Not sure where to post this topic. I'm wondering if anyone has tried the OTC thyroid supplements. My endocrinologist said my thyroid is fine but I am still sure it's not. He won't give me any hormone to even try and see if my symptoms go away. He said to balance my E/P/T and to take 25mg DHEA and come back in 3 months. He said my thyroid is slightly enlarged and I have a few complex cysts (millimeters and nothing to worry about he says) and some nodules, but no reason for treatment. So now I'm on to the OTC thyroid supplements. I bought one today but haven't taken it as yet. I'm so tired of swallowing all these vitamins, minerals, oils, etc. But I would love to get some energy; stop feeling so cold; stop having daily aches and pains; stop feeling blah; have my hair thicken up and my skin to stop flaking. I've been using the bios now for 4 months and I still have these same symptoms. The only change I noticed since starting the bios is my rages are gone and I sleep better, but that is it.
Yesterday I started to add a 1/2 dose of Estrogel mid day to the bi-est I take in the a.m. b/c I'm not sure what else to do to help with the symptoms above.
So now on to a thyroid supplement. Anyone try one? Comments appreciated.
Colleen
Full Version: Thyroid Supplements
Corky,
Could you post the thyroid results along with the ranges? I could tell you how it looks.
I am hypothyroid with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which is becoming very common. Unfortunately many women who are hypoT are being missed because the right tests aren't being done and the one that usually is done (TSH) is often not interpreted according to the new guidelines. Did they test for antibodies to see if you have hashi's?
With an enlarged thyroid and cysts, obviously your thyroid is not normal. I would not settle for what this doc says, but would try to find a thyroid-literate doc who will properly test and treat you. I haven't found too many people that have had real thyroid problems who have had any success with the OTC stuff.
Your symptoms are classic hypothyroid, and before the TSH test docs diagnosed by symptoms and a trial of thyroid meds. Now they seem to have no clinical assessment skills and can see nothing but the TSH while ignoring everything else. The funny thing is that TSH is a pituitary hormone, it is not a measure of the actual thyroid hormones.
Could you post the thyroid results along with the ranges? I could tell you how it looks.
I am hypothyroid with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which is becoming very common. Unfortunately many women who are hypoT are being missed because the right tests aren't being done and the one that usually is done (TSH) is often not interpreted according to the new guidelines. Did they test for antibodies to see if you have hashi's?
With an enlarged thyroid and cysts, obviously your thyroid is not normal. I would not settle for what this doc says, but would try to find a thyroid-literate doc who will properly test and treat you. I haven't found too many people that have had real thyroid problems who have had any success with the OTC stuff.
Your symptoms are classic hypothyroid, and before the TSH test docs diagnosed by symptoms and a trial of thyroid meds. Now they seem to have no clinical assessment skills and can see nothing but the TSH while ignoring everything else. The funny thing is that TSH is a pituitary hormone, it is not a measure of the actual thyroid hormones.
Yes Sariah you are absolutely right.
I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's in 2006 although i had it for a couple years before that. The one test that did it was the one for autoimmune antibodies (thyroglobulin antibodies) It was sky-high while my other numbers (TSH, T3 and T4) were in normal range.
Proper tests for thyroid disease needs to be included in physicals and not just TSH.
I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's in 2006 although i had it for a couple years before that. The one test that did it was the one for autoimmune antibodies (thyroglobulin antibodies) It was sky-high while my other numbers (TSH, T3 and T4) were in normal range.
Proper tests for thyroid disease needs to be included in physicals and not just TSH.
Well my latest test they didn't give me a copy. I requested the blood report and will get it Monday. This doctor I think is Indian or Pakistani or something and everyone I know said he was the best. I said to him myself if I have nodules and complex cysts and these symptoms, obviously it's not functioning, but per all his zillion tests, antibodies included, he said I am normal and to just balance my estrogen, progesterone and testosterone and take DHEA, zinc, and selenium. My TSH has risen at 3 different times over two years. Once it was 1.057, then a year later, 1.345, then a few months after that one it was 1.5. He said it is normal for the TSH to go up and down too. I said to him I started to feel worse since my TSH numbers have risen, more pain, less energy, cold, etc. and he said to give hormone with my blood report is unethical and illegal. He said it could make me worse and turn toward hyper and cause heart problems, so to just do like he said and balance my other hormones. When I get the report I'll post the results.
My aunt has a thyroid specialist she uses in Manhattan and maybe I will see if he's in my insurance plan and get his opinion of the test results. In the meantime, is it safe to try one of those thyroid supplements? I'm thinking of trying anything at this point.
Corky,
The TSH does look normal, but until we know the status of the Free T3 and Free T4, we won't know for sure if your thyroid is producing enough of each. That will tell you the real picture. I would like to know the actual antibody numbers, as it could be only slightly elevated which would still indicate hashimoto's. And you can have hashimoto's even without antibodies, discernable by ultrasound. It looks like you had an ultrasound, do you have a copy of the report? The radiologist's interpretation would tell you if it looks like hashi's.
Another thing that could be causing your symptoms is low iron, as measured by serum ferritin. Have you had a recent ferritin level done? Low iron can cause you to feel cold, tired, sluggish, hair falling out.
Did he do testing of your sex hormones? How did those look?
The TSH does look normal, but until we know the status of the Free T3 and Free T4, we won't know for sure if your thyroid is producing enough of each. That will tell you the real picture. I would like to know the actual antibody numbers, as it could be only slightly elevated which would still indicate hashimoto's. And you can have hashimoto's even without antibodies, discernable by ultrasound. It looks like you had an ultrasound, do you have a copy of the report? The radiologist's interpretation would tell you if it looks like hashi's.
Another thing that could be causing your symptoms is low iron, as measured by serum ferritin. Have you had a recent ferritin level done? Low iron can cause you to feel cold, tired, sluggish, hair falling out.
Did he do testing of your sex hormones? How did those look?
corky,
There is a member on here who had thyroid test results always within the "normal ranges" and yet she didn't feel well, had no energy, etc. She also had a phychotic event, which initially had been blamed on menopause. It was finally determined, after 2 years and several doctors, that she had subclinical thyroid deficiency....meaning even though her numbers fell within normal, for HER they were not normal. Thyroid hormone was added, and she has been feeling fantastic. I would not give up on your quest for relieve from your symptoms, or your believe that your thyroid is "off".
You should have experienced more positive results from taking the E/P/T by now, so I agree that there has to be something else going on with you. Hang in there, and don't give up!!
Oh, I don't think it could hurt you to take the OTC thyroid supplement, not sure it will help either!
There is a member on here who had thyroid test results always within the "normal ranges" and yet she didn't feel well, had no energy, etc. She also had a phychotic event, which initially had been blamed on menopause. It was finally determined, after 2 years and several doctors, that she had subclinical thyroid deficiency....meaning even though her numbers fell within normal, for HER they were not normal. Thyroid hormone was added, and she has been feeling fantastic. I would not give up on your quest for relieve from your symptoms, or your believe that your thyroid is "off".
You should have experienced more positive results from taking the E/P/T by now, so I agree that there has to be something else going on with you. Hang in there, and don't give up!!
Oh, I don't think it could hurt you to take the OTC thyroid supplement, not sure it will help either!
QUOTE (Floater @ Dec 5 2008, 11:18 PM) 
corky,
There is a member on here who had thyroid test results always within the "normal ranges" and yet she didn't feel well, had no energy, etc. She also had a phychotic event, which initially had been blamed on menopause. It was finally determined, after 2 years and several doctors, that she had subclinical thyroid deficiency....meaning even though her numbers fell within normal, for HER they were not normal. Thyroid hormone was added, and she has been feeling fantastic. I would not give up on your quest for relieve from your symptoms, or your believe that your thyroid is "off".
You should have experienced more positive results from taking the E/P/T by now, so I agree that there has to be something else going on with you. Hang in there, and don't give up!!
Oh, I don't think it could hurt you to take the OTC thyroid supplement, not sure it will help either!
There is a member on here who had thyroid test results always within the "normal ranges" and yet she didn't feel well, had no energy, etc. She also had a phychotic event, which initially had been blamed on menopause. It was finally determined, after 2 years and several doctors, that she had subclinical thyroid deficiency....meaning even though her numbers fell within normal, for HER they were not normal. Thyroid hormone was added, and she has been feeling fantastic. I would not give up on your quest for relieve from your symptoms, or your believe that your thyroid is "off".
