Hi everyone.  I'm new to this board, but already have been very encouraged by reading your posts. I have had a horrible few months, and am hoping some of you can help me put it in perspective.

I have been in self diagnosed peri for the last several years.  Since the beginning of this year, my periods have been reduced to one or two days every two months.  So I've been expecting the usual...hot flashes, sleep disturbances, ect.  However, those have not been a problem.  What I have been experiencing is "twitching" in various muscles.  It started in my eyelid, then blossomed to places like forearms, index finger, calves, ankles, even tongue and lips.  

Now the twitching has calmed down to some extent, mostly limited to one index finger, (which makes typing a challenge sometimes).  However, now the muscles in my shoulders, arms and legs constantly feel as though they've been overtaxed...like I had overtrained when I haven't done anything.  They don't feel "weak" exactly, just really tired.  To the extent that sometimes simple tasks like holding up a newspaper cause my muscles to burn.  And my back and calf muscles feel like they're constantly on the verge of cramping.

I went to the Dr. with these symptoms, along with the fact that i was overwhelmingly tired all the time for no apparent reason.  He was singularly unsympathetic, and in fact, after a blood chemistry test came back normal, told me that there was nothing physically wrong with me...that it was all in my head.  I was humiliated...and a little puzzled.  How could it be in my head if I could see the muscles twitching in my hand? I tried to broach the subject of menopause as a possible culprit, but he wouldn't even talk about it...I guess he had decided that I was a fruitcake and that was it.  He simply referred me to a psychologist for what he described as anxiety.

Anyway, after reading your posts here, I think maybe this could be something to do with hormones.  Have any of you had, or heard of, anything similar?  I plan to carry through with the psychologist visit, as I know I have issues that need work...but I'm having a hard time believeing that my symptoms are caused by simple anxiety.

Thanks for any information you can offer.

Tazz

Hi Tazz, its me GG, welcome to our world

You sound like you have done the right thing by going to the doctor and getting the right tests done.  Glad for you that everything is fine.But it isn't you don't feel fine, your feeling horrible and need to have reassurance that your going to be ok.  You definitely sound like your in Peri, don't know if you mentioned your age, (my meno memory Duh) but on Power Surge Main Page, you will find many many answers.  Dearest has listed the 30plus signs, symptoms of this time of our lives.I'm Post by 3 yrs(meaning I went 1yr with out a period)I still have many symptoms but they are finally lessening.  I'm taking vitamins & supplements and using progesterone cream. I do not use HRT(high risk factor)Plus, I did try it for 7 months last year for my bones, but my body couldn't tolerate it.  I take magnesium for the twitching, jumping muscles.It works hand in hand with calcium.I also have the Fibromyalgia, and my muscles feel like they've been over trained, over used as well, but this is also symptom of menopause.  There are so many gals here on these boards that you will find are just like you.  I believe that women help women, that men may think they know but how can they when they haven't walked in our shoes.  Read over the different threads, so much information.Sign up for the newsletter.  Come to the different chats.Dearest has guests that come for chats during the week, very informative.  We're all here helping each other, by listening, caring, offering suggestions, and being supportive.So I want to welcome you to powersurge, your gonna love it   :biggrin:GG

Tazz, welcome first of all.I,too, have had all of the things you described. I had a twitch in my left eye for a long time. Also had many of the muscle twitches you described along with the feeling of muscle fatigue.  Sometimes drying my hair was tiring.I had a battery of tests--all normal and after spending a lot of time here and reading books on menopause have come to the decision that everything is caused by fluctuating hormones.The best thing to do is to become your own advocate and educate yourself as best you can. I think it is a good idea to work on the mind-body connection with a professional also. This is a crazy process but it helps to learn it is crazy not you!!Good luck and start reading all the boards.  It is a wonderful group of people here.

Hi Tazz,Well another enlightened doctor out there I see. Grrrr what right does he think he has to treat you that way? !!Please find another one that knows about menopause. That is a symptom of  meno and will go away , but the ladies are right. You have to learn all about meno and kind of be your own doctor just like many of us have had to do. Lots of info on PowerSurge that should be able to help you. Take care and let us know how you're doing. hugs, jeanne

Tazz, Hi!!

