I know this has been debated and argued for centuries. So I've got really nothing new to add. So why start a new post? Hopefully to change the timbre of the posts on the men's board.

One day I was talking with my wife, during the deepest and darkest recesses of peri, about sex. She just didn't understand why I seemed "obsessed" with the fact that we didn't have sex as much as we used to. She said a relationship matured and grew and with time sex was less frequent.

Hummm...hard to argue. I had to think about that.

So I did.

Then one week I watched my wife. Every night she'd have a piece of chocolate. Not a lot, just a small piece. But it was indeed every night.

Hummm...

The next week I watched my wife's chocolate consumption. Indeed every night she had a piece. We have a candy bowl with various nice chocolates in it. I too will have some.

So I took the chocolate bowl and hid it. (oh boy I can just see some of your faces...how dare I!)

She asked me where the chocolate was. I said, why do you need it? She said she didn't need it, but she wanted it.

Hummm...

I returned the chocolate bowl and left it at that.

But does this sound familiar?

Sex is a joy, a bonding, a connection, and a release. As a man it is as much a part of my life as breathing, eating, and shaving. Although I can do all three of those by myself. The true union with another person is special and unique. Yeah, I can hear the chuckles about being able to have sex by myself, but it's not the same and you all know it.

You may not feel like it, you may indeed not be willing, indeed not be able, but it is unfair to belittle a man because it is important to him. Think chocolate. Imagine life without chocolate...ever...it's not as good is it?

Anyway, there is a hole in your spouse's life without that deep connection with you and fulfillment of a need in him. If you can't, he'll ultimately understand, but don't make him feel badly because it's important to him.

By the way, I love this site and my friends here. Recently I've gotten so much support, it's been wonderful. I hope we can have some good discussion about this subject. One that probably breaks more marriages around this time of life than anything else. How do we educate both men and women about this and make it easier for spouses to make it through this tough time? While it is touchy, hopefully we can have a discussion that is meaningful and opens up dialogue that might be useful for both sexes to express their feelings with their spouses.

Cheers!

I'm not at all sure I understand your point or analogy....

me either Confusing.

Well, well young man. I hope you are wearing an industrial strength flack jacket for this one! Have you got a death wish or something? Only joking.....................
I do think that this is an interesting area for discussion but it is fraught with difficulty.
I can only speak from my own experience. So here goes. I have been with my husband for 33 years. I am very lucky, sex life has always been awesome. My husband always used to joke that it was because he was some sort of superstar and of course I had to ground him slightly by saying that his success only stemmed from the fact that I was a world and olympic champion. During my thirties and forties sex was a daily occurrence and I have been known to wake up in the middle of the night and suggest naughty things!
Then things started to change. The love and deep empathy I have nurtured for a lifetime were still there but I noticed that I could become horribly, angry and irritated with hubby for fairly irrational reasons. Those waves of twisted anger were not conducive to a great sex life and then the migraines started. I often think that the awful suffering I went through at that stage was because of my particular hormonal profile. Yeah, I had, had a lifetime of great sex but oh boy was I suffering for it now! The migraines had a good go at destroying my life from the age of 38 to 51 when I finally entered menopause. My sex life was so good that I stumbled on, constantly trying to pick up the pieces until about 49 years old. By this stage the hormonal profile had robbed me of my immense orgasm which had metamorphosed from an earth moving experience to all the power of a polite sneeze. I have always wanted to give my hubby pleasure so I just had to fake things a bit. I took the view that I was loosing a very precious part of my life but why should hubby suffer too. However it wasn't too long before the cracks started to show. I want to draw attention here as to how sad I felt inside. I was in no way wanting to take my husbands daily chocolate away but things were changing for me and I desperately needed deep understanding from my partner. I am very lucky and hubby pulled back and was able to empathise with my position completely. This gave me the space to readjust to the new world that I was entering. It also gave me reason to love him even more deeply.
At this stage any woman will tell you that the changes in hormones cause them to look and feel dire in a physical sense. I found it almost impossible to look in the mirror. Who was that ulgy old woman staring back at me? Where was that glossy dark mane and those beguiling green eyes. I just felt ugly and that is not conducive to seducing your partner.
At menopause itself I suffered severe fatigue and to be frank with you, sex just became rather a bore that required way too much energy. My vagina was dry and sex felt just plain uncomfortable! My husband and I kept the communication channels open and were able to inject humour into our difficulties. I was always aware that he wanted his piece of chocolate and if an opportunity presented itself,(which was not very often) I made every effort to grab the moment. My husband's strength was his patience and understanding. If he had been nasty or aggresssive over the situation, I would have slammed the door firmly in his face, just to protect myself. The chances are that, that door would have remained closed forever.
The good news is that I am coming throught the transition well. The migraines have gone, the fatigue is no longer a problem and I feel a little better about my own appearance.
The sex life is slowly returning and I think that it will settle at a lower but nonetheless, loving and rewarding level.

