Hi Everyone,

As some of you know, I abruptly stopped my periods in April 2006, and had a psychotic episode as a result, complete with visual and auditory hallucinations. It is rare and referred to as menopausal psychosis. Now that I am feeling a little bit better, I have been trying to understand what happened to me. I found a great book in Barnes and Noble, and want to share it with anyone who may be interested.

It is called "The Estrogen-Depression Connection" by Karen Miller and Steven Rogers, and I find it to be fantastic. Miller is a neuropsychologist at UCLA, and Rogers is a professor of clinical psychology in Santa Barbara. The book is intelligent but very readable. It is very comforting. I hope those of you who suffer/have suffered from depression will find it as helpful as I am.

Sending good thoughts to all warriors in this ongoing battle,
Marcy

[I am so sorry to hear about what happened to you. Do you think you could share some of what has been comforting in the book with us? I don't get out of the house much and live in a small town, unlikely I could find it here. I have gone into menopause very abruptly and not from surgery...and am definitely messed up with depression and debilitating anxiety. It has pretty much made my life come to a complete stop and is causing countless problems in my personal and business life.

Anything words of wisdom you learned from the book would sure be appreciated.

Thanks
Floater

Oh thanks so much for sharing this with us, i suffer a little depression and noises bother me. Maybe reading this book will help me to understand what the heck is going on.Hugs Lizardlover

Just adding my experience. I also suffered menopausal psychosis because I was so uniformed. I thought I could ride this out without any extra effort. WRONG. Even now, it is a horrible nightmare. I do better for a while and then it's back. Thanks for recommending the book. I am going to pick it up. Keep in mind you can order this book over the net, I imagine. I will check out one of the online booksellers.

Hang in there Ladies, what choice do we have? I honestly believe that one day, they will find the cure. I really do.

ygirl

Floater, I just ordered that book online for $10 used. Why don't you do the same?

It interests me because there is another psychiatrist professor at UC San Diego, Dr. Lewis Judd who is a well known researcher on the estrogen-depression connection and I figure all of these gentlemen know each other.

L, Ygirl

Dear Marcy,

I have been in meno since 2004, and since then, my psychiatric symptoms have gone into overdrive. My OCD has turned into a neurosis, and my compulsions have turned into a constant mania. So now, I am being treated for BOTH BiPloar disorder AND OCD.

But I have never had an episode of depression, since my estrogen went away. I actually became MORE energetic. I do have high testosterone levels, though. I've had all my hormone levels checked twice a year, to make sure. I do not take any type of HRT, and my OB doctor recommended against it, since there is so much hormonal cancer family history in my tree. (Both breast, ovarian and prostate for the men)

Does it mention anything about the lack of estrogen causing episodes of mania, or just depression?

Does anyone else know? Or maybe I should just spend the money and buy the book, even though this is not applicable to me. At least I might learn something.

Hello, ygirl. Are you currently under treatment for psychosis? What meds are you taking, and do they work for you?

I'm just curious, because before I came to PS, I thought I was the only meno induced psychotic on the planet.

Perhaps we could also talk with you, Marcy, either PM or in my OCD thread here on the boards.

I would like to compare our treatments....what works for you.....what doesn't , etc.
At least we will support each other with a bit of helpful information, and know we are not alone in this insanity.

Dear Armadillo and ygirl,

I would love that. I was sure that I was the only meno-induced psychotic on the planet.

I slipped into an entire unreal world. I thought people were in and out of my house. I saw them, heard them, and talked back to them. I took orders from them. I left them notes. At one point I thought they were taking my jewelry, so I put it all in a suitcase and asked a friend if I coud store the suitcase in her basement. One Friday night, after not sleeping for at least 3 days, I was convinced that my body was full of aneurisms. I walked barefoot at midnight to a friend across town and told him and his wife that they needed to get me to a surgeon. They did in fact take me to a mutual friend who is a neurosurgeon. Apparently, he could tell right away that I was psychotic. They took me to the local ER. After that I spent 5 weeks in a psych. hospital.

