I watched a very interesting program on TV about vitamin D deficiency in people who life in northern climates.

With the fear of skin cancer, and people using sunscreen to protect themselves they are in turn preventing their bodies from producing much needed vitamin D!! And vitamin D deficiency has been linked to breast cancer, as well as diabetes particularly in children!

So what on earth do we do?? I am recovering from a little skin cancer surgery, my doctor says caused from the sun. So I now wear hats, sunglasses and sunscreen. But my Vit D will become dangerously low. Sure we can take Vit D tablets, but they have not proven to be as effective as natural vit D from the sun.

This problem can affect people in the northern US states and all Canadians, as well as UK people. So really, what should we do?? Maybe go out for 15 - 20 minutes in the sunshine unprotected...then, put on our protective gear. What do you do?

oh eck,.and here I am hiding from the sun today again but only because of the flushes.
I do go out for a couple of hours most days with the dogs and naughty me doesn't use sunscreen anyway, it seems what ever we do, we can't win.

There was a report on TV this last week saying that people don't use enough sunscreen anyway and they had worked it out that you need a least one bottle per day, say if you were on the beach.
So for a family of four on a weeks holiday, it was like a box full!!!! So a lot of people are wasting their time using it as they aren't using enough.
Well I give up, that stuff is so expensive anyway.

I will have to have natural Vitimin D then........I expected my one bottle of sunscreen to last all summer.
but seriously...........Thanks for that Floater, I hope you are recovering well from your surgery.
Sounds like sunglasses and hats are also the way to go.

best wishes
Caroline

Interesting topic Floater.......and an important one too.....

I was told by a sports medicine professional that ALOT of us are infact Vit D deficient these days. He has all his new clients tested for this when they present to him with pain issues and every single one of them tested very low for vit D and we are not in the sun deprived northern hemisphere. He told me that I only needed to get 5 mins of midday sun on each side of my body exposing as much skin as I could especially torso skin and legs and arms 3 times a week, fairer skinned people need less and darker skinned people need more. He said not to have any skin lotions or creams or sunscreens or anything on the skin at this time as it prevents the UV rays from interacting on the skin surface to make the vit D. It is sensible exposure to the sun that makes this work and at NO point are you to go pink at all. It is not necessarily the sun exposure that is making us get skin cancers it is the sun burning exposure that is making this risk higher. The natural way of obtaining vit D through the sun is the safest way to administer it into the body as the body only takes what it needs and disposes of the rest unlike if you take it in pill form. But you MUST be sensible about it and not be out there to get a tan or anything silly like that. I had been doing this this past summer and I have to say I felt ALOT better but it can take many years to get your levels back up to a therapeutic level in your body. Now it's winter here an I'm feeling low again. For some reason the winter sun doesn't have the same effect, something to do with it's position in the sky and intensity?? Low vit D levels is also linked with many auto immune diseases.

There has been a very good informative thread on here before about vit D maybe you could find it and revive it.

Rox

The last time I went to the Doc she said my results showed that I was low in Vit D and suggested just what you said... go out unprotected for 20 min a day.

I'm dark complected and tan easily and like Caroline, seldom wear sunscreen. (Too much hassle) I don't spend that much time outside anymore either, not like when I was young and worked on my tan... now if I go out, it's for yard work, play with the kids etc... When she mentioned it, I did make the effort to get outside daily but.. that only lasted about a week. Now I just go out when I need to. Of course it's 93 degrees now too. HOT!

I am trying to remember my sunglasses though... Didn't you just have surgery on your eyelid? I am legally blind in one eye so I can't afford to lose sight in the other one. I hope you are feeling better and there were no ill effects to your sight. Since you have had cancer already and I would think more susceptible to the sun, I think I'd just take a pill.. Which would be worse? VD deficiency or cancer?

I was diagnosed last year with psorisis. Not only are the UVB rays a good source of vitamin d, it is also supposed to be good for my psoriasis.

The dermatologist told me 10-15 minutes of unprotected sunning, 3 times a week, between the hours of noon and 3. That is when the UV rays are the highest. Also, do not bath or use lotion on your skin for at least an hour. Your body stores what it needs to get you thru the winter...when we dont get the sun.

UV rays are very strong this time of the year from april thru june. If you go to weather dot com, put in your zipcode, you will get your local weather along with the UV level, which is updated throughout the day

If you have just had a cancer, I would first ask your doctor. I wouldnt get even 5 minutes of sun, without asking.