You should have experienced more positive results from taking the E/P/T by now, so I agree that there has to be something else going on with you. Hang in there, and don't give up!!
Oh, I don't think it could hurt you to take the OTC thyroid supplement, not sure it will help either!
Wow this post gives me hope... Thanks! Finding a doctor that treats the patient and not the lab range is a battle!
Hi Sariah:
The radiologist report of the thyroid had no indications of Hashi's and even with the noted cysts, enlargement and nodules they said to follow up in one year. I did have a look at one blood test with the antibodies and it came back as no antibodies or negative, something like that. I had a ferritin test done a year ago and it was normal but I don't think my last report from the endocrinologist included that b/c I mentioned it to him about the iron and I think he said he didn't ask for that but I could have that tested next.
I'm wondering if I should take my prometrium every day at 100mg? I stopped about a week ago and I am not scheduled to start again until next week. I've been reading a lot about how progesterone is very important to thyroid function and I've been taking bi-est estrogen daily now for 4 months and progesterone for 12-14 days per month. When I first started having these symptoms it was because I was skipping cycles (also have just one ovary) and my first blood tests showed my progesterone at .45 and my estradiol at 71. However, the doctor started me on an oral dose of bi-est 1.25, progesterone 50mg, and testosterone 2.5mg right away and I've been changing that a bit to cycling the progesterone b/c the first month I felt very down and weepy on that oral prep.
I read so many conflicting experiences with the progesterone so I'm not sure how to proceed. I was thinking that since I have just the one ovary and I tend to get cysts on that one too and I started skipping cycles that I wasn't producing a corpus luteum and thus no progesterone, so maybe I've been going about this all wrong and I should be using just the progesterone for 14 days a month only?
Also if I get a bleed before I am to start my next round of progesterone, say a day or two before or even on the same day, should I not start the progesterone or stop it and count another 14 days until the bleed stops? Because I think I may just use the progesterone alone with the DHEA 25mg for a month or so and stop the bi-est. If my anger rages return then I know I still need to use that low dose of estradiol and I will go back.
I will get that blood report on Monday and see what is says. I do remember seeing one number at the end of the report when he was holding it and it was ACTH level 9 and it said LO, with the level starting at 10 to something. I asked him and he said that it is normal low and nothing to be concerned about. I looked that up and it said something about cortisol, but I only took a morning blood test not another at night, so I'm not sure what the ACTH is all about but it was low.
I'm still taking my temperature throughout the day. When I wake up before I remove the blankets it's usually 97.8, 97.7 then later in the day it can be about the same, then sometimes it may go to 98.2. I just read an article that said to take the temperature of morning urine for a few days and if it's 97. and lower for a few days then it's subclinical hypo. I may try that starting tomorrow. And I'm looking into another doctor for a second opinion as well. Because I am determined to feel better I've had enough.
Hi Floater:
I know I was reading so many people who felt such energy and relief right away, but I didn't feel much difference at all and I am also using testosterone too. And I take lots of vitamins, minerals and I eat pretty clean too. I did notice that my anger ranges went away. Not to say I'm always a very happy person, and don't get angry, but those break the dishes, yelling in my son's face left when I started the bi-est and testosterone. However, feeling blah, no energy and no interest in the things I used to love still remain and this constant feeling chilled, and achy and tired still linger and so that was why I was thinking it just had to my thyroid. But then I thought maybe I have always been estrogen dominant and I made it worse by adding the bi-est? Maybe my thyroid was already in a lurch from low progesterone (skipped cycles, lost ovary, etc.) and then I added more estrogen and made myself worse. Anyway I'm going for a second opinion with my reports and I may just drop the estrogen for a month. Just now I started a bleed so I think I may not take anything for the next 14 days and just take the Prometrium 200mg for 14 days alone, no estrogen, no testosterone, just the DHEA maybe and even then maybe I'll only take that every other day.
Now I wasn't getting a cycle for the first 4 months when I started taking all the bios then last last month I finally got one and now just got an other one. So maybe the bios are starting to work properly with the cycling bit?? But I think I'm still going to let go of the estrogen for a month just to see.
But I refuse to continue to feel like this. I am trying everything I can. I haven't tried the thyroid supplement yet. I think I will wait now until I do the progesterone only for a bit and see if my symptoms get better. If not and the next doctor says all is normal with thyroid and won't give me anything then I'll start taking the OTC thyroid and see what that does.
I know I was reading so many people who felt such energy and relief right away, but I didn't feel much difference at all and I am also using testosterone too. And I take lots of vitamins, minerals and I eat pretty clean too. I did notice that my anger ranges went away. Not to say I'm always a very happy person, and don't get angry, but those break the dishes, yelling in my son's face left when I started the bi-est and testosterone. However, feeling blah, no energy and no interest in the things I used to love still remain and this constant feeling chilled, and achy and tired still linger and so that was why I was thinking it just had to my thyroid. But then I thought maybe I have always been estrogen dominant and I made it worse by adding the bi-est? Maybe my thyroid was already in a lurch from low progesterone (skipped cycles, lost ovary, etc.) and then I added more estrogen and made myself worse. Anyway I'm going for a second opinion with my reports and I may just drop the estrogen for a month. Just now I started a bleed so I think I may not take anything for the next 14 days and just take the Prometrium 200mg for 14 days alone, no estrogen, no testosterone, just the DHEA maybe and even then maybe I'll only take that every other day.
Now I wasn't getting a cycle for the first 4 months when I started taking all the bios then last last month I finally got one and now just got an other one. So maybe the bios are starting to work properly with the cycling bit?? But I think I'm still going to let go of the estrogen for a month just to see.
But I refuse to continue to feel like this. I am trying everything I can. I haven't tried the thyroid supplement yet. I think I will wait now until I do the progesterone only for a bit and see if my symptoms get better. If not and the next doctor says all is normal with thyroid and won't give me anything then I'll start taking the OTC thyroid and see what that does.
Hi Corky,
The ferritin could have been low normal, which is too low and has been proven to cause symptoms of iron deficiency. So it would be good to have the actual numbers. You want it at 50 or above.
If you are getting your period, then you don't need the P, since you are already producing enough to bring on a period unless you have a luteal phase defect. The point of taking the P if you are taking E is to prevent hyperproliferation of the endometrium and if you have a period once every 2-3 months, then that should be enough. To do that, you would take the P for 10-12 days every 3 months.
The low ACTH should be further pursued. It could indicate a pituitary problem. You need to have your cortisol levels checked along with some other tests to rule that out.
I'm not convinced that temperature-taking is an accurate way to measure hypo. With women, hormone fluctuations, and also adrenal fatigue can cause peaks and valleys in the temp.
You might also be iodine-deficient and it might be helpful to try some iodine, along with selenium, which is necessary in order to convert the T4-->T3. Iodine deficiency can cause nodule and thyroid swelling.
I hope you are able to figure all this out. Obviously something is awry. If you have any questions or want some links to help with your research, let me know.
The ferritin could have been low normal, which is too low and has been proven to cause symptoms of iron deficiency. So it would be good to have the actual numbers. You want it at 50 or above.
If you are getting your period, then you don't need the P, since you are already producing enough to bring on a period unless you have a luteal phase defect. The point of taking the P if you are taking E is to prevent hyperproliferation of the endometrium and if you have a period once every 2-3 months, then that should be enough. To do that, you would take the P for 10-12 days every 3 months.
The low ACTH should be further pursued. It could indicate a pituitary problem. You need to have your cortisol levels checked along with some other tests to rule that out.
I'm not convinced that temperature-taking is an accurate way to measure hypo. With women, hormone fluctuations, and also adrenal fatigue can cause peaks and valleys in the temp.
You might also be iodine-deficient and it might be helpful to try some iodine, along with selenium, which is necessary in order to convert the T4-->T3. Iodine deficiency can cause nodule and thyroid swelling.
I hope you are able to figure all this out. Obviously something is awry. If you have any questions or want some links to help with your research, let me know.
I don't know if this really relates to this thread, but it was an interesting observation.
I had run out of Prometrium, and was short of cash and couldn't get a refill for about 10 days. I figured because everyone here cycles the P all the time, it shouldn't hurt me not to take the P for a couple of weeks. For the first 5 or 6 days, I did ok. But after that I had a recurrence of anxiety, of those shakey, jittery mornings, super low energy and feeling just totally BLAH. I also started having trouble sleeping.
I got the P Rx filled, started taking the P again and all is well again. I know so many say that the P is bad, but for me it seems to be a necessity. I don't understand how all of these hormones interact with one another, but there is no doubt that they do and that for me, at least, the P is a necessary part of the cocktail.