Welcome and (((Hugs)))Sure sounds like menopause to me, my friend!!;)You have described me exactly....not too long ago!!  Those twitches, etc. come and go,....had them last week!!  The leg cramping, etc., etc.!! *Sigh*

I have other problems, like fibromyalgia....but what you are experiencing, can be caused by hormonal fluctuations!!  It's one of the main menopause symptoms....and can be a puzzle at best!!Your doctor.....grrrr....sounds like the one I had!!  Everytime I experience a new symptom, he'd just look at me, and say, "Are you under any unusual stress lately....like a fight with the husband??"Last time he said, that.....I told him, "Stick around, and you'll find out for yourself!!":angry:Your not a fruitcake, my friend!! You're menopausal!!

BTW....blood work for testing menopause, is not reliable!!  The hormones can fluctuate each time the test is taken giving misleading readings!!

Self diagnosing yourself.....listening to what your body is saying, is sometimes,  the BEST diagnoses!!

Best of luck to you and Godspeed!

((((((((((Hugs from a Canadian Gal))))))))                           Nancy

Hi Tazz,I agree with the other gals here.  I had those twitches too.  Eventually, they do decrease if my experience is any indication! :smile:If this is in our heads"wink", it's because we have to deal with idiots like your doctor who can't  say they don't know everything! I've had my times with those guys!  Now, I just say, "If you don't know -- that's ok, but please don't diagnose me with mental problems!"   So far, that's worked really well.  Takes them back a little because they think they can pass you off to someone else so it's not their problem anymore.  Then they can go on pretending that they know everything.  Trouble is, by the time you get through being told you're a mental case enough times, you do need therapy to realize you're not crazy!!!! :angry:Therapy for twitches!?!? :shocked:  I don't think so!!!!

Thank you all for your responses.  I'm so much more at ease now that I know I'm not the only one who has experienced these things.  You've given me back my will to fight, or at least to cope

Although I have not, and have no plans to, return to this doctor's office, I may need the therapy just to deal with the anger I've been directing at myself for allowing him to treat me that way :cheesy: .  

You are a wonderful group. I'm so glad I found you.

Tazz

Eileen, you make me giggle - "Therapy for twitches?  I don't think so!"  Hey - why not?!  They advocate therapy for every other menopausal ailment!  Doesn't that just make you want to scream that we are not back in the 19th Century?!?!

And Tazz,Rest assured, these women know what they are talking about!  Find a doctor who will take your symptoms seriously - they are not "all in your head" as your current doctor professes.  Meno has all kinds of bizarre symptoms.  Find someone who can intelligently discuss them with you - and not pooh-pooh you as being "nuts."  GG is right - magnesium and calcium will help the twitches -- I have "restless leg syndrome" at night - and know that it acts up if I don't get enough of magnesium (combined with the right dosage of calcium).  Can you locate a practitioner who specializes in holistic treatments?  They might be able to help your symptoms more than a medical doc, who is likely to prescribe drugs.

Good luck,

Hi to all: I am a new user, and am so excited at the info I've found in the last 2 days, that I've spent hours looking and reading until my eyes hurt!  I am new to computers,too, so forgive any dumb things I may unknowingly do.       I have been experiencing so many of the things that all of you write about, and thinking that I was sick with some awful new disease.  I can't tell you what a relief it is to finally have a reason for why I feel so bad.  Had all the tests done, of course they all are "normal", then my Dr. wants me to take Prozac!!  Don't Drs. get any training in diagnosing menopausal symptoms?!!!  My worst problems are terrible joint and muscle pain, the kind that won't even let me work, and the worst fatigue I've had since mono.  Also have had really bad internal shaking and attacks of anxiety and panic, gets really bad when I have to go to the Dr., which adds to my problems.  I should add, that I was treated for Lyme Disease several years ago, and alot of my symptoms are the same as I had with that.  Now I am starting to think  alot of it may be hormonal.  I had a hysterectomy when I was only 29, am 46 now. They left me 1 ovary, and I really have't had any problems until the last year.Now, the last 3 months or so have been awful!!  I talked with Pete at College Pharmacy yesterday, and he found a Dr. in my area who works with natural hormones, and is helping me with getting my levels checked, and on the right hormones for me.  I am so excited, I finally have hope that someone can help me!!    I am looking for anyone who has been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, that has had any relief after HRT.  I remember reading some comments about this, but I can't find them again. Also anyone who has fibro, and any other things that have helped.  Has anyone else out there noticed that most cases of fibro seem to come to women at about the same age, peri-menopause and menopause?  Does anyone know of any research or books addressing this?    Sorry for writing a book, it is just so good to have someone to talk to.  Thanks for listening!!!

