Summary of symptoms prior to using Pro-Gest:

- Palpitations, fitful sleep, and mood disturbances (esp rage) since 2000, continuing into 2007
- Progressively worsening rosacea and dry eyes since 2000, continuing into 2007
- Irregular periods started early 2006, cycle lengths changed from 30-31 days to 14-65 days (missed period twice)
- Hot flashes for 9 days in Jan 2007
- Hormone tests (blood and saliva) revealed high-normal estrogen and sub-normal progesterone
- Began self-medication with Pro-Gest cream Mar 2007, standard dose (20mg/day split into morning and evening applications)

(Note: apparently hot flashes are not necessarily caused by low estrogen !)

Summary of symptoms since using Pro-Gest:

- Near-regular periods, cycle lengths are now 30-40 days, pecifically: 36, 40, 31, 35, 40, 30)
- No hot flashes, a few minor warming spells overnight (nowhere near a flash !)
- Far fewer episodes of palpitations and mood disturbances, greatly improved sleep
- Significantly fewer rosacea flare-ups, improved eye lubrication (I think these two are tied together)

Adverse effects so far:

- only during the first few cycles of use, excessive sleepiness, some palpitations for the first hour or two after applying cream
- during the first 3-4 cycles, worsening of acne breakouts (bigger cysts, but not more of them)
- intermittent spotting for a few days pre- or post- period for some cycles
- for the 40 day cycles, some phantom cramps around days 30-31

My rating of Pro-Gest cream on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being best: 9 !! It's inexpensive, easy to use, and here in the US you don't need a prescription. I would give it a 10 if it could make my cycle lengths 30-31 days all of the time. :-)

Can I attribute all of my improvement to Pro-Gest ? I can't be sure, but it's looking like the stuff truly is helping. I suspect that my adverse reactions were due to my body re-adjusting to higher levels of progesterone. I had probably been low on P for years and had to get used to it again.

Pro-Gest might not help everyone, but it's definitely worth giving it a try if you are confirmed to be low on progesterone. I suspect it works best for women whose hormonal balance is like mine, high E and low P.

I was interested in your post because I started using the Pro-Gest in June of this year. I used it for 14 days in June and it seemed to work okay. Then I didn't get a period in July so wasn't sure when to use it. I picked a day and used it again for 14 days, but no period after that so I stopped and waited for a period. I got one after like 50 days and then decided to use the cream for 21 days since on the directions it says to use it that way if your perimenopausal and irregular.

I stopped last week on the 21st day and today still no period after 7 days. Now I'm not sure when to take it again. Also, one of my main problems is bad back ache and muscle spasms. I have a bulging disc but I don't believe all the pain can be from that as I've had the problem for awhile and my back didn't bother me this much. I was wondering if the cream is making muscle aches worse??? My mood seemed better, but in the last two days (not on cream) I am getting a little bad again. I just started taking SAM-E because it says its very good for joint pain and mood issues.

I want to continue the cream but was wondering if you experienced any muscle aches? I don't know what my progesterone level is but since I'm skipping cycles and have only one ovary now for two years, I figured it made sense to try the cream.

HI corky

I'm using a different progesterone cream (Pro Juven) which is stronger (3%) and I had your problem of not knowing when to stop and re-start it. When the doc first prescribed it, I hadn't had any periods for months, so started using the cream on the post-menopausal pattern of 21 days on the cream with a seven day break. However after some months of using the cream, I had a couple of periods, eleven weeks apart. I rang the doc when the first period started and she told me that if I start a period to stop using the cream for seven days and then resume for 21 days. If during the time when I'm using the cream I start another period, then stop using the cream again for seven days and then resume.

Well this is what I did when my two periods started and I've been fine. Since August I haven't had another period and don't feel as though one's approaching either so this last month I've used the cream for 21 days and am just coming up for my seven day break.

