Ladies, I'm telling you, I feel I'm always afraid of one thing or another, and i never used to be this way, NEVER!
My latest "fear" is dying of cancer! But I know this is nuts! Yet, I can't shake this! I have a very good friend, who for many years, was a self-admitted hypochondriac, very fearful of anything that was happening in her body. WEll, now I have become her! I can remember her being very afraid of cancer, every little pimple, mark, mole, whatever, she was positive was cancer, or any pain inside her body, the same! Now, she's gotten better, and I've GOTTEN WORSE! ..lol .... that's the funny thing! She explained to me that, eventually, she just got tired, of being afraid. I hope that happens to me too!
The problem is, that you never really know if it's just peri, over amplifying things, over amplifying small fears into LARGE CRAZY OFF THE WALL fears, or if it's valid! I think this is why so many women run back and forth CONSTANTLY for tests, because you don't really know, is it peri, or is it real! This really stinks! I was told by my GYN that MOST of the time, it's hormones that cause the fear to be over amplified, and that usually, these fears are not really valid, which was good to hear, at the same time, you're sitting there alone at night, and your mind is going berserk, dreaming up every possible disease that you think you have, and are sure you're probably dying of it! OH, HOW STRESSFUL!

Does anyone else here go through this? That's why i posted on the AM I STARTING PERI forum the other day, an article I found online, talking about a woman and what she's going through during peri, not only physically but MENTALLY, it's a very good article ..... yes, talk about a "fear fest"!!!!!!!

laura: I think not only is it a common fear for menopausal women, but the fear of dying is universal to all people. It is, after all, the human condition. My own personal religious beliefs tell me that there is life after death...but like all human beings, I have moments of doubt. My favorite aunt summed it up best, I think...she told me that she no longer worries about dying---because if there IS no afterlife, we won't know it!

I've let the fear paralyze me at times. At some point, you have to either 1) make a leap of faith towards a religious belief that you accept as true or 2) just compartmentalize the fear and keep it as brief and limited as possible. In other words, distract yourself. No amount of fear will change what will ultimately happen to us...in fact, the mere negative energy from such thougts could in fact worsen our health. My logical mind tells me I have no proof of life after death, but luckily, I'm not made of pure logic. My heart and soul choose to believe otherwise. I'll leave it at that, because I don't want to engage in a discussion or controversy about religious beliefs (violation of the terms of service here.)

I guess all I did here was comment on my own beliefs. Fear is usually a zero sum game; it wastes energy, produces nothing, and drains us of our life-force. In other words, it's the enemy!!

Did I help you at all?

yes, yes and yes!! I have a huge fear of dying, but I always have..hard wired that way I guess. Our minds and thoughts can be very powerful. One of my doctors told me that stress and worry can and will actually weaken your immune system and compound whatever you are worrying about. I completely understand that thinking, but when you are alone with your thoughts, it is so hard to not be negative.

But you know, my Neurologist said to me, "you know I could walk out of this office and have a heart attack...so should I worry about that, too"? It made alot of sense, but for me I have to work on that on a daily basis...to stop always thinking the worst because the only thing it does is feed the fear more and then the whole snowball effect goes into place.

You are not alone, either...the best advice I got that maybe might be helpful to you is "we can't change what is going to happen so why worry about the "what ifs'? I was told to laugh, enjoy the day because what if I spent that time worrying about something that may or may not happen..and then my day is gone, right? I don't know if that was helpful or not.. I am not good at verbalizing sometimes..but I wanted you to know, I really relate to your fears and I guess we just have to keep the faith in the positive and try as hard as we can to just make the best of what blessings we have.

Sunny

I'm sure we can all relate to this feeling. But is just another negative thinking pattern that we get into, I do it myself. Although with the help of a few things I can combat it now. I have done the Lucinda Bassett program a few times. She has a book "From Panic to Power" that helps too. REALLY woke me up to how I was thinking about things, and here I was thinking I was trying to be more positive. I was on the outside and toward other people, but to myself gosh was I NEGATIVE. Always thinking the worst......Claire Weekes books are excellent also. These two resources plus a few visits to a counselor, helped immensely with my thought process. I still have my days but they are fewer, I just wish they were zero. But acceptance that I am a work in progress through all of this, is pretty freeing.

My counselor gave me this advice with regards to body symptoms, "when its something, you'll know it and go get it taken care of, in the meantime, go live life" this is advice she got from her own doctor when dealing with anxiety.

I agree with other posts, worry is like a rocking chair, you go back and forth, but never get anywhere.........Joyce Meyer quote.

Try to be kind to yourself and put up that stop sign to those thoughts and say "I'm not going there today" and get busy doing something else, seems to help me.

Enjoy

I know I can relate to this fear as well. It drives me up the wall. I get one little pain and I am in a total spinout. Shoot, even taking medication is so scary becasue I am afraid that I will be allergic to it and die and no one will be around to help. Lord I hate peri!