        conejo

 

Hi conejo,Just great that you found this place. I know how you feel. The first time I was here I was so relieved. I had been feeling rotten and at last I had people who understood. I haven't been to Pete Hausman myself , but I have heard many good things about what he has helped the women here with. I hope you start feeling better fast:)I'm not well informed about the questions you asked ,but many women here will be able to talk to you about all this. I have been spared fibromyalgia and mainly deal with anxiety , hot flashes , and dizziness. Welcome and glad to meet you :)hugs, jeanne.

Hi jeanne and thanks for the welcome!    This is the first time I've ever "talked to anyone on my computer", and it's great!!  I am looking forward to making friends and learning as much as I can about this WONDERFUL time in our lives!!  Thank goodness for computers and friends!!  Will let everyone know how my HRT goes, hoping for the best,  since I think alot of positive thinking really helps!

  Thanks again,

   conejo

conejo, Hi!!Welcome aboard:)Nice to have you here!! Isn't it exciting we can communicate this way.....I know the first time I came on line....it was like a whole new world to me...still it:biggrin:

My suggestion is to check the topic here on this same board about "Fibromyalgia!!"  Many of us have it .....and there are some good stories there!!I've had it for years....I'm 56 years old now....but...I did have it long before meno, however, it became worse once I reached perimenopause!!My doctors, said the fibro, might improve, with menopause......I didn't find that to be the case!!  I'm speaking personally here.....as I'm a tuff case;)I was on many different HRT's over the years....only to make it worse....then again....that's me!!Please understand everyone is different, with different reactions to treatments!!  I've know some women have been helped tremendously by taking HRT!!

I think by going to Pete, was a wise move!! More women have success going that direction for answers!!

I've never had a hyster....but my journey through menopause has been a tough one!!  Some gals find they can make the journey a little easier than I!!Since I did have fibro, before....then, the hormone fluctuations of meno....perhaps that is why it's been hard for me!!

You've certainly come to the right place!!  There is so much here to read and learn.....(and I've checked out other sites...they don't compare).....I'm sure you'll find what you need!!The gals here, are compassionate....open and willing to share what they can;)Hope to get to know you better.....keep posting....keeping asking those questions that concern you the most:)

((((((Hugs from a Canadian Gal)))))))))               Nancy (a.k.a.Snowy)

Hi Conejo and welcome!I have had a similar history to yours.  I had a hysterectomy at 31 (left the ovaries) . I'm 541/2 now and am (according to my blood tests) post-menopausal.  I was given estradial 1mg. back in March and so far, have not seen any difference in the fibro. It's not worse or better.  Like Snowbird says "that's just me".  We're all so different and different things help all of us.  I did find taking Zoloft (which is like prozac) to help the achiness for a while.  It doesn't work quite as well now but it helps me not to get depressed about it as much.  I can get into a cycle of pain/depression/pain/moredepression when it goes on for a long time.Hope the hormones help you, hon.  I'm going to try it without for awhile to see if there was a positive difference.  Still haven't decided what I will do in the long run.Good luck!

Hi everyone,I am new to this forum.  I am delighted to have found this site.  It is comforting to know that what I have been experiencing is not  "in my head".  I experience muscle aches, joint pain in my hands, atrophy, brain fog and a strange crawling/chill sensation that creeps up my arms or legs.  Most people have hot flashes,  instead I get this chilling/goose bump feeling.  Has anyone else experienced this sensation?  My doctor gave me estace 1 mg every day, then provera 5 mg. for the last 10 days of the month.  (I cannot take a natural progestrone)  All of the above symtoms cleared with the exception of the muscle and joint pains.  These arrived in the 3rd month while taking the provera.  Has anyone experienced a correlation with the provera and muscle aches?  I did find that glucosamine has greatly helped my joint pains.  The doctor switched me to Femhrt.  Big mistake.  Now I am on Activella for 2 weeks now.  All symtoms have returned and have not felt any relief what so ever.  Maybe I am not waiting long enough, but shouldn't I not be getting worse?  