Does anyone have any thought or theories?
Corky,
I just can't imagine how frustrated you must be feeling!! I hope you find your answer, and SOON!!
I had run out of Prometrium, and was short of cash and couldn't get a refill for about 10 days. I figured because everyone here cycles the P all the time, it shouldn't hurt me not to take the P for a couple of weeks. For the first 5 or 6 days, I did ok. But after that I had a recurrence of anxiety, of those shakey, jittery mornings, super low energy and feeling just totally BLAH. I also started having trouble sleeping.
I got the P Rx filled, started taking the P again and all is well again. I know so many say that the P is bad, but for me it seems to be a necessity. I don't understand how all of these hormones interact with one another, but there is no doubt that they do and that for me, at least, the P is a necessary part of the cocktail.
Does anyone have any thought or theories?
Corky,
I just can't imagine how frustrated you must be feeling!! I hope you find your answer, and SOON!!
Hmmm..I thought I needed to have the progesterone to cycle every month. That is what I'm trying to do for the short term as my cycles started to skip every few months. And my doctor had me initially taking 50mg every day but I stopped after the first month and just took 200mg for 12-14 days. I'm really afraid of having too much estrogen too so that is why I want to use the prometrium for the cycle each month. My progesterone has always come up lower than normal and since my main symptoms seem to by thyroid related I would think stopping the estrogen and taking the progesterone monthly may help. Do you think?
Also I do take 200 mcg of selenium and 50mg of zinc every day along with host of other minerals and vitamins.
The thyroid builder I bought has tyrosine (which my protein shake also contains about 1,000mg as well) and then some iodine and some type of bovine stuff as well. But I haven't decided if I'll try that just yet. I'm thinking of just doing the progesterone for a bit and see if these low thyroid symptoms get better. Unless of course I find another doctor who may decide to treat me with a low dose of Armour or Synthroid or something for a bit per my blood test results.
Also the first doctor did a slew of tests, adrenals, growth hormone, cortisol, E/P/T, pituitary, etc. They took 8 vials of blood from me and he said after reading the whole report: all is normal. Take 500mg Carnitine and 25mg DHEA and balance your other hormones and to continue with the testosterone cream because that was still low even with supplementing for 4 months. go figure.
Hi Floater:
I know what you mean about the progesterone. I read so many women's comments on the Prometrium. It seems that the younger women (20's, 30's) had more side effects and I think it's because they are still very regular. A few older women 55 and up had bad effects and one or two had a mini stroke. Then, many say it really helped them quite a bit. For me taking it every day that first month made me weepy and bloated.
But I'm going to stay with it a bit more.
Also today I got a bleed and I was feeling out of it until about 30 minutes after it started. Right now as of this moment I'm still cold to the bone, but my energy is better and I feel pretty normal. What hormone is highest at this very moment of the cycle? Like the minute the shedding starts? Is it estrogen or progesterone? Because maybe that will clue me better.
I know what you mean about the progesterone. I read so many women's comments on the Prometrium. It seems that the younger women (20's, 30's) had more side effects and I think it's because they are still very regular. A few older women 55 and up had bad effects and one or two had a mini stroke. Then, many say it really helped them quite a bit. For me taking it every day that first month made me weepy and bloated.
But I'm going to stay with it a bit more.
Also today I got a bleed and I was feeling out of it until about 30 minutes after it started. Right now as of this moment I'm still cold to the bone, but my energy is better and I feel pretty normal. What hormone is highest at this very moment of the cycle? Like the minute the shedding starts? Is it estrogen or progesterone? Because maybe that will clue me better.
I am pretty sure that during a normal cycle, both hormones are at their lowest point when a bleed starts. Estrogen will start to climb within a day or two, and then at mid cycle the E drops off the P rises. The P drops off towards the end of the cycle and a bleed starts. So both should be low right now....and of the two, the P should be the dominant of the two but on the low side. Of course this is going to switch right away.
I used to feel best after the first two or three days of my period, and for a about a week afterwards, so I did feel best with higher E. I felt the worst when the E dropped off the P was at its highest. So being P dominant didn't work for me!! But I know from hormone replacement that both are necessary for me to feel good.
I used to feel best after the first two or three days of my period, and for a about a week afterwards, so I did feel best with higher E. I felt the worst when the E dropped off the P was at its highest. So being P dominant didn't work for me!! But I know from hormone replacement that both are necessary for me to feel good.
I tried a herbal product called Thyrosense from Lorna Vanderhaeghe brand, 2 in the morning. It wasn't enough for me but it may be for you and it has helped many apparently.. I have hashi's and low thyroid also and now take 90mg. a day of pig thyroid(Armour thyroid in the U.S.). It helped my constant feeling of being cold and eliminated my awful stomach bloating completely and my hair is no longer like straw.. I tried Synthroid but it didin't help me much.
Afterwards I still had issues with fatigue depression irritability, insomnia etc. so now am just trying to get my Bio's figured out. Can you go to your regular dr. and just ask for a trial few months of thyroid medication and tell him or her that you are so tired of feeling so cold and would like to see if it would help you?
QUOTE (cashew @ Dec 6 2008, 02:57 PM)
I tried a herbal product called Thyrosense from Lorna Vanderhaeghe brand, 2 in the morning. It wasn't enough for me but it may be for you and it has helped many apparently.. I have hashi's and low thyroid also and now take 90mg. a day of pig thyroid(Armour thyroid in the U.S.). It helped my constant feeling of being cold and eliminated my awful stomach bloating completely and my hair is no longer like straw.. I tried Synthroid but it didin't help me much.
Afterwards I still had issues with fatigue depression irritability, insomnia etc. so now am just trying to get my Bio's figured out. Can you go to your regular dr. and just ask for a trial few months of thyroid medication and tell him or her that you are so tired of feeling so cold and would like to see if it would help you?
Afterwards I still had issues with fatigue depression irritability, insomnia etc. so now am just trying to get my Bio's figured out. Can you go to your regular dr. and just ask for a trial few months of thyroid medication and tell him or her that you are so tired of feeling so cold and would like to see if it would help you?
Hi Cashew (my favorite nut),
I tried to get the endocrinologist to give me some low dose of the Armour or anything, but he refused and said it was unethical and illegal for him to do so per my test results. I'm going to find another and see what I can get from him.
I will try the thryoid builder I have maybe next month and see if it helps. I do take 1,000 mg of tyrosine most days in a protein shake and also selenium and zinc too. Right now my temperature is 98.6 and I just got a period. But I'm sure it will start dropping again and stay low like it usually does.
QUOTE (Floater @ Dec 6 2008, 02:20 PM)
I am pretty sure that during a normal cycle, both hormones are at their lowest point when a bleed starts. Estrogen will start to climb within a day or two, and then at mid cycle the E drops off the P rises. The P drops off towards the end of the cycle and a bleed starts. So both should be low right now....and of the two, the P should be the dominant of the two but on the low side. Of course this is going to switch right away.
I used to feel best after the first two or three days of my period, and for a about a week afterwards, so I did feel best with higher E. I felt the worst when the E dropped off the P was at its highest. So being P dominant didn't work for me!! But I know from hormone replacement that both are necessary for me to feel good.
I used to feel best after the first two or three days of my period, and for a about a week afterwards, so I did feel best with higher E. I felt the worst when the E dropped off the P was at its highest. So being P dominant didn't work for me!! But I know from hormone replacement that both are necessary for me to feel good.
Well I feel pretty good today. So maybe since they are both low it's a more balanced type of thing, right? Now if I could just feel like this all the time, life would be great. And I stopped feeling chilled for a bit and took my temp and it was normal. Woo hoo!
I don't know if you are still having problems but have you gotten the latest copies of your blood tests... I know he is saying they are normal, but what you really need to know is if they are "optimal" for you. If you are still having symptoms then it sounds like your thyroid could still be off. Is he dosing you to the FT3 and FT4 or is he basing everything on the TSH. You really need to find out what your FT3 and FT4 numbers are... Unfortunately, most Endo's base everything on TSH and that is not correct!
Also, I've read that if you are on BHRT that you need more of the thyroid hormone because the BHRT seems to bind the thyroid hormone making it unusuable by the body, therefore, requiring more... Someone else might be able to confirm this...
Hope you're still feeling better...
TJ
Also, I've read that if you are on BHRT that you need more of the thyroid hormone because the BHRT seems to bind the thyroid hormone making it unusuable by the body, therefore, requiring more... Someone else might be able to confirm this...