When I first started using the cream I had spotting (not a full period). This could also have been due to the fact that I stopped taking conventional HRT abruptly at that time so I'm not entirely sure it was due to starting the cream. The first time I experienced spotting, my doc advised me to stop the cream for a few days and then restart. When I first started using the cream I had breaks of only 4 or 5 days, now I have breaks of seven days. This was because I was experiencing severe mood symptoms at that time, having abruptly stopped conventional HRT, and stopping the cream seemed to make things worse. I'm fine now, don't have mood symptoms at all and feel great moodwise even during the seven day break.

On subsequent occasions when I had spotting however, the doc told me to continue with the cream and stick to the 21 days on 7 days off pattern. I think this was because the spotting was very random and frequent in the early days so if I stopped the cream every time I had a show of blood, I would be using the cream very erratically. Now I don't have spotting at all.

As for joint pains. I do get joint pains in the backs of my hands upon waking, although this eases up quite soon in the day. This started almost immediately I stopped conventional HRT. I have to say, I'd thought it was as a result of the reduced oestrogen rather than the progesterone cream (I'm not supplementing with oestrogen) but who knows. There have been periods where this joint pain has alleviated or where I haven't suffered it, but as I say, I unexpectedly had two periods, so obviously had a couple of oestrogen surges - so possibly the alleviation of the joint pain was related to that.

Hi Corky,

I can imagine how tough it is to use ProGest when you are having highly irregular periods. Did your irregular periods start when your ovary was removed ? Do you know where your hormone levels are at ? I figured that with high E and low P I was probably having anovulatory cycles. If I had low E too I'm not sure the Pro-Gest would be as helpful for regulating cycles, but there would still be other benefits. Honestly, I have slept better since using Pro-Gest than at any other time since 2000. I also feel a lot calmer, which could be a direct result of getting more sleep ! :-)

With your highly irregular cycles you could impose cycles by using Pro-Gest very regularly, like every 28 days use it on days 14-28 or whatever your favorite numbers are, and then if you get a period just shift your imposed cycle.

I have seen evidence (discharge) that I am ovulating again, and when I see it I get a period almost dead-on 14 days later, just like the textbooks say. One time I ovulated when I was close to completing 14 days of Pro-Gest use, I just had a day or two more to go so I completed the Pro-Gest and then had a period like 12 days later, which created a 40-day cycle. Maybe if you are still ovulating you can use that as a clue in your Pro-Gest use., that created a 40 day cycle. I can tell I ovulated a couple of days ago, so I'm expecting a 30-31 day cycle this time. I debated whether or not to use Pro-Gest at all when I see I've ovulated, but I've decided to go ahead and do it though I'll probably stop on day 26 instead of 28.

Btw, I did not experience any muscle aches.

I replied to Corky's post before I read Interactive's ... I see I'm in agreement with Interactive, use the Pro-Gest regularly and shift when you get a period. I know at some point my E will drop and I will be faced with this situation, it's good to have a plan ! :-)

Well today I'm at 7 days w/o period after 21 days on Pro-Gest, so I am going to start it again once in the am, and again at night. I am getting cramping, and irritability so it feels like its coming but maybe not. After I lost my ovary I was still fairly regular but every few months a period would disappear. In the last year my period is disappearing more that is why I figured to start Progesterone cream. I read all the books and they seem to recommend Progesterone first when cycles start going awry. I use like a small pea size amount twice a day.

I was just wondering about having more muscle aches in my back, neck and shoulder lately while on the cream. Another poster told me she was on the cream for 6 months and suffered worse aches/pains and its taken her body one year to get all the cream out of her system.

I'll stick with it another month and see how I feel.

Thanks for the info girls.

corky

this is a really good thread with some good information.

I too am irregular and was wondering how to stop the progest cream. A lot of times, I will go on my 7 day break and no period and then continue and then get my period 2 weeks later. Sometimes, I am like clocke work and get it right when my break is due.

I too have found the cream has really taken away lots of the symptoms. Mostly the horrible migraines I was getting.

I haven't experienced any aches and pains due to the cream either.

