I was in a group tennis drill. The darn hot flash came on about ten minutes after we started and it really threw me for a loop. I mentioned it, in an off-handed way, to someone in the group--a woman in her late 30's I'd guess--and she told me just to hit the ball harder, use the energy, it was all in my head. Words like that.

I had no clue how to respond. I mumbled something and kept playing. The remark didn't affect how I played, but it was on my mind after. Why would someone say this? Did I embarrass her by mentioning the flash? Is this still something you don't talk about in public? Why are there constant commercials about erectile dysfunction but discussions about hot flashes are still taboo? Nobody I know talks about flashes, outside of this forum. Why?

I share your frustration and resentment CW.

I don't know a single non-PS woman who has had a single meno symptom. Now given how many women I know (a lot, I will tell you), how likely does that seem?

For some reason, women continue to keep this subject under wraps. I personally talk about it in mixed company and don't blink an eye.

I am really sorry you had such an unpleasant experience. I imagine the age of the speaker did not help matters. But in my own experience, even women my own age do not speak of menopause.

It is time to stage some sort of revolution. I only wish I knew what it is.

Very best,
Marcy

Oh my, that does aggravate me!! I mean, honest to goodness...what is the problem with menopause?? If we live to be a certain age, we are gonna have it! So why is it some deep dark secret. The only thing I can figure is younger women don't want to hear about it!! And older women are ashamed of it, or something? Why be ashamed? Do women think they are now less of a woman? I mean, whats the deal??

I think menopause should be taught just the menstration is! And women should be prepared for what can happen. So middle aged women aren't suddenly suffering from "nervous breakdowns" and are treated for their real condition.

I could rant about this subject for a long time, as it really bugs me a lot!! WE as woman HAVE to make this subject acceptable! I saw one TV commercial regarding meno symptoms....where a woman in her jammies, housecoat and slippers ran outside and dove into a pile of snow and melted it right down to the grass...OMG, I laughed when I saw that commercial. And it disappeared off the air very quickly, I think it was deemed inappropriate and was removed. How sad is that?? It continues to be a taboo subject! But not for me, I will talk about it, mention it, bring it up in conversation....I want people to KNOW!!

i have no words.. as hot flashes are one of my worst symptoms, and they are bad enough to melt snow too, i am just flabbergasted.. i hope that woman has at least one doozie of a hot flash when it's her time..

Ditto that Zen!!!!! That gal better watch out or all the crones here will cast the flashing curse upon her!

I say we stone her!!

Seriously though.....when I am hotflashing I let everyone around me know.......it's the only way to explain why my reading glasses are slowly slidding down my hot sweaty face.....when everyone around me is shivering!! I also use the term 'brain fog' when I can not remember the simpliest of things. It amazes me how many women ....(when they hear me use the words....'hotflash' or 'brain fog') .....chime in....that they CAN relate.

I am not a shy person and I have NO qualms with sharing my hot flashing and brain fog moments with those that I come into contact with on a daily basis. Perhaps because most of my clientelle are in my age group, or perhaps because I say it in a humourous tone.......but regardless.....I for one will not allow one person.... man, woman or child....to deprive me of my Meno-Mama Rights to share in the glorious adventure of Menopause!!

And yes that IS sarcasm that you hear in my voice

Taboo? The very mention of THAT word makes me want to run naked through the streets with a protest sign. If you tell me that something is 'taboo' the rebel WITH a cause comes out in me!!

I am MENO WOMAN ~ HEAR ME ROAR!!!


Dottie

I knew you guys wouldn't let me down!

I used to think that person was nice, and I've told other people that. Maybe she showed her true self. Yeah, I hope she has has a meltdown that will make her think of what she said to me. I don't want to be mean, but what she said was cruel and stupid, as far as I'm concerned. I'm kind of getting mad, now that I've had time to reflect on how it made me feel.

I don't want anybody telling me I can't talk about what's going on with me, especially when I don't whine about it or expect THEM to do something about it. It's not like I'm spreading something contagious. Maybe she'll show up at tennis tomorrow and I'll show her a thing or two! Yeah, I'm almost 52 and I can still rock it, hot flash and all!

Dottie! XOXOXXOXOXOXOXOXOXO!