Hope you're still feeling better...
TJ
Hi Skeeweeaka,
Well I started on 1/2 grain (30mg) Armour Dec. 23rd and 5mg Cortisol. I told him I was taking bio HRT and he said to continue doing that. Although he said I should take the progesterone every day b/c it is very good for the body. But I didn't like taking it every day so I switched a few months ago to Prometrium for 14 days only.
I am also spending much time on a thyroid board getting great information but it is still confusing to me. The moderators there told me 5mg cortisol is way to low so I have been taking another 5mg midday. My ACTH (adrenal test) was 9.9 way low so I am going to increase the cortisol 2.5mg every 3 days or so. I'm nervous about the Cortisol but the thyroid moderators say that the thyroid hormone won't work at all if the adrenals and cortisol aren't producing enough.
I'm just nervous about taking estriol, estradiol, testosterone, and prometrium and now thyroid and cortisol. It's just overwhelming. I was thinking maybe I should stop the bio HRT and just use the thyroid/cortisol, but this new MD said I should keep up with the bios too. He prescribes those as well. He's one of those holistic MDs.
I have to say it took about 4 months, but last month I finally got a cycle and now on day 14 again of the prometrium I've started another cycle. I wanted to keep cycling for awhile since I was just skipping mostly b/f I started the bios. Had I stopped completely for like 7 months or more I would've opted to just stop altogether and take the progesterone every day.
I'm beginning to believe that my sex hormones went all out of whack because of low adrenals and thyroid. I've had a few surgeries, some life stresses, emotional let downs, etc. during the last 5 years. I believe those issues caused me to have low adrenals/thyroid even though every time I tested for thyroid I was told all is normal. So after a year of just taking vitmains/herbs I opted for the bios. Now I find out my T4 is 0.97 and way to low and my symptoms are mostly hypo.
So now I'm on the low dose of Armour but still using the bios b/c the doctor said to continue. I'd really like to stop them and just see what happens on the thyroid. I am going to revisit that issue with him at my next appointment in 3 weeks.
QUOTE (corky21 @ Jan 2 2009, 09:58 AM)
Hi Skeeweeaka,
Well I started on 1/2 grain (30mg) Armour Dec. 23rd and 5mg Cortisol. I told him I was taking bio HRT and he said to continue doing that. Although he said I should take the progesterone every day b/c it is very good for the body. But I didn't like taking it every day so I switched a few months ago to Prometrium for 14 days only.
I am also spending much time on a thyroid board getting great information but it is still confusing to me. The moderators there told me 5mg cortisol is way to low so I have been taking another 5mg midday. My ACTH (adrenal test) was 9.9 way low so I am going to increase the cortisol 2.5mg every 3 days or so. I'm nervous about the Cortisol but the thyroid moderators say that the thyroid hormone won't work at all if the adrenals and cortisol aren't producing enough.
I'm just nervous about taking estriol, estradiol, testosterone, and prometrium and now thyroid and cortisol. It's just overwhelming. I was thinking maybe I should stop the bio HRT and just use the thyroid/cortisol, but this new MD said I should keep up with the bios too. He prescribes those as well. He's one of those holistic MDs.
I have to say it took about 4 months, but last month I finally got a cycle and now on day 14 again of the prometrium I've started another cycle. I wanted to keep cycling for awhile since I was just skipping mostly b/f I started the bios. Had I stopped completely for like 7 months or more I would've opted to just stop altogether and take the progesterone every day.
I'm beginning to believe that my sex hormones went all out of whack because of low adrenals and thyroid. I've had a few surgeries, some life stresses, emotional let downs, etc. during the last 5 years. I believe those issues caused me to have low adrenals/thyroid even though every time I tested for thyroid I was told all is normal. So after a year of just taking vitmains/herbs I opted for the bios. Now I find out my T4 is 0.97 and way to low and my symptoms are mostly hypo.
So now I'm on the low dose of Armour but still using the bios b/c the doctor said to continue. I'd really like to stop them and just see what happens on the thyroid. I am going to revisit that issue with him at my next appointment in 3 weeks.
Well I started on 1/2 grain (30mg) Armour Dec. 23rd and 5mg Cortisol. I told him I was taking bio HRT and he said to continue doing that. Although he said I should take the progesterone every day b/c it is very good for the body. But I didn't like taking it every day so I switched a few months ago to Prometrium for 14 days only.
I am also spending much time on a thyroid board getting great information but it is still confusing to me. The moderators there told me 5mg cortisol is way to low so I have been taking another 5mg midday. My ACTH (adrenal test) was 9.9 way low so I am going to increase the cortisol 2.5mg every 3 days or so. I'm nervous about the Cortisol but the thyroid moderators say that the thyroid hormone won't work at all if the adrenals and cortisol aren't producing enough.
I'm just nervous about taking estriol, estradiol, testosterone, and prometrium and now thyroid and cortisol. It's just overwhelming. I was thinking maybe I should stop the bio HRT and just use the thyroid/cortisol, but this new MD said I should keep up with the bios too. He prescribes those as well. He's one of those holistic MDs.
I have to say it took about 4 months, but last month I finally got a cycle and now on day 14 again of the prometrium I've started another cycle. I wanted to keep cycling for awhile since I was just skipping mostly b/f I started the bios. Had I stopped completely for like 7 months or more I would've opted to just stop altogether and take the progesterone every day.
I'm beginning to believe that my sex hormones went all out of whack because of low adrenals and thyroid. I've had a few surgeries, some life stresses, emotional let downs, etc. during the last 5 years. I believe those issues caused me to have low adrenals/thyroid even though every time I tested for thyroid I was told all is normal. So after a year of just taking vitmains/herbs I opted for the bios. Now I find out my T4 is 0.97 and way to low and my symptoms are mostly hypo.
So now I'm on the low dose of Armour but still using the bios b/c the doctor said to continue. I'd really like to stop them and just see what happens on the thyroid. I am going to revisit that issue with him at my next appointment in 3 weeks.
Hey Corky,
It sounds a lot like the protocol I will be placed on.... My ovarian, thyroid, adrenals, iron, and all are really much lower than what is "optimal." It will probably take some time before you feel better. Last night I was reading Dr. Vliet's book, or rereading it, and she says, as well as a thyroid advocate that I speak with, says the ovarian hormones and the adrenals and ferritin levels all have to be in alignment in order for thyroid meds to work properly. So I would not stop that protocol, they started you on 1/2 grain...is there anyway to split that half so you take it twice a day because it has a short life...I forget how many hours... Most people feel better taking it that way and some people even take the Armour sublingually and say that it works faster that way...
Keep us posted on your progress and I hope you have a Happier New Year! As a matter of fact, I'm sure once your dosage it tweaked properly you'll feel much, much better!
TJ
Also, I meant to say that it is more than likely that the ovarian hormone and adrenal fatigue lead to the thyroid problem...thyroid function is suppressed when the ovarian hormones and adrenals are not functioning properly...
TJ
TJ
Corky,
While it may be true you are low in all the hormones, I'm not a fan of starting several of them at once. I did that once, and it was a nightmare, trying to figure which one was causing the awful symptoms.
If your thyroid is low, it causes low metabolism, so it causes your adrenals to kick in to take up the slack. If that continues for a length of time without getting the thyroid functioning normally, then the adrenals slowly burn out. On the other hand, low cortisol can prevent the T4-->T3 conversion, so you do need to be on HC in order to make that happen. So usually starting the hc first for a few weeks, then adding thyroid meds low and slow is a good plan. I believe many people start on too high of a dose of thyroid meds to start. Even 30 mg to start has caused problems for many, including me. I had to start with 7.5 mg to see how I did on that, then after a few weeks of tolerating that, I increased to 15 mg and held for 6 weeks. I always wait 6 weeks to increase, since it takes that long for the full effects of the T4 to be felt, and if you increase sooner, you will have a cumulative effect that can make you hyper once all the T4 finally kicks in.
Often once the thyroid and adrenals are normal, there is a reduced need to supplement sex hormones. When the ovarian function declines, the adrenals take up the slack of sex hormone production, albeit at lower levels. But if the adrenals are fatigued, they cannot do that job adequately.
I really feel that it's wise to get optimized on hc, then thyroid first, before adding any other hormones to the mix to confuse everything. Once the thyroid and adrenals are optimized, and you are familiar with how you feel on the right dose, then you can slowly add estrogen and you will be more able to tell how it affects you since you are already familiar with how you feel with the adrenal and thyroid meds. Estrogen increases SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) which binds up thyroid hormone and inhibits its action. So I'm concerned that if you start E first when you are already hypo, it could worsen the situation.
