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LadyViktoria
Hi Girls, I have been granted permission to post this letter to me re-Amberen and am sharing it with all of you. It is made relatively far simpler than the things we can find on the net, so I hope some of you read it.

The guy that researched this did it for all of us, and is willing as time permits to look into any substance we cannot work out. The words are copied and pasted, so if you read anything you don't like, please don't blame me. blink.gif

________________________

Taking a really close look at a “Functional Food”

Amberen™ may be classified as a Functional Food

First, we need to know what a functional food is. The following definition and explanation was found on Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia

“A Functional food or medicinal food is any fresh or processed food claimed to have a health-promoting and/or disease-preventing property beyond the basic nutritional function of supplying nutrients, although there is no consensus on an exact definition of the term. This is an emerging field in food science, in which such foods are usually accompanied by health claims for marketing purposes. Functional foods are also sometimes called Nutraceuticals.

We also need to know, what the Krebs Cycle is.

The Krebs cycle is also known as the citric acid cycle and also known as the tricarboxylic acid cycle (TCA cycle). It is a series of enzyme-catalyzed chemical reactions of central importance in our bodies that use oxygen as part of cellular respiration in every living body cell. The citric acid cycle is the third step in carbohydrate catabolism (the breakdown of sugars) in all the living cells in our bodies.

Succinate and Fumarate are very closely related compounds formed during the Krebs cycle. Succinate is broken down by cell enzymes directly into Fumarate, giving off Energy for sustaining cell life.

So, What are the listed active ingredients in (Amberen™)

1) Ammonium Succinate – A common ammonium salt formed from the organic compound Succinic acid. In nutraceutical form it is registered as a food additive and dietary supplement, is safe and approved by the FDA.
It is also a source of nitrogen commonly used in agar gels for culturing micro-organisms
It is also used , when combined with a solvent or alcohol, as a stripping and cleaning agent for removing dry-etching photo resist residues from a semiconductor substrate having thereon an aluminum based wiring body formed in a dry-etching step using a photo resist pattern as an etching mask.

2)Calcium Disuccinate- A common Calcium salt formed from the organic compound, Succinic acid. Again, an approved food additive and dietary supplement
3)Monosodium L-Glutamate- More widely known as MSG, a flavor enhancer
4)Lysine- It is one of the 20 amino acids commonly found in proteins,
Glycine is not essential to the human diet, since it is biosynthesized in the body from the amino acid serine. Glycine is also a major part (35%) of collagen.
5) Magnesium Disuccinate Hydrate- A common magnesium salt, containing water molecules (hydrate) as part of its crystalline structure. Again, formed from the organic compound Succinic acid. An approved food additive and safe.

6) Zinc Difumarate Hydrate_ A zinc salt containing water (Hydrate) as part of its crystalline structure. Formed from Fumaric acid. Approved and safe.

Fumaric acid is a very common food acidifying agent, used since 1946 because it is non-toxic. It is generally used in beverages and baking powders for which requirements are placed on purity, such as Welch's Grape Drink, and in Jelly Beans. It is generally used as a substitute for tartaric acid and occasionally in place of citric acid, at a rate of 1.36 g of citric acid to every 0.91 grams of Fumaric acid for the same taste. It is a common component of food additives and dietary supplements, and is sometimes used as a substitute for tartaric acid in beverages or baking powder. It is also used in candy.

7) Tocopherol Acetate- Otherwise known as vitamin E

Other ingredients
Titanium Oxide (white food coloring)
Silicon Dioxide (flow agent to stop clumping)
FD & C Yellow H6 (food coloring)
Magnesium Stearate (food carrier and processing aid)

All these relatively simple, very common food additives somehow add up to this wonderful substance that achieves miraculous results and of course, is expensive.

So,…….What has happened ?.......
Well, basically the United States FDA regulations for “Functional Foods” seem to be a mess, way behind the times and totally inadequate. Other western countries food regulations appear equally inadequate at present.
Perhaps the biggest loophole in the U.S. regulatory scheme utilized by marketers of functional foods is a series of statutory provisions and regulatory policies permitting food and supplement companies to make structure/function claims. Such statements explain how a substance affects the structure of the human body or the normal functioning of a body organ or system. A company simply has to clearly refer to a specific part of the human body, (the hypothalamus in this case) , make the structure/function claim and carry the following mandatory FDA warning on its labeling, to be exempt from the much, much more stringent requirements for drugs.
“These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.”

So, now go to the following link listed below. Scroll down the page to the very bottom of this advertising (free offer)brochure for Amberen™. Read the bottom line very carefully

****I "Viktoria"removed the link to Amberen site as this guy knows nothing about PS rules smile.gif******

Go to Google search and try to find any really accurate information about Lunada Biomedical, (the developers). Good luck.
Curiousity
You know, this is inaccurate and l don't believe that this response has been properly researched. I am a healthy skeptic of anything new but my endocrinologist actually told me that Amberen is legitimate after I brought him the clinical manuscript as I have hypothyroidism and was resistant to try anything that worked within the endocrine system.

I have actually been using Amberen for over a month and have gotten significant relief from hot flashes and have been able to sleep the whole night in 3 years. Just because the ingredients are well known (which, by the way, proves that they are very safe) doesn't mean that they can not have certain effect when used within a context of a pharmaceutical or nutraceutical preparation.

