Hi, first time visit, but the site looks great.  I'm 52 years old, not in menopause, but am scheduled to have a complete hysterectomy on June 20th and am having quite a few fears and questions.  I'm not really sure why my Dr. is taking my ovaries, since they are healthy and still functioning.  I would love any advise or help on this topic, especially since I will immediately go into menopause and have to start HRT.  I have an appointment with my GYN on June 8th, so want to be well prepared, especially if I am going to fight him to leave my ovaries.  Thanks all and I hope to get to know you all soon.

I was told that if your ovaries are healthy, then it is YOUR decision whether or not to remove them, and, I was also told that if ovaries are not involved, you may have the option of a vaginal proceedure or laproscopic, rather than abdominal, or even that new procedure that is something like "boiling" the uterus and virtually leaving all other tissues unharmed!  I met a woman who had this done (two days before I met her!) and she was ecstatic about the results and the almost zero recovery time!  Maybe these are some things you could ask about.  There are some great web sites about hysterectomy proceedures, I have not explored the info on this one yet as I am new, and my hyst. was four years ago, but if it is anything like the message boards, I'll bet you can find a world of useful information!  

Welcome FraniI was just curious as to why your doctor would have you set down for a hysterectomy......have you had troule with fibroids or cysts......as for myself I am also 52 and have been in this phase now for 1+ years having a very large fibroid but didn;t opt for the operation take the nat. progesterone cream which has helped tons.If I were you before I go to my visit onthe 8 June have a list of questions for the doctor as to why he suggest this treatment.....and its up to you its our bodies not theres....as the other meno sister said read up on this board there is tons of helpful information about everything....be prepared.....Lets know how your visit goes....take care.

Frani--You're just right in questioning taking out your ovaries if they're healthy. It's not as though they dry up and blow away at natural meno--they don't. The trickle of hormones they continue to produce gives you a resiliance (even if you elect to use post-meno hrt) that the otherwise fine absolute hrt of surgical menopause cannot. If your doc can't come up with a better reason than "you won't need them any more because you'll be in menopause soon anyway" you maybe want to shop around.

And yeah, as Luckdragon said, hope you've explored all your options before signing up for a hyst. Mine is the best thing I could have done for myself, but I couldn't embrace the risks till I knew it was my last good hope for health. There's a lot of hyster-scare stuff out there that I'm not trying to invoke, but you gotta remember that this is serious stuff. Do no more than you need, and do it knowingly.

And best of health, whatever you do.

Hi Fran,I had my healthy ovaries removed. My advise is do not have your healthy ovaries removed. My symptoms all started after my ovaries were removed. If I had to do this over again. I would keep my ovaries. I did not do research on this, my doctor said I could just go on HRT and will be fine. WRONG. Think this over. Good Luck and God Bless, Sheree

Frani....Hi!!I have to agree with the other gals here!!!  I've not had a hyster.....but know of several woman who have....and I'm well acquainted with their stories.

You said you are 52 and not menopausal....actually...your  age alone suggests that you could / might / probably are menopausal......at least peri for sure!!!!Why is the doctor suggesting the removal of your ovaries????   My dear friend....unless something else is not being said, (not by you, persay) possibly by your doctor,etc.,etc. I don't understand.....WHY....this suggestion! :confused:If your ovaries are fine.....and removed.....like you said...it would throw you into post.....GUARANTEED!!! Also as Trish (Patricia) asked.....WHY....the HYSTERECTOMY in the first place???  Is there something else that warrants it!  If so....I understand...then what must be, must be..........but healthy ovaries.....careful my friend....explore those options!!It is your body....not the doctors!! The one thing I've learnt since coming on this site is.....*.*This Gal, Duznt Hafta Take The Doctors Word For It**   I question EVERYTHING!!  You're still young.....many years ahead of ya!!  HECK....you're younger than me!! *HeHe* Most here are! :biggrin:

Take care of yourself and Godspeed!!