Sorry if I missed this, but were your sex hormones measured by serum or saliva?
While it may be true you are low in all the hormones, I'm not a fan of starting several of them at once. I did that once, and it was a nightmare, trying to figure which one was causing the awful symptoms.
If your thyroid is low, it causes low metabolism, so it causes your adrenals to kick in to take up the slack. If that continues for a length of time without getting the thyroid functioning normally, then the adrenals slowly burn out. On the other hand, low cortisol can prevent the T4-->T3 conversion, so you do need to be on HC in order to make that happen. So usually starting the hc first for a few weeks, then adding thyroid meds low and slow is a good plan. I believe many people start on too high of a dose of thyroid meds to start. Even 30 mg to start has caused problems for many, including me. I had to start with 7.5 mg to see how I did on that, then after a few weeks of tolerating that, I increased to 15 mg and held for 6 weeks. I always wait 6 weeks to increase, since it takes that long for the full effects of the T4 to be felt, and if you increase sooner, you will have a cumulative effect that can make you hyper once all the T4 finally kicks in.
Often once the thyroid and adrenals are normal, there is a reduced need to supplement sex hormones. When the ovarian function declines, the adrenals take up the slack of sex hormone production, albeit at lower levels. But if the adrenals are fatigued, they cannot do that job adequately.
I really feel that it's wise to get optimized on hc, then thyroid first, before adding any other hormones to the mix to confuse everything. Once the thyroid and adrenals are optimized, and you are familiar with how you feel on the right dose, then you can slowly add estrogen and you will be more able to tell how it affects you since you are already familiar with how you feel with the adrenal and thyroid meds. Estrogen increases SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) which binds up thyroid hormone and inhibits its action. So I'm concerned that if you start E first when you are already hypo, it could worsen the situation.
Sorry if I missed this, but were your sex hormones measured by serum or saliva?
QUOTE (Sariah @ Jan 2 2009, 08:07 PM)
Corky,
While it may be true you are low in all the hormones, I'm not a fan of starting several of them at once. I did that once, and it was a nightmare, trying to figure which one was causing the awful symptoms.
If your thyroid is low, it causes low metabolism, so it causes your adrenals to kick in to take up the slack. If that continues for a length of time without getting the thyroid functioning normally, then the adrenals slowly burn out. On the other hand, low cortisol can prevent the T4-->T3 conversion, so you do need to be on HC in order to make that happen. So usually starting the hc first for a few weeks, then adding thyroid meds low and slow is a good plan. I believe many people start on too high of a dose of thyroid meds to start. Even 30 mg to start has caused problems for many, including me. I had to start with 7.5 mg to see how I did on that, then after a few weeks of tolerating that, I increased to 15 mg and held for 6 weeks. I always wait 6 weeks to increase, since it takes that long for the full effects of the T4 to be felt, and if you increase sooner, you will have a cumulative effect that can make you hyper once all the T4 finally kicks in.
Often once the thyroid and adrenals are normal, there is a reduced need to supplement sex hormones. When the ovarian function declines, the adrenals take up the slack of sex hormone production, albeit at lower levels. But if the adrenals are fatigued, they cannot do that job adequately.
I really feel that it's wise to get optimized on hc, then thyroid first, before adding any other hormones to the mix to confuse everything. Once the thyroid and adrenals are optimized, and you are familiar with how you feel on the right dose, then you can slowly add estrogen and you will be more able to tell how it affects you since you are already familiar with how you feel with the adrenal and thyroid meds. Estrogen increases SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) which binds up thyroid hormone and inhibits its action. So I'm concerned that if you start E first when you are already hypo, it could worsen the situation.
Sorry if I missed this, but were your sex hormones measured by serum or saliva?
While it may be true you are low in all the hormones, I'm not a fan of starting several of them at once. I did that once, and it was a nightmare, trying to figure which one was causing the awful symptoms.
If your thyroid is low, it causes low metabolism, so it causes your adrenals to kick in to take up the slack. If that continues for a length of time without getting the thyroid functioning normally, then the adrenals slowly burn out. On the other hand, low cortisol can prevent the T4-->T3 conversion, so you do need to be on HC in order to make that happen. So usually starting the hc first for a few weeks, then adding thyroid meds low and slow is a good plan. I believe many people start on too high of a dose of thyroid meds to start. Even 30 mg to start has caused problems for many, including me. I had to start with 7.5 mg to see how I did on that, then after a few weeks of tolerating that, I increased to 15 mg and held for 6 weeks. I always wait 6 weeks to increase, since it takes that long for the full effects of the T4 to be felt, and if you increase sooner, you will have a cumulative effect that can make you hyper once all the T4 finally kicks in.
Often once the thyroid and adrenals are normal, there is a reduced need to supplement sex hormones. When the ovarian function declines, the adrenals take up the slack of sex hormone production, albeit at lower levels. But if the adrenals are fatigued, they cannot do that job adequately.
I really feel that it's wise to get optimized on hc, then thyroid first, before adding any other hormones to the mix to confuse everything. Once the thyroid and adrenals are optimized, and you are familiar with how you feel on the right dose, then you can slowly add estrogen and you will be more able to tell how it affects you since you are already familiar with how you feel with the adrenal and thyroid meds. Estrogen increases SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) which binds up thyroid hormone and inhibits its action. So I'm concerned that if you start E first when you are already hypo, it could worsen the situation.
Sorry if I missed this, but were your sex hormones measured by serum or saliva?
Hi Sariah:
Unfortunately, I've been on a low dose Bi-est and testosterone cream and progesterone now for 6 months. I was told a few times this past year that my thyroid was fine, so I went for the bio HRT. It did help my mood swings, but I never noticed any zip in energy, or pain relief, or normal skin, etc. I still had mostly hypo symptoms. So I pursued that end for the last 2 months.
I finally found a doctor who would treat with Armour and HC but b/c I've been on the bio HRT for 6 months he said to keep using that. I did go off the bios for one week and I was having major depression breakdowns, and some rage issues. That was before I even got to this Armour doctor.
I asked him wouldn't it be better for me to stop the bios and just start with the cortisol first and he said no. He said taking the Armour and cortisol together (at separate times) was fine. He said to just take 5mg of the HC with the 1/2 grain of Armour, but the thyroid board where I get a lot of help said 5mg is way too low and to take another 5mg. They also told me to split up the doses too of both the armour and the HC throughout the day. My doctor increased me to 1 grain and said to take both pills together (60mg) in the morning. I did read that some people do fine taking it all at once, but I'm splitting it to 30mg in the a.m. and 30 mg in the midday.
So I'm not sure what to do about the bio HRT? Should I wean off and just use the HC and Armour? When I stopped for one week I wasn't feeling well at all. If I do, should I just use it every other day, then every 3 days, etc. I only use the prometrium once a month. Right now I have a cycle and I don't plan on using any Bi-est at all this week. I was trying to get a regular cycle for months and now 4 months after the bios I started to get regular again. Why did it take so long?
QUOTE (corky21 @ Jan 2 2009, 06:29 PM)
Hi Sariah:
Unfortunately, I've been on a low dose Bi-est and testosterone cream and progesterone now for 6 months. I was told a few times this past year that my thyroid was fine, so I went for the bio HRT. It did help my mood swings, but I never noticed any zip in energy, or pain relief, or normal skin, etc. I still had mostly hypo symptoms. So I pursued that end for the last 2 months.
I finally found a doctor who would treat with Armour and HC but b/c I've been on the bio HRT for 6 months he said to keep using that. I did go off the bios for one week and I was having major depression breakdowns, and some rage issues. That was before I even got to this Armour doctor.
I asked him wouldn't it be better for me to stop the bios and just start with the cortisol first and he said no. He said taking the Armour and cortisol together (at separate times) was fine. He said to just take 5mg of the HC with the 1/2 grain of Armour, but the thyroid board where I get a lot of help said 5mg is way too low and to take another 5mg. They also told me to split up the doses too of both the armour and the HC throughout the day. My doctor increased me to 1 grain and said to take both pills together (60mg) in the morning. I did read that some people do fine taking it all at once, but I'm splitting it to 30mg in the a.m. and 30 mg in the midday.
