Hi Ladies,

Does anyone share my opinions or is it just me? Hallie Berry gave birth to a baby girl on Monday night. I just saw a news report where she adamantly asserted that she has no plans to marry the father----now or ever!

Now this is Hallie Berry, so of course it's "news"----no getting around that fact. My problem is that when these high profile types decide to have a baby without the blessing of a good solid marriage why does the world glamorize and accept this behavior as completely appropriate? Morality seems to be secondary anymore. I don't want to appear prudish, but I am just getting tired of more and more acceptance and less and less committment. At what point does acceptance stop?

Young people are greatly influenced by individuals in the media. What does this teach our youth---If it feels good do it?

I don't condemn all young women and men who have babies "by accident shall we say". It happens. But Hallie Berry and a myriad of other celebrities set out to have children with seemingly no regard for common decency. I certainly don't suggest that we revert to the days of chastity belts. However, I do applaud anyone who makes a sincere effort to impart basic, good, moral standards on society and especially on our youth.

God Bless that sweet little baby and shame on you Hallie Berry.

Just my opinion and rant for the day.

Donna

I agree with you!

I recently saw an engagement announcement in a newspaper where the young baby 'announced' the engagement of her parents. How sad is that? Add to that it's tacky.

It is becoming the norm now and I don't think it's a good thing for society. A commitment to the union should be the first thing a couple does before they embark on creating the rest of the family. They have a choice.

Good Morning Ladies

Marriage VS Cohabitation......interesting.
It is a personal choice one based on many reasons not the least of which is religion. I personally do not belong to any religious organization however I am an extremely spiritual person.....and have very strong spiritual beliefs. I do not allow 'society' to dictate to me... my spiritual beliefs. .....and by 'society' I refer to those people who would have me believe ONLY what THEY believe. I am being very careful here to avoid getting into dangerous territory. Many would say....that a piece of paper from City Hall... holds no more creedance than the hypocrosy of a religious marriage. Hypocritical to someone like me, who would not be comfortable taking 'vows' in a organized religious setting. I have been with my 'mate' for over 25 years now and as far as we are concerned we ARE married.

I have nothing against the actual 'state of marriage'....heck I even have some friends who are 'married'

But as cohabitation becomes more and more of a viable choice in lieu of marriage and the divorce rates increase, perhaps we need to ponder much more deeply this shift in dynamics.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it Voltaire

Lets have a debate....but please remember ...do not attack ANY members.....attack the theory....but not the member.
Peace
Dottie

What Dottie said....

I tend to agree with Dottie. In my extended family, some people are going into their fourth or fifth marriages, and I just don't see the point! My brother has had 3 "big" marriages, with the white gown, limo, expensive arrangements, etc. Doesn't make any sense...

Also, a couple of friends who married within the Catholic church, later got annulments to marry another person - what's with that? My understanding is that the Bible is pretty clear about this, that one does NOT divorce and marry another.

Without a particular religious dictum, the philosophy of marriage shifts... People really have to determine for themselves how they wish to approach a union with another soul.

I have been married to my husband (second marriage) for 30 years, and am deeply committed. But I have no problem with others who choose not to marry.

Again, just my humble opinion, and Donna, you are my ol' buddy, and you KNOW I love ya!

JJ

Donna,

I agree with you and, if you're a prude, I'm a prude .

Speaking of unmarried celebrities w/children....I just have to ask if I'm the only one whose NOT enamored with Brangelina? I personally think these are two very mixed up people.

Halle Berry has had two terrible marriages, and I can understand why she is gunshy. I think in today's world we have to grab at happiness wherever we can get it. I don't blame her at all for wanting this baby at all out of wedlock. I wish her the best. Despite her beauty and wealth, she has had a miserable life. She deserves some happiness.

I say live and let live. She has the right to do as she pleases.

Bh

Gotta love us Catholics! An annulment and a few Hail Marys and we're good to go.

My parents' marriage was a horrible thing. My dad was a lousy husband and a worse father, and they had the white gown church wedding thing, too.

Ditto what Dottie said, plus my two cents worth. I could give a flying you what if Hallie Barry marries, and I don't consider it shameful that she doesn't want to. I seriously doubt the breaking news of her permanent single status is going make anyone decide not to get married. As long as she is a loving parent who keeps a roof over her child's head, food on the table, and provides a sane environment, I'm not going to judge her.

