Hello everyone,

Today's Reno Gazette announced the verdict against Wyeth Pharmaceuticals in the case of 3 local women who developed breast cancer after using Prempro and Premarin.

"A Washoe County jury has ordered pharmaceutical giant Wyeth to pay more than $43 million each to three Northern Nevada women who claimed in a lawsuit the company's hormone-replacement drugs caused their breast cancer.

The jury said Premarin, an estrogen replacement, and Prempro, a combination of estrogen and progestin, were defective products and found Wyeth was negligent in producing, marketing and selling the drugs.

The company "concealed a material fact about the safety of the product," the jury said." Reno Gazette Journal

For full transcript and to post comments to the newspaper go to

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?.../710110343/1002

Sierra

Sorry, but for some reason the above link to the news article is not posting correctly so I'll try it again.

Sierra


http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?.../710110343/1002

Sierra, thank you for this information. I'm going to forward this link.

Not to defend the drug company, but everything has risks that you take. Just listen to all the tv commercials where they are pushing a drug and then spend the next 5 minutes telling you all it does to you. Anything that messes around with hormones has a higher risk. People don't want to know about all the risks because they feel so lousy they just want relief. I've had friends say that to me that are on HRT. I had one gyno pushing something from another company on me that was supposed to be safer than the natural HRT bioidentical stuff. Problem was, after reading both package inserts they had the same dangers. People will take it irregardless of the warnings and studies. If it doesn't work perfectly and something happens they will sue. It's the way things are. If the person dies the family will sue. Personally I never got the "blood money" thing but that's just me. Jurors thrive on these kinds of cases because it is their chance to get back at corporate America who has ruined the country sending jobs overseas, etc. which is true. We all have the option to take risks in life, it's whether we choose to or not. Do you smoke, drink, use drugs, don't practice safe sex, get tattoos, go on risky amusement park rides, have a drink and drive, take any medication whether OTC or RX, drink hot coffee, eat too much fast food? I could go on and on but the point I'm making is we all take some kind of risks and it's up to us to take responsibility for it.

I asked my doctor about the HRT risks and didn't like what I heard. I moved on. Do I suffer a lot? Yes...could I have a better quality of life if I took HRT? Maybe, but would I worry about the blood clots, heart disease, cancer, etc and would it be worth if for me? I'd worry.

A lot of people die needlessly, but a lot of people die doing something stupid that carries a very high risk such as going on risky rides, rock climbing, skiing, hiking and losing your way and getting frozen to death, doing bundgie jumping, riding racing cars, you name it. People like to push the envelope, the only difference here is doing these risks there's no corporate America to sue.

I just know I'm gonna get pounded on this one but hey, I tell it like it is.

My big question regarding the Prempro/Premarin litigation going on around the country was, are all HRT treatments equal?

According to everything I've read, Prempro and Premarin, being made from pregnant horse urine doesn't compare to bioidentical hormones such as Vivelle, Estrace, etc which are made from soy and/or yam. The latter is chemically structured in a way as to be identical to a woman's natural 17 beta Estradiol which is the primary estrogen produced by the ovary before menopause. The former is a different type of estrogen called Estrone, which is one of the 3 types of estrogens: Estrone, Estadiol, and Estriol produced by the ovaries. To quote Dr. Elizabeth Vliet in "Screaming To Be Heard", "Estrone is the form of estrogen that many researchers think may be related to the higher risk of endometrial and breast cancer in older women who are obese."

Much of the media hype regarding recent studies which had frightened so many women away from HRT (myself included) did not present all of the facts regarding these studies. For more information the book mentioned above goes into great detail. The majority of women in the studies used Prempro and Premarin.

I had previously sworn that I would never use HRT but have changed my mind after looking further into it. Yes, the label on my bioidentical Vivelle patch carries all the same warnings. And I also realize that everything in life carries risk. However, I have to seriously consider the possibility that perhaps the risk might not be as great as the warning on the label indicates. They have to cover themselves. Not providing an accurate disclaimer is primarily what the current lawsuit against Wyeth was all about. There are many other factors that also come into play in risk assessment, such as the use of alcohol while taking estrogens, family history, etc.

I know that many doctors have stopped prescribing Prempro and Premarin in favor of bioidentical hormones for these very reasons. The BHRT's seem to be more effective at symptom relief for many women and so far appear to hold less risk. Also the delivery stystem plays an important part in reducing the risk factor. The patch and creams don't have to make the first pass through the liver, thus changing the chemical structure. Additionally, it appears that there may be less risk for gallstones when delivered in this fashion.