I hope that this helps the gentlemen here to understand why their partners might appear to be witholding the 'chocolate.' If they fail to understand the underlying reasons and find it impossible to act with great patience, they stand the chance of loosing the chocolate forever.


XIII

Indeed. I think that is exactly what men need to hear. Thanks for sharing that. A much more honest expression than I actually had anticipated. I don't have much to add at the moment, except it is much the same as the experience my wife and I had as we both got to our late 40s. Neither one of us knew what was happening until my wife's doctor suggested perimenopause. What the heck was that? I thought. It took me another two years to find this site and all the information it has.

Still, regardless of all that information, it's the honest sharing like this that's gotten me through the worst of it.

Wow XIII! What a great post!!! PERFECT!!

Reg Guy... to compare wanting sex to wanting cholcolate is just further evidence to me that you haven't a clue. Sorry... not trying to be insulting... but seriously... after reading your post, my mouth was just hanging open in disbelief!!

XIII GREAT POST!
Oh I know Reg point very well, I hear it about once a week!
My husband has built a wall around himself, punishing me by rude remarks & withholding his companionship when I need him the most!

I have been a good & faithful wife for 33 years, which consist of a great sex life.
In no fault of my own did I choose for my sex desire to die! Or did I pick to have horrid night sweats or Migraines OR bleeding so heavy I had to be rush to the ER. So why shall I be punish by a husband whining because he doesn’t get sex enough? Is marriage not supposed to be through good and bad times?
Well this is a bad time in my life!
I deserve more respect than that!
I could do pity sex but WHY when my heart isn’t it?
I would feel resentment> is that what men want?
I have been very honest with him on how I feel.
Recently I had enough and was very proud of myself when I just said NO> H*ll NO> LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!

i want to have cake and sex. The chocolate eating thing is what hormones do to us i don;t think your wife is trying to replace it with sex. As for me i am on a antidepressant and thats what it does to me i want sweets an chocolates.

Heeeeeeee right now chocolate cake is better then sex!

Sorry, I was trying to be funny and change the subject. Apparently neither was appreciated.

ABSOLUTELY AWESOME POST MY FRIEND!!! I APPLAUD YOU!!

I'd just like to say that if there's another life, i hope that some of the men who don't understand whats going on with us come back as women! then they'd absolutely understand where we're coming from!

Hey Reg, you might have hit a nerve as it sounds like some husbands aren't as understanding or kindly worded as you.

Mine is and I cannot tell you how badly I feel that I do not have a consistent enough mood to initiate intimacy more often. It is true, the physical pleasure has changed a great deal which was quite a surprise to me. But I still very much cherish the closeness so I accept it is different for me now and I explained to hubby as well. I am sure this is all difficult for him to navigate as I'm ok one hour and absolutely panicked the next.

It sounds like you are at least navigating this with your wife and keeping the communication open is the most important thing I think. Thanks to XII's post it sounds like we'll all get out of this alive!

XIII - thank you for your posting - it helps us men see some of the problems with our sex lives at this point in our lives.

I'm new to this but had a few thoughts on this subject.

About a year ago I took a seminar and read a book on marriage that talked about the hormone oxytocin and its role in attachment and bonding. They said that this hormone in women is released very easily (it helps after birth for bonding with the baby). For women it is released from breastfeeding, eye contact, talking, intimate touching, full body embracing and orgasm. This is one reason why women have closer relationships with other women - they better at all of these for the most part. Men are not into talking and eye contact with each other.

In men it is not so easily released. Typically, in men, it is only released during full body embrace and orgasm, which normally happen during sex. It's hard for men because they are not having sex so they are not feeling connected to their wives and that makes them feel inadequate and shamed (there is a whole discussion about fear for women and shame for men but that is for another topic). The typical reaction to shame and inadequate feelings is anger; displayed through yelling, making the woman feel bad or guilty, withdrawing, etc. It starts a vicious cycle - the wife is not interested in sex, the man feels disconnected, gets mad and withdraws, the women feels more isolated and is even less interested in sex and the man feels even more disconnected and it all goes around again until something gives. All the while there is anger and resentment building on both sides, which is never good for a relationship.