Moreover, you are writing this from the vantage point of a food technician who has a limited knowledge of biochemistry. Your statement about MSG and succinates clearly demonstrates it. You dismiss the use of MSG, because it's a "food enhancer'". But you don't mention thaty MSG is also a known neurotransmitter, which is how it effectively enhances the flavor of food in the first place. You state that succinates are widely used, but you don't mention (probably because you didn't bother to look on their Clinical Info page) that their scientists have been researching succinates for over 30 years, and published manuscripts in prestigious international peer-reviewed journals. I actually searched archives of some of those journals and was able to retrieve those articles and I encourage everyone to do the same thing!

You will see that their science checks out just fine. I wasn't able to find much about Lunada Biomedical on the net either, but their press release does state that it is a newly formed company. However, the professionals they employ are obviously not new to science considering the Neuroendocrine Theory of Aging in every endocrinology text book credits Dilman, who is one of the scientist involved in development of Amberen and founder of the "Theory of Aging".

If you search based on the scientists in Google Scholar who are accredited for the creation of Amberen, (E.Maevsky, Vladimir Dilman, M.N.Kondrashova, A.M.Babsky, Professor Anisimov) you will see several hundred PUBLISHED articles on mitochondrial functions, succinates, and anti aging articles. Also, many leading doctors and scientists agree that succinates have huge potential. For example, one of the top anti-aging doctors in the world, Dr. Ward Dean wrote that the problem of deterioration of neuroendocrine system will likely be addressed with the "balace of the salts of succinates". Sounds like main ingredients in Amberen, doesn't it?

I hate to sound negative but I've been enthusiastically recommending Amberen to all my friends and I would not so without properly researching the science behind it. I believe that when you review or recommend anything, you have to research it well and give it a fair representation. You clearly didn't.

I think we fear what we do not understand but that does not give us the right to say that it is false based on the lack of knowledge. It should be known that "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease." is true for every dietary supplement as NONE of them require the approval in this first place. Also, since when is menopause considered to be a disease anyway?!

Anyway research for yourself a little deeper and talk to an endocrinogist, not a food and chemical technologist. They are SERIOUSLY under qualified!
Floater
Curiosity! I would like to thank you for your post and for the information you provided.

I would also have to apologize as I had specifically asked Flushing Lady to research this product for me, and she went out of her way on my behalf and did so. The content of the MSG scared her, as she is very sensitive to that particular ingredient. So please, don't be upset with her, she is a very kind, smart and helpful person. Be upset with me....I started all this in the first place.

I was thrilled when you had replied on my thread about Amberen and said you had great succes with it. Another friend of mine is on about day 4 or 5 taking Amberen and I am looking forward to seeing her results.

You have to admit that it is always a risk trying something new that promises what the Amberen does. There are so many claims of "miracle" cures for everything out there, and many of them are just a scam I was afraid to waste $100 and asked Flushing Lady to check it out for me. Anyway, I ask again that you not be angry with her. I feel so guilty that you blasted her this way, when it was me that was behind it all!! YIKES!!
LadyViktoria
QUOTE (Floater @ Nov 22 2007, 02:51 AM) *
Curiosity! I would like to thank you for your post and for the information you provided.

I would also have to apologize as I had specifically asked Flushing Lady to research this product for me, and she went out of her way on my behalf and did so. The content of the MSG scared her, as she is very sensitive to that particular ingredient. So please, don't be upset with her, she is a very kind, smart and helpful person. Be upset with me....I started all this in the first place.

I was thrilled when you had replied on my thread about Amberen and said you had great succes with it. Another friend of mine is on about day 4 or 5 taking Amberen and I am looking forward to seeing her results.

You have to admit that it is always a risk trying something new that promises what the Amberen does. There are so many claims of "miracle" cures for everything out there, and many of them are just a scam I was afraid to waste $100 and asked Flushing Lady to check it out for me. Anyway, I ask again that you not be angry with her. I feel so guilty that you blasted her this way, when it was me that was behind it all!! YIKES!!


Dearest Floater,

You, my sweet friend, did not hold a gun to my head to post the information I was given. None of this is your fault, or your problem, but I love you hun for coming to my defence, but trust me, I am quite good at that myself. wink.gif

Floater, no guilt ok? None at all.........please?

Love,
Viktoria
xxx
LadyViktoria
QUOTE (Curiousity @ Nov 22 2007, 02:24 AM) *
You know, this is inaccurate and l don't believe that this response has been properly researched. I am a healthy skeptic of anything new but my endocrinologist actually told me that Amberen is legitimate after I brought him the clinical manuscript as I have hypothyroidism and was resistant to try anything that worked within the endocrine system.

Hi Curiosity,

I posted this research, yes, but it is NOT my own research. Under Google Scholar, the only mentions of Amberen are of the company themselves. That, in, and of itself is not normal. If the article posted is totally, and absolutely innacurate, then I would be very happy to view an article that is totally accurate which I am hoping you can perhaps provide smile.gif


I have actually been using Amberen for over a month and have gotten significant relief from hot flashes and have been able to sleep the whole night in 3 years. Just because the ingredients are well known (which, by the way, proves that they are very safe) doesn't mean that they can not have certain effect when used within a context of a pharmaceutical or nutraceutical preparation.

I am happy that this supplement appears to be working for you, and I mean that sincerely. On the other hand, each ingredient can be bought separately from a health food store, and yes, I agree they are safe.......unless you are like me. 40mg of Monosodium L-Gluconate will land me in a CCU with cardiologists having to get my heart rate down AND take care of an asthma attack. I am NOT an asthma sufferer, but this substance, which I agree is natural, is deadly to me, and I know I am not the only person who could react to this substance.