My inner child must be a pyromaniac!

Crazy, Zen, Floater, Dot, Mal--Thanks! This is the best I've felt in a long time. I'm glad you guys are here!

Hi - I wonder if some women feel uncomfortable talking about this subject because to go from young vibrant warrior princesses to this is somewhat shocking and slightly disturbing to our egos? Many womem feel uncomfortable appearing weaker and looking and acting older? I admit it here and now that when I was young, I thought that some women used the symptoms as an excuse for their bad behaviour. I truly hadn't lived my life as yet and clearly I had no empathy or understanding whatsoever.

Her day/ze will come.

Suz

I know for a FACT....that mine is....that little devil .....hehehehehe

I would be ...pardon the pun here......STEAMING ....mad at her! She was rude, unsympathetic, and quite frankly....ignorant! If a tennis ball bounces into her eye causing it to swell....is that also considered...ahem.... all in her head? Hmmm....just a thought She better wear shades....baby! Ya don't make a Meno -Mama .............MAD!!
Silly Wabbit


((((((HUGS))))))
Dottie

My inner child is playing with a #%*&@!% Howitzer
– somebody stop her before she starts WWIII

Chocolate,

None of my friends discussed it either, until I did. Of those closest to me, two hadn’t begun and two had surgical meno. Can’t deny having that, so they were willing to swap notes as one was looking for natural relief (opium?) and the other was all for drugs or anything else that made her feel part of the human race. Our prattling has made it easier for the others to at least ask, and have some idea of what’s what.

I wish someone had told me.

Dot, you rock!! run naked through the streets.....

I think she would have had a tennis racquet wrapped round her head, if it had been me!!

I find that if you have not experienced an illness or certain symptoms, you don't really know what a person is going through. I certainly have a different outlook on people with depression now, having been in the pits myself over this past two years. As others have said, I hope she evenually gets a good taste of what peri is like.

Hi I am forty just, i know women who are alot older than me,and they have nothing wrong with them.i have two sisters for a start they seem to have nothing and me everything and i am fed up with being the only one outside here, so its probably hard for these people to understand how bad it can be when they experience nothing, you find people like that if they havent got it then it doesnt exist.

Oh yes this really gets me going as well. I had a bad spell of night sweats last year and decided to go and see a different GP in my local practice.

The only woman GP in the practice.

I thought surely she would be full of sympathy and full of wisdom and reassurance. She would use words like 'menopause' and 'oestrogen' and 'fluctuation' and........most importantly..........she would then say....... 'solution'

After I'd explained the ritual of waking up feeling as if I was on fire, quilt off, quilt on, hang legs out of bed, freeze, put legs back in. Fall asleep. Wake up.......etc etc.

She looked at me and said:

'Well if you go to bed expecting to get warm you will do'

Hand me a tennis racket someone

Suz, I think you are right on. I have had bad experiences with friends seemingly judging me because of my peri. One actually said she thought I needed to be on psychiatric medication! She also said, "I think it's sad that you're not the person you were back in college." Yea, it is sad...grrrrrr! I think younger women just don't understand peri and are clueless, as I was. I am on the young end, 42, and my friends are busy with babies and toddlers, so meno is the furthest thing from their mind.

I am now afraid to talk to friends about peri. I'm afraid they'll think I'm a hypocondriac. I'm afraid they'll think of me as weak, even though I used to be very strong and actually should be considered strong for surviving this peri stuff. I would dread mentioning anxiety to friends, as they might think I'm nuts and need medication. So it is the lack of compassion and understanding among my friends that has me keeping my mouth shut. Maybe if I was older, and my friends were going through meno too, it would be different?

I agree, our society is messed up about meno, and it is time for a revolution!

Here you go. Have at it!
http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path...13/RQCL0058.jpg

I make it a point not to whine about illnesses or make excuses, so I don't need it thrown back in my face. I also don't need anyone trying to embarrass me about something that is real and a part of my life. Just because you can't relate doesn't give you the right to try and make me feel bad. Yeah, we need a revolution! I'm not going to apologize for not being 25 anymore.

thankyou chocolate woman and well said

How did I miss this thread? You gals are right on target with this one. None of my friends will acknowledge or discuss menopause. One even told me that there is "no way" I'm in menopause...it's all in my head (really...the lack of periods for 13 months is all in my head??) I think menopause is thought of as something that happens to very old women...