I did not know anyone else felt this way about medications, food, allergies, etc. Things I would do without a thought now give me pause. My fears range from Ovarian cancer( had 2 friends die) to lung cancer, I just quit smoking. I even cancelled a dentist appointment because of anxiety. I get so dizzy sometimes that I have to take a bath to relax, even in the middle of the day. This must ne hormanal as it is really bad only at certains times of the month. I have signed up for Yoga and am back at the gym this coming Tuesday. Maybe this will help! I hope so!
Louisa

In fact, I am considering having my ovaries removed because of OC risk. My Mom had BC( survivor, no chemo) anf that increases your risk I hear. Anyone had just their ovaries removed and how does it feel afterwards?

Provobabe: You'd probably have to pay for the surgery out of pocket...as a health insurance broker, I've seen only one case of an insurance company paying for prophylactic surgery and that was in a woman who tested positive for the BRACA-gene for breast cancer and had 2 sisters, both grandmothers and all her aunts die of it.

Also, more bad news...even if you have your ovaries removed, the tissue surrounding them can become cancerous. That's how my MIL died...it started as peritoneal cancer and spread to her ovaries...or vice versa, they're not sure which came first..

I'm not trying to rain on your parade; I've often thought, what's the use of having a uterus and ovaries after your child bearing years are gone...they just sit around waiting to possibly develop into neoplastic cells. Do you take selenium? Research has shown that cultures with a diet naturally high in this mineral have much lower incidents of ovarian cancer. Just don't go over 200 mcg a day. You can tell if you are getting too much selenium becasue you will develop white lines in your fingernails ("selenium ridges")...when I was menstruating I would get horrible ovulation pain--so bad I couldn't sit or walk. I would also frequently develop benign ovarian cysts (which harmless but very painful)...so a doctor told me to take selenium every day and my ovarian pain disappeared completely.

I am not afraid of death, because it's definitely going to happen to each and every one of us. Sometimes, I get so depressed, that I actually welcome the thought of dying, because I could just go to sleep and leave my life behind.

I live in absolute fear and horror of my children dying, though! To me, that is the worst possible thing that could ever happen! I would either kill myself, or go permanently insane, and have to be institutionalized with the violent psychotics for the remainder of my existance.

I'm also TERRIFIED of something happening to one of my children!! And the fact that I have six means the chances are greater...See how I think?? Sometimes I lay in bed for hours having these awful thoughts and different scenes going on in my head. I'll even tell myself (out loud) to STOP IT!!!! I'm like you...I just don't think I could go on living.

oh girls.......THIS IS AWFUL! I dont mean to come here and drag all of you down, that's not my intent...i guess I just need to vent, a place to go and have others relate! Thank you all for helping! It DID help! Yes, I know all to well the terrible thoughts that go through your mind when you are alone! My husb. insists that if I had more to do, and kept busy, I wouldn't be like this....BS! .lol...well, that's what i say! I've explained to him, that even if I did work outside the home, and was FORCED to think about other things, these thoughts would FORCE THEMSELVES in on me, they already have! I already DO try to keep myself thinking of other things, I go places, do things, and yet, IT DOESN'T HELP, those thoughts are always there, in the background, just lurking, on the back burner. I know you all know what i mean.

Now, my latest SCARE is this mole sort of thingy, on the back of my upper left arm. Now, it could have been there for a while, I don't know. It's not that big, like a pencil eraser, and it's a light brownish color, sort of roundish,....well, I saw it by accident the other day, all i can say is PANIC CENTRAL! I've been taking xanax like crazy just to deal with this. So I naturally did th stupid thing, and looked it all up on google...pics and all. I KNOW! But see, to me, the fear of NOT KNOWING is worse! I have spent HOURS reading, looking at pics, you name it, day after day, for the past couple of days....I don't feel like eating, (so i make myself eat something at least), I feel shakey, frightened, depressed,meloncholy, you name it! I've got myself dying here,of skin cancer! To be honest, it doesn't even look like any of the pics I've seen, and believe you me......Ive spent HOURS AND HOURS looking!!!!! Then, you find a site that says, it could start out looking just like a regular mole and you'd never know, till it's to late! OH GREAT, JUST WHAT I NEEDED TO READ.....now, i've got myself a dr.'s appt. for 2 wks from yest.....so, until then, i'll just FLIP! It doesn't bleed or whatever,,,,,it is slightly raised...i mean, geez......i can't get my mind off it.....I'M TOTALLY OBSESSING! i know i am....and i can't help it. Truthfully, if you think, you're "dying", well, what the heck else WOULD you be thinking of???????
Then today, my son looks at it for me, and says he thinks it looks more like a scab, but I didn't hurt myself, he says it looks like you could peel it off.....that would be more like that keritosis stuff i read about. He also said, it seems to have a VERY SLIGHT greenish "hue" to it.....so then, i PANICKED.! RAN TO GOOGLE....bad move.....bec. naturally, they had to add that in as one of the cancer signs!


