as to what to do about that...

Thanks for the information, I truly appreciate it!

TJ

Also, after writing this I found an article that is very good. It said that progesterone levels should be 20:1 in comparison to estrogen levels. If that is true, then my progesterone levels in the luteal phase should be 400, since my estrogen levels are 20. The fact that my progesterone levels are 700 signifies a huge imbalance...which I guess is the reason for the extreme moods during this time...

TJ

It can be so frustrating ! I feel so much better and all my depression is gone within 2 weeks of reducing my progesterone. My Doc and pharmacist said that if I still have periods you do not ned to have any estrogen. I still have a period every month . It is the huge fluctations of estrogen and progesterone dropping if we don't ovulate that cause the craziness ! I have found saliva testing to be the most accurate for me. I have tried both Blood and saliva and have achieved better balance through saliva by far.
If you take any estrogen and are still having periods that can cause all kinds of problems. Too much progesterone can be a problem too. I would definately reduce your dose but if you stop taking it cold turkey you will throw yourself into even worse hormonal fluctuations. Most women do not know that if you don;t do it gradually over about 3 weeks time with a decrease you will make yourself miserable. If they reduce mine they have me do it 10 mg every two weeks . Go slow if you play with dosing. I found this out through personal experience. I was crying everyday and miserable and now all the depression is gone and my energy is back. I will pray you find the perfect dose and combination you need.


Wendy

After I looked at your saliva numbers being 700 progesterone I would definately back down your progesterone dose slowly to get it below 500 . You should see the depression get better first. How much do you take each day , I mean milligrams ? If you take for example 100 mg daily I would slowly decrease it to 70 ( 30mg am 40mg pm). Do not reduce it by more than 10 mg every 2 weeks or your body could be shocked by it. This is just my suggestion based on how the experts who treat me do it . It works for me. After you feel better retest your saliva to see how far it dropped. You can do it for $35 per test for one hormone checked. That is what it cost me through ZRT. I check progesterone every month and estrogen and testosterone atleast every 3 months.

Wendy

Wendy, those were my levels without supplementation before I started anything! I'm not sure why my level of progesterone was so high, I'm still trying to figure that out. I hadn't used progesterone cream for two years. The high numbers were in the luteal phase, I need to see what they are in the follicular phase. I did use an online lab for the saliva tests. You would think that with all that progesterone in my body I would be calm...


TJ

Now there's a real mystery ! Maybe you ovulated the month you tested and it shot up ? Hard to tell. If I question test results I always retest. I do know that if your progesterone is a lot higher than your Estrogen it can blunt or block the affect of the estrogen and make you feel bad. The balance between the two is important. Not all online labs are the same in quality. ZRT is the leader in it and one of if not the first. I hope you find out what is going on and unravel this mystery . Hang in there !


wendy

I'm wondering about the ovulation thing as well. Called a doctor today, OB/GYN and she was NO HELP! I also read where adrenal tumors and some other kind of tumor can cause high progesterone, but at this point I'm not sure whether to believe the saliva test or not! According to the doctor, this is why she doesn't do testing at all, because they are all unreliable at this stage...during peri...and she is too busy for all of that!


TJ

What a horrible thing to tell a patient ! I have successfullu used saliva testing for 2 years with reliability. My doctor read the report and we decide together what to do alng with my pharmacist who has help thousands of women including his wife who is 47. I will send you a personal message in a minute.

wendy

I am doing oil caps every day non stop at the recommendation of my Doctor. I'm curious why he and the pharmacy would give me 150mg if I could do okay on a lot less. Will ask this. On my fourth night, the first night I had a bit of a racing heart that continued into Saturday. Sunday I felt pretty good a little sleepy in the late afternoon. Today a bit of a dull headache and a little fatigued, obviously it doesn't mean its the P doing it but will monitor and journal my symptoms.

I would journal so you can remember what happened, I do that when trying new things! Also, I have a 100 mg sublingual and I only take 1/2 of that...I was a little sleepy on it so I backed up on the dose...was supposed to take that twice a day... Right now I'm only taking the 50 mg once a day until I see if I notice a difference...my libido seems to be trying to come back as well!!!

TJ

Unfortunately a lot of docs think the more progesterone the better. Anytime you add a hormone or change the dose it has to be done very slowly or you cause your symptoms to either come back or get worse. The hardest thing is being patient enough to let it down regulate and allow your body to get used to it. I use the compounded cream so I can do custom dosing. I push it out of a small syringe and can break my dose down into increments. I have been able to lose weight again and feel so much better once I backed my dose down to 25 mg AM dose and 40 MG bedtime dose. It stays in the body evenly that way. I take 1.0 mg of testosterone cream in the morning only.

I will keep you posted as to how I feel as the month goes by.