Here's a concrete example: Anyone remember an old episode of Seinfeld when Elaine had to get her urine tested for a trip she was going to take abroad with her boss? The joke was that she tested positive for opiates...turns out it was trom the poppy seed muffins she ate every day. Anyways, she needed a 'clean' sample and convinced Jerry's mother to pee in a cup for her. The results came back "Elaine you exhibit all the health problems of a 68 year old woman. Oh yes, and you're in menopause." 68 years old and in menopause??? Huh??? By 68 years old, most women are 10 years post-menopausal. See the misconception? And this was from a top rated TV show catering to supposedly an educated viewership.

The media hasn't done women any favors with how they protray 'the change.' Edith Bunker went through it in one day. One Day?????

There was ONE tv show...what was it...oh yeah, The Closer, with Kyra Sedgewick. She was having horrible hot flashes, sweating, and irritability. She went to the doctor to find out she was in perimenoapuse...and it was awful because she was newly engaged and thinking about having children.

That's part of the problem, isn't it? Everyone is confused. Are your mid-forties to mid-fifties a time when you're wrapping up your reproductive years or starting them? That guy in the news...the one that is pregnant (transgendered female who kept her uterus) is 45 years old. When I was a kid, any woman over 35 who was pregnant was considered unusual. Paula Abdul is 45 and she keeps talking about how she's "finally ready to be a mother." (Okay, so she's not exactly a great example of stability...but you get my point.) Didn't Diane Sawyer have twins at 52?

60 is the 40. 40 is the new 20. What's going on here?

And chocolate; you are to be applauded for holding your tongue. I would have let her have it!!!

RR, the only reason I didn't let her have it is because I was surprised that it came from her. She has always been really nice to me in the past. Also, I just thought that anyone who would say something so stupid was beyond reaching anyway.

You said so many good things. Thanks!

I don't know much about.......severe allergies.
I don't know much about...... epilepsy
I don't know much about...... diabetes

I don't know much about a LOT of things.

BUT......I DO know how to be...empathetic....sympathetic......and caring about those that are suffering.....those that have disabilities......and those that are in pain.
I am SICK and TIRED of people who are so self absorbed, so self indulgent and so selfish as to only care about their own wee space.

You ARE to be applauded chocolatewoman........
Dottie

I have been told to "just **** it up",it can't be that bad,or my favorite,I never heard of it being that bad.It make s me want to slap someone,then I want to cry cause of my emotional roller coaster.No one understands except for the ones suffering through it and a few loving family members,and even they really don't understand cause we all suffer in our own unique way.Thats why when I see a post on this board and no one has answered I try to at least tell that person,"hey I hear you,hope you find answers,and tell them GODbless,cause I know what it means to have someone actually believe me and care.This board has helped me so many times,like tonight,it has helped me release some pent up fear,anxiety,and sadness.May GODbless every woman who has ever been ashamed when they felt that familiar heat creeping up their bodies,or suddenly started tearing up while in a meeting,or talking to a teacher at their childs school(I did this)or had a horrible panic attack and thought they were dying only to be poo-pooed by an er dr who needs more bedside manner.GODbless you all-I love ya!!!!

I suppoooooose only a v naughty person would suggest slipping this woman 500mg of niacin, and then telling her the effects are in her head, soooooo I won't suggest it.

And only an equally naughty person would write this down on a sticky note so she won't forget the correct "dosage!"

RR, I am a huge Seinfeld fan! Yes I remember that episode.

Now the celebrities that want to have babies at 45-55?
1. they froze their eggs years ago
2. Donor eggs
3.?

Ready to finally have a baby at 45!!! Wow! I had my son at 38 and feel like I am pushing it. Mostly because he has a Mom with 35+ peri symptoms

Celebrities who have babies in their forties and fifties have nannys who do most of the work for them. The average woman would have a h*** of a time dealing with a small child AND menopause!

The guy on Oprah Show is 34 - not 45 (quote below from wiresmash.com)


Transsexual Thomas Beatie 34 years old really just shocked the world when a picture was released showing his bearded face and growing belly.