I am glad that I have chosen to go with the BHRT because I feel sooooo much better. However, I did not come to that decision lightly. My mother is 82 and took Permarin for years with no problems. My mother-in-law took Prempro until she died of uterine cancer at age 82. I don't wish to take those forms of HRT.

I am so thankful for this website as it has provided a wealth of information and forum for expression for all of us women who love life and are trying to make the best of it.

Sierra

cyberlayde,
I agree with everything you said. I feel the same way, it is all about choice. It is always personal choice, and when it comes to HRT, it is still hard to tell which one is safer and it depends on personal status, family history, life style, etc. I understand that many women simply can't and won;t deal with symptoms, I suffer myself, but after reading pretty much every thing and weighing my risk and benefits, I decided to do without HRT.
Young women never question hormonal contraceptives, many girls start as early as 14-16 yo and continue for decades. This alone could be a good ground for breast cancer later in life, but no one sued BCP manufacturer's even side effects are threatening. I did not yet see one gyno who would suggest HRT as a solution to my endless complains of menopausal symptoms, they all warn me against the risk and remind it is short term solution. I am not defending pharmaceutical companies, but at the end, it is always personal choice. Again, quality of life is very important, but I have tried BHRT and it made me feel much worse than I did before that, but I never tried synthetic hormones. I doubt any study will provide clear results supporting either decision.
JMO

I agree with you. I went through the Bellevue Pharmacy saliva tests, thank goodness my insurance picked up the cost as it was very expensive. I had the consultation and did all that was required. I got to the point about getting the BHRT script and asked one of the doctors on this website about the risks. When he wrote back it has the same risks as the HRT I was like, so what's the point? I didn't bother to go any further since both are very risky. I think a lot of women don't know there really is no difference between the two when it comes down to the risks.

I was on Prempro and I couldn't tell if it made me feel any better. My days are so messed up...one day is good, the next day is bad. I decided to stop taking it because of the risk of blood clots and increased risk of breast cancer. And to be honest, I don't know if I'm estrogen deficient or estrogen dominant. I've taken the quizzes and can answer 'yes' to the questions for both conditions! I've had blood tests and some times they show normal hormonal levels...other times they're completely out of whack.

Sigh. It's so hard to know what to do. My mother took HRT for 20 years after her hysterectomy in her forties and she is fine. I keep thinking...way back when, women just went through 'the change' and didn't take anything! So did nature 'intend' for woman to take supplemental hormones? Then again, I just started reading The Wisdom of Menopause, in which Dr. Northrup reminds us that, sadly, it wasn't too long ago that most women died before going through menopause.

I literally have no idea and no opinion when it comes to the subject of supplemental hormones. I'm just too confused. I'll really enjoy reading what others have to say, though. Iradan, you are very knowledgable about human physiology and drugs, so I pay extra attention to what you are doing...

Robin,
thanks for kind words, but I am just as confused as you are, LOL. My blood test is "normal" and symptoms according to the chart are neither one, I simply think my hormones flux daily, so it is estrogen dominant and estrogen deficient within 1 hour, LOL.

The more I read into it, the less assertive I become. At one point I thought BHRT is answer to all my questions, but 3 months did not solve any problems, and messed me up even further. I am sure HRT helps with hot flashes and night sweats, it is clear that low estrogen is to blame, but does it help with anxiety, mood swings, etc - I guess not, since it did not help me. Combo pill now is being blamed for heart attack and stroke, breast cancer, but it implies that progesterone in the pill should be blamed for all these ailments, not estrogen. My question is then, how come almost all drs now "jumped" on natural progesterone wagon if progesterone in all forms has similar negative effect on many women, and it is 2nd part of the cycle that always made me feel depressed, moody, fatigues, sleepy, bloated, gives me chest pain, raises my blood sugar, etc. so how is it progesterone is so great if it causes all this nasty symptoms.
The only one action sof progesterone o far is to protect endometrium, this is where I think all benefits of progesterone end. OTOH, estrogen seems to be vital, but it is not an option for many women either.

I don't know answer to whether women suppose to have same level of hormones at 50 as they had at 20 and for the rest of our lives, nor I am 100% agree that we suppose to die as soon as our reproductive function seize. I am not sure that all women used to die right after menopause, many made it to a very old and ripe age and survived without hormones, think old mades and nuns but I am sure they used some natural (herbal) remedies, Valerian is one of them, to calm nerves. Women in different countries uses herbs, soy, fresh fruits and vegetables, exercise, every little thing helps.