I believe there should be some sort of non-religious option for those who want the legal protection that right now is only available through "marriage." If you feel, like Ms. Barry, that you don't need that protection, fine. Whatever. But most people in this country don't have her financial resources. I also believe that not allowing same-sex unions violates separation of church and state, something that really only exists on paper anyway. At least nobody uses the term "b astard" anymore.

I'm not anti-religion. I got married in a church. I just don't think religion should be running the government. Or think they are.

I respect everyone's opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

I don't buy the argument that the divorce rate is so high, why bother getting married,,,,it might cause me to divorce too. That's equal to not ever driving a car or riding in one because you might/will get into an accident and could get hurt or killed. Many, many have that happen to them every day.

I say the commitment to the family from a couple is huge. To have 2 parents stand together and commit to each other and to their family saying 'I will be with you, make a life, make a family' that is a wonderful thing.

Why should we dismiss that?

In my original post I did say a "good solid marriage". I might even expand that to a "good solid committment".

There are a lot of people out there who marry because it's something to do at the moment. I have witnessed this myself and am aware that there is no permanent committment evident.

Children are hurt when they are products of poor, shakey, unstable marriages. In my opinion, they are also hurt when there is no family bond (marriage---committment). There are a lot of mixed up kids out there and I know that first hand because as a teacher I deal with it daily. I am a strong believer in a solid family unit----one centered on morality and values.

Sure Hallie Berry and the rest of the high-profiles can do whatever they want to---who's to stop them? I just find them immoral and poor examples.

Most of us have had trials and tribulations in our lives. I don't think that ever justifies immorality.

Once again, just my HO.

Donna

I tend to agree but not wholeheartedly. My daughter and her long-time boyfriend have a 20 month old daughter....the 2 were together for 2-3 years before they became parents. They are in love and are excellent parents. They say they plan to marry soon, haven't mentioned it lately, maybe they won't (they are not poor, both have jobs, a home). Yes i would have loved a wedding first (although he did give her an engagement ring), but i don't have the final say there. Things are working out just fine.

April - First let me say this is not directed at you. Your post just brought up something that I don't really understand. Couples can "commit" to having a child together - one of the biggest commitments you will ever make in your entire life, yet they are reluctant to marry? Someone is "good enough" to sleep with, good enough to father/mother a child with you, but not to make a commitment?

I've had two nephews do the same thing. One of them has gone on to get married and have another child. They seem to be doing fine.

The other one is content to just play house.

I agree with your view on this, Donna. I might be old fashioned in my beliefs but I do favour the committment of marriage. Relationships are dynamic, no two peope are the same and there will be significant changes between them. This causes conflict in relationships but the key to a successful outcome is communication. Maybe the divorce rate is so high because divorce is an easier option? Its an easy escape route. As for Angelina Jolie -- I dont want to go there --- I dont like the woman - i think she's a home wrecker...

I am 54 years old. I lived with my husband and had a committed relationship well before we got married. This was in the late 70's to early 80's. Back then everybody I knew was living together and having sex and babies without being married. We were all in serious, committed relationships, without a marriage contract. We were all Graduate students or post-doctoral fellows or University faculty, far from celebrities, but we were living this way back then. So why is it STILL considered shocking and shameful?

My husband suggested that we could save money on our taxes if we got legally married. So we went down to City Hall and signed a piece of paper. That was our "wedding". I think that peice of paper is absolutely worthless and meaningless unless those 2 people make an absolute promise to each other, in private. You don't need a ceremony to do that. To hell with what anybody else thinks. It is the quiet promise to each other that fulfills your life, and binds you together. I can wipe my butt with the marriage license.

So you married your husband to save money on taxes? I'm very sorry but I find that a little distasteful ...

Please read my post thouroughly. You are totally missing my point. I made a promise to my husband in private, and he to me. There is no legal marriage that can insure our own contract.

To me a promise I made to another person is sacred. A piece of paper to make it legal is what is distasteful to me.

And don't be sorry about your opinion. There are many people like you that just don't get it.

I remember reading once (can't remember where) that a "piece of paper" can prove a lot of things.

For instance, if you buy a car, you better make sure you have that "piece of paper". If you buy a home, you better make sure you have that "piece of paper". If you graduate from college, that "piece of paper" can make a big difference in employment opportunities.

Our lives begin and end with a "piece of paper" (birth and death certificates). A final will can also be a very important "piece of paper".