So I'm not sure what to do about the bio HRT? Should I wean off and just use the HC and Armour? When I stopped for one week I wasn't feeling well at all. If I do, should I just use it every other day, then every 3 days, etc. I only use the prometrium once a month. Right now I have a cycle and I don't plan on using any Bi-est at all this week. I was trying to get a regular cycle for months and now 4 months after the bios I started to get regular again. Why did it take so long?
Unfortunately, I've been on a low dose Bi-est and testosterone cream and progesterone now for 6 months. I was told a few times this past year that my thyroid was fine, so I went for the bio HRT. It did help my mood swings, but I never noticed any zip in energy, or pain relief, or normal skin, etc. I still had mostly hypo symptoms. So I pursued that end for the last 2 months.
I finally found a doctor who would treat with Armour and HC but b/c I've been on the bio HRT for 6 months he said to keep using that. I did go off the bios for one week and I was having major depression breakdowns, and some rage issues. That was before I even got to this Armour doctor.
I asked him wouldn't it be better for me to stop the bios and just start with the cortisol first and he said no. He said taking the Armour and cortisol together (at separate times) was fine. He said to just take 5mg of the HC with the 1/2 grain of Armour, but the thyroid board where I get a lot of help said 5mg is way too low and to take another 5mg. They also told me to split up the doses too of both the armour and the HC throughout the day. My doctor increased me to 1 grain and said to take both pills together (60mg) in the morning. I did read that some people do fine taking it all at once, but I'm splitting it to 30mg in the a.m. and 30 mg in the midday.
So I'm not sure what to do about the bio HRT? Should I wean off and just use the HC and Armour? When I stopped for one week I wasn't feeling well at all. If I do, should I just use it every other day, then every 3 days, etc. I only use the prometrium once a month. Right now I have a cycle and I don't plan on using any Bi-est at all this week. I was trying to get a regular cycle for months and now 4 months after the bios I started to get regular again. Why did it take so long?
I'm so sorry you're having such a difficult time, have you had your hormone levels retested...perhaps the combination that you are on needs to be tweaked... Personally, I think weaning yourself off of hormones would be the wrong thing to do if you've already been tested and your female hormones aren't balanced... Can you email Pete and see what he suggests, perhaps get a consult...
I actually had a consult scheduled to get thyroid meds but because the doctor said I need to balance my female hormones, cortisol, and iron first I cancelled it... Your thyroid levels might be worse than mine, however...
Just trying to help...hope you figure out something soon...
TJ
Corky,
I didn't realize you had already been on the female hormones for awhile now, so my original advice to just start with thyroid and adrenal is not applicable in your case. Since you are already familiar with how the sex hormones are affecting you, then don't stop them. I just don't like to see people STARTING several hormones at once as it quickly muddies the waters and makes it impossible to sort through what hormone is causing what symptoms.
I do know that those on the thyroid/adrenal boards say that we should be on a minimum of 20-25mg of hc/day, but I personally have found that I can do with less. My highest dose is 12.5, and frequently less. Unfortunately, there are no hard and fast rules about which amount will work for each person, so you will have to experiment. I found using the 5mg 4x/day caused weight gain and wasn't necessary. Too many times I see advice which tells someone to start at a dose of thyroid, adrenal, or other hormones that ends up causing problems, when starting with tiny doses and working up very slowly will not. It takes a longer time and more patience but it's better than suffering symptoms and having to backtrack.
I do respect the advice given on those forums and have found it helpful, but I've learned that it is not set in stone and that I shouldn't automatically use the doses they say is best for 'most' people. So see how your body responds to low doses for awhile before you increase.
I didn't realize you had already been on the female hormones for awhile now, so my original advice to just start with thyroid and adrenal is not applicable in your case. Since you are already familiar with how the sex hormones are affecting you, then don't stop them. I just don't like to see people STARTING several hormones at once as it quickly muddies the waters and makes it impossible to sort through what hormone is causing what symptoms.
I do know that those on the thyroid/adrenal boards say that we should be on a minimum of 20-25mg of hc/day, but I personally have found that I can do with less. My highest dose is 12.5, and frequently less. Unfortunately, there are no hard and fast rules about which amount will work for each person, so you will have to experiment. I found using the 5mg 4x/day caused weight gain and wasn't necessary. Too many times I see advice which tells someone to start at a dose of thyroid, adrenal, or other hormones that ends up causing problems, when starting with tiny doses and working up very slowly will not. It takes a longer time and more patience but it's better than suffering symptoms and having to backtrack.
I do respect the advice given on those forums and have found it helpful, but I've learned that it is not set in stone and that I shouldn't automatically use the doses they say is best for 'most' people. So see how your body responds to low doses for awhile before you increase.
QUOTE (Sariah @ Jan 3 2009, 11:48 AM)
Corky,
I didn't realize you had already been on the female hormones for awhile now, so my original advice to just start with thyroid and adrenal is not applicable in your case. Since you are already familiar with how the sex hormones are affecting you, then don't stop them. I just don't like to see people STARTING several hormones at once as it quickly muddies the waters and makes it impossible to sort through what hormone is causing what symptoms.
I do know that those on the thyroid/adrenal boards say that we should be on a minimum of 20-25mg of hc/day, but I personally have found that I can do with less. My highest dose is 12.5, and frequently less. Unfortunately, there are no hard and fast rules about which amount will work for each person, so you will have to experiment. I found using the 5mg 4x/day caused weight gain and wasn't necessary. Too many times I see advice which tells someone to start at a dose of thyroid, adrenal, or other hormones that ends up causing problems, when starting with tiny doses and working up very slowly will not. It takes a longer time and more patience but it's better than suffering symptoms and having to backtrack.
I do respect the advice given on those forums and have found it helpful, but I've learned that it is not set in stone and that I shouldn't automatically use the doses they say is best for 'most' people. So see how your body responds to low doses for awhile before you increase.
I didn't realize you had already been on the female hormones for awhile now, so my original advice to just start with thyroid and adrenal is not applicable in your case. Since you are already familiar with how the sex hormones are affecting you, then don't stop them. I just don't like to see people STARTING several hormones at once as it quickly muddies the waters and makes it impossible to sort through what hormone is causing what symptoms.
I do know that those on the thyroid/adrenal boards say that we should be on a minimum of 20-25mg of hc/day, but I personally have found that I can do with less. My highest dose is 12.5, and frequently less. Unfortunately, there are no hard and fast rules about which amount will work for each person, so you will have to experiment. I found using the 5mg 4x/day caused weight gain and wasn't necessary. Too many times I see advice which tells someone to start at a dose of thyroid, adrenal, or other hormones that ends up causing problems, when starting with tiny doses and working up very slowly will not. It takes a longer time and more patience but it's better than suffering symptoms and having to backtrack.
I do respect the advice given on those forums and have found it helpful, but I've learned that it is not set in stone and that I shouldn't automatically use the doses they say is best for 'most' people. So see how your body responds to low doses for awhile before you increase.
I agree Sariah, everyone is different in terms of dosing... I think listening to your body and working with a doctor is the best route to go... It just may take a while for the thyroid meds to kick in...hopefully splitting the dose or sublingual will work...
TJ
QUOTE (corky21 @ Jan 2 2009, 10:58 AM)
Hi Skeeweeaka,
Well I started on 1/2 grain (30mg) Armour Dec. 23rd and 5mg Cortisol. I told him I was taking bio HRT and he said to continue doing that. Although he said I should take the progesterone every day b/c it is very good for the body. But I didn't like taking it every day so I switched a few months ago to Prometrium for 14 days only.
I am also spending much time on a thyroid board getting great information but it is still confusing to me. The moderators there told me 5mg cortisol is way to low so I have been taking another 5mg midday. My ACTH (adrenal test) was 9.9 way low so I am going to increase the cortisol 2.5mg every 3 days or so. I'm nervous about the Cortisol but the thyroid moderators say that the thyroid hormone won't work at all if the adrenals and cortisol aren't producing enough.
I'm just nervous about taking estriol, estradiol, testosterone, and prometrium and now thyroid and cortisol. It's just overwhelming. I was thinking maybe I should stop the bio HRT and just use the thyroid/cortisol, but this new MD said I should keep up with the bios too. He prescribes those as well. He's one of those holistic MDs.
I have to say it took about 4 months, but last month I finally got a cycle and now on day 14 again of the prometrium I've started another cycle. I wanted to keep cycling for awhile since I was just skipping mostly b/f I started the bios. Had I stopped completely for like 7 months or more I would've opted to just stop altogether and take the progesterone every day.