In the hospital, I thought I was in a ward with all dead people. I thought I was dead. That my food was being poisoned, that the water had arsenic. I heard voices telling me that no one would ever come to get me, that the hospital was going to kick me out and let me die outside the door. I kept telling the staff to "listen to the voices." When friends came to visit me, I thought they were impostors. God "talked" to me and told me I was being denied entrance to the afterlife. I heard friends telling me that they had spent all my money and that I had nothing left. I thought there were helicipters circling around the hospital trying to help me. I was terrified that the windows were too thick for the life-saving "treatment" to get through.

And on and on. I was given xyprexa (a newer atypical antipsychotic) and eventually the psychosis nearly abated. But they let me out of the hospital too soon. About 5 weeks later, I "saw" someone in my kitchen who encouraged me to take an overdose. I followed orders and nearly killed myself. I was lying on my kitchen floor all alone for 2 days, while the phone rang and people tried to figure out where I was. Eventually the rescue squad pried off my front door and took me to the ER again. I spent 10 days in the hospital, then another 5 weeks in the hospital. I have been psychosis-free since last December, but struggling with clinical depression ever since.

So interestingly, I told my psychiatrist that I was having less trouble with all facets of life about 6 weeks ago. Sure enough, 3 weeks ago I had a whopper of period--my first in 18 months. Now that we look at the entire picture, it is clear that my estrogen levels must have dropped to nothing, the ani-depressants helped a little but not enough, and I only began to feel like my old self when my body spontaneously began to produce estrogen. There has been research into estrogen and ADs as well. The conclusion was that for some women ADs do not work to full capacity without the presence of estrogen.

I would love to hear others' experiences. I do feel so alone having suffered such a trauma. Even now, as I begin to feel a little better, I am trying to deal with the trauma of what I went through. I have felt fragile, off-center, anxious-to-the-max, with very little self-confidence or self esteem. When I left the hospital for the third time last January, I was certain that I would not be able to go to the pharmacy to get my medicine or the grocery store to get basic food items. Or even to my psychiatrist.

But somehow, the ADs gave me enough to get by. Now since the estrogen surge 6 weeks ago, I have cooked, baked. joined Jazzercise, socialized, read (a real WOW for me because I could not concentrate on anything--even mindless TV), called friends, and acted like a semi-normal human being.

I am absolutely convinced that estrogen loss kicked me into psychosis and estrogen production helped to alleviate my depression. The evidence is too strong to have been anything else. And "The Estrogen-Depression Connection" is the cherry on the top of the sundae.

Thanks for reading (or reading again--sorry...) my horror story. Armadillo and ygirl, please be in touch. I suspect we can be great support and comfort to one another.

Many many hugs,
Marcy

My book just arrive and its it wonderful can't wait to read the rest of it. Thanks again!!! Terry

Yes, while my symptoms were different, I went into psychosis for the same reasons. I was convinced that since unbalanced hormones had screwed up my life, that freedom from them was the key. I took no hormones until, hitting rock bottom, it sent me into psychosis. When I went on the Vivelle Dot and effexor, that ended the psychosis. But it took weeks and months for me to gain any confidence. I didn't spend as long in the hospital as you Marcy, but I probably should have.

My prediction--25 years from now, women will never suffer as we have. The estrogen key will be unlocked and our daughters will be delivered from this prison.

ygirl

Malkachava,

I am so sorry about all you have been through. I can't even imagine having the strength to get through it. Thank you for sharing the information about the book. Definitely worth a trip to Books-A-Million to look for it since I feel as though I'm barely hanging on by a thread emotionally. Take care of yourself.

Cindy

Hi Cindy,

Thanks again for your kind words. I hope you were able to find the book. I got it new at Barnes and Noble online for $17, including free shipping. Amazon has it also--used--for about $8.

