Dear PS Ladies - Thank you, any and all, in advance, for reading my post here. I appreciate your support and feed-back.

Here is my fear . . . I'm afraid of developing an endometrial build-up, due to lower progesterone, which causes the estrogen to automatically be higher, at least at first (right? . . .).

What happened is that last year, after I had gone a couple months without my periods (which had been fairly regular until then), my doctor said that if it didn't start by the end of that month (it did, though), he would send me for test to check my hormones levels, and possibly put me on a type of progesterone (I'm assuming it would have been a synthetic, which I won't use).

He said that if the estrogen level stays higher than the progesterone level, there could be a build-up of the endometrial walls (or something like that!), and that it could lead to health issues ("c" of the endometrius, possibly), etc. He said that I would only take the progesterone (pill form, so I KNOW it would have been a synthetic type of progesterone) until my estrogen levels had also dropped and wouldn't be a problem to me (my endometrius). --- But, being that my period shortly resumed, I didn't have to worry about it, THEN, because my progesterone levels were obviously high enough to keep my periods going.

Okay . . . as a result of that conversation, PLUS reading various opinions that concur with my doc's opinion, I've become frightened of NOT having a period - that my endometrial walls could be dangerously thickening . . .

I'm currently about 40-50 days late, from my last period. But I find myself obsessing about my estrogen being too high . . . See, I don't know if it's low, and that my periods will never come back now (I kinda of doubt that, though, at this point, but I'm not sure) - or if it's too high now (being that my progesterone is low enough to not make my period come) and can cause a problem . . .

So, I've been reading Dr. John Lee's book ("What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause"), and he endorses NATURAL progesterone, in a cream form - used judisciously, of course. Last weekend I went to the local health-food store and found an OTC progesterone cream (one of the brands recommended in his book), BUT I didn't buy it . . . because there's a warning on the label of the box that says something like, "The State of California requires us to say that this cream contains progesterone, which has been known to cause 'c'." (I don't particularly like to spell out the "c" word.)

Well, what am I to think about this??? If I don't use progesterone, I could get "c" of the endometrius, but if I do use it , I'm exposing myself to that, also, right???

I just don't know. I don't know what to do. I will see my doc in Sept., for my regular appt., and I will discuss all of this with him, then. I might have a period by then, I don't know. If not, I'm sure he'll want to test my hormone levels. I don't know how he'll feel about my using natural progesterone cream, OR, not using anything at all.

I mean, what did women 100 years ago do?? Did they ALL get endometrial build-up, because they didn't use progesterone??

Gad sakes, this whole thing has me nervous. I'd rather not take anything at all, ideally, and let my body just stop producing periods, and I would try to get through the symptoms, as best as I could - and hopefully, not get sick as a result of not using any type of hormones.

Does anyone have any input on this? THANK YOU.

Well for a start I would demand that your Estrogen levels be checked at various stages of your cycle to determine whether in fact you are E dominant or E deficient now. There are various other means of trying to promote your own body to increase it's Progesterone levels like Vit E for instance. I read recently that Vit E promotes progesterone manufacture in the body and Estrogen depletes vitamin E so it's a viscous circle. I have a very old nutrition book written by Adelle Davis back in the 70s and in it it has a very short section on menopause, surprise surprise, and she advocates the use of Vit E for hot flashes and especially if Estrogen is given at this time. Also 'Chasteberry' or 'Vitex Agnus Castus' as it's otherwise known as is another Progesterone promoter in the body. I had an awful experience with Progesterone cream over 2 yrs ago which sent me into peri h*ll so I'm not a staunch advocate of it as it doesn't seem to be the wonder fix for everybody and if you are also declining in Estrogen adding in too much Progesterone alone will only unbalance the 2 even further with a swing the other way. Do some research on it and make an informed choice, this is one thing you can google , but use some alternative phrases in the search bar like 'Vit E and estrogen dominance' for starters. That way you get a broader range of information and may find what you are looking for. I found the Vit E info on a website promoting natural Progesterone cream.

Yes I agree what did women do 100 yrs ago and what will women do in another 100 yrs as I'm sure there will be some other new found opinion around then to what is best for our ever changing bodies. I'm bagsing coming back as a man so I don't have to worry about it LOL

Rox

I think what happens if you have endometrial buildup is that eventually your body will slough it out in a monster period -- hence the flooding and prolonged bleeding that so many of us have suffered from (see bleeding board).