One of the suggestions that was given was the 6 times 6 hugs per day. You and your spouse embrace in a full body hug for six seconds (don't count out loud ). You do this six times a day for a total of 36 seconds. It is supposed to help with the release of the oxytocin and make you feel more connected. It worked wonders for my relationship - while I kept it up. And the hugs typically lasted far more than 6 seconds - it was nice. The problem is that 36 seconds a day sounds easy but it is hard to keep up on.

I also read an article on the web about how, among other things, oxytocin levels in women decrease during this time in their life. Since oxytocin stimulates attachment and bonding this could explain why some women feel more disconnected. Oxytocin is also supposed to be involved in triggering orgasms, which may explain some of why orgasms are more difficult.

The book I read also had a section called Twenty Reasons to Have Sex When You Don't Feel Like It. Unfortunately, it did not discuss perimenopause or menopause, which is a bit disappointing.

XIII - it is good that you have a husband that could understand you and not feel disconnected. It's good that you were able to communicate. You are very lucky.

I'm not an expert but these are just a few thoughts on what I've learned.

Hello RegGuy, kf1 and others,

As per my other post (which seemed to get a little off-track lately), my wife and I have become somewhat disconnected during this time in our lives, and I have first-hand experience with the "vicious cycle" as kf1 states .

This site, and the comments from both men and women, have been great and have helped me to understand what is going on. I have learned that it is very important for men not to take the disconnection / distance personally, but remain strong, supportive and caring.

Interesting info re oxytocin - perhaps I will try the 6 hugs @ 6 seconds idea

Hi,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge about oxytocin with us. I do feel that it has a role to play in all this. Interestingly I found that at menopause my ability to tolerate long, demonstrative cuddles has been curtailed somewhat. I used to be very happy cuddling for large parts of the night and now I seem to want to squirm out of hubby's grasp and retreat to the far side of the bed. I know that some interesting work has been done by academic psychologists who have cottoned on to the fact that oxytocin has a possible role in the ability of women to fend off serious depressive episodes. All interesting stuff!


Cheers,

XIII

Let me step out on a limb here if I may.

You will NOT die without sex!!

You WILL die without chocolate!!!

hehehe

Hehe! Totally agree. Truer words were never spoken.

If I might add.........you may "feel" as though you will die, but trust me, you won't!!

Encouraging huh??

hehehe

I dunno, I thought it was pretty funny.

But ya might as well give up the ghost if you can't have em both, huh??

Hi - well to be perfectly honest, I am just tired of sex...I used to love it but I have lost interest in it. Plain and simple. If I felt better about myself perhaps I would want it more...can't say for sure though. I think for me, part of the problem is hubby doesn't love kissing. I love that alot and I think it stimulates women...men - well alot of men don't really understand that.

Sincerely,
Suz

NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING is as important as chocolate. Deal with it.

Well, if I really have to say it...........they are pushing very hard for first place!!

What are we talking about??

Oh yea, now I remember!!!!

Hey, why can't they go hand in hand??

Suz,
Your last point hits the nail on the head: "a lot of men don't really understand".
I think men are more interested in "getting to the point". They are less interested in the journey than are women. Men are ready at the drop of a hat (or dress or whatever) while women are more interested in the other aspects like kissing - that's part of the intimate touching that is supposed to release the oxytocin for women but not for men. Men have to pay attention to what their wives want in and out of bed. I think that most men really do not understand that if they put forth some more effort and did what their wife enjoyed they might just have sex more often. Guys - think about that.

Is part of your lack of interest due to your husband's lack of interest in doing the things that stimulate you? I've read that low desire people (desire refers to hormone levels, which might be part of the problem ) need to be very stimulated in order to even feel the desire to have sex. You may not be interested until you're really stimulated but your husband is not doing the things he needs to get you really stimulated.