I am starting to read this book again because it is so comforting to me. I hope you are doing better than when you posted last time. Please take good care of yourself.

Hugs,
Marcy

Wow - this happened to my best friend last year, and I remember telling her that I suspected menopause had kicked her over the edge....but I didn't know there was info out there! I just sent her this info from the thread - thank you! We have been best friends since we were 17 - I'm now 49....and she ended up checking herself into a psych hospital last year after about 6 months of very similar, and increasingly worsening psychosis; paranoia, "people" talking to her, God talking to her; thinking her phone and cable were tapped; it was very distressing to me, and moreso because we are across the country from each other, and I couldn't help her.

She is on anti-psychotics now, and came to vosit me a few months ago. While she is functioning ok, she is definitely not herself, and the meds have her like a slug. I hope I can get her to possibly take another/additional approaches to treatment then just being soma'd.

Dear Gitana,

So good to hear from you! (I also thought my phone was tapped... I could not begin to write down in this forum all the hallucinations I had over almost 7 months!)

There is another book I read that my psychiatrist read also--"Menopause and Madness." Aviano--a Surge Sister--recommended it to me and it was wonderful. It tells the story of another estrogen-deficient woman who had a psychotic episode.

I hope your friend is doing better and will continue to improve. It has taken me a year to feel almost like a version of my old self. Please tell her it is a slow process, sometimes with 2 steps forward and one step back.

Most interesting to me, my psychiatrist told me that a psychotic episode is actually a brain injury. The brain needs to heal in much the same way that it does after one has a stroke.

Thanks so much for posting. I am so sorry someone else had a bad time, but it does help to know I am not a freak of nature.

Early morning smiles,
Marcy

Hi Marcy,

No, you are definitely not alone! I should thank you for posting; and I can't wait to talk to my friend about this. Can I ask if you are also doing anything about getting your hormones balanced, or are you only seeing a psychiatrist? I'm thinking if my friend can take a multi-dimensional approach to this, it may help her improve sooner...

Interesting about an episode being a brain injury; that makes sense, and I would never have thought of that. (I was told that my migraines had probably left scar tissue, and had wondered if some of the 'brain fog/lightheadedness' were the result...but I don't think so after reading these boards.)

I am definitely going to continue to pass this info along to her; I know she thinks she was just off her rocker. We can laugh about her 'episode' now, but I know she isn't completely through it. One of the funnier things was that she was convinced the IRS was tapping her phones (for no reason), and it somehow involved the squirrels that come to her back porch to get fed. Also that she was living in several dimensions simultaneously, in one she was a starship captain. (lol) Which is humurous now because she has always loved science fiction, so we can see what her mind was doing, taking random things during her psychosis and trying to weave them into something that made sense - to her, at that time, anyway. She would take walks for hours at a time, in the rain, in the snow - she didn't care.

I'm glad to be there for her, and your story is tremendously helpful to both of us. ((((hugs!))))

Hi gitana,

Thanks so much for posting again.

I am taking antidepressant medication plus anti-anxiety medication, plus HRT for the past month. Believe me, I thought long and hard about the HRT, but I had absolutely no quality of life. Things began to dramatically change for me once I had estrogen in my system again. According to some studies, antidepressants do not work to full capacity for some women without estrogen supplementation as well.

You state so eloquently what happens during a psychotic episode. Everything seemed to be completely outside of me, yet it was all coming from deep within my brain. I am convinced that past traumas and unresolved issues got all mixed up and came out in the weirdest manner.

Please tell your friend that you met another woman who made it through to the other side. With time and help, she will too.

Smiles (a relatively new thing for me),
Marcy

has any body heard from marcy lately ? hope shes doing fine ?

Last time I talked to her, things were going fairly well for her. She was back at work, had a new man in her life and was feeling good. She moved her parents to her city and was having a little bit of a time caring for them, but was happy. This was a few months back mind you. I hope all is well with her also, and I miss her.