so in the meantime, I was out walking my dog, and ran into this woman who lives on the road here, she has been a nurse for 400 yrs...! She said, that the greenish "hue" (very slight, I can't even see that!), could easily be from a fungus on a scab or a mole! HOLY ******* COW! well, at least that would be better! Sometimes that area of my arm, on the BACK of the arm, about maybe an inch up from the point of your elbow (if you bend your arm in half), stings a little, or feels slightly irritated, it aggravates me. Once in a while the mole itself can feel irritated....she said to me, that if a mole gets irritated, or trhe skin around it does, the mole itself will feel irritated too. Well, with everyone in my family looking at it all day long, it probably is irritated. But my point here is,.....had this been me, about maybe 8 - 10 yrs. ago, heck, even 5 yrs. ago.....I woudln't have been like this!!! NO WAY! I would have MAYBE thought about it, maybe been a LITTLE nervous, but for pete sake, NOT LIKE THIS! This is what I mean, at this point, due to hormones, we really flip out over things! You have yourself dying of all sorts of things!

well girls, i'm glad you're here! thank you all for responding! It's good to know you're not alone!

My Dr. suggested I be tested for the gene and I think I will. I will request the MRI instead of a standard mammogram though. My Aunt and Mom both had BC and only had radiation, no chemo and only the affected breast removed. My Dr says that is a good sign because should I develop BC it seems the non aggrssive form is what runs in the family. I am diligent about my check ups and never miss even one. I had a D&C and hystertoscopy 2 months ago to check for any abnormalities as I was bleeding heavily after a 4 month absence of periods. All was well. Did not think to ask Dr. if he checked ovaries or if that is even possible. I will say that last gyno appointment a year ago I was such a wreck that he gave me an ultrasound of my ovavries onthe spot! All was well, no cycts even. It is after seeing these 2 friends suffer so with this disease that I even contemplated this avenue. Both friends were from Mexico and did not have health insurance so maybe they could not get the medication or care that would ease their suffering. One of these women was my housekeeper and she finally went home to Mexico and died there last week. Dr. suggested I might contemplate the breast or ovary removal. I will ask him on the 17th at my next exam. Thsi intense worry will ease as it always does but I am a proactive person and am not at all adverse to having this procedure if it is feasable. I have good Health insurance, Thank God, and cannot imagine the health care system so many of our women friends in canada and the UK have to deal with. My D and C was 12,000 dollars so I could not begin to guess what the other operations would be! I think I will go to pharmacy tomorrow and get selinium. Thanks for the input, how ever discouraging it may be. This too shall pass.

Go see your dermatolagist. I go every year as I have spent many years under the Caribbean sun. I am a dark skinned red head who loves the sunshine but I am always checking my skin!!!!!

I would suggest going to the dermatologist or family doctor for checking it out, it might be nothing. Within the past 3 months I have had 5 moles removed from my body. My family doctor loves to remove moles, especially those that are raised. They all turned out to be just moles, but am glad I had them removed because some of them were irregular shaped, raised and black. I am prone to making moles, spent a lot of time in the sun when younger out on boats, beaches, etc. Am sure it is nothing. By the way, it does not hurt to remove them. He anesthetized the area and then cut them out. No pain whatsoever.

Thanks for all your comments as I also am going thru this, Im dying of everything went as far as to make sure all my personal things are in order wrote a letter and placed it in with the bills to my family to say if anything haopens to me here is the bill info and my life insurance info .. Not only am I exagerated in this aspect I also go nuts if my husband is watching tv with pretty woman I think he does not want me anymore and I start an arguement about that with him I know right at the moment when I say something Im wrong but yet I still cant control it. I feel like Im going crazy... thanks for listening and hopefully someone will be out there to say Im not alone in this issue. Im so glad I found this site it is a blessing to hear others feeling the way I do now if only I could get my husband to understand all this.

Yes, I just emerged from the year from hell, where I also was sure I was dying. I had fear and anxiety 24/7, a few ER and doc visits, obsessing about health.

Since starting on Estrogen, thyroid, and adrenal meds, it's all gone. I know it was due to imbalances in those things.

Maybe you could check into getting tested for hormone and thyroid levels.

I don't fear dying. I think it's the "not living anymore" part that really sets my teeth on edge.

My mum just died of pancreatic cancer and I just had one daughter last year have a hysterectomy due to cervical cancer. Another daughter nearly succumbed to a massive staph infection, and my father has survived in the last three years two strokes and a heart attack. We're a walking time bomb here.

I've resigned myself to the "dying" part of life, but what I haven't been able to deal with is the "what happens after?" Do you move on to another form? Is there some sort of heavenly body that takes you to a higher realm? Do you exist or do you cease to exist? I've never been very big on "stepping out on faith." Or does it come down to the simplistic in terms of "The choir place or the fire place?"

Like others on this thread...I fear losing a child more than anything. I cannot tell you how obsessive I've become that each daughter "check in" and let me know that they arrived home safely and without harm each night they work. (They find this a bit of a drag too ) I fear losing them and I know that I could NEVER or would NEVER be the same if ever faced with this. My desire (as I am sure is every parent's) is to go before them. When faced with "them or me," God, it's got to be me, doesn't it?