A marriage certificate is official proof that a couple is legitimately a single unit privy to many legal protections and benefits----health insurance--social security benefits, to mention a few.

And what about bringing children into a union which is not bound legally? In case of the death of either parent, the significant other and any children would not be entitled to anything---no legal claims whatsoever.

I think that "piece of paper" is something I would keep far away from my commode.

By Jove, I think you've got it!

"So why is it STILL considered shocking and shameful?"

I don't consider it shocking at all. Nothing new under the sun really.

Shameful? I think so, but that"s just my opinion.

Wow, have to say that I LOVE that people are expressing very differing points of view, but are not taking each others' heads off. I don't think that's all so easy to do!

Shows that democracy CAN work, at least at Power-Surge!

Love you all, DESPITE YOUR POINT OF VIEW ON THIS! You are my sisters! We have sooooo much in common.

(((HUGS)))

JJ

Perhaps most of you would be shocked at the way I live my life.

Perhaps most of you do not have to deal with mental illness, so there is no way for me to explain what goes on in my brain.

But some of you may know my story, my mind, and my heart.
I am FAR from normal.
I DO NOT lead a conventional life.
I may do things which you consider immoral.
I also do things that really ARE illegal.
My reality is not your reality, because I suffer from psychosis.
But I take full and knowing responsibility for my actions and decisions and the way I choose to live my life.
I pride myself on being totally honest.
And that may be harsh to some of you.

But you know what? We are all sisters, like it or not, with free minds and a free will. We each have our opinions, and are totally entitled to them.

Live and let live, as a few stated above. To each her own.
In the long run, who do you really have to answer to, if not yourself, your family, your God?

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

If you chose to be married then have children, fine. But don't assume that everyone who decides that this route is not for them is shameful or immoral. They just don't share your beliefs.

Armadillo: As usual, you are a voice of reason. So glad to see a post from you!

Are you addressing anyone here in particular?

I have stated my beliefs and I have also stated that they are MY opinions - no one elses. I would never expect anyone else to do as I do (except my kids ).

If I offended anyone, I apologize. That was not my intent.

Can I just say that I am BEAMING here. I just got home from work and I am THRILLED to see a 'constructive' debate going on with ....ALL my sistahs of Surge
Before I 'crash' from a long day at work.. ...let me add......I AM in a VERY committed relationship...and have been for over 25 years. That is a quarter of a century....and to think I am only 30 years young

My point being.....I personally do NOT need a piece of paper, or some religious ceremony to make my partner and I 'committed' to one an another. Clearly after 25 years we ARE very committed to one another. OUR 'proof' is that we remain together without that infamous piece of paper or any sort of 'religious' vows. Like Armadillo.....we 'choose' to be together....through thick and thin.....through menopause and through any other sort of 'Valley' we may encounter.

Besides which....in this land of ours...we are 'legally' married. We file taxes together, we have raised two beautiful, healthy children... (now young adults)....both physically, mentally, morally and spiritually. We own a home together....and I can NAG him better than ANY 'married woman!!

I do not believe that 'marriage' is deemed 'legal' because of a piece of paper or a religious point of view. I believe that a 'marriage' is made with the union of two people who respect one another, who love one another, who share similar values, and are committed to making their relationship work.

Peace
P.S.
I used the word 'commited' SO many times in my post.....I think it may be time to 'commit' myself to a bubble bath.
CHEERS!!

Hi everyone............

Love the different opinions........isn't Life just GRAND........if we all thought the same it would be a tad boring! I have a different prospective on this.........I worry that people (mostly young) rush into marriage for all the wrong reasons. The big splashy wedding with all the "bells & whistles". I've often thought, perhaps if it cost you money to get married (not meaning the wedding reception but the actual license) that perhaps people would think more serious and have discussions in what they want in life. Let's face it...........when it comes to divorce, alot of people & children are hurt as some marriages just never should have happened. AND divorce comes with a Price!!

On the note about Catholics (which I'm not speaking against them) my friend who's marriage ended in divorce they had two children. When my friend wanted to re-marry she wanted to get married in the Catholic church (she was strong in her faith); however, the church would only marry her if the 1st marriage was annuled. She said how hipocrate is that........to say "your marriage never happened when you had 2 children" She wouldn't do it & resulted in her getting married in another faith.

Just thought that was interesting............... not that I'm saying it's right or wrong, but my friend did have a point.

