Has anyone out there found any non prescription herbal, stuff that actually works? Have had bad insomnia for about 2 years, since my periods stopped. It is worse some times than others, but getting really desperate at the moment, as my husband and I are in seperate bedrooms at the moment, and just feel it will never get any better. I have tried seeing a homeopath and a herbalist, both of which were very expensive. So if anyone has found anything that actuall works let me know, I am in UK so would have to be something you could get on line. Have just tried going for a walk every night, and am going to my GP next week so will see if I can have my Cortisol tested, as someone mentioned that. Don't seem to have any other symptoms really apart from insomnia, but it is really making me depressed, so any suggestions please.

Hi Sleepyhead,
A warm bath with bubbles and lavender, Sleepy Time tea W/Valerian and a boring book.

PS. Excercise a few hours before bedtime helps too.

Good Luck!

Hello Sleepyhead,

I know exactly what you mean! I am also in the UK and also really stuggling at the moment. I think cortisol plays a big part for me because my sleep patterns really follow my stess load, I just can't seem to switch off when I have a lot of deadlines etc. I have found that 'nytol' helps a little, and when I was taking magnesium I was a little more relaxed, I have been poor at taking it recently.

What really works for me is watching TV in bed, the more banal the programme the better, I finally switch off! Unfornately this is difficult with a sleeping husband next to me who gets stroppy if his sleep is disturbed.

Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction.. Find a course offering in your area. If you can't, get the book, "Full Catastrophe Living" by Jon Kabat Zinn. Read the chapter on Sleep Stress and do the Body Scan if you can't do anything else.
Avi

I gave up on natural, and started taking a pharmaceutical. I take Ambien CR. I am a life long insomniac, and it's the only thing that gets me some sleep. I can eat a garden full of valerian, melatonin and any other herbal. Gallons of warm milk, alcohol, marijuana, soft music.... NOTHING! I was still wide awake.

I need the strong stuff to knock me out.

You might want to look into inositol. It's in the B- vitamin family. Here on the PS main page under recs. it's listed as "nature's tranquilizer". (A guest on a popular talk show here in the US mentioned that she takes it for insomnia).

I took rx Ambien when I was really desperate. I had tried lots of natural stuff like Armadillo's post mentioned and none of it worked. Ambien was the only thing that helped....HOWEVER, I had horrible withdrawal side effects after using Ambien long-term that really scared me. Because of this, I will never take anything prescription for sleep ever again.

I researched inositol and it seems to be fairly safe. I'm considering getting some (it's available in tablet and powder form here in a vitamin chain store) to use on an as-needed basis -only when I've had several nights in a row with very little sleep. I think it's the only natural thing I know of that I haven't tried for sleep. Well, that and marijuana

Thank you for this resource. I am at my wit's end. I have officially tried it all and nothing has given relief. Going on around this vicious cycle of sleeplessness leading to anxiety to more sleeplessness for over 2 years had driven me to despair. What made this so interesting is learning to mindfully accept the moment which in itself offers relief.
I love this group and am so thankful.
Marion

Marion, I feel for you, I have had bad sleep for the last 4 years, but to give you hope, it has improved in the last year and even though I have recently had a spell of total insomnia (see thread '7 nights without any sleep')......I changed a few things I took/did and it finally subsided.......since then I have had the BEST sleep I have had in 4 years!!!!

This is what I changed, so any one of these components are working for me - not sure which one, but am not willing to give any of them up to find out!!!

1. Started taking 2,000mg of Vitamin C daily
2. " " high potency vitamin B complex
3. 1 tbsp Omega 3 (liquid form) oil..BEFORE BEDTIME (this is important timing!)
4. I meditate 1 or 2 times daily (I began a class just recently)...has made me calmer!

I also have adrenal issues, so these vitamins are essential for recovery too (high cortisol at nights = no sleep!).