Still...I'm great with compartmentalizing. I don't exist..do I? Denial always works well!

Dear Krissy

So sorry for the loss of your Mum. Unfortunately Pancreatic Cancer is a tough one.Also it must be very difficult to come to terms with your daughter having the Hysterectomy because of her cancer.You sure have been through a lot so I think your extra vigilence with your kids health and safety perfectly understandable

However,I swear it could have been me who wrote the second half of the Post.I am a believer but I too get very stuck and anxious on where do we go after death.Sometimes this is very obsessive and do try to read something

inspirational and live in the moment but yes this question is very often at the back of my head

I know these thoughts did not really manifest so much before as they have now during my Middle Age.Just wish someone could come back and give us the inside information!

All the Best
Elizabeth

Dear'lann

It is important to be concerned about your health and have things checked out.Have a feeling you are going to be fine so please let us know

You should see my younger son's back covered in Moles of different sizes.The Doctor does check on them periodically as we live in a hot climate and he has lasered off a few that he felt were in places where they might be chaffed by clothing etc

God Bless
Elizabeth

I hope my post will be welcome. In the modern, technologically super advance world we live in, it seems we should have something more than pat theological answers to the toughest and most important questions about life...that is, death.

I realize that religious discussions are not welcomed here. There is nothing politically correct about religion, politics or the menopause but they still exist and I see there is discussion room for two out of the three here.

So here goes. Maybe this topic can be sidelined into the NDE topic. With all the people on this site, some of YOU had to experience an NDE (near death episode.) I am sure I am NOT the only one! I have had two such experiences....so far. Now I have read many peoples experiences, swallowed whole books on the subject endeavoring to find some commonality and there is some...but the simple truth is that everybody is an individual and so is their transition to the other life.

How do I know, I mean KNOW there is another life? Been there, seen it. Pull up the latest medical research about NDE's and you will see that the empirical evidence concludes that NDE and hallucinatinory behaviors are completely different. So don't let ANYBODY tell you an NDE is just a hallucinatory state the brain enters into to let you die easier. That's just ridiciulous. Brain dead people have NDE's and some of them have returned. If you knew where to look and since the media won't help you out here one iota, unless its superstitious nonsense, you cannot KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE have been pronounced clinically dead and returned not just hours but DAYS later. You can say all the video tapes are rigged, all the people were paid to lie. It's just not possible to turn that many tricks in any card game, people.

If you want to know, people have returned from the dead and continued to do so since the days of Lazarus. His death and return was ALSO documented. So let's have that clear before we go on. It happened, it still happens. Every doctor knows it happens.

In my experience, I can say that the transition is completely individual. For those that believe, there is an expected transition that follows. Jesus said that in His fathers house are many mansions. That means, many levels...people enter the after life into many levels of that mansion or after life depending upon their beliefs. There are certain things that will absolutely bar you from entering any of those levels because certain things you choose to do in life will absolutely separate you from God. Not by His choice, by YOURS. YOU ALONE determine your afterlife and nobody or nothing will determine it for YOU. If you choose not to believe in God or an afterlife, you have chosen to remain separate from God. That is YOUR CHOICE and GOD respects YOUR CHOICE. He will NEVER impose HIS WILL on YOURS. Get that?

Is heaven real? YES. It is EXACTLY TO THE LAST DETAIL as described in the Bible. To the letter. I saw it and it is exactly as described only far more of an experience than you can imagine. These physical bodies and earthly minds act as barriers to the spirit realm and we are experiencing only a very tiny percentage of what exists. That could be overwhelming but God has arranged your transition so that it is always gentle, peaceful, harmonizing, loving, safe, fearless and full of beauty. No matter the cause of death, you who believe will experience this transition in your own way. Some of you may be delivered to that life by the Angels that have escorted and cared for you ALL YOUR EARTHLY LIFE. YES, they do exist. IF you see them with your natural eyes, they will probably appear two dimensional.

Okay, is there anything that could keep you from reaching the believers afterlife? YES. Read the BIBLE and find out. These things may be addressed in other religions but I assure you, murder is a sure barrier. Hatred is a sure barrier. Unforgiveness is a sure barrier. Do not die in that state!!!! Whatever you must do, therapy or whatever, pass through this life in a clean state without hatred or unforgiveness buried in your heart. Let go of whatever offends you by making up your mind to do so and learn to PRAY. It's not very hard and it truly is the MOST EFFECTIVE tool we have in this life. Prayer and LOVE are unstoppable forces if applied diligently and regularly.