I also believe that you can get UVBs even in the shade. The amount you get, depends on the type shade. If there was one tree in a field and you were under it, you would get more than if you were in a grove of trees. Beach umbrellas at the beach, give the most UV exposure..even tho you are shaded.

While we all like to do things the natural way..some people will resort to vitamin d pills. Once more, I would check with the doctor first before taking any suppliment vitamin d.

Hi Floater
Sorry to hear about your skin cancer surgery.. my mother had that too a while back.. the doc said it was caused by sun damage.
Beware of the midday sun! It is very strong.. I would suggest if you are going to go out without sunscreen for very short periods that you do it earlier or later in the day and keep it to short periods. I wait a little... about 10 mins or so before applying my sunscreen (unless the sun is very strong when it goes on straight away!) I go out without sunscreen on my arms when the sun is weaker but if you have had a skin cancer then you need to be careful.
Vitamin D can be obtained from food! Much much better than supplements...Only vegans who live in places with little sun need supplements....
Here is the iu of some foods.. the recommended amount is 200iu for up to 50 years and 400 iu for over.

Milk 1 cup 100 (so therefore there is also some in cheese & butter)
Egg yolk 1 25
Herring or trout, cooked 75 g 156
Mackerel, cooked 75 g 80
Salmon, Atlantic, cooked 75 g 225
Salmon, canned or cooked* 75 g 608
Sardines, Atlantic, canned 75 g 70
Sardines, Pacific, canned 75 g 360
Tuna, canned, light or white 75 g 41
Tuna, canned, yellowfin (albacore, ahi) 75 g 105
Tuna, skipjack, cooked 75 g 381
Tuna, bluefin, cooked 75g 690
Liver (sorry not sure of iu)
Cod Liver oil
Meat

HUGS Lindy xxxx

Oh dear Floats, what a situation!

I agree wholeheartedly that you should consult your dermatologist. This is the kind of question he/she should be able to answer.

Please try not to fret. As one of my dearest friends has shown me , things have a way of working out.

Love and hugs,
Marcy

Hi,
I live in the PNW where summer is yet to be seen or it was all of one week a month ago. I had a blood test which did show I was deficient in vit D. I was prescribed high doses initially (10,000 iu) then lowered to 5,000 iu for several weeks. I took another blood test and my level was within range (sorry, I don't know what that range exactly is). I am now on 2000 iu per day which I've heard on the news is an acceptable dose.

bless, did you have any side effects from taking such a high amount of vit D?

Floats:

Somewhere on these boards there is a post from Armadillo with the exact type of vitamin D one should take and, if I am not mistaken, the dosage. Perhaps later, when I don't have to rush out of the house, I can find it for you. You know Armadillo, one just has to look at her buff picture to know that she knows a bit about keeping our bodies strong.

Hope your eyelid continues to heal well - love pooks

Actually, 2000 IU is NOT a high amount. Newer studies have found that the recommended daily allowance of 400iu is absolutely useless for peri and post menopausal women. Especially those who live north or south of the tropical zone.

You need to take Vitamin D3, cholecalciferol, at least 1000IU every day.

Make sure it is cholecalciferol, and you must take it with at least 500mg of calcium to ensure good bodily absorption.

thanks Armadillo - on your "A" ame as usual

thanks Armadillo - on your "A" ame as usual


game - oy - i meant game

Thanks for the heads up Arm...I was taking 800mg of Vit. D3 & a 1000mg calcium, guess I'll up it some. I too have a dark complexion (tan in minutes in the sun), however, this spring we have a terrible problem with mosquitos, so it's almost impossible to be outside without being eaten alive. And because we keep having rain, then hot, rain then hot, there's a growing concern for the west nile virus...so you really can't win, can you?? I do try and sit by windows where the sun is shining in, it may not be as good as being out in the sun, but at least it might help a little.

Tay

PS - I never use tanning lotions either and have never had a sunburn, I just go from a normally darker skin tone to really dark. (I really do feel sorry for those with light skin, my bestfriend is so fair she's almost paper white.) Last year when I came home from mexico, I was so dark and she was so white, people could have actually sang Ebony and Ivory, and the song would have fit us perfectly...

Floater,

I did not notice any side effects when taking the Vit D at 2000 iu. Interestingly, when I was first diagnosed deficient and told to take the high dose (10,000 iu), I actually noticed I felt better - just an overall feeling of well-being. I told my husband about it and he started taking 1 capsule (5,000 iu) and he also noticed the difference in how he felt; we're both taking the same 2000 iu/day now. I suspected he must have been deficient too because we had just relocated here from a very sunny state - HI.

