I'm not real sure if this is the correct board to post on, but here goes (and it's kind of lenghty, so please bear with me )

In August, I had a bacterial infection. My symptoms were lots of burning and some discharge. There wasn't a lot of discharge, but what there was kind of thick and white to sometimes yellow. No odor at all. Doctor gave me a prescription but even after I was through with it, even though I was much better, I still had burny days and it seemed I always had a little of this same discharge. When I went back for my recheck, she said the infection was gone, despite the fact that I still didn't feel quite right down there. In the meantime, when I told her I suspected I was going through peri, she sent me for blood tests which came back "normal"...supposedly I wasn't anywhere near menopause. Due to the fact that I hadn't had a period in 9 months, they wanted to try to find a reason for that, so I was sent for an ultrasound which revealed two cysts - one on each ovary. I never had any pain or anything from theses cysts, but because one was solid, they felt it best to remove it. Long story short, I ended up having an ovary removed in December (it was beniegn thankfully). After the surgery, this discharge that I had been having since August stopped completely (hot flashes started in earnest, but at least one thing seemed to improve!). Then suddenly, about a month ago, I started getting discharge again. But this wasn't the same type as before....it's more what would appear to be "normal" discharge...clear to cloudy to whitish but kind of watery/egg-white consistency (sorry to be kind of graphic here!). I had not burning or odor, so I figured it was normal stuff and that maybe my body was just getting back to normal after the surgery and that I was going to maybe get a period (which I still haven't gotten by the way), but it's been a month and I still have this stuff coming out of me. It's a lot more than what I used to get back when my cycles were normal. I called the doctor and when I described what was happening, they felt it was hormonal due to the ovary removal, etc. and because ,I have no burning/itching/odor, she felt it wasn't an infection. They told me to try sitting in a baking soda sitz bath for a week, and I have been doing that, but it's still no better. It is pretty constant and I have to wear a panty liner because this stuff is almost always there.

My question is - does this sound like it could be hormones causing this? Have any of you experienced anything like this? I thought when you went through meno, you got drier, but I always feel wet!

I'm just so discouraged. I finally got a handle on the hot flashes, now I have this. It always seems like it's something new. It used to be I felt in control of my body or at least knew what it was doing, but now my body is in control and I can't seem to regain it. Every day I wake up and wonder what the heck it's going to do to me today . Sorry for the vent, I know you all know how it feels...I just wish I could go back to the days when I felt "normal".

Thanks for listening and if any of you have any thoughts on this, I'd really appreciate it.

Hello Deb

I can really appreciate the feeling of one thing after another and just wanting to be normal.

I had a problem with discharge but not similar to yours. When I abruptly stopped taking HRT I pretty soon developed a yellow discharge such as I'd never had before, ever. Had all the tests for infections, etc. and all negative. GP didn't even mention vaginal atrophy, just said I was a "bit dry".

When I later consulted a doctor who specialises in the menopause, she said that it's normal for the discharge to change in peri and menopause. If only my GP had told me that! I started using a vaginal gel recommended by this doctor from the pharmacist that restores the correct ph balance in the vagina and the discharge rapidly became normal again (I hadn't had a period for several months at the time btw). In the meantime, I'd had a smear test and the nurse performing it noticed a polyp on the cervix. These can apparently cause discharge as well. As I was no longer experiencing a peculiar discharge I must admit I've been a bit of a coward and haven't had the polyp removed. Apparently most doctors feel they're better out than in, although they're benign growths.

So the first thing I'd say is that hormonal fluctuations can cause a change in the discharge. It's amazing how unknowledgeable some doctors are about discharge at this life stage. I only realised it was vaginal atrophy causing mine by talking to someone on this forum who'd had this experience - and by it abating when I used a product to restore ph balance to the vagina. Possibly you're having an estrogen surge and there's a period getting ready to happen down the line. I had three periods in 2007 and before each one the hot flashes stopped, and the vaginal area became normal, like it had been pre-peri. The doctor agreed I'd experienced estrogen surges. After the periods the hot flashes would start again and the area become uncomfortable again.

The menopause specialist later prescribed me Estriol cream to be used in the vagina as whilst the discharge had become normal with the vaginal gel, the tissues in that area were still shrunken as a result of the withdrawal from the estrogen in the HRT and that was causing me stinging, itching and pain. When I first used the cream in the vagina in the dose stated, it produced a clear, stretchy discharge such as I used to get at ovulation. I discovered (on this forum again!) that it's the cervix that produces this kind of discharge when it comes into contact with estrogen.

Sorry to be so graphic in the descriptions, but I have the attitude that these are simply biological or medical matters and it only hinders clear communication if people become embarassed and start using metaphors.

As it sounds as though the doctor hasn't yet examined you regarding this new discharge and as the remedy they've suggested isn't working, probably the next step is to go back to the doc. I'd only like to say that I've discovered that at this life stage, changes in vaginal discharge are common and probably hormonally prompted - although a cervical polyps can also cause a discharge. There's no blood in the discharge you're describing so it sounds as though it's cause is more hormonal.

