I've been reading here a couple months but there are a few things that I'm confused about that I can't seem to find many answers for and if I do, it seems that I find conflicting opinions.... When I first started complaining to my doctor that I thought I was in peri and told her that my cycles all of a sudden went to 21 days, she told me that this was due to progesterone deficiency and that progesterone dropped off first in peri followed by estrogen later on.... However, when I do searches for this it says that the shortening cycle is due to the follicular phase shortening and that it's a deficiency of estrogen, not progesterone.. So, does anyone know what the real truth is?

Also, I am definitely going to try hormones... I just can't stand this. I have to many symptoms and they are debilitating, not just annoying. They're so severe it's on a daily basis and I cannot even guess anymore whether I'll be able to function one day to the next.. Is there a specific ratio you are supposed to have of estrogen to progesterone? I want to find these things out cause unfortunately, i've already been through the hormonal rollercoaster once in my life with thyroid issues and frankly, I do not have much faith in doctors where endocrinology and hormone replacement goes... I wish I could say differently but my experience has been that it's the few, rather than the majority, who have half a clue where these issues go so if anyone can give me some guidelines I'd really appreciate it.

Rox

Hey rox, I can understand your confusion...I am confused too! I would suggest you buy one of Dr. Elizabeth Vliet's books. She has written a few, but I would go for the newest as it would have the most up to date information. She gives all kinds of information, what tests you should have, what numbers these tests should be, what to do if the numbers are too low or too high. She is a huge believer in bio identical hormone replacement. You can find the books online. Good luck...I take hormones too as I was totally non-functional without them.

Thanks floater..... I will check her book out... I am familiar with her and have watched her lectures several times but that was before I was in peri and while I thought it was all interesting I can't say I paid much attention to details rather than just he gist of it but that is helpful if she tells you what the numbers should be as that is something I am definitely wondering about....

What kind of symptoms did you have if you don't mind sharing and how effective has the hrt been? I mean I'm really non-functional with extreme dizziness and problems with holding my breath, anxiety and panic..... And.... I know it's all hormonal so I do keep my calm about it and I know I'm not psychologically bringing on the anxiety and since I know it's hormonal I'm not panicking and making it worse when it happens but it just won't stop..

Rox

Rox...you sound exactly like me..exactly!!! I suffered from the dizzy lightheaded floaty thing...thus my name of "Floater"...I had a sudden onset of anxiety and panic and know it is hormonally driven. The dizzies and some of the more conventional symptoms bothered me while I was still having periods, but when my periods stopped....all hell broke lose and I ended up an agoraphobic mess!

I started with Ativan, to help with the anxiety and panic and took it daily for 2 months....half an mg. twice a day. I went on Paxil, an SSRI anti-depressant with anti-anxiety properties...after 5 weeks on that I cut out the Ativan except for the odd situations. I then discovered L-Theanine...which is an amino acid, which is a derivative of green tea, which I personally have found excellent for taking away low grade anxiety...and this I take most days still. I started estrogel and prometrium on Dec. 14th and do continuous therapy. It has made a huge difference in my life. I am no longer suffering anxiety or panic...I can sleep most nights....I rarely get hot flashes....I can go out of my house, I can work, I can take on projects...basically I am living a normal life again. I don't feel perfect, I still have some not great days, I am more tired than I want to be...but overall the improvement for me has been monumental!!

I am now going to look at my thyroid function and see if there isn't an issue with that....I have noticed my hair seems to be thinning some, and my body hair has seriously disappeared, and of course the tiredness!!

And that is my story so far........

Floater

Rox,

I also thought it was declining estrogen that caused the cycles to shorten. I read that on a couple websites. I thought progesterone stayed low during the cycle until ovulation when it spikes. It is confusing.
Have you noticed that it seems like you ovulate earlier in your cycle than you used to? I notice the ovulation pain much earlier in my cycle and then the period is coming earlier as well. It is all so whacky and the doctors just seem to make it all more confusing.

I hope you get some help to calm your symptoms. Keep us posted.

Cindy

hi floater....

me too..... came on suddenly... I was literally fine one day and then the next I woke up to one of these attacks. Well, I call it an attack anyway where the second I opened my eyes I immediately went into this horrific panic attack that was followed by breathing so messed up I thought I'd have a heart attack and suffocate myself..... That happens often to me..... I wake up panicky and sometimes, although much rarer, I've also had this happen when trying to fall asleep.