Good luck and I hope your husband opens up so you can communicate with him and let him know your needs so that he can meet them (and then you might have more interest in meeting his).

kf1

In my first post I referenced the "Twenty Reasons to Have Sex When You Don’t Feel Like It". I'm not sure if it is appropriate but here is the list:

http://libido-pill.com/blog/E9DC9B1A-EEF5-...4E7562C70C.html

I'm not advertising the book or anything like that but I thought the list made some good points. The book was really good though. Please keep in mind that there is a lot more to this than just a list of reasons why you should have sex and it does not take into account the effects of perimenopause and menopause. I just found it to be interesting. Some of the health benefits were particularly interesting.

And men, please do not use this list inappropriately by throwing it in your wife's face and saying "See they agree we should have sex, let's go!!!". That may be a bit of a turn off. Pay attention to what Suz said above and find out what your wife wants and give it to her. If she wants the bedroom filled with candles and rose petals spread out on the bed get out a lighter and go to the florist. If she wants to spend 10 minutes doing the little things that turn her on, like kissing, spend 20 minutes. Compliment her throughout the day, not just at bedtime. She may listen to your compliments when they do not sound like they are a means to getting sex.

Now if I could just follow my own advice...

In other words: Men are microwave ovens and women are crock pots.

LOL! Too clever!

Reg guy you are dead on!!! Believe it or not this is coming from a WOMAN! My husband is just like you! High sex drive and gets none....BUT now I finally understand how he feels thanks to you. If your post made ONE person understand how the man feels it was me and for that I THANK YOU! Sex is not important to me in my life right now but is something my husband craves...not for the "sex" as much as the physical closeness. He says we become one and it is a bond that makes us "whole". We are off in our own little world and no one else matters (wow, maybe I DO miss it after all!) I LOVE the analogy you used and you hit it right on the head. Kudos to you my friend, I think I will go kiss my hubby good morning today! Have a WONDERFUL Christmas!

You know, if it helped one person it's been worth the abuse I've taken since posting this originally.

I must be having PMS today cause I am feeling very strongly compelled to ask you Reg guy, "Where do you see anyone on here abusing you??"

I will admit I have not read the responses word for word as you may have, but from what I remember, we did nothing more than state our opinions and most of what I read was in jest, at least from my standpoint.

We meno ladies have enough stress in our lives without asking for more. Of course there may be some here who enjoy stress, but I would venture to say NOT!!!

Sorry if you were offended..........and I mean that sincerely, but I would really like to know who,where,in what way, were you abused.

It's another post. Sorry to confuse. I cross posted.

I completely understand where RegGuy is coming from. I feel strongly that I should do all that I can to make my husband feel loved and wanted. It is not a good feeling to want something from your spouse and get turned down especially sex. It's not like you can go somewhere else to find it. Well maybe you can, but why should you have to when you have it at home?

If I turned my husband down repeatedly, and he strayed because he wanted his needs fulfilled than I have no one to blame but myself. I mean, you don't need an erection to satisfy his needs so what's the problem? I love backrubs. I feel that it is a form of intimacy between me and my husband. If I craved a backrub, and he repeatedly told me he didn't feel like it, then I would feel cheated. I would also become very frustrated.

If we as women understand that men love sex than why would we deny them just because we didn't feel like doing it? I could see if he wanted it everyday and maybe it caused you great pain, but a couple of times a week just to keep him happy is not too much to ask. I myself went through a loss of intimacy a few years ago and didn't want to have sex and the relationship I was in at the time went downhill.

I'm not trying to step on toes, but just voicing my opinion. Someday, your man may lose the ability to have an erection and you may get your libido back. Do you think he would do whatever he could to satisfy you even knowing he couldn't perform? I know my husband would.

I admire ANY man who has the courage to come to a "woman oriented place" (especially considering the issues) and spill his guts. You apparently love and value you wife and would simply like to be able to find a way of expressing it....for most men it's sex (I'm ducking here because I am sure I will have things thrown at me....hmmm Bev....he he) I am guessing for you it goes much much deeper than sex. It is a connection of the SOUL. You should be welcomed here with open arms and all the love and comfort the women on this site get. I for one care for you as we all should. Take care my friend and never give up hope!

I know what you mean...for me it would be footrubs! A REALLY good footrub from my husband is almost as good as sex and leaves me wanting a cigarette and I don't even smoke!

Actually having sex with the same person often leads men to stray. Men are more likely to be drawn to the thrill of having sex with someone new. It’s called the Coolidge Effect.

I’m sure Reg-Guy is just feeling neglected and would never plan to cheat on his wife to fill his own selfish needs.