You can ask for an ultrasound to show whether the endometrial wall is too thick -- I think that makes more sense than trying to measure how much estrogen and progesterone you have in your blood, because that fluctuates so much anyway. If it is too thick, then you can get a d&c to scrape of the excess (and also they test the cells removed to make sure there are no abnormal ones in the bunch -- it's a much more thorough way to check for cancer than the endo biopsy). A couple of years ago I went into panic mode because I was bleeding profusely for weeks at a time, and it turned out that my endo lining was thick, as shown in ultrasound. I had a d & c, which got rid of the buildup, and haven't had a problem with the bleeding since. There is another procedure called an endometrial ablation that removes the lining (burns it off), but if you are not having bleeding issues, then that would not be appropriate.

Honestly, I think if your body were having a problem with shedding the lining each month, it would at some point start the annoying and terrifying flooding behavior. It seems to me that your doctor was being irresponsible in alarming you about not having cycles, when it's normal for us to skip them during our forties. At the very latest he could have told you that an ultrasound is a painless and easy way to find out whether you have any buildup.

Best,
Witsend

This is exactly what happened to me about a year ago. I had hyperplasia. My period lasted 30 days. I took a bioidentical compounded progesterone every 3 months. This took care of the hyperplasia. Had endometrial biopsies to check on it. I no longer have the problem and do not take progesterone anymore. Really I don't think there is any need to worry unless you have a period that lasts a long time like I did.
Lavenderladywing

Thank you, ladies, for weighing in on this!

I guess I'll just have to bide my time and see how everything goes. Even though I've had the same ob/gyn for 31 years (and that should tell you all how "old-school" he is), I sometimes wish I had a female doctor.

Part of my problem is that I tend to be obsessive. And yes! - had my doctor NOT said anything to me about endometrial build-up, the thought NEVER would have crossed my mind! I've been obsessing about it for a year, living in dread of my periods NOT coming (instead of enjoying the break from them) and worrying when they're late.

Today I've felt fine - energetic, no symptoms (except a little mild burning in my arms, legs) - but can I enjoy it? No, no, I'm wondering what's happening with my endometrial lining.

If my period hasn't come by Sept. (when I'm due to see my doc), I'm definitely going to ask him to send me for tests to check and see what's going on in there.

I've never had a D&C, and that possibility kind of scares me . . .

I had endometrial cancer caused by estrogen dominance. If you had estrogen dominance bad enough to cause cancer then you would know it! You dont mention any of these symptoms-in fact you say you are feeling fine.
I had sore breasts all the time, suicidal depression, bloating ,nausea, food cravings, headaches, tearfulness exhaustion, mood swings etc- and REALLY BADLY. I also was not having regular periods -, they seemed to be winding down but I had bits of spotting and my main symptom was a really heavy watery discharge all the time.
I used that OTC progesterone cream that John Lee recommends for years and it didn't stop the estrogen dominance or the cancer.
With hindsight I wish I had been given the chance to take some proper progesterone but it was never offered to me.
I would recommend anyone who is concerned about endo build up to ask their doctor if they could take a course of progesterone to clear it out. I say again though-you dont say you are feeling any of the symptoms of estrogen dominance. It sounds to me like you are just getting to the end of peri and that your periods are winding down. They have to stop at some point!
If you are worried then an endometrial biopsy is a very quick procedure done in the doctors office. You wouldnt necessarily have to have a D&C. I just had a biopsy and an ultrasound scan.
It really doesnt sound like you have anything to be concerned about though
janet c

In 2006 & 07 I had ultrasounds every 6 months due to a thick lining. Soon as the doctor wanted to do a D&C I would have a bleed and back to normal it would go. Late last year I started flooding and ended up having a D&C anyway.
Everything was normal and the D&C was a piece of cake. I would say try not to worry until something happens like heavy bleeding, even then have your doctor order a ultrasound, the new digitals ones are great!

Thank you for this post, Janet. I really, really lean on the support of the kind posters here, like you.

No, I can't really say I've had suicidal depression, constant sore breasts, nausea, food cravings, the intense exhaustion, etc. I HAVE had occasional sour moods, some arm/leg burning, occasional fatigue, urethra discomfort (not constant) - but I can't say that I've had anything really, really horrible . . . yet.

The thing is, until very recently (40-50 days ago), I was quite regular with my periods (with only an occasional blip, here and there), so I don't know what to think here - OR what to expect. --- On one hand, natural progesterone is recommended and seems to work for some people. But, other people say it doesn't work for them, for one reason or another. Then, some reports say that synthetic progesterone is harmful (as is estrogen) - yet, the box for the OTC progesterone cream carries a warning label, too!

I just don't know what to think.

BTW, I hope YOU are doing alright and are well past your medical problems.

Thanks, Snowmoon. I guess I'll just have to take this, one step at a time, but it just scares the heck out of me. It's a journey into the unknown here . . . and there are so many, different, often frightening stories, that I'm just overwhelmed.