I have tons of other symptoms too but it's really the panic/anxiety/dizziness thing that's really debilitating... And, I've also had this so badly that I have felt like I would faint as well.... Interesting you mention the agorophobia because I'm having that to some degree as well. I mean there are days when I know better than to even attempt to leave the house. Very strange..... Some days I do ok and can zip all over the place run in and out of stores and then the next day I walk into a store and within 30 seconds of me getting in the door I have one of these massive panic attacks....... When they happen in public they are bad because I then get more panicked and have to get out of the store because I get this horrible feeling of doom that I am going to pass out in the store and make a fool of myself..... Otherwise, I'm good at keeping calm when they hit until they pass.....

When you get your thyroid tested, make sure they test your antibodies. Otherwise, you may not get the full picture. So, make sure they do both antibody levels, TSH, Total and Free T4 and T3 levels.. Initially, when this happened the first thing I thought is that my thyroid went off but I went and had it checked and my levels were the same as they've been for years so that wasn't it... But.... even at that, this type of anxiety/panic thing that I have now is much different than the panic/anxiety that I experienced with thyroid. With the thyroid I more or less shook with anxiety 24/7. With this it seems like I have a low level anxiety all the time that at any time can turn into a massive panic attack... With the thyroid it was more severe anxiety all the time but I never actually had a panic attack. Also, with the thyroid, I never had this messed up breathing thing that I'm doing either.... So, I definitely see a difference between the thyroid pattern and this... And, I also notice that my ups and downs follow my cycle.

Rox

Hi Cindy

No...... I seem to be ovulating at the same time or even later, not earlier. Up until this all started though I was always an early ovulator. I never ovulated at day 14. It was always more like days 9-11. Now it seems I have some months where I ovulate at the time I've always ovulated and other times where it seems like I ovulate at days 14-16..... I questioned whether or not I was ovulating at all and recently my doc did a sonogram and I happened to be ovulating at the time of the sono and that was day 14..... From what I can see so far it does still seem that I am ovulating every month as I have all the telltale signs that I am.... I'm still getting the slight cramping I always got as well as the increase in mucous the only thing that seems unpredictable is when it happens...

Rox

Cindy... I have the same cycle changes as you. Ovulating MUCH earlier in my cycle, like day 7 usually and then spotting and build up to a period beginning the next day. My cycles are now averaging 25 days.

Don't know at this moment about the hormones...I thought I got it and then the picture changed again. I am surely just as confused as you. What I DO know is that right now, if I was a synthetic hormone candidate, I would be taking them. My breasts problems don't allow it but even my Dr. said last week, if this continues the way it does it will have to become an option. Going the Phyto route right now. I understand your misery. Mine is the crashing debilitaing fatigue that can go for a week straight, no anxiety/panic attacks just yet.
I hope you find some peace and some answers that will help you get back in shape and ahead of all this!
Hugs,
Girlsmom

A lot of times in peri you do not ovulate, so you don't have the progesterone and your uterine lining sheds earlier. The further into peri, the more it happens. I've always read that shortening periods were due to lack of progesterone, and that "progesterone is the first hormone to go."

what do you think of my lab results?

day 5 estrogen:33
day 20 estrogen:68
day 20 progestrone:3.5

haven't got the testosterone test back yet but in jan. 2005 it was 23 and in aug. 2006 it was 59. what would make it double in a year and a half?

I hope someone who can read those numbers replies to you rayray, I have no idea myself but am hoping to learn.

I have been tracking cycles for about 6 months and there were two months when I wasn't too sure IF I had ovulated..... no real ov pain but lots and lots of days of the EWCM. Anyway, those two months had longer cycles and shorter periods. Other months (and my usual pattern these past two years) is ovulation day 7 and spotting period almost immediately for around a 21 day cycle.

So which months would I have been lower on progesterone?

Kay

Rox, welcome to Power Surge! The most important thing to remember is that although the symptoms may sound and be the same or similar to other women's symptoms, every woman is different and reacts differently to various methods of treatment, SO what may work for someone answering your questions may not work for you. In fact, it might even be dangerous for you.

Without a doubt, the sharing and camraderie on the Power Surge Message Board is wonderful. However, the message board is primarily frequented by lay people who are sharing *their* experiences with you -- but *their* experiences aren't going to be the same as yours and *their* treatments may not be what you need.

Someone mentioned Lee Vliet (Dr. Elizabeth Vliet). I have great respect for Dr. Vliet, or I wouldn't have had her as a Power Surge guest on three occasions. I've also had hundreds of other doctors experienced in the area of menopause, other women's health/menopause experts, such as authors, medical journalists, women's health advocates. Dr. Vliet's theories on bioidentical hormones are her own just as are the many other doctors, authors, medical journalists who've researched, written about and participated in Power Surge.

What you need to keep uppermost in your mind is that the information you're getting from even the guest transcripts on the Web site can only be general in nature because even the doctors don't know you!