Infidelity is one of the most painful experiences anyone can have in their life!

Reg-guy If you were found to have a serious illness let’s say (cancer) and was going through treatment that killed your sex drive and your wife wasn’t understanding how would that make you feel?

Would you not want her to wait >to hang on to your wonderful marriage until you recovered?

Sex should be there to be enjoyed by a couple who trust and love each other. Why should a woman have sex with her husband/partner just to keep him happy? What about the feelings of the woman who is going through a very difficult peri/menopause? A woman who is dealing with a constant barrage of symptoms needs support from her husband and not continually harassed for sex. What men need to understand is that perimenopause is a life changing event for a woman - we are going through biochemical changes that we have no control over. It causes confusion and fear in a woman. We lose who we are. Ultimately, as women, we need all the support we can get to help us through the unpredictability of hormone upheaval and the last thing some of us need is sex. Mariage is for better or worse and in sickness and health - To take a worse case scenario, what if your partner had an injury that left/her paralysed from the waste down? Are you going to sneak of for a bit of sex on the side? Sounds cheap and shallow doesn't it? If a woman feels that she has to have sex with her husband/partner to prevent him from having sex with someone else, then in my opinion, you are married to the wrong man. That is not love and it certainly isn't committment. And how can anyone equate sex with cholcolate? The mind really boggles.

RegGuy - I dont want to offend you and you are free to come here for support and help when you need it -- we all have that right - but how could you be so manipulative as to hide your wifes chocolates just to make a point?

Here is an article that I posted some weeks ago -- I dont know if any of you have read it, but it just might help to understand a womans perspective - It also mentions oxytocin somewhere --

Merry Christmas to you Patrice and to all.


(((hugs)))

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...-menopause.html

I was trying to use humor, it didn't work, I appologized already...However, there is ONE sentence in my post that should be taken seriously:

Also, if you ACTUALLY READ what I wrote, I made NO point at all. I said,

There are things that make a marriage, sex is one of them. I admire those women who look at it that way and support their husband's needs. Those husbands are probably also supporting them with their needs that are specific to this time of their life. The drive to reproduce doesn't just stop in a man, it dwindles (sometimes gets stomped into the ground I suppose) so this time in a woman's life is also difficult for the man in her life. I was trying to use humor to make a point. Some were offended, some found it funny, others found it useful. I guess that's success.

Lastly, I'm not trying to be a jerk, not trying to anger anyone here, certainly not. I actually thought this would be a way to look at sex at a different angle. Fortunately some have. Thanks to those and I'm sorry to the others if I might have offended. In a sitcom this guy's wife wasn't reacting to what he said, he then said, "Look, if what I said could be taken two ways, it's the way that doesn't make you angry that I meant it." --me too! Men by-and-large are not as good at articulating their thoughts and feelings as women are. Some of us truly try. I also did not torment my wife with "demands" for sex, I let her take the lead. So don't jump to that conclusion either. While I haven't been some "ideal partner" during this time, I did pretty well.

Sorry, I disagree here. You would have your husband to blame for not communicating that his needs were not being filled, thereby giving you chance to do something about it, should you choose to do so.



Too true! And having to recover from that at the same time as going through this meno-madness is even worse. Been there, done that - still wearing the t-shirt.

Is asking not an expression of need or desire?

Is saying no not a refusal to satisfy that desire or need?

Is having that happen repeatedly not a good reason to lose hope it will change?

While I won't deny that there are probably many women who get feeling so badly that sex is really not an option. But at that point it needs to be discussed and explained. I understood, but it was still very difficult to live through those years...these years, and not feel sad at what was lost in my marriage.

In trying to be honest it helps, not saying anything can be quite hurtful. My wife went from a willing and ardent lover to a women who began to cringe from my touch. Fortunately she went to a doctor who was willing to explain the sensations and changes to her and give her explainations and guidance through the process. As such she was able to explain things to me.

It became my goal to have an intact marriage and relationship when this phase of her life was over. As such I did (and still do) all I could. Part of that was communicating, part was staying away, part was being a good friend. For her part, she participated with me and we had sex on a regular, albeit infrequent, basis. However I knew when and I knew it would happen. Therefore I set my expectations accordingly. I think some women on this board have also expressed a "date night" concept where "He knows the outcome." It's better that way and better than incriminations, anger, frustration and hard feelings.