Bless...do you get the caps at a health food store? Wal-mart? Or are they a script? I know I always feel much better while I'm down in mexico because I'm always in the sun.... If you get them from a health food store or wal-mart, will you let me know?? I'd like to get some

Thanks
Tay

To benefit from UVB you need to be out 10-15 minutes when the sun is high...which is noon-3pm (eastcoast) Being out in the morning or late in the day..is not the same.

However, with health issues, I wouldnt even do this without consulting your doctor. This info was given to me by my dermatologist. I didnt take anybodys word for it. I didnt even ask...they told me.

How interesting. Just yesterday reading around I found an article of how beneficial vitamin D was for someone with Diabetes and Insulin Resistant. I have IR and I am planning on taking it right away. What I am finding interesting now is that I just came back from spending 3 months in Costa Rica where the sun is abundant. Not once there did I feel the aches and pains I feel here at home (Pacific NorthWest) Maybe vita. D deficiency?
Montana

Vitamin D helps with insommnia too. My daily multi-vitamin went from having 100% RDA of D to 200% and I started sleeping much better. I spent a few hours researching this on the web and learned that vit. D is good for our own natural melatonin (the sleep hormone) production.

I get a lot of magazines and have been reading that a lot of researchers think that 1,000 mg of D per day should be the bare miniumum. (My vitamin with 200% RDA provides just 800mg.)

Some information:

*Cholecalciferol is produced industrially by the irradiation of 7-dehydrocholesterol extracted from lanolin found in sheep's wool.
You are unlikely to be deficient in Vitamin D unless your diet is junk ... and you never go out in the sun in which case a supplement made from lanolin in sheeps wool may be better than nothing LOL
HUGS Lindy (Nutritional Adviser.. studying to be a Nutritional Therapist.. first course completed!)
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xxxxxx

I couldn't figure out how to edit my post above. I meant to say IU's and not mgs. for the vitamin D measurements.

Hi Tay,

Initially, I bought my vitamins from the medical clinic I frequented. This last time I bought my Vit D 2000 iu (non-prescription) from a discount vitamin store called Super Supplements but you should be able to find it just about anywhere like WalMart, a health food store or a pharmacy.

Cholecalciferol, aka D3 is also extracted from fish oil. If any of you drink milk in the USA, it is fortified with D and irradiated.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

This link contains other links to research, but here is a quick snippet:

If you totally avoid the sun, recent research indicates you need about 4,000 units of vitamin D a day. Which means you can't get enough vitamin D from milk (unless you drink 40 glasses a day) or from a multivitamin (unless you take about 10 tablets a day), neither of which is recommended.
Most of us make about 20,000 units of vitamin D after about 20 minutes of summer sun. This is about 100 times more vitamin D than the government says you need every day.
The only way to be sure you have adequate levels of vitamin D in your blood is to regularly go into the sun, use a sun bed (avoiding sunburn), or have your physician administer a 25‑hydroxyvitamin D test. Optimal levels are around 50 ng/mL (125 nM/L).
If you don't get vitamin D the way Mother Nature intended, from sunshine, you need to take supplemental vitamin D3 cholecalciferol. Since most of us get a lot more vitamin D from sunshine than we realize, most of us need about 2,000 units a day extra.

if we already get more than we need from sunshine ( I believe 15 minutes without sunscreen a day is sufficient), why do we need additional 2,000 units a day? I have read many studies on the vitamin D, and I believe 2000 IU a day is the limit even if it is D3 from fish oil. Too much of good thing is not always good, taking caps is not bad idea in winter, but I think our body has ability to "store" vitamin D, so if we get plenty of sun exposure during summer months, it should be enough for the cold/dark season. Also, Vit.D is manufactured from Cholesterol, so eating full fat dairy and fatty fish alone ( salmon, tuna), should provide plenty of vit.D, any excess may cause rather problems as brittle bones to begin with..as what I have read. Also, taking calcium supplements is another not such a great idea, as this calcium is poorly absorbed and if absorbed, may end up clogging arteries, rather than strengthening bones... Oh well, after years of taking calcium/magnesium/vit/D, I don't see much positive effect whatsoever, one thing is that I grew painful bone spur ( calcium deposit) on my right feet... so now I am very of any supplements now. I believe if we eat plenty of full fat dairy and get some sun exposure daily, this is all we need to get calcium and vit.D. In winter, oily fish does the trick, or some cod liver oil.
JMO