No woman on this board, no doctor or bioidentical hormone therapy expert can tell you what will work best for YOU without knowing all your symptoms, knowing your medical history and that of your family, knowing your hormone levels, et al.

There are transcripts of the guest chats in the Transcript Library. It's all listed alphabetically, so you'll find Dr. Vliet's transcripts toward the bottom of the list.

If you do your research on the SITE, you'll find all the information you need and will feel less confused. There are hundreds and hundreds of articles in the Educate Your Body area of the site. They cover a vast range of menopausal issues including health and emotional issues related to the menopausal years.

As for bioidenticals, since its inception back in 1993, Power Surge has been one of the greatest proponents of naturally compounded bioidentical hormones.

There's an excellent area on the site called Ask The Experts.

The best route to take is to ask questions of people who are experts (and Power Surge has only the best) and are familiar with every conceivable symptom of perimenopause (and postmenopause) and how to best treat those symptoms with bioidenticals (if BHRT is your choice). Pete Hueseman, R.Ph, P.D., is a menopause and hormone expert and has been Power Surge's resident menopause/hormone expert and pharmacist for 13 years. He's a registered pharmacist who will give you honest answers about your symptoms and the proper doses of bioidenticals to treat those symptoms - but he will first have to understand your complete medical history in order to do any sort of evaluation.

You can ask him any questions you want in his own area on Power Surge. If you're not happy with your doctor, Pete can recommend another doctor who's area of expertise is bioidentical hormones. Pete will speak to you. He will speak to your doctor. That way, you're getting the most expert advice available by people who have been working with bioidenticals for many years.

You can also ask Power Surge's resident gynecologist, Phillip Warner, M.D. He's in the same Ask The Experts area.

Yes, you can get wonderful support and opinions on this mesage board, but this message board is only one area on a huge Web site. The answers you need to your specific problem cannot and should not be limited to this message board and may not lie on this message board. There is excellent sharing and support, the the answers lie on the REST OF THE WEB SITE - at http://www.power-surge.com

It often amazes me that some of the women who find this board through the seach engines start frequenting it regularly and don't even know there's an enormous site with a wealth of information. Many of them even refer to the "board" as the "site." Not so.

If you go to the main page of the site, you'll see a menu at the top of the pages with areas women need to be directed to first. There are also excellent starter articles by experts on every subject of perimenopause and related issues.

In fact, in many of these forums, above the TOPICS, you'll find an area called IMPORTANT TOPICS with links to articles and transcripts on the site that are related to the issues of that forum. I recommend reading those first.

The site is loaded with newsletters, guest chat transcripts, tips, quizzes, a bookstore, polls, articles written for the lay person (not medical abstracts), and recommendations of many natural treatments for specific symptoms related to perimeno/menopause.

At the bottom (and top of some) pages, you'll find "Power Surge's Quick Links." These will show you the many areas

I know how much everyone enjoys this board. But, I strongly urge that you and those of you who've come directly to this message board to hop over the rest of the multi award-winning Power Surge Web site replete with tons of information on every facet of menopause.

I know. I've been doing this for 14 years.

Best,
Dearest

Hey Rox!
My panic is exactly how you just described!
I'm sick of it and now waiting to hear from a consultation regarding Bio Identical Hormones!
The panic/anxiety/palps are driving me insane!! (

Hugs-Helen

Hey again Rox!

Yep- my anxiety/panic attacks and breathing probs (almost to the point of hyperventilating) all started just like that!! Seems mine are worse when I go to bed (I guess the wondering/thinking--am I dying..in my sleep). It's all madness! I want outta this meno

I'm 49 with no periods for a yr!

Helen

I know exactly how you feel. I can't stand it either. Before you try hormones (BCP/HRT) try some natural alternatives. I am using a cream called progesta-care and a supplement called estrotone. Honestly, I have had some relief since I started taking it on Monday. My symptoms are barely noticeable lately, so I think it may be working. I pray it is, because I was worried I would have to quit my job....things were that bad a week ago. Anyway, only time will tell if it is this working, or if I am just having a good couple of days. But I will say my sister used the estrotone and she swears it saved her sanity. Hope you feel better. It is heck isn't it. rose

Hey MNR!
HECK is an understatement!!
I'm starting to feel more and more like I need to be locked up somewhere (like someone gave me the BIGGEST fright of my life feeling)...it all started happening overnight. At this point I will try anything (and have been trying anything) some things seem to work..some not!
I can't help but wonder how the "less fortunate than I am" women can afford all these "try" things (which is what triggered this episode in me this past month (me feeling soooo bad for a friend of mine).What the heck is wrong with my emotions ) (OH MY GOD, I actually just smiled today..even if at myself) )

Hugs-Helen