(((Hugs)))Nancy

Hi Fran!I agree with all the others. I had mine removed (still have my uterus) at 34 because they were invaded by large dermoid cysts...but even then, the doc told me he would at least try to save a portion of one so that I could get some natural estrogen. (That didn't work out, but he tried.) The removal of healthy organs is BAD. (You notice my doc didn't say "you can't have your own kids now, so we might as well take your uterus.")I not only have to take HRT to keep menopause symptoms to a minimum, but the loss has quite probably resulted in a multitude of stuff I never had before: psoriasis (facial!), weight gain, a couple of food allergies, bouts with loss of appetite (yet I don't lose weight!), etc. etc. DON'T let him remove them for no reason!

Let us know!To your health, :)LizV

Thank you all sooooo much for the valuable information.  Perhaps I should explain my problems in more detail.  While blood tests show I'm not in menopause, or even in Periomenopause, I most definately am.  I rarely have periods, then when I do, boom, I practically bleed to death.  The Dr. tried progesterone, all kinds and I can't take them.  Oh, I also suffer from anxiety, and am having bladder surgery at the same time as the hysterectomy.  The reason for the hysterectomy is that mine is prolapsed (hanging VERY low), and I have endometrial hyperplasia and painful intercoarse.  So, I don't doubt the need for the hysterectomy, just the need for him to remove everything while he's doing it.  I do still have an appointment tomorrow and hope to delve into this further with him, but as all you lovely ladies have said, I will be thrown into menopause if he does do the procedure he wants.  I'm just so torn.  My psychiatrist suggests that HRT can help anxiety a lot for most women so that is appealing.  Could someone please clear this up?  If I only have a partial hysterectomy, will I be put go on hormones?   Osteoporosis runs in my family, so I would appreciate the benefits that they offer for that.  Gosh, I'm really confused I guess.   Thanks for all the advice!   You are all great!  

Fran....Bless your heart!!It can't be easy!! Trying to deal with what all the info the doctors are passing on to you....plus an inevitable hysterectomy!!  It's times like this I really wish I had a magic wand to whip out and wave away all your difficulties)))))))))

From what I understand.....talking with my friends who had hysterectomies......if the ovaries are left....you won't be thrown into a surgical type menopause!!  Your menopause will be more normal.  According to a study I was just reading the other day.....if the ovaries are removed a woman will produce about  65% less estrogen and 75% less progesterone.  That means you would have to take hormones to replace this loss.If the ovaries are not removed......you can still take HRT like your psychiatrist suggested, (for a normal menopause)......BUT......it's not a guaranteed solution!!!!!HRT can help some woman.....depending on many factors..such as, the kind of HRT, (synthetic or not)....the dosage, etc.,etc. HRT didn't help me!!  Some woman cannot take them!!  Speaking only for myself.....it caused my anxiety to become panic attacks!!I also have osteoporosis in the family!  My concern too!!Since I don't take HRT I take a supplement called "Evista." It's working very well in maintaining my bones.From what you have posted.....let me suggest, what I would do!!  Speaking only for myself.....if I were in your place.Have the hyterectomy....of course....this is a given.  If the ovaries are fine.....KEEP THEM!!  Give yourself some time to heal....then re-evaluate how you feel!  In otherwards....are you having hot flashes from h*ll.....insomnia.....wild mood swings, etc. If so then consider what options you can try with HRT, and maybe herbs......or soy!!

Keep in mind....until you regain control in your life....you might need a little help with prescribed meds....such as anti-depressants and or anti-anxiety (my personal preferance) such as Xanax or Clonazapam.

Most of all stay close to all the information you can get with sites like this....ask the questions you need to know....learn all you can about what could/might/may happen as you go through this transition.

There's a lot of support here from Dearest, MaryO and all the other gals who are very compassionate and so fantastic with giving a helping hand when needed.Don't worry about being confused....it will work itself out...belief me....I know!!  No one was more confused than I was when I first came on site....scared to death....not knowing what the heck was going on in my body, let alone my life!!This site with all it's resources and wonderful, wonderful gals, cleared all the confusion I had in no time.

Fran....you'll be OK!!  It just takes a little time....we're all here for you!! (((Love and Hugs)))Nancy

Hi Fran!What Nancy says about this forum is TRUE! It works wonders to exchange menopause gripes with all the wonderful women here.As far as your immediate problem goes: if you have talked to your doctor and you are still confused, there are only two words that leap to mind---SECOND OPINION! Once they remove organs unnecessarily, you will never get them back! You should NOT have to go into surgery without knowing WHY they are taking your ovaries too and WHAT the consequences will be. It's your body...demand answers and make sure you understand them. It is that simple!