Moreover, you are writing this from the vantage point of a food technician who has a limited knowledge of biochemistry. Your statement about MSG and succinates clearly demonstrates it. You dismiss the use of MSG, because it's a "food enhancer'". But you don't mention thaty MSG is also a known neurotransmitter, which is how it effectively enhances the flavor of food in the first place. You state that succinates are widely used, but you don't mention (probably because you didn't bother to look on their Clinical Info page) that their scientists have been researching succinates for over 30 years, and published manuscripts in prestigious international peer-reviewed journals. I actually searched archives of some of those journals and was able to retrieve those articles and I encourage everyone to do the same thing!

I did not write it. Yes, Monosodium L-Gluconate is a neurotransmitter. Did you know in some people it is also neurotoxic? And as for your Ad Hominem attack on food technicians, perhaps we should be a little more grateful they do exist. Who do you think manages the quality controls of what goes into our mouths? And I am sorry to disappoint you, but they are excellent on food additives, and the chemical make up of such products. Can they compete with an "endocrinologist"? No, and I never made such a claim. I would be most interested if your endocrinologist would write an article for you to post here giving his/her views. May I also add, that for decades, the medical profession has also stated that Horse Pills were wonderful for women, and they handed them out like candy. I don't remember any endocrinologists stepping forward to say they were deadly for a large portion of the population.
I did read what their scientists have to say, but what do you expect them to say about a product they are marketing?


You will see that their science checks out just fine. I wasn't able to find much about Lunada Biomedical on the net either, but their press release does state that it is a newly formed company. However, the professionals they employ are obviously not new to science considering the Neuroendocrine Theory of Aging in every endocrinology text book credits Dilman, who is one of the scientist involved in development of Amberen and founder of the "Theory of Aging".

I am not, nor have ever said their science does not check out ok. I am NOT a technologist of any type, and I am not the author of the article I posted, and that is clearly stated in my post you are disputing, which you have a right to do. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine, but at the end of the day each of our opinions is only that. An opinion. If you actually read deep enough, you will also see they state that the levels of these substances will NOT be as high in commerce.


If you search based on the scientists in Google Scholar who are accredited for the creation of Amberen, (E.Maevsky, Vladimir Dilman, M.N.Kondrashova, A.M.Babsky, Professor Anisimov) you will see several hundred PUBLISHED articles on mitochondrial functions, succinates, and anti aging articles. Also, many leading doctors and scientists agree that succinates have huge potential. For example, one of the top anti-aging doctors in the world, Dr. Ward Dean wrote that the problem of deterioration of neuroendocrine system will likely be addressed with the "balace of the salts of succinates". Sounds like main ingredients in Amberen, doesn't it?

You can cite one name after another from Google Scholar, and all of what the scientists are saying, but none of them speak about Amberen. If I wanted, I could match every one of your pro articles for succinates with articles that go against the ones you like, and that is how science is. I am NOT for or against Amberen at this stage. In my OWN opinion, it should carry a warning about the Monosodium L-Glutamate. I do not for one minute think that succinates in general will not show promise for the future, but we are not discussing an Rx formulation of succinates. Succinates can have all the potential in the world, but that does not make Amberen the absolute and total savior of the aging of the endocrine system. If it was, it would be an Rx substance.

I hate to sound negative but I've been enthusiastically recommending Amberen to all my friends and I would not so without properly researching the science behind it. I believe that when you review or recommend anything, you have to research it well and give it a fair representation. You clearly didn't.

I am fully aware you are all for the suplement here on Power-Surg, in fact after some time, I thought you were a representative for their company. But that's my meno brain for ya. wink.gif However, my nutty, air-headed words have not been "for" or "against" at this time. I would challenge you to find one post where I have said "Do not take Amberen". I would never write something like that without having a desk-high level of articles to back up my statements, but you are making statements yourself, and providing nothing in writing as evidence for your case proving Amberen works to the standard of the claims made by the company that markets it. I can take a debate against something I personally have written, but you are attacking "me" as being the author of the article, and I am not the author, and this was very plainly stated in the post I made.


I think we fear what we do not understand but that does not give us the right to say that it is false based on the lack of knowledge. It should be known that "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease." is true for every dietary supplement as NONE of them require the approval in this first place. Also, since when is menopause considered to be a disease anyway?!

I fear Monosodium L-Glutamate because I DO know and understand what it can do to me, and it does have effects on 'some' other people as well. You are very fortunate not to have a chemical make-up like mine, or you would not be standing up on Amberen. Then again, we are all different. You have thyroid problems, I don't, and on it goes, so there is never going to be a "one size fits all". If someone wishes to try Amberen or some other substance, I wish them all the best. I wish YOU all the best, but please take into account that I am NOT the author of the article I posted.

Anyway research for yourself a little deeper and talk to an endocrinogist, not a food and chemical technologist. They are SERIOUSLY under qualified!

As for your last sentence.......you are entitled to your opinion. But as I said before, an opinion is just that. An opinion.


Sincerely,
-Viktoria
rendy
Curiosity and Floater, please keep posting on your, or your friend's response to Amberen. I am sure I spend at least $30 a month on the supplements I take today and at this point they are no longer doing the job. I cannot take SSRIs or any of the benzos so I'm certainly willing to try something new. I see my doctor the first of December and I'll ask him about it as well.