Mopsy

Sandra, thank you for posting this for us to see. I am E dominant or E empty, so am unsure whether to try the Progesterone, but would love to, just to help my sleep and even out irregular cycles. But I wonder if when I am E empty whether it will make me feel worse, and that worries me.

I also read on one site, that some docs recommend Progesterone for life for all women, stating that it is the 'happy hormone', the one the keeps us sleeping, less anxious, shiny hair, and the list goes on. What are your thoughts on how long to take it? Would you take it for life in small doses?

Thank you again for sharing,
Viktoria

I asked my doc how long I could use the progesterone cream for and she said "As long as you need it". She herself takes oral progesterone and looks to be in her Sixties. She's the picture of post menopausal zest, very energetic and intellectually sharp. She doesn't supplement with Estrogen.

I'm feeling very well on the progesterone cream at the moment, so intend to carry on.

I'm not sure what you mean by "E empty" Flushing Lady. I haven't heard that expression before. We continue to produce some estrogen, even after menopause.

I am thinking of taking it for as long as I need to too. I heard it really helps us feel younger and I noticed one thing my hair is thicker. It was thinner at one point in my life but after being on progest for a few years, I have noticed that I have thicker hair. It does help with sleep, anxiety and just feeling better. I know it doesn't work for everyone as we are all different.

Mopsy

Yes my hair's thick and in good condition too Mopsy. I don't know if it's due to the cream. You say you've been on Pro Gest for a few years. And you've done well on the cream all that time? That's encouraging. I've only been using it for about ten and a half months and was hope it continues to work well indefinitely!

Yes, I started using it when I just turned 45 and now I am 47. I know my hair is thicker because of the cream because before that, it was thinning out. I too am hoping it keeps up but i have heard that sometimes your hormones fluctuate and you end up needing a combo. At this point, i am feeling pretty good and hope it just stays this way. Crossing fingers and toes anyway. )

Mopsy

I use progest and think it might have helped with some flashing. Now I think I may need something stronger but I do believe it stopped some hot flashes early on. I went for quite a while without getting any then they started up again. I have low P.

Hi Interactive, by E Empty, it's my own terminology for meaning about as low in estradiol as I can go, but still having a few spotting periods. I take nothing for my Peri at all, but am really questioning the need for some progesterone.

Viktoria

I am now in my 9th month of Pro-Gest use. To re-cap and update my cycle lengths since starting to use Pro-Gest: 36, 40, 31, 35, 40, 30, 31, 29, 33. It's truly amazing.

In addition to regulating my cycles, I'm wondering if it's bolstered my immune system. For the past 5 years I picked up every illness around me and I would have a cold or sore throat or worse every 2-3 months. It didn't matter how much I tried to protect myself, staying away from people who are sick, washing my hands frequently, not wiping nose or eyes with anything but a fresh kleenex, using paper towels or sleeves to pull on door handles ... if someone sneezed 100 feet away from me, I'd be sick 2 days later. So it's very interesting that in the past 9 months I have not been sick, despite people around me being sick. Several times I felt like I was coming down with some viral illness, sneezing a few times, feeling like my nose was getting stuffed up, feeling like my throat was getting dried out ... and then after a few days I was better, like my body managed to fight off the illness. Nothing else in my life has changed, just the Pro-Gest. Is it possible Pro-Gest is responsible ?????? Is low P bad for the immune system ????

I think my estrogen took a dip roughly a week ago. I had mild flushes, not full blown hot flashes like I had in January, but definitely abormal warming. It makes me wonder how much longer I've got til the E goes low.

Hi Sandra,

One question, is your progesterone the OTC one? I have the Progesterall OTC, but am not sure I should take it as my E is less than 22? whatever they measure it in nm's. I would love to start putting it on, but am concerned about it. I am amazed at the results you are having with it, and am happy it is seeming to even out your cycle, and help with general health.

Does it affect your actual menstrual bleeding? More or less pain? Or none?