Is Jesus real? YES. I saw Him and spoke with Him. Is the throne of God and the New Jerusalem real? YES. It's all REAL just as described. I assure you, the next life is FAR MORE REAL than this one. You know there are times when you feel like you don't belong here. You feel disoriented. You feel like this body is not really YOU. Life doesn't make sense to you. These are REAL feelings expressed from the inner person, the spirit that is the power source of your existence. There is alot of relgiious nonsense and alot of lies about heaven and the afterlife...alot of creepy junk about who and what God is being propogated, some of its by teleevangelists, parareligious cults and nearsighted terrorists. When you don't know what you can trust or believe in anymore, sit down and pray BELIEVING GOD IS REAL and HE IS LISTENING. HE IS. He said "I AM." You can believe in Him and that HE IS WHOLLY GOOD. Everything about Him that seems wrong, unjust, cruel, unfair, uncaring and irresponsible is a lie propogated by your own sheer ignorance combined with the power of your enemy, the deciever. YES, satan is REAL. People blame God for everything wrong in life because of IGNORANCE. The more you get to know about HIM and to KNOW HIM through personal time alone with HIM, the more you will realize HOW UNJUSTLY HE HAS BEEN MALIGNED.

Okay, you want more details...convo or email me. This is as far as I can take it here.

Fear has severely sidelined me... I can't even go into my back yard by myself or into my fully finished basement... I don't understand it and have a problem living with it but I do every day. I wonder what it is about peri or meno that causes this, that changes the context of who you are as a person. I even wonder are some people more predisposed than others...

My fear of dying comes at night time when I can't be distracted by my dear daughter or the television set or something else... That is when I usually turn to the computer for distraction, otherwise, I lay there with heart palpitations and thoughts of not waking up tomorrow...which may sound harsh...but is rather soothing at times!

TJ

My heart and soul choose to believe otherwise. I'll leave it at that, because I don't want to engage in a discussion or controversy about religious beliefs (violation of the terms of service here.) Thank you Rob!

F,

I understand the reasoning behind your post and I respect you and your position as well as your experience in NDE's, however, I must say that I felt this post was merely more about "fear" and how it can control a person than it was about death itself. Fear of dying as well as fear of living for as one poster here stated, she was fearful of entering her basement or her backyard. Whilst all of us have our own "belief system," in place and what works best for us as an individual, I cannot help but believe that this post after reading it several times was more about fear of the unknown than it was about "religion" or "God."

It's in our most intimate peri or meno moments that strike the very fear into our hearts of "something awful" and "something irreversable." The panic that resides in us all when we realize that something is "just out of our control" and we must resign ourselves to it. I can speak only for myself when I say I AM A FIGHTER. I do not give up easily. My mum used to say I was a dreadful child and would fight until there was no fight left in me. I feel that "down deep" we are all this way and we fear what we cannot see or what we cannot control.

Faith...or even a "leap of faith" is individual. But I do not feel that is what the poster was asking for here. I think she's simply afraid...as we all are.

Those are my thoughts.

I have fear over everything. Fear of dying... fear of getting old, fear of being alone, fear that I will drive my fiance away with all my horrible peri symptoms, fear that I will allow myself to be totally absorbed by my peri symptoms that I will never feel normal again. Fear that I will never be able to have a child, and fear that if I do, will I be a good parent and get through parenting in my hormonal state.

These are the things that I think about when my mood swings kick in and I'm in a low mood.

If fear is your primary concern, here are a couple of suggestions:

Often quoted from Nick Nolte:

FEAR - False Evidence Appearing Real

Fear does not exist. It is a negative anticipation just as faith is a positive anticipation.

Until you provide fear substance it has no life. You create the life that gives fear an existence.

Often quoted presidential remark:

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself."

I add: "and fear is NOTHING. So there is NOTHING to fear."



I think the intense hormonal shifts and imbalances they cause in the body create instability in the serotonin level of the brain. That is why doctors are now treating menopause symptoms with Prozac, Effexor and SSRI type antidepressants.

The fluctuating and low serotonin state leads to anxiety and/or depression. You should treat it if you are finding it incapacitating.

STUFF THAT HELPS serotonin stabilize:

1) amino acids (inlcuding milk , eggs, turkey and fish)

2) daily consistent gentle exercise

3) B vitamins and calcium/magnesium on a consistent daily basis

4) soy isoflavones - found in soy foods, soy shakes, etc. on a daily baiss

5) deep breathing/meditation type relaxation, even warm baths

6) regular massage and chiro care (I think acupuncture or pressure would help also)

7) high vegetable diet with plenty of good protein

8) training yourself to think positively, assure yourself you are fine and everything is secure in your world, deactivting the power of negative thinking in your life (dismantling fear thoughts and refusing to dwell upon them)

9) regular prayer and meditating upon scripture

10) support from loved ones


FEAR IS NOT REAL. Until you give it a life IT DOES NOT EXIST. Remember that.

Dear Friend

Yes I would like more details please when you have the time.My email is conroyelizabeth@hotmail.com

God Bless

I really appreciate this thread as I have lived with this 'fear of the unknown' feeling ever since my daughter was born 8 and a half years ago...I suffered terrible post natal depression and know that my hormones were probably to blame.....I fear dying and death so much it is affecting my enjoyment of life....and that 'evening fear' and going into a basement when no-one else is at home feeling is also me!