Logan

Oh goodness, Kate, I certainly wasn't singling you out, and no, you didn't offend me! I just have a big problem with the word "shame," especially when it's used because someone did something that is at odds with what we ourselves would chose to do. I think we should reserve "shame" for bigger things than a woman who choses not to marry her child's father.

Here's a box of chocolates for you!

This is a subject which everyone will have to agree to disagree!! I hope you can all do it without hard feelings.....I chose to live my life as I do, and I comfortable with it....and it is my choice to make.

Back in 1978 I found myself pregnant at 17...so what did I do? Married the father, had another baby and got divorced all in three years. We were young, stupid and immature and knew nothing of the "world"! I married a second time, had 2 more children....after about 10 years he had changed so much I knew I was not in a good place....but I stayed for 6 more years, living in misery, to the detrement of my health, my emotional stability and my children's best interests. But AT THAT TIME I though I was doing the "right" thing. I was staying married, keeping the family unit together....telling myself it's better for the kids. I had already been divorced ONCE...OMG, I didn't want to be "two time" loser!!!

I finally could no longer go on living such a nightmare, and I realized that it was hurting my children...so I left.

I am now living in "sin" and will never marry again. My personal experience with marriage has been distasteful. In my present relationship I don't feel "trapped" as I did in a marriage. I feel I am here because I want to be, not because I have to be.

Having said all that.....I do think there should be more committment on the part of parent's to provide their children with stable homes, and I have read that children do better in two parent families than in one parent families. But each situation is different, and we can't lay it all out in black and white....sadly the world is many shades of gray, or it is sad?? I don't know for sure. I have one child that has been married and she is now in the middle of a divorce....she did the "right" thing with good intentions, but things changed. In this case her husband treated her differently after they were married. He had a different set of standards from a "wife" than he did a girlfriend....and it was sad, they were happy before the rules changed. So who is to say what is right and what is wrong?? No me, thats for sure.

Actually, I don't like the word "shame" either . Can we just delete it from my posts?

Thanks for the candy. I hope there's tons of caramels in it.

....off to watch American Idol

Shocking?---no. Nothing shocks me anymore because good old-fashioned morality has taken a backseat to promiscuity.

Immoral?---in my opinion, yes.

Shameful?---again, in my opinion, yes.

And if you read my post above about how important "little pieces of paper" really are when it comes down to legality, then I consider non-committal unions downright foolish.

That's my story and I'm stickin to it.

Glad to see so much activity on this topic.

Donna

Dear Kate
Consider it 'deleted'.......we will just gloss over that word NOW WHERE IS MY BOX OF CHOCOLATES?!?!

Dear Donna
I am curious as to how you equate 'old fashion morality' taking a back seat to 'promiscuity' Surely one would not think that a couple who had stayed toegther in a relationship for twenty five years as being 'promiscous'?
Immoral....based on what exactly? Again if you are basing this on religion....then that is a problem that far exceeds this discussion on 'marriage'.

I suppose one would need to define 'marriage' to truly understand where one is coming from ....... From my stand point marriage is not a religious act.
My bath is ready....and I am off and runnin'
Cheers!!
Dottie

I'm guessing, by the sound of a couple who have posted here, that you are "without sin" and have been given the priviledge of "casting the first stone."

No one is without sin. In fact we are all born with the stain of original sin on our souls and we commit many more sins as we journey through this life. Hopefully, we grow and we repent. There are some without consciences who feel no need to make amends and express sorrow for their short comings and sins and ask forgiveness. Nonetheless, the fact remains, that we are all sinners to some degree.

So Tidalwaves you guess wrong, at least where I am concerned. I admit my weaknesses and constantly strive to overcome them.

The priviledge that I do have is the right to free speech and the right to express my opinions, which I have done and which I stand by.

Donna

Hello Ladies '
A marriage certificate is my no means a way to 'legitimize' a marriage. One definiation of the word 'legitimize states......conforming to recognized principles or accepted rules and standards ......I think therein lies MY situation. I have never been one to 'conform' to societies 'rules of accepted rules and standards....far too bourgeois for me.

Insofar as getting married to receive health inscurance, social security pension and the legal rammifications et al. I live in Canada where health care is free, social benefits automatically go to the spouse....where a spouse is deemed 'married' by the governement....if residing together for ( I believe) ONLY 1 year. Cohabitating is recoqnized as 'marriage' in this country.

