Hi everyone, I tried to fit my topic into another category, but just couldn't find one. So forgive me for starting a new one, but I really need some support.

I'm 56. I've been without a period for over two years. I've had weeks or months where I felt I was getting past all this meno stuff - back exercising and actually finding a *little* enthusiasm for a couple things, then it all falls apart again.

Now, and for the past 6 months or so, I wake up in the morning and just feel this overwhelming ball of tears in my gut. I try to put it aside, try to think positive thoughts, but it doesn't shift, so I usually end up crying and crying. That somewhat relieves it. But I've lost enthusiasm. I feel apathetic and have no enthusiasm for things I used to love to do. I can't even find enthusiasm for my writing (I'm an author). I could easily just play computer games all day, but then I'd feel guilty and totally non-productive at the end of the day.

My husband is wonderful and has taken over most of the household stuff I no longer have ANY interest in. But watching him do it all while I sit andcry just makes me feel soooo guilty. I have such a huge surge of resistance inside myself when it comes to anything like cooking, cleaning or housework. I'll burst into tears if the slightest thing goes wrong, and the smallest things frustrate me. The guilt of being this way is overwhelming sometimes.

I also feel really lonely - like no one understands - and this makes me feel like I'm weird or cuckoo and need to see a shrink. I'm not interested in visiting anyone or seeing friends (tho I have few here in Australia, being U.S. born and raised). I just don't even have the enthusiasm to try to make anyone undestand what I'm going through.

Still, deep down I feel this is more hormonal stuff and keep hoping it'll ease over time.

I feel like meno should be over and wonder/worry constantly my sadness, lonliness and mood swings are no longer hormone related and I've got a mental problem. You read things that say if you've gone 2 years w/o a period, you're into meno and should be okay. Am I misunderstanding?

What I'm wondering is if any of you 50+ ladies who've been period-free for a couple years are still having these feelings of apathy, uselessness, loneliness, crying, cold/hot flashes...and feeling sometimes like there's no reason you should even be alive - okay, I know that sounds overly dramatic, but it's just a feeling...I simply can't think of any dreams or goals that even interest me anymore. If I could truly trust it's still meno playing around with my body, I could probably handle it all much better.

Thanks for your feedback.

Mobi: I'm in my late forties, not fifties, but I am in my 2nd year of no periods. You post really touched my heart. Without meaning to sound harsh, or judgmental, it sound like you may be experiencing clinical depression. The lack of energy, loss of enthusiasm, crying spells...they're all classic symptoms. It's a disease like any other--no different than having diabetes or cancer. And their are better drugs for treating it than ever before. Have you ever tried a short course of any of the newer SSRI's or even the older ones, like Prozac?

I think a consultation with a good psychiatrist wouldn't be a bad idea. There is no need for you to be suffering this way. For me, 20 mgs a day of Prozac made enough of a difference that I kept on it for over a year. I've actually been on and off Prozac many times. It's there when I need it, and when I feel better, I wean myself off. It's not a miracle pill, but it did help with the crying spells and the feelings of apathy that you have talked about (I could very much identify with those...)

Please consider it...let me know what you think...

-Robin

Hi Mobi, remember me? Yup, still here!

So sorry that despite being post-menopausal, you're back to this crapola. Hon, I just went through exactly what you are going through!

I am 2 and 1/2 years post now... After going through a HORRENDOUS peri-menopause, last year was the best year of my life (truly!), and I thought, yippee, this is it - it's over!!!!

And then... January of this year was so-so, February worse, March worse still, and in April I had to accept that this was something that must be dealt with...

Do you find a part of yourself just P*SSED OFF to be back to this? Even feeling worn-out, achy, and completely apathetic, I did! Like we haven't suffered enough already???

For me, it required getting back onto an anti-depressant. Very disappointing after such a great year, but oh, well. It kicked in quickly, and I'm doing great now, a little over a month of being on it.

Did you take anti-depressants during your earlier bouts? What helped you, if anything?

You asked just the question I was asking earlier this year - why now, after not having a period for 2 years? Could this still be hormonal? Am I just plain mentally ill?

To some degree, peri-menopause seems like much more than just hormonal changes. There is something more profound going on... like the sense you describe, of utterly DREADING housework.... Finding chit-chat with people being "too much work..." Lounging around contemplating life when we used to be "do-ers." Letting the housework pile up... Going about things very differently than we used to... We are rethinking so much, coming to new terms... It's a big LIFE change.

Sometimes I wonder if it's just that years and years of taking care of other people, have finally come around to our throwing in the towel. Like saying "enough already." Time to shift into a new way of being in the world, but what would that mean???

(((HUGS))) to you Mobi, and I pray you will find your balance again soon. You're not alone. Thank goodness when we return to it, Power-Surge is here, still full of kindness and concern and support.

Luv,
JJ

(((((Mobi))))))
Great to see you post here!
You're certainly not alone with this!
As you see - you'll be meeting old friends like ((JJ)), who's still "on board".
We'll stay on this cruise together...
We have an anchor - PowerSurge! Thanks, Dearest!
You know that all my symptoms didn't turn up and knock me down until I was nearly 4 years without a period, so don't look for a pattern, we're all different.
Enjoy the good moments and don't feel guilty! Remember Claire Weekes words on that!!
Big hugs, dear friend,
Jonie

Thanks so much to you all for posting - and posting so quickly. You know, it always makes me sad when people tell me they've been helped by antidepressants. Sadly for me, I can't take them. I have EXTREME reactions to them - and have tried quite a few. One is what threw me into anxiety/panic attacks that took almost 5 years to settle. Others knock me flat out so I can't even move...yet am still depressed. I told my husband 5 years ago if I went nuts to just be sure NO one put me on antidepressants, as they do more harm for me than good.