But...reading some of these posts, like FROZEN TUNDRA'S and KRISSY K'S....I feel less anxious about it all.

My problem is I fear pain and suffering, as I am such a lightweight when it comes to illness, pain and discomfort....and I can't imagine what actual dying will be like...

I don't attend a church regularly, but I do pray, A LOT!

Caz

Let me tell you something, friend, it isn't death that is painful....living is the painful part.

If you have made it this far you have already endured a maximum threshhold of suffering physically that you can experience. You already know your comfort zone and pain limits.

Why do I say this?

My mom always said that suffering on the inside was far worse than any pain you could have on the outside. That is why so many people distract themselves with fear that something worse will happen to them. They conjure up fears of pain so unbeleivalbe that only horror movie makers could actually pretend to put substance to them. Every doctor knows that when the human body reaches its maximum pain point, the nervous system shuts off your consciousness. You pass out. You go into a shutdown state. This modern media and cheap thrills entertainment driven world has created a false identity for fear...and given pain power beyond its true capability. Pain is king in the acting world.

Tv movies show people gushing out fake blood from their bodies and rolling and crying out in horrible pretend pain. Real people in horrible pain either pass out or take medication. This has gone on since time began. Many used alcohol to deal with pain. There is no unendurable pain but there is plenty of conscious pain. I have had many relatives DIE now, some of them from cancer, some from cancer treatment, some from diabetes after having all kinds of body parts removed, some from old age, some from heart disease and NOT ONE OF THEM evidenced the symptoms that you see on the TV or in movies. Hollywood is a giant ridiculous propoganda machine.

I have known some pretty significant pain in my life. I passed out when it got too bad. I took medicine when it was relentless. I came near to death. I saw the other side in spirit. The only painful part of it was coming back here. LIFE IS PAINFUL. The process of dying is not as painful as the fear of the unknown. In fact many dying of terminal diseases tell you they reach a point of no more pain. They reach a point where they refuse drugs and treatment. IF they are in such terrible pain, why do they do that? God created us with pain limits and He knew what we could endure. It is not His job to see HOW MUCH suffering you can endure. I know some of you think those twisted thoughts. They are as much lies as the propoganda of hollywood regarding death ,illness and dying. They dont' make enough money showing people dying in comfort with dignity.

I suspect the majority of our pain in this life is others induced, self induced, ignorance induced: like refusing to change changeable circumstances or refusal to accept unchangeable circumstances. We are not able to distinguish how much of our pain in physical and how much emotional or psychological. They are related. Some would say the pain we perceive is perceived inside before it is known outside. I cannot tell you. I just don't know. People can tolerate alot more physical pain than they would believe but they also can shut out much more pain than they may be aware of.

You are thinking but I don't want to suffer. I've suffered so much in my life already. I just want quiet. I just want peace. I just want good fun and good sleep and relaxation and loving relationships. I just want strength and courage and hope. I want my loved ones to be safe and live healthy forever. That's all. A hundred years from now, I just want my life to end really well. That would be enough. That and seeing those last six places I have yet to see. That and writing that novel I always wanted....or painting that masterpiece or succeeding at this business. Having those grandchildren or that retirement place. You have alot of wants, really, they are maybe crowding you. Sit them all down and look at them honestly, write them down and make a list. Circle the ones you absolutely would not be happy without accomplishing before you pass out of this world. Let the others slide as "maybe's." Now start working at that list by organizing it in priority sequence and making each of those things come to pass inasmuch as you are able, one at a time. I would pray about it.

Maybe you need to make this list each day so it is more real and workable. Maybe the top of your list tomorrow will be, "Today I just want to finish this book I've started reading 100 times over the past five years." The best thing you can do to fear is ignore it. It's easily done because it never exists until you think about it.

shalom

Oh yes mydarling, the fear fest, boy have I sat and indulged at that table. I just want to know one thing here. Why does it have to be FEAR that we are so consumed with. Why not be consumed with thoughts of HAPPINESS....BLISS....COURAGE? Can't we just get stuck in a rut of EUPHORIA? Why is the universal feeling during this time have to be FEAR.
If we are going to go "crazy" with the imbalance, can't we just be crazy with peace and focus and a permanant smile on our faces? My mom was a special ed teacher for 35 years. I grew up around kids with special needs and Down Syndrome. You know what I noticed the most about those kids even at my early age? They were always happy about something. They smiled non stop. They loved unconditionally. They had the faith of children looking forward to Christmas morning.
As an adult I still think about the mentally challanged and wonder, who really is challanged here. I think it is ME.

Beautifully written my dear friend.Thank you.It gave me a feeling of peace and am thinking alot about what you wrote.I also find Prayer helps.

God Bless
Elizabeth

Well tonight I'm going to offend...probably a whole lot of people. I would hope not, but this particular thread...is really pi$$ing me off. And after a day like today, better hold on to your boots and socks and pull!