I too was despairing, so am trying to 'go by the book' recommendations.....maybe you should get your adrenals tested?
I have Dr. James Wilson's book 'Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st century stress syndrome' which is a great help.

Hope some of this helps! Good luck!

caz

I just realized that for the past few months. I have had only a few restless nights. The rest of the time I sleep like a log. A year or so ago, I was lucky to get a good night sleep every 3rd night. What's new? Well, I started taking DIM and it appears to have balanced out my hormones. I have very few hot flashes. only rare mood swings and my insomnia is 80% better. I do take Unisom at bedtime, which I have done for years so I can't believe that is suddenly doing more for me than it had before. I'm convinced its the DIM.

What is DIM?

I've researched inositol also and it looks promising but I'm so tired of wasting money on products that don't work for me. Now that I'm on unemployment, I can't afford to buy unless I'm fairly sure it will work......So!--You go first!
Let us know how it does for you!

Hi:
Just wondered if anyone had been prescribed trazadone for sleep and had bad muscle aches and spasms from it?

Since January I have suffered sleep problems...waking at 3:00 and 5:30 am, sometimes waking up to 4-5 times a night. Use to be that I fell asleep pretty easily but that changed about a month or two ago. I have been seeing a naturopath to try to tackle from a different angle.

A 24-hour adrenal test showed high evening cortisol levels and low morning levels, which my naturopath said is partially responsible for my sleep issues. I am taking Inositol (B8 family) and tonight, after reviewing the test she gave me Phosphatidylserine (100mg) to take 2 hours before sleep, and Biotin 5000 to take with breakfast. Her recommendations concur with that provided by the lab (Diagnos-Techs: 199.00 for the test).

We'll see if that makes a difference.

Additionally, they recommend mild to moderate aerobic exercise, meditation or other relaxation technique, and an insulin friendly carbohydrate-to-protein balance.

Hope this helps.
Sue

jpie,

I was prescribed Trazadone for sleep but didnt have any problems with muscle aches or anything with it. The worst is the cotton mouth it gave me. It helped me get to sleep but didnt keep me asleep. Dont know if anything ever will till the hot flashes subside. The most I hope for is to get back to sleep after having one wake me up and it seems thats the most any sleep meds Ive tried so far have done.v My norm is to wake up every 1 -2 hours, get a flash and have to pee. makes me crazy.

Every once in a blue moon I might get 3-4 hours straight but its rare. I also try not to take anything more than 4-5 times a week cuz I dont want to always depend on sleep meds and how will I ever know I can sleep without them if I take them every night ya know?

Anyhow good luck to all of you and most of all......I hope you all have sweet dreams

Sorry about the hiccup with the last post, i got cut off.

I am having exactly the same problem, I wake every 90 minutes, have a flash and need to pee. It is exhausting. Most sleep aids like melatonin and valerian give me horrendous nightmares, others give me that really dry mouth. One thing I have had some help from is bach flower remedies, either rescue remedy or the new rescue sleep remedy. They don't knock me out but I get off to sleep easier and after getting up in the night I go right back to sleep. It isn't a cure but it has improved things and there's no harmful chemicals. It's cheap too as it lasts a long tiime.

rhodie,

Thanks for the info, Ill look into that. Theres alot of herbal stuff I cant take because I have hepatitis C so my liver cant have to much stress and I always have to do alot of research before trying anything.

Helen

Has your husband watched you sleep at night? Many women going toward menopause develop sleep apnea. This is where you stop breathing and then gasp for air. You wake up many times during the night, but most of the time, you won't even realize it. Someone needs to watch you sleep. If you are waking up over and over, then you never feel "rested."

Aside from that, liquid magnesium and calcium helps. Grandmother in days of old used to give a warm glass of milk to anyone who could not sleep. (magnesium and calcium...LOL!) It is cheap to try...

Shebee

WHat is DIM???????