I had my first one week after I turned 41 and my second at age 44.

kate,

I think that is amazing! You must have had a very interesting life, to have had your children so late! I had my first child at 18 and my last one at 29. My first grandchild was born when I was 35, my second grandchild when I was 40 and the last one when I was 43. I think it is just so interesting how different our lives have been kate. I am now 47, menopausal and having fun grandparenting....whereas you are parenting! I couldn't imagine having little kids at this point in my life, but I bet you couldn't image having 4 of them by the time you were 29 either!

What fun things did you get to do in your 20s and 30s, while I was stuck at home being a mom?? I mean that with complete sincerity, you must have had SUCH fun!! I could have fun now, but need to wait until I feel better, not that I am as bad as I was a few months ago...but I am still pretty cautious.

I find it fascinating how diverse our lives, our backgrounds, our locations are here, and yet we all have being female and peri/meno in common!

Hi Floater,

Thanks for your reply. I had my children late mainly because I married late! And, THAT was because my now-DH and I dated FOREVER.

I think there are pros and cons to both (having them young/having them late).

You are right in that I had a blast during my 20s and 30s. Until I bought my first home when I was 31yo, I shared apartments/houses with various girlfriends and you can imagine how much fun we all had.....no husbands, no kids, no real commitments except our jobs . So many trips to the beach...

I remember how I used to think I was "busy." HA> i would come home from work and go to Jazzercise, watch TV, cook only if I wanted to...

BUT - I really wanted to get married and have kids. Both my sisters married in their early 20s and now their children are ages 18-22. My kids are 7 and 10. My brother has a DD who is 11, but she is the only cousin close in age to my kids. Same with most of my friends. While they are putting their kids through college, I've got grade school kids .

Their houses are also beautifully decorated and SPOTLESS. Meanwhile, I have to clear a path through my house just to walk through it.

Sometimes I wish I"d had my kids younger. But then I would have had different kids! They keep me young and I suppose they force me to take my mind off of peri/meno. I'm just happy to have 'em because I've always wanted children - love them so much - and there was a time when I didn't think I was going to. Didn't know I was Fertile Myrtle. My husband and I said that if we had married earlier< we"d probably have a dozen>

kate I am with you. I didnt marry till i was 35. It really took that long for DH and I to find each other. We both dated, etc. Got a lot out of our systems. We had DS when I was 38. got preggo quick. in about 2 to 3 months. It was very difficult hitting peri when he was 2. I didnt know what was going on and wondered if I was dying. We wnated a 2nd child, but I guess our bodies said "no more".

When you have a little one in peri, you just keep going. But it is a life that you grow accustomed to. That is why I have to be on an AD, because I HAVE to be there fully for DS.

Hi Peri1961 , Kate, and all you lovely ladies, I had my daughter when I was 36, now 50 and my daughter is almost 15...talk about hormones. If I knew peri and raising a teenager was so hard, I really would have had her at a younger age, I'm thinking 30, but didn't get married until I was 31 and waited several years before getting pregnant.

Plumeria

Yes I too had a baby at 39 - I was thinking that my older son who I had at 31 shouldn't be without a sibling and also I just love babies. Now I have a ten year old and am in the thoes of the peri-monster - I feel somehow guilty because he's not getting the mommy he could have had before peri - but how much can we blame ourselves? My husband says I am a wonderful mother and my sons tell me the same but still I can help but feel a bit guilty. Why are we so hard on ourselves?

Pooks

I think there is something to being older. Even in the positive. More stability in some ways. More established. I had no clue that peri exisisted when I had my son. I thought around 48 yrs old I would go to my Obgyn and inform him. It happened at 41.

I love my little boy so much it hurts. I never knew how hard emotionally being a Mommy would be. Mix that in with peri-wowza!

plumeria, that is just too much hormone fluctuation for anyone!!!! Maybe you two can relate? Dont know? I know I had anxiety, insomnia, etc as a teenager. Little did I know it was my hormones. Noone told me then either.