I'm wondering if there are over the counter or natural products that help restore the proper ph balance vaginally or only be prescription. It sounds like you found something helpful. What was it? Thanks
daebert

Hi daebert

Yes it was an over the counter product that my doc first recommended to me - Phyto Soya vaginal gel by Arkopharma. It's available in pharmacies here in the UK - I don't know about the States. The instructions are in English and French and looking at the box, the company seems to be based in Italy and the product distributed in France and the UK. Looking it up on the internet however I see it's available in a different box design to the one I buy in the UK, so possibly it's distributed in other countries as well.

It says it hydrates and lubricates the surface levels of the vaginal epithelium and has a pH close to that of the mucous membrane (ph=5). You use it twice a week.

Whilst it stopped the discharge I was having and restored a normal discharge, it wasn't strong enough to compensate entirely for the loss of estrogen to those parts. I still had some external stinging and itching. That's why my doctor went on to prescribe estrogen cream. I use the two products in conjunction now.

Interactive,

Thank you for your information. When I had the ultrasounds for the cysts, they said my cervix looked fine, but I guess a polyp could have developed since then. The nurse said the baking soda baths would help to normalize the PH, so that sounds like it was on the same track as your situation. There is a product called Rephresh which is supposed to help normalize the PH. I used it once and it made things burn real bad, but I was at the tail end of that stupid infection at the time, so maybe that's why. Maybe I should give it another try. I know it gives you a different kind of discharge, but at least I'd know where THAT was coming from

Hi again schipmom

I hadn't heard of Rephresh (probably not available in this country) so I did an internet search and came across a site where there was a discussion by several women of vaginal problems. Some of them have used it with success. I'm not allowed to post a link on the open forum so I'll pm you. According to their discussion, unprotected sex and diet can also alter the ph balance in the vagina. Surely though if what your doctor's surgery suggested hasn't worked, they should at least examine you?

Hi Interactive,

Your mention about the Phytosoya Vaginal Gel got my interest, and I can get this product easily. One question, it does contain parabens. Does that cause you any irritations or concerns. So far, [everything crossed] this is one symptom I am not getting, even though my E levels have bottomed out, and am currently heading into just past 5 months without a period. So I am high into prevention of vaginal health, and didn't like the replens much at all.

Just wondered about how you feel with the parabens, as I know you 'dig' around into all the scientific details, and parabens are not getting a good reputation of late. Estriol cream, yup, good for the skin.......still on my face and neck though; how is yours going?

But, thanks for mentioning this different product!

Viktoria

Hi Viktoria

Hmmmmm hadn't really focused on the fact it contained parabens as it was recommended to me by a doctor who won't prescribe me systemic estrogen. Is it the estrogenic properties of parabens and the fact they've been detected in breast cancer tissue that worry you? I'll ask her about that at my next appointment. Funnily enough, I was investigating changing from a shower gel that contains parabens to one without, quite ignoring that this vaginal gel contains parabens because it had been recommended by a doctor who tends towards natural remedies! It's never caused me any irritations by the way. Maybe I'll experiment with using the estriol cream on its own for a while and see what effects I get.

Glad to have an opportunity to discuss the use of estriol cream on the face again I meant to ask you, do you use it only twice a week on the face as it's recommended to use it twice a week vaginally, or do you mix it in with your moisturiser every day? I have been using it on my face, and got carried away with the results. Putting it neat on the lips gives me lips like Scarlett Johansson (bit of an exaggeration maybe, but they look fuller and curvy - very good result ). So I thought, why don't I apply it neat to the areas where I'd like wrinkles smoothed out, like between my eyes, from nose to mouth - those sorts of areas - and mix it in with the moisturiser for the rest of my face and neck. I've been doing that every three days. Applying it neat to the skin on my face however brings up a reaction, it makes the skin red. The redness has faded by the next morning (I apply it at night) but I think there's still a bit of irritation on the skin where I applied it neat (but not where I applied it with the moisturiser) so with the exception of my lips, I think I'll apply it with the moisturiser in future and see how that goes. I mentioned to my husband (a doctor) that I was putting it on my face. I was a bit worried about it because it does contain hormones after all, and although the effects are designed to be local and its a weak estrogen, minimal amounts do get into the system. This is not his area of medicine at all, however he said be careful as your skin could become dependent on it. I said surely skin was dependent on the estrogen that one makes oneself prior to menopause and which then diminishes during peri and menopause. He didn't seem to have an answer for that. I have considered telling the doctor who prescribes the cream that I'm using it on my face, or asking her what she thinks of the idea, but I suspect I'll get a sharp reply lol.

I wonder why companies don't make skin cream with estrogen in it. I suppose it's because it's a medicine rather than a cosmetic so pharmaceutical companies wouldn't make it because they make medicines not cosmetics, and cosmetic companies wouldn't make it because you need a doctor's prescription for it!

Have you been using it on your face long? How often do you do it? Have you noticed cumulative improvements?

Hi Interactive,

What worries me about the parabens is 'will they affect a fibroid I had growing, that is hopefully shrinking by now. Yes, the cancer part does play a role, but I am aware we can get cancer no matter what we do, or don't do.