First...I am a registered Nurse. I was educated in Ireland and top in my class. I was offered a chance to come to the US and work after three years of working in Ireland, and jumped at the chance. I spent 12 years in the Emergency Room of a Level One Trauma Unit, and then the next 5 in Hematology/Oncology where I saw the worst...of the worst.

I just lost my mum in September of last year to pancreatic cancer. DO NOT get me started on the horrific-ness of this particular cancer. My mum used to describe it as "an animal eating you from the inside...out." She waited until the pain was so bad she could no longer stand it before she sought help. By that time, the tumor in her pancreas had metastisized to the liver, bile ducts, stomach and most remaining organs in the abdominal area. Basically she was doomed...but she NEVER complained nor did she ever pass out. I went one time to the store for groceries only to return to find her writhing and screaming in pain for her pain medication had run out...but she didn't pass out. She didn't stop asking for medication either. Until her very last breath found her clinging to her own sister in agony, and in death...she begged for medication, as well as for mercy. The medication WE provided. The mercy was not up to us.

I am also the victim of a horrific crime (and never knowing how much to reveal on these threads about ones self...) I was stabbed 17 times at the ripe old age of 25 and left for dead. Oh, and I was also 2 months pregnant. I received 6 stab wounds to my chest alone causing a spontaneous pneumothorax as well as damage to my breasts. (I would never breast feed another child). He then drove the blade thru my left arm...into flesh, muscle and bone and out the other side where he drove my arm (that I was hitting him with) into the wooden floor below. (I am left handed) After the rape, he flipped me over where he stabbed me 6 more times in the back, one breaking my collar bone as well as another costing me my right kidney. One stab found it's mark by cutting the back of my leg muscles so that I couldn't run and rendering me helpless...but still I fought. I (the authorities) said 17 stab wounds but who is to know for sure how many? I nearly lost a thumb, an ear, as well as many swipes and scrapes along the way. I coded (lost a heartbeat) twice before they got me loaded into the Medi-Vac Helicopter. Sounds like something out of a "movie," doesn't it? But this was real. Still...I saw NO "bright lights." NO "voices guiding me." NO "tunnel" in which to flow thru. I saw "NO "divine being," but NO "hell" either." I simply saw...nothing. I described it as..."Nothing, really?!"

So to say that people "pass out from the pain," I've not witnessed it neither as a nurse nor the patient. You simply endure it and press on. You don't ask why nor what can I take for it...you simply wait it out, and it passes. I equate my stab wounds to labor pains. They came in waves and I took each one as they came. I saw this in my mum as well. She endured each one over and over and over. (She and I both had babies naturally that weighed well over 10 lbs)

Did I see a divine light? No. A bright spirit? No. A message or relatives from beyond? Uh, no. Did I see or have any message I could bring with me after coding twice and having neither blood pressure nor pulse Ummmm, not really accept...

Each of us want control. Not just over our lifestyles but also over our lives. We want to die when WE say so. We want to religuish ourselves when WE want to. We want to live until WE say we're done, because we are creatures of this type of thinking...and we are bound to it. So to say that "This is happening or that is happening," would not be quite accurate. I think we need to put a finer point on it. We fear what we do not know nor understand and it's different for each of us. The moment you think you've got it all figured out...it will change. The best thing you can hope for is that you'll be ready for it when change, comes your way. But most of us are not, which is why we're often so scared. Hello??

Wow,

reading your reply was like reading something that people describe out of a Stephen King novel or watching full session of Oprah. I must say your experiences are unique, horrible and incredible. I want to be sensitive to your pain and your suffering so I hope nobody felt I was making light of THEIR pain or suffering. It surprises me that as a nurse, you have NEVER seen anyone pass out. Both my sisters are nurses and I, having never been a nurse, have witnessed other people as well as myself passing out from PAIN. When the brain recieves far too many signals from PAIN, SHOCK or LOSS, what does it do? What happened to YOU when you coded? Were you conscious when the BLACKNESS occurred? Most people that BLACK OUT are not conscious so that must have been very interesting for you.

In this generation, I honestly think I've encountered more people who are TERRIFED of what COULD be after death than of what MIGHT NOT BE. But I must say your experiences with pain indicate that you do not pass out even when suffering horrible and that your mother is the same way. Perhaps it is the difference in nervous systems. I spent a day every week for months at a nursing home last winter and never once heard screaming, saw writhing in pain or any such overt symptom of horrible suffering. I suppose if you worked in a TRAUMA unit, you would see ALOT of that. Two of my sisters worked as EMT's and I heard far too many of their dreadful stories. Both of them also worked YEARS in nursing homes where people generally end up before they die now. I never heard but ONE story of screaming or writhing in pain including the cancer, diabetes and alzheimer stories. I am going to have to do more homework here because I do not wish to discount your obviously valid and horrible testimony.

Do you think that the majority of people die in terrible suffering? Could you answer that question based upon your nursing experience? Have you ever heard stories of people speaking of their "spiritual experiences?" during all these years in the medical field. What did you think of those experiences?