Keep us updated!

LizVPS anxiety (panic attacks) are often hormone imbalance related...I suffered for years thinking I was mentally out of whack when it was my ovarian cysts the whole time. Get good advice and try to stay cool!

Thanks you Snowbird and Liz, and everyone else of course.   I feel somewhat better armed to face my GYN this morning and am going to press for him to keep my ovaries!  Phew, I feel better.  He's really a very kind understand Doctor, so I do feel that he will try his best to honor my request to keep the ovaries.  I also will talk to him about trying a mild, low dosage estrogen to see if it helps my mental state, while also providing some protection for these poor old bones, lol.  Snowbird, I already take Clonazapam for the anxiety and it does help.   I went off Paxil recently but am not opposed to trying another anti-depressant if necessary although most of them don't agree with me.  So thank you all.  I'm off to see my Dr. this morning,  to discuss the surgery and feel much better armed to maintain an intelligent conversation.  Will let you know what transpires when I return.  My surgery is scheduled for June 20th!   Thanks sooooooo much again.  

Fran, you may read this after you see your doctor, but I wanted to tell you this.  I had a hysterectomy at age 41, because I had so much bleeding and they couldn't seem to get it straightened out with hormones.  The doctor told me I should keep my ovaries, and I'm glad I did.  I'm now 58, and while menopause has been no picnic, I'm sure it would have been much worse if I'd had my ovaries removed.  Also, if you  do have the ovaries removed, you can almost count on your anxiety getting worse.  When I finally reached the hot flash stage with menopause, I had anxiety problems for the first time.  The doctor put me on estradiol, but that caused nightly, repeated adrenalin rushes, more serious anxiety, and panic attacks, which I'd never had before.  So, I'm off all hormones.  I was on Zoloft for a year or so, and it helped a little, but the side effects were just too much.

I think I'm nearing the end of menopause.  Hot flashes are less severe, and anxiety, while still there, is more manageable.  If I'd had my ovaries removed, I'd have been in hormone hell , and not everyone does well on hormone replacement (I didn't).  Hope your appointment with your doctor went well.  Let us know, will you?  I'm sure we'll all be keeping our fingers crossed for you.

Thanks Callie.  Well, I saw my Dr. today and basically I still know no more than I did before I went.  He's willing to do whatever I want but is still pushing to do a total hysterectomy.  His main concern is the fact that I could still get ovarian cancer if the ovaries are left and I have to agree with him that it would be nice to not have to worry about that.  He also said that at age 52 I am going to start in menopause soon and will probably have to go on Estrogen at that time.  So, I'm pretty much in the air, I have until the morning of surgery to decide and he will abide with my wishes, of course barring any unforeseen problems once he gets inside.  I've also spoken with several friends who had complete hysterectomy's and they all seen to feel that it was the right decision for them.  Most went through spells where they had to switch medications to finally find the right one, but all are stable now and they all swear that they feel better than before.  He also gave me a business card for a woman who deals in natural hormone medications and suggested I call her so I will do that before I make any definate decisions.  Has anyone gone the natural route?  I asked him if they also provided protection against Osteoporosis and he said no but that there were medications specifically for that so not let that affect my decision.  So, for now I'm still iin the undecided mode and will continue reading and researching and praying that the answer for my personal situation falls in my lap.  Thank you all and I will continue reading and posting and would love to hear from people who have had positive experiences with HRT.  Sorry I'm so self-absorbed right now but this is a big burden on my mind and I can think of little else until after the surgery.   Hugs to all,

FraniI'm finding myself asking another question or two....."is there a cancer history in your family???  Is the doctor thinking of taking your ovaries.....because of only, "the possibility?" Your friends who choose complete hysterectomies....feeling it was the right decision for them, probably was!! However is it for you.....I know...that's what you are trying to find out!!One other question.....have you considered a second opionion?????I'm also going to leave a note in your message box, here on site....for something you can consider!!When you see the little cartoon envelope at the top just click it or the message box and follow the instructions.