As to what I did prior to this? I take Paxam (clonazepam) for the anxiety/BMS, and see a counsellor for the rest. There's not much more I can do, since I also have a terrible reaction to hormones of any kind...especially progestin.

Jonie, I didn't realize you were 4 years w/o a period before having symptoms! How awful. I do have a counsellor who says we're all different and that menopause is a bit like a train that's going full-speed-ahead coming to a halt. When it first puts on the breaks, it's a very bumpy, scary ride, then it begins to slow more and more smoothly, but it's still slowing for some time until it finally comes to a stop (which she calls when we're finally balanced within ourselves again.)

JoliJacq, I never had an entire year where I felt good, but I was working on about 5-6 months. Then problem that causes pain in my buttock/back when I walk made it so I can't exercise. It's thrown me into a bit of chaos - mostly because no one can figure exactly what the problem is. That said, I still swim every day, but it's not the same as walking, and I do have so much weight to lose. But like you, when the crying jags hit, I thought: "Oh no, shouldn't this be gone by now?" And I truly feel it's physiological, as I actually have a physical sensation in the pit of my stomach - and USUALLY don't have anything worth crying about anyway.

For me, however, I have to face this without meds. The thought of what the antidepressants and HRT did to me in the past is too much for me to consider. I've tried multiple times and each time have VOWED I'd never do it again. So, I guess I just have to push through this au naturale.

You sound so much like what my mother went through at meno time...finally with tears she told the doctor to give her something...she just didn't enjoy anything at all...so he gave her 10mg of Paxil and it helped for a while, and then they upped it to 20 mg of Paxil and she has been on that for years now and is doing really, really, great.

My point here, and ffrom what I have read, antidepresents are very individual...some work for some but not for others and you have to hang in there and keep trying until you find one, with the right amount that works for you....my MIL went through the same thing...it took about a year, but she finally got the one that is right for her, and I honestly say I see a new woman for many months now.

You still might want to consider it...there are a lot of different ones out there.

If not, have you given acupuncture a thought? Joan

Wow...I've been feeling so horrible myself and antidepressants make me just as sick too. I've tried at least 8 or 9 of them over the years and they all gave me horrible side effetc, except Lexapro but unfortunately I developed bad side effects after 3 months of taking it. I feel so bad again this morning after being woken up again at 1:18 am with the racing heart thing and then I stayed up for awhile after things calmed down. I just want to crawl in a my bed right now until this nightmare is over.

Hugs,
Karen

Karen, Mobi, and all who can't take anti-depressants... my heart goes out to you.

There was a great show about depression on PBS last month, and they pointed out there are people who can not take AD's - it's very sad... They mentioned other approaches, such as CBT training, accupuncture, standard counseling, physical exercise, light therapy, etc. Some people swear that EFA's will help with depression, and then of course there is the "Potatoes, Not Prozac" book that some people say helps. I tried this a few times, and did feel better the morning after having potatoes the evening before! Might be worth looking into...

There was one older woman on the PBS program who was resistant to everything, and they gave her the new form of shock treatment (forget what they specifically call this), and she had good response. It's not what it used to be in the "old days."

Not that I'm recommending any of this - just want to encourage you to not lose hope. There's a very good book, "The Depression Workbook" by Mary Ellen Copeland, that might give you some things to try. Also, a new book I like a lot is "The Mindful Way through Depression," written by a group of doctors from Oxford University. They claim that mindfulness (focusing the thoughts to the present, over and over again) can help as much as AD's. The book includes a CD of meditations of various kinds, to help with the process.

And good ol' Claire Weekes, reminding us to "float" as much as possible, and try not to be afraid or completely discouraged.

Much love to you all.

JJ

Hi again!
I wasn't given an AD, but a tranquillizer - it really helped and I had no side effects from it, nor withdrawal symptoms, though I did only take it for 2 weeks and then only when needed.
I just felt totally normal when I took them.
Perhaps you could ask your doctor about that?
Good luck!
Hugs, Jonie

Again, thanks so much for all the replies. Unfortunately I cannot tolerate any form of antidepressant - I've learned this over many, many years - had post-natal depression. I've also suffered from true depression in the past, but this that I'm feeling now is different. It's more of a physiological need to cry. If I cry, I feel better.

I just realized, it's a full moon in two days, so I expect this is exacerbating problems. I've noticed that despite my periods being done, I still become irritable and cry easily nearl full moons...as when I had PMT. I suspect the body still is affected by this stuff.

A lot of what's going on is a sense of losing goals. Since my daughter moved out, I've been feeling very 'lost'. I never, EVER thought I'd have empty-nest, but it's affected me tremendously. Possilby exacerbated by the fact I'm a Michigander living in Australia - with all my family and friends still in the U.S. It's a somewhat lonely existence, especially when your children are grown up and moved out and you face the rest of your life in a foreign country with only your husband. Financial problems don't help, either.