Peri1961, it is hard on both of us I think. My daughter has very short cycles and talk about PMS, the last cycle she said she could not sleep and felt overwhelmed with "five hundred things to do"... I almost cried because I know exactly how she feels... I told her it was just her period, things will get better and gave her 2 advil PMs and she was better in the morning. I truly hope when she goes through meno that more advances will be made in the medical community to deal with this.

I think a lot of her PMS symptoms can be alleviated with better nutrition, which I stress and set good examples but the teen years are so hard in that they THINK they know everything and do not listen.

Plumeria

I had a friend whose husband doubted her "so called hot flashes".

One day they were both in the car and she had a major hot flash. The window on her side immediately fogged up.

The husband never doubted that symptom again!!

I know a 73 year old lady who told me that she does not believe in menopause..............She had asked why I was getting chubby, and I told her I was going through the change, I also told her that I had trouble sleeping and hot flashes. She told me it was all in my head. I truly wish that she is right..........But we all know that she is not!
Some girls just get off easy.
Carolyn

I would never tell a 73 year old woman she was imagining getting older. Why in the world would she say anything about your weight, or tell you that you are imagining your insomnia and hot flashes? That is just so incredibly rude! When I was a lot younger and I read or heard things about hot flashes and such, instead of blaming the women who suffered I wondered why something couldn't be done to help them. Now I'm wondering the same thing for myself. How sad that women cannot support each other in this life transition.

this women is someone i would not want to play tennis with again or ever be friends with. she assuredly has no idea what meno is like, and neither did we at 31. but that was a very ignorant thing to say because how can a hot flash that happens in your body with probable instant perspiration be in your head. i have heard people just like her say to snap out of your depression" and that really angers me. i am a therapist and i look at people like that and say "before making a statement like that, go read a book or an article on the internet about depression and in your case, hot flashes. maybe you can print out an article on hot flashes and give it to her. Hugs breann maybe hot flashes are taboo because women who have them and other symptoms are too embarrased to talk about them.. so keeping talking and educate people and maybe soon there will be commercials on hot flashes and every other meno symptom. we are the baby-boomers and there are a lot of us going thru peri-meno and meno. now is the time for public awareness. lol breann

this women is someone i would not want to play tennis with again or ever be friends with. she assuredly has no idea what meno is like, and neither did we at 31. but that was a very ignorant thing to say because how can a hot flash that happens in your body with probable instant perspiration be in your head. i have heard people just like her say to snap out of your depression" and that really angers me. i am a therapist and i look at people like that and say "before making a statement like that, go read a book or an article on the internet about depression and in your case, hot flashes. maybe you can print out an article on hot flashes and give it to her. Hugs breann maybe hot flashes are taboo because women who have them and other symptoms are too embarrased to talk about them.. so keeping talking and educate people and maybe soon there will be commercials on hot flashes and every other meno symptom. we are the baby-boomers and there are a lot of us going thru peri-meno and meno. now is the time for public awareness. lol breann

also i want to say that i have had a horrible journey thru peri-meno and still having problems. i feel determined to get this message out there to women who will be experiencing the same thing some day. the medical profession has to recognize this as a serious problem. there have been women who have committed suicide because of their symptoms. my friend was one of them. Breann

That is so sad! I go back and forth about whether to be militant and get in their faces, or just pretend the callous and ignorant people don't exist. I don't want them in my world, but I don't want women to suffer needlessly, either. I'm glad PS is here. Truly don't know where I'd be otherwise. Locked up in a padded room, no doubt!

That is sad that women have been driven to suicide by menopause symptoms, but not really a huge surprise....especially for those who get the mental and emotional symptoms!! I know of a woman in my town who quit working, and when I asked her employer why, he said she had a nervous breakdown and can't leave her house....I said, how old is she, between 45 - 55?? And he said, well I would guess about 50ish!! I said to him, OMG, she is going through menopause!!!

I honestly wish I knew her, as I feel I could offer her some support. I hope she figures out what her problem is!!

As for our imaginary symptoms, they certainly can wreck havoc on our lives considering they "aren't real" and are "all in our heads", don't you think???? What kills me, is how do we "manifest" hot flashes, when many of us started having them completely unexpectedly?? I mean mine started in my early 40s....I didn't expect to feel them till I was nearer to 50!! They came anyways and I certainly didn't even think about them, until they arrived!!