I have had SOME luck with vitamin D3 and magnesium/calcium before bedtime.....but it also depends on my stress level....if its high then I have a rough sleep regardless.

But it has improved quite a bit, so try it and see.

my cousin told me seroquel made her sleep, my doc gave me samples, i cannot afford it........started out with a baby dose of 25 mg, i was snoozing within 20 minutes, yet it does wear off quickly, i am sticking with 50 mg when in desperate need of sleep and wow do i sleep!. Trazadone also wears off, my dad is on it, and they keep upping the dose so he sleeps all night

I think the non-prescription herbal stuff works - but it depends on your system, what works for one might not work for another. Kava sort of works for me. I also use a ChiliPad because changing the temperature of the bed really makes a difference in the amount of sleep I get.

DIM??!!

DIM is a supplement which is said to help regulate the balance of estrogen and progestrone in our bodies. It really should be taken w/Calcium D-Glucate (sp), there is a product right now that manyboys showed me, and it is called Estrosense. It has the DIM w/Calcium D-Glucate, w/milk thistle (which helps the liver)... Manyboys has taken it for while, I for one just started it. But like w/all, some ladies have had great success, while others are not too sure. I think there might be an adjustment period since it removing the excess estrogens in our bodies, and the liver is what is processing that. So it may for some make us a little malaise in the begining.

Check under Alternative Medicine Forum, we have been discussing for about two days now...

Thanks. Beck...

Hi Sleepyhead .... I love that name, that is ME!!!! well, i haven't read the other replies yet, but for me,...Melatonin seems to ACTUALLY WORK! I know ........ but it's true ... now, I am NOT saying it's THE answer, nor does it work every single night ... but, i would have to say, it DOES make me tired, and drowsy and I do fall asleep!!!!!! I have noticed that when I take it, it makes my sleep deeper and i seem to sleep a little longer.....so ....... GOOD LUCK!

We have all tried so many things for our insomnia. I have tried countless herbal supplements with limited success. Many of the herbs that work for one person, seem to have the complete opposite result for others. I have recently found a Chinese herbal supplement that seems to work for me. I have never had trouble falling asleep, so that isn't a problem. It is the waking several times a night that exhausts me and makes the night seem so long. The Chinese herbal supplement I have been using doesn't necessarily make me sleep longer but the quality of my sleep seems so much better. I feel like I have been asleep. The one I am using is ClearSleep (by Green Medicine I think). The distributor may be different in other countries. I am in Australia and get them at the health food store. You can also get them online. You have to take them 2 or 3 times a day and they are supposed to help balance your ying and yang. I take 2 tablets twice a day and I really think they help. If you haven't tried it, give it a try.

If melatonin worked at least somewhat, but gave you strange dreams, consider the possibility you are still having estrogen surges.

For that, daily high fiber diet and daily exercise helped me most. Melatonin will lower circulating estrogen so it helped me some also, but so did avoid estrogen like meds (pepcid was my nemisis, turned out).

Ambien triggered depression for me, as did trazadone (no sleep, either.)

Really, lifestyle stuff helped the most. Took a few weeks, but it did help.

ok , so we all have issues ( to say the least ) with sleep ( or lack there of )

some stuff works and some stuff dont ( as far as getting to sleep or staying asleep once you get there )

what i want to know is , what the heck do you do at 12:57am ?

-i cant run the vacuum cleaner as family members who can / are asleep would ring my neck
- only stuff on television is info-mercials ; lord knows i dont really need a george forman super griller machine , nor do i need a $300 line of make up that if i call now the company will double my order for free as long as i pay the extra shipping and handling
- i tried to learn how to knit , used a kit for " children 8yrs old and up " couldnt get it right , was throwing yarn in one direction , needles in another and saying things not real nice about childern 8yrs old and up ( same goes for crochet too )
- i love to read but one can only read so much , the ladies at the local library know me by first name im there so often


so ? for the next 3 hours or so ( until i fall saleep for a couple hours ) , what am i to do with my self ? ( now , now - be nice ) any suggestions

be well & enjoy the rest of the day
- mic

ok , so we all have issues ( to say the least ) with sleep ( or lack there of )

some stuff works and some stuff dont ( as far as getting to sleep or staying asleep once you get there )

what i want to know is , what the heck do you do at 12:57am ?