The children of cohabitating couples have the same rights as those adults who chose a more convential rite of passage.....i.e. through religious beliefs and/or good ole City Hall.

I am half French and France also recoqnizes my husband as being my 'legal spouse. He is entered into my 'Livret de Famille' and the French take THIS document VERY seriously. Once you are entered into the family book you can not be removed. If you seperate or divorce, in the case of my husband..... he is still entitled to all the protection and benefits of France. Pretty funny when one considers he can not speak one word of french

Anyways.....I do think this is a fascinating debate....and I am VERY pleased that we are having this discussion as mature adults

Dottie

Hiya Dcamp,

Well, for me, if I went all my life and could not find the right man to marry, and my bio clock was ticking, I would rather have a baby alone than a baby with the wrong man.

As for your above comments, most of them come from the bible, and it is my understanding that religion is not up for grabs on PS , so your free speech is correct, but not of the religious type.

For the rest of you all, I believe a paper does not a marriage make. A marriage is also not broken [divorce] through paper. These things happen in the heart; not in the courts and churches.

Just my 60 cents

PS: I have been married almost 33 years, so I am not speaking from """sin""""
PPS: Dottie is 100% correct on French law. It is sort of translated to "common law marriage' and as legal and as binding as a traditional marriage that was concocted by man.

Dottie,

the truth is, in our country being married is of little benefit, and in fact it if often more beneficial to not marry. I know couple who have legally seperated, keep seperate residences....but still consider themselves a couple....because the tax benefits for them NOT being married are so much bigger. I have always thought there was something wrong with that.

I don't need anybody out there telling me either whether or not I am committed...I know. I believe in live and let live, as long as nobody is getting hurt.

Brava, Armadillo!

Hugs,
Viktoria

Two people live together for 1 year---for 10 years---for 25 years---. They proclaim complete and total committment, they have and raise children together, they remain monogamous, they are deeply in love. These are all components of a good, healthy, stable marriage yet they don't marry. They thumb their noses at convention (and yes, I am conventional, I make no apologies for that) and use that tired old excuse " a piece of paper doesn't make me married". Why? What could it or does it possibly hurt? Of course the piece of paper doesn't make the difference whether or not two people love and commit to one another, but it makes things a whole lot simpler when it comes to legalities.

I did not intentionally mean to bring religion into this discussion. In fact, I am trying very hard not to. I was just responding to another post which did bring religion into the mix when she used the quote "let he who is without sin.....".

Dottie: About old-fashioned morality taking a backseat to promiscuity. I didn't mean that anyone living together is promiscuous. Sorry about that. What I meant was that in general, society has become more and more tolerant of certain behaviors that were once considered ill-advised. Let me cite one example I know first hand. We have lived next door to a single woman for about 20-25 years. Over the years she has had a parade of different men living with her. One of these relationships produced a daughter. She has told me many times that she has no interest in marriage---she has no desire to add that kind of "baggage" to her life. Yet over the years, she had no problem exposing her child to that type of thinking and behavior. Guess what? Now that the daughter is 19 years old she is following in mom's footsteps. When dtr wants a sleep over mom stays at current boyfriend's house. You can't fault the girl. This is the example mom set. Personally, I find this wrong. What bothers me even more, is that my own teenage children are aware of this and will sometimes even argue with me that it's ok if no one is getting hurt. Well call me old-fashioned if you want, but my husband and I never miss an opportunity to tell our children that we do not, nor will we ever condone this type of behavior. As parents, it is our obligation to instill in them what we consider to be good, sound, moral values.

This did get a little wordy. Sorry. All of the above are my opinions. Some will share them, some will not and that's what makes this a great forum and a great country.

Have a good day all.

Donna

Dear Donna
I just woke up and as anyone can attest....those that know me.....I am NOT a morning person!!
I think you bring out some very good points......which I will 'debate' when I get home later this evening. Have a mahvelous day DahLink

Hugs
Dottie
P.S.
N'or SHOULD you make ANY apologies for being 'convential' !! That is what makes you .....you

Ok......off to go and wake up my mind...........This may take awhile

Never assume that ANYONE is without sin, because when you assume you make am "ass" out of "u" and "me'.