Anyway, I want to thank you all for your input. I've always wished I could be one of those people who could take AD's and all would be well, but honestly, I've tried as many as I'm willing to try and NONE have helped and MOST have left me with months of side-effects because my chemistry becomes screwed up. I also saw a show just recently stating AD's are the most overprescribed drug in the western world - and most times they are not helpful. So, while I'm sure they work for many, they don't work for me...and I'm not willing to risk the horrific side effects to 'try' to find something that 'might or might not' help anyway.

I take heart in knowing these things tend to come cyclically. I keep journals and go back and read and realize the 'down' times are lasting much less than the 'up' times. It's a matter of balance, and I believe once my body chemistry rebalances, things will improve remarkably. I look at my mother who's 90 this year and when I call her and ask how she's feeling she always says: "I'm feeling just fine." She has always told me: "Your 50's are tough - once you get past the change of life, you'll feel okay." So I'm hoping she's right. At least I don't have bi-polar like my sister! :-x

You all have helped me just be letting me know some of you are still experiencing meno symptoms in your 50s. That's truly what I need to hear. It helps me to put things in perspective. So thank you so much.

Karen, how old are you? Just curious. It does sound like you're still getting meno symptoms, too.

Hi Mobi
Just something you may want to try before going onto antidepressants...
Food intolerances can "cause" depression symptoms... this is certainly true for me.
(I am 54 and Post and qualified in Nutrition).
Two things to try:
Wheat and Dairy. (one at a time)
Try cutting out all wheat (and I mean ALL, even traces.. you will need to read labels) for 2 weeks. You can replace it with potatoes and rice and corn.
If this makes no difference try cutting out ALL Dairy (including butter). Eggs are ok some people associate them with dairy.. they aren't.
If you feel worse for a few days that means it IS probably working so don't give up! I cried for a full day and felt awful when I cut out dairy. The feeling worse soon turns into feeling good if this is your problem.

Won't do any harm and you never know it may just help.. it did for me.
HUGS Lindy xx

I'm on estradiol patch, prometrium and estrogen cream and I STILL feel sad when I first wake up in the morning. I'm much better--but not back to my old self yet. I've been on HRT for a little more than a year.

A couple of days ago I started taking 100 mg. twice a day of 5-HTP. It's an over the counter supplement that is supposed to help with depression.

I think I feel better--but it is really too soon to tell.

I don't know if you can get this where you are, but if you can, you might google it and see if it is something you are interested in trying.

Miss Tibbs

I'm 48, will be 49 in November. I'm 14 months without a period so I'm no officially post. I have terribel night sweats and hot flashes too...oh is this not fun any longer......not that it was fun to begin with but it's gotta end soon.

Well, I thought I'd write and at least tell you all the 'worst' of the crying jag is over. This time it lasted approximately 3 weeks. I'm trying to keep track, and they do seem to be cyclical. This indicates it's hormones surges still. I must also mention that during the times I tried antidepessants - despite the other intolerable side-effects - I never felt any less 'depressed'...that is, they made me feel zonked and 'out of it', but I never felt any 'better'. So for me, antidepressants are simply a no-go. I will never take them. I feel they're terribly overprescribed and latest reports show that most who are on them don't have enough benefit to rationalize such overprescibing.

I still have a bit of anxiety first thing in the mornings, but as of today, knock wood, I think I'm on my 'things are improved' phase of this roller-coaster. I do notice it comes in waves - and the waves are getting longer apart. So I'll go for up to 3 months and then have a real bad attack of hormones. I should've known this was coming as it'd been a while and then the full moon was last Thursday. Now things feel more settled, and while I'm not clicking my heels and jumping for joy, I'm feeling much more content.

I also believe this transition is not just a hormonal one. I think we all know we're transitioning not just physically, but mentally as well. For many, they fill up the 'void' by working frenetically to keep from thinking about what this new phase of life really means. It means we're on the last leg of our journey in this life. So many try to avoid thinking about it. I guess for me, I AM thinking about it and I believe that's important for coming to terms with it. Or so I've read.

Anyway, I won't make this a long post...Thank you for the suggestions. Lindy, the food info is good. I've already done both you suggested. I no longer can tolerate any dairy OR SOY! Which, yes, makes things difficult, but I manage. The wheat didn't seem to have a marked affect when I quit using it, but I do try to keep it very minimal.

Miss Tibbs, I'll see if I can find some info on that supplement, tho I've never heard of it here. St. John's Wort is the supplement they use for mild depression. I've tried that and it helped in my peri years slightly.

Take care, ladies. I'm learning this is all about acceptance and I often forget when I'm going through a really rough patch. When it's over, I look back and see very clearly how it was another cyclical 'spurt'. The last hurrahs of hormones can be confusing and frightening when you've believed they're done. <g>

Dang Robin--you always seem so intelligent/informed in all your post!!
With all the anxiety/chest tightness I have constantly, I can manage to read here..but not post much!!
PLEASE-keep posting (for my sake)

HUGSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!

WE NEED "ESTROGEN" LADIES.... NOT ANTI DEPRESSANTS.. HELL WE DID NOT NEED THEM BEFORE THIS MENOPAUSAL CRAP... I JUST DONT KNOW WHAT WE ARE GONNA DOOOOOO..... MAKE THE RESEARCHERS LISTEN TO MATURE WOMEN FOR ONCE.