Hurrah Iradan!
I thought I was the only one here not in favour of supplements unless there is a real reason why the body needs them (eg for a medical reason due to poor absorption from the gut - vitamins can then be given via injections under medical supervision).
(Elderly people may need to supplement vitamin D if they don't get out in the sun and their digestion is poor.. however we AREN'T elderly!).
Our bodies are designed by Nature to get all of the nutrients we need from our food (and sunshine!). Our body even manufactures some vitamins in the gut!
We do not need all of these "synthetic" nutrients if we eat good healthy food....they have only been manufactured to replace the natural vitamins stripped out by processing and refining.
Too much calcium or Vitamin D by the way can also encourage kidney stones in people who are susceptical.
Taking high amounts of ANYTHING plays havoc with the balance of nutrients in the body and too much of one thing can cause a deficiency in another.
A dose of Cod liver oil would be a good way of obtaining vitamind D if you are concerned.
If your diet is poor by all means take a multi with the RDA in it ....but high doses.... no way would I go near them!
HUGS Lindy xx

You need to get a blood test to determine your Vitamin D levels, since we are all different.
I go out in the sun.
I eat a clean diet, which does contain plenty of D.
I exercise with intensity every day.

Yet, my blood levels show low circulating D. Why? Who knows?
I have been supplementing D for several years, since this initial test was done, and although I am now in the "normal" range, ( I am 18.0 ng/ml in a range of 16 to 74 ng/ml) I an STILL LOW after supplementation!

I urge you all to get bloodwork done before any type of supplementation.

Just like hormone supplementation, there is NO "One Sixe Fits All."

OOPS!!

That would be "One SIZE Fits All!"

Hey LIndy,
Agree 100%, all the boohoo with the supplements is the same as "tell your doctor" about this new drug on the TV . People do lose some ability to process B12 as we age and as we lose stomach acidity, and since majority of 40+ adults are on some kind of acid blockers, I am not surprised of B12 deficiency. But it can be easily balanced by once a month injection of Vit.B12, any other delivery system is useless for vitamin B-group, and any others as well, so if you want it, go for it, but better watch for acid blockers and eat plenty of good animal protein.
As for calcium, my DH developed kidney stones back in his late 20s as he was crazy about dairy and drank almost gallon a milk a day, on a top of other dairy...so since then he paid the price dearly, passing stones for few years non-stop and still has one sitting in his left kidney...lesson learned.
Vitamins and supplements are huge business in this country, everyone else in the world, ppl simply eat whole natural foods and not afraid to go out and get some sun exposure without slathering a tube of sunblock or wearing long sleeves.
Those who have vit.D deff. can simply include healthy sources like fatty fish with bones: canned sardines is the most inexpensive and great source of both omega 3 and vit.D, also canned salmon with bones, this way you have both calcium and vitamin D, if full fat dairy is not your favorite.
This is JMO, but seriously, I would rather spend my money on healthy, natural yummy food the best quality I can buy, then on the stinky ( literally) supplements that just go through my body burdening my liver and kidneys, and causing stomach distress, gastritis, and peptic ulcer, messing everything up, same goes for so highly prized magnesium... If you follow up with media, it all depends on how good is the sale going, it is either calcium is a must, or no, we found out that calcium is useless, or better yet, this is special calcium that works better, it is called "yogurt", LOL.
OK, enough, off the soap box, to each their own...
Hugs,
I.

What makes you think that "circulating" calcium should be high in your blood stream, to the contrary, high level of circulating calcium is trouble, it has to deposited where it belongs : BONES, not just float around sticking to arterial walls, injured joints, and turning into bone spurs, or causing heart palps if it is not balanced by magnesium, which has it's own dark side...
Our body can regulate the level of calcium, so unless you have sure signs of brittle bones by DEXA scan or simply you break bones often, then there is not reason to worry. All the blood tests, when it comes to the minerals are a bit deceiving, IMO, I tested mine many times and the results vary. Like I tested my ferretine once, and it was on the low side, but I am not anemic by any means. same goes for magnesium and calcium, and for calcium range is very strict.
If you are still low after supplementing, then it is another proof that supplements do lousy job, unless this calcium ended up someplace else. I agree, there is not one size fits all, supplement or not, it is personal, but I am not sure why we need to use mega doses of such a serious supplement, which is in reality "hormone" as vitamins D especially as we age, god knows where this supplements will be deposited: kidney, liver, or will draw more calcium to deposit into arterial walls....
One more thing, you need reasonable amount of old fashioned saturated fat for the vitamin D to be absorbed, MUFAs and PUFAs don't do the job as well as butter or lard, or coconut oil.
Again, it is all individual, so I just expressed my opinion. Most alternative drs who do test vitamin/minerals level also sell supplements, the "special" brand that has better absorption ability than the store bought....
Just a thought, one has never be careful with man made material unless it is whole food, "too much of a good thing" can be really harmful.
JMO, did not mean to offend you in any way.
Best,
I.