I take that back, it was more than one question

I think the warmth you are getting is a low E dip, and that is how low E feels early in the picture.

Thank you for updating, and I hope you keep doing this as it helps some of us see what Progest can do.

Viktoria

I feel really fortunate that this stuff is working for me. I know it doesn't work for everyone.

I'm using the OTC Pro-Gest brand single use packets, paraben-free.

My E was at the high end of the normal range when tested early this year. Not sure where it is right now, I suspect it's lower. I really should test again ! My periods are a little lighter now than they used to be, instead of day 1 being heavy it is now medium, and I'm done on day 4 instead of day 5. I still have cramps on day 1, severe enough to require ibuprofen. It's always been that way for me. Several cycles I've had the phantom cramps thing, mild cramps that come and go for several days but no period, and then the period occurs a few days later.

Because I feel I'm getting other benefits from Pro-Gest, unless I see/hear info that causes me to change my mind or I start having adverse reactions, I will continue using Pro-Gest or some other form of progesterone well past menopause whether or not I am supplementing with estrogen.

I had another warm spell walking to work today. Only 41 degrees out and I had a 20 minute walk, I wanted to remove my jacket. :-) It wasn't a full blown hot flash though, I remember what those feel like ! I'm on day 3 of a period so my E should be at a low point right now. I really should do a saliva test tomorrow or Friday morning to try to capture the value!

Oh, not sure if this is a factor in my success with Pro-Gest, but I started using it within a year of having irregular cycles, though I'm convinced now I've been peri for 5 years.

Thank you for the informative reply, Sandra.

The one I have is paraben free as well, so I am hoping it will be as good. Like you, I was E Dominant for a very long time, but I know I no longer am, and my progesterone is very low. I guess I am getting near the end of periods.

Like you, I had part decided that if my body likes progesterone then I will use it well into post meno. It has so many good effects going for it, and perhaps the dosage might have to be lower, I would still like to take it to balance out the post meno estriol that we make, as we make NO progesterone to oppose that one.

I used to get the warm spells, but now I get some free days with only warming, or I am thrown from the heat of coals and next can be in Alaska type of feeling, so I am late Peri now, and I sure feel it. But I'm accepting most of this now, and so I will look forward to starting my progest after the next period.....and if none comes, I shall "pick a day".

I do wonder about our Uterine lining in Post meno..........I suppose we may need to cut back on the Progesterone now and then, or at least have an US to check the lining. It is certainly a tricky time of life.

Thank you again for posting back,
Viktoria

This current period is turning out to be one of my lightest ever. On day 3 I was able to go without a tampon overnight and much of the next day. My E must be dropping, this correlates with my increased warm spells. I forgot to do my saliva test yesterday, dang it ! It needs to be mailed ASAP and can't do it on Monday, so I'll have to try to do it on Tuesday. I do want to capture my low E value.

I'm switching health plans and will get a new gynecologist. I left the other one anyway, she couldn't listen and couldn't manage her appointments so in disgust I requested all of my records and never went back. Tell me how bad this is, damned managed health care ... if I ask for a uterine sonogram to determine the lining depth I'm sure I won't get it, so I'm going to research symptoms of a too thick lining during peri or full meno and then report those symptoms ! I don't know why it should be so difficult to get preventative care, a little bit spent now could spare them a lot of cost later. I just want to make sure the lining isn't too thick. I'm menstruating, but after E dominance for who knows how many years (possibly 5 if not more), was I able to shed it properly ? I want to know.

This IS a tricky time of life. I'm so thankful for the internet, what we all share with each other and the info posted in other parts of this web site and others is invaluable to me. When I had those hot flashes in January I was freaked out ! When I sought help from my GP and gynecologist, the GP offered birth control pills and the gynecologist mistook my complaint of peri symptoms to be a complaint that I was menopausal, and then she was shocked to see my E so high and she offered nothing but a prediction that I would have a period again. I'm an educated patient, why is this so difficult ? (sigh)

Hi Sandra,

Just reading info on this discussion, and it sounds like we are running into the same gynecology help! My NP was so rushed, dismissive, only wanted me on Birth Control to alleviate my symptoms, didn't want to discuss lifestyle or testing. I did find that I have a small ovarian cyst, after complaining several times about pain.
I am only 38 and I wanted to know if my symptoms were PMS, PMDD, or Perimenopause. The NP said that it didnt' matter what it was (!), that we just needed to medicate me to get rid of symptoms. ARGH!!