FL, thank you for posting the information on the ingredients. I have no issues with MSG and it is quite a relief to know that none of the ingredients are dangerous. I don't mind wasting a bit MORE money but I really don't want to kill myself!
LadyViktoria
QUOTE (rendy @ Nov 24 2007, 11:59 PM) *
Curiosity and Floater, please keep posting on your, or your friend's response to Amberen. I am sure I spend at least $30 a month on the supplements I take today and at this point they are no longer doing the job. I cannot take SSRIs or any of the benzos so I'm certainly willing to try something new. I see my doctor the first of December and I'll ask him about it as well.

FL, thank you for posting the information on the ingredients. I have no issues with MSG and it is quite a relief to know that none of the ingredients are dangerous. I don't mind wasting a bit MORE money but I really don't want to kill myself!


Dearest Rendy,

I think it is important for me to let you know that I am not Pro Amberen, and neither am I Anti Amberen. My replies "in bold" were to Curiosity.

Amberen is something I, personally would not waste my $'s on. But for those that do want to try, there is nothing that can harm you in it, unless you are sensitive to Monosodium L-Glutamate.

Hugs,
Viktoria wink.gif
Curiousity
Here is an article for you on MSG and why it can't hurt you and safer than salt!!

Is MSG a Serious Public Health Problem?

Good through December 2010

By James J. Kenney, Ph.D., R.D., F.A.C.N.

What is MSG (1)
What is the MSG Symptom Complex? (2)
Is the MSC Associated with Any Physical Symptoms? (2)
MSG and Food Terrorism (3)
Does MSG Cause Allergic Reactions and Asthma? (3)
Does MSG Cause Nerve damage or Alter Hormone Levels? (4)
MSG is High in Sodium So Does It Promote Hypertension? (5)
Salt Is Far More Dangerous Than MSG (5)
Conclusions (6)
References (7)

Back in 1968 a Korean-American physician wrote a letter to the editor of the New England Journal of Medicine describing an unusual physiological reaction he often experienced while dining at a Chinese restaurant, which he dubbed the "Chinese restaurant syndrome."[1] Dr. Kwok described the symptoms as "numbness at the back of the neck, gradually radiating to both arms and the back, general weakness and palpitations." Other anecdotal reports expanded the symptom complex to include muscle tightness, tingling sensations, headaches and chest pains or heart palpitations. It became known as the "Chinese restaurant syndrome". More recently this reaction has been renamed the more politically correct "MSG symptom complex" (MSC). Over the past several decades many Americans have become convinced that MSG is the source of not only this symptom complex but also a wide variety of other symptoms including some serious illnesses and even death.

What is MSG?
MSG is the sodium salt of L-glutamic acid (GLU). GLU is the most common amino acid found in the human body and a major constituent of virtually every protein in the human body. It also occurs naturally in every plant and animal primarily as part of enzymes, structural proteins, etc. Free GLU is also found in varying amounts in many foods. Fermented soy products, Parmesan cheese and tomato juice all contain fairly large amounts of free GLU. Most proteins found in plants and animals contain from 5 to 25% GLU. Life as we know it would not be possible without glutamate. The average American consumes at least 5,000 to 10,000 mg of GLU daily even if all the foods and beverages they consumed had no added MSG. By contrast, the average American consumes only a few hundred milligrams of glutamate daily as added MSG. MSG is "generally recognized as safe" by the FDA. A 1995 report by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology found no convincing evidence that MSG posed any serious threat to public health.[2] Nevertheless, MSG is believed by many people to pose a serious threat to their health and well-being.

Chefs and the commercial food industry to enhance the flavor of a wide variety of foods use MSG frequently. It is also sold in supermarkets as “Accent” and has been used by many people to flavor foods prepared at home for many years in the U.S. and even longer in parts of Asia. Some researchers regard the flavor of MSG to a fifth taste in addition to salty, sweet, sour and bitter. The Japanese call the taste of MSG "unami" and describe it as a salty, meaty flavor.

What is the MSG Symptom Complex?
The MSC is a group of symptoms that can occur in many people after the consumption of fairly large amounts of MSG. In susceptible individuals the MSC is most likely to occur about 15 to 25 minutes after the consumption of at least 2-3g of MSG without solid food and on an empty stomach. Typical symptoms such as a burning or heat sensation in the face, neck and upper torso may be accompanied by a feeling of tightness or stiffness in the chest, arms and/or back. There may also be a feeling of weakness, heart palpitations, and diffuse pain in the chest area. These symptoms typically begin to subside within 20 to 30 minutes after they start. Typically the MSC is gone completely within an hour and never last as long as two hours.[3]

Some studies have reported a small increased risk of headaches with very high doses of MSG. However, a recent double-blind placebo controlled trial found no difference in headaches in subjects given either 1.5 or 3 g of MSG or a placebo (lactose) in capsules.[4] If headaches are part of the MSC they are certainly an uncommon reaction and if they occur at all as a result of MSG intake it is only when unusually large amounts are consumed on an empty stomach. There are, of course, many anecdotal reports of different symptoms and much longer lasting symptoms associated with the intake of even small amounts of MSG. However, there is no credible research from any well-designed studies that have found other symptoms that result from the ingestion of MSG.

Is the MSC Associated with Any Physical Symptoms?
The MSC usually occurs when a fairly large amount of MSG is consumed on an empty stomach in a broth or soup at an Oriental restaurant. Typically at least 3-5g of MSG must be consumed within short period of time to trigger the MSC. However, even in people who react consistently to MSG in a liquid the same amount of MSG consumed with solid food does not usually elicit the same reaction or any reaction at all in most cases.[5] Under controlled conditions no objective changes in blood chemistry (except for a transient rise in GLU levels), blood pressure, skin temperature, etc. have been observed while people are experiencing these symptoms.[6] So while the symptoms of MSC are clearly felt by many people there are no accompanying physical changes in the body that can be measured objectively to verify the presence of such symptoms.