I am not without sin. As a matter of fact, if we are going to start a contest on morality here, I would come in dead last. I have sinned plenty. I am just quoting a story from the bible. A woman accused of immorality, back in the days of Jesus, was taken into the town square to be stoned to death for her sin. Since the angry crowd was so eager to be both judge and jury, without a proper trial and evidence of her immoral act, Jesus stepped in with these words:

Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. So let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

I certainly hope that your words do not mean to be judgemental in any way, or reflect the fact that you believe that some people are without sin. We are human beings, the products of God's love. With the gift of free will, comes the burden of sin. And every one of us knows what it is like to carry that burden.

That poster would be me. I did not realize that taking a quote from the Christian bible means I am a Christian. I am not. Nor is my intent to espouse ANY sort of religious beliefs, practices, rituals, whatever.

It is just that there are so many beautiful quotes from the Koran, the Torah, the Talmud, the Dhammapada, and the Bhagavad Gita , that teach us so much about our human condition, and how we can see, throught the ages, the wisdom contained in each of these books is so timely to our lives today. And the language is so powerful, it sends chills down my spine.

Just because I read these books does not mean I am Christian, Jewish, Buddihst, or Hindu, nor do I promote any of these beliefs. It is the power of the language contained in all of them, and the Universal lessons of life we can learn, that transcend any "religion". And after reading all these books, one can see so clearly, that we are so much more alike than we are different, despite the dogma, rituals and exclusivism that may pass for religion.

I'm not sure how you came up with that conclusion? People have expressed their opinions, but I have yet to see a person here claim that they themselves are without sin.

You already know that I share your views.

You know, I used to steer away from using examples from our friends/acquaintances/relatives lives when talking to my children. Now, I use every opportunity I can (age appropriate of course.)

Armadillo,

I was actually suggesting exactly the opposite of what it seems you heard me say.

There are none without sin, therefore not one of us is able to stand in judgement of another.

I think it is great that everyone has their own opinion and isn't afraid to express it! Vva la differance. For me, I did not live with current dh because I said I would not in my divorce papers from dxh. (Had to do with alimony). Would I have, yes, probably. Is it a sin? Probably in my mind, but so is fornication and I was sure doing that one. I hope God has better things to do than zero in on me living in sin.

Sorry, my bad. HAHA, looks like I made an "ass" out of "me".
But that's nothing new.
I make an "ass" out of myself several times a day.
Maybe I'll change my name to Jack.
It would be appropriate.

Sometimes having just one bad marriage will sour you against ever wanting to do it again. In Halle's case, she had 2 bad marriages. That however never stopped her from wanting kids. She tried marriage and it just didn't work for her. Does that sentence her to never having kids? What if she had adopted (which she still plans to do) but wasn't married. Would we all applaud her taking in that child and raising it on her own? or would we find a reason to judge her for that as well.

As far as our children looking at celebrities as role models, I think they could definitely do worse than Halle. In my opinion, she is a positive role model. She overcame alot of obstacles to get where she is today. None of it came easy for her.

I wish Halle all the best. I truly believe she will be a wonderful mother. Isn't that what's important?

BH

Hi Bigheart,

I don't know Halle Berry except for what I read in the papers or hear on the news, so I can't say I truly believe she will be a wonderful mother. I hope she will be because all of our innocent little ones deserve that. We all know she is financially capable of giving her little daughter the best of everything, so I guess that's a plus. Probably none of us know exactly what happened in her two failed marriages so we can't speak with authority on her character. Again, I hope she does prove to be an excellent mother in that regard.

My biggest problem with this, shall I call it "trend" of choosing to have babies without benefit of marriage is that there is no solid, family unit present. And I guess it just bugs me that it is becoming so readily accepted. I am troubled to think that somewhere down the line marriage and committment and family will no longer be considered necessary or even important.

I wouldn't judge a single parent for adopting a child. I don't know that I feel it's an ideal situation, but adoption involves a child who is already born, has been created and who deserves a home other than an institution.

My original post was all about the relatively new "cool" thing to do -- Bypass the effort involved in building and nurturing a solid marriage and family unit and just create a new life because it feels good. I wonder if someone who can't commit to marriage has committment problems in other areas as well. Raising a child to maturity is one heck of committment. What happens if that doesn't feel so good after awhile?

Once again, all of the above JMHO.

Have a good day everyone.

Donna

Forgot to add one thing about adoption. Usually adoptive parents are extremely well-screened. So if a child does go to a single parent home, I would guess that it has been determined that an educated and viable choice has been made.

OK---done for now.