Thank you.  Cali

Welcome aboard Cali.  I have had that chilling feeling for years.  When I was younger it came just prior to my period.  At first it scared me until I kept track of when it happened and realized it was menstrual related.  I'd lie in bed at night and get this cold, chilly feeling between my shoulder blades.  It was like an internal cold, shivery feeling that no amount of blankets helped.  It was very strange, but totally hormone related.  I get it ocassionally now, but not as often.

Hi, I'm also new to the board and was wondering if anyone had muscle weakness.  I get weakness in my left arm and left leg right before my period and during.  I used to have numbness and tingling but that went away.  Thinking I had MS I went and had an MRI and thankfully it was negative.  This is driving me crazy.  Any Help?

my blood tests came out normal yesturday and i am relieved but my aches and pains are still horrible.  My jaw bone actually hurts.  I also have these searing pains in my muscles and crampy.    For me it is worse day 2-16 of my period.  I am only 38.  i still have periods but they only last three days.  Could i still be peri?

Hi mom, Hi Nina....

Thank goodness your tests were A-OK!  This meno stuff can be very frightening.

I, too, am having all kinds of muscle spasms and pain in my joints... and my jaw also hurts!  Mostly in the morning.  My husband says I'm not grinding my teeth, so it must be part of this meno stuff.  I'm 54 and about 9 months now without a period.... I think you stay in "peri" until you've made it a year without a period.  None of my "meno" symptoms showed up until about 4 years ago... and I think I've been through ALL of them!!  Sometimes I even think I'm inventing some new ones

I'm currently going through all the blood tests to check for scarey diseases.... so far, so good.  I've had some success with MSM cream at night.  I also understand that glucosamine helps some people.  I bought some JointFlex cream today, figure I'll try that for a couple of weeks.  I used to like going to bed at night... fresh sheets, nice smell, soothing light.  Ha!  Now my bedroom is loaded with stinky creams, heating pads, twisted sheets...  I think I need to get my act together and make this place look and smell pretty again!  (As soon as I get the energy.....

Enough of my ramblings... hope you both get over all this meno stuff in short order.  In the meantime, please know that there we're all in the same boat, so don't worry too much.  It WILL pass!

Enjoy life!matoakaAnyway

Hi everyone. It's been a while since anyone's written about their twitching...so I hope you are all getting better! I just started with the twitching. I'm 48 and definitely in peri. I never knew this could be a symptom. I'm hoping that's all it is because I keep thinking I have MS. I was just told I have to have surgery for 2 herniated discs in my neck that are pressing on my spine and ever since I got that news, the twitching in my legs, feet and back have not stopped. I was thinking it may be related to the discs, but why would I all of a sudden get it...unless it's stress. Have any of you been tested for MS? That's my biggest fear!

Hi jhall! I have had twitching, still do occasionally. Had a blood test and doc said no further testing was necessary (?) and that I was OK... Don't know what that means, but I'll go with the "OK" verdict any day! I've tried Advil and creams in the evening, plus massage.. some nights they work, some nights they don't. My best defense right now is an MSM cream called Artho Flex (over-the-counter at the drug store). It's loaded with herbs, plus Glucosamine and Chondroitin. I massage it into the surrounding tendons (behind my knees and around my ankles), and it seems to be effective for me. Maybe it's just psychological, maybe it's real. I can't say. But I do know that stress really increases the number and intensity of my episodes. So soothing teas and warm baths may also help. If MS is a real worry, talk with your doc. If you get this stress factor out of the way, then you'll probably feel a lot better. Remember that MS is rare and usually strikes younger people. Don't put all your eggs in this stressful basket if you don't have to. Take care, and keep posting! We're all with you. Susan

Susan, thank you so much for the encouragement and advice! I will definitely try the things you mentioned. I'm glad they're giving you some relief. I go back to the neurosurgeon on Friday, so I'll let you know what he says. It seems like every day it's something else in this lovely menopause journey

Hi Jeannie, I knew there was something really wrong when I started getting the twitching. Every muscle in my body (except my face) jumped. My back, arms, legs and especially the soles of my feet were really bad and I was very scared at the time. At this point I started to do a lot of research and went to many forums..luckily I found this one. I started taking Magnesium..300mg per day and I very rarely have problems with twitching now (I hope I haven't spoken too soon). MS and all kinds of diseases ran through my head(they still do sometimes) but I know deep down this is hormone related. Have the tests...speak to your doctor....you need peace of mind... Gez

Hi Gez: Thank you for telling me about the magnesium. I'm going to run right to the pharmacy after work and get some! How long did you have the twitching before it stopped? I'm glad you got relief!