IM GOING BACK TO BHRT WHERE I BELONG.. GETTING OFF OF THEM COMPLETELY WAS A LIVING HELL..

HOPE YOU START FEELING BETTER..

MAD AS HELL

mobi,
I too am 56 and 2 years post and still fighting so many meno problems. Thw twist with me is that I have a 9 year old son. He sure is getting an education in women and there emtions. I have aches and pains and heart palps pvc's and pac's. Every day feel as though is this the day I won't have the energy to fight the fight. It gets so old and I thought when you were post, this stuff stopped.
I will pray for you.
Glen

Glen, hang in there - and have faith that hormones are still wreaking havoc. I have some friends here who said they didn't start to feel better until they were nearly 60 ...some later. So it's a personal thing. I think the idea of feeling the way we do and NOT having an explanation is worse than knowing hormones are still doing their nasty deeds. I'm having non-related health issues - an injury that they can't figure out the source of. I go in for an injection into the lower facet joints of my back next week. This will be about the 8th injection - all other in other places (SI joint, piriformis muscle, hip etc etc etc). None worked - most made the situation worse. If this one doesn't work, the specialist will have to assume it's the disk that's causing the pinching problem, and when I asked what we'd do about the disk, he said: "We'd leave it alone." So I'm in turmoil realizing if this doesn't work, I won't be able to walk (since this flairs up badly if I walk even a short distance). No more shopping or strolls on the beach...it's a tough future to face. But no matter what happens, I haven't lost hope. I think once we lose hope, then we know we're deep in depression. I get really down about it, but then it goes away and I just get on with what I CAN do.

As to 'fighting the fight', I think the best thing to do is stop fighting and just let the tiger come. That's what Claire Weekes says about anxiety - and it's true about most things. Fighting only causes us stress. Float, don't fight. Just get up and try not to project. The only thing we can be certain of is: Nothing ever remains the same. So with that in mind, there's always hope. But I do understand how you're feeling - so know you're not alone. Hugs to you!!

Mobi

Mobi,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. How are you doing? Have you had the shot yet? Pray everything turns out good
Glen

Yes, I've had the injection - yesterday. I've been in excrutiating pain ever since. The darn dr. told me "this one won't hurt as much as the other" - hahaha! 6 needles later...and he kept moving them around to get them in the right spots. Then afterwards, they want you to fill out a 'pain chart'. The pain from the injections themselves was so bad, I couldn't tell if the OTHER pain had been affected or not. But today, I realize it hasn't helped. So....more money down the drain and I guess this means it's my disc and he says there's not much can be done about that. But, I'm not giving up. I know I'm not the only one who has this kind of pain and I'm sure there's something that can be done. It's just a matter of finding the right person. In the meantime, tho, I'm still having bouts of feeling like I'll never walk properly again, or be able to do the things I used to do. That's what gets to me - the fear that I'll be forever incapacitated. I should take my own advice, tho - that all things change and "this too, shall pass".

I hope you're feeling a bit better? Thanks so much for thinking of me.

Has anyone read A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle? I've read his other books, and am halfway through this one. Boy, is my 'pain body' active these days. I believe pain-body's must feed on menopause. <g>

Hi Mobi-
Sometimes I think if I survive another 30 years is this what I am going to feel like, because it is not who I used to be. I am finding it incredibly hard to keep up with my housework and I was NEVER like that. I think meno must have some depression associated with it for a lot of us. I wonder if acupuncture would help? Are you sleeping well? My own gyn pointed out that the lack of sleep alone can cause so many things, even the memory problems and foggy thinking.

Is there any activity or anything you can do each day to try to get back a little of the former days when you felt good? Do you play any sports, hike, anything that you could push yourself to do that might slowly get you back into enjoying each day? I wish I had answers, I'm struggling with this too but I have noticed a good nights sleep is very helpful.


I've been thinking about anti anxiety drugs myself. I do not handle stress well at all these days.

I have not yet met a woman going through or in meno or post who hasn't given up the housework - or at least handed a lot over to hubbie. This, I've found, is NORMAL. So don't beat yourself up for that. Consider you've done it all these years and it's come 'naturally' as you were in the throes of the 'domestic' woman years. Now, if you've had kids, they're probably grown and gone, and you are in different phase. Housework and raising children are no longer priorities. Feeling tired is very normal, too, IMO, since our bodies are aging and the chemistry formula that gave us energy is changing. This doesn't happen to everyone, but to MOST I've known/met, it does.

I think depression creaps in when we begin to think: "I SHOULD be like I was 20 years ago - or 10 years ago." No, you shouldn't. You're no longer that age. It's a matter of accepting that this is certainly a new phase of life and it will be completely different from the previous one - just as being a teenager is very different than being a child. Meno is the transitioning process, not just when it comes to chemistry/hormones, but also into this final phase of life.

What I find difficult is letting go of the 'idea' we'll be exactly as we were before meno once it's over. I know this is ridiculous, but it's hard to say goodbye to what you knew and wait for what will come...not knowing what it is.

I believe if you relax into what's happening - inside and out - and get rid of the word 'should' from your vocabulary, you'll find a little path to acceptance of what is. Don't fight it, and don't 'label' it as 'bad' or 'good'. It is what it is.