I'm beginning to believe that my sex hormones went all out of whack because of low adrenals and thyroid. I've had a few surgeries, some life stresses, emotional let downs, etc. during the last 5 years. I believe those issues caused me to have low adrenals/thyroid even though every time I tested for thyroid I was told all is normal. So after a year of just taking vitmains/herbs I opted for the bios. Now I find out my T4 is 0.97 and way to low and my symptoms are mostly hypo.
So now I'm on the low dose of Armour but still using the bios b/c the doctor said to continue. I'd really like to stop them and just see what happens on the thyroid. I am going to revisit that issue with him at my next appointment in 3 weeks.
The moderators on that board are absolutely correct, corky, your dose of cortisol is too low. When i first started Armour (in Nov of '06) i did well for a few weeks then i started getting those "bizarre" hyperthyroid symptoms, frequent sweating, racing heart, heart palps, nervouseness, anxiety, tremors, unable to tolerate any kind of stress even under normal conditions, and just wanting to crawl under a rock. I became almost dependent on anxiey drugs (Valium) just to simply help me get through an 8 hour work day. I immediately went to that thyroid website (i think i know which one you are refering to, alos i am registered on, since 2006) and i read up on Adrenal fatigue and it turned out that i had most of the symptoms. I was shocked when i discussed this with my PCP ( i had been through 2 endos at the time and wasn't seeing any) and he agreed to give me HC (short for Hydrocortisone). I followed the dosing chart and immediately started feeling better. But....i made the HUGE mistake of weaning off to quickly around March of '07 and before i knew it i was right back where i started, long story (i won't get into it here) but over the past 2 years i was on and off of HC when all along i should have just stayed on it right from the beginning, instead i was stubborn and thought i knew what i was doing, but i didn't know.Well I started on 1/2 grain (30mg) Armour Dec. 23rd and 5mg Cortisol. I told him I was taking bio HRT and he said to continue doing that. Although he said I should take the progesterone every day b/c it is very good for the body. But I didn't like taking it every day so I switched a few months ago to Prometrium for 14 days only.
I am also spending much time on a thyroid board getting great information but it is still confusing to me. The moderators there told me 5mg cortisol is way to low so I have been taking another 5mg midday. My ACTH (adrenal test) was 9.9 way low so I am going to increase the cortisol 2.5mg every 3 days or so. I'm nervous about the Cortisol but the thyroid moderators say that the thyroid hormone won't work at all if the adrenals and cortisol aren't producing enough.
I'm just nervous about taking estriol, estradiol, testosterone, and prometrium and now thyroid and cortisol. It's just overwhelming. I was thinking maybe I should stop the bio HRT and just use the thyroid/cortisol, but this new MD said I should keep up with the bios too. He prescribes those as well. He's one of those holistic MDs.
I have to say it took about 4 months, but last month I finally got a cycle and now on day 14 again of the prometrium I've started another cycle. I wanted to keep cycling for awhile since I was just skipping mostly b/f I started the bios. Had I stopped completely for like 7 months or more I would've opted to just stop altogether and take the progesterone every day.
I'm beginning to believe that my sex hormones went all out of whack because of low adrenals and thyroid. I've had a few surgeries, some life stresses, emotional let downs, etc. during the last 5 years. I believe those issues caused me to have low adrenals/thyroid even though every time I tested for thyroid I was told all is normal. So after a year of just taking vitmains/herbs I opted for the bios. Now I find out my T4 is 0.97 and way to low and my symptoms are mostly hypo.
So now I'm on the low dose of Armour but still using the bios b/c the doctor said to continue. I'd really like to stop them and just see what happens on the thyroid. I am going to revisit that issue with him at my next appointment in 3 weeks.
I weanerd off HC for the last time in March of '08 and once again i started having 'thyroid dump' symptoms (the ones i described above) and just related it to beiing in perimeno...i was wrong. I was forced to stop my Armour this past Sept in preparation to finally have a 24 hour adrenal saliva cortisol test,(my PCP ordered) which i had done on 10/4, i tested extremely low, so much that i am probably beyond just Adrenal Fatigue, i am more like Adrenal deficient. So i needed the HC all along, I restarted it on 10/18 at 20 mg (divided into 4 doses) a day and my symptoms were almost gone, i restarted my Armour at the smallest dose of 1/4 grain, i am now up to 3.50 grains and increasing by 1/4 grain every 2 weeks. I am still sweating once in a while, but no heart palps and i handle stress much better.
My HC was upped to 25mg a day on 12/8 and so far no side effects, and no weight gain (which i worried about since HC is a steroid)! I started cutting back on the holiday goodies and junk food this past Monday and, through healthy eating and less junk food, i have lost 8 lbs!
My story is quite lengthy and i am writing a journal about it on one of the thyroid boards that i am registered on. While i'm not yet optimized on Armour i am doing much better than before.
QUOTE (aprillv68 @ Jan 4 2009, 01:21 PM)
The moderators on that board are absolutely correct, corky, your dose of cortisol is too low. When i first started Armour (in Nov of '06) i did well for a few weeks then i started getting those "bizarre" hyperthyroid symptoms, frequent sweating, racing heart, heart palps, nervouseness, anxiety, tremors, unable to tolerate any kind of stress even under normal conditions, and just wanting to crawl under a rock. I became almost dependent on anxiey drugs (Valium) just to simply help me get through an 8 hour work day. I immediately went to that thyroid website (i think i know which one you are refering to, alos i am registered on, since 2006) and i read up on Adrenal fatigue and it turned out that i had most of the symptoms. I was shocked when i discussed this with my PCP ( i had been through 2 endos at the time and wasn't seeing any) and he agreed to give me HC (short for Hydrocortisone). I followed the dosing chart and immediately started feeling better. But....i made the HUGE mistake of weaning off to quickly around March of '07 and before i knew it i was right back where i started, long story (i won't get into it here) but over the past 2 years i was on and off of HC when all along i should have just stayed on it right from the beginning, instead i was stubborn and thought i knew what i was doing, but i didn't know.
I weanerd off HC for the last time in March of '08 and once again i started having 'thyroid dump' symptoms (the ones i described above) and just related it to beiing in perimeno...i was wrong. I was forced to stop my Armour this past Sept in preparation to finally have a 24 hour adrenal saliva cortisol test,(my PCP ordered) which i had done on 10/4, i tested extremely low, so much that i am probably beyond just Adrenal Fatigue, i am more like Adrenal deficient. So i needed the HC all along, I restarted it on 10/18 at 20 mg (divided into 4 doses) a day and my symptoms were almost gone, i restarted my Armour at the smallest dose of 1/4 grain, i am now up to 3.50 grains and increasing by 1/4 grain every 2 weeks. I am still sweating once in a while, but no heart palps and i handle stress much better.
My HC was upped to 25mg a day on 12/8 and so far no side effects, and no weight gain (which i worried about since HC is a steroid)! I started cutting back on the holiday goodies and junk food this past Monday and, through healthy eating and less junk food, i have lost 8 lbs!
My story is quite lengthy and i am writing a journal about it on one of the thyroid boards that i am registered on. While i'm not yet optimized on Armour i am doing much better than before.
I weanerd off HC for the last time in March of '08 and once again i started having 'thyroid dump' symptoms (the ones i described above) and just related it to beiing in perimeno...i was wrong. I was forced to stop my Armour this past Sept in preparation to finally have a 24 hour adrenal saliva cortisol test,(my PCP ordered) which i had done on 10/4, i tested extremely low, so much that i am probably beyond just Adrenal Fatigue, i am more like Adrenal deficient. So i needed the HC all along, I restarted it on 10/18 at 20 mg (divided into 4 doses) a day and my symptoms were almost gone, i restarted my Armour at the smallest dose of 1/4 grain, i am now up to 3.50 grains and increasing by 1/4 grain every 2 weeks. I am still sweating once in a while, but no heart palps and i handle stress much better.
My HC was upped to 25mg a day on 12/8 and so far no side effects, and no weight gain (which i worried about since HC is a steroid)! I started cutting back on the holiday goodies and junk food this past Monday and, through healthy eating and less junk food, i have lost 8 lbs!
My story is quite lengthy and i am writing a journal about it on one of the thyroid boards that i am registered on. While i'm not yet optimized on Armour i am doing much better than before.
April, did you have the blood test...one time testing...or the urine tests over a 24 hour period 4x a day...??? I've heard that the urine tests are more accurate but wanted to know what they used.... Dr. Richard Shames talks a lot about balancing adrenals, thyroid, and female hormoens and how crucial that is to feeling "normal" again in menopause or peri...