Must run now.....shopping day!! *Sheesh* Got alllll  that money to spend!! LOL!!(((Hugs to ya)))Nancy

Hi Fran,I read your reply earlier. I knew what I wanted to answer, but I was afraid to butt into your business too far. I hoped someone braver would say what I was thinking. Congratulations Snowie, you are braver than I, and you said the right thing! (as I see it!)Think of it this way, Fran. I have had both ovaries removed, but the doc left my uterus. With HRT, there is a risk I will get uterine cancer. I have to take progesterone and get a period 4 times a year to keep the risk lower. I am still glad he left my uterus in. From what I have read, the removal of healthy organs can cause problems in the whole body. Consider this too: SEX. Without the NATURAL estrogen, even if it is just a small amount during menopause, you will have a lowered sex drive. I don't care what anyone says,before I had my ovaries out I was in my sexual prime. I was 34 and (forgive the crass phrasing) horny all the time. Since my oopherectomy, I rarely think about sex. (don't have a partner at this time) All the sudden I will realize I haven't thought about it in ages. HRT has a mind of its own and I have waves of desire, but not like I should at my age.

Sooooo many doctors, particularly in America (I am in Germany where there is still a VERY natural approach to medicine...they are NOT in favor of removeíng healthy organs) are too damn quick to castrate women.

I still say get a second opinion.Whatever you choose, we're with ya!LizV.

Thanks again Liz and Snowbird.  I do appreciate what you are both saying and I guess that's why I'm so much in the air about everything still.  Yes, I have considered a 2nd opinion and actually this Dr. is my 2nd opinion and I like him very much.  As I said, he will do whatever I wish regarding the ovaries, however he was just stating his professional opinion.  I know, men don't go through what we women go through, so have no real concept!   However, I do feel like he is correct in that I will go through natural menopause in the near future and will eventually have to rely on HRT.  I also suffer from very bad PMS right now and from what I read that will not change if the ovaries stay in.  Does anyone know if that is correct?   I feel like absolute crap right now, PMSing, but know I won't start a period     Frankly, it doesn't get much worse than I already feel.   I also have to consider that the drug of choice for me right now is Prometrium, which I will never take again.  I do have a message in to the natural hormone therapist and am anxious to hear what she has to say about all this.   I'm really praying that she will help sway my decision one way or the other.  So, I'm still hanging in there, reading everyone's thoughts on the subject and trying to consider every plus and minus of this.   Thanks all,

Frani--

I think the real sticking point here is the "just in case" ovarian Ca prophylaxis (you have to weigh how real this risk is for you, not the population of women at large) compounded by the whole menopause question.

In natural meno, which you will have if you keep your ovaries but may or may not occur sooner than it would without the hyst (the uproar of surgery can conceivably put you straight into meno, but that remains a natural meno), you will continue to produce ovarian hormones. Menopause just means lower levels of hormones, not none. I think docs tend to gloss over that fact, but my observation of lots of women struggling with surgical meno (without ovaries) is that there is a resiliance that is lost when you lose this small reservoir of post-menopausal ovarian production. Your body has a finely-tuned set of feedback mechanisms that determine relative proportions of these hormones that is disrupted when the ovaries disappear. The input of a fixed quantity of hormones thus leaves you at the mercy of things like stress and the disruption it causes, or trying to manually balance them while more or less in the dark about what you need (picture a diabetic trying to control insulin dose by the way they feel in the absence of blood sugar level measurement). Now, don't let me make this too scary: hrt is great and you can do a fine job with it. If your natural output is too extremely miserable, you may even feel better on this kind of stability. I can't guess this for you. But this is the sort of thing you must weigh: the loss of natural resiliance (and the concommitant cost of PMS swings/miseries) vs the artificially-stable levels of even successful hrt. And then throw in those personal risk factors.

Oof, it's complicated stuff. May I offer you a chair till your dizziness passes?

On the other hand, I didn't have the luxury of making that decision, since my ovaries suffered from a whole lot of long words that basically translated into "ticking time bomb." I was pretty well bottomed out in post-natural-menopause so for me, adding hrt was the proverbial welcome long drink of cool water. Whichever way you go, now that you are in the throes of menopause anyway, you can plan on some disruption as you adjust. But you should hang onto your right to have the nature of that disruption be at your choice based on your knowledge (which includes what your doctor tells you) of what you want for your body and the rest of your life.