Hi Jeannie, Get some chelated Magnesium if you can. I think it took about 6 weeks before my muscle twitches and heart palpitations improved. They are not really a big problem for me anymore although periodically I wil get the odd one or two. I'm having problems with fatigue again though. That frustrates me. Gez

Hi everyone. Now I'm totally convinced I have ms! Please, someone, change my mind! Practically every muscle in my body aches and is weak, I'm dizzy constantly, am twitching like crazy, have no memory, can't seem to concentrate, etc, etc. etc. I'm a mess. It feels like this isn't going to get better. Is there a blood test I should be having? I am scheduled for an mri of the brain on Dec. 30. What a way to end the year. Hope all of you are ok!

jhall, I'm sorry you're feeling so poorly, but please don't dispair. I have had all those "symptoms" myself... still do. Sometimes all at once! :mad: MS is very rare. It is doubtful that you have that. But if it will make you feel better, there are certainly tests you can take that will calm your concerns. Most of my twitching and squirming has subsided a bit. But a good old-fashion leg rub still feels great. I frequently rub some arthritis cream into my ankles and the backs of my knees and that usually allows me to fall asleep. Even though it's my muscles that are going crazy I find that if I "medicate" the surrounding tendons or ligaments I get better results. Some people do really well with magnesium supplements. The confusion and lack of focus has also been getting to me lately. Good grief!! I sometimes have to really concentrate just to drive 2 miles to work!! But I'm told this will also pass. Good luck with your MRI. I know this sounds dumb, but try not to worry too much. Worry and stress will just make your crazy hormones go wild. Take care! Spoil yourself a little... Susan

Thank you Susan. I can't even express to you how much you and all of the wonderful women on this board have helped me. My mind is still screaming MS, MS, MS ... but my nerves get calmer every time I come to this board. It's really a life-saver. I just hope I can help someone someday as much as you all have helped me! I went to the Dr. yesterday just because I felt so overwhelmed with pain and fear. I feel like I'm going to lose it. I've never been like this before in my life. I'm usually a very upbeat person, but I have really changed lately. The Dr. wanted to put me on Paxil or some other medicine. I'm still resisting it because I don't think I want to be drugged up. I may have to resort to that soon though. I think once I get the brain mri done and IF it comes out ok, maybe I'll relax a little. This stuff is all so scarey. The Doctor did tell me that she thinks all this is stress related because I have a lot going on in my life right now. I have possible surgery coming up and also will be moving in January. And she said being in peri-menopause just compounds everything! Sure hope this passes soon. I hope you're feeling better now and that you're having a great day! I can't wait till I can come here and tell people how I've beat this and maybe give some encouragement to someone else. Right now I don't feel like I could help anyone. :mad: Thanks again! Jeannie

Hey Jeannie! Every time you post here, you're helping someone else. Believe me. Just getting your feelings and ideas out there helps someone who is reading these boards. So you're giving of yourself even when you think you're at the bottom of the barrel. And I'm getting a sense of a real postive attitude from you - so I know you'll do well. And don't be too afraid of Paxil if you decide to take it. Every "body" reacts differently, but my doctor put me on a low dose for several months and I had no negative effects, except for some general body aches in the evening (which could have just been the menopause). And I'm not one to take pills if I don't have to. It really helped me get over a depressing slump. Take care and enjoy the season. There really is life on the other side of menopause. Susan

Thank you Susan! Have a wonderful holiday!

Jeannie, did you have your tests and how did they turn out? I have had all the same symptoms you were/are having, and a couple years ago I had the MRI done myself, and it was perfect. Just them 'ole meno pains. Just curious and hoping everything turned out good with the tests! HUGGERS! Kleeo

Kleeo: Thanks for asking! I've been meaning to get back on here and tell everyone that my MRI of the brain to rule out MS came back negative. What a relief! Still doesn't explain what the heck's wrong with me tho:( I do have bulging discs in my back and am also facing the possibility of surgery on my cervical spine for 2 herniated discs that are pressing on my spinal cord. The dr. says I could be paralyzed if I don't have surgery to correct this because if I fell or got in an accident, it could be terrible! So, of course, I'm all stressed out and tensed up about that too! Every muscle in my body aches, my legs are still twitching, etc. etc. ETC.!! But at least I don't think I have to worry about ms! I can be thankful for that! What are your symptoms? I hope you aren't suffering too much! Aren't we lucky to have our friends here? Thanks for caring!