I am so sorry for the terrible suffering you have endured and endured AWAKE! Do you think your experience is a common one? How about your mothers experience? Personally, I think Oprah would be very interested in you and so would any author out there trying to find movie material. You've got in in SPADES, girl! You could only endure such trauma if you could handle the whole rehash as well as you have presented it here. That is not facetious BTW. As a writer I state you have seriously LEGIT material there.

To just jog back quickly to my sisters who have both been in nursing home work for over 20 yrs and nursing for 10 and 5 yrs each, (EMT work aside from that) they have related to me that people with strong religious convictions nearly always die in peace, regardless of the condition they die with. On the other hand, I have heard my sister relate ONE story of a very old woman who had NO religious beliefs and was anti-everything spiritual. This woman should have died weeks earlier as she had deteriorated to NOTHING. There was literally nothing left of her but a mere shell. She could neither eat nor drink. She tried to stay conscious ALL THE TIME and they often heard her screaming especially as she drew near to death. She would writhe and SCREAM in TERROR because she had NO PEACE. It was not physical pain but spiritual TERROR she suffered with.

Many people who pass out of their bodies describe a darkness, a dark tunnel or complete oblivion but they are quickly back to their conscious state. IF you have a scientific mind and wish to stay open to empirical evidence, I suggest you ask GOD for proof that an afterlife exists. Of course, if you don't believe there is a GOD or AFTERLIFE this will prove challenging but let's say you just openly speak to the skies above your need to know as a request. Not angrily but respectfully and repeat it every day until you are absolutely convinced one way or another. Are any of you up to that challenge? What do you have to lose? Do it when NOBODY is around and NOBODY will think you are a nutcase. But dont' do it half heartedly. Do it with the same determination and conviction you do the important thing is life with. Mean business!

I challenge EACH OF YOU who is unsure to do this. Make it one of those goals you will accomplish this year. If somebody told you there was a beautiful ocean a thousand miles from your doorstep but you had never seen it nor anyone who lived in the same area as you had seen it, would that make the ocean disappear? Only from your minds but not in reality. Reality is not something you created but something you were created within. It grows with you.

FT,
I'd be afraid to ask God for proof there is an afterlife for fear He would cause me to have my own NDE, which means I'd have to either die outright or be close enough to have the NDE

I have to add 2 stories to this thread....they werent a NDE but one day when everything in my life was going so bad......I ask God to show me proof that he was with me and when I went outside (it was March and about 10 inches snow on the ground) they was a beautiful white rose on my rose bush.......the rest of the bush was still brown but there was the one single rose........other time was when I was pregnant at 36yr which wasnt a plan for me........I was lying on the couch questioning what to do about this unplanned baby and feeling so alone.......I then felt arms wrap around me and hold me......it was the strangest thing that I have ever felt but after I felt at peace.........Valerie

I also have a story to add. When my son was 4 he had to have a major operation a Sick Kids Hospital in Toronto. I was so afraid for him, and was beside myself with worry.I prayed so much that he would be OK. During the operation, my daughters and I went to the food court . I couldn't relax and was a nervous wreck. I was looking around at all the people there and that was when I saw my father sitting about 3 tables from us. He was smiling at me and nodding his head. I turned to tell one of my daughters and turned back and he was gone. The strange part is that my Dad had died 2 years previous. I was immediately filled with peace and knew that my son would be OK. I called my Mom right after and she wasn't surprised at all. She said he was there to comfort me. I've thought about that day many times and wondered if my mind was playing tricks on me , due to the extreme stress, or maybe it was just a coincidence, and it was someone who looked just like my Dad. But I know it was him. Because of my religious upbringing I do believe in the afterlife, and for me seeing my Dad confirmed it even more.

I'm not a religious person persay and have struggled with "is there after life or nothingness" for a long time. But something happened with my dad that leads me more towards eternity than nothing.

As he lay dying from kidney fail and was just home from a particularly horrific day of dialysis, I walked into his room to check on him and he was speaking to someone, loud and clear.

As I drew closer, I heard him begging to go home as in "Lord, take me home, I'm ready, pleae Lord, take me home..."

And this was a WW2 vet who never went to doctors, and went to church as a favor to my mother but he did love Billy Grahmn so there was a spirituality, just not the fire and brimstone type.

He was as scared of death as anyone I have ever known but the conversation I witnessed proved to me he had accepted death and was going home

I just went through the same experience recently with a great grma on hubbie's side and she was a 4 day a week Catholic attendee. She too spoke to "others" in our presence shortly before her death, telling "them" she was coming...

Two different levels of devotion with the same request....makes one think, does it not?

A few years after my dad had died, my dear uncle (and dad's best friend) succumbed quickly to pan cancer. Uncle Tommy was a pipe smoker so the smell of his tobacco was emblazened in my brain. I was missing them once quite badly and sat down to write a poem to get my feelings out. As I wrote, the smell of Uncle Tommy's pipe smoked filled the air.....

Some drudged up brain release? I like to think it was a message from the best of friends they were ok.....