TJ
Well see everyone has different opinions on how to dose. My new naturpath doctor said to just use 10mg of cortisol: 5mg 2x a day. He put me on 1/4 grain for one week then the second week he said to take a second 1/4 at the same time and to keep the cortisol at 10mg. The thyroid forum says 10mg is way too low and the Armour won't work, but some people say they do fine. So I'm at a loss. I guess I have to just try it for myself. Today I woke up with sore throat, headache and it must be some virus; hoping its not the flu. The thyroid forum says to stress dose; to take an extra 10mg right at the start of a cold and it won't hang around as long. My doctor says no just to keep taking 10mg and the cortisol that will help the virus symptoms. Today I only took an additional 2.5mg as a stress dose. Maybe tomorrow morning I'll take 10mg after breakfast instead of the 5 and then 5mg at lunch and see how that goes, that will be 15mg. I figure to go up a little at a time?
I didn't have the adrenal stim test but my ACTH was 9.9 and I've noticed people on the other board with ACTH levels higher than mine, say 12, 15, 18, are taking 25-30 of the HC and even more thyroid. I'm just nervous about taking the cortisol for some reason. I'm not nervous about the thyroid hormone or my bio HRT too much, but this Cortef gets me anxious.
I've decided to stay on the low doses of bi-est, testosterone, and prometrium for awhile longer because I was also told that if those hormone levels were low, and the testosterone and progesterone were, then with my adrenals and thyroid being off, the E/P/T won't ever get back to normal levels so I may as well stay on the bios for a little longer too.
I didn't have the adrenal stim test but my ACTH was 9.9 and I've noticed people on the other board with ACTH levels higher than mine, say 12, 15, 18, are taking 25-30 of the HC and even more thyroid. I'm just nervous about taking the cortisol for some reason. I'm not nervous about the thyroid hormone or my bio HRT too much, but this Cortef gets me anxious.
I've decided to stay on the low doses of bi-est, testosterone, and prometrium for awhile longer because I was also told that if those hormone levels were low, and the testosterone and progesterone were, then with my adrenals and thyroid being off, the E/P/T won't ever get back to normal levels so I may as well stay on the bios for a little longer too.
Corky, I read your posts but instead of rereading because of my brain fog tonight please clear up since I’m confused on rather you are taking replacement thyroid hormones or not?
Must say I am not a big fan of doctors giving thyroid medication on symptoms alone. In Fact because of some law suits most will not do it anymore. If your tsh is around 1.3 and you added just a small dose you could spiral into hyperthyroidism. Many people are confused when they hear their tsh is low, assuming they need replacement hormones when in fact it is the opposite! Hyperthyroidism is a much worse condition then hypothyroidism.
PLEASE PLEASE be careful on what you read on thyroid boards! Try to find a doctor you trust and it does not have to be a endocinologist.
I have a loooong history of thryoid problems and after thyroid cancer, one treatment is to give the patient high doses of thyroid medication. The therory is to keep the patient hyper so the cancer won't return.
Well my endo at the time OD me and one night I ended up in the ER. The ER doctor told me later I was in a state like someone on crack! TG he knew what he was doing!
Must say I am not a big fan of doctors giving thyroid medication on symptoms alone. In Fact because of some law suits most will not do it anymore. If your tsh is around 1.3 and you added just a small dose you could spiral into hyperthyroidism. Many people are confused when they hear their tsh is low, assuming they need replacement hormones when in fact it is the opposite! Hyperthyroidism is a much worse condition then hypothyroidism.
PLEASE PLEASE be careful on what you read on thyroid boards! Try to find a doctor you trust and it does not have to be a endocinologist.
I have a loooong history of thryoid problems and after thyroid cancer, one treatment is to give the patient high doses of thyroid medication. The therory is to keep the patient hyper so the cancer won't return.
Well my endo at the time OD me and one night I ended up in the ER. The ER doctor told me later I was in a state like someone on crack! TG he knew what he was doing!
QUOTE (corky21 @ Jan 4 2009, 07:16 PM)
Well see everyone has different opinions on how to dose. My new naturpath doctor said to just use 10mg of cortisol: 5mg 2x a day. He put me on 1/4 grain for one week then the second week he said to take a second 1/4 at the same time and to keep the cortisol at 10mg. The thyroid forum says 10mg is way too low and the Armour won't work, but some people say they do fine. So I'm at a loss. I guess I have to just try it for myself. Today I woke up with sore throat, headache and it must be some virus; hoping its not the flu. The thyroid forum says to stress dose; to take an extra 10mg right at the start of a cold and it won't hang around as long. My doctor says no just to keep taking 10mg and the cortisol that will help the virus symptoms. Today I only took an additional 2.5mg as a stress dose. Maybe tomorrow morning I'll take 10mg after breakfast instead of the 5 and then 5mg at lunch and see how that goes, that will be 15mg. I figure to go up a little at a time?
I didn't have the adrenal stim test but my ACTH was 9.9 and I've noticed people on the other board with ACTH levels higher than mine, say 12, 15, 18, are taking 25-30 of the HC and even more thyroid. I'm just nervous about taking the cortisol for some reason. I'm not nervous about the thyroid hormone or my bio HRT too much, but this Cortef gets me anxious.
I've decided to stay on the low doses of bi-est, testosterone, and prometrium for awhile longer because I was also told that if those hormone levels were low, and the testosterone and progesterone were, then with my adrenals and thyroid being off, the E/P/T won't ever get back to normal levels so I may as well stay on the bios for a little longer too.
I didn't have the adrenal stim test but my ACTH was 9.9 and I've noticed people on the other board with ACTH levels higher than mine, say 12, 15, 18, are taking 25-30 of the HC and even more thyroid. I'm just nervous about taking the cortisol for some reason. I'm not nervous about the thyroid hormone or my bio HRT too much, but this Cortef gets me anxious.
I've decided to stay on the low doses of bi-est, testosterone, and prometrium for awhile longer because I was also told that if those hormone levels were low, and the testosterone and progesterone were, then with my adrenals and thyroid being off, the E/P/T won't ever get back to normal levels so I may as well stay on the bios for a little longer too.
Hey Corky....I was reading another book by Dr. Shames and he did say that the adrenals and thyroid have to be optimized before the female hormones will fall inline... Sounds complicated and I am paying special attention so I know what to do.... Someone else on here suggested starting one or two hormones at a time and I think I will go with that method....although you can't...perhaps keeping the E/P/T at low doses for now will work for you...
I'm with Snow in terms of listening to what others have to say about dosing... I know there is some good info out there in terms of advocates, but when dealing with Cortisone I'm not sure.... I'm sorry things are so frustrating for you right now! Why does it all have to be so darn complicated...heavy sigh???
Hope you're feeling better today!
TJ
QUOTE (SKEEWEEAKA @ Jan 4 2009, 05:38 PM)
April, did you have the blood test...one time testing...or the urine tests over a 24 hour period 4x a day...??? I've heard that the urine tests are more accurate but wanted to know what they used.... Dr. Richard Shames talks a lot about balancing adrenals, thyroid, and female hormoens and how crucial that is to feeling "normal" again in menopause or peri...
TJ
TJ
Two years ago i had a blood test for my cortisol level and it was low ( i had it drawn at a fasting level in the am) and i had a 24 hour adrenal saliva test done this past October, that was even more low. I had to spit in 4 tubes (6am, 11am, 5pm, & 11pm). No the urine tests are not as accurate as saliva.
Thanks Skeeweeaka
I was so looking forward to my 40's but except for the birth or my son at 40 and the first few years of his life, the rest has been the worse years of my life. I always figured it was peri/meno and tried to get through it and now starting on this thyroid/adrenal stuff is so confusing. But I keep saying to myself that I will get at a dose with this and all my hormones will make me feel great once and for all. Then I can help others.
I still have back issues and many people on the thyroid board said they had muscle pain, couldn't walk long distances, etc. and that it was related to the adrenals and once I get the right dose of that all my pain will go. But I'm really second thinking that. I do have slight scoliosis, DDD and 2 slight disc bulges. I'm going back this week for my 4th trip to a different physical therapy unit and after that I'm going back to the orthopedist and I think I will ask for a nerve block shot in my back. I read many people found relief for a few months but had to get repeats of it. If I have to do that I be free of pain when standing I'm going for it. I've had enough of the pain; it's ruining my life.
48 was not so great; but hoping 49 will be very very fine!
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