The MSC can be triggered in perhaps 30% of Americans who consumed at least one to two tsp. (3-6g) of MSG in a broth-type soup or other liquid on an empty stomach. Even under these circumstances the consumption of less than 2-3g of MSG is usually insufficient to create MSC symptoms in nearly all people who report having experienced the MSC in the past. It should be noted that more than 1g of MSG per serving in tomato juice or soup does not usually improve overall palatability. Therefore, the amount of MSG needed to maximally enhance flavor and sensory pleasure is well below the threshold for triggering the MSC in nearly all people. The consumption of a high carbohydrate food before or with the MSG usually blocks the MSC in susceptible individuals. If MSG is used in moderation and consumed with some carbohydrate-rich food then it seems unlikely that MSG will cause any physiological or psychological changes in the body.

MSG and Food Terrorism
Despite the relatively transient and benign nature of the MSC there are several groups of people and many individuals who claim MSG is responsible for far more serious health problems than the relatively benign and transient MSC. For example, the website for the National Organization to Stop Glutamate has claimed that MSG caused “Headaches, migraines, stomach upset, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, irritable bowel syndrome, asthma attacks, shortness of breath, anxiety or panic attacks, heart palpitation, partial paralysis, ‘heart-attack-like symptoms’, balance difficulties, mental confusion, mood swings, neurological disorders (Parkinson’s, MS, ALS, Alzheimer’s), behavior disorders (especially in children and teens), allergy-type symptoms, skin rashes, runny nose, bags under the eyes, flushing, mouth lesions, depression, and more.”[7] However, the vast majority of these symptoms and all of the more serious health problems listed on this website have not been shown to be related to the consumption of MSG in well-designed scientific studies.

Promoters of nutrition quackery claim that a particular supplement and/or diet is a miraculous cure for a variety of health problems. Promoting fad diets and supplements as being effective for the treatment or prevention of disease in the absence of credible scientific evidence is quackery. Food terrorism is the flip side of nutrition quackery. A food terrorist claims that some component of food is responsible for causing disease in the absence of credible scientific evidence to support such a claim. Those who claim MSG causes serious health problems have the burden of supporting their claims. However, because the food terrorism surrounding the use and safety of MSG has become so great there has been a fair amount of research designed to establish the true impact of consuming MSG on the body.

Does MSG Cause Allergic Reactions and Asthma?
It has been reported that MSG triggers asthmatic attacks in people with asthma.[8] However, in studies that reported that some people responded with bronchospasm to MSG were flawed. In these studies the subjects were removed from their asthma medication(s) a day or two before the MSG challenge and there was no placebo group. Removal of medication was probably the reason for the increase in symptoms on the following day rather than the exposure to MSG. Six subsequent studies which were better designed and utilized a control group have failed to find any difference in asthmatic symptoms with MSG compared with a placebo. This was the case even though some of subjects in these studies had believed MSG triggered bronchospasm in them prior to double blind testing. A recent review found no evidence linking MSG use to asthma.[9]

Another study found no evidence of hives being triggered by MSG in patients with chronic hives (urticaria). [10] It is very unlikely that MSG is ever the cause of allergic reactions. Indeed it seems obvious that one cannot be truly allergic to an amino acid that is found in every living plant and animal. People who have experienced food related bronchospasms in an oriental restaurant were most likely responding to sulfiting agents used to preventing browning of chopped vegetables. Because asthma, hives and other allergic reactions can be triggered by emotions as well as allergens it is quite possible that someone who reports hives, asthmatic or other allergic symptoms to MSG may be responding emotionally simply because they fear MSG was in something they ate and causes such symptoms. In some cases perhaps some other allergen is present in the food or meal consumed along with the MSG. Cold air, cigarette smoke, dust and other environmental insults are more far more likely the cause of bronchospasm, which occurs in an Oriental restaurant than is exposure to MSG. A double-blind challenge may be useful in convincing patients that they are not really allergic to MSG.

There is no convincing scientific research linking the use of MSG to asthma attacks or any other type of allergic reaction. Claims that MSG is the cause of bronchospasm or other allergic reactions should be viewed with skepticism. So how can all of the anecdotal reports of allergic-type reactions to MSG be explained? The occurrence of psychosomatic induced symptoms is well established.[11] It is known that many more people believe they are “allergic” to foods and food additives than can actually be demonstrated using objective examination such as double-blind challenges.[12]

Does MSG Cause Nerve damage or Alter Hormone Levels?
Extremely high levels of MSG have been shown to acutely destroy brain tissue in weanling mice.[13] However, in most animals GLU in the blood does not cross the blood-brain barrier and causes no neurological damage. Chronic feeding of MSG to rabbits, dogs and monkeys found that even doses as high as 42g MSG/Kg body weight failed to cause any neurological damage.[14] For a 70 Kg man this dose would be 2940 g daily or over 6 lbs of MSG per day.

There is a part of the hypothalamus that is not protected by the blood brain barrier and it is this part of the brain that is damaged by very high levels of MSG in the blood in weanling mice. This part of the brain uses GLU as a neurotransmitter to trigger the release of pituitary hormones. However, in human subjects consuming 12.7g of MSG was shown to have no effect on any pituitary or other hormone levels even though this dose markedly elevated plasma GLU levels.