I doubt any dr. know how safe are HRT, but I keep reading that BHRT pose the same risk as conventional HRT on many conventional websites that does not sell or promote BHRT, and this is what I believe is 100% true!

The rest, not clear and it is all about personal choice. I am sure I would look younger, have smoother skin, less muscle/joint aches, etc. if I take estrogen alone, but this means I have to get rid of my uterus first, but I don't think it worth it.
Even if I get hysterectomy, I still have other organs HRT may impact, so I am not rushing to try HRT again. It is very tempting to get my old self back, but I am sure that HRT is not a solution to all my problems and changes I see in my personality and physique doubtfully will magically "cured" by HRT.
I see menopause as natural process, as a part of getting older. There are remedies that help with symptoms, but there is no panacea from the process itself, with or without hormones. But this is just me, and never say never, so I may change my opinion as I process further into menopause.
One thing I won't do, is blame pharmaceutical companies, life is all about personal choices. OTC NSAID killed more ppl in general, that all Rx together.
JMO
Best,
I.

Hi JMO and everyone else,

I really enjoy hearing everyone's thoughts about the whole issue of HRT's. Lord knows how much we all need relief! ha! I'm a pilgrim on the same journey through hormone "heck" just like everyone else here. My initial post re: the Wyeth lawsuit was not intended to push any particular agenda, but only as a matter of interest. I live here in the Reno area where the trial is taking place so I've been inundated daily with all the news about it.

I also realize that everyone is different and what is a blessing for one can be a curse for the other. I've just been wrestling myself with the whole issue of whether or not BHRT's are any safer than Prempro/Premarin. From what I can tell, progesterone seems to cause a lot of problems for some people and isn't even needed if there is no uterus. I'm fortunate that I don't have a uterus so that's not an issue for me. In the past I did a try natural non prescription progesterone cream though hoping it would help with anxiety. But it was pretty much a waste of money. The Vivelle has definitely helped my overall mood besides hot flashes. But then again, I'm older (56), and have a history of other health problems too.

The following link seemed to answer some of those questions regarding those warnings that appear on ALL HRT prescriptions. Even my own internist doc, who is awesome, has expressed some confusion about the studies that were done and the subsequent warnings. Anyway, for what it's worth, the author is in private practice and not affiliated with any pharmaceutical or other sales agenda (Like you, that is always a big red flag for me too!)

http://herplace.com/news/pressprelease.pdf

Sierra

Iradan: Why did you say that if you were going to take estrogen, you would have to have your uterus removed first?

I can't tolerate progesterone in any form existing, so I will end up with endometrial cancer. So I have decided not to take any hormones for now.
Cheers,
I.

From today's news:


NEW YORK (Reuters) - A judge in Minnesota has dismissed a product liability lawsuit against Wyeth, granting the drugmaker's motion for summary judgment in a case in which a woman blamed the company's hormone replacement therapy for her breast cancer, Wyeth said on Tuesday.

In dismissing the case that had been scheduled to go to trial in January, Judge George McGunnigle of the Hennepin County District Court in Minneapolis found that the plaintiff, Patricia Zandi, had not offered any scientifically valid evidence to support her claim that she had developed breast cancer as a result using Wyeth's Premarin and Prempro.

Wyeth is facing more than 5,000 lawsuits from those who believe they were harmed by the hormone replacement drugs, which have been used by millions of women to control the effects of menopause.

[quote name='RoundRobin' date='Oct 16 2007, 01:41 PM' post='191450']
IThen again, I just started reading The Wisdom of Menopause, in which Dr. Northrup reminds us that, sadly, it wasn't too long ago that most women died before going through menopause.
/quote]

It depends on the century she's talking about. When women were sent to hospitals in the 1800's to have babies before they knew about germs, that was a common cause of premature death. But once that was figured out, the main reason the life expectancy was low in, for example, 1900, was due to the fact that one in every four children died in infancy or childhood, which brought the average life expectancy way down. There wasn't anything about being in your 40's that killed you. But it makes for sensational reading.

People died from all sorts of causes at any age over the last two hundred years, but if you got past the age of 10 in even the later 1800's, you had a fair chance of reaching your 70's. I figured since she said it wasn't "too long ago," I wouldn't go back to pre-industrial times.