I believe the worst thing you can do is to force yourself to do things you're resitant to. Let your body choose what feels good and listen to it carefully. Is it telling you to go out running or become frenetically active? I don't think so. I believe that's your anxiety speaking - fear of the unknown...fear of letting go of the past.

It's hard - but we're in this together, and no matter what happens, remember you'll get through it and find peace. It's just a matter of letting the transition take place and not fighting it.

Hugs!!!
Mobi

My symptoms also started 4 years post -for the first time. Peri? - what was that? Nothing but an occasional hot flash.
Last summer was a disaster! Anxiety, muscle twitches, nausea, depression, crying jags, insomnia....it lasted for months. Then I just started to get better. I can't take any meds - just tried to do all the sensible things.

So, when I felt pretty much back to normal I had this elective umbilical hernia surgery in May. Then came a post-op infection and I'm now in week five with a visiting nurse still coming every day to change the wound dressings. I've been so stressed that I expected a return of all symptoms - but that didn't happen!

Crying? Oh yes, but I've been a crier all my life. My husband is a great listener and I always feel better after crying. As a matter of fact, last night I cried because I feel like I will have this hole in my stomach permanently...and today I feel better.

A difficult peri doesn't mean those symptoms will continue into post. My only (that's important) symptoms came when I was post - the balancing of hormones has to come sooner or later. For me it was later. It's never forever. You'll get better.

Regards,
Helen

Oh, I forgot...here are some other quotes from my crying jag last night:

"Why did this happen to me?"

"Didn't I suffer enough last summer?"

"The doctors don't care about me."

"Someone has put a hex on me."

"I getting repaid for every bad thing I've done in my life."


and so on...blah, blah, blah...but I feel better today!!

helen

Gosh, I just read through this thread and just about cried. I too can't take AD's. I took paxil and celexa years ago and the side effects were horrible for several weeks getting on them and horrible time coming off (Plus I got FAT, but that's another thread). Lexapro did not work for me and Pamelor made my heart race, race race.

I'm having a difficult time right now as well. I was hoping seemingly happy that finally my anxiety and depressive episodes have quieted dowm (afterall I am almost over the 12 month mark), then I got hit with personal issues (one in particular was a devastating blow), then bam I'm anxiety riddent and a depressive hermet all in one fell swoop. The passion I had for my career is GONE. I do not want to clean my house nor do I care about looking good anymore. This was not like me a few months ago. I was really hitting my stride and felt good for the most part, but I believe my recent personal issues have caused a crash and burn of my hormones. In the past, such personal issues were dealt with headon and put to rest. I'm not so tough minded anymore. I'm actually quite fragile now, which scares me.

Like the EVEWASFRAMED stated in a few posts above, we don't need AD's, we need estrogen. I'm going to see my gyno in a few weeks to see about doing something to regulate my body. I can't take this anymore.

Take care. You are not alone.

Oh, you guys are simply wonderful! Altho I HATE to hear you've had the problems/issues you're dealing with, it CERTAINLY makes me feel less alone in all this.

Helen, what you said is extremely eye-opening for me. I had no idea you could have a 'simple' peri, then have a really awful meno. I completely agree that crying does help. But I've NEVER been a crier. And isn't it ironic how now we all feel so much more fragile and less 'strong'?

Gia, you wrote: "In the past, such personal issues were dealt with headon and put to rest. I'm not so tough minded anymore. I'm actually quite fragile now, which scares me."

This is SUCH a thread throughout the meno message boards! And I can't hear it enough. I keep having to remind myself THIS IS NORMAL! We are going through an extremely difficult time and our 'strength' is not what it used to be. I can't tell you the number of times I've burst into tears thinking "If something happens to me, who's going to be the 'strong' one and be able to take care of me?" I've always been the one to do it - for everyone in my family. Now, I just want others to understand that *I* need looking after and tending to. I need my family/friends to understand I'm NOT the strong one right now, and need THEM to step up.

Thanks to both of you for posting! I found both posts very, very helpful - and Gia, it's so good to know there are others who can't take the meds everyone keeps trying to thrust at us.

Helen, I LOVED the quotes! You could've taken some from my brain. I've currently got a bad back problem. No one can figure out what's wrong, but it's very debilitating. My quotes: "Why me?" "Why am I even here if I can't walk or do anything?" "What's wrong with me that I can't accept this and accept it will probably go away eventually?" "How can I live like this?" etc etc etc. Then, the next day I'll be saying: "I can handle this. It's not the end of the world." "I can still do things, just not everything." "I have a wonderful husband and daughter and son - I'm so grateful." It's amazing to me how quickly these things can switch over and back. To me, that's hormones affecting my moods.

Hugs to you both!
Mobi

I can't take the HRT either. I'm overweight and apparently MOST overweight women are estrogen dominant. But I can't take progestin in ANY form without MASSIVE mood swings. So, I'm kind a stuck just having to live through all this. My mom, who's 90, keeps saying: "How old are you?" and when I remind her I'm 56 she says: "Oh, that's a hard time. You're just going through the change. That'll go away. You'll feel better once that's over." I'm hoping she's not too senile to forget. But at her age, she still says she feels fine when I ask, so no depression, no anxiety and no sadness. That's a positive sign to me.

Mobi, your mom sounds GREAT! I believe her when she says this will all pass.