-i cant run the vacuum cleaner as family members who can / are asleep would ring my neck
- only stuff on television is info-mercials ; lord knows i dont really need a george forman super griller machine , nor do i need a $300 line of make up that if i call now the company will double my order for free as long as i pay the extra shipping and handling
- i tried to learn how to knit , used a kit for " children 8yrs old and up " couldnt get it right , was throwing yarn in one direction , needles in another and saying things not real nice about childern 8yrs old and up ( same goes for crochet too )
- i love to read but one can only read so much , the ladies at the local library know me by first name im there so often


so ? for the next 3 hours or so ( until i fall saleep for a couple hours ) , what am i to do with my self ? ( now , now - be nice ) any suggestions

be well & enjoy the rest of the day
- mic

uh-oh

sorry 'bout that , guess i got trigger happy and ended up double posting

be well & enjoy the rest of the day
- mic

MIC
I could have written your post! I have the same problem..... I find that I just go and lay on the couch, even though I'm not sleeping. Then I just stew about it. I hate watching TV and am not much of a reader. I have tried those things but having the TV on or the lights on to read only seem to make me wider awake! I have heard that old black and white movies are great for late night viewing when you can't sleep. I'm only getting about 4-5 hours sleep per night and wonder if I will ever return to normal sleep habits!

For me, I play alot of computer games, either online word games or Adventure,mystery, detective or horror. You may want to try something like that, the Nancy Drew games are alot of fun and usually have some good puzzles in them.

Ive always played pc games but since Ive had these "mentalpause" sleep issues they really come in handy.

Actually I have found something that works.I got it on Prescription from my Doctor.It is call Stilnox.Now of course I do not wish to get addicted so only take it when I really need to.
Sometimes I will break it in half and that works too
Sometimes I say to myself"What the Hell,if I get addicted so be it!As I cannot lie here every night waiting for sleep that does not come'
Anyway at least I will not dread going to bed and maybe this Med. will break the cycle till my body remembers it should sleep at night
I have tried all the Herbal supplements known to man!Zilch!

So Good Night Sleepy Heads
Insomnia is a tough one.

God Bless
ekizabeth

Hi Ladies.... this lack of sleep thing, I just can not take it anymore....I was such a sleeper until January 2009, then EVERYTHING changed! Seems that I have tried everything from Lunseta, Ambien, Klonopin, Trazadone, Amnio Acids, Herbal Supplements and nothing really seems to work. Seems like I spend most of my time weaning/withdrawing myself off meds that don't work or stop working. I have even been working with a sleep psychologist using sleep restriction therapy and it's not really working. The therapy in itself is very stressful because I have to force myself to stay awake until the wee hours. If I relax I start to doze. Then when I can go to bed, I lie awake waiting for sleep. It just doesn't happen for hours and I finally end up on the couch. How can one be sleep deprived and yet not be able to sleep? I am still able to function on the 4 or 5 hours that I finally get each night but barely and I really dread the evenings and nights. Am I going crazy perhaps? Does anyone else expreience the same sleep issues? How are you handling the lack of sleep? Guess I could go back to the Klonopin but then the sleep is maybe 6 hours and then there is the dependence/addiction problem. Just wish I could find something that would work for even just a little while.... Would appreciate any advise or just knowing that I am not completely losing it...... Thanks!