Jeannie.. Great news! So glad to hear your test came out OK!!! Yahoo!!!!! Please know that your muscle aches and twitches are most likely menopause. I have them also. Some nights I feel like I've been hit by a train! My husband talked me into taking one Aleve every evening during these periods. And I am sleeping better,.... instead of waking up from the pain of just rolling over in bed. Hope you're feeling better real soon. And good luck with your back surgery... and KEEP US POSTED!! We're thinking of you! Susan

Hey Jeannie, GREAT news that the MRI came out well! I am SO happy to hear that....always good news, but still leaves us to wonder WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH ME! LOL....I know how you feel. I've been going through this NASTY thing called peri for let's see.....more than 4 years now? Ugh! Lately I've been so tired I can't get OUT of my way! ACHE LIKE CRAZY!! I too have the 'fatigued' feeling in ALL my body...legs, arms, etc etc, twitching here too! Dizziness, headaches, all the good things that everyone else seems to complain about! Guess the worst of it for me is I just DO NOT FEEL LIKE DOING ANYTHING! Laying on the couch 24/7 would be nice, but I can't do that. I sell real estate and can't put the clients on hold!! But I hear you loud and clear, and I know exactly how you feel. It certainly gets discouraging, doesn't it! Let's hope and pray that relief is JUST around the corner! Hang in there, and again, I am so happy to hear the tests came out in your favor! HUGGERS! Kleeo

Hello all~~Wow I was just reading through all your posts about the muscle fatigue and twitching..Im 50 and have had that on and off for years..just now realizing it is meno related. Right now I am having a bad flare up of the muscle stiffness..and now I am convinced it is hormone related. Haven't had a period since november and I think my hormones are very crazy right now. Isn't it something how many things this meno can do to our bodies. I've been like this before and it always passes so as of now I'm just riding out this crazy rollercoaster ride of whacko hormones!! Hoping each of you are feeling better..we'll get through it thanks to the support and good advice on this board..Hugs~~~

Just want to say that you are all such wonderful friends! Isn't it amazing how we don't know each other, but we FEEL like we do? Am I just being emotional because I'm in Peri-Meno.? I don't think so! I feel so lucky to have you all. Just wanted to say THANK YOU!

Jhall1, I was wondering if you still had the muscle twitching? I have it...not as bad as I was at one time but it is still there. I even get it in the tip of my tongue. I also have the weak feeling in my arms and legs. Of course all I can think of is ALS or MS. I went to the dr. who confirmed that I was in perimeno. Said my ovaries were shriveled up. (Just what I wanted to hear LOL) Hope everyone is having a wonderful day!!

Hi Everyone... Just read all the post and was wondering if someone can help me...I been having stiffness in my hands and feet...It seems when i sit for awhile and try to get up and walk my feet are so stiff... at first i thought numb but now im thinking more like stiff. I have to walk a few steps to get them normal again..Went to my PC ( no help) he sant me to Nuro. thinking it was something to do with that but she checked me out and said nothing was wrong...Had blood work done and i was thinking Lupus and freaked out...The test showed my ATA Toter was 1:160 and Homogeneous and speckled and they said that mght be caudint the muscles and joint aches,,so like i said i thought Lupus for sure but they said no cause my Sedimenation rate was 4... so i gave up and just gonna wait it out and hope and pray its just a meno thing...im 52 and no period since last Oct. So what do you gals think????? Thanks...Eeyore 5120@aol.com

I can identify with you. I've had quite a bout with stiffness during menopause. Tests came back negative. Same with some of the other women here. I'm chalking mine up to just one more symptom to deal with :mad: Aaaarrrgh! But it will end. I'm starting to feel better. Hope you do too, sooooooon! Keep the faith!

Hi Matoaka. Thanks for your reply...I think that i will just hang in there to...I never had problems with stiffness or anything like that but now....ugh forget it I have everything symptom of meno there is.. Just hope its not arthuritis ( sp) Guess we will all just have to s*ck it up and get through it...I even talked to my gyno and she didnt think the stifness was related to meno but what does she no anyways....us women no better right???? Take care....Eeyore