Concern that MSG added to the maternal diet also might harm the developing fetus or a breast fed infant appears to be unwarranted. This is because increased GLU in maternal blood does not affect GLU in the brains or other tissues of the fetus nor does it increase the GLU content of breast milk.[15] It therefore seems most unlikely that the consumption of MSG poses any risk to the brain of either adults or developing babies.

An epidemiological survey of about 5000 users and nonusers of MSG in Hawaii found that chronic use of MSG was not associated with any increase in neurological problems. It also showed that the regular use of MSG did not affect serum cholesterol or blood sugar levels and had no effect on body weight.[16] Despite anecdotal reports that MSG contributes to all sorts of neurological problems including Parkinson’s disease and Alzheimer’s' disease there is no credible scientific research to support any damage to the neurological system from the regular use of MSG.

MSG is High in Sodium So Does It Promote Hypertension?
People with hypertension are often advised to avoid MSG and other sources of sodium. However, there is no evidence that sodium from MSG, or sources other than salt raises BP or contributes to the development of HTN. Indeed, sodium as salt (NaCl) has been shown to be far more toxic to the body than sodium without the chloride such as MSG, sodium bicarbonate or sodium citrate. In animals the acute lethal dose of MSG that kills 50% (LD 50) of rats and mice (15,000+mg/kg b.wt.) is more than 10 times higher than that of salt. [17] Clearly then research in animals proves that MSG is far less toxic to the body than salt.

The recent DASH-Sodium trial when coupled with other research has demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that Americans should be consuming far less than 1500 mg of sodium daily to reduce problems with high blood pressure.[18] This study showed that an increase in dietary sodium from salt from 1500mg to 2400mg resulted in a significant increase in blood pressure in both normotensive and hypertensive subjects. By contrast, the consumption of up to 120g of MSG (about 48,000mg of sodium) for an extended period of time did not increase blood pressure at all. In fact, this extremely large amount of sodium from MSG resulted in a slight drop in both blood pressure and blood sugar levels and produced no detectable changes in neurological function. [19] Research has shown that when the same amount of sodium is fed as compounds other than salt (i.e. sodium citrate, sodium bicarbonate and MSG) there is no significant increase in blood pressure as occurs with a similar amount of sodium from salt.[20] [21]

A teaspoon of salt has more than four times the sodium content as teaspoon of MSG (2,150 Vs 492mg, respectively). If food that is normally prepared with MSG is prepared without it the flavor and sensory pleasure associated with its consumption will be reduced. To compensate for this loss of flavor enhancement most chefs and food manufacturers would likely compensate for the loss of MSG by the addition of more salt or salt-rich ingredients such as soy sauce. By contrast, if MSG were used in place of salt in the preparation of soups, salad dressings, sauces, French fries, chips, etc. then the amount of salt and sodium these foods contain would be reduced by over 75%. Food manufacturers could use a combination of MSG and monopotassium glutamate in many foods in place of most of the salt and drastically reduce the salt (and sodium) content of many food items.

Salt Is Far More Dangerous Than MSG
In contrast to the dearth of credible scientific evidence linking the consumption of MSG with any serious health problem in humans there is compelling scientific evidence linking excessive salt intake with a wide variety of serious and common health problems. Because of the growing reluctance of chefs and food manufacturers to use MSG due to the tactics of food terrorist it is likely that salt intake may be increased. The removal of MSG from a recipe often results in a need for greater amounts of salt and salty ingredients to enhance flavor.

A diet high in salt has been shown to reduce peak bone mass in young females.[22] In postmenopausal women, an increase in dietary salt has been shown to result in a reduction in bone mineral density and an increased risk of osteoporosis.[23] Increasing dietary salt has consistently been linked with an increased excretion of calcium in the urine. However, the same amount of sodium given without chloride has no effect on calcium loss.[24] This suggests that replacing salt with MSG would reduce the risk of developing osteoporosis.

About 8-15% of people in the U.S. will develop kidney stones during their lifetime. The increase loss of calcium in the urine that results from consuming increasing amounts of salt is also believed to contribute to the development of kidney stones.[25] Because sodium without chloride does not increase calcium excretion it seems likely that replacing dietary salt with MSG may help reduce the risk of kidney stones. Increasing dietary salt tends to increase blood pressure. Even modestly elevated blood pressure was recently shown to greatly increase the risk of developing kidney cancer.[26] Because sodium without chloride does not appear to raise blood pressure it seems likely that replacing salt with MSG may reduce the risk of kidney cancer.

Dietary salt is caustic to the esophagus and gastric mucosa. In China an increased intake of salty foods has been linked to an increased risk of esophageal and stomach cancer.[27] Excess dietary salt is known to promote atrophic gastritis, which sets the stage for the development of stomach cancer.[28] [29] By contrast, there is no evidence linking the consumption of MSG to either gastric atrophy or stomach cancer.

Excessive salt intake has been associated with an increased risk of developing high blood pressure, stroke, coronary artery disease, heart and kidney failure, osteoporosis, stomach cancer, and possibly kidney stones.[30] Too much dietary salt may also promote headaches and may increase bronchospasm in people with asthma. Overall the scientific evidence linking excessive salt intake to a wide variety of serious diseases is compelling. By contrast, the use of MSG in place of salt may help prevent all these serious health problems. It makes little sense from a public health perspective to advocate the removal of MSG from food when the likely consequence will be an increased reliance on salt and salty ingredients such as soy sauce.

Conclusions
1. The MSC is an unpleasant reaction that results from the consumption of fairly large amounts of MSG. As many as 30% of people may be susceptible to this symptom complex if large amounts of MSG (5g or more) are consumed on an empty stomach in a liquid (usually a brothy soup). The MSC generally lasts about 20 to 30 minutes and rarely as long as one hour.