I suffer 'intermitently' with insomnia, which is the most frustrating thing......I can go several nights with 8 + hours, then I revert to almost total insomnia or lying in bed tossing and turning all night with light dreams. After over 4 years I still can't find out why I sleep well sometimes and not others.......sorry I'm not much help, but I feel for you all.....!

caz

For the last week or so, I just have to go to sleep for an hour after I come home from work. Then, I'm up in the middle of the night. As long as nothing is wrong, I'll just live with it. I figure that things will eventually get back on a "normal" pace. Eventually.

I take D3 2000 IU, Magnesium and Vit C and Melatonin and Celestial Seasonings Sleeptime Tea before bed. Additionally, I sit outside in the sun each day for about 15 minutes with my eyes closed (no sunblock allowed, I know controversial, however, do it before 10am or after 4:00pm to avoid strong sun) it is supposed to reset the ciridian (forgive my spelling of this) which is in the eye area which helps with sleep cycles. I don't know but I sleep fairly well. I won't say it is fool proof, but, I am having more decent sleep nights than not. If I do wake up I am able to get back to sleep. I've been doing this for the last month and I personally see a difference. I know we are all different but you never know maybe it will work for you. By the way my Cortisol was high when tested, my D3 was low.

Hi Mich......

I do almost the same as you, though I take 4,000 iu D3 a day, mag/cal/zinc along with it (evenings), 1,000mg vit C, I try and sit out for 15-30 minutes with no sunscreen too......my cortisol levels were tested and were high AND my D3 test came back too low.....

My sleep is getting better, but I do have to say that I have a fair amount of anxiety because of my husband's job...he's about to go away to Iraq for a year - but gets to come home every 3 months for 3 weeks - so this is upsetting my circadian rhythm BIG TIME!!!!

C'est La Vie!

Caz

Magnesium works great for me. Estrogen patches used to keep me sleeping great, but for some reason I have had to stop. I was getting sick from them afer a year of doing great. Mag. and calcium at bedtime, or a couple hours before is great. Relaxes the muscles etc.

Magnesium works great for me. Estrogen patches used to keep me sleeping great, but for some reason I have had to stop. I was getting sick from them afer a year of doing great. Mag. and calcium at bedtime, or a couple hours before is great. Relaxes the muscles etc.

Hi Caz,

I was wondering if I should up my D3, what do you think? I only do 400 for Vit C, do you think I should raise that too. I think it's only natural you would have anxiety about your husband leaving, I'm glad though that you get to see him every 3 months for 3 weeks. Thanks for clearing up the "circadian" word for me, lol.

Mich

Hi Mich...

My alternative Doc actually told me to take 8,000-10,000iu's!!!......I did to begin with, but have dropped it to 4,000iu, which I probably shouldn't have, so I may take more again.....I am going to retest again here soon to see if my levels have gone up. (in menopausal women you should be in the upper range, I was in the lower range of 36.5)

With the vitamin C, I was also told to take 1,000mg a couple of times a day...apparently it can't hurt to take that much as your bodies gets rid of what you don't need, but again, I am a little wary of that so I take 1,000mg....that is unless I am beginning to feel run down or like I am about to get ill, then I will take more.

I take 'Emergen-C'....you can get it most places, it comes in sachets and you dissolve it in water, and it is 1,000mg a sachet....and it says on the info that you can take 2-3 a day or even more!!.....so with that being said, I would suggest you take AT LEAST 1,000mg.

If your cortisol level is high, then read 'Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st Century Stress Syndrome' by Dr James Wilson....he gives guidelines on which and how much vitamins to take to help lower those levels.

Caz

Thank you so much, I will take your advice on the D3 and get the Emergen-C and also will buy that book. Thanks again for taking the time to respond. Would it be too much trouble for you to PM this so I don't lose it in the revolving door of threads, my memory isn't that bad but I may forget which thread this is on. lol. That way I know it won't be lost forever in the land of PS.

have you tried magnesium?
I have issues with sleep but when I am very sleep deprived and wake in the middle of the night many times I will reach for a 250 mg of magnesium. It is a mineral that most people are lacking in anyhow.