Hi Fran and everyone,

I am only in my 30's and am currently taking estrogen (Premarin) due to peri-menopausal symptoms.  I had a vaginal hysterectomy in my 20's.  My uterus and cervix were removed.  I had been having severe pain due to endometriosis since I was 10 and past surgery had not helped.  

The question to remove your ovaries depends on you and your medical needs and situation.  Everyone's needs may be different.   For me, I should have gone to an endometriosis specialist and made sure all the endo was removed and also had my ovaries removed.  Yes, unfortunatly with endo having them removed would have been best.  Because they were left in and most ob/gyn's don't know all there is to know about my chronic illness, I am in need of more surgery.  After much research on my disease, I've learned that by keeping the ovaries my chances the disease will re-occur is very high.  I have recently learned that taking estrogen adds fuel to endometriosis.  I'm in the process of going to yet another doctor.  This is an example of why it is good to ask questions and get many opinions until YOU are comfortable with the decision.

Frani, I would have him give you the pros and cons of removing/not removing your ovaries.  I wish I had asked more questions and found a doctor that I really thought "listened" to me.  I may not be in pain again and looking at more surgery.

I wish you the best!!

Molly

Thanks Framboise, I understand exactly where you are coming from, but, after talking with the Hormone replacement therapist in depth I have decided that it is best for me to let him remove the ovaries.   The therapist was wonderful and so informative and helped me see the whole picture much more than my Dr. has time to do.  I'm in menopause already, the beginning stages, and frankly feel miserable most of the time.  I would rather take my risks with Hormones than live like I'm living now with constant PMS and pain.  She has ordered my "all natural" hormone replacement program and it will be mailed to me before surgery so I will not even try the synthetic ones, hopefully ever.  We are starting out with Tri-Est and a progesterone, separately so one can be adjusted individually if needed.  After 2 months she will evaluate me to decide if I need Testesterone also.  She and my GYN work together frequently, so I feel good about that also.  Plus, I believe she will be readily available should I need some tweaks or even for moral support.  I feel good about my decision, finally, even though most of you don't advocate removing the ovaries.  I feel that my situation is different than many, especially at my age, where natural menopause is bound to take over very soon and I will have some control over it from the start.  As for the sex drive, I have none now,  it's much to painful usually, so don't see that leaving the ovaries will have an effect one way or the other in that regard. Plus, the possibility that Testerone may help is a big plus and something to look forward to.  I hope this is not something I regret down the road, and I do appreciate all your input on the negatives and believe me, I have listened and weighed carefully.  My ovaries are healthy now, however they do have cysts on them and from what I've read, that can get worse if left, so I don't want to go back in for more surgery down the road.  Just believe me, I have searched and prayed and feel that while this decision is not the right one for most women, it is right for me.  I finally feel like I can breath again with the decision made.I hope I will still be welcome here.  I seems like I am going against everyone elses beliefs, but trust me, I have read and read, and will continue to read because I think you are all very caring and a group of exceptional women.  Thank you from the bottom of my heart.   One week from today I'll be in surgery, so will certainly need some support!  

MsMolly, I just feel so deeply for you and your situation.  Your problems are so much more severe than mine, yet you reached out to me.  

I sincerely hope that you are able to find a doctor that will fully evaluate your situation and can offer you the proper treatment to finally take care of your problems. You are much too young to live with constant pain and discomfort.  Are you scheduled for more surgery yet?  Please let us know more details.

My heart truly goes out to you and you are a brave woman.  God Bless,  

Hi Fran!Of course we all have our own views on everything to do with our own bodies. But that body is yours and you have to do what you feel is best for you! We were glad to play "devil's advocate" so that you could see all sides of the issue. When you first wrote, you were so confused...and now, just look, you are standing up and making an informed decision!I know I speak for all the other women in here, or at least the ones who have discussed this with you: we respect your choice, we will think of you on the 20th, and we will support you long after your surgery!!!! As they say on Oprah, You Go Girl!As they say in Germany, "alles wird gut!" (Everything will turn out okay!)

Write us as soon as you can!

LizV.