Just wanted to let you know that I have the back pan, too. No real explanation for it but when I'm folding laundry, cooking, or at the sink, it starts. Yes, it can be very painful BUT I put "back pain" into the search on Power Surge and I found a LOT about it. I think it's just another symptom - and people say that it does goes away.

I also wanted to tell you that last summer I was apathetic about most things, too. I'm an avid reader but I don't think I picked up a book - this summer, I'm reading a lot.

Last summer (I feel awful about this) some of my plants died. I got so behind on the watering...I just wasn't into it. This summer I'm much more diligent.

Hang in there!

Helen

I'm having more episodes of back pain too. No real reason for it that I can see so maybe it is another meno symptom.

Re the crying jags...I don't cry at all anymore. I also don't laugh as much or smile as much. I guess I am a bit of a zombie right now. I miss the old me.

Lord have mercy....I thought I was the only one who was "feeling" this way!! I have been feeling the same uselessness, loneliness, apathy, crying, cold/hot flashes for about 2 years. I'm 50 and period free for 2 years 5 months now. I walk.....and I discuss my feelings with my husband. And yes, although men can and will NEVER fully understand the physical, mental, and emotional effects of peri/or post menopause, I'd like to think that my husband is understanding and deeply cares as to what I am going through and...he listens. I also decided to go to Therapy. Sometimes one simply needs to know they aren't "crazy" and can have complete trust and objective criticism while letting any and all emotions out to someone not so close to home.
Personally, I think that our hormones simply end up flat-lining. And with that....I've thought that maybe, just maybe everything inside of me is going 100 different directions as I lose estrogen and come into this new "me".
Although I don't share your same feelings of "there's no reason to be alive", I can surely empathize and I FULLY understand where you're coming from and exactly how you feel. Try real hard to go for walks, maybe to a gym, get involved with other women's groups (my therapist said for me to get involved with women my same age group, no older than 60). Shoot...I blog. I blog on Myspace and I blog just for the release. When I start feeling that "internal funk" I also get up and clean, or call a friend, or make myself busy.
These are all just merely suggestions. I hope and pray that you find what's best for you. Trust me....I understand.

Thanks so much for sharing your suggestions, Colleen! I totally agree with you...and was out walking regularly until a year ago when some 'mysterious' ailment stopped me dead in my tracks. It causes excrutiating pain in my buttock and hip after I walk even a short distance. I've been to see 4 doctors and one specialist and have endured at least 6-8 injections...in joints, muscles, nerve-blocks etc. They still aren't quite sure where the pain is coming from. At first we thought it was a torn muscle, but now, after excluding many things, they're thinking it may be a disc in my back...tho I'm not so sure about that. In any case, THAT in itself has me very down, and while I deal with it daily pretty well (I work as an author, so I can work from home....also teach online), I sometimes just have a meltdown and feel so limited ...like I'm an invalid. Where once I'd go power walking for over an hour a day, I can now no longer even walk to the end of our road to get the mail without suffering the consequences and being laid out flat on my back. No drugs touch the pain, and all the muscles go into spasm. So, yes, I agree with keeping busy and exercise being a huge help for women going through meno moods, but it's a double blow to have those options removed.

Still, I feel much better and am coping okay. I haven't given up hope that this 'problem' (tho it's gone on for over a year now!) will either go away on its own, or SOMEone will find an answer.

I've been keeping track, too, and realize I get very moody during the full moons - two weeks prior to a week after. This, I know, is hormonal.

Mobi

Hey Girl,
I truley thought we would be done with all this but I'm still having heart palps and crying The anxiety is crazy and now I have knee pain and planters facitus SP? I can't remember how to spell
Still praying for all of us when my brain works
Glen

To help with the plantar-f, use a tennis ball and put the sole of your foot on it and move it around . Do this every day. Also take a towel and put it around your toes and pull the towel towards you. It stretches your foot. Do it every day. PF is really painful, hope it goes away soon.

Glen, I had plantar fasciitis too a few years back. My dr. wanted to give me an injection, but I thought "Ow! That's pretty deep to drive a needle!" so I opted out. It went away on its own over time, so don't lose hope. It's very debilitating when you have it, but just try to make sure you have a soft cushion in your shoe heel and stay off it as much as possible. I used to use ice on it regularly, too. The tennis ball as mentioned is also helpful sometimes. For me, it didn't work, but for many it does. Hang in there. "And this, too, shall pass."

Mobi

Thanks to all for the advice. I did not know 56ish would be so much fun Notice how the hair on your cha cha fell off and went somewhere else. Not to worry about the foot because if I think of it to much my heart remind me that we still have palps
Have a great one
Glen

Hi Honey Am 57 and still feeling screwed so sympathise completely.Had my last perios at age 39 and took HRT plus Prozac for depression.Weaned my self gradually of them at the beginning of this year and was right back to square one NutsVille.Put up with symptoms as long as possible and then had to go back on the HRT and Prozac.Feel like a big loser but when I discussed it with Doctor said you need quallity of life and for some as yourself will need to be on medication for the rest of your life. Took about six monts for treatment to kick in and along with Yoga,regular walks feel a lot better.Do have crummy days when look and feel crazy but all in all will never go off meds again.This is just my personal experience but really feel very bad for you and implore you to seek help whether natural herbs minerals etc.There is a lot of help available dear friend so please suffer no longer. I just entered this wonderful community recently and reading all the ladies comments makes me feel less alone.I live in the Middle East where no-one talks about Menopause and taking Prozac is for the severely mentally ill so not much compassion at this end. Anyway,my friend am always here and love to be in contact if you wish All the best Elizabeth