I am going to talk to a new doc about getting tests. I did get an Estrogen test, was sort of normal. I can't believe that these people would rather have us come back 10 times than give us some time to inform us and allow us to help ourselves. I am educated, too and this is such a bunch of nonsense. I am going to do a full post, need some ideas from the ladies here!

By the way, to get the correct reading on the hormone levels, which times of the cycle do they need to be collected? I assume that the random test I had for the E. wasn't even the proper time. Sheesh... ;-)

Clarissa K.

Hi there ladies,

Thanks for this post Sandra, for your update. I hope this is a good place to post my issue with my Perimenopause, though I may put it somewhere else, too!

I am 38, have been having Peri symptoms for a few years now (didn't know what they were), and have recently gone through a lot of stress so the symptoms got worse. I'm seeing new doctors, having just moved, so its been frustrating. Dr's have wanted me on anti-anxiety/anti-depressants/birth control, but I am not suree about taking the pills, as I am quite sensitive to these things.

My symptoms:

Anxiety (worse with PMS)
Low Mood (only around period and jsut after)
Cramps (during period, some phantom cramps off and on)
Headaches (bad during PMS)
Night Sweats (bad during PMS and Period)
Insomnia (mostly when I have night sweats)
Palpitations (maybe worse during PMS, not bad lately)

Just got prescribed Cryselle Birth Control Pills, and started them yesterday when period started. I woke up with HORRIFIC cramps last night and after taking 4 Ibuprofen, which barely helped, I started reading about the Progesterone Cream treatment. I bought some a month ago, but thought that it made me dizzy so I stopped using it. I have a few other reasons that could make me dizzy, so I shouldn't have blamed that. Anyway, this morning I used some ProGest to get rid of the Cramps and it worked!! I did also feel waves of relaxation come over me and it was a little strange, but nice. I am not used to feeling relaxed!

I am now thinking that I should just not take any more BCPills, I only took the one, have the feeling that it isn't going to help me. I've had negative side effects with most BC in the past. I am probably going to stick with the Pro Gest. I am a little bit desperate, as my marriage has suffered a bit lately with all of my health issues and my mood swings. I see a therapist and she doesn't think I am depressed, just emotional and hormonal.

Any advice from anyone would be lovely!
Clarissa K.

I have had good luck with progest. I started taking it to help my monthly migraines. I have found it helps with lots of other symptoms too. I know what you mean about the feeling of calm. It is nice rather than the anxietyt that was there before.

Mopsy

To capture your low E and P, the best day to test is day 3 (day 1 being the start of your period). To capture the E and P highs, try testing around day 22.

I forgot to do my saliva test to capture my E low. :-/ Now it's too late, I'll have to wait til the next period. I think the next period is going to come quite a bit early, on day 7 I think I ovulated, or was very close to ovulating, so I'm expecting a period around day 23 instead of 30. I'm thinking my peri days are soon to be done and I will be fully menopausal soon. The symptoms of low (or lower) E and premature ovulation correlate, I think, with FSH as the culprit. I'm thinking the low(er) E allowed the FSH to rise or spike and trigger ovulation. I'm expecting more frequent and lighter periods unless my E can rebound.

It's going to be tricky to figure out how to use the ProGest, I would normally start it on day 13 or 14, but if I really did ovulate a week early then I might not want to use it, or I might want to use it for only a week.

Another update ...