Wendy

I am curious why he gave me the oil caps, honestly would prefer something I can tweak on my own. I mean I really don't want to toss out a $65 bottle of pills if it is to much P. Well the positive in all of this is I have someone that is at least interested in helping me, and who has actually done a test on my hormones! I will try not to complain to much at least I am on the right track. I have been sleeping well, today a bit tired again so thinking it has to be the P causing that. The only other things I am doing is a multi vitamin, vitamin D, Omega-3, cal/mag and the b-12 injection. Can't see those causing me to feel tired by mid afternoon. All in all though I have to admit I am already feeling better over all.

All the things you are taking through vitamins would not make you tired. Those are all good things to take. I take all those as well. If you are on too much progesterone it will make you tired and can lead to depression. The good thing is that when it is reduced to the right amount you need all those symptoms will lift like a cloud disappearing. There is hope. Keep seeking answers and never give up.


Bless You

Wendy

So happy to hear that you are feeling better Dav!!! That is really terrific! It sounds like your dose may just need tweaking, and if I've learned anything it is that TWEAKING the dose is important for many of us! I'm tweaking all over the place!


TJ

Jujutsu,
So glad to hear that you felt so much better once hormones were given in correct amount. That really give me hope that this depression can lift when the right amount of hormones are prescribed. Right now I am on 200mg of Progesterone daily. I actually like progesterone because it calms me, but it seems that too much,from what you say can make you more depressed. I am getting all of this checked out by a new Dr. in March. By the way, last time I had my hormones checked my progesterone was still a bit low. I really don't understand all of this.

I think my first phone consultation is next week, will see at that time if I am still getting these laggy afternoons. I'm excited and hopeful that this entire month I will feel good and that will continue. I don't mind tweaking and understand it is necessary through this but a wonder cure is always nice to hope for lol.

Do you gals use tablets or liquids for your supplements? I went ahead while at his office and got a good multi and d vitamin but both are capsules and come in two month supplies. I was already doing the liquid mag/calcium supplement, hate the taste but hear it works better.

Also are you having to take your P at night? I was told to take mine right before bed that it would help me sleep. What is the reasoning behind this? I feel like if I take it at a different time it might sort out that afternoon sluggishness. Meh will ask him all of this next week too, just curious why I have to take it at bedtime.

Dav I take the sublinguals for progesterone and estradiol but am going to give the cream a try. I take the progesterone during the day because it calms me down... The only thing I take at bedtime is calcium/mag. All of my other supplements are tablets except for Kelp which is a liquid form. I'll probably be switching to liquid forms as the other supplements run out, I too think they are best.

TJ

I know this may be a bit late since the last post was in Feb but I was wondering how folks were doing with the "tweaking?" Also, just wanted to add that according to the lab papework I received from my saliva testing the Pg/E2 ratio should be somewhere around 200:1 - 300:1 not 20:1 to 30:1. Can anyone confirm this?

Starting the p cream tonight on day 5 of cycle and I am to take it till day 26, come off and start back up on day 5. My cream is 50 mg/g of P with a VERY LOW administration of 0.1 ml at night at bed time. Working myself up to 0.2 ml on day 14. I know that sounds crazy low but I have shown sensitivity with the hormones meaning too much too soon causes terrible issues and more bad effects.

I am totally in agreement with taking a low doses and working up to a supplemental dose not a pharmaceutical level of dosing. What I mean is that we are attempting to "support" our bodies and the synthetic pharmeceutical doses do not allow for much in the way of "tweaking". I love the fact that the cream can be formulated to your specific need at a compounding pharmacy and then can be administered via a level that you and your healthcare provider believe is appropriate. Very difficult to do that with a pill in very small increments but it can be done when custom formulations are performed. My conventional Dr wanted me taking 5, 10 then15 mg of norithendrone acetate (Aygestin) UGH... when I frankly could not handle 1.5 mg in a BCP (which also had 30 mcg of more estrogen, please where is the balance here!!).

I am also providing support to my thyroid and adrenals to see if that helps normalize things a bit!


Best Wishes

wendy, I am probably one of the oldest here and still struggling....I am interested in what your mother is taking...I am presently taking nothing....it has been 15 years of trial and error...some of the times I got it right and felt ok....now I am back to see what I can/should do at this stage....
I started again with a pump of estrogel...it made me sick...so I cut back to a tear drop...and have been doing ok with a few drops each day....for two months...then I took a prometrium round ball the other night 100 mg the other night..it made me very sick...so obviously way too much...

please tell me about the progesterone cream your mother takes....dr lee offers cream here, is that the same thing?

I am seeing a new doctor next week and will ask for a cream progesterone...but if this doc does not deal in bioident, she will only be able to prescribe the capsules which cannot be divided....

I am close to sixty and having terrible night sweats for two years....anxiety is moderate...