Elizabeth, welcome to the group! It must be awful having public judgements passed on you about what you need to take medically as well as dealing with the problems themselves. I went through a similar feeling about the clonazepam I take for Burning Mouth Syndrome. It developed mid-peri and I have never had so much pain and suffering. It took almost 2 years to find a qualified specialist on the subject and he said the anxiety was caused by the BMS, NOT the other way around. The clonazepam keeps it under control, so I haven't had full-blown panic attacks since. That said, I, too, tried to wean off the meds about a year ago and ended up right back with the BMS and panics. So, as MY specialist said, too, some of us may simply have to take them for the rest of our lives. I have no side affects from it, and it doesn't cause any drowsiness or anything. I just worry about being on any med too long. But, if I were an epileptic, I'd have to be on meds all the time...or a diabetic etc. So we need to tell ourselves this isn't something we take that we don't need to take. It keeps us sane and with SOME quality of life.

I've tried many, many things - naturopathic as well as western med. I have pretty good weeks, then may have a bad week. A lot of this is brought about by this transitional time of my life - kids grown and moved out, living in a foreign country with my extended family halfway around the world, my mom 90 and getting frail...and I can't go see her because of the current buttock/back pain no one can seem to figure out, and no really close friends here in Australia - all my friends are back in the U.S. So it's tough. But I do believe this will ease up. I have faith. I know who I am and know I'm not nuts and believe this is another phase that will pass. One of the best helps to get me through everything: "And this, too, shall pass."

So glad you're with us. I hope you remain positive and strong in knowing your own needs and don't let outside pressures push you to try to accept others' views. If you need the meds, you need them. I have a friend who's a psychiatrist and she says regarding meno: "Take anything that helps!"

Hugs to you!
Mobi

Except for the flashes, I feel exactly like you do. Hopefully, this is just a phase and will pass soon for everyone who feels this way!

Some of the things you've said, Mobi, really triggered thoughts about how in adolescence, we didn't just immediately start feeling differently when our periods first began. Not an immediate WHAM! as our breasts and hips filled out, the shapes of our faces changed, relationships changed, etc. Rather, it was a process, as we could almost see our changing bodies morphing in new ways. We experienced bizarre periods at first (as odd and sporadic as the last ones I've had!), had to learn about how our moods would shift at times, felt the "heaviness" of our pelvises on the first day of periods, etc.

We had the embarrassing experience of bleeding through clothes - had to learn to always "be prepared!" We cried over slights from other kids in school, dreamed about boys who wanted nothing to do with us, tried to learn how to make ourselves more attractive and popular, with some or no success.

We matured, became more interested in romance and sex; we put aside our beloved dollies and kids'-toys. Do you remember that strange sense of playing with dolls, and feeling like maybe we're too old for that? I do! - (at age 12). There was some sadness about that. We developed our beliefs about politics, began to look at ourselves as "new" adults, spoke up with more authority. Considered the things we might want to do - or not do in our lives, and planned how to get there.

Our views of the world, and our position within the world, changed as our bodies changed, and I think that's very much what's happening now.

Your first post, Mobi, was so honest and true... And given that a number of sisters have shared that they didn't even get the awful symptoms until years AFTER the last period, it's definitely a bigger transition we're once again experiencing.

I'm beginning to understand why the Victorians called it "change of life."

(((HUGS))) to all going through this - whoever will be we on the other side? I almost don't care, so long as there's a respite from all the physical and emotional difficulties. I want to feel settled.

JJ

JJ you're so spot-on as they say here! I totally agree...as do most of the books and my counsellor. We are definitely in transition - and on many more levels than simply 'hotflashes and low libido'. I hardly remember the 'transitional' phase of puberty, but I remember BEFORE puberty - the exhuberence and love of life and love of nature, fresh air and the imagination ...picking wild strawberries...trying to catch a leprechaun in a jar...searching for fairies...There were so many free and easy things pre-puberty to make each day something bright to wake up to.

As I said, I don't remember the transition, but suddenly all that stopped and bleakness, worry, competition, needs I'd never felt before all began to surface. It didn't help I was raped at the age of 12, and terrorized for two years after by someone I thought was my closest ally...it sort of put a quick end to my young carefree days. But amidst it all was, as you say, that sense of trying to 'find myself'.

If you ever read Facing the Fifties: From Denial to Reflection by Peter A. O'Connor, he speaks about the need for people who are transitioning in their fifties to stop the denial and accept that they're moving into a new stage of life. Once this is faced and accepted, we move into what he calls a liminal stage - betwixt and between - neither here nor there. It's a very confusing stage where we simply don't know WHO we are or what we're here for.

Eckhart Tolle talks about it, too, in A New Earth. He says: "I usually congratulate people when they tell me "I don't know who I am anymore." Then they look perplexed and ask, "Are you saying it is a good thing to be confused?" I ask them to investigate. What does it mean to be confused? "I don't know" is not confusion. Confusion is: "I don't know, but I should know." or "I don't know, but I need to know." Is it possible to let go of the belief that you should or need to know who you are? In other words, can you cease looking to conceptual definitions to give you a sense of self? Can you cease looking to thought for an identity? When you let go of the belief that you should or need to know who you are, what happens to confusion? Suddenly it is gone. When you finally accept that you don't know, you actually enter a state of peace and clarity that is closer to who you truly are than thought could ever be. Defining yourself through thought is limiting."