I did a saliva test and both E and P are well in the normal range, this after having had sub-normal P and sky high E. But now my cortisol is even lower than before, was sub-normal a year ago and is even worse now. I think I will see my GP and ask for help, I am very tired and I read that this is a symptom of low cortisol. I'm craving sugar like a mad woman too. I have no history of diabetes.

I'm having shorter cycles .. 20, 33, and 14 days. I think I ovulated today, if true I should have close to a 30 day cycle this time. Are shorter cycles an indication that you are getting closer to menopause ?

I still use P, but when I had the 20 day cycle I cut it short and when I had the 14 day cycle I didn't use it at all. Is it a coincidence that I am having more intense and frequent warm spells now ? These are not full-on hot flashes, I just get overly warm when stressed or in the middle of the night, I barely break a sweat if I sweat at all.

I'm still sleeping well, I can usually sleep 7-8 hours with maybe one or two brief wakeups in the middle of the night. Some nights I sleep badly but those nights are not common, maybe 1 in 1 or 2 weeks.

I still have not gotten sick ! I used to get sick every 2 or 3 months, every time someone around me was sick I would get it. I have not been sick since starting progesterone almost year ago despite lots of people around me getting sick.

My sister who is 3 years older and menopausal didn't want to use hormones but since hearing about my good sleep and lack of illness now wants to try progesterone. I'm urging her to test first. I also bought a couple of books and had them shipped to her house. She is very busy with career and family and doesn't have time to read this web site or do lots of research like I did. So I'm trying to fast-track her. :-)

I wanted to post another update ...

The biggest benefit I can attribute to my progesterone supplementation is my bolstered immune system. Since 2002 I was getting sick every couple of months, not just sniffles or a few sneezes but full-blown illnesses, some of them quite nasty. My last illness before starting to use progesterone was Jan 2007 ... and I was not ill again until June 2008 when I was hit with mycoplasma pneumonia. After being sick so often, while using progesterone cream I was able to go 16 months between illnesses ! I did a bit of research on the 'net and found research linking immune system health with progesterone.

My E is clearly dropping though, I am getting more frequent hot flashes, my periods are lighter and shorter and I've skipped two in the past 5 months. I will continue to use the progesterone cream even if I'm not menstruating, sooner or later I will begin supplementing estrogen too.

I am still sleeping very well. I just went through some major personal tasks, including a mortgage refinancing, and didn't sleep so well when I had too much on my mind, but otherwise I can easily get 7 and even 8 hours of near solid sleep. Usually the only thing that wakes me in the middle of the night are these blasted hot flashes, when they subside I am quick to fall asleep again. This is way different than what I experienced before I started using progesterone, I had really bad insomnia then, many times waking in the middle of the night and staying awake for hours. And even when severely short on sleep I would still have trouble falling asleep the next night. No more of that. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but I do believe my good sleep is due to progesterone.

Another update ...

I was slacking on using the progesterone because in the last several months it appeared (via texture of discharge) that I had ovulated, but I skipped 2 periods and my last period was very light. And now I'm experiencing symptoms consistent with ovarian cysts. :-/ I have an appt to see the GYN in 8 days. I wish the appt were this week ! I'm having waves of nausea and twinges of pain and a bloated feeling. My estradiol reading was a rather massive 529, I have to see the actual paperwork to verify the units ... if pg/mL, then I am super high estradiol, and what I've read is that this can be a symptom of cysts. I read that progesterone can help resolve the cysts and even prevent new ones from forming, though I'm not sure that the OTC progesterone cream applied to the skin can have the proper effect.

I think I am in the last phase of peri. I'll bet this year is my last year of periods. I'm actually looking forward to meno now, because I plan to supplement and at least I'll have better control of my E. Right now it's on an extreme roller coaster and it's testing my patience !! I have moments of peace interrupted by moments of severe emotional reaction .. I stepped on the scale yesterday morning and didn't like the number and broke out into a full-on cry !!! It was lucid too, I recognized that I was over-reacting and started digging backward in time for more stuff to be upset about to justify that level of crying, and eventually I accepted that it's my hormones jerking me around and I settled down.