2. The MSC can be avoided in most cases if a high carbohydrate food is consumed before or with the MSG or if the total amount of MSG consumed at one meal is no more than 2g in a liquid. If the MSG intake is limited to 2g or less and/or consumed with solid foods no one has been shown to experience the MSC even though many people have been tested in carefully controlled studies.

3. Claims that MSG causes neurological damage in the fetus, newborns, or adults are without scientific merit. Claims that MSG causes Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis or Lou Gehrig’s disease (ALS) are specious.

4. Claims that MSG causes allergic reactions or bronchospasm in people with asthma have not been demonstrated in properly designed and blinded studies. People who believe MSG causes heir asthmatic symptoms should be tested in a blinded fashion with capsule containing MSG or a placebo. Believing that MSG is causing asthmatic symptoms may discourage people from seeking the true allergens or environmental stressors that are triggering the bronchospasm.

5. The same amount of sodium consumed as MSG is far less toxic to the body than an equivalent amount from salt. Avoiding MSG could contribute to an increased salt intake. Replacing salt with MSG (tsp for tsp) may help prevent or lower high blood pressure. It would also reduce the loss of calcium in the urine and may help reduce the risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones.

6. Replacing salt with MSG may also reduce the risk of stomach and esophageal cancer. By preventing HTN, replacing salt with MSG may also reduce the risk of kidney cancer.

7. There is a lot of irrational fear and concern about the use of MSG as a food additive in America. This fear is largely the result of unsubstantiated claims of health problems blamed on MSG. It seems likely that nearly all of the serious health problems and most of the unusual symptoms, which are believed to be caused by MSG, are due either to something else or are psychosomatic in origin. The irrational fear many people now have about consuming even small amounts of MSG is largely the result of a well-orchestrated campaign of food terrorism.

8. Believing that small amounts of MSG consumed with solid foods can cause symptoms like heart palpitations, shortness of breath, weakness and chest pain may lead some people to dismiss symptoms of a heart attack as simply an adverse reaction to MSG. This could be a fatal error. Chest pain or tightness that is not accompanied by flushing or burning sensations is unlikely to be related to MSG intake.

9. There is better evidence linking salt intake to headaches, including migraines than there is linking headaches to MSG intake.

FMI:

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/msg.html

http://ificinfo.health.org/brochure/msg.htm

References:

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[1] Kwok RHM. Chinese restaurant syndrome (letter). N Engl J Med 1968;278:796

[2] Raiten DJ, Talbot JM, Fusher FD, editors. Analysis of adverse reactions to MSG). Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology Publisher. American Institute of Nutrition, 1995, p. 1-119

[3] Kenney RA, Tidball CS. Human susceptibility to oral monosodium L-glutamate. Am J Clin Nutr 1972;25:140-6

[4] Prawirohardjono W, Dwiprahasto I, Astuti I, et al. The administration to Indonesians of monosodium L-glutamate in Indonesian foods: an assessment of adverse reactions in a randomized double blind, crossover, placebo-controlled study. J Nutr 2000;130:1074S-6S

[5] Geha RS, Beizer A, Ron C, et al. Multicenter, double-blind, placebo controlled, multiple challenge evaluation of reported reactions to monosodium glutamate. J Allergy Clin Immunol 2000;106:973-80

[6] Geha RS, Beiser A, Ren C, et al. Review of alleged reactions to monosodium glutamate and outcome of a multicenter double-blind placebo controlled study. J Nutr 2000;130(Suppl):1058S-62S

[7] www.nomsg.com 3/6/01

[8] Allen DH, Delohery J, Baker G. Monosodium L-glutamate-induced asthma. J Allergy Clin Immunol 1987;80;530-7

[9] Stevenson DD. Monosodium glutamate and asthma. J Nutr 2000;130(suppl):1067S-73S

[10] Simon RA. Additive-induced urticaria: experience with monosodium glutamate. J Nutr 2000;130(Suppl):1063S-66S

[11] Shorter E. From paralysis to fatigue: a history of psychosomatic illness in the modern era. 1993, Free press

[12] Altman DR, Chiaramonte LT. Public perception of food allergy. J Allergy Clin Immunol. 1996;97:1247-51

[13] Olney JW. Brain lesions, obesity and other disturbances in mice treated with monosodium glutamate. Science, NY 1969;164:719

[14] Heywood R, Worden AN. Glutamate toxicity in laboratory animals. In Glutamic Acid: Advances in Biochemistry and Physiology. Edited by LJ Filer,Jr et al. p. 363. Raven Press, New York

[15] Fernstrom JD. Pituitary hormone secretion in normal male humans: acute responses to a large, oral dose of monosodium glutamate. J Nutr 2000;130(Suppl): 1053S-7S

[16] Go G, Nakamura FH, Rhoads GG, Dickerson LE. Long-term health effects of monosodium glutamate. Hawaii Med J. 1973;32:13-7

[17] Walker R Lupien JR. The safety evaluation of monosodium glutamate. J Nutr 2000;130:1049S-52S

[18] Sacks FM, Svetsky LP, Vollmer WM, et al. Effects on blood pressure of reduced dietary sodium and the dietary approaches to stop hypertension (DASH) diet. N Engl J Med 2001;344:3-10

[19] Bazzan G, D'Elia JA, Olson RE. Monosodium glutamate: feeding large amounts to man and gerbils. Science 1970;169:208-13