As for the estriol cream, I use it the same as for vaginal. My doc thinks that's where I'm using it , and I am not about to inform otherwise. I lived in France for most of my life, and it is quite normal for cosmetic creams to contain a small amount of estriol. It's not new to me, and not scary. I don't apply it 'neat' to any area at all except a very, very thin smear across my lips and between eyebrows to prevent frown lines, and like you, I am nowhere in need of botox for lips for quite a while. I now use an oil called "Dremu" which is much like human sebum, and a couple of drops of that, and a tiny amount [and I mean really tiny] of estriol applied while concentrating on areas that will make me look tired. Under eyes, above and around lips etc, and then finish off my under eyes with a few dabs of "seacret" eyegel. [That is magical stuff]. I am not looking for a youthful look, just a healthy one, and not one that always reflects tiredness of Peri/Meno. I have lost count of how long I have been using it, but it must be around 9-10 months now.

I take a week off about every 6 weeks. My DH told me to do this for the same reasons your DH has explained things to you, plus he said that my face could become too acustomed to it, and the cream may lose its effectiveness. He's not a Doc, but more into sciences; not meno ones, but deep enough to know about molecules, biology, dna, etc etc........you know what I mean. But he did say that the molecular structure is made so that it is not taken up by the blood stream vaginally [although it does in moderate amounts] , and as the PH and structure of the skin on the face is far different from that of the vagina, that it is quite safe to use in small amounts. I really do use it in such tiny amounts.

I would not mention to your Doc you use it on your face, or he/she might stop writing the scripts!!!! I think mine suspects, but I say nothing to his eyebrow raised looks. As for improvements. YES! I honestly am 'ok' with my skin. I don't look young, and don't care, but my skin feels nice and looks dewy and fresh. My profile pic is one my DH took on the day I turned 50, and the pic is not touched up 'to look good'. I would have been on the cream about 6-7 months then.

I hope that helps give you an idea. The one thing I can say for certainty is that nothing else produces the results of a pleasant glow like estriol does. It makes me look more alive and less tired...even when I am a wipe out!

Viktoria

Hi again Viktoria

I have a couple of fibroids too - 1 cm and 3 cms at the last ultrasound. I asked my doc if the estrogen cream used vaginally would affect them and she said only if I used too much of it. In fact I find I can use quite a lot less than the recommended dose and still get OK results. I don't put it in the upper part of the vagina. If, therefore, my doc thought it was ok to use estrogen itself in the vagina, presumably the estrogenic effect of parabens on fibroids is quite a lot less by comparison. Nor do I have periods any longer - only three in 2007 and the last one of those in November. I imagine therefore my estrogen levels must be quite low anyway if periods are not being produced. I don't know if fibroids continue to grow if there's any estrogen at all in your system. I heard they shrink after menopause. However post menopausal women are still producing low levels of estrogen - estrone I think - so what effect does that have?

Interesting to hear that in France estrogen is used for cosmetic purposes. Relieves me of the disturbing thought that I'm using medicine on my face I'll have a look for Dremu and Seacret on the internet as well.

Interesting as well to hear that you're taking a break from using it every six weeks. Certainly with the progesterone cream I'm using, you have to take a break, even if you're post menopause, the reasoning being that progesterone in the body is a cyclical hormone and used continuously, the progesterone receptors become less sensitive and you need more for the same effect. I didn't think of estrogen as a cyclical hormone, although of course the level of its production goes up and down pre-menopause according to the stage a woman is in her cycle. Certainly the leaflet with the cream doesn't tell you to take a break whe used on the vaginal area. Since, when using it on the face, it has its most dramatic effect on the lips, I wondered about the concentration of estrogen receptors in the lips as compared to the rest of the face, or the type of skin, etc. You can see when you use this cream, why very young women producing lots of estrogen have such full, plump lips!

I wonder about the rate of aging through the fifties as well. I calculate from what you say that you're fifty years old. On my fiftieth birthday I had no face problems at all - I'd only stopped having regular periods four months previously, so was probably still producing sufficient estrogen for there not to be much effect on my face. The effect on the other end of my anatomy however was quite marked in that from the time my periods stopped being regular, I noticed quite a rapid shrinkage in the perineal area, which reversed when I started HRT four or five months later.

In this last month however, now that I'm 53 and no longer supplementing with systemic estrogen (I stopped taking HRT 17 months ago) the quality of the skin around my eyes has changed. Only a couple of months ago it seems I could smile and the smile wrinkles would just be as they always had been and disappear when I stopped smiling. Now I smile and the skin around my eyes crinkles in a way it never did. The crinkles still disappear - mostly - when I stop smiling, but there are changing effects under my eyes, the odd crease that wasn't there, even a few weeks ago and which isn't going away, smiling or not, estrogen or no estrogen! It's a bit disconcerting to have Angelina Jolie lips with the estriol cream but not the same effect in the rest of the face! So now I try not to smile too much - I don't want to encourage this process! Honestly, vanity.