I have to add here that it is NOT always the man who wants more sex than the woman. Sometimes it is the other way around. In my first marriage, my husband never (and I mean absolutely, positively, N-E-V-E-R) initiated sex with me. I had to always bring it up, and in the beginning of our marriage, I'd say he rejected me about 50% of the time. As time progressed, the rejections became more frequent, to the point where he pretty much told me that he hated sex (he said it was nothing more than "animal foolishness.") It was then that I knew I could not stay married to him. He is now remarried and he and his new wife have separate bedrooms, so what does that tell you? It tells me that she is probably fine with having zero sex. And their marriage feels normal for them. The problem arises when there is a big disparity in sex drives, and let me tell you, being rejected by your husband was one of the most emotionally painful things I have ever endured. It wasn't that he couldn't have sex...he just didn't want to. Someone here brought up the example of a serious illness, or accident, that might render one partner incapable of actually performing. I don't think that would matter...sex is more than just--well, you know, intercourse. There is the intimacy, the vulnerability, the talking, the sharing, the touching. I think the biggest sex organ we have is our brain. The act of intercourse is a mechanical thing, for lack of a better word. Caring about my partner's desires and wishes can be expressed in a number of different ways...anyways, just my 2 cents...

I totally agree. Maybe I said it in a way that some disagreed with, but my point was that if sex is that important to your husband or maybe I should say spouse, then why not just go with it? Like I said...if it is just a couple of times a week and it makes him/her happy then I will do it. There are exceptions to everything. Let me add that this is just my opinion, but I feel that if you continue to say no to sex than you are taking something away from marriage that breeds intimacy which I feel is very important in any relationship.

Reg guy....my husband wanted me to post (odd for him...)....and thank you. He has been bouncing around the house the last two days with the cutest comments about wanting his piece of "german chocolate" (yes, I'm german). I do not know HOW such a post could impact my awareness as to what my husband was feeling but because of you we are all the better for it! It becomes very easy in the midst of all our menopausal issues to forget about the ones who really love us and that they have needs and desires also. I for one during the bad times tend to shut out all people, sadly that tends to include my husband. I simply shut down. I found out yesterday that this is incredibly painful for my husband to bear. Like all we have our ups and downs. We've comptemplated divorce twice in the last year due to our inability to communicate during this whole thing but fortunately we are working things out. I know our marriage is stronger than this meno thing and we hopefully will weather it without too much destruction. The people on this site that supported you, I applaud. Some, sadly simply do not understand. Take the good out of these posts and leave the rest. I wish you and your wife the most Merry of Christmas's.

This is what I meant.
This is what I hoped for.
This is the BEST Christmas gift of all.

Thanks!

Ok, here goes. I feel the same way you do, except I am a woman. My husband always reaches for his plate instead of me. Seems like he is always too tired or wants to eat something instead. So, I can see how you feel. I just wonder if any other woman has that problem except me. I am 55 and still like sex and miss the closeness we once had, but figure he is getting older and that is just normal. He dosen't take any meds for anything, so I always wonder what the problem is, or if he is just over worked and tired. But I love him anyway, just miss the times we had together.

Somehow I missed this. I am not feeling neglected, nor would I cheat on my wife. That was and is not an option. Rather, I was trying to open up a discussion that focused a bit on the importance of sex and how differently each of us looks at it and respond to it.

I would imagine my wife would walk away if I was seriously ill for a suffiently long enough time. I am more fully into our marriage than my wife is. That has been proven through our years together. Although it is sad, it is also true. I truly do not believe she would stand by my side if I was disabled for a sufficiently long period of time.

There are different types of infidelity, sex is just one of them. Loss of faith in you by the other is equally if not more painful. I know, I've experienced both.

I have a funny feeling this goes WAY deeper than a sex issue...am I right? Forgive me if I am being too intrusive but, for what it's worth, I can't even hear your voice and I am hearing pain. To believe that a spouse would not stand by you in your greatest time of need would be heartbreaking. Sorry, I don't mean to drag this post and topic out so long but both my husband and I seem to have taken you under our "wings" so to speak. Weird, I know but we don't like people hurting. If you want support from either my husband or I...you've got it. We just wanted you to know we care. Have a good day my friend.

RegGuy: I agree with ladybugs...if you honestly feel that your wife would abandon you if you were seriously ill, then there are deeper issues going on than just sex. I feel badly for you...don't know what else I can say, but I can also sense the hurt in your writing.