When I had my regular yearly checkup last year my doctor told me that my bloodwork showed I had a Vitamin D deficiency. He didn't prescribe anything, just told me to take a supplment. I take it 4 times a week, plus try to get outside at least 20 minutes a day, especially on those days when I don't really have a reason for spending time outside. Sometimes its just to fill up the birdbaths, sometimes its for a quick walk, just so I get some sun. I keep my diet healthy, eating fish at least twice a week. The doctor told me that eating liver occasionaly would be helpful, while at the same time telling me my cholesterol was a bit on the high side (220) and to stay away from such things. Sometimes you really feel torn about which way to go and what to do about things they come up with. I don't eat beef anymore at all, but try to replace it with the fish and vegetables that contain vitamin D.

Anna in Texas

Sorry,meant Vitmain D, not calcium, my poor meno brain, the vitamin D is most likely got absorbed into tissues, so it does not show as high in blood stream...
This is just my theory, as blood test got me in trouble few times too.

OMG, I am more confused than ever!

What to do?? I have been trying to be outside everyday, but of course it was socked in and raining for the last week! So much for that plan...I don't think sitting in the rain is going to produce much VitD!

I don't want to clog my arteries and get bone spurs from taking calcium and VitD. I am not convinced that in our climate, we could store enough VitD for our whole long winter. So, I can eat calcium in yogurt, which is dandy as I like yogurt and eat it often anyways. I don't drink enough milk to get the vitD I need. I am not a big fan of fish, mostly just tuna...to getting VitD from fish isn't gonna cut it either. So I am totally confused and don't know what to do......

But I do appreciate all the differing opinions and advice, just not sure what to do with it all.

Hugs

Watching an Oprah show the other evening Dr Northrupp mentioned it...
http://www.drnorthrup.com/news/vitamind_breastcancer.php

I know this is an older thread.......but just wanted to let you know that I started taking Vitamin D about 2 wks ago 1000units per day......I dont know if its all in my head or not but this past week I have felt so good!........I even have been sleeping so much better and my anxiety and moods are about 75% improved!......I read about vitamin D on this site and figured I would give it a try.......and I feel so much better.........I know that different things work for different ladies but just wanted to share my feelings with everyone...........have a great weekend............Valerie

We have something in common. First of all, a blood test revealed that I had a vitamin D defiency (so does my 21-year-old son). So I started taking a Vitamin D supplement and including more vitamin D rich foods in my diet. Getting more sun exposure is out of the question. I just had a cancerous tumor (basal cell carcinoma) removed from my face and had to have reconstructive surgery as a result. It's been 4 weeks now and I still have the ugly scar (in fact, I dressed as a pirate for Halloween - Got lemons, make lemonade, right?!!). Like you, I wear sunscreen, hats, and I carry an umbrella on the sunniest of days. I don't want to "go there" ever again.

One can be in the sun alot, eat healthy, exercise and still have a Vitamin D deficiency. That is my case.

I just got tested because I am 48, have osteoporosis in my lumbar spine and osteopenia in my hips. I also have a foot tremor. (This is a potentially very serious neurological symptom, so it motivated me to figure things out.)

My level was a 27 which is deemed "insufficient."

Deficiency: less than 20

Insufficient: 20-29

Optimum: 30-80 (some docs say over 50 is best)

When I was tested, I have been taking supplemental Vitamin D3 at 800 mg for a year. My "osteoporosis management" doctor, one of those docs on the "best doctor" lists, told me to take 400 more. I knew that wasn't enough.

I am now seeing a preventative medicine doctor who specializes in nutritional medicine and he put me on 5,000 mg of D3.
He is going to test me in a few months, and if I am not absorbing it properly in pill form, he is going to give me D3 intravenously.

My main point is that there is controversy over D3 right now and the necessary levels are being debated. As usual, conventional doctors are not caught up yet. Another crucial point is that, for some of us, sun light isn't an issue. I have been sailing in bright sunlight for weeks at a time, and on weekends, and I still "insufficient." Frankly, I think it is genetic.

wordsmith