I feel some people think I should feel shame for having gone through menopause, but I don't!! Feeling shame over something that is part of the natural life cycle is stupid!!! And I don't feel I am a "dried up old crone" either ( I loved that line!!!).

I think this thread needs resurrecting as SO many of us just don't get believed or they think that a 'hot flush' is just something that makes you a bit hot and shouldn't make you 'make such a fuss'. Well if those that don't have hot flushes knew what they are really like they wouldn't say such things. Do you find yourself being belittled? Ignored for complaining? Told that 'It REALLY shouldn't last THIS long' ! And then there are all the other symptoms......tingling, palps etc which get you into really hot water if you mention them!
Its HELL. So why can't we get a bit of understanding from the medical profession! I get so fed up with them at times. There aren't enough menopausal doctors out there doing something, that's the trouble. There's got to be a better solution than HRT or Bioidenticals. Why are we crying in the wilderness? No wonder the older generation never mention the menopause......you could get locked up for it! No wonder the feckless husband goes off with a younger model! God help her when it's her turn. Just venting sisters!

Dear'antique'
Am behind you all the way.It was Hell for me at 39 and fully Menopausal.Everyone,including myself thought I was having a nervous breakdown.Insomnia,losing weight-food made me gag. ,strange phobias,deep depression to the point of feeling suicidal.The first port of call was a Psychiatrist,because as God is my witness I thought periods just ended and that was that.I am not sure had even heard the word Menopause

The mystery was finally cleared up when at my annual Gyno.when it was discovered that I was fully Menopausal with an atrophying Vagina.i was put on HRT.I am not saying this should be the answer but it really saved me. I was young,working full time looking after three children.I do not know how I could have coped otherwise.

And yes there are ladies who slip into Psychosis,get committed or succeed in killing themselves.It is a disgrace and shame on those ladies who pretend to not know what you are talking about.And more shame on those Doctors who do no research into Menopause and even dare to say "It is all in your head"

Ladies of the World we have to unite and get this Message out there.Menopause is a reality and honestly I worry about my daughter and all the daughters of our dear friends on this site.

Thank God we will all be there to help them.
If this were a male issue there would be countless resources made available.

Thank you so much for getting this thread going
And
Thank God for all the dear ladies on this Site who support without judgement or making us all feel crazy.
Stay Well
Elizabeth

I too, think that this thread is important. One of the most difficult aspects is that some women genuinely do not suffer in the menopause and it makes we, 'unfortunate ones,' look like spineless, moaning hypochondriacs. Grrrrrrr! How unfair is that?

The second problem is that we also fall victim to the psyche of the medical profession. I have worked with many doctors and I have realised that they hate to admit that they are beaten. In reality they have failed to be able to really help women with severe menopausal symptoms in a completely safe and effective manner, full stop. Many of my more intelligent colleagues have admitted as much. Treating the symptoms is not the same as curing the problem. The more I learn about menopause the more I realise that it is a mind blowingly complex problem. Doctors cannot even treat patients with thyroid diseases effectively and they have long given up on trying to tackle auto-immune diseases. Unfortunately menopause falls into the same virtually 'untreatable' category. There are some ladies here who appear to have had success with hormonal therapies but many have been to hell and back trying to get things 'balanced.' Whatever that is supposed to mean. The body is a complex machine that controls cell function by minute changes in hormonal status via feedback mechanisms and we try to emulate this with varying success. Sadly, our bodies change from hour to hour, so trying to second guess our requirements even over a 24 hour period has got to be a tall order. I suppose I can understand why many medics run in the opposite direction when menopause is mentioned. However, as a woman I would prefer that they admitted the truth, cut the money making bullsh*t and at least treated me with some empathy. I suppose I have come to the uncomfortable realisation that there are no easy answers out there and I am on my own, stumbling through a very unpleasant period of my life. I am also aware that I can't expect someone who has sailed through menopause to understand what I have been through. That's life I'm afraid. To be fair, I am glad that I was not aware of what I would have to face at this time of life. It might have spoiled the good times!

Women certainly need to be very tough to get through all this in one piece.

I still have faith that I have the strength to get through all this. (On the good days, that is! )

XIII