[20] Kurtz TW, Hamoudi AA, Morris RC. "Salt-sensitive" essential hypertension in men. N Engl J Med 1987;317:1043-8

[21] Boegehold MA, Kotchen TA. Importance of dietary chloride for salt sensitivity of blood pressure. Hypertension 1991;17(Suppl 1):158-61

[22] Matkovic V, Ilich JS, Andon MB, et al. Urinary calcium, sodium, and bone mass of young females. Am J Clin Nutr 1995;62:417-25

[23] Zarkadas M, Gougeon-Reyburn R, Marliss EB, et al. Sodium chloride supplementation and urinary calcium excretion in postmenopausal women. Am J Clin Nutr 1989;50:1088-94

[24] Massey LK, Whiting SJ. Review: dietary salt, urinary calcium and bone loss. J Bone and Min Res 1996;16:731-6

[25] Pak CYC. Kidney stones. Lancet 1998;351:1797-801

[26] Chow W-H, Gridley G, Fraumeni JF, Jarvholm B. Obesity, hypertension, and the risk of kidney cancer in men. N Engl J Med 2000;343:1305-11

[27] Lu J-B, Qin Y-M. Correlation between high salt intake and mortality rates for esophageal and gastric cancers in Henan Province, China. Int J Epidemiol 1987;16:171-6

[28] Fuchs CS, Mayer RJ. Review article: gastric carcinoma. N Engl J Med 1995;333:32-41, Joosens JV, Geboers J. Dietary salt and risks to health. Am J Clin Nutr 1987;45:1277-88

[29] Kono S, Hirohata T. Nutrition and stomach cancer. Cancer Causes Control 1996;7:41-55

[30] Kenney JJ. Salt: Has it been given a fair shake? Or is it a serial killer? http://www.foodandhealth.com
LadyViktoria
Curiosity, this is my final post on this matter, and is without links as that is against forum policy.

Direct from John Hopkins-:

It has been discussed lately in allergist office magazines that MSG is not an allergen. It was never considered one. What most people don't realize is the difference between food allergy and food intolerance or sensitivity.

MSG Sensitivity

Unlike food allergies which affect only certain individuals (only 2% - 5% of the population), and involve an antibody response of the immune system, food sensitivities affect many more people. You can be allergic to carrots and have an immune response to them, and someone else may have absolutely no immune response at all. Sensitivities are a different matter. There are no antibodies involved and in the case of MSG, the free glutamic acid in it acts in us all in the same way. It is a neurotransmitter - it causes nerve cells to fire. The reason MSG is used by food companies is because in the average human it stimulates the nerve cells in your mouth, as well as the brain. It targets the centers of hunger and taste and smell. If it only worked in 2% of the population, there wouldn't be any money in it. It is basically a drug like alcohol or caffeine. However, the sensitivity response of any individual is simply a matter of degree.
MSG and the Immune System

Unfortunately, MSG also may affect the allergy response as well although it may not initiate it. According to new research from Johns Hopkins, the immune system is disturbed by nervous system over-stimulation. This is a problem because MSG is a nervous system excitatory neurotransmitter. Glutamate triggers nerve cells to fire. See the following link for info regarding this latest research:



The following is a link to information about glutamate increasing histamine by 150%:



This makes the argument by MSG sellers and their spokespersons about MSG being blamed for deadly reactions in restaurants actually caused by true allergens i.e. seafood, peanuts, etc. disingenuous. There are attempts by the industry to place the blame squarely on histamine alone as the culprit in these deaths.

Consider: If the presence of glutamate triggers a more severe histamine response than otherwise would be suffered by the unwitting allergic victim, perhaps MSG did not kill the victim directly, but was actually an accomplice. Perhaps the individual would have survived had MSG not also been in the offending food.

One has to conclude that if MSG exacerbates an already-occurring allergic reaction, then it would appear to be an extremely dangerous unnecessary food additive to place in restaurant meal.


You are patly right Curiosity, but partly wrong. MSG is not safe for every human being, and like you, I could post article after article from different sources to "prove my point", but I do not wish this for THIS forum. I just want ANY woman to know that if she is MSG sensitive, then she knows what she is playing with.

Yes, the Monosodium L-Glutamate is NOT in a meal in this case, but it IS in a supplement.

I bid you adieu on this matter.
-Viktoria
RoundRobin
Viktoria: I appreciate that you're wanting this debate to come to a conclusion, but being that I'm outspoken, and have been around here awhile, and also being that I'm a former chemistry teacher, I wanted to add my 2 cents. In person's who have a sensitivity to MSG, it can be dangerous, if not deadly. I"m one of those people. I've had two severe MSG reactions in my life; one from pickled ginger eaten in a Japanese restaurant (it was loaded with MSG...and I couldn't stop eating it...my brain just kept saying, oh my goodness, how delicious-eat more, eat more...I was like a tiny mouse hitting a lever over and over again.) I ended up in the hospital that night.

I have developed the practice of always asking, in a restaurant, if MSG is added to their food. Unfortuanately, it may not be sprinkled in by the cook, but an astonishing number of pre-prepared foods contain it. On my second occasion, I ate French onion soup in a nice little pub---my husband was with me. Within minutes, my heart begain to beat hard and fast, I was sweating profusely, couldn't breathe, and, for all intensive purposes, looked like I was having a heart attack. I also experienced hallucinations...the clocks and paintings were flying off the wall--it was awful. The manager camed out with a jar of the soup-base they used to prepare my dish. The first ingredient was monosodium glutamate.

Amberen may have indeed helped many women, but if I ever took it, I'd be in an ambulance in minutes.
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