Anyway, there are many examples where writers/theologians/philosophers speak of life phases. Sadly, tho - and according to many - the transition from adult to old age is mostly hidden/tamped down/kept quiet. It's too scary to think we're no longer on our way up the mountain, but have reached the crest and are on the way down - and the ultimate 'outcome', then, is death. Yet we all must come to terms with this and understand the journey from adult to old age and death, is not death itself. Death is merely the ending of another phase/cycle of life. There's so much to experience and so much yet to learn and give to the world during our downhill years. But when we're in denial about where we are in life, we become stuck and often that's when depression sets in permanently, or we become closed-minded and/or bitter.

I frankly feel (in my less dramatic times ) that all the emotions and the roller-coaster experiences over this transitioning are truly forging me into something greater...at least I hope so. I know I'm in the liminal stage now because I feel so adrift. And that's why I cry a lot and ponder a lot and then, finally, just get on with things. I know in the deepest part of my heart this, too, shall pass and there will be many, many more good times to come. Everything comes in cycles ...ups and downs, peaks and troughs. It's why the Buddhists believe in 'following the middle road' - not getting too concerned with highs or lows since they all pass.

Anyway, I didn't mean to make this post so long. JJ, you've written what I've thought about but just never put into words. Thank you so much for that post. Hugs to everyone as we move together through this crazy phase!

Mobi

Mobi,

I love this last post of yours, too - what you express feels so "right" in my heart.

Yes, those good pre-puberty days! It would be heaven to just "know who we are" the way children do - express our preferences, pursue what we find fascinating, without worry about all the repercussions.

Mobi, I'm so shocked and sad at what happened to you as a little girl. What a terrible way to shift into puberty...

What you mention about a liminal stage - I am definitely there, and have been for about 5 years. It is frightening to be "free-falling," but what Eckhart Tolle says about ceasing to look to thought for one's identity, rings very true. When we get the kooky stinkin' thinkin' of perimenopause, for one thing, we KNOW we can not rely on those thoughts any longer! And what's left? If we're not our thoughts, then who the heck are we?

It requires some courage to move forward when our "selves" shatter into a million bits. And that's what happens for some of us in this stage of our lives.

I love your sense that you are being "forged" into a better place, and want to adopt that for my own perspective, too.

Thanks so much, Mobi, for this intriguing discussion - it is an amazing time, truly.

(((HUGS)))

JJ

Thanks JJ, and yes, this discussion has been wonderful for me, too. I don't *always* feel quite so philosophically assured. But some days...especially after reading a post like yours...I begin to pull out the truths that lie dormant behind so much angst and worry. And really, without the angst and worry, we'd all be okay, right?

As to who we truly are, do pick up a copy of Tolle's book, A New Earth. It's fascinating and rings so true. We are the space between our thoughts, not our thoughts. Our thoughts are important, but it's more important for us to realize we are so much more than just thought.

It's so good to come to this board and read these posts when I'm having a bad day. As to what happened to me as a child, I just saw an Oprah about a guy who was kidnapped and molested for 18 months - tortured daily - at the age of 12. I don't know how he manages to cope in life, but he does. In any case, the stats for molestation are that one of every seven children in the U.S. are sexually molested. So I'm sure not alone. And it's a good wake-up call to parents. For me, the worst was that my mother (being of old-fashioned "keep everything hidden in the closet" beliefs) out and out blamed me for the rape - said: "...it's always the girls fault. Men don't have control." So not only did I lose my brother (yes, it was my older brother) who was, I thought, my best friend at the time, I also lost my mother, who I realized I couldn't turn to in times of crisis to protect me. But I'm sure we all have skeletons and difficulties from our past. It's the now that's important. I've made a 'vision board' where I put up things that I want to see every day. The first was the word "JOY" in bright yellows and green. I also have "NOW IS MY FRIEND" up there. A Tolle quote. He says if we don't make an enemy of the 'now', it can't affect us negatively. But read the book for more info on that as taken out of context, it's hard to understand. I'm trying to learn to live in the present and have no expectations on the now. Acceptance is the key to peace. It's hard to break habits of a lifetime, tho, but I'm darn well trying.

Have a great weekend and stop and smell the flowers! <g>

Hugs!!!!

Mobi

Thanks for the welcome dear Mobi
The one Psychiatrist that I did see secretly many years ago tried to kiss me before writing a Prescription for Prozac!Got the hell out of there but filled the Prescription and have been using it ever since.Also on synthetic HRTs because biodentical hormones unheard of and anti anxiety meds as needed.Do you know that you can get all this Medication over the counter so long as you are able to pay exorbitant price but there is no monitoring of usage or help for tapering off.
Still in many ways feel some improvement and have got back to Gym and Yoga.Also got a couple of nice new dresses in the sale so small but good improvements.
There is something strange and I wonder if anyone else has had this strange experience.It sounds cruel and is embarassing to say but I look at my husband's face and keep thinking how ugly he is.Theoretically know that this is not true but can't help it.
Going to London next month to visit 86 year old Mum who has recovered from Colon Cancer but is very frail.
Feel so blessed by your welcome,dear friend.
Love Elizabeth