I tend to be obsessive, anyhow, which doesn't help matters for me. So, I really and truly appreciate everyone's advice, personal account, etc.

BTW, I LOVE your "Native American" saying there . . . It is so beautiful and moving. I had read it, after coming across one of your posts recently, and today I was trying to remember it, so that I could quote it for my son (he's an animal lover).

"Thank you for this post, Janet. I really, really lean on the support of the kind posters here, like you.
I hope YOU are doing alright and are well past your medical problems."

Hi there and thank you

Just to let you know that I am doing very well- and testament to the fact that endo cancer is completely curable if caught early enough !
I was like loads of ladies on this site during peri-terrified of every little symptom that might suggest cancer. I applaud all of you who are vigilant of anything suspicious because early detection MEANS complete cure-as in my case. I had A TAH including ovaries and no further treatment-just checks every 6 months for 3 years and then yearly checks for 2 years.
I am now at 2 1/2 years and all fine.
I would say to any lady worried about any strange symptom-Dont sit and obsess and worry endlessly about it, go and have it checked out. And even if your doctor says it's nothing to worry about-as mine did in the beginning, go with your instincts because they can be right and insist that the necessary checks are done. Nine times out of ten there will be nothing but if you are one of the unlucky ones, the sooner it is caught the more likely it can be completely cured.
Peri is a terrible time for anxiety so dont let worry get the better of you!
janet c

Isn't that what is supposed to happen? We skip periods? Then stop completely? Maybe I'm not understanding, but eventually your periods are going to become less frequent or just stop entirely and that is normal and natural. That is the whole point of menopause--the periods stop. You won't necessarily have any endometrial build-up.

In your first post, I did not see any reason your doctor suspected an endometrial build-up. You weren't tested, right? Not an ultrasound, not an estrogen level?

The reason the periods stop is because the body does not produce enough estrogen to build up the lining. You can't have a period without enough estrogen.

Like someone else mentioned, you can find out exactly how thick your lining is with a simple transvaginal ultrasound.

I have probably just not understood what you mean.

Good luck, and don't worry.

Wow! i too get obsessive about anything the doctor says. I know how you feel.
Just reading your post got feelings of anxiety started! I have a checkup coming and dread it. Always afraid they will find the "c".
Even though i am healthy. Thin, athletic, and eat great. I had my general appointment last week and am anxious over not receiving the blood test results yet, even though i know no news is good news. he would only call if there was a problem.

The peri is AWFULLLLLLLLLLL
The anxiety, then depression, teary feelings, then anger, then rinse and repeat.

I started all this last year with the anxiety turning to panic attacks. My doctor wanted to try HRT, but he wasnt specific enough for me about what the side effects could or could not be. So i opted for Lexapro just to calm me down.

that worked, for a year, now the feelings of anxiety are back. I am now 50, i think that has something to do with it. I fear getting OLD.

I only "skipped" one period so far, and the following one was pretty heavy, but not flowing or anything.

I take an Ativan on mornings i wake up with anxiety and racing thoughts. That helps, but usually the next day it all starts again.

I should start my period tomorrow, or soon after. I hope that relieves this last bit of "emotional rollercoaster" i have been having.

How can we TAKE all this?

Also on top of it all, 3 of my closest friends are moving. 1 is already gone, to Chicago, 1 moving to Guam and 1 moving to Germany in 7 months.
they are military wives. i feel i am losing my support system. Thank GOD for this forum.

i havent gotten close to any of you, yet, but i feel close just reading these posts.
It really makes you feel better when you see you are not crazy and are NOT the ONLY one going through all this.

Claire Weekes book helps, but, i feel hopeless when it doesnt work for me RIGHT NOW!!!!
guess that is my obsessiveness too! healing is supposed to take TIME. i want it NOW

I have always been anxious, especially about health, even as a child the "c" would scare me because i had a very special aunt die (on my fathers side) of "c", plus my mom, dad and brother, all heavy smokers, died of lung "c".
I have never smoked, but, "second hand smoke" has me running scared too!
its no wonder we get so paranoid over the "c"

I dont think life is meant to be one big scare event. no wonder i dont like scary movies.
ANYWAY,
Lets all stick together and use these posts to calm our anxiety and feel like we are a PART of something! My husband and son are understanding as they can be, but they really dont KNOW what i am going through. YOU GUYS DO!!!!
I LOVE YOU ALL even though we have not met.
HUGS, HUGS HUGS and more HUGS
thanks for letting me pour out my heart!
Lulubell

Thank you for your comment, DesRothchild. I really appreciate all of the support here, from all the wonderful women.