Frani49 ~

Thank you for your kind words.   I have been to many doctors and have been told many things.  Many just don't know all there is to know about my illness.  I have found a Dr. Redwine in the state of Oregon that I am going to to send my medical records and a brief written letter of what I am going through.  If he feels he can help after reading through everything, I will schedule to see him.  He is a specailist with endometriosis (endo for short) and has a great reputation.  Women from all over the world have gone to him.  So, I am thrilled to have found him and have hope once again I have found someone to help me.

I am happy to hear you have made a decision that you are happy with.  I learned the hard way that the doctors don't always know what is best for us.  Geez, if I had listened to some of the advice I was given in the past who knows where I'd be now.  Like most women with the same disease as I, we are told "It's in your head...You need anti depressants...low tolerance for pain...see a therapist..." the list is endless.  I have had to tell some doctors "No Thanks" and leave to find another.  It took me awhile to realize I can listen to my instinct and get another opinion.  I have found most of the "good" doctors will recomend you get another opinion and are not offended at all.

Sorry to ramble...I'm now such a firm believer in finding a doctor that will "listen" and take the time to explain things until I'm certain I am making the right decision for me.  

I will be thinking of you and sincerely wish the best for you.  I just recently found this and one other site and am thrilled I did.  So many women willing to help and give their experiences.  I wish I had found you all sooner!

Take Care,Molly

Thanks Liz, I appreciate the help you've all given me and I do feel good with my decision, finally.  My Dr. is good, one of the best around, so I do trust his judgement and feel that he has my best interest at heart.  Another factor in my decision is that I have no family history to follow. Both my Mother and Sister had hysterectomy's at age 42, both emergency situations from bleeding due to huge fibriods.  It's funny, but when I hit 42 I thought for sure I would end up with the same problem.  Nope!  My Mother had a total hysterectomy and did fine, is still alive at age 81. But she didn't to my knowledge take hormones and has osteoporosis.  My sister, on the other hand, only had a partial, Uterus  removed, and has gone through a hellish menopause - with no HRT because she doesn't believe in it.  Now, at age 57 she has been diagnosed with bone loss, so has to do something.  I hope that this is a wake-up call to her and she will do what her Dr. suggests to protect her bones.  

I don't want any surprises in my life.  I want to take control of my situation now and face it head on and never look back.  And I will.  I will protect myself against Osteoporosis, because it  runs in my family.  I finally feel good after reaching this decision and resolving the HRT problem, and I do believe that your mental state is a big part of the treatment.   I'll be fine, and will see you on the Post-op board!  Thank  you all, and good luck to everyone else.  

Molly, my heart goes out to you, but I am so happy that you have found a specialist in Oregon.  My prayers are with you that this Dr. will be able to offer you the solutions you need.  Do  you have any idea when you will hear from him/her?   Please keep us informed and  you are in my prayers.   Thank you for the support and we are lucky to have found this board, aren't we?  

Hi Frani~

I have got to find all my medical records, that I tucked away somewhere for safe keeping! Too safe, for I can't find them! *grin*  Then I will send all my info and wait for a reply from Dr. David Redwine.

Please let us know how you are doing after your surgery.  Just remember to take it easy...even if you feel pretty good, take it easy.  You don't want to over-do it and end up back in the hospital.  A friend of mine didn't listen, and went back to work way too soon because she was feeling "up to it".  Not a good thing to do.

Take Care and try not to worry too much before surgery day.

Molly

Edited to say: I just saw above where you are also having bladder surgery.  If this is to put it back "up", I had that done with my hysterectomy to.  I had big babies and was told that is why I wet myself every time I sneezed, laughed, coughed...  I have had no trouble with that surgery at all and so glad I did it.  I can tell you I was very sore after surgery.  Make sure you have someone close by after surgery or carry a cordless phone with you.  I thought I was fine and hubby went back to work.  I went to the bathroom and could not get myself up off the toilet when I was done. I sat there about 45 minutes before an aunt came and I hollered for her to...HELP...My legs were numb by then.  I knew I was sore, but the weakness really set in, to.  Take Care ~ Molly

(Edited by MsMolly at 10:20 pm on June 13, 2001)

*hollering* Fraaaaaani~

I sent you an e-mail.  I hope you received it.  I'm sure you are recuperating and have not been on-line...but when ya do ....know that I'm thinking of you!!

Take Care and keep us posted when you are feeling up to it.

Molly

(Edited by MsMolly at 8:11 am on June 27, 2001)