As to the endometrial build-up (when my doc mentioned that as a possible outcome of "unopposed" estrogen), I've been terrified of it, ever since. What he said is that sometimes the estrogen level stays up, while the progesterone drops - and that is apparently where problems might start. He DID say that if the estrogen level is low enough, any added progesterone (via a pill - which I won't take - or a cream, which I might consider) won't make the lining shed, because the estrogen is already too low.

Oh, gads, I don't know what to think. I am trying not to worry. I guess I will see what happens between now and my appointment in Sept.

Again, thanks for your reassurance. It's just such an uncertain time - and, so many things could happen - AND, I tend to be a worrier - that I have anxiety.

Oh, Lulubell! - I could have written this post, because you expressed my thoughts, EXACTLY. I'm going through about the same thing you are. I was regular all last year (except for that 2-3 month time, when my period didn't come) - and I've been regular this year, until last month. Now, I sit and wait . . . no period, yet, and wonder if I'm alright.

I've had several health scares, too, and I ALWAYS worry about "c." My mother had "c" of the uterus, back in 1962, and was given about six months to live. She is now 81. But, because she went through such a harrowing experience, I always fear it, too.

HUGS, HUGS, HUGS back to you!!!!

I'm soooo sorry your dear friends are leaving. I don't really have any "girl" friends in my life - women friends, I mean. Well, my mother is my friend, but I mean women who are more my age. I'm such a private person, so I guess that's why. But anyhow, I am VERY THANKFUL for this board and the women here. Honestly, I would be alone, with no one to talk to about all of this, if it weren't for this board.

Thank you for your sweet response. I hope your tests are all fine. Next Weds., I am scheduled for a "routine" colonoscopy. Of course, the anxiety is creeping up on me. It's all I can think about (except for my possible endometrial build-up).

I wish us, and everyone else here, well.

Hi Bugaboo.

Don't think I don't know how much we can worry, because I am very gifted at worry, lol! But in your case, I really, really don't see the slightest need for any.

From everything I have ever read, and from my own gynecologist, when you have endometrial build-up, you get symptoms. My wonderful, former gynecologist said, "It'll talk to 'ya." Usually very heavy periods, lots of bleeding, since you don't have the progesterone to stop the build up.

I just think your doctor is all wet! We all get non-ovulatory periods where we won't have any progesterone since no egg was released.

If you don't have that period by September (I think you said), it'll just mean you are getting close to menopause, and soon you won't have any at all. It is kind of shocking when they stop. My last one will be a year ago either August or September.

As for "c" of the uterus, that's one of the most curable of all cancers. Usually very slow growing. That's why your mother is still here!

I checked by in tonight to see how you were doing, because I so relate.

Take care!

Des

P.S. If you have to take progesterone and don't want the artificial (horrible) progestins, there is bioidentical Prometrium. It's a pill, but exactly like our bodies make. You probably already know all of that, but I thought just in case you or anyone else might not know.

Hi, DesRothchild!!! Thanks for the sweet, supportive comments. I sure hope I'm okay. I hope we're ALL okay.

No, I haven't had unusually heavy bleeding. My period is very late (50-60 days? I've lost count). Anyway, I'm just hoping nothing is awry down there in my female parts.

Yes, this IS shocking. It is shocking to not have a period, especially since my periods have been VERY, VERY regular for 38+ years. And now, I don't know what to expect . . . well, except to expect the unexpected.

And no, though I've heard of bioidentical progesterone, I wasn't familiar with the pill form, "Prometrium." Is that a pill that requires a prescription? Also, did I ask you if you have taken any form of HRT, either synthetic or bio-identical? Maybe you said so, in your post above, but I can't remember.

Anyhow, thanks for your support. Again, I just don't know what to think about all of this (this change I'm going through) -- it IS shocking.

Yes, I have taken Prometrium, off and on when I was using Estrogel (which is also bioidentical and you rub it on). I'm kind of on again, off again, because I'm not sure it helps (but I don't take much because I'm paranoid, lol!)

That is exactly what happened to me over the last few years: I had a period maybe every two months or every three months, then maybe they'd skip for 4 months. Now, some women just stop all at once. Like my mother. But noooo, not me, it has to be TOTALLY unpredictable, right?

It is so trying, really. And I hate to say it got worse for me symptom-wise when the periods appeared to stop (hopefully for good, but I need to go another couple of months to make it to the 12-month rule). THEN the hot flashes from He!! came--at night. When you have bad sweats, my doctor said, you are REALLY out of estrogen (and my blood tests show super low